>> From the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C. ^M00:00:07 ^M00:00:22 >> Daniel Sheehy: Thank so much, Gabriel and everyone else and Melodias Borinqueñas for a beautiful concert. You guys are clearly way up there in terms of skill level and in terms of taste, what you might call or something. Just beauty of every sort in your performance. >> Daniel Muñoz: Thanks so much. >> Daniel Sheehy: Thanks so much for that. Thanks for working for 25 years to -- just to come here to the Library of Congress, this concert today. >> Gabriel Muñoz: I think I can die in peace after this. >> Daniel Sheehy: There you go. Beautiful, but don't do it. So can we start with who is Gabriel Muñoz? Who is that person? If you were somebody else and they asked you who Gabriel Muñoz was, what would you say? >> Gabriel Muñoz: It's such a complex question, but as some of you already know, I was born in Hatillo [spelling?], Puerto Rico. I guess to find a better life, my parents moved to New Jersey, where I was raised. The most difficult question I always have to answer is how I ended up playing this instrument and furthermore having a passion and love for it? I have no clue. I'll be honest with you. Being raised over here since the age of two, it still baffles me how I ended up doing this. I can, however, say that it was -- basically began with watching someone play at the age of 14, and I've never seen this instrument in front of me physically, only on old cassettes or such that my father would play the old jíbero music, and it kind of fascinated me, but I didn't understand what it was. Once I saw it, it enchanted me instantly. I loved the whole chorus effect, natural chorus effect that the instrument had and how it portrayed itself. It just stood out on its own, and I felt like I really -- I really want to do that. >> Daniel Sheehy: Well we're all thankful that you decided that. That was a good moment for us. You go back to Hatillo [spelling] at all? >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah. At the age of ten, my Dad started taking me back so that I would know my family, my grandmother and grandfather on his side and such, and every so often, every couple of years, I continued going back until I was old enough to travel on my own, and to this day, I still go. Now, I go -- it's at the point where I go, and it's just meeting with different cuartristas and playing and playing and playing. When I get the chance, I'll see the family, but now it's just I'm always playing now. So -- but yeah, it's always fun to go back and recharge my cultural batteries and musical batteries and meet up with a lot of great musicians over there. >> Daniel Sheehy: Let me ask you. Who is on those cassettes that your father played? Do you know at this point in time? Who were your -- who would you go back and meet with? Where did you get this -- where do you recharge your batteries, with whom? >> Gabriel Muñoz: I remember my father playing a lot of cassettes from the late great cuatro player Maso Rivera, which is one of the biggest pioneers on the real typical folklore music on the cuatro. It had such -- I guess I would interpret it as some type of jíbero-funk type feel with it that really brought out the pride of the music in itself, and that's someone that I never had the opportunity to meet before he passed away but till this day one of the biggest inspirations on -- the whole reason for me really wanting to push out on the culture with the music was Maso Rivera. >> Daniel Sheehy: Maso Rivera. And so what about Ladi [Ladislao Martínez] >> Gabriel Muñoz: Ladi -- I consider Ladi to be the godfather of the modern cuatro. La D is the person who made the modern cuatro famous, the ten strings, the shape, all this came through evolution. I understand that cuatro had different looks throughout the years since its creation, but Ladi deserves so much in my perspective so much reverence and honor for what he did in modernizing the instrument itself and style of technique he used to play and the music he used. He composed so many songs, so many songs, hundreds of songs that until this day are standards for cuatritas to learn from. I can never go without mentioning Ladi. To this day, we still try, try to learn one or two of his songs and perform. Like I said, he's the godfather of the modern cuatro. >> Daniel Sheehy: Well now that we're on the cuatro, tell us about the cuatro. For someone who's never seen the cuatro, doesn't know it. Why -- first of all, the ten strings and it's called cuatro. What's that all about? >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah. I mean, there's -- I've heard so many different stories in Puerto Rico and over here about how the Puerto Rican cuatro had evolved and has evolved. One of the things was what you just mentioned. Why cuatro? Cuatro means 'number four' in Spanish. So one of the things I learned was that it had four strings when it first started evolving. As time went by, I guess with different artisans and luthiers experimenting, making instruments, they decided to make or add strings, change the shape. To this day, even in this year 2016, I see different luthiers experimenting with different styles, shapes and looks --adding strings, removing strings. A lot of the times it's just a preference of the musician himself. Ladi, for example, he asked for ten strings. There's another cuatrita by the name of -- known as Totas Feliciano [spelling?]. He was one of the original pioneers of where the cuatro hadn't even evolved yet, had four strings, six strings, eight strings, and as these guys went along, they added, modified - but Ladi really made the ten-string popular, the violin look with the ten strings was the modern cuatro that Ladi made. ^M00:06:26 >>Daniel Sheehy: The violin look, with the... ^M00:06:29 >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah. The violin with the -- as European music influenced a lot in Puerto Rico, the jíbaro, as we call [him] wanted to feel some sense of sophistication, some sense of acceptance in the higher class, and they kind of copied the violin shape since that represented the violin, a lot of the classical music and modern style, higher class music and so the countrymen, the peasant of Puerto Rico thought, "hey, that shape signifies this." And they wanted to add to that so they figured that's where Ladi made this famous with the modern Puerto Rican cuatro. >> Daniel Sheehy: So, as far as you know. Ladi was the one who really made that the standard, that shape there? >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah, once -- I can't tell you he specifically asked for this shape, but I do know that once Ladi - Ladi Martinez is his full name - once Ladi started coming out on the radio performing live, people would hear him all over the island. He was one of the first ones to come out on the air performing. Everyone around the island wanted to know what was that cuatro, that instrument he was playing. Once they saw it, everyone's baffled, and it just kind of took off like wild fire. Everyone ordering cuatros made the same way, and it became the standard cuatro after Ladi. >> Daniel Sheehy: And I think didn't he have two cuatros in his ensembles? >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah. It was Ladi and he had a cousin named Sarrail Archilla, if I'm not mistaken, one of his own cousins that would play harmony to his songs.... >> Anibal Ortiz: Duo? >> Gabriel Muñoz: His duo, yeah, to all his pieces. >> Daniel Sheehy: Do you ever do that yourself or -- you had one cuatro [inaudible]? >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah. We predominantly tend to have the one cuatro, but once in a while we'll get together with another fellow cuatro player and try to work on a double - two-part piece or something. >> Daniel Sheehy: What are the advantages of having just one cuatro? >> Gabriel Muñoz: I guess you have more room to improvise and to just have fun and let go, sort of like what I do on stage. When you have two cuatros and you have to kind of try to stay organized section just to harmonize with the second cuatro. >> Daniel Sheehy: So we're talking about the cuatro [inaudible]. Can you just give a little sound or tell us -- people who might not have heard this before or close up like this? >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah, well what I love about this instrument also I consider the 12-string guitar, the American guitar, 12 steel string. It has -- being that the strings are doubled, it kind of gives a natural chorus effect. You see a lot of rock guitars and such that will plug up to an amplifier, let's say, or an effects pedal, and it'll add a chorus effect. This has a natural -- a chorus effect just by having the double strings as also the 12-string guitar, which is something that just fascinates me and so this is what it sounds like. [Plays a chord.] So it's difficult to tell, but if you have the patience and the ear to listen to it, the waves kind sort of -- the sound waves sort of go like this, and you can kind of feel that vibration as opposed to a single string -- if I were to play [plays single string]-- if I'm playing the double, it has sort of a more robust or fuller sound. And that's something that always stuck in my ear when I would watch or listen to anyone play. ^M00:10:18 My thing is to listen to their technique. How do they use that to their advantage? And that kind of resonates with me the most. One of which is Edwin Colón Zayas that has practically dominated almost every genre that exists for the Puerto Rican cuatro. His technique is beyond phenomenal. And that's something that I always pay attention to when I watch people and listen to people play. How do they use that to their advantage, of course, using their own technique. Every musician developed their own style and technique. And Edwin has kind of dominated every part of the cuatro to this day. >> Daniel Sheehy: When you play the Bach, for some reason my mind jumped to his version of "The Flight of the Bumble Bee." >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yes. Yes. Exactly. Like I said, he's kind of dominated everything since the 80s, I believe. Edwin has been tinkering with classical music, and every time he puts an album out, there's always a classical song in there, one or two, and it's just his way of saying, hey, the Puerto Rican cuatro can be mainstream, it can be used for this. It's inspiring the rest of us. >> Daniel Sheehy: What's your message when you include a Bach Suite, for example, cello? >> Gabriel Muñoz: Basically, I would say I'm kind of going off of what Edwin and several other cuatro players have done. I don't like to keep the cuatro inside this box where it's predominantly just mountain music, using Christmas time for like what we consider Christmas caroling, what we know as parandas and it's just jamming, and we're going house to house Christmas caroling and that's it the rest of the year because this instrument is basically most popular at Christmas time. But I like where a lot of cuatritas are going, where they're just taking it out of that box and say here, there's some bluegrass. Here's some R and B. Here's some classical. Here's this, here's that. And I kind of like the idea and the concept of making it a little bit more mainstream because I feel, obviously, it'll reach more cultures, more people and say hey here's this instrument just in case you didn't know it existed. >> Daniel Sheehy: You lived in New Jersey for a long time now, right? >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yes, sir. >> Daniel Sheehy: Yomo Toro, you run across him? >> Gabriel Muñoz: I had the opportunity of meeting him on two occasions. He did -- he frequented New Jersey a lot, and he did come to my area in Trenton where I reside, to perform on two occasions. I had the -- I didn't have the privilege and honor of performing with him, but I got to sit and watch this great, great legend and master perform. I'll be honest with you. I wouldn't want to even take my instrument out of the case in front of him. I mean, it's just I honored him so much. He's always another inspiration with his style and genre tapping into the salsa world, something that I believe he made popular with a lot of old school salsa singers, Celia Cruz, Willie Colon and La Fania All Stars Group that was formed in the 70s. I remember the story of him being requested at the recording studio for a salsa album. They told him bring the electric guitar. Bring your friend or we're going to put some rock guitar into the salsa. Give it some kind of fusion. The day comes to record, and Yomo shows up at the studio with his cuatro on his back. And Willie Colon, one of the producers of the album said, "We're not recording Christmas music. This isn't jíbaro music from the mountains." And Yomo says, "I'm a cuatro player. This is what I play." The rest was history. He made that popular everywhere he went. I mean, they traveled the world, Africa, Japan, you name it. And the cuatro was front and center with that, and it's people like that that we have to give thanks to, younger generation of cuatro players. We know that there's that opportunity out there. >> Daniel Sheehy: That's a good topic right there. Can you tell us -- I mean, you're in circulation. You go around and hear different groups and they hear you, and you meet people. What is happening with the younger generation and the cuatro? >> Gabriel Muñoz: I'm kind of on the fence on the growth of the cuatro. I obviously see more popularity of the cuatro on the island, in Puerto Rico. There's -- schools are starting to make it part of the curriculum now to learn the cuatro. There's a young man by the name of Pablo Hernandez. He's the first in history to graduate with a Bachelor degree -- Bachelor's degree on the Puerto Rican cuatro with a concentration in jazz, just a month ago in Puerto Rico, and they're starting to make it a curriculum now which is something I'm very proud to know, and I'm glad to be alive during this time where this is coming into fruition. I wish that over here in the States more younger people would get involved not necessarily just learning to play the instrument, but at least learn about it and learn the culture and be involved with it so that we can pass this heritage down to our children. >> Daniel Sheehy: New Jersey and New York, I think have probably been important places for the cuatro and jíbaro ever since Ladi was around there, right? It was a major hit and galvanized people and raised their Puerto Rican sense of self, identity and dignity. Do you have -- say you want to renew your roots. Are there people in New Jersey, New York, Hartford, Connecticut, Chicago or -- >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah. There's quite a few. They're sparse but there's quite a few. There's a small community, and I try my best to try to network with as many as I can to keep it going, share music. We sit down and "Hey, you teach me this song. I'll teach you that song. You teach me this riff. I'll teach you that riff." Just to stay inspired. It also keeps you motivated when you're surrounded by that type of atmosphere. You as a musician -- everyone gets an inspiration, a motivation, an idea, a thought from someone else or somewhere else, so we try to always keep a close knit relationship with a lot of -- especially New York. New York is, I believe, is really crowded with a lot of cuatro players and people that are involved somehow directly or indirectly with the music of the Puerto Rican cuatro. So we try to reach out to as many as we possibly can. >> Daniel Sheehy: Let me ask you. This is a little bit of an abstract question, but you've played and learned in Puerto Rico, and you've played and learned in New Jersey and New York, around there. How is it different? Is it different? Is there a different feeling or different music? >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah, there is. We actually talk about that a lot. The styles and techniques are a bit different. Melodies are a bit different in Puerto Rico then it is over here. Being raised over here, my influences would be Jimmy Hendrix, things more popular over here; whereas over there they live, eat and breathe this instrument 24/7 and everyone that has played before them. So they're what I would like to consider much more hard core when it comes to the cuatro, and I hear it. I'm like they have such a wonderful flavor to their music, such a wonderful flavor that we try to imitate to the best of our ability being that we're over here. We have the privilege and honor of having good rapport with a lot of musicians in Puerto Rico. And so they have no problem with sharing with us anytime we call or share videos or phone calls and ideas. "Hey, you did something on this video that I saw. You played this song. How do you do that?" And we have no problem sharing. "Say, hey, listen. I'm going to send you the music. I'll send you the video. Just grab your cuatro. We'll be over the phone. We'll just do it over the phone." So we have that advantage. But yeah, the sound's a little bit different. The techniques are a little bit different from over here and over there. But generally, cuatro players and also guitar players that accompany the cuatro for the most part try to imitate whatever we can from the island, which is more pure. >> Daniel Sheehy: They borrowed a bit, though, in Puerto Rico, right? Like from the joropo from Venezuela or Colombia? >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah. There's a major -- >> Daniel Sheehy: You got [inaudible]. >> Gabriel Muñoz: There's so many influences in Puerto Rico. There's so much to grab from. There's so much to grab from with the pasida [spelling?], the joropo, the valse, the paso doble, the mazurka, what we interpret it today. There is so much to grab for, and there's a little bit of influence, so much, so many different countries in South America in different areas, and this kind of evolved into this wonderful thing where we feel we can make it our own for the cuatro, and like I mentioned earlier, we like to consider the dansa sort of classical form. To me, it's one of the higher end class of music, sort of like ballroom dancing and stuff like that, and the same thing with the valse and the mazurka . These are styles and genres of music that, I really feel, you have to put your pants on right and learn them properly and interpret them right. Before or after our performance today, I was approached by a woman that said "I'm a classical guitarist, and I saw you play this classical piece," and she was complimenting. And I said, "You know what? Thank you for telling me that now and not before I played. I would have felt so much more pressure knowing that there's an actual classical guitarist in the midst." So it's those styles of music that we take from every country and have become our own throughout the years because of people like Ladi, because of people like Maso or Yomo Toro and these cuatro players of the old guard that have made those standards for us. >> Daniel Sheehy: At some point, we should turn to the music. I had one other -- just to continue on the -- what the cuatro means to you: When you were explaining how you play a string, and there's that double little bit of a vibration that's created by the two almost the same pitches. Also it's against your body, and I'll just -- my own impression when you're on the stage performing you're really in yourself. You're in a world there. Can you either remember a time before where you suddenly felt really moved or what -- tell us about that. >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah. ^M00:20:54 I guess I try to focus and concentrate on my most intimate moments with the instrument. It's so simple for us as instrumentalists of any instrument whether it's the cuatro guitar, piano, violin, clarinet, doesn't matter. We are -- or even vocal singer -- we do our best when we're alone, when we're in private when no one's watching. There's no pressure. Even in the shower. I sing better in the shower. You'll never hear me in public, for example. So I try to zone in and hone in on those moments in my mind and in my emotions while I'm playing of the most intimate moments so that it will, I guess level my comfort zone to try to focus on my mission, which is to try to make you feel what I'm feeling while I'm playing which is to try to make you think about where I'm taking you through my music and why and when and where. And I feel that it'll resonate more with your memory and your heart that you walk away with an experience and not just entertainment. And so when I perform, my ultimate goal essentially is to do just that exactly. Just try to resonate my thoughts, feelings, emotions at that moment. And again, I zone into those intimate moments when I'm in my room, for example, my bedroom either composing a piece or just playing something I've played a thousand times before. Did I play it differently this time? Did you understand it? Did you appreciate it? Why and how? Because those are the type of moments that resonate with me with other cuatro players. I walk away with an experience. I remember that more than just being entertained, just putting on a show. I can talk to him here over their playing, but you're not doing anything. It's just entertainment. But when you have my full complete focus on you, it's because you're doing something through the instrument and so that's what ultimately my goal is. >> Daniel Sheehy: Do you -- are those feelings different when you play in Puerto Rico then when you play in New Jersey or New York or... >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah. When I have -- I have to admit. When we're visiting the island, it's such a different spirit that just comes over us when we're playing, specifically when we meet up with other cuatritas or guitarists that are known for this because you're trying to exactly emotionally connect with that person and so when we're back here, back home in the States, we're trying to re-enact that, if you will, and we try to live that moment that we had in front of you here so that you can try to get that interpretation of what it is we're doing in Puerto Rico, what the music is doing over there. >> Daniel Sheehy: Turning to the music a bit here. You mentioned the aguinaldo genre as the bedrock of some of things you play here. Tell us about some of the other genres, valse and dansa and those kinds of things. >> Gabriel Muñoz: As I said prior, the dansa is one of the most beautiful, beautiful forms that exists for the cuatro. My dream is to eventually record an album where it's nothing but dansas. One of the most beautiful things ever heard on the Puerto Rican cuatro. It wasn't originally the dansa particularly wasn't originally created for the cuatro, by the cuatro. It was an orchestra type arrangement played on piano and horns and such. But as time went by and the cuatro started becoming more mainstream in the late 1800s and things like that, early 1900s, and what Ladi did do it, for example, I'll go back to that. The dansa became more and more and more. And such -- the same thing with the valse, the same thing with the mazurka, the same thing with the joropo. Each style is in its own world but still stands out in its own form of class. >> Daniel Sheehy: Could you introduce your colleague and maybe give us a taste of alguinaldo and then a seis or two and then maybe a dansa, whatever you're moved to -- >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah. This is Anibal Ortiz, our group guitarist. We've been playing together for approximately ten years now. And the moment we started playing we instantly clicked. Being that Anibal also plays a little bit of cuatro, so he's familiar with the style. He has that in his ear already, which he translates to the guitar and I believe perfect accompaniment on many instances. And yeah, we would love to try to go through maybe a couple of different -- >> Daniel Sheehy: Yeah, just a little taste, a little sample. >> Gabriel Muñoz: A couple genres. >> Daniel Sheehy: Gives a sense of how they're different. >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah. So here we'll do the alguinaldo "Auro Que Venyo" [spelling?] and it basically goes like -- which is like you said earlier is sort of a bedrock standard on the cuatro for the troubadour to sing. It goes like this. ^M00:25:50 [ Music ] ^M00:26:35 >> Daniel Sheehy: Beautiful to hear musicians who play together a lot. There's this messaging going on and it can be very subtle sometimes. >> Gabriel Muñoz: As I said earlier, we connect pretty well when we play the music being that we have such a profound understanding of what it's meant to do, not just how it's supposed to sound, but what it's meant to do and so that helps the entire experience basically. >> Daniel Sheehy: And that alguinaldo, "Auro Que Venyo" [spelling] identifies with a certain town in Puerto Rico? >> Gabriel Muñoz: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. In Puerto Rico, there's different genres named after different towns, and I'm assuming because a certain cuatrita might have created it who lives in that town and named it after the town. There's a town called Comerio in Puerto Rico, and they have a seis which sounds like this. ^M00:27:32 [ Music ] ^M00:28:09 >> Gabriel Muñoz: So that's another example that seis, particular seis where the troubadour sings to came from that town, and likewise many other towns have their own version of different alguinaldos and seis, which are the two predominant. >> Daniel Sheehy: What's a seis? >> Gabriel Muñoz: A seis-- all right, now you're going to get me into history lesson here. >> Daniel Sheehy: No, not too deep. >> Gabriel Muñoz: I know that seis, the reason they're called seis is there's rules and regulations to singing these songs. It's customary in traditions. It has to be a certain amount of syllables, certain words have to rhyme. Others don't. Not everyone can sing -- formally sing this kind of music. And although I'm not a troubadour myself, I never really studied, but the same thing applies to the alguinaldo, which are the two major genres. You have the seis, and then the alguinaldo also has to have its own rules and regulations where you can only sing on one sentence or one line a certain amount of syllables per word, per sentence, per line. And every other sentence has to rhyme in a certain way. And a lot of people don't know this. There's actual rules and regulations -- formally singing this music and playing. >> Daniel Sheehy: Do they still use the term espinela? >> Gabriel Muñoz: Exactly, espinela. That's where the inspiration comes from and the concept to sing the sies. >> Daniel Sheehy: You play lots of different kinds of seises, right? Seis means six, but it's kind of a genre that -- >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah. Under each category, there's -- wow hundreds maybe of seis in different styles alguinaldos. >> Daniel Sheehy: And what other genres do you play? We have alguinaldos. We have sies.... >> Gabriel Muñoz: Alguinaldos and seis. Then there's the bomba y plena, which is also typical of Puerto Rico, but more of the African influence in Puerto Rico with the conga drums and everything like that. Yeah. The cuatro and guitar were added on to the bomba y plena for melody and singing to accompany, but that style of music in all genres have the African influence which is something we're very proud of. We enjoy playing bombas and plenas and stuff and things like that when we get together as a group. Everyone enjoys -- those are really upbeat, festive, danceable songs or styles. >> Daniel Sheehy: Do you hang with pleneros in New Jersey and New York? There are a lot of [inaudible] there. >> Gabriel Muñoz: We've had the privilege of performing once or twice with a couple of groups. But we haven't had the honor of actually being able to hang and meet with someone where we can sit down and say -- to work on, let's collaborate on something. >> Daniel Sheehy: Lots of potential there. >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah, exactly. >> Daniel Sheehy: And so what else? Do you play the dansa? You play the mazurka. What are some of the other? >> Gabriel Muñoz: There's also paseo [spelling?]. We can do a paseo. ^M00:31:04 There's that style. I do -- I'm not going to really say because I'm not certain what South American country the paseo has influenced Puerto Rico, but it has become so popular and also become a standard in styles of music of the Puerto Rican cuatro, and there's a cuatro player by the name of Eddie Lopez in Puerto Rico who has also composed many, many songs; of whom, which Edwin Colón Zayas has been influenced -- influenced by. And there's a paseo that he plays. Eddie Lopez composed many years ago, and it goes like this so you can get the understanding of the rhythm. It goes. ^M00:31:39 [ Music ] ^M00:32:14 So on and so forth. But you get the concept behind the idea. >> Daniel Sheehy: I see you get lost in that. >> Gabriel Muñoz: I do. But yeah, see the rhythms change on guitar and so every rhythm is a different influence from a different country, I would say, that somehow somewhere or another has become a standard for how cuatritas play in Puerto Rico and how they compose music. >> Daniel Sheehy: So just to round off the different kinds of music valse, you mentioned a valse. >> Gabriel Muñoz: Valse. Yeah, there's a valse that Edwin Colón Zayas made very popular, one of his own inspirations and compositions. ^M00:32:50 [ Music ] ^M00:32:55 I believe he even named it after one of his daughters. ^M00:33:00 [ Music ] ^M00:33:43 So you have that rhythm too for valse, which is gorgeous. I mean, it's such an exquisite rhythm and style of playing. >> Daniel Sheehy: It is. What else is there? Is there something marimba [spelling?]? >> Gabriel Muñoz: There is marumba. There's chacarar [spelling?]. Guaracha is one of our favorite styles. I mean, that's -- let's do "Flamboyan" guaracha will give you a quick snippet of -guaracha is one of the most popular danceable styles, and there's a real famous song made popular many years ago in Puerto Rico named "El Flamboyan," which is beautiful fiery red tree that exists in Puerto Rico, and it is -- a certain cuatro player many, many years ago inspired by that also composed a fiery song for it, entitled it after the tree, which is called the flamboyan tree. It goes like this. ^M00:34:34 [ Music ] ^M00:35:08 And so on and so forth. So, it's a danceable, upbeat type style known as guaracha . That's also popular. Early 1900s that really took off the guaracha style and you would hear that in all dance halls and parties and people would always dance and ask for guaracha so they could dance. >> Daniel Sheehy: Beautiful rhythm. You're tapping your foot. Tempo.... >> Gabriel Muñoz: You can't help but feel that rhythm, you know? That style. >> Daniel Sheehy: Now, you're a composer as well. What sorts of pieces do you compose? >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah. I'll be honest with you. My compositions and inspirations come very rare. I don't sit at home composing every week. In the almost 25 years, around 25 years I've been playing, I might have composed five or six songs, if that. But it has to be something major that takes over me emotionally obviously to move me to a musical piece. And I've had the honor of composing a dansa, which I performed today; a mazurka, which I also performed today; a joropo and so on. I've even composed a guaracha and a prelude, because of being inspired by the classical movement on the Puerto Rican cuatro, and so I guess like any other musician, you get an inspiration from somewhere. Mine just don't come that quickly, but when they do, I try to take advantage of it and try to compose the best piece possible that'll resonate throughout the years because I also understand that it's something that will last for years. I hear songs from the 1940s, 1950s by Ladi, for example, and they still feel timeless and so when I do get an inspiration, I try to follow that idea. >> Daniel Sheehy: Yeah. You didn't compose and seises or aquinaldos. What's that? >> Gabriel Muñoz: I know -- it's funny you mention that. Being that I was born in the town of Twetado, [spelling?] in Puerto Rico, I always wanted to compose some type of seis, [inaudible] or aguinaldo, and I just -- I guess I'm taking my time because I don't want to copy anyone. There's so many out there. You think you compose something and someone already did it. So I'm trying to take my time with how I'm going to do this so that it'll be my own inspiration. >> Daniel Sheehy: By the way, did you ever meet Emilio Rosado, the National Heritage Fellow? >> Gabriel Muñoz: No I didn't. >> Daniel Sheehy: Craftsman. [Inaudible]. Instrument makers. They're just some great crafts people in Puerto Rico; in the United States, as far as that goes making the cuatro. Who made yours? Who are some of the ones that you gravitate to? >> Gabriel Muñoz: Like you said, there are so many of them. I started basically at the bottom with the simple cuatro my father bought from someone off the street for $50, and I remember when I first got inspired at the age of 14, I said, "Dad, when I turn 15 for my 15th birthday, I would like a cuatro so I can learn." And my Dad walked in on my 15th birthday with a black trash bag, and in it was this cuatro cracked already because of the years weighing on it, and with that cuatro I learned -- I don't know who made it or where it came from, but -- and to this day, I still have that cuatro at home, by the way. I look at that cuatro and I remember why I started, and so I've come to learn and meet so many great luthiers and cuatro makers. This one in particular: I was after this gentleman for several years. His name is -- he's known as Manuel Feneque Rodriguez. He's from a town called Rincón in Puerto Rico, which is very far west of the island near the beach and -- >> Daniel Sheehy: Kind of a corner.... >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah. Kind of in a corner. Exactly. >> Daniel Sheehy: Rincón meaning corner. >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah, exactly. Rincón meaning corner. Exactly. And so I was after him for a couple of years and I had to be on a waiting list, I think, for about three, four years to get an instrument from him. I've run through so many different luthiers. We're never satisfied. We're always looking for the next best guitar, next best cuatro. You want something of quality, obviously, to last you many years. Sometimes it's just preference. And so I just felt it was a point in my life in time where I can go to the next level and try to acquire a good quality instrument. When I heard from Mr. Feneque, I contacted him. He said, "Well, there's a waiting list. I can put you on it. Call me next year, if I have an opening." And I kept calling him every year from that moment on, and it took me about four years to get one from him. He makes great quality instruments, great quality and great sound. >> Daniel Sheehy: So you had to wait a year to call to get on the waiting list? >> Gabriel Muñoz: Every -- I would call him every year. He said call me next year. If I have an opening, I'll let you know. So he called me after like the third or fourth year and said, "Listen, a client backed out. I have a cuatro I made for him. Now he backed out for whatever reasons. If you like the instrument, it's yours. If not, then I'll have to make one for you. I'll send you photos of it." I wasn't really content with what I saw I saw, not because it wasn't a great instrument. I already -- in my mind I envisioned colors, shapes and what I wanted. So I was able to say, hey, this is what I kind of really wanted. He said, "Well, give me about six months -- it takes about six months to do. I don't fabricate numbers, mass fabrication. I work on two, maybe three an entire year." That way he puts all his heart and soul into it in detail. And six months turned into a year, and it was finally done. He took his time, and I was more than content, more than happy when I opened the case and saw it. That's another thing. I don't know what I'm going to get. I'm over here. It's different if I'm over there with him, and I can say okay, this is how I want it to look. I want that wood. I want this sound. But I didn't know what I was going to get until I opened the case. And I feel in love with it. >> Daniel Sheehy: Is that cedar, mahogany or what is that? >> Gabriel Muñoz: What's that -- the back? >> Daniel Sheehy: This side. This side, yeah. >> Gabriel Muñoz: The side -- this is actually rosewood. >> Daniel Sheehy: Rosewood? Okay. >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah. This is -- >> Daniel Sheehy: So that's your request, right? >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah. Rosewood -- Brazilian rosewood, which was aged for 20 years. And I think an English spruce top, was aged for ten years. And so everything that he does it's climate controlled wood, climate controlled work that he does, aged so that you get a good quality instrument. Not a lot of people are doing that. Yeah, the arm rest also. This is a nice little detail. Obviously, this concept comes from classical guitars. When people sit down and play classical guitars, they'll place their forearm to play, which is a proper form of interpreting the classical guitar, which is technically not the same applies to the cuatro. A lot of times when we're playing, it's up here. Such a small instrument to begin with. You're up here. But sometimes I like to sit down and interpret my pieces like that. So this is something that is one of his signature things, on a cuatro he'll place an arm rest. >> Daniel Sheehy: Interesting. So getting back to New Jersey a little bit: Who do you play for? Who's the people in the audience and what are they doing? Are they sitting there listening to you? Are they dancing? What -- tell us about that. >> Gabriel Muñoz: I guess that depends on what type of venue or event it may be. Predominantly, again, it goes back to what I was saying earlier. A lot of people love to hear the festive stuff. People listen to this instrument and like what you guys head today on stage with us performing. A lot of it is just danceable music and people want us to come to a party or graduation or wedding reception and play. It makes me -- now that you mention it, it makes me go back to Ladi's days where if there was a party, people would ask for dansas. People would ask for his compositions. That was the danceable music of that time, the dansas, the formal type ballroom dancing, and mazurkas and valses and things. Nowadays, it's different. Now with the modern times and all, this instrument has to try to keep up and so with all the different genres and styles out there, now we find ourselves playing a lot of more of the danceable music. >> Daniel Sheehy: Do you play any Jimmy Hendrix? >> Gabriel Muñoz: No, actually -- >> Daniel Sheehy: What's some of the wild stuff you might do? Even for fun? >> Gabriel Muñoz: I think we've experimented with "Hotel California" before. We've even tried to experiment and delve into the Cuban style music also. I get some of my influences from Cuban style music, the Cuban tres, which is their folklore guitar. ^M00:43:41 And I try to adapt some of that to the cuatro. >> Daniel Sheehy: So who are the audiences? Are they all Boricuas? Are they all anybody? >> Gabriel Muñoz: The majority, yeah. Most of the time it is fellow countrymen and people from Puerto Rico that just want to have our music and such like that. We -- I do have to mention -- I absolutely love the opportunity to perform for not Puerto Ricans, for other cultures, because it's my opportunity to teach about the instrument and things like that. This instrument isn't as popular as some of us think it is. You go to certain areas and countries within Europe, and they've never seen this thing. And so I love the chance and opportunity to say, "hey, did you know about this instrument, where it's from, how it sounds? " And maybe try to get them to kind of follow with the sound. >> Daniel Sheehy: Somebody might say you must be from -- cuatro -- that must be from Venezuela or something like that because the famous instrument there, Colombia or whatever. What -- so what -- what's your neighborhood like? Are you in a Puerto Rican neighborhood or -- where do you -- what's your -- ? >> Gabriel Muñoz: The city I grew up in Trenton is more of an urban setting. There are a lot of minorities. A lot of -- I noticed the past ten, fifteen years, a lot of Puerto Ricans have migrated out of Trenton to different areas. I have the privilege of knowing two cuatro players that still stay and live in Trenton so we can get together from time to time, kind of share inspiration, ideas and such. >> Daniel Sheehy: How do you fit this into your life? Are there other jealousies out there that want your time? >> Gabriel Muñoz: No. Actually, this is it. Yeah, this is it.... >> Daniel Sheehy: 24, 7? >> Gabriel Muñoz: I mean, I do have a full time job, but any moment, any breathing moment I can, I'm sitting down with this thing trying to figure out where it's going to take me next. >> Daniel Sheehy: What do you do in your full time job? Police officer? >> Gabriel Muñoz: I'm actually a humane law enforcement officer, humane police officer. So for the past almost 20 years I investigate animal cruelty. That's something that I've always been passionate about. That's why I've been here so long. It's something that I love doing. Not anything that I was focusing on doing, just kind of fell into it, but fell in love with it and been there ever since. It's such a rewarding job. And so it's kind of strange because I come home and then I sit down with this. It's a whole different world. >> Daniel Sheehy: Actually, one of the reasons I asked is because I knew someone who was a police officer, and he was a salsa flutist, and so he would go shut himself in his car and practice it. I just wondered if you do the same. >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah. In my earlier years, I would take my -- one of my lower-end cuatros. I didn't want to damage my good ones, but I would take one of my cuatros to work with me to headquarters and just practice because I would have -- I don't read or write music. Everything I do is mostly by ear. And so when I would get one of my inspirations for my compositions for example, I have to sing it all day so I wouldn't forget so I would take my cuatro with me, and I'll play the or dansa I'll play the mazurka over and over and over so I won't forget it on my lunch break, and until the song is complete, it would take me several weeks. Sometimes I will start a composition, leave it alone, step back and try to listen to it from afar and wonder what I'm doing. Is it going in the right direction? Is it going to have the same inspiration when I'm done? So on and so forth until the piece is complete. >> Daniel Sheehy: Yeah. Those two pieces you played have a beautiful sentimentality to it, an elegance to it, well thought out kind of feel. Really nice. Has anyone else ever played your compositions or is it too challenging for them? >> Gabriel Muñoz: My pieces aren't really that complex. I mean, they're -- my pieces are predominantly simple. I have heard one or two cuatro players try to interpret some of my songs and ask if they can play them. And by all means, that's what it's here for. I'm not picky or -- but I would say stingy about my pieces. Anyone wants to learn my songs, more power to them. It's there for that reason so it can keep going. I want to be able to grow old and many years later hear one of my songs and say I'm glad that I was able to inspire this one particular person. Maybe that one song was the one song that person wanted to hear needed to hear to get an inspiration to continue playing and learning. >> Daniel Sheehy: On the topic of growing old, we're here in the Library of Congress. And certain institutions in this town, Washington, D.C. think a long time ahead. So we're right now -- this will be part of the archives. This is part of the collections here. And I assume it'll be here for 50, 100, 200, whatever hundreds of years there might be. What right now -- do you have anything that you think people should know a hundred years from now or 200 years from now or whatever about your music, about you, about the group or what part of American society you are? No pressure. >> Gabriel Muñoz: Not at all, right? Not at all. Wow. >> Daniel Sheehy: Even if something frivolous -- whatever it might be. >> Gabriel Muñoz: Yeah, I would want -- obviously, I would want the music and the culture of the music to flourish. I'm at a point right now in this time in era and generation where the cuatro has grown a lot. It has continued to evolve, and I'm seeing it grow, although in a small community that it is, I am seeing it growing. And I just -- I hope that it continues and continues to grow. It's flourishing very well now, and I want that to keep on going and eventually until the cuatro is basically fully mainstream as it would be - as a guitar is or a piano. I want this instrument to somehow revolutionize the music of Puerto Rico. >> Daniel Sheehy: Well, they say that right now what one out of six people who live in the United States are Latino. ^M00:50:09 So as the demography moves ahead, it could in a way happen in a very organic sense combined with beauty of your music and also changing demography of the United States. That's the kind of thing that I think about. Who are the Ladis now for the future? Or who are the Lead Bellys -he was like 1940's, the Woodie Guthries from way back then? Looking ahead now, who are they right now looking today? >> Gabriel Muñoz: Who are they? Where are they? What are they doing? And how will they change the world as we know it when it comes to the cuatro? >> Daniel Sheehy: And that's why we're interviewing you. >> Gabriel Muñoz: We can only hope and pray to be just a small ripple and be able to inspire other cuatro players. >> Daniel Sheehy: Well, it takes all the ripples getting together to make things happen, in my experience. Could we round this off? I can't resist the temptation to see if there's a [inaudible] in there somewhere because you were all over that fingerboard. You're all over that thing. And that I assume was all improvised. Have some basic ideas that you kind of remember over and over, but that was really played out in a very special way at that moment. Just so people can go away with their jaws dropped. ^M00:51:32 [ Music ] ^M00:53:31 >> Daniel Sheehy: Bravo. Well, what can I say? >> Gabriel Muñoz: Thank you. >> Daniel Sheehy: Well, as I'm going to take a page from what I heard you say today in the concert and say how grateful I am to have the opportunity to play some part in taking your life, your music, Mr. Ortiz' life and music out into the public sometime now and in the future. So thanks so much for being a part of this. >> Gabriel Muñoz: Thank you for having us. >> Daniel Sheehy: And congratulations. It's a real pleasure to have you here. So that's it. Thank you. >> Gabriel Muñoz: Awesome. >> This has been a presentation of the Library of Congress. Visit us at loc.gov.