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>> Karen Lloyd: I'm Karen Lloyd, Director of the Veteran's History Project and an army veteran. On behalf of the Library of Congress, Dr. Carla Hayden I'd like to thank you for choosing to join us today. I'd like to thank our moderator, Damon Helton, and all the panelists for accepting our invitation to share their experiences as military veterans and their expertise as it relates to agriculture. I would also like to thank any veterans in our viewing audience for their service and the sacrifices they've made for our country. Congress established the Veteran's History Project by unanimous decision in October 2000 to collect, preserve and make accessible the firsthand remembrances of US Army military veterans for future generations, so they may better understand what veterans saw, did and felt. Since that time the Veteran's History Project has archived more than 111,000 collections from the brave men and women who serve from World War I through the more recent conflicts. It's no secret that many veterans face challenges when they leave military service and transition back into civilian life. Sometimes those challenges are physical, due to injuries sustained in combat or in training. Many times they're the result of unseen wounds that effect mental and emotional health, such as post traumatic stress. Increasingly, we hear of veterans having difficulty finding adequate employment or successfully re-engaging with their communities. Research studies and personal testimonials tell us that farming and other careers related to agriculture work have proven to be beneficial to veterans, their families and communities, no matter where they live. Today's panelists will share with you the personal journey's that led them to successful careers as either farmers or work that supports veteran farmers. After viewing today, I hope you'll watch the panel we hosted a few weeks ago, which focused on veteran's who farm in  urban settings. And the unique opportunities and challenges they face. We'll be monitoring the comment section and look forward to your questions. First, we are honored that Senator John Boozman representing the state of Arkansas, a member of the Senate Agricultural committee and a dedicated long-time supporter of the Veteran's History Project chose to participate with us today, via a welcome video. 

>> Senator John Boozman: Good afternoon, I'm Arkansas Senator John Boozman. I'm pleased to join you for the Library of Congress Veteran's History Projects Panel, Veteran Grown, Farming. Our farmers and ranchers feed and clothe the nation and the world. To keep up with the expected global growth, the world's farmers will have to grow nearly 70% more food than what is currently being produced. We need to have the framework in place to keep up with the demand. That means recruiting and training the next generation of agricultural producers. Nearly 25% of veterans are from rural America according to the Department of Veteran's Affairs. This is only one reason why veteran's are well suited for a career in agriculture. Veteran's also bring a wide variety of experiences; discipline and they are certainly no strangers to hard work. All of which, are integral pieces of the successful farming operation. I'm proud of the work Congress has done to strengthen programs and increase resources available to provide veteran producers, continued technical assistance. Programs like the Appropriate Technology Transfer for Rural Access, commonly called ATTRA. Connects agriculture producers to information that helps them improve their operations. Originating under leadership of Margo Hale in my home state, ATTRA administers the Arm to Farm Program and assists veteran's in their transition to civilian life, by training them for a career in farming. It serves veterans while helping to - to diversify the makeup of our Ag industry. The 2018 farm bill provided additional support to veteran's who are transitioning into agriculture for things like down payment loans and disaster assistance coverage. Group - groups like the Farmer Veteran Coalition are mobilizing veterans for careers in this field. It has been a valuable partner in connecting veterans to agriculture opportunities and training. Veterans have demonstrated their ingenuity and developing flourishing farming practices that extend beyond the traditional idea of farming. We welcome future producers who will continue to help Arkansas Agriculture thrive and allow American farmers and ranchers to continue feeding the world. As you watch this panel, it is my hope that you will have an even greater appreciation for veterans who farm. If you are a veteran, or know one, contact the Veteran's History Project to find out how to submit an oral history interview when you do the veterans firsthand remembrances will be added to the archive, and made accessible for future generations. Thank you and enjoy the discussion.

>> Karen Lloyd: Thank you Senator Boozman for that thoughtful message and for your commitment to veterans in the Ag community. We are so grateful to you and the other members of Congress from both sides of the aisle for their support through the Veteran's History Project. I first met our moderator, Damn Helton, about three years ago when I traveled to Arkansas at the invitation of Senator Boozman and his dynamic military and veteran liaison Anita Deason. Damon's story was unforgettable. He had never left the state of Arkansas until he joined the Army a few months before the 9/11 terrorist attacks. He went on to serve five deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan. After he left the Army, Damon had a successful sale - sales career before he purchased some land and started the farm in Bear Cook Bend. And later the Old Crow General Store. Damon's expertise in every process that gets food from the farm to the consumer, makes him the perfect person to facilitate this conversation. While Damon already donates his oral history to VHB several years ago. He recently sat down with Anita Deason to record an update to let us know what he's been up to. I hope that everyone on the panel who has not already done so, as well as veteran's who are watching, will follow Damon's example and submit their interview, original photographs and other material documenting their service to VHP. Please go to loc.gov/vets to find out how. It is an honor to introduce Damon Helton. 

>> Damon Helton: Good afternoon. Thank you, Karen, for that introduction. I'd like to thank the staff of the Library of Congress Veteran's History Project for the invitation to moderate today's panel. Thanks in advance to our panelists for sharing their time, personal experiences and expertise with all of us today. Finally, I'd like to thank everyone who has tuned in. When the Veteran's History Project asked me to serve as the moderator, I felt honored and accepted the invitation absolutely right away. I was happy to be part of any conversation that connects issues surrounding both veteran's and farmers. As someone who wears both these hats, I think it's great that we're able to illuminate these kinds of issues and discussions on a national level. I can absolutely attest to the therapeutic, emotional and financial benefits that farming provides for veterans. My family means everything to me. And through sustainable farming I'm able to work alongside my beautiful wife Jana, not only to provide for our own family, but to enjoy a way of life that involves hard work, plenty of space and nature at its finest and satisfaction of living with the land. Our mission when we first started on this journey was to spark local economy by connecting the farmer and the consumer. You know our - our mantra is know your farmer, know your food. The holistic approach bringing together our family has strengthened our community, you know connecting people with their food again, and - and offers a healthier food alternative. Veterans like me, choose a farming as a career path are not only able to provide for their families, but they often have a huge positive impact on the communities in which they live. We have - we have servant's hearts is - is what I always go back to. And when we get out, we're looking for that way to serve again. So the governmental and non-profit programs that assist veteran's are doing their part to ensure veteran's receive the training and support they need to start and maintain their farms. These programs are critical to veteran success, so I'm really happy that we have the opportunity to discuss, and we'll touch on those as well - as well. The three panelists who are with us today represent various facets of farming in rural settings. Each one is a military veteran and by the end of this discussion I hope that everyone watching will have deployed or developed, excuse me, a new appreciation for this kind of work. And possibly be inspired to start your own farm, support an existing one or maybe both. Our panelists are going to take a couple of minutes each to introduce themselves and provide you with a summary of their background and current work. Afterwards I'll ask a couple of rounds of questions, giving the panelists an opportunity to follow up and - and add onto other's responses as well.

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A reminder for those of you who are tuned in, we invite you to use the comment section to submit any questions you may have for our panelists, or me. And we will respond - we will post those responses as we go. At this time, I'd like to present to you our veteran grown farming panelists. First, we have with us Justin Butts, Navy veteran, farmer, culinary - culinarian and artisan. And who runs his own soap making company. Butts grows hand made lard soap out of Petersburg, New York. We also have Eric Grandon, is a veteran - is an Army veteran who co-founded the Veteran's and Warriors to Agriculture Program, is a beekeeper at his family's Sugar Bottom Farms in Ovapa, I hope I didn't butcher that, West Virginia. Finally, we have Sara Creech, an Air Force Veteran who runs Blue Yonder Organic Egg Farm in North Salem, Indiana. And founded the non-profit Operation Groundwork. So we'll just go back and Justin if you want to kick us off then tell us a little bit about what you - what you guys are doing up there.

>> Justin Butts: Thank you for that Damon. Yeah, it's a pleasure to be here today, and to get to talk to all of you. As - as Damon said, I am Justin Butts. I was in the Navy for about five years. And I was stationed in San Diego, California on the Boxer. And I served two deployments. And on my second deployment I became a wounded warrior and I - I loved being in the military. And unfortunately, I had to - to retire a little earlier than I thought. And after I got out of the Navy, I - I didn't really want to just go back into working at other jobs. I wanted to be a farmer for my whole life. I grew up in the mountains in Pennsylvania. And I worked on some livestock farms when I was younger. And so the first year I was out of the Navy, I actually took over a farm and leased a farm. I had 500 chickens and I used to sell eggs to a grocery store. And I did that for about a year and I bought some pigs and started breeding pigs. And after that I went - that farm didn't quite go as - as productive as I wanted it to be, and I was new to farming. So after that I went to school for farming at the Seed Farm in Emmaus Pennsylvania, which was a year like long agricultural apprenticeship. And then I used my GI Bill to fulfill my dream of going to culinary school. So I went to the Culinary Institute of America. And I have a bachelor's degree in farm to table cooking, with a concentration in American food studies. And - yeah, I farmed all throughout college. I have been breeding Kunekune pigs for about five years. At one point I had up to like 40 pigs. And I had all these pigs, and I was - I was butchering them to eat them. Because I was in culinary school, I was learning how to make ham and bacon and things like that. And I would have all this lard left over. So while I was in college, I started a soap making business. And my school would buy my soap for me and I started wholesaling it to a couple communities in the area where I was at school. And that kind of helped me move into getting a job for a very popular non-profit organization called Soul Fire Farm where I worked at this past year. And I was livestock manager for their livestock program. We would - I raised Katahdin sheep. I had about 15 sheep, 20 pigs. I do five beehives. I keep geese, ducks and I did about 300 meat chickens and about 70 egg layers. And then part of the program at Soul Fire Farm, we actually mainly about outreaching to communities of color in the Albany and Troy, New York area. So I would actually deliver CSA shares and food donations every week to families in the area. We would do about 30 families a week. And I delivered 400 donations this past year. And Soul Fire Farms actually discontinuing their livestock program as of January, so I've actually taken to livestock manager position at Laughing Earth Farm, which is 10 miles down the street. And they - they do about 2,000 chickens a year. They do cows. They - they're expanding their pig breeding program and I'm still affiliated with Soul Fire in their braiding seeds fellowship, which is a program to help minority farmers eventually achieve owning their own farm. So at Laughing Earth, it's a larger farm and they're leasing the land to actually start to develop my own business further. So I still have my pigs and I'm still selling soap. And I'm still going to be doing community outreach and I've really put a lot of my time toward teaching people the skills to - to produce their own food. That was very important to me growing up in Pennsylvania. My family didn't have a lot of money. And farming was a way that I could produce extra food. I could make gifts for my family with farming. I could have something nice to just - to show them, so yeah, I teach classes on like butchering livestock, making ham, producing your own chickens, making soap. I - I teach people about like breeding pigs and working in beehives. I'm still new to keeping bees, but it's very, very enjoyable and I just think it's cool. But yeah, I - I think knowing how to do more, you can be more self-sufficient. And that was something that was very big in the Navy to just to be able to - to do things and to take care - everybody had to depend on you, so you had to be able to take care of yourself when I was in the military. You had to - you had to be able to support your team. You couldn't let them down, you had to be versatile and have a lot of different skills. And you had to have a very strong work ethic and I feel like that's very much helped me in my farming pursuits here. So I hope I didn't ramble on too long. And I'll go ahead and pass it back to Damon. 

>> Damon Helton: Justin, thank you. That was - that was absolutely perfect. I made sure I took some notes on some things you were saying, because I've - I've got some questions that have popped up. Good stuff. Eric, if you want to go ahead and - and - and kick it off for yourself.

>> Eric Grandon: All right, thanks a lot Damon. Again, like you said, I wanted to thank the Veteran's History Project for the invitation to - to do this. And it is an honor to me, to my family, and I just wanted to thank you very much. Sugar Bottom Farms started in 2013 after - shortly after attending the Arm to Farm inaugural class. We basically failed our first season, which was okay. No problem with that. But basically, we became a small commercial vegetable farm to start. And we - we also sold eggs, chickens and some berries. But we got in - shortly or after we got into farm to school program, which is something that we hold very dear to our heart. Living here in Central West Virginia as you all probably know throughout the country, we lost our coal production here. And there's a lot of poverty. There's a lot of unemployment. And being able to provide children with these vegetables, freshly grown and - and - and healthy, versus getting something from a truck, you know that's been shipped across country, it's something very special to us. You know, we were never set out to make money by doing this. It was more of a therapeutic aspect. I, myself was a 20-year veteran. I did two combat deployments and four peace time missions. I'm sure Damon knows all about peace time deployments. That's when you get shot at and nobody tells about it. But anyway, I retired in '05 and after a horrific flash back in 2011, it kind of left me with you know, not knowing what to do. And a very good friend of mine, Silver Star recipient Captain James McCormick, him and I like I said developed a program Veteran's and Warriors to Agriculture. And we had five in our inaugural class, and we're well over 400 right now. So I got bees kind of just to complement the vegetable production you know, and pollination. I was scared to death of them, didn't even go into the hive for two whole years. Luckily, they survived and after I learned how to keep bees and how easy it was, I started growing my bee population. 2017 we opened up the honeybee side to our farm. And it just literally exploded. We're now a full-service honey or honey bee and honey production company. That means I sell honeybees, I'm a honey bee farmer. So I grow bees. We sell bees and queens and equipment. And like I say, I provide free training here on the farm. I'm also one of the two certified instructors for our Department of Agriculture. Now this was only done after I completed the two-and-a-half-year internship in which I had to drive a 10 hour round trip for each visit I made to my mentors farm, which happened to be about 60 times during that two and a half years. So I've been through about 15,000 different hives. And I've seen a little bit of everything. And I tell everybody that the only thing I can't fix is dead. So if you have a problem with your bees, and you don't know what it is, just reach out to me.

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With the training aspect, we do a 16-hour lecture series. I've trained about 300 veterans and a total of about 700 give or - beginning, new beekeepers here in West Virginia, from Ohio, Virginia and Kentucky. I mentor people basically everywhere in Hawaii, Washington State, North Carolina, Virginia and in Washington DC. Of course we do all this through the internet, which is great when it works. But so now Sugar Bottom Farm - well I have to tell you first. We hired a marketing team about a year and a half ago who changed our basic look of you know, who Sugar Bottom Farm was. And ever since then we've - we've just - it's been off the charts. We're now in 24 different markets. We do a DC market, plus we just signed a contract with Gov-X. I'm sure you are familiar with that eCommerce site. 4.3 million subscribers, and I'm the only honey guy. So we go live with them in about two weeks and - I've just been prepping, filling honey jars, filling honey jars, that's - that's about all we've been doing. But you know what I'm looking forward to in the future, I have an international business partner. It's funny, his daughter was our exchange student back in 2015. And she's graduated college now and she's coming back to learn the business. Her dad and I, we've been partners for about two and a half years now. And our goal is to be able to retire and let our children take over and take care of us for a while. But as I said, I have hives in Hawaii. I haven't been over there for a year because of Covid. But they're producing like crazy. I plan on going over again in July for two months, if we're allowed to travel. But you know, I've spent a lot of time working with other veterans. I, myself have PTSD. I'm 100%, plus I've got a bunch of other stuff going on too. Actually I'm considered home bound. And I refuse to accept that as a you know, a way of life. I work 80 hours a week, easy. And I refuse to sit down. You know if we do, we die. So farming has been a life saver to me. It keeps me going. And you know I just thank God for it. Not only as a - just brought me back to my roots and as a family, but the - the community aspect. You know we're - we're very widely known here in West Virginia, and we're starting to be so in the surrounding states. I just received an offer to pollenate the largest vegetable production farm here in West Virginia, which I accepted. And so that's going to be another new aspect to our - our diverse business. So be nice if we could clone ourselves. The aspect of the being a soldier or sailor or airman or marine and - or coast guardsman and becoming a farmer, I think all of us have a little special niche in us that we found in the military. You see people that - that's really been successful in the military. They become successful business owners, successful farmers. They have that drive and that want to succeed. And I think they're being in the leadership positions throughout the military that gives you that drive, you know you can work autonomously without orders. You - you have that spark in your eye knowing that what happens out there is totally up to you. Whether you get up and go that day or you do not. And I think that's what makes us get out of bed every morning, you know? We want to be that successful entrepreneur; you might as well say. We do have a brand-new product that's getting ready to go into production. I applied for the value-added producer grant and I'm going to turn in our raw honey into a raw honey single serving packet, which has been done. But not here in the state by any other honey producing company. So we're going to hopefully corner the market here in West Virginia and hopefully go across the way with that. That's about it. 

>> Damon Helton: Well good deal. Thank you for sharing that and we got some - some good questions to - to come up out of that as well. Sara, good to see you again. 

>> Sara Creech: It's good to see you as well Damon.

>> Damon Helton: Tell us a little bit about what's going on.

>> Sara Creech: Yeah, first of all, thank you so much for this opportunity. I think it's really humbling to be asked here as a representative of what veterans can do and farming. And I honestly 100% believe that farming has saved my life. And I tell everybody that I can, especially veterans just that there's hope that there is more future for each of us. We have a lot to give. We have a lot of talents. And we really have the heart to serve people, so farming such a perfect match for the things that we've learned and the talents that we have. But I am an Air Force veteran. I actually joined the military a few years after graduating college in 2001. I got a nursing degree and shortly after watched 9/11 like all of you in horror. And over the next few years just really followed what was going on with our military and had such a heart for serving those who were fighting on the front lines. And I didn't have a lot of talents, but I was a good nurse. And I really wanted to make a difference and help those who were really sacrificing their lives and - so I joined the military. I shortly after went to California, was stationed at Traverse Air Force Base and not long after was deployed. I was deployed between 2005 and 2006. And when I came home, I had a lot of problems, kind of readjusting. I had been hurt while I was deployed, and just had a really hard time figuring out what the next steps were. I ended up being medically discharged. And had to kind of figure out where to go next. I couldn't really do nursing. I wasn't sure what to do. And luckily you know, over the next few years actually, my husband who is an Air Force pilot just really helped me through that, the VA helped me, other military friends. And I really built my life back up again. I went back into nursing. I felt really strong again and then shortly after that my husband was diagnosed with colon cancer. And we spent the next year fighting that. and through that experience, we started learning about food and the importance of nutrition and we started going to farmers markets. We started cooking our own food. And you know, over time we started visiting farms and talking to farmers. And it was just - there was something very - again very healing about that for both of us. And it really connected with us and you know we had all these ideas when he retired that we would buy a farm and you know, really live on the land. And you know, grow food and he died in 2011. And once again, I was kind of thrown into that you know, I don't know what to do with my life. Like it's almost very paralyzing like how to move forward. And you know I spent six months on the couch. And my sister one day called me and was like you know, "What are you going to do with your life?" And you know I said, the only thing I want to do is farming. And so literally I started going online and looking at farms. And I found a farm in North Salem, Indiana which I had never heard of. But it was within an hour of my sister and her family. And so I bought the farm, moved from Florida to Indiana, had no plan for anything. But I had that - that little seed of hope that this was something that was going to change my life. And so I moved out here. I started planting fruit trees. I started a small garden, bought a few chickens and really loved what I was doing, but had no idea you know, how I was going to get a job in that and make money and survive. And so I searched everything online and I found the contact information for the first program of arm to farm, which was offered by NCAT and ATTRA. And it was off in Arkansas, and I literally signed up and drove down there with you know, every fear that I had. 

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And met some amazing people. And really found direction for this passion of connecting with farming, with animals, with land, with plants. And that was really the beginning for me. From there I went back to Indiana. I made connections with our local farming community, you know our NRCS, Purdue extension, other local farmers and started realizing that I can build a farm, and I can do the things that I love and that bring me joy. But at the same time, after going through Arm to Farm and sitting in the auditorium and listening to every person tell their stories, both about their military history, but also about this desire to do something bigger and better back at home and serving their communities. I realized that there's such a need to get - get other veterans connected with that. and so I knew I wanted to start a farm. I knew I wanted to do veteran training. And so I started what's now Blue Yonder Organic Farm, named after the Air Force. But really as a nod to my husband and his service. And I started growing more chickens. I raised hundreds of egg layers, meat birds. I bought a couple bottle lambs off of Craig's List and that really exploded. So now I have about 50 mama sheep and bunches and bunches of lambs. I have cattle, a small herd of cattle, about 17. And then chickens, again meat birds, egg layers. And then I also do a market style garden, so about an acre of vegetables, fruits and vegetables. And then I you know, like many of other veterans like - I'm very passionate about a lot of different things. And so my farm has a lot of different things. So while those are my core crops, I also do beekeeping, and get honey off of that. And maple syrup and growing Shiitake mushrooms. And now started working on some value added products, and it's just literally farming to me is not a job. It's my entire life. It's how I built a community. It's how I really re-built my life and my passion, and it continues to be that hope that we give other veterans for being a part of something that's heeling, both for themselves but also you know, an opportunity to serve their community. So it's really an honor to be a farmer. It's an honor to be a veteran and to serve with all of you guys. 

>> Damon Helton: Well thank you for those introductions you guys. You know out of all the panels that I've - I've been a part of and - and going and watched, this is my first opportunity to moderate one. And this is probably the hardest thing I've ever done. This is - the stories that each one of you guys have and the - the wide spectrum of the - the farming that each one of you guys are doing. I mean I feel like we could just go on and on and I want more. I want to hear more. So, with that I'll get started on a few questions. And I'll take this back over to - to Justin. And so how - how have you found that - the type of farm that you - that you run and why did you decide to pursue that as a profession? You talked early on about how you really enjoyed the - the farming and growing up around that. Tell us a little bit more about what made you to pursue that - that culinary and farm to table profession?

>> Justin Butts: Oh well thank you, Damon. So when I was a child my grandpa grew up in North Carolina. And he would also talk about growing up and living on a farm and his family having a farm. And he didn't have a farm when I knew him. He lived in New Jersey. But my grandpa owned three houses when I was a little boy. And I remember about two years after my grandparents died, my family like lost their own house. And I lost like the place where I would grow my own food. And then going through high school, I didn't like - we didn't have a lot of money. There was a year where we didn't have like running water, our like well broke. Another year we had - like it's funny like - well it's not funny, but it's awful. But the people in Texas are melting snow now. So like to flush toilets and to do things, and that was what I had to do for like a year when I was in high school growing up. Like I didn't - I didn't have a lot. But I noticed that in Pennsylvania the people that didn't have money, that had land, they could still take care of themselves to a much greater extent than people didn't - that didn't farm or didn't have those kinds of skills could. So like my family being from New Jersey, living in the mountains of Pennsylvania and then kind of falling on hard times was much harder for us. But I would look at families that were from the area that would have much less than it seemed like we had. But they were - they were enjoying a higher standard of like living. They had heat, they had - it - so that always encouraged me to want to be more self sufficient and then when I was in the Navy, my grandpa had been in the military. So, I had been inspired to join the military. And I - I got accepted into college and couldn't pay for it. So that was my excuse to join the Navy, because my parents didn't want me to. And I loved the Navy. And I was supposed to re-enlist actually and I - on my second deployment they misdiagnosed me with like stage IV leukemia. And I didn't have leukemia, but I have a blood problem, so I have to have chemotherapy once a month for the rest of my life. And knowing that, it was - I was concerned about where I would go work, because one I love being in the military. So, I realize I had a - I had an attitude that wasn't always the easiest to work with in the civilian workplace. And also, I knew my health would be kind of funny going forward, because I had this - this health issue. I got - when I got the first farm out of the military, the farmer had lied to me about a bunch of things, including the farm being organic. And they tried to sue me for like $120,000. And I went to farming school and had like learned about like farming and that helped me be just aware of things. And I kept notes and I ended up not having to pay them any money. And they ended up paying me money, but I - after that I went to college and while I was in college I - I kept farming, but I kept having to move my animals around because I would have friends where I would keep them there, and their mom's wouldn't like that we ate them, when we ate the pigs or something like that. And it was just - it was just difficult. Like I - I had one guy doing an illegal petting zoo, while I was in college at one point. I would be off school, he would do Air B & B, send people back to go look at my animals without my permission, wouldn't escort them. So one day I'm back there, I drive up and a little girl reaching through petting my pigs. The mom had just had a litter of piglets. The girls hand is like an inch from the electric fence. So I had to move the pigs again. So the military really helped me learn just the perseverance to deal with - with these issues, and the - I mean livestock farming was always more appealing to me than - than vegetable farming. I think - I think annual vegetables have a very important role in farming. That was a farming I went to school for at the Sea Farm in Emmaus. But livestock always just kind of - there's more of a connection I had, and I like eating ham and bacon. Being a chef, doing charcuterie is like a big deal to me. So that always inspired it. And then I - I think it's very important to do things you enjoy doing. I remember planting onions in the rain once. And that never made me want to grow onions again. But when you can be there a baby piglet is born or you can - or I had people that have come out to like - to see me like butcher a pig. And they've - they've gone from like you know, when you first go about it, you - you shoot a pig. People are pretty like concerned. But by the end of it they're buying packs of ribs from me from that pig that we - they're like I can't - this is so impressive, this is so good. It gives me a lot of joy to teach people how to feed themselves. Like to - I'm working on something now where like Soul Fire Farm has a program where they build gardens for people. I would like to - for people that can have them, give them chickens, given them like two or three meat chickens that they raise throughout the year. And then at the end of the year they come out to the farm, the cage and we process their chickens. And now people know how to produce their own food to feed themselves. And after that, they can buy chickens - they get two chickens the first year and then they can - get them hooked on it. But I - I - to me helping the community and making people more self-sufficient is what really inspires me to farm. And as a veteran I just - I couldn't think of a better job that would allow me to - to have the difficulties I had with my health, and you know the - when you're a veteran you have a different personality with other people, I think. It allows me to enjoy being myself because I get to work outside, I get to work in nature, I get to work with animals.

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And I - I also have space when I need it. You know, which is I think very important. I worked in offices. I was a chef for many years at resorts and working in the 105-degree kitchen after having chemotherapy last Friday. And then you're getting yelled at because you put pepper on something and - and you know, it's just - you're like oh, I'd rather work outside and - and feed people, because on the farm people buy the animals and they move on. And the next customer, you know, so.

>> Damon Helton: That's right. And common thread - yeah, there's a common thread in all that - that passion of service and teaching people to - to sustain. And I definitely believe that that military side gives us. Sara, this one is for you. So, having a - a medical background tell - tell us a little bit about - a little bit more about that side and - and how it translated into your military and - because there's - you said something very interesting in your intro, and you were talking about the - the health benefits of food. And one of my favorite things I've always heard is you know; you can pay your farmer or you can pay your doctor. 

>> Sara Creech: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. They both will come - come knocking whether you want them or not. So yeah, I mean I think our generation has increasingly become disconnected from not only where food comes from, I mean our kids are growing up thinking that it comes from the grocery store, it's packaged, it's always perfect, pristine, beautiful. And really, I think lose the - the extra nutrition and the value of food being grown in the ground, eaten, you know with a little bit of dirt on it. And our food, when you connect food with a history of where it's been and with a story, that is how food should really be enjoyed. So you know, a lot of other cultures really celebrate eating and realize that it's not just about the physical, about feeding your body. It's about doing that socialization, building - you know being with the community. And - and really, I think an important piece is the psychological piece. You know, getting your feet on the dirt, you know? Putting your hands in the ground and then seeing the beauty of something starting from a little tiny seed, or a little baby being born and putting that care and that love into the - into the growing vat. And then being rewarded later on with the fruits of the vegetable or the fruits or the meat or the milk. These are all things that nourish our bodies, but they also you know, feed into our eco system. Like they feed into our psyche, like it's so you know, complicated, but really so easy. It's - it's called you know eating and community are like the most important things in functioning and living you know; without food you will die. And yet, we as a country have kind of separated that into like let's make it quick, let's make it easy. Like let's make it cheap. You know we have no problem spending money on TV subscriptions or you know, even going on vacations, but we look at healthy grown local food and we balk and we're like "I can't pay that much money." You know? And we really do a disservice to ourselves and to our health. You know we look at how things are grown. You know we use a lot of sprays. The methods that we use are all about making food cheap. And while affordable food is important, if we lose the nutrition in that, like you said we're going to be paying later on. It affects our health, and so we just need to reset I think as a nation on how we view food, how we view food production, how we celebrate the people that actually grow our food. And make food a priority again. So that's kind of what farming is to me. 

>> Damon Helton: Absolutely and - and like you said it's - it's not really - it might sound complicated, right? But it's - it's really amazing just you know food, not only nourishes you but it's - it's very soulful and - and I love what you said about the community and - and the importance of breaking bread, right? There's a huge piece to that, so great - great point. I've always found it fun to say when I'm you know, giving a talk to somebody, I always say it doesn't matter what side of the aisle you come down on, no matter your religion or political affiliation, we can all get behind good food and have common ground on that, right? So Eric, this one - got one for you. You mentioned about you know leadership in the military and - and how that has - has really helped you in - in your operation tell us a little bit more about how that military service has shaped or influenced your farming operation being you know international. 

>> Eric Grandon: Well, basically you know, coming up in the military I was promoted very young. I made Staff Sergeant in four years exactly and I had my first platoon when I was 23. And I was basically in charge of soldiers that were - that outranked me, had been in the military longer. But that wasn't a threat to me because I knew my job. And I think that's a huge important part is that KI believe that Justin and Sara and yourself, we're all experts in what we do. We know what you know, paying attention to detail does. It - it makes either a good product or a great product. And it's just that simple, you know the simple things we learned in the military the - you know the repetitiveness. You know you keep doing the same thing, pretty soon you can do it with your eyes closed or in the dark. And it's the same thing with farming. You know everything has got to be up to standard. Well I believe everything has to be well above standard. And that's the way we've kind of run Sugar Bottom Farm. I probably have fired everybody within a nine-mile radius. And it's hard to find people that believe in the same values that you believe in. and that's hard work and hard work pays off. Like Sara said, our generation. You know humans are the only animal that cannot feed themselves. They require somebody else growing food for them, just to survive. And that's so scary. And I think this - this Covid 19 has woken a lot of people up saying oh my gosh, where am I going to get food at when the grocery stores shut down because of sickness. You know one of the missions of our Veteran Warriors to Agriculture was to teach other people how to grow food. And that's very important. I mean you can throw seeds in the ground and watch it come up, and it - it maybe produces a fruit but is it nutritious or not? Sara spoke a lot about nutrition. You know I went to a weeklong agronomy school to learn how to grow nutritious food, you know by fixing the soil. And you know a lot of people just - they just kind of put half - half into it. And that bothers me so much. So, education is huge from us. You know we have people visit the farm all - all the time. We had about 1,100 visitors this past summer. And we teach everyone at a level that they can learn - learn at you know? And the same thing with all of our markets. We educate the - the medicinal benefits of pure raw honey versus Walmart honey, you know which may be half - half fructose corn syrup. But we produce all raw honeys, which has all the medicinal benefits. So you know I think education is going to be huge in the future because this - this - this epidemic, this pandemic I'm sorry, I think it's opened some eyes and I don't think it's going to get much better in the future. I think people are going to have to realize, hey I maybe need to be a little self sustainable myself. You know and learn this and do the back yard gardens like everybody had, you know during the - the Second World War. Everybody had a garden. And I think that's important even the - for today. You have to be able to take care of yourself and not rely on somebody so heavily that you know, without that individual you die also. So -

>> Damon Helton: That's right.

>> Eric Grandon: Yeah.

>> Damon Helton: That's right. Justin - Justin you mentioned you know in his last segment there he was talking about the people in Houston that are having to melt water to flush their toilets. 

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You know it's amazing how those things we take for granted and how that - how just that food that we - we just think we can go down to the - you know the market and grab. Tees us up for a great question and I'd like it - this - this is actually for all three of you guys. And so you know whoever wants to jump in first. How - how is your farm addressed the issues surrounding the food insecurity and specifically relating to Covid? Eric you want to jump in, you can take it here.

>> Eric Grandon: Yeah sure. Yes since I'm off mute. We have basically had to kind of change our - our marketing aspect one - one thing. Here in the country people are not so concerned about Covid, you know the masks and stuff. We all - we do have a six foot rule. But we continue our mission as - as it was. You know it - and I think by doing that we're showing people that look, this ain't going to stop what we're doing. And you know how important it is to continue and to teach others what we're doing. Again, I go back to that - like you said few - food insecurity. That's scary. You know, when people cannot take care of themselves, you know there's a lot - there's too many gadgets in the world today. And people have left old time ways in the background. They've - they've totally forgot about it. You know Sara mentioned making maple syrup, well we did molasses and we - we still use the old wood fire and you know do things the old way. And I - I told people - told people before that you know, no longer does anyone quilt, except for my mother in law. She - she quilts all the time. But my wife; nope. You know, and my daughter she will never learn. And that's sad. We're going to lose that aspect because of the drive through, you know? Everybody wants it now. Everybody wants it cheaply, but - and they're not willing to put in the extra effort to do it themselves to get exactly what they want. So I think education in itself is huge during anything like this. Because it's an eye opener and you know I'm kind of - I hate to say it this way, I'm kind of glad something did happen to - to shake a few people. Because you know it's - it's worked, because we order all of our seed from Johnny Selected Seeds, you know, non-GMO and mostly organic. And you know, you cannot buy if you're not a commercial grower right now. That tells me somebody is depleting or has depleted the seed companies, which is a great thing you know? People are starting to grow some food now. And I think in itself that's a good thing that something like this did happen. And I think just you know continued education, and I think it needs to start at the USDA, and work its way down, filter down. And I mean a lot of emphasis should be put on being United States of America, self sustaining - you know United States instead of imports. 

>> Damon Helton: Absolutely. Sara or Justin either one of you guys, the question I'll repeat it was how has the - how has your farm addressed the food security issues relating to Covid 19? 

>> Sara Creech: Well I can talk just a little bit. Really our emphasis has changed from training veterans to start their own farm, to more teaching of home steading skills. So we're talking about you know, not necessarily making a business. It's about being able to grow for your family or the community directly around you. So, you know we're doing classes on like back yard stuff, whether that's you know, in an apartment, on a side walk, in pots. You know there's a lot of food that you can actually grow in that. But then there's people that can take up their lawns and have an enormous potential for growing food. There's been such a big interest again, in backyard chickens. Not just because it's cool, now it's like okay now we actually need your eggs. Now we need to you know, get meat from our chickens. And again, like Eric was talking about you know it was huge wake up call and panic mode - moment for people when they went into the grocery stores and the shelves were bare. You know, and in other countries or even some other states you know, that's not necessarily unheard of. People are more used to that. But I know around here, like what do you mean we can't get milk today? What am I going to do? And so it - it definitely shocked people into realizing that food security is real. But I think beyond that, I think especially in the beginning, you know, any huge traumatic experience, you know similar to 9/11 it brings communities together. So I know our community - I'm in a farming community. But it's corn and soy beans. It's not stuff that really people you know, are necessarily growing their own food and so we have a lot of people that are older, and that don't have access to food and to getting out. And they're vulnerable. You know to be going to the grocery stores and so our food pantries and our churches - our local churches you know have been partnering with our local farms and getting food to the people that need it. And again, like Justin talks about you know, food and cooking food and just about you know how that was such a big thing in his family, I think it brings people back to the dinner table, especially when we're all stuck in the house. You look at you know, these websites about like how to cook and that kind of stuff, or people that are selling local produce or local foods, like in some cases you know their phone - they can't keep up with the demand. Because people are like oh, like I can make this stuff at home. And it tastes better and is cheaper than going to a restaurant, so again, it's like that reset button that you know, it hurts but it might be good for our country.

>> Damon Helton: Absolutely. Justin, what about - Justin what about you guys? How is your farm addressing the food insecurity as related to Covid?

>> Justin Butts: Well so far our farm it mainly functions as a - we have groups come out to the farm to learn about agriculture. So unfortunately once Covid started we had to basically close the farm to the public. But because we weren't having those groups come out to the farm this past year, we actually took all of the food that we were raising to - to feed them when they were here for their week long stay at the farm. We used all that to do more donations. They were actually going to get rid of their CSA Program this past year and focus on other things. And instead they did - they - the 25 people that were in the most need of food assistance, that were in their GSA program got their share for free this past year. So they - it was difficult for me having my autoimmune disease and having - I live 45 minutes outside of Albany or Troy, so I live on top of a mountain. The farm is 80 acres and then I have to go into like downtown Albany to deliver food to apartment buildings and things like that; that would be a little nervous. I would - I'm looking forward to doing more - having people actually come out to the farm and - and learn more skills, like Sara and - like Sara and Eric are talking about. Like I think - I think being outside in the country and actually learning more of just - of providing for yourself. Because when I was in culinary school, one thing that really stuck out to me was that there seems to be like an effort to make people like almost scared or repulsed by a lot of what farming is. A lot of like things that are just naturally part of life. Like new birth, and death are parts of life and if nothing dies, nothing else can - can be born. Like - so like people are like can - like think eating animals is cruelty now and it is an effort to just make people want to depend on someone else to do things. So they're the middle man and they can collect money. So I mean I think the farm is doing more to - to educate people to care for themselves now during Covid is what - what we're really reaching into and - and also just to make it so people know what to do with the food that they get. I definitely saw a lot of when we would be giving out food at like food pantries or markets, we would give food to some people and they wouldn't know what to do with it, like we were in Kingston, New York. We were giving out butternut squash and these families like they - they - some of them don't even have ovens, like - so imagine giving a butternut squash to someone that's never cooked? They don't even have a chef knife. How do you peel that?

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How do you cook that? Like so people get - it's one thing to give people food, but they don't know what to do with it, you might not - it's going to sit in their fridge and go to waste. So there needs to be more food - like just understanding what to do when you get a raw food item. Like you see people talking about want to buy chickens now. Like when I - I'm trying to sell chickens and I - I love selling things to people. But when I'm trying to sell chickens, people don't want to buy a whole chicken because they're like "What do I do with that?" They don't - they want to buy like chicken breasts or wings or things that are cut up. Take 30 seconds to cut a chicken up into like eight or 12, or however many pieces you want. You can do it less than a minute, like you have it cut up however you want it. And it's - you save money that way. And I just - I think there needs to be a much greater effort in encouraging people to do - to do for themselves or to - to find places where they can. I'm trying to work on getting like they do community gardens, they should do community like plots where you can raise a few livestock. Where you - or they should have like communities where you can have a common herd of sheep, you know? Where you - like buyer's clubs where we all have - we're all putting our money together having a herd of cows and everybody gets a share at the end of the year. I think stuff like that is things - things that we're going to be working towards. 

>> Damon Helton: Well and that's - having that military mindset, I mean that - that's - we're problem solvers, right? That's what we're trying to do is solve those problems. I'll share a little thing about what we've done on our farm regarding food insecurity last year. It really exposed for us the vulnerability of getting into the USDA processor. See we don't do custom exempt, everything we do is selling to markets and - and everything is USDA inspected for restaurants, yada, yada, yada. Well when last year hit, I mean it - normally where I could call and I could get in the process or in two to three weeks because of the volume that I did, I kind of - I was able to get in there. They're booked into 2022. So we said, you know what? Well we're going to - we're going to see if we can apply for some grants and open up our own on farm processing facility. So that's - we're actually doing on our farm. We're going to be doing a USDA processing facility, which tees up a question and you started to go into it just a second ago Justin. And I'd like for you to expound on that a little bit. So how - when you have let's just say people that you know, they have this disconnection that you know an animal has to die to eat it right? And - and so you know vegans and vegetarians, being a protein farmer I run into those guys all the time because they're afraid of these humane handling and issues like that. Talk a little bit about how - how you've overcome that and where your stance is on that. 

>> Justin Butts: That's - that's one of my favorite questions being a person that makes soap out of pigs. And -

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[ Cross talking ]
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>> Justin Butts: Well you know one thing we - people have been eating is it's part of life to eat animals. I mean you see other animals eating animals, so that's the first thing I always mention. And then when I learned about farming, you know we had - you know we have rototillers, we had a spade on the back of the tractor, we have cultivators, we have plows. When you're driving through the field, you see things running away from you when you're in the tractor, little rabbits and turtles and frogs and mice. You might kill 1,000 things every time you pass over an acre with a cultivator. And I think the people that say oh animal cruelty, they don't realize that I can - I could go eat this - I could go shoot this one pig or cow and eat for a month or two months and only one animal had to die. But how many animals died to make that field of soy beans? You know, how many animals died to get those carrots or - have you ever been to a field of lettuce? The frogs that are in a field of lettuce are incredible. And they're all going when that stuff is getting - there's a disconnect there. People never think about how many things are just dying in the annual agriculture to eat - to eat the row crop vegetables. Like so I've - to me, eating - eating actual like - eating or what is it, ruminant animals and pigs and things like that, I see less death coming from that. and it's - but it's definitely whenever anyone has come out to actually see the process, even people that - I've had vegan's come to - to my chicken processing days. By the end of the it they were like "Oh I would eat chicken." They're - they're enlightened. And I think a lot of - a lot of it - a lot of things in life that were not - we're uncomfortable with or that we - we don't like is from this lack of experience or we're like ignorant on that topic. And things that we don't understand or we don't know about, they're scary to us. So when we don't know about butchering animals so that's - that's a scary thing, that's a huge thing. But now I can - I can butcher a pig inside of an hour. I can have the big in the cooler and we're - we're putting the ribs in the smoker and everybody is excited now. So it's - I think the best way to deal with it is through education and just no t- you have to be - you have to be confident. You can't let - because I get a lot of vegans that are very sure that I am doing like the worst possible thing in the - how dare I. No, if I don't - if I don't breed these pigs, they wouldn't be here. If I don't process them so I can have more pigs next year, I will have too many pigs. If I don't make soap of them, I could easily end up with 40 pigs inside of a year that I'm just feeding. And they're not pets, like there has to be - everything is here for a reason. 

>> Damon Helton: That's right. You have - 

>> Justin Butts: You have to be logical about things. Like they're - pigs and cows and most of these animals would not be running around with people who aren't eating them. Like the wild cows and buffalos, they want nothing to do with us. We can't go up and pet them and feed them an apple. Like you can't - the dairy cow. So I think education is the best way. 

>> Damon Helton: Well that's - that's great. Because I got to tell you that's probably the best argument I've heard as far as you know what - what one animal - the - the impact of actually tilling up an acre of land. That's a great - great point. I'm going to keep that one in the back of my head. So kind of - if each one of you is well, could we talk about you know - you know our military service and you know what I've always said and what I've always felt is that we have servants hearts, and that we find that - we want to serve. Each one of you guys said in your opening statement that you know, you got into this and everyone of us are helping touch people that were giving to those who can't. That - that - that don't have. And for me, what it comes down to is - is the sweat equity, right? It's what we've got in this country. We fought for her, we bled for her, we lost friends. And so being able to give back there's - there's just - that tremendous amount of healing. And I would like for each one of you all to kind of talk about why that is the important piece for you. Or, if you even feel that way. Sara, go ahead. 

>> Sara Creech: I mean to me this is the basis and like where everything is built on my farm is the fact that nature can be a place of healing. It can be a place to find peace, but it's also about finding hope for the future. We grow things because we have belief that tomorrow is going to come, that we have something to live for, that we have someone to take care of. You know farming - farming is an extension of that military service in the same way that you know, you wanted to serve your country. Well now you're serving your country through growing food. Through education, through connecting people with nature. I can't tell you how many people come out to the farm and you know have never planted a seed or who have never picked up an animal you know besides a dog or a cat. You know, Eric does beekeeping and there's just something so magical about you know, pulling out a frame of honey and bees and seeing how these you know, thousands and thousands and thousands of bees you know, come together as a colony and work towards you know that common goal of sustaining through the winter. You know that's why they get honey, it's not for us. You know, it's to make sure that they all are cared for and protected and taken care of. And you know farming we do just that. And also I believe we have a calling. You know as the position of being a human and really being at the top of that food chain, you know we have that responsibility just like in the military to protect those around us. You know and it is not only the people, it is our land, it is our waterways, it is all these animals that yes you know we butcher, yes we eat. But during that time we are giving them such a protected and cared for life. You know I think veterans especially are very sensitive to how things are grown. They want to do things you know typically more like nature intended, you know? In a more pure form because it keeps the integrity and the health of all of that food. And all that - I mean there's just so many different layers on how veterans are you know perfectly suited for that. But then in the same way nature I think is the most perfect healer of veterans. So, it's the perfect relationship. 

>> Eric Grandon: I guess I'll go next. I wholeheartedly agree with Sara. You know we joined the military for a reason. And you know, of course it's not the college money, it's not this or that. But we wanted to serve our nation. And I think as a farmer you're doing the exact same thing. You're serving your nation. You're serving others. Because without us, you know we would - we wouldn't exist just like our military, you know? And you know, Sara mentioned my bees and they are - they're magical. You know I've been lucky enough to have been part of four documentaries in working with veterans with PTSD and the honeybees. And you know I've seen someone open a hive and begin to cry because the noise it shuts - shuts down. There is no noise anymore. You know, those of us that suffer with PTSD, there's a constant you know thought or feeling or something like that, in the bees that all goes away. And you know I said in the - you know I've been trained to kill my entire life and I give life to a plant, how magical was that? you know? It's amazing, she's exactly right. We - we actually do more for the plants, the animals than most - most traditional farmers do. We feel it's very important to take care of what we're doing in order to take care of others. And you know it's - it's huge to me to think you know that we are giving back. Sometimes - and my buddy James told you he was a Silver Star recipient. He's up for the Medal of Honor. He said it so much like we pay back to society for things that we've done in our past.

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You know? And he said he can tell if somebody is - had a rough time in the military by how hard they work. But he - but you know last year was the first year we ever made money. I said we never did this to make money. We made like $2,500 and we've lost money ever since. I - because I give stuff away you know? I see somebody in need, I just give it to him you know, and I'm talking complete hives. You know worth $1,000. I'm just giving it to someone. My wife said if I gave something else away this year, she'd shut me down. But he - it's all about taking care of people, you know serving them. Because you know what, somebody did it for us and I think that's why it's so important. They've done it for us in the past. It's our turn. You know we owe them for that. And you know I - I'll continue to think like this forever. It's not about me or - or you all. You know, Justin I love the petting zoo story. Hilarious. But you know it's not about us, it's about others and it always will be to me.

>> Damon Helton: That's right. Justin do you have anything that you'd like to add to that? 

>> Justin Butts: Yeah, for me it - it's - I wanted to be in the military. I - I used - [inaudible] when I was in high school. My mom wouldn't let me. So I used you know, not being able to pay for college as an excuse. They're like finally be like oh I'm doing it anyway. I'm going to be like grandpa. And then - then I had to get out and at 25 I was retired and everybody was like oh you're so fortunate, you get - I collected retirement as if I'd been in for 20 years. Because I medically retired. And I need chemotherapy forever. But I feel like I - I don't feel comfortable just sitting at home and collecting that. I feel like - I don't feel well all the time, but I'm a young person. And I still have a lot to - to give to the world and help other people. And like one of my favorite sayings is be the light that you want to see in the world. So like I don't - I want to show people a positive. I want somebody that may have a similar situation to like what I grew up with to - to see that there are options and you - if you're cold you can go chop down some wood. If you're hungry you can buy some chickens, you can buy - you can buy like 15 ducks for $100 dollars. Each one of those ducks could sell for $60 when they're you know, 12-13 pounds. Like you can - you can really do a lot to take care of yourself if you just have the inspiration or see somebody else doing it. So I mean that is a lot of why - of what pushes me to do it. And also you know, we're - we're - I've always been in jobs where we served people. Like I worked in a grocery store, I worked at resorts as a chef and now I farm. But also to protect something it really inspires me. So like having livestock, when I hear coyotes in the middle of the night, sometimes I get up and I get the gun and I go walk out there and look at the sheep. I go out and check that fence every day. I'm out there at 4:00 in the morning moving the chickens because I want - I want to get out there at the right time, you know? Not all the time, but like - but yeah just having something that meet - the farm is like my ship, you know? It has all these different aspects, all these things that need you to kind of you know, help the community. The ship does a lot for the things -for the spaces around it and the farm does the same kind of thing. And also I'm inspired when I - when I make soap. I had really bad eczema when I was younger and I've met people, like some people with skin conditions and things like that. and they've - I've given out a bar of soap and they've come back to me and like you know that soap, I gave it to my daughter. And it's the only thing that she can use that doesn't give her a rash. I give like 10 more bars to that. So I'm - I'm like Eric, I'm always giving out free soap and I'm always getting yelled at, "You're giving away, you just gave away $100 of soap to them." And I'm like "No, they'll come back." But just being able to help people. Being able to show people that there's a - there are products and things that you can use that are - that are locally grown and supporting your community and not putting money towards someone far away or you know, paying to ship things in and showing that we can - we can do more for ourselves. I keep going back to that, taking care of yourself. But I - it's important to help people and that's why I kind of keep doing it.

>> Damon Helton: Well that's great and - and guys unfortunately our time is up. But I can't - I can't tell you that I feel like that was just the best way for us to end that. So this is going to conclude today's Veteran's Grown Farming Panel. To each of the panelists, Justin, Eric, Sara, thank you from the bottom of my heart for your service to our nation, for the - for making the choice to work in the field of agriculture. And for your contributions to this enlightening discussion. To Karen Lloyd and the staff of the Veteran's History Project, thank you all for shedding light on this important, yet often overlooked aspect of all of our lives and for trusting me to moderate the discussion. I hope I did well. I appreciate all of you and now we'll have a few closing remarks from Ms. Karen Lloyd.

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>> Karen Lloyd: Thanks Damon. Wow, I don't know about you, but what an amazing conversation. And - and Damon mentioned servants heart, and I think you heard from each of our panelists today, Damon, Justin, Eric and Sara about the fact that they clearly have a servants heart, and you can tell by what they're doing. I am so honored that Eric, even though he doesn't have power, because of the big snow storm chose to be with us today and figured out how to make it happen. And Damon doesn't have water, but he did the same thing. And - and it's just veterans figuring out how to make it happen. And again I'm just so proud of them and for them choosing to be with us here today. I want to thank them for illuminating the benefits and challenges surrounding farming. My take away from this discussion is that the sustainable farming is something we can all benefit from, and the people in the programs who work in agricultural deserve our gratitude and support. This conversation, combined with the one we held a few weeks ago proves that no matter where you live or the size of your property, you can be a part of this growing community. In addition to the responses to your question, we've posted the web addresses for each of these organizations in the comment section. Please visit them for more information. I'd like to thank Jason and Damon for - for providing us their oral history so that we get a sense of their selfless service and I look forward to Sara and Eric's because just from their remarks today, I know that they're going to be incredible as well. As a reminder the Veteran's History Project is seeking stories and - of service from all US military veterans, the project is every veteran's opportunity to leave their imprint to enrich the historical record. By participating, they insure that history reflects their story and how their service impacted their life. Veteran's stories broaden and deepen our collective understanding of our shared history. If you're a veteran, or know one, please visit LOC.gov/vets to download a how to kit so you can have all the instructions and required forms to add a story to our archive. Our website also has a searchable veterans database, a 15 minute instructional video and resources for veterans, educators, students and scouts. Again, thank you for joining us today for Veteran Grown Farming. Take care and stay safe.

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