American Folklife Center, Library of Congress Alan Lomax Collection (AFC 2004/004) folder 02.03 writings, books Rainbow Sign transcripts, Vera Hall Reel 1 - [George Fitts, who'll cut you if you mess with him.] See also page 3&4 of [page] Reel 2 - don't [ea?k]. Reel 2. - [George Fitts cuts a man to pieces] - - [Tin cup & other Negro function] - - [Rich American - p 5 -8 [Reel 3- Mother] [*Childhood*] [-Vera, a good baby] [- Bessie, rebellious] [- Nemias, big headed. Bessie turns out to be father's plowhand.] [- [Estelle] - Bessie hurts her side playing "All hid."] How they lived 5 - Father was a rufer & a good provider -] [- page 14. Woman's work on farm.] [*p.8 Doe Reed's family*] [- directions for "All Hid."] Reel 4 - [Description of Forfeits] .. Thru page 3. [*Childhood*] [- 4. counting as children] [- 4 - 10 Description of] Old Speckled Lady. Ridin in a Buggy Rosy Baby [-11 - Mama calling us.] [- 12 - 17 The wont whipping] - Vera's two boys stay with Estelle on the farm Reel 5 - Getting Religion [- The process of her own conversion] [- page 7 ff. Baptismal dress, baptism.] [- page 10, her vision.] [- Must believe before you sees!] Reel 6 - [Sickness & death of mother-] [ Funeral service of mother -] [Estelle, [the] "mama's child."] [p7 - Father's temperament.] [- The hynogogre vision of the 3 men.] p. 11 [-Her father raining in the plantation.] Reel 7. [Her grandfather - how] he lived, how he died . . . Father likes her singing. 5-Hymns & spirituals 8 ff-How songs fit into the service. [Rev. Giles, who preached himself to death.] [Rev. Gile's vision.] Reel 8- [Rev. Giles was wild in his preaching] [-He was a good pastor.( 4-Don't get [happy] religion [at] late because you'll beo?? p the whole church over. 5-6 Mama's cousin gets religion 7-10. [The girl who just pretended her religion] ...The jack leg preacher. Reel 9-[How Bich sings] [Thought he was kin to us] -when I was a child Singing reels for white folks is okay. The Rockola on Saturdays not objected to Private parties at home- it ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it. 8-[Meeting her husband, courtship &] [marriage] [Death of her husband] Reel 10-[She always will love her husband.] [Her new man] What they sing in her choir How she picks up her tunes. Testing her facility with tunes [*How she feels when she sings*] Reel 11 - Why people sing the blues. I have no reason to be sad. - She won' t work where the folks aren't nice to her Interpretation of the spirituals. p.7. [Religion is "love!"] Conscience. [God will answer your] prayer in an hour of need. [Helps her when she is] nearly starves in Bremen Reel 12 Mama Jane, the conjur woman Difference between men & women in church. [5 - How she lost her mother] Reel 13. The Baby Jesus story. Sequences Family & childhood Mother, Vera a good baby [*Estelle 6-pg*] Sisters - Nemiras. Mother calling The worst whipping [*R.R. Bill-Text Story of George Fitts Stagolee*] Girl loves Father best _ _ Father's nature & temperament -[*reel 6*] [?] & Courtship-[Playing church?] Rich Amerson's visits & songs include his attitude toward religion- reel 8 p. 13 & 14 2) [?] Getting religion Playing church Conversion & Baptism. False conversion Vision & ecstasy [*Rev Giles Jack Leg Preacher*] [*Reel 7 first then reel 8 p 1 8 2 etc...*] 3) Marriage Loss of husband- many starves to death- New man.... Drinking.... Loss of Mother paying doctor & undertaker & Reel 6 -God will answer your prayer 4) Songs & discussion of songs Reel 7 [?] 5-10 [Games} All Hid Death of sister [Bessie?] Hard work for women [Father] How they lived - into [c ?] of Doc Reed How they dressed-story of grandfather Father's temperament-[Games & early ?] Interview with Vera Hall...Reel 1... Stories about George Fitts V: It never did worry her much...( Pause and then in a reflective whisper) But he sho was the end of her life. She never did get over it. A: But he's still walking the streets now? V: Still walk.... No he's not now. He'll be here---this is May. He'll be here the last of June. A: What does he look like? [*George Fitts appearance*] V: Well, he's a little low man. Reckon he bout as high as Miss Texas. The lady was here. Bout high as her brother. An' he's a little heavier than him. He's real heavy sot. An' his hair is mixed grey, real good, heavy mixed. Just a few black strains in it. Practically white. Roundface and good--set of teeth in his head. Small feet and small hands. He talks kinda like a woman, talks kinda fine. Doesn't talk heavy. Sohis name is George Fitts. A: Would you say he's a good looking man? V: He look pretty fair. I remagine that he used to be pretty good lookin when he was younger, but he done got ole now. He looks pretty fair now? A: What does he do for a living? [*George is a gambler & hustle -*] V: Gamble and sell whiskey and hustle roun' like that. He wouldn't have a job if you give him one. I never have known him to work, no moren the time when Mist McConnell got him outa jail one time. He's the judge down there and he was short of help out on the place. He got him outa of jail to plow. He Vera Hall - Reel 1, page 2. went out there and plowed go---od. He brought him out there Monday, Monday morning it was, cause he wouldn't get him that Saturday. He said "if I get him today he won't be there Monday." So he called up there Monday morning, told them to turn George Fitts out, so they turned him on out so he went on out there to the place and plowed.. Good worker if he will. Plowed all the week long till Saturday night. So (WITH A DELIGHTED CHUCKLE) he told Mister McConnell, said, [*George & Mr McConnell*] "I know you don't owe me noithin', said, but uh I'm goin' on to town tonight and I would like to have a little change, please suh, put in my pocket..." He said , "George, you gonna get drunk and get in a fight. You ain't gonna be here Monday to hep me." "Give you my word, cap'n, I'll be here Monday. I don't know what I might done done, but I'll be here Monday." (HOLDING BACK A PLEASED GIGGLE) "Well, I'm not gonna give you but just two dollars." "Just anything you gimme I'll thank you for it, 'cause you don't owe me nothin'." So he give him two dollars. [So] So [?]he went on to town and sho nuff he went right over there...when he passed through there late that Sunday evening he got into a fight (GIGGLE) and Mist McConnell said put him on back in jail. He can't make nothin' out of him. Say "If it just wasn't for weekends, George would be one of the best workers there was down there. It's just week ends, just mess him up. So they put him back in jail. E: Did he ever feel badly about the things that he did[?] himself? [*George just laughs*] V: If he did, he never did show it. If he be done out a man to death tonight, then you see him tomorrow he [is] just laughing and [talking] ha-hain' talking 'bout what he gonna Vera Hall, Reel 1, page 3. do next Sattidy night--"We goin' out in the country and we gonna cut some sport. We gonna boogie-woogie a while out there---" And this man was in the hospital, just sent him there. He didn't ever bring his name up if you don't say something about him. Say-well, "George, how come you cut that man so?" "Well, he [*Forget the cut man*] just kep messin' roun, foolin roun wid me till I had to do sompin nuther to get rid of him. Just mess with me that's why I cut him. So anyhow we forgit that. We talk bout somebody walkin around We ain't got time to worry wid dat feller. He'll try to get well if he can. E: That would be what he'd say? V: That's what he would say and go ahead and talk about sompin else. (A: Good gracious alive A real cold hearted man.) He [*Nothing ever worries George*] really is. [Never don't nothin' worry him] He never.. Never do nothin' worry him. He never ack like nothin' worry him 'bout what he do. He never has kilt anybody. I been knowin' him--- woo! I been knowin' him myself roun twenty years I believe.. I know I have.. An' I never heard nobody say that he killed nobody nor I haven't never known him to kill nobody... But he sho will cut' em up. An he won't carry a good knife. Anybody try to give him a good long stout knife he won't have it he [*George wont carry a good knife*] just run buy him a two bit fifty cent knife now used to be fifty cent gone two bits now E Is it like a paring knife? Vera Hall, Rell 1, page 4. V: It's a little old pocket knife. It shuts up. It close up But the blade won't be a bit longer than that (HOLD UP HER LITTLE FINGER AND MARKING OFF THE SECOND JOINT) E: Wouldn't be long enough to stick someone in the heart, would it? [*little knife*] V: Wouldn't even reach it at all. And that's the only kind that he will carry.But he's not lowed to carry one at all. But he will sometime put something like that in his pocket. E: When he stabs people does he jab at them very hard? [*How George cuts a man] V: He does like this---Way he makes those slits is straight down like that . Sometime he'll stick straight in. Then he'll do like that ( INDICATING A RIPPIMG MOTION ) With the end of his knife. That's the way he do all his cutting. Now if the man should happen to fall or somebody be parting them or pull him out of the way he just keep going just keep going like that that's the way he does an they haven't seen a man that he out and boogied up yet with a scar through here(POINTING TO THE REGION NEAR THE HEART) . he just don't intend to kill or that's what those sherrifs say. A: Where does he cut them? What parts of the body does he cut? V: He cut 'em through the stomach. He cut 'em on the back and on the arms, cut 'em on the leg and anywhere just like that. Look where the fleshiestest places at, cut there. E: Do they scream when he cuts them? V: OO! just be hollin', hollin' "Help, somebody come here please. Take George off me(GIGGLE)" ... Everybody else be hollin' when he get holt of one because (INTERRUPTION OF TELEPHONE) Vera Hall, Reel 1, page 5. [*He don't pick fights*] V: ……. He's just bad about fighting. But he don't pick no fights. Don't know of him pick a fight. But he'll sho fight if anybody bother him anyway. E: Some one comes up to him and says "Someone says this and that about you."? [*George gambles-drinks*] V: Something like that. You see, he gambles. He practically gambles all the time when he's not working or in prisoner. An' he happen to make a payday - get paid off on Saturday dinner, well, he'll come right on down here in this place they call Tin Cup where the gambling at an' he'll git him a drink before he'll go in the house where they is, get him a big glass of whiskey, drink it and he'll woof round out there in the yard while'n then he'll go in there wid his hands in his pockets, you know, [eyes] drunk, eyes half shot an'.."Get around here, you all, move, move... An' let me get down here..Throw down, man throw down..." Well, he'll just pull his money out [th] like that, just lay it down. Maybe they just puttin' two dollars around. Everybody [just] got two dollars down [and he]. He may pull out three, four dollars, maybe all he got, but he just not paying any 'tention -- "Turn the cards, man, bet 'em." Well, [?] somebody say," George you got down too much there. Them folks ain't bettin' but two dollars..." And then some of them would say, "Aw, man, you ain't in this game. You get out of this game. You ain't in it. You ain't got nothin' do with it. Let the man bet. Let the man bet." So he'll pay attention to him "Aw hell you can't do thus and so." Like that you know, and they'll start an argument and one word to another one--" I'll just take up my ---" "No you can't take it up. Vera Hall, reel 1, page 6. [*His m-in law hates him*] Say it look like putting him in prisoner won't do him no good. [Look like] Say they ought to kill him. Just kill him. Say, oo" She ain't got a bit of use for him. She's down there now. She just hate him. She nor none of her sisters don't like him. ...He don't pay them a bit of tention in the world. Don't even go to the house. (High delighted laughter) [*George never goes to church*] A: Would he ever go to church or anything like that? V: Never does. Never does, If people pass by up there where he stops at, he have no certain place to stay--he spose to be livin out in the country with his mother; he calls that home but he comes over town and sleeps on folks porches sit up out there in yard when its hot in the summer time - and people pass there goin up there to the First Baptist church go right by up there where he hang out at he holler an tell em all "You all goin' to church ain't yuh?" Yeah George you better come on and go wid us today." "Naw I won't go up there. Ask you all just give God my love. Tell him I'm still here." He's funny, you know, and everybody just laugh and say, "George, there ain't nothin' for you but torment. [You] The Lord wouldn't have you nowhere. He wouldn't have you to take the folks suitcases and carry them into heaven. He wouldn't have you to do nothin' round the gates He wouldn't have you do nothin' up there because he isn't going to have you in the path that leads into heaven." He don't never go to church. I never have known him to be in church in my life and I been knowin' him for years & years. He's just not goin' [no matter] don't care what goin' on up there. Reel 1, page 7... It's down there! "Well Nunc is showin' them --- ruther George is showing them --- we calls him Nunc sometimes --- George is showing where he can take it up. He'll take up his and then reach over there and take up some of theirs. Then he'll get up and if he got a knife, he'll back up [saide] side the house and open it --- "Now if there's anyone of you all bad now, take it! I've got mines and yours, too." So his buddy standing right behind him. "That ain't right, George, that ain't right!" They get up and say, "I'm on have my money." Well, say, "Git it!" Well, [*George starts cutting*] he start rammin' down in his pocket and he can just scrooch up against the house with the knife in his hand. "Well, some of them there may not know of him, well, they'll fly into him. Just fly into him and he'll just go to cuttin'. Just light right in on 'em and go to cuttin' … Others -- everybody -- I never seen it fail, when he starts in on one, everybody else in the house will leave. Just leave them two in there fighting till the polices come up there and get him. They just fly. Won't stay there at all. A: Looks like they'd put him under the jail, Vera. [*His mother loves for him to be in prison*] V; Well, that's what Edna's his wife mother said -- not his mother, cause she LOVE for him to be in prison. Say "he's my own chile, but I'd ruther for him to be in prison than to know that he's [l] loose." Say "He just keeps me just worried to death all the time when he comes back here free. And when they send him off I'm [hap] happier then than I ever be. Cause I know where he at. When he round here I'm just thinkin' somebody gonna kill him." So Edna's mother say she doesn't see[w] why they didn't kill that nigger. Vera Hall, reel 1, page 7. A: What do you think turned him that way? What did his mother say turned him that way? [*George was a mean, disobedient boy-*] V: Well, she say--Sis, they call her Sis--she say that he was a mighty, mighty mean disobedient boy when he was growin' up Say she always told 'em he wouldn come to no good end...Say he'd kill folks chickens and kill folks hogs. An if he wouldn't kill the hogs and he wanted some fresh meat, he cut the hogs' bofe ears off and its tail and cook it and eat it Diffunt peoples hogs when he was a little boy An he'd kill folks chickens and kill folks turkeys. She couldn't do nothin' bout it. She 'd beat him, she say until bout an inch of his life and it wouldn' do a bit of good. She'd beat him to death today and tommorrow she'D go way down in the field, choppin' and when she'd come back G. done killed two of my chickens. somebody'd be at the house tellin' her what George had done---/ George done killed my rooster..He milked my cows..She said that he was a bad boy, comin up. He'd just do anything, anything, Said he got mad at a lady bout he comin' over there and tellin' [????] bout him---that was the time he cut bofe the hog's ears off--said some of the children told it on him--he got mad with that lady---she had a fine garden---and he went in there a pulled up everyone of her greens , row by row---just pulled it up everything in there and just/laid it down on [???]---and [??????] there was his tracks--- the sherrif came this time and they carried him in there and [??] measured his feet---and there was his same foot... [*His father is dead*] His father I guess he been dead. I never knewed his father. His father wasn't there and didn't raise him. His mother raised him the best she could. She never have married anymore. I don't Vera Hall--reel 1, page 9. reckon. I never did know the father. I never heard George say anything bout his father. She'd beat him, she said she'd beat him till it look like she was gonna kill him, but it didn't do any good. .. She had another a son, older than George was, but he never was there. He never was raised up there. Somebody raised him up there in Utah, I believe, up there in Green county somewhere. And when he got grown he come off up the road here, he way off up here in the North somewhere now... He never has lived at home, he never was round George. Good thing he wasn't, cause I guess he was better than George. E: What kind of temper did his mother have? [*His mama is a sweet woman*] V: Sweet temper. Everybody say they don't know where in the world she get him from. Where he could have come from with such a mean dispositions as he had. Everybody down there say he got a sweet mother, which I know she sweet, cause I know her, she so kind and sweet and it look like she love everybody. She goes to church, well she just lovely. I don't know where she got Nunc from. He just a fair devil here on earth. Don't know where he come from and still carryin' on all that meanness. and got old now Look like he ought to reelize he's gonna die some days. His time is nearly out. If he come in here right now, he'd be jsut as happy, just laughin and tellin somw kind of funny [*George always laughing-*] joke and just full of fun all the time. Never even thinks about all those mean things that he did. .. He just walk up in a crowd and say sumpin funny call some of the men some kind of funny name. He treats everybody right, but don't fight him, don't work him up, we calls it workin' him up...(END) Vera Hall..Reel 2...Page 1. [*excerpted*] V; George will cut people up... This Doctor Hunt hadn't been long doctoring when George cut this dentist [Glaspern} Gillespie Ize telling you bout. So they rushed him up in his office. So they called him up at his house and he come down there just flying in his car. He ran up stairs and he was just laying out there on a sheet. So doctor Hunt ran in there and he looked at them & he say, "What's the matter him? Is the skin off of him? (GIGGLES) "Nawsuh, doctor, he's just out up thisaway." He was just bleeding all over. He [*Doctors don't know where to start to sew up George's victims*] was just a solid blood. The doctor didn't see a place where [he didn't see] blood want coming out of him (GIGGLING) So they just stood up there and say "Dostor, do somthing, please suh, this man is bleeding to death." So the doctor turn around and said "I declare I just don't know where to start at. Where's the wust place on him?" "I don't know." "Well I don't either." (Laughter) ...So he began to sewin', so he sewed this place up and he clamped him together--and he say "I've stopped most of the blood so I just got to go and sit down some. That man is sho cut Who cut him anyhow. Whyn youall git rid of that mqn? /... This doctor is the one went in the army and stayed a long time... Mostly the best doctor we have in L I believe. Everybody let the pneumonie kill you down there, but Doctor Hunt come to you he'll knock the pneumonia right out by giving you a shot...(material omitted) [*Tin Cup is where we go to have a good time*] Tin Cup is where they go [to] and have a good time, that's where the Rockolas and things at. They go round there and dance and eat and drink. It's just a quarter where colored people live, nothin' but colored people houses and they call it down in Vera hall reel 2, page 2... Tin cups, it's down in the bottom. They say let's go to Tin Cup E: Why call it Tin Cup? V: I asked an old man Henry Pleasant there--- that's was when mama first went to town--old man Henry Pleasant, he nuseto follow the trash wagon. So I ask him, I say, "Unca Henry, how come they call this place down in here Tin Cup? Tain't all that many Tin Cups down here." He laughed and said, "It isn't. He say, "Way yonder years ago, this used to be a trash pile, they won't no houses here. Used to all the trash wagons come down here to dump in this spot. So that's the reason they called it Tin Cup, because of all the tin cups and bottles. But, say they cleaned it up and they built houses, but they still call it down in Tin cup." They got a place called Factory Town now. It's used to be a big factory there, but it's not there now and they still call it factory town. They got a big Rockola place down there. I went down there to it two weeks ago I was there. They haves a good time down there now. Tin Cup's kinda goin' down. It Ain't much in the bloom like it was year before last and also last year. That factory Town has mostly got people now... Drink beer and whiskey and dance and play the Rockola...We eat and drink and sit around there till night... There's Factory Town, Tin Cup and German Bottom. The reason they call it German Bottom, Judge German used to live right on the hill where you go down in this bottom. All those houses down there was his. He owned those houses, back of his house. The called that German bottom. That's why they called that... Vera Hall, reel 2, page 3... Nichols Quarter, that lady, Mrs. W.S. Nichols, I worked for her eleven years. An her houses---I lived in one of her houses-- called that Nichols Quarter. ...She lost her husband, Mr. Nichols, and she tells me all the time that she's not rich any more, she doesn't have what she nuse to have. Say, she just got a livin', that's all. I stayed in her houses three years every night. She kep me up there in the house with her three years every night after Mr. Nichols died. I didn't work in the day time. Wwnt home in the morning and came back at night. She said she didn't want to be there by herself. I slep in the room where she was. She had the little twin beds. She slep on that I side and I slep over here. So they want nobody there but just me an her. ... A: Wasn't there any bad white man in the territory? Etc... V: I don't know of none. I ain't heard of nothin' any white one done. Sure haven't. Only thing the sherrif just rests people. He rests white and colored, but he don't rest nobody less they need restin. Or call him or something. But ehy good to you down there. They rightnice. George is the wust thing down there bout fightin'. He don't kill, he just cuts up folks. What do you think makes a man like that? Well I don't know. They some of them say he's got tempers. He's already mean and then he drinks whiskey and thst makes him wuss than what he would be if he didn't drink because he could think and he wouldn't do a lot of things that he do now. But he get Vera Hall reel 2, page 4 . . . [*Don't careish*] [*Fitts will do a good job on you when he starts*] [*He get*] whiskey in him and he get don't-careish. "I don't care if I do." I know just bout how he feel. He just go on and do. And he say hissef, "I know they gon put me in jail, "but I'm gon do it. I'm gon fix up a good job of it. Then I won't be worried if they put me in there." An he always says, if you have to anything like fighting, just don't touch it, just don't just shove him around. Say, just mommick him up, because you've got to go to jail anyhow. Did Rich ever get into any trouble? Not as I knows of. (Material ommitted) I asked him, I say Rich how come you sing about your Black Woman. He say, that's when his woman quit him and run off. He's just lonesome round in the field and he just holler and sing. Didn't know nothin' else to do. Had to work. So he'd just sing, because he was worried and bothered about her. When did you first get to know Rich Amerson? Well, I knowed Rich Amerson all my life. When we was just little childrens around home, he just always has come to my mother's and father's house. He didn't live there. He come there maybe an stay two or three days. But he'd leave and then we wouldn't see him any more for three or four months, wouldn't know where he was. So, first thing you know, he'd come walkin' up one evening or maybe one night. Stay two three days with us. Sleep in the house? Sometimes. If it was cold he'd sleep in the house. Real cold. He'd sleep in the house on the flo by the fire. But hot weather you Vera Hall, Reel 2, page 5. [*Rich*] couldn't get him in the house. He'd stop out in the yard under--- we had a big old mulberry tree out in the yard and a bench was on it. That's where he'd first sit down and we'd carry him some food out there and he never would get up from there where he first sit down at and we'd carry his food out there for him--milk and bread and syrup and water and then we'd light his pipe for him and carry it out there to him. He just wouldn't leave. He'd just stretch out on that bench. Lay there Maybe he'd go to sleep when he'd first get there. Walk. He never did ride. Walk for miles . . . . Well, he would work around . . . He sung.. He'd sing for white people round there. They'd pay him to sing. He maybe go help somebody go kill hogs and maybe they'd pay him or give him some meat. Whatnever he'd rather take. These people would be pulling corn, he'd help em pull corn and they'd either give him some corn or pay him the money. That's the way he'd live. But his home--he'd didn't have a house and still haven't got one I don't think. He lives under the ground. He goes down under the ground when he say he's gone home. He got a dugout under there and got seats dug around the wall. It looks like it's very comfortable, but it looks mighty hard and look like if he had it dug deep enough where he'd have a place to sit down. When you sit up there you got to brace yourself side the dirt. It's not any walls, it's just dug-out down there, but cose he said he gon put some plank there, said he wasn't thu with it. He was gonna make it comforatble for his company to sit down in. He got a hole that runon out through the dirt that let daylight in when he's not cooking. But when he cooking he got a Vera Hall, reel 2, page 6. pipe run up out there take the smoke out..He builds his fire down there, cook his sumthin to eat and that keep the room from getting full of smoke. He's got a small cot bed sitting back yonder. He's got a table there and a nail kaigin there. . . It smell of earth I don't know whom that land belong to. It's not so far off the railroad track, it's built kinda off near the edge of the woods and the railroad track run right along close. He got timbers just like I reckon you set down in the mine. . . I haven't been down in the mine, but that's what he said. . . Lily Polk stays down there with him. She's another walker. She walks from there--- they between York and Livingston, it's five miles each--- and she just goes to the sto five miles a day and comes back and cook. If she go to York today she'll go to Livingstone tommorrow. But she staysdown there with him. . . Got a nice garden outside. . . That wagon he made is just outa planks. It got a floor in it. Have you ever seen a wagon bed, well, it made like that but it got wheels on it. It's about that high, I reckon, (INDICATING TWO AND A HALF FEET OFF THE GROUND) He got two holes cut at the end of these planks in the wagon bed where he puts his foot down through there and it two of some kind of levers that works like a car crank. . Ther is a foot thing there that looks like a car crank on either side and he puts his foot on that and that turns the wheels and he gets in it and rides from Livingston to York anytime he wants to. He got a top on it for the rain. He haven't James Harrison Piper Alcom College Alcom, Miss. Vera Hall, reel 2, page 7. got any sides in it, but he got a top across .. And the white people just look at it, just stop him all along the side of the road, looking at that thing, wanting to know how it go 'long. He's just goin' on along, singing, he singing all the time. Sho do. Makes up his own song. What all he don't sing. As fur as I can remember, all I sing that's real, old come from him... He'd come there and go to sleep and sleep till late and then he'd wake up and eat him sumthing to eat and then he'd be ready then for talking to us and singing to us... It would be early. If he'd get there early in the evening, he'd lay down and stretch out on that bench and go to sleep. Well, he'd sleep till mama come out the field and cook. And after she'd cook supper, get it about ready, he'd wake up, and she'd tell him come on we're fixin for supper. He'd tell her the children bring sumpthin to him. So she'd fix it out a plate and we'd bring it our there to him. On the bench where he was and he'd eat and drink water and light his pipe. Then he's ready then for sing and talk, carrying a lot of foolishness stuff way over in the night He'd keep us sittin up till leven o'clock--sumpinwe don't never do lessen he come up there sit up that late. But he just carried on so much fun, we jst sit up there and be laughin at him. He just funny. He can dance. He lets his hair grow. I bet his hair about that long. Sticking straight up on his head. He got a big old round face and kinda large eyes. He got pretty fair teeth yet. NiceNice white teeth. Vera Hall, reel 2, page 8 . . . But he just won't cut his hair for nothin'. Some time he plat it and then again he comb it and let it standup. He had it wrapped all summer before last. He says it makes him strong to wear his hair long that way . . . Lots of mens ask him, "Say, Rich, what fault you find getting a hair cut man?" I don't want narun. My hair ain't botherin' me. Is it botherin' you?" "I just don't want to see you that way." Well, you don't have to look at me." They just think he's funny. He's got good sense. He just stays in that attitude all the time. He always got sumpin funny to say. No matter who say anything he got something funny to anser. How he think it I don't know. He's a sight. I reckon he's down there side the track. . . right today-- What month was Jesus born in? Last month in the year. What month was Jesus born in? Last month in the year. Oo--Lawd, you got January, February, March O Lawd, You got April, May and June, Lawd, You got the July, August, September, October and -uh November, You got twenty-fifth day of December, It's the las' month in the year. He's born in an ox of manger, Last month in the year. He's boen in the ox of manger, Last mont in the year, Chorus. Vera Hall, Reel 2, songs... Stagolee pulled out his 44 It went bum-bum-bum, It weren't long fo Billo Lyon Were layin on the flo... Stagolee's women walks up tho the bossman Says. 'Please gimme some change They got my baby in the station-house And my bus'ness mus be ranged.... Stagolee ast his woman, Say's, "How much change [h] is you got? She runned her hand in her stockin feet And she pulled out a hund'ud spott... Stagolee, Stagolee, He must have been a sinner Every Christmas day They would give Stagolee a dinner. Vera Hall, Reel 2 of songs . . . Vera, what does that mean--- RR Bill was a mighty big fool, Couldn tell his track from a horse or mule? V: Well, Rich Amerson said it mean that he just soon to lope on his feet as to ride and he'll catch mule , cow, horse, ox, train just anything be passin. Can't make no track that RR Bill went thisaway, cause he liable to catch anything and he just sung that about him. (Quotes verse) That means that he'll likely just to catch anything to ride, just likely to run, do anything just to get awy from wherehe is from place to place. . . Well, was he kinda of a magic man with tricks and things like that? Did Rich Tell? V: Well, he didn't say, but he said he was a bad man. He would do anything, anything that was mean and bad, RR Bill would do it and and if he went anywhere in the world and you had to go that way-- that's why that he sung about RR gone around that curve, If you go around there you better raise your nerves. . . because he gon start sumpin no sonner'n he see you. He was just that kinda man. Vera Hall, reel 2, songs. . . Well, did they ever catch RR Bill or not? Did Rich say? He didn't. He didn't say. Was he colored or white. Rich say he was colored, because I remember astin him long ago was he a white man or a colored man and he said RR Bill was a colored man. A: How about Stagolee? Which was he? White or colored? V: He was colored, he said. A: Where did he live. V: He live-- I don't know sir where he live. . . I never did see him. It was just a song that Rick Amerson sung bout him all de time. Sung about Stagolee. He know about him. . . (sings) Don't you remember, you remember, One dark and stormy night, Stagolee and Billo Lyons They had that noble fight. Bad man, Stagolee, Wasn he bad he had witha gun. . . Billo Lyon told Stagolee, Please don't take my life, I go three little childrens And a loving little wife. . . Stagolee told Billo Lyons, I don't care for your three little childrens Either your loving wife You done stole-a my Steson hat And I'm bound to take your life. Vera Hall, reel3, page 1. King Jesus is the solidx rock, [*2*] And don't you see Way up between the heaven and the earth, Think I heard my saviour says, And don't you see.... My mother used to sing that all the time, all the time... Specilly when she was cooking or washing or something... Thqt was one of her favorite songs.. A home in the rock... [*Mother says*] She says that her mother used to sing it... I used to ask her where it was from and she'd say "I don't know where my people get it from. My mother used to sing it when we's little and I still remembers it. I know I don't know it all. It 's just so old. I just sings what I know because I love it." She used to sing it all the time and so did I... That's mean that she's got religion and when she die she's goin to heaven. SHE REPEATS THE WORDS ) That means that I'm going to have a home when I die, going to have rest, going to heaven when I die... A: How old were you when you first remember a song? V: When I start to payin attention to what a song was when somebody was singing it was around nearly eight years old I believe because I can't hardly remember my life long in five, fo and all like that I can't remember anything. Don't remember nothin what went on--what I heerd the people say--say we used to play this and used to do this back when we was children-- I'd hear the grown peoples talkin that but I couldn't remember nothin' back... A: What did your mama say? What kind of a little baby did she say you were? Vera Hall, reel 3, page 2... V: She said I was awfully good. She said I was mostly one of--- she never did own but just three childrens--well she owned four--the the boy--- she had three girls and one boy--but [*Vera - a good baby*] the boy just died a tiny baby-- and uh she said that me I was one of the best babies she ever had-- she could nurse me and lay me down on the bed and go out and wash a great big bundle of clothes and if she don't mind I'd sleep [sleep] and she come back and peepxx at me I'd still sleep--she'd go and even cook her dinner . When they was choppin in the field, she'd nurse me real good fo she go to the field. She'd go to the field and stay till leven o'clock and I sometime I'd done be waked up, but I'd just be lyin' there on the bed playin' . She said I was a rale good baby and also a good chile in my growin' up because I had sister, she'd run off , she'd give papa and em trouble to try to fin her mos every day they'd come out the field wouldn't know where she was night comin' on and so xx it kep on till other people would watch her fur em and tell em where she at or tell em which way she went. She wouldn't leave out of the neighborhood, but she'd [*Older sister, rebellious .*] just be gone from home. x just be missin'. She'd do it all the time. Mama always said that she was bad, butI think she grew out of it after she grew up bigger. She quitx it when she got around twelve or leven years old. She quit botherin' mama and them so like that. But I8d always stay anywhere they leave me. If they tell me to stay home and go clean to town--town was ten milesxx from our home, well, I'd stay there. They Vera Hall, reel 3, page 3. tell me to sit on the porch I'd sit there. If it rained, I'd sit there. If it snowed I'd sit there. I'd just stay where they told me to stay. So they all give me that name. of being a good xxxxchild. Mama always did say I was obedient and she xxxxxx never did worry about me after I got grown. She said, "I don't worry Bout Vera because she's not goin in those bad xxx places where those people get killed, and get cut. Says I'm not worried about her one bit. xxxx I'm mo worried about the others than I am her. I could trust her and leaveher anywhere because she's gon stay there. A: Were you the youngest, Vera? V: I'm the youngest. Sho is. A: Names: V: Well, my little brother what died. My mother say he was named Nemiasx Hall. He was oldrn me. I'm nex tuh him. But he died I never did see him. An mama said that he just lived to be a settin' xxxx lonely baby [?] and he died. Said, he never did look just right when he was born, he had a great big head, and mama told us bout him. Said when he got to sittin' lonely on the flo his head was so big till it look like it would just turn him ove like that, which it would pull him over. And she said it was so fur out in the country, they never did have a doctor wid him, but he didn'8d pear to be sick. He just had a great big water headx and his body was kinda small. He was like that, she said. Sit him down on the floor and his head would just tumble him right over. But he would eat and he had plenty life in him so they said that worms killed him, said that worms choked him overnight. Vera Hall reel 3, page 4, A: Then older than he, what was the next child? V: Her name was Estelle Hall. Called her Estelle. Well, her name was Estelle, called her D-l. A: Why was that? D-l, what did that mean? V: Well, I don't know, sir, That's just what they called her.. (Material omitted) Estelle is five years older than me. Bessie , she's the2very oldest one. She's seven years older than me. I think two years and six months or something like that older than Estelle/ En-uh then this Nemiss came along, after Estelle was born, he's between me an Estlee. And I came along last. A: Well, what did folks say? Were they sorry or glad they didn'T have a boy? V: Well, uh, my father always wanted a boy. But my mama, she said, if she could have the-- say well, she didn't know what was gonna happen to him after he grew up anyway --might a been foolish--might-a never had no sense--might a not could have ever talked--and she'd a had sompin like that on her hands-- said reckon the Lord knowed best to takex him-- an pap say. I heard him say a lot of times "Wish my boy had-a lived. Said I got all these old gals , cose they all right, they all my children, but I just want me a boy go to the field with me, hep me plow-- these gals can't plow--" So he did make a plow hand outa my oldest sister Bessie--she plow-- [?] he used to side cotton and she'd split middles behind him-- she learnt how to do it good. But my mama she didN'T care, I don't believe she cared if that boy died. She [?] said [*Father*] Vera Hall, reel3, page five... she'd like a boy with sense, made right, not disfiggered. She was sorta glad ,she said, the Lord took him while he was little fo she got so devoted to him. A: Your father,did he own his own land or did he rent ? V: He rented . He did not. A: Did he stay the same place most of the time? V: He stayedon the same place---I don't ever remember him movin' but twice in my life--an uh the first time he moved-- [?] his boss man where he was livin he died-- sumpin happened to him and he got real sick and died and cose his wife told him he wouldn't have to go-- just like he's been doin all the timexx, [he?] knowed, he'd been there for years, and to do on, but "I ruther" he didn't want to fool with her he said-- he didn't believe he want to fool with her becaus she wouldn't know nothin' bout the field and wouldn't know nothin' bout waht was goin on and what they was makin-- she just maybe expect him to just bring in all he made-- an uh he said he blieve he wouldn't fool wid her--and so he moved from there and moved down on another place and it wasn't all that far, but it was about six miles-- I reckon or seven [?] where we moved to and so he stayed there yes, he did, I believe he stayed there until he died--- Oo! he kived there for years and years. We all got grown and married offa that place there. Sure did. A: Was he a good father to you all? V: He sure was. He really did. He walways kep plenty for us to eat.He couldn't give us no clothes hardly. x We had very few clothes, but we had plenty to eat. Fall of the year he would Vera Hall--reel 3, page 6. buy us shoes and clothes--we didn't have any shoes through the summer. But uh when it commence gettin' cold and ginnin' cotton he would buy us shoes--winter shoes and buy us a whole big bolt of homespun clothes and mam'd make us all dresses out of that and make herself one too. And then we wouldn't have anything else new till next fall, Mama would sell a few eggs and chickens sometimes to get kerosene and soap and starch and stuff like that, but we always had plenty to eat. He raised plenty hogs corn, potatoes, syrups, peanuts, peas--he raise plenty of that, we had lots to eat. We just didn't have any clothes hardly. A; Would you wear that one homespun dress all year around or would you have two or three? V: Well, the new one I would say hit to wear on Sunday and those old clothes that we been had we'd wear them all the week. You know, we buy A: What color was your dress, generally? V: It was blue, well, the grounds of itxx wAS KINDA light greyish blue and it had green stripes and white stripes and red stripes in it. Call it homespun. We'd save the new dresses to put on on Sunday. And wear our old raggedy clothes all the week. An we'd save our shoes. We wouldn't wear em none in the summer time. If We'd go to church, we'd go to church barefooted. All the other children would be barefooted. So we wouldn't wear no shoes to church. No time when it was hot. Go barefooted. A: You sound like that hurt your feelings mighty bad, not to have a bit better clothes?--- Vera Hall, reel 3, page 7. Were you ashemed on account of it? V: No , it didn't bother me the least bit then at that time, because twas so many of us there like that. We dressed like that. We was happy. We was just all right. They didn't look no better than we did. And we didn't look no better than them. So when we come out we all looked alike practically, maybe different colors in our dresses, but it was the same thing. So nosir, we wasn't sorry or sad at all, we was always happy. A: I guess there were some people around there that didn't have plenty to eat? V: Lots of em round there didn't hardly have not anything to eat. Not nothin at all. They used to come to my father and other peoples that raised a plenty like he did and get buckets of syrup and pieces of meat and chop fur us when choppin time come around to pay fur it . He used to let a many a people have meat, syrup, bushels of potatoes, things like that long in now (MAY) and when they'dstart choppin they come over in his field and pay him for it by heppin us chop. My father raised a big crop and he didn't have much help, but he'd put in a lots because he'd let people have so much things to eat and his field would be just full of hands, payin him back. Cause they didn't have any money to buy and he said he was glad to do that. Cose he needed them. A: How did it happen that he'd raise all this stuff and the othe ones couldn't do it? V: They could do it if they was smart enough or had sense enough. They had the same land, the same priviledge and everything. Vera Hall, reel 3, page 8. a lots of people would plant the stuff and wouldn't work it, wouldn't plow it. If they did, they'd half plow it. Well, it wouldn't make nothin' much. ..I know a man down [*Doc Reed's father*] there, Doc Reed's father, Henry Reed, now he's been in that one spot where he's livin' now, ever since--way before I married when I was just about foteen or fifteen years old when I knew where they was living at and he's still living there. The old house has done fell down . He's just livin in a corner. He jist jist there. He keep patchin' it up to stay there, I reckon. Now he doesn't raise a basket-- I don't know whether you ssen a basket, a cotton basket-- he doesn't raise that much corn, no years, never have. An cotton , he don't raise enough cotton to pick . He may go down there and pick, may get one or two sacks full of cotton. Don't bit mo set out a potatoe or plant a cane seeds to make syrups nor nothin' like that. He don't do nothin' like that and he had nine childrens. - was with him, fo his folks died out and everything. He had nine little children to raise. And those children would be from one place to the other one all summer tryin' to get a chance to chop in somebody's field to get some syrup or somepiece of meat. A: Wouldn't the folks talk to him bout this? V: AEverybody talked to him, but he -he just a man--- he believe's in a blacksmith-- he tried to run a blacksmith shop ---had a little sumpin built out in front of his do and he sit up in there. Well, he could make baskets and could bottom chairs, he could do that kinda work. And put shoes on hosses and things like that. But he had a sleeping Vera Hall, reel 3, page 10 disease that followed him all his life they said. My mother say he always have slep. When he was cotin' his wife, he married her outa my father's family--me an Doc is kin-- an he said he nuse to come over there at night when he was cotin her and he would no mo than tell em good evenin fo he was sleep. Says they jis didn't know what was the matter with him, just been thataway all his life.He would go out in that shop in the mawin' and gonna gon make sumpin and lay all his tools down there and start his blower---they got sumpin they blows to beat out iron on, I don't know what it is-- and he'd sit there and maybe light that fire off there and he'd sit right up there and sleep till nearly leven o'clock, just sittin up there in the chair, haven't did one thing and half o de day'S gone. Some of the children might rouse him up out there. And He'd get up and go to hammerin' . He might bottom a whole cheer before he'd go back to sleep agin, but he'd sleep the bigges part of the evenin'. Well, you take little children , round eight nine ten years old maybe on up to twelve, they ain't gon do nothin' in the field lessen some grown passon there to make em work. Now all those children suppose to be in the field choppin or mabe pickin cotton, but they just down there playin. There's nobody down there to make em do nothin'. They won't pick up a half a basket of cotton all day long. ALL THIS IS TOLD WITH REAL TRAGEDY IN HER VOICE. UNUTTERABLE WEARINESS AND HOPELESSNESS...SO he just never did make nothin' and Doc he's a triflin' farmer too. He don't do so good in the field. But he always was kinda lucky , somehow, Some white Vera Hall reel 3, page 11... people down there would always be giving Doc something (There is an edge of scorn on her voice here) Or havin' him do sumpin round the house and they'd pay him the money and he always could eat. He got out from his father. As soon as he got up some size, he just left there. He said that he just--- just wasn't enough to eat there-- and he'd ruther for his little sisters to have his part. He'd get out and try to hustle round for himself, which he did. So now he's got a wife and he's got a farm. He live on the highway goin' out toward's pRaker Place, and his wife carries the farm on. She's smart, she's real smart. She plows and she chops her own potatoes. Doc hauls wood to town twice a week and that's all he do. You know, he lost his leg recently. They took his leg off. He's got artificial leg now and foot. So all he do now is cut and haul wood to town and sell that. Makes two and three dollars a week doing that. Some time he make three dollars, cause he sells his woods a dollar a load. Git a chance to carry two loads or three loads he'll make three dollars. How could a man like that, have a tough comin' up like that, how could he believe that the Lord was so good to him? Well, he said andI said so too he said he believed that the Lord has made a way for him, he has made it and he believed he's still makin it for him to live because he nuse to didn't have what he's got now. He nuse to didn't even have food to eat and he do have food every day now. And he nuse to didn't have it. He say the Lord made the way for him to get that. He opened up the way for him to come in wid two mules. Vera Hall, reel 3, page 12. Mister Cameron Nixon or some of them over there, let him have two mules to haul this wood with and doesn't have to pay em for nusin the mules. It's Doc's own wagon but it's mister Nixon and them's mules . He said that and I said so too that the Lord is just with you Doc, bless you. You do know where you gonna get your food from every day . And he say Yeah and that's one thing to be thankful for. I say it certainly is. Say an I know the Lord did that cause he know Ize doin' the best I could in every way that I could So he just fized it so that I could have food every day and know that I was gonna have it. So he's gettin long all right now. He's got mo clothes than he used to have. Mister Tarrt have give him two three suits and those other families givin him suits. He got a right smart of clothes now and shoes, too, people given him. So he's getting along all right. A: What about your family? What's come of your sisters? [V: What about your family] V: My oldest sister, bessie, she died. She was about twenty sven [*Bessie's FAtal Accident*] when she died. Or thirty one. She married. She didn't live so long after she married because her health got bad and then she fell. She had a mighty, mighty, drefful fall. Just the sameyear that she married. She was playin' "all hid" one night in our yard there. We had a big yard. And my father had cut down some trees tound the corner of the house and left some old stumps of the trees still there. So the moon was shining brightand the yard was full of children. We was playing all round the house . And she come running round this side of the house, making Vera Hall, reel 3, page 13 it round here to get her hunderds and she fell on that stump. Um-um, I hate to think about it. She fell over that stump and she hollered and so we run there, mama and papa and some mo grown people, sittin up on the porch, they jumped up and come on round there and she just said "O I'm just nearly dead.Just like I done broke my hip." That's what she said. We couldn't find a bruised place on her nowhere. Just tore her clothes off trying and couldn't find anything to find where she hurt /, but blood came out of her mouth. Don't know why? and so they didn't even have a doctor with her.Just a little blood come out of her mouth. When she talked, you could see blood in her mouth and my mama got a rag and wiped her mouth out. Wet the rag and wiped her mouth out. Thought she had busted her lip or bit her tongue, but it wont nothing like that. The blood come out of her stomach some way. So it didn't bleed any mo through the night. So the next mornin' she couldn't hardly walk. Just kinda drug that side. But mother rubbed her down in some kerosene and some grease real down real good and let her lie roun all day. So the next day she's feelin' purty good, They never did have a doctor with her. We was so fur out there in the country I reckon my father--- cost eight dollars for the doctor to come out there--well, 'scusin' the medicine he might bring. I reckon that might-a stopped my father, I don't know, but I know they didn't have a doctor. My sister was pretty close to twenty five I believe . She married at the age of twenty five I think my mother said Vera Hall, reel 3, page 14. But she was a grown young lady when she was playing, because if I'm not mistaken, she was married in that same year, a long about the last of that year round Christmas time, she married I think. She was a grown young lady. But she never did say anymo about that hip botherin' her no mo until after she was married about three years and then she would get to the place that she would get down and she couldn't hardly get up. And finly she got to the place till she couldn't hardly nuse that that leg wjust went palyzed like on her. She wasn't much count after she married. She work purty hard after she got married. Cose she worked hard at home but she worked harder after she got married. She still worked in the field. She had more to do after she got married cause we'd all do the washin If one 'd wash the other'n 'd i'on. If one had to go to the field the other 'n there would wash. So after she married, she had to wash ion and cook and do evthing hersef. And my mother said she believed the reason her leg start to failin on her she just had so much work to do. Woman has a terrible lot to do on the farm! Oo! Think she has more to do than a man does? I know she does. Because he only has one thing to do and that's get up and wait for his breakfast and sit down and eat his breakfast and go on out and catch his mules and go on to the field and hitch up and go to plowing'. Plow till twelve o'clock, feed his mules, and sit down under a tree Vera Hall, reel 3, page 15. out there or lay down or sumpin on a bench till dinner's ready. Well, now there the wife's done went down there and chopped till leven o'clock and she come home, bring a turn of wood on out the field wid her, got to keep on by the garden somewhere , got to get some greens and then she just steady goin all the while she's there. When she get dinner ready and they eat dinner well it's nearly time to go back out to the field-- now he done rested all that time. They have lots to do. Now what about the afternoon ? What does the woman--- Go back to the field. Go right on back out with him. Stay out tillnearly dark, don't stay until real dark, he plows until dark, too dark to see, but she come out before that time because she have to cook supper and have to milk the cow, pull up weeds and things for the hogs, things like that. She has to come out befo nightget a chance to do all that. And then she got to cook supper? Got to cook supper. Wash the dishes... (INTERRUPTION OF TELEPHONE) RESUMED BY ASKING THE NAME OF THE GAME SISTER WAS PLAYING... Is it all hid? No no. Is it all hid? No no. Way down yonder in jaybird town Niggers had-a work till the sun go down. Is it all hid. Hundud and eighty five, hundud and ten, Hundud and eight five, the old black hen. All hid. Cornbread rough, cornbread tough Niggers down yonder don't never get enough. Vera Hall, reel 3, page 16. All hid? Yes... The children would be hiding about and the one that is counting. After they say Yeah, they all hid, well I back way out yonder I'm peepin' tryin to see where they at and they peepin, they watchin me, and I don't see nobody on this side thehouse--- I ain't gon git far from this base cause if I beat 'em back here they ain't got no hundud, but if they beat me there they got they hundud . They ain't never told me what the hundud was ,That's just the play. They can hide out and catch me way from this base and get it and hold it well they got they hundud and they go out there somewhere and lay out and cool off, we call it. But I ain gon git fuhAnd if I hear a noise or anything I break right back to this base... Vera Hall, Reel 4, page 1. . . About childhood, game songs, sister Estelle, etc. . . (Begins in the middle of the description of a game) Vera: I say--Fine, superfine," Say--"What shall this lady do that redeems this pawn?" I say--"Is she lady or a man?" Say--"She is a lady." I say--"She shall get out there and call her somebody she likes well and walk with 'em a time or two (We'd give them something hard to de because we know they didn't want to do it.) and then offer them a sweet kiss right here in front of me.". . And Lord, they'd just nearly die. They'd rather do any- thing in this world than to offer a boy a kiss. But I said it and they have to do what I say or anybody should be sittin' in that chair. And so. . . A: They really liked it a little bit, didn't they? V: (Giggling) They ack like they didn't but they loved to play it. They didn't (giggling) they didn't want to offer a boy a kiss, they'd rather for the boy to ask them for a kiss. So they said, "I don't think you oughta tell us about that." I say, "Well, "--- a heap of time my sister, my older sister ud be settin there--- She say, "Well, you got to do whatever they say do." "Yeah we gon do it." Say, "Now, if you can't do it, you can't play." Say, "We want to play." Say, "Well, you got to do everything I or---" . . . So, well, they maybe hang up another one--say--"Heavy, heavy, Vera Hall, reel 4, page 2. . . hang over your head." Say, "Fine, superfine." Say, "What shall this gentleman do to redeem this pawn?" Say, "Well, he shall get out there and take him a lady and walk three four steps wid her and talk coteship to her. . . There. . . Hurry up!" So he'd go an call him somebody, and they'd walk from up here at the edge of the yard--my mother had a big yard--they'd walk about middleways down there and on they way back--I'm lookin' at em, you know, I'm the one sittin in the chair waitin on these coteship words. So I'm lookin at um. Say, well, say, "If you had a hancherku and it was wet-- a wet handcherku-- say, if I and you was in love with each other and you had a han- cherku that was wet and you would ball that handkerchu up and put it in the corner if your trunk--just put it there-- how would you think it would dry?" She'd be just bitin her fingernails--that's what he'd ask her-- she'd be just bitin her finger--"I don know." He say, "Aw there's some way in the world that handkerchu would dry." Say "How would that handkerchu dry." Say, "I don knowhow it would dry." He say, "Aw now we nearly to the score. We gon have to stop in a few minutes. Tell me how that handkerchu would dry." She say, "By love." He say, "That's right." So we all slap out hands and so(laughing) they'd come on in then and set down(laughing. But the hardest one that a boy ast me--I don't know whe- ther it was coteship words or a riddle--I often thought about that-- an old boy was name Dudley--so I don't know what his last Vera Hall, reel 4, page3. . . was--- he was the first boy courted me, too, tried to court, when I thought about courtin--Old Dudley something--he was kind of ugly--so theyput me and him out because they knowed we wanted to be together, to walk together--So (Laughter) Dudley called me, so we was wa--- sp---"What shall this gentleman do to redeem this pawn?" Say, "He shall get him a lady and walk about three four steps with her an talk about two three words-- a few words of coteship---" So I didn't say anything because I know I didn't have to puzzle around tryin to talk it. So we'S walkin, we's walkin, walked on down to bout the middle of the yard, turn around, comin back on our way back. Say, "If you had a goose and a bear and a peck of corn and you was on this side of the river and you had to cross and you couldn't carry but one of these things acrost at the time, well, now, if you leave the bear over there with the goose, he'll eat him up. And if you leave the corn over there with the goose, the goose will eat up the corn. So how would you get all these cross the river?" So I studied, I studied. We had almost wAlked up to the one sittin in the chair (Material ommitted having to do with her solution of the riddle. She does solve it.) So we had to stand up there a few minutes, but I got it out. (Laughing long and sweetly). A: Did youall tell riddles? V: Sometimes we did. We told riddles. I always did believe that was a riddle. I believe it was something like that. A: About what time did Dudley start courtship? V: Well, he --see, we all went to school together in practically Vera Hall, reel 4, page4. . . the same age. He used to tote my books from school. He used to come over to our house every Sunday evening, late in the evening. . . A: How old were you then? V: I was about--- around thirteen -- thirteen or fourteen, something like that. And he was, too. He was round the same age. We call ourselves cotein for a long time. But I didn marry him. I went off; I went from round him; I got from round him and didn't see him when I got up really to where I was supposed to be cotein. I wasn where he was. A: How would he cote you exactly? V: He'd sit down by me when he wasn playin and just all sittin around, sittin about, he'd always sit by me. And so we'd talk and sometime we'd go pick berries, bout three or four or six couples of us would go down cross the paster and pick berries. Well, I wouldn have to pick berries-- anybody that had a boy friend wouldn have to pick any berries-- anybody that have a boy friend didn have to pick any berries cause he'd go out and pick em all, leave us sittin down on the roadside--they'd take our buckets and go pick berries and then bring um back to us-- Then hed tote my books and anything. We go to tie up the cows and he see us, well, he'd come and let me stand in the road and he'd go down through the weeds and tie the cow fur me. He'd that for me. Everything he could do outside, he would do it. A: Would you all have any love songs that you sung in those days? You were already a singer, I guess. [*Reel 4, page 4.1*] V: I did. I always did sing, sing the play songs that we played. Something like "Young Speckled Lady" and "Did you Go to the College"--- they'd always want me to sing it or say it, when it was something have to be led, they want me to say it. A: What are these songs you were just talking about? V: Young Speckled Lady. Well, we'd ring up all in a ring, ketch hold of hands and I'd start singin, well, we'd start skippin... There's a young speckled lady, Shool-do, She's just from the country, Shool-do, Golden needle and a brass-eyed thimble. O Miss Matty Fly Way over yonder. You, too, Miss Sady, You, too, Miss Mattie... We'd play like that and when I'd call those names of those children, they'd fly from this side to that one. They'd be just flyin when I called em like that. Everybody would say "Shool-do" and I would give out the words. We'd play that for a long time and then we'd play--"Ridin in the buggy". I did love that song, I used to do. I'm ridin in a buggy, O yes, o yes, It's a golden bright buggy, O yes oyes. Stop still and let me tell you, Now choose you two partners. And I wants a good rappin Vera Hall, rell 4, page 5... Chorus: O candy, Candy gal, Swing um in a hurry, Candy gal, Swing um in a hurry, Candy gal, I bought her Candy gal, I bought her Candy gal. Then we'd ring right back up. I'm ridin' in a buggy, O yes, o yes, It's a golden bright buggy, O yes, yes. Stop still and lemme tell you, Now choose you two pardners... And I wants a good rappin... O candy, Candy gal, O candy , Candy gal, Swing um in a hurry, Candy gal, Swing um in a hurry, Candy gal... A: How would you play that? V: Be rung up. We'd ring up in the same ring we played speckled lady in. But when I say "stop still and lemme tell you" we all up stop an drop hands. An I say--Now choose you two parnders-- somebody step out the ring and get two girls or maybe one girl and a boy--They say--O yes O yes--. And I'd tell the rest of um say "Now I wants a good rappin." Then we start...(She sings chorus.) We'd be swingin um. Ring right back up... A: And they qould be marchin while you were singing "ridin in a buggy". V: That's right. Vera Hall, [r] reel 4, page 6... A: Movin' slow and easy. V: That's right. A: Which way would they be movin? From right to left or left to right. V: (Without hesitation) Goes right. Go this way(showing me her right hand) all the time. Move right. (Counterclockwise) A: That's a beautiful song... What's that one about goin to college? V: I done most forgot it.. Just a minute now. It might come to me. (She begins to sing)... (Little girl, little girl. Yes mam. Did you go to college? Yes mam. Did you see my dautghter? Yes mam, Did you see my daughter? Yes mam. Was she neat in the wais'? Was she sweet in the face. O how did [she lie?] you lie? (twice) Go ver' well. Did the old cow die? Did the old cow die? Did the buzzard fly? Did the buzzard fly? How did they fly? O just so. (twice) (She imitated bird's flight with arms) We be mockin with our hands. Vera Hall, reel 4, page 8, A: Would there be any movement before the buzzard fly? V: That's right. We were still goin around, but we're goin very slow. Just walkin hands in hands. Then we get to the buzzard fly everybody stopped and do just like that. The old lady is the one ask, "Did the old cow die?" And we say "Yes, mam." (VERA THEN GOES THROUGH SONG FRM THIS PT. TO END) Like that. A: Now those were games that you played when you first begin to courtin? V: Games that I played them before I retched that age because I had been playin um all my life. We played Rosy Baby, too. I remember that. My oldest sister, Bessie, she used to pat for that. She could pa--at, goodnight, she was big and stout, always has beenbig and stout and she co uld pat for Rosy Baby. They'd get her to pat it and get me to sing it and so we'd stand together. A: How would you pat it? V: You know you could hear the sound of her feet just as well as her hands. And none of the rest of them --- they could do it but not loud enough for you to hear. And she could. I don't know how she done it. I never could do it myself. [But she cou] A: What would you be playin for Rosy Baby? Would you be swingin? V: Dancin. Well, there's about three or fou stand up to this end of the yard and three four stand up there. And you'd have--- it's stealin partners, too---and you'd have to--one of these up here would have to dance down yonder where those standin-- and get one of them and then dance and swing all the way back up here Vera Hall, reel 4, page 9... where he belong. And he stealin' pardners from down there. You steal pardners from each other. And when I get um all stole from down there but one-- we call it the main one-- I done stole all his pardners, we'll, he gon start dancin and he dance all the way up here and he gon start steain his pardners back. If [they] I don min, he gon steal some of mine's and have um all back down there. A: How can he get um and how can he steal um? V: He just walk up there, he just sing. He got to sing and cut up and ack mightily before he gets there, you know. Just jump up and buck dance and ball the jack and do evything and holler out and sing... Way over yonder 'hind de pine, Ain gon rain no mo Rainin now, it'll snow nex time, Ain gon rain no mo. Jaybird whistle and the martin dance, Jaybird whistle and the martin dance... And the one sing the bes. If he can sing better than I did, when I went down there, gon get all his pardners and maybe mines, too. He gon be just dancin and cuttin up, comin up there. A: Well, that's two boys who choose their pardners? Well, now what's this "Rosey"? How does that fit in there? V: Well, I be singin it... Rosey, baby, Rosey, Hah-ah, Rosey, Rosey, baby, Rosey, Hah-ah, Rosey. Steal up old man, you steal too slow, Steal like you ain gon steal no mo. Some folks say that a nigger won steal, But I caught three in my corn field. One had abushel and the other had a peck, Baby had a roasnear around her neck. Vera Hall, reel 4, page 10. That's the way we sing that. A: What would you be doin when you were singin that un? V: [Dancin] Dancin. Just dancin. Buck dancin. Doin evything to make that sound fit in. Dancin and twistin and runin all round in the ring. They make some kind of step and then slide up like hat and put his arm round her and come marchin on back with her. (Laughing deep and long) We did love to play that. A: Your folks never did get after you for playin that little children's games. V: No---, they never did pay us any attention. They'd be sittin on the porch sometime. Sometime they'd be in the house, my mother woulddoing something. A: Would you play those games long? V: When we have time, when our work and evything be done... We go to church on Sunday morning and we'd come back and after dinner, we eat our dinner. Maybe all the childrens comin over to our house this evenin and they could play over there till it was dark--they mothers wouldn't care, just whoever house we was at, we could play over there on Sunday evenin' till it was dark, befo we'd go home. And ef the moon was shinin, if it was a bright night, we could go home and get our night wood and water and stuff for the next mornin, [and] hep mama with the cows and she'd let us go back over there and play, play again. A: How late? V: Till about nine. She'd call us if we stayed later than she wanted us to. She'd get out there and call us. How would she Vera Hall, reel 4, page 11... A: How would she call you? V: She'd just call loud like this. She'd just call us name she'd say--"You [Vera] VerA---!" So sometime we'd here her sometime we wouldn. And she'd just keep callin, maybe she call down de road a piece and call. So finly we'd hear her call and all of us would answer. The people used to laugh at us bout all three of us answerin when mama called (Chuckle)--- Old man uz down there, he was name Uncle Jake Brown, he used to ask us, say, "How come all three of yall answer when your mama call yuh?" And he used to tell my mama, my mother was named Agnes, Agnes Hall, say "Agnes, how come all three of um have to answer when you call? They scared [to] you gonna whip um?" Mama say, "They know to come on here when I call um." Say, "I declare, I heard them chillun way across the graveyard the other day. You sont um over there atter [would] wood, didn you?" She say, "I did.["] I sent um over there way fo [Sundown S] sundown and it was dark and they hadn come [home] back yit, "Say," I heard um answerin so when they come to the graveyard (His wife was named Sady), I had Sady laughin, I say 'My Lawd, the dead must be woke up yonder'. There was just so much hollerin the graveyard--- All three of them children sayin' MAAM! MAAM!" Say "That won't do. (Wonderful giggle) A: How would she call your oldest sister? V: Say "You, Bessie !" A: And how would your sister answer. V: MAAM! Then all bofe of us--MAAM! She say all three of us would answer. We would do that though. (Laughter) Vera Hall, reel 4, page 12 A: Would your mama whip you? V: She has. She'd whup us if we'd go off and stay longer than she said or do something she didn't want us to do. I remember one time I like to got killed, but it was accident and my mama say she was sorry she whup me like that. A: How old were? V: I don[,] know, sir, just how old I was, but I think must have been small or weak or something. I couldn pick a churn up off the floor and sit it up on the table and pour milk out of it. My mama went to town that day, Saturday-- whenever she goes to town, she don't come back till in the night cause it was most too fur, I reckon. And so my sister wouldn churn the milk after mymama told her to churn and make some bread and cook greens and feed me and my other sister. Told my oldest sister that. Yeah, but she didn. She sit around there and talk wid an old boy on a mule. I never will forget, an old boy come there on a mule that Saturday. And she stood inside the window and [she stood] he sat on the mule outside the window and they talked and talked and talked. Well, me and my other sister we played out there, we made mudpies and we done everything. We [pepep] peer up under the ho use and see if we see the mule legs and ["Say] say "He ain gone yet." Our oldest sister was kinda courtin round then. And so-uh[, some] she kep talkin. I went in there and say, "You gon cook the bread, I'm hongry!" She said, "(Horrified whisper) You get on outa here!" Just like that. She didn want us to talk that. So we'd go back out and they talk, they talk there in the window. And so, well, she wouldn do, and so my nex sister, D-1, Vera Hall, reel 4, page 14. she went on in the kitchen--our kitchen set off [there] from the house--a little old log place where de ground was the de floor. So she went on and made a fire in de stove and cook the bread. So she say, we won churn, we'll just skim back de cream and get the clabber outa here and eat it. So, well, she went out there in the smokehouse. We had a smokehouse out there, say, "Wait and I'll get us some syrup, that'll be good wid de milk." I say, "Yeah." So she took a cup and she goin out there and turn the stopper and get some syrup, well, she did. I 'on sit on the whole churn of milk up on the table--it was sittin down there on the flo by the stove--sit up on the table so I could get the cream and the whole thing slipped outa my hand and busted all to pieces. And so my sister, my oldest sister, she come runnin, want to know what-- Oo, we all cried, cried-- And my other sister come back, "Lord, mama gonna kill us. Um!" But she did whip me. That's the truth! She come home and they told her, I told her too, I said, "Mama, I went to pick it up off the flo and it slipped out of my hands and just busted all to pieces, just all I know." But she wanted to know what I'm doing trying to pick it up. What I'm doing with it. Told her we were hongry. Bessie would not cook. She was talkin to that old boy, James, and she wouldn cook. Old James Thurman, I never will forget his name. And she whipped her, too, she whipped all three of us. A: What did she whip you with? V: She whipped us with switches. Vera Hall , reel 4, page 15. She went out in the peach tree and got about five or six switches cause peach tree switches wear out quick and she come back and she really whupped us, whipped me badly for bustin the churn open I know and she whipped my oldest sister--Oo, she told her didn she tell her to cook us sumpin to eat. A: Did she cry? V: We really did cry, all three of us cried. We didn't have any milk that night for supper, didn have a bit. So mama says, "Okay, what you gon eat for your supper?" Say, "I don know." "Okay, you'll just eat meat and bread and syrup. You don't have anything in the world to drink but water." So she cooked us sumpin to eat and give us bread and some water and so that's what we had for supper. So she milked again the next mornin but we couldn have no mo milk till the next night cause she didn let us eat it sweet, she always wanted it to turn to get the butter. A: She was a very determined woman, wasn't she? V: [O] Woo! She was. A: She had a strong will, didn't she? V: She really did. She sho did. A: Do you think she was too strict on you children? V: I don't think she was. Everything that she did I can see since I got grown up that it was pufitly right and I can see where she coulda done more and it woulda been all right wid me. Sho would. Cause she knowed, she knowed exactly what she was doin. A: What happened to your sister, Estelle? Vera Hall, reel 4, page 17. [*Estelle stays on the home place*.] V: She's at home. She's still out there at our home place. She married a man out there and she never has left. A: She doin well? V: She's doin' putty good. A: She got a fam'ly. V: She don have any childrens at all. She's got my two childrens out there now. I got two little boys. I certainly has. One's foteen and the other'n's leven. A: And you work at Tuscaloosa and send your money home. V: That's right. I send part of what I make. I pays ten dollars for my house rent there in Tuscaloosa. Now I only-- I only makes ten dollars a week and I sends part of that home cause she's on the farm. . . Now they get plenty to eat, plenty to eat, but she's not able to buy um so many clothes, cause they just don't have cash money, but they have a lot of food out there. A: The boys work on the farm. V: They heps. They sho does. They do all my brother-in-law's plowin. That oldest boy of mine's been had a mighty bad case of flu here a mont ago, so he ain doin anything, but de baby boy, Nichols, he's plowin, the one's that's leven. My brotherinlaw, he's not got such good health, he's not able to plow none much, so he wanted me to let um stay with him. I keeps 'em up sometime up here in Tuscaloosa with me, but I lets them stay there mostly because they can be mo help to him and that's the only place I have to call home now that my mother an father is dead and my other sister is dead there's nobody but just us two and my two boys. That's the fam'ly. So I let um stay out there so I'll have somewhere to go to call home. Stay out there and work around. . . My youngest boy I b'lieve he gon be a pretty good Vera Hall reel 4, page 18. singer because he sings in every school closen. They come get him. He sung up there at that state college.... Vera Hall, reel 5, page 1. GETTING RELIGION... V; First song that I heard the preacher sing and knowed that it was a song. The first time I went to church I heard that cause the first time I went, I went in revival. My mother carried me there one night, they was carryin on tractable meetin. (48) They had mourners on the bench, sinners, they callum--Corse I had to sit on the mourner's bench. My mama carried me up there and sit me down. A: How old were You? V: I was about twelve I believe. I believe I was sumpin like twelve or leven or sumpin cause-I know I was bout twelve-- cause between that age and [after] up to then mama wouldn't let us sit on the mourner's bench, cause she said we wasn't prayin anyhow and we was just up there maybe in other folks' way. She'd always keep us sittin back there where she was. She wouldn' let us go up there. But after I was-- I know I was twelve years old -- A: did you want to go up there? V: I did. I had been wantin' to go up there before she let me went up there. A: You felt in your heart that you wanted to go up there V: I sho did. I wanted to go up there and-uh get me a religion too. I thought that's where you had to go and get it. Those other folks was prayin and they would go and sit on the mourner's Vera Hall, Reel 5, page 2... bench. But she wouldn't let me go up there until I got up bigger, I reckon, than what I was. Older anyway. And then after that she let me went up there and I was closer to the preacher and I could hear what he says and could see him good. A: Do you remember what it was like when you went up to the mourner's bench for the first time? How you felt? V: I felt kinda scared. I know how I felt. Felt kinda scared. Mama come to the bench with me and seed that there was a seat over there where I could sit down,[So went in ben (19q] (191) So I went in between the bench to sit down and she went on back to where she usually sit all the time. And I looked back at her; I didn't much want to be left there. So, but I [stae] stayed. I just felt a [c] little scared or a little lonely or [so] something. I don't know how I felt. But I didn't want to stay there by myself right then. But the meetin' got to goin on and the people got to shoutin and goin on and singin and the preacher got to singin', well, I got all right. It just look like everything was all right. I felt better from that. That feelin' left me. A: Did you shout that night? V: I didn't. I didn't shout that night. I just sit there and looked at the people and at the rest of um shout. I cried. After I got sorry[,] for myself, because it looked like those Christian peoples was [i] havin such a good time. They was shakin hands and they was signin and they was just pattin us on the back and tellin us, you know, to believe on the Lord, try and believe on the Lord and all like that and I just wanted Vera Hall reel 5, page 3... to be a Christian that night. I just wished I was a Christian then. But I just didn't know how to be one right then. I got sorry and I cried and I cried. The old preacher he come down singin' ---Oo, he sung the best song about "He That Believe in the Father and the Son" O he that believe, he that believe, Have an everlastin' life, O that he believeth on the father and the son Have an everlastin life. I'm sometime up, I'm sometime down, Have an everlastin' life, I'm something almost level with the ground, Have an everlastin' life. O he that believe, etc.. And those people would be just shoutin' and just cryin'. Oo Lawd I wanted to be -- I wanted to be a Christian that night so bad I didn't know what to do (350) They was havin' a good time, but we sinners, we was just sittin there with our heads down, cryin, all of us was cryin. A: Well, honey, did you think that you'd sinned in life already. Had you felt sin? V: I didn -- I just don't know, sir, how I felt about it. It looks I didn't know enough about Christ to just git up and just join um. Just didn know enough about him just get up and join them and they said -- somebody had been tellin um round there you had to -- the devil got to run you at night -- you got to hear chains fallin -- you got to hear voices in the air ---. Well, I knew I hadn heard nothin like that, no chains, nothin fallin, devil, nothin hadn run me nary night, so I just wouldn get up because I hadn seen nothin like that, hadn heard heard nothin like that. And I didn want to get up and tell a story, say I've Vera Hall, reel 5, page 4. got religion and didn have nothin like that(400) So I just sit there and cry. And so my mother told me, if you feel the Lord--"If you feel in your heart, sad and sorry and you've got enough confidence in the Lord that you'll get in the church and just live for him, Say, Lord I don't know how to come to you, I don't know whichaway to get there, say, but there's one thing I can do, I can do all that I'm told to do here on the face of this earth in your name, that the Bible leads me to do, and that's all that I can do is live and be true." So that's what I did. She said, "Be in earnes about what you do. Don't tell stories. Do everything the best you can and be--whatever you is, be that and whatever you do, do that. And for God sakes, be truthful and live right." Say, "Live the best like that you can live in the world, "say, "When you do all you can, why the Lord will take care of you--" That's what my mother told me. Say, "He knows when you're in earnes about a thing and he knows when you ain't. "say "if you're in earnestly and go to him, tell him about yourself, he'll take care of you [and so I]." And so I does that until this very day, I really does. A: Well, honey you say[,] this was a revival when you began to sit up on the mourner's bench? V: It was. We called it a tractable meetin at that time. Say we're carryin on tractable meetin, but uh I noticed[, a] later, since then, the people all call it revival meeting, but our mother and father always called it tractable meeting. A: How long did the meeting last, honey? V: It would last two weeks. Vera Hall reel 5, page 5 A: Did you sit up on the mourner's bench the whole time. V: I did not. That was on Wednesday, I believe it was. Anyway it was around the middle of the week mama went out there. She never would go the first time it start--but she'd go about two three nights after it's done started(500). And it must have been long 'bout Wednesday night or Thursday night or something like that. And so when I went back there Sunday night, I joined, I joined the church that Sunday night and just I got with um. I joined and everybody was just so glad, um-um--um, they put me on the choir that night. A: How did you know it was time for you to join the church? V: I felt like I had Christ and I felt sorry for myself and I was willingly to do just what the preacher had read in the Bible the way he said that you had to do to come to Christ-- had to be humble and feel [and just feel] just sorry for yourself and feels like you just you not livin the way you'd like to be livin and the way you livin, you just die and be lost if you'll believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, we'll save you, he will save you. And so I felt that way and I did believe it, that the Lord will save me when I die. I still believe it. [*Use as speech after Baptism*] And till he said, "There's no nuse of plantin cotton if you ain gon work it. That's the way it is with religion. It's no use of fessin Christ--ownin him here if you not gon treasure it up and take care of him. Say, He don do his work but one time. He don come into your heart but one and that's for always, Say, but you can ack so bad till you just can feel sometime you never known Christ(560). . just feel like that you don't believe Vera Hall, reel 6, page 1. A: But you never did even turn away when your times were hardest when your mama was sick. . V: I did not. Just stayed just like I was. Just believed that he would fix it some way. A: You were havin' such a hard time-- how much were you makin then, Vera? V: I want makin but seven dollars a week. A: How would you make do on seven dollars a week? V: Well, you see I wouldnt try to buy any clothes. I'd try to pay my house rent outa that and just buy food. And buy the medicine that the doctor say for my mother to have. And the doctor -- that's the reason I said I just done on what I could--he was good. He would make trips-- he would tell me--Vera, don't be no ways bashful or feel bad about callin me, if you need me. Said, that's all right about the money--I understand, Said, you can pay it whenever you can, but if you need me you call me, night or day. So I believed the Lord did that, causin him to be like that. So every time he come, he'd think that I was feelin bad over not havin any money to give him and he'd always pat me on the shoulder when he'd come in to see mama and say don't worry say, "You need me, you call me. You do that, you hear? Said, "Yessuh I sholy would." Said, "Don't hesitate." Said, "If sumpin happen or she gets in a way that you don't know what's wrong, you call me. You cain't do nothin but call a doctor. Call me." So I did. He was right nice to me. I haven been so long got him paid. And my mother been dead over a year. A: How much was the bill? Vera Hall, reel 6, page 2. (181) V: When he got all through my bill was thirty five dollars. Cose that was a whole lot. Thirty five dollars. Cose he come night and day. Lots of people round there------ if they have to make trips like that. A: Your mother just died then? V: She did. She had a light stroke. She was lingerin round eight years with rheumatism--limbs. Couldnt walk hardly. She was in that shape a long time. A: You were the one that looked after her. V: I was. I sholy was. My oldest sister 's dead. And my next sister that's married out on the farm now-- You see I always lived in the town. And uh, she had always ruther be there with me because I could get sumpindone for her quicker than my other sister could. So, why I could was because my other sister was ten miles in the country and so many times it was unconvenient to get a doctor out there. So she, after she lost her health for the last eight years, she come to live with me. She'd go back out there in the summer when she's feelin purty good, let me rest up some, but she did the bigges of her stayin there with me. When she had that last stroke, she wasn't sick, she wasn't down and helpless long before she died. She lingered a long time. A: I guess it broke you up pretty bad, didn't it? Reel 6, page 3. . . V: Wo-oo! Yessuh, I ain quite over it yet (apologetic laugh) when I think about it. It sure did, (300) but we was fortunate in one thing about it. My sister had her in a buryin. . If she hadn a been in that buryin, I reckon my life would a been in pawn to some undertaker to get her buried. Cause that was what I had in mind--I was just gonna-- I didn't have nothin I know he wanted, so I's gon tell him "You just take me and let me work for you till I pay you. That's all I can do." But my sister had her in a little buryin society. It's a funeral home thing. It's that York's undertaker place. She couldn get nothin but a buryin, but my sister had been carryin her in it for years, but when she died, they said just call um up and they come get her. So they come clean to Tuscaloosa and got the body. And carried her to York and fixed her up and brought her back to Livingston. A: Lots of people came to her funeral out there I reckon? V: Oo---! Surely did. A: She was a very gentle-- and a big church member. V: That's right. Sholy was and she was loved by lots of people, white and cullud. She worked for lots of white people round there. Stayed in the house with um. A: Several different preachers preach her funeral. V: It was just three there. Her pastor died. He died winter before last (a strange little laugh). He wasn't--he was dead. He lived at Meridian, Reverend Cullins, that was her pastor. But he died. . . This preacher that preached her funeral, I don't know anything about him and I don't suppose any of the rest of Reel 6, page 4. them much. Cose he come in there since I been to Tuscaloosa. He-he preached all right . . . (very condescending) Her funeral had already been preached by the other people by the other people speakin, you know, sayin that they knew about her and what kind of life she lived and everybody said practically the same thing. They just know Agnes--"Well, allI can say about her (400), she just was a Christian woman and she always ack like it, she always do sumpin good and sumpin right. She always went to church. She tried to raise a nice bunch of girls, which she did. She just only had the three girls but I think she raised a mighty nice fam'ly. And she always was so humble lookin and so kindly tryin to teach and tell people the right thing to do and what to do. She'd even try to show you what to do. So they want so much for the preacher to say. He said, when he got up to talk about her, he said, "I don't see nothin left for me. Sister Hall's fun'el already been ----. Everybody seem to give her the same name. An everybody round here knew her life. There's nothin for me to say. . ." So he said a few words and he sang some song or nuther. I don't know what it was that he sung, but it was something bout "Fly away". I was so hurted myself that day that I didn't hear all I was supposed to hear, cause I had to get up and leave the church. But he sung some song about "Fly away." Some glad morning when life is over, I will fly away To a home on home on God's celestal showah I will fly away O I will fly away, O glory, " " In the morning, when I die, Hallelujah, by and by, I will fly away. I think that was it, though. I believe it was. I could hear Vera Hall, reel 6, page 5. A: Vera, when you get off by yourself, like you were saying and you begin to sing andmoan to yourself, what [you] are you sing at those times? V: Well, I sing a hymn, sumpin like When I can read my titles clear tomansions in the sky. . . but I hum it (520) (SHE HUMS and half sings until 560. . .) (Anne comes in --- 600 --- Vera sings I'm Ridin in a Buggy for Anne. . . (641--- Recording resumed after dinner. . .Talk about sister, Estelle. . .) V: She never did go off much. She never did go way from home very much. She always stayed around. She hope mama more than any of us. Hope mama with the housework. She seem like she if mama had a lot of patchin to do today she'd jump in and try to he'p her. If she couldn hep her patch, she tear off the patches or cut em off. She just be sittin there with her. A: You mean, makin a patchwork quilt? V: Patchin our clothes, papa's clothes. Mama'd patch every week she'd wash and then she'd see all what was torn and raggedy and she'g get the worst lookin things and fix them that could be fixed. Patch um. Tear off patches and patch um. Patch our clothes and papa's clothes, too. And my sister, Estelle, she would hep her, even cookin in the kitchen, she would be round in there with her. She was mama's-- mama used to tell other people-- she was more of a mama's chile than we was. I was always Vera Hall, rell 6, page 6. crazy bout my father anyhow, but I loved mama. But just seemed like I loved him better. But my sister, Bessie, she's just wild. A: Do you think it's natural for a girl to love her mama better or her dady better? Most in generally. V: Most ingenerally all girl children love their father better than they do their mother. Cause I know I did. I loved my father better than I did [my mother]-- A: What about the boys? V: The boys would love their mother, better than they do their father. (A explains about Vera's little brother) V: Only brother that I had. Mama just owned four--three girls and one boy. And he was just above me and he died. Something was wrong with his head. He want sick but he was just born with a big head. Great big head. He lived to set lonely. Everytime he would sit down, his head would just tumble him over. Just throw him over. He had plenty life mama say. He'd eat well and he'd play the way babies should do, but he just had a big head. A: Vera, were you natured up like your mama or like your. . .? V: I'm like my mother eve ybody said. A: And Estelle, what was she like? V: She was like my father's sister, Alouvinia, the one that sing so. They say she was just exactly like her in the look at her. But I'm got all the ways and evy'thing like her. But evybody say I look like my mother. Vera Hall, reel 6, page 7. AL: Did you know Alouvinia well. V: I never did know her. Sho didn't A: You just came out to be like her? V: That's what they all said that I'm just like her-- in ways. A: Well, where did you learn most of your songs? From your sisters growin up or your father or your mother? V: I learnt some of um from my mother. My father, I never heard him sing much. He used to whistle a lot in the field. And sometime I wouldn know what he was whistlin. But I never did hear him sing out much. A: He never did do any hollerin when he was plowin much? V: He didn. Just whistle. A: What kind of a man was he? What sort of disposition did he have? [*Father's looks*] V: He had a kind of a-- he looks like he was about half mad or something all the time, but that was his nachul way of lookin. He never did talk much--why did I--lots of people thought he didn--we did--we thought he was good--good papa--but other people was half way scared of him--the boys was cause he never did have nothin to say-- if the [*Begin father's story*] yard was full of boys or the porch, when he come home, they wouldn stay there so long. Cose he'd speak to em, say, "Howdy, boys [eyd] he'd say, "Howdy, mist." And so he'd go on in the house and if it's hot, he'd git him a chair and go out there and sit down, put his feet up on the pos'. He wouldn say a word to um, not nary nuther word. Wouldn say anything. He'd treat anybody like that if they come Vera Hall, reel 6, page 8. there but that uz just his way, mama said, he just didn talk. He wasn mad about anything. It was just his way-- not talkin. A: When he did have something to say, what did he say, what kind of things did he talk about? Tell you any stories about himself. V: He told us one time he used to have a mighty hard time when he was a boy comin up. He'd tell us things in the winter time when we'd be in the house. (815) And he said that he was a ba-d boy, he was kind of a mischievous boy. Said that he would fight boys, fool em off in the woods, make like he was goin to hunt scaly barks and hickory nuts and git the smaller children way out in the woods and he'd fight um, just beat um out there with sticks and things like that. And he say, when he got to be bout eighteen years old, eighteen or nineteen I believe he said, a young man, said, he played ball ha-rd one day, played baseball real hard. Said he come home that night and he lied down said his mother had cooked some pepper grass with some meal dumplins in it, his mama used to make um a lot of times. . . They said that he eat too much of those dumplins-- they's toogreasy, they said. He say he lie down on the bed. The house always had big cracks in it. It rained in it. They stayed in a big old barn-lookin' place down there. And he say he was lyin there in the bed and he dont know whether he was sleep or no. Anyhow he said he saw three little folks come up to one of those cracks, but mama said he wasn doin nothin but dreamin, but he clares befo God he wasn sleep. . . Vera Hall, reel 6, page 9 . . . Say they peeped in first and then moon was shinin bright and he was layin there flat of his back on the pallet on the flo lookin up through the cracks. Say one come there and peeped in. Say it was three heads up there and one of um peeped down and say he was watchin em, just layin there lookin at em. And said after while they got back and so they sit down on the crack and one got down--say he don't know what come of him when he got down--say but after while another one sit down on the crack and he slided himself down through the crack-- say he's just layin there lookin--- mama declares he's asleep, but he declares he wasn--and say the other one got down there and say the last one got down there he was still watchin the crack. Said he knew they had got down in the house, but he was still lookin up through the crack. And said he don know what went with him then, just look like to him the room fell on him just as heavy as five hundred bale of cotton. Just look like sumpin just dropped in his breast just like that. And said he was just tryin to holler and just tryin to do everything he could call his mother and he didn know what in the world happen to him He said that he was hollerin and strugglin and goin on so till when he waked up he reckon he was woke up or out of his head one, said, he grabbed the latch on the do. Said they had a latch on th do fastened. When he Come to where he could use hissef any, he grab the latch on to do -- (900) Vera Hall, reel 6, page 10 . . . and whatever it was, he say he bit one of 'ems finger off. Or some part of it off. It was either his finger or somepin about him and twas just as bitter as any gall. He spit it down in the do and he say everybody down there went there to see it. It was just a big roundgreen spot that he spit down there in the do that night. Said, that that's what he spit out of his mouth. An nobody in the world could imagine what that was could have come after him. An he said I want asleep either. If I was asleep, those men put me to sleep when they got in there, cause I just had stretched out on the pallet and was just lyin there lookin up through the crack and I saw these three people when they come up there. Say, there wasn't no mo than about-- Say they was little folks, but they were mean. And he said that when he come to his senses and grabbed that latch on the do and he looked he looked right straight out in the yard, Said, he was in the door and he called his mother and his father. And said his father never did get up but his mother come in there where he was and asked him what in the world was the matter and said that he told her, said, "I been tryin to call you for long-- for I don't know how long and I just got where I could call you. Some mens toted me off that pallet back yonder to this do. Said, "aw son you just got up and walked there." Said, "No, man, those folks brought me up here, I know they did." So he still bas(?) on it and so mother, his mother, said she believed it, but my mother and his father said that he was sleep. And said they didn't believe nobody didn't Vera Hall, reel 6, page 11, come at nobody on earth like that, Say, whole soul an body. Say, "Whyn you still stay sleep and see what they gon do with you?" Say, "I don know Im gon sleep. I was too glad to nuse my arms." And I don't know--he told us that a many and a many times. A: When your father started out did he have a hard time to start out and get married and get him a place? Did he have to work hard when he was a little boy and so on? V: He said they did, said they worked on a big plantation They lived on a big plantation, his father did, was livin on a big plantation. . .You see his fatherwas sold in that country, he said, that want really his father's home down in Sumpter County. He was broughtthere by some white people and sold there to this man, Mister Brown. And he married there married somebody there. I didn't know her. But uh, he always just farmed on the man's plantation, grandfather did. He just farmed on the man's plantation, he never did have a special one of his owns. And that's the way they come up. just working this white man's fields, just working for him. He-he'd give um. He'd buy their clothes and buy their shoes, give um a little money for Christmas, something like five dollars, give the daddy something like five dollars for Christmas and uh that's the way papa was brought up. . . A: He never did get any share of the crop. V: Nawsuh, he never did get any share of it. Just work whatever he put in. They all families would just work that on out. And Christmas times this white man would give the daddy five dollars and he'd give him the order to town to buy um VH reel 6, page 12 shoes and some overalls and shirt for the boys and get cloth for the girls, get some homespun cloth to make them some dresses, all of um a dress apiece, and a pair of shoes apiece. And that's how they lived. He say, they always have plenty food. He led um have plenty food. They'd make all the syrup and potatoes and stuff themselves, but they'd haul it to his barn. It would be at his house. E: What did they do for drinking whiskey? V: They musta didn't have any. I never heard my father say anything about any. A: And then he decided he didn't want to live there any more, when he got up. . . V: When he got grown, he says, why he left there and he come down to another man's place by the nameof Mister Will Cobb's. We lived there after him and mama got married. We was big childrens. . .I remember when he lived there on Mister Cobb's place. He got married to my mother and he moved there and he rentedsome land from Mister Cobbs and just started in payin so much a rent on the land and he made what he wanta on it. (1025) A: Is it red land, or black? V: It's dark lookin soil. Well, some of it's black. Some of its sandy. But you makes good corn, well, you makegood evything there. You just get tired of pickin peas and gatherin potatoes and things like that. Just have to leave some of that in the field. A: Is there any time of the year when youall had time off when there wasnt work to be done in the fields. . . Vera Hall, reel 6, page 13. V: They always lay by-- they be nearly through layin by by the fourth of July lessen they got a mighty big crop. Round the fourth of July eveybody's practically thu choppin and maybe thu plowin. Done laid by the crops. They ain't gon plow and chop no mo. A: Was that a time when your father could take it easy for a- while. V: He would-- he could out of his crop but he'd always go some- wheres else and go to work. Go cuttin hay or something. Go work out by the day and make some money when he lay his crop by, he'd got cut hay from somebody. . . E: intervenes with some naive questions. . . A: He was a very hard worker then? Worked hard all the year round. V: He shu was. He worked a; ; the year round. A: What did he do in the winter time? V: Well, he'd cut wood and haul it tow town and sell it. A: What would he get for it? V: Sometime he'd get seventy five cents and sometime he'd get fifty. Fifty cents. He had his own mules and wagon A: He was a good deal better off than the general average of folks in there, wasn't he? V: He certainly was. So many of them there didn't have their own wagon and team and then a lot of um there did. . .Take this Jackie Thomas. He had two wagons and two mules and then a hoss and a mule. Of his owns. It was a lot of them down there had they own things, too. And so many of them that didn Vera Hall, reel 6, page 14. have anything, nothin at all (1100) Transcribed and reviewed by volunteers participating in the By The People project at crowd.loc.gov.