SPEECHES & WRITINGS FILE Broadcast Celebrating [Terrell's] 88th Birthday over WOOK, Sept. 23, 1951 Broadcast Celebrating my 88th Birthday over WOOK, September 23, 1951 Tomlinson Todd, Interviewer. (1) Mrs Terrell, I would like to start off this interview with this question When and Where Were You Born? xxxxxxxxxx Answer (1) I was born in Memphis, Tennessee, September 23, 1863 xxxxxxxxxx Would you like to tell us about your educational background? [I understand that after leaving school your cheif interest was in the field of education. Would you tell us something about this?] [*3*] (2) My mother took me from Memphis Tennessee when I was about 7 years old to a little school called "A Model School for Children, sponsored by Antioch college in Yellow Sprins, Ohio, of, which Horace Mann was the first president. I remained in that school for a year, then attended the public schools of the town about 3 years, was taken to Oberlin, Ohio, entered the 8th grade of the public schools there and graduated from the High Schhol in June 1879, I attended the Senior Class of the preparatory department of Oberlin College which has since been abolished [abandoned], [and] received my AB degree from Oberlin College in 1884 and my AM degree in 1887. In 1946, Wilberforce University [conferred the] awarded me the degree of Doctor of Letters, Howard University and Oberlin College conferred the degree of Doctor of Humane Letters upon me in 1948. (3) I understand that after leaving school your chief interest was in the field of education. Would you tell us something about that? After graduating from Oberlin College I remained a year with my father in Memphis. I wanted very much to teach, but my father was bitterly opposed to my teaching. He said he was able to support me, to give me every thing I needed and wanted very much to do it. Moreover, he said he thought it would be a sin for me who didn't need it to get a job as a teacher and thus deprive a girl of a job who needed it to support herself. I went to New York to see my mother in the summer and while there I definitely decided to teach. I wanted very much to come into direct contact with our youth, especially our young women. I felt it was my duty to do so. So I wrote to several of our colleges and offered my services as a teacher. 65 years ago very few colored girls had graduated from a college of Oberlin's standing, so that I was offered a position in practically every college to which I wrote. I accepted the position offered me by Wilberforce University because I was impressed with its history and knew that the great Bishop Payne was there. Moreover, I knew my father would object less to my teaching in the North than in the South, and I wanted to placate and please him if I possibly could. Shortly after beginning my work at Wilberforce I wrote my father explaining the reasons why I thought it was my duty to teach and entreating him to forgive me for disobeying and displeasing him, assuring him that I had only done so because I thought it was my duty to the young people of my race. His angry reply grieved me sorely. I finished that year at Wilberforce and enjoyed my work very much. I decided to spend the summer vacation with my mother in New York. About the last of July I suddenly decided to go to see my father. Mother did not object, so I took the train for Memphis. The day before I arrived I sent father a telegram saying "Arrive tomorrow morning at five o' clock. Daughter." The next morning when the train pulled into Memphis there was my handsome, well-beloved father at the station waiting for me! He became thoroughly reconciled to my teaching, was willing for me to return to Wilberforce the next year and then to accept a position in the High School here. 2 (4) Would you like to tell us about some of your trips to Europe and some of your interesting experiences while there? After teaching in Washington a year my father consented to let me study in Europe. We took a three months trip together in Europe, and then he very reluctantly left me in Paris. When he took the train to go to the steamer for home he begged me to go with him. I told him I couldn't because my clothes were at the hotel. "Leave them," he said, "I'll get you some more clothes when we get home." But there was no [not any] chains strong enough anywhere in the world to drag me from Paris that day! I studied French in Paris for a short time, but at that period it was considered necessary for a respectable girl to have a chaperone and not to walk on the streets unattended. Not being accustomed to such restrictions I decided to go to Lausanne, Switzerland, where I would have the freedom which the young women of my own country enjoyed. I staid in Lausanne a year and was very fortunate in finding a home with a fine family in [who] which there were two daughters about my age, who made my stay in that picturesque, lovely city delightful and distinctly worth while from every point of view. I had a small room with one window from which I could see both the towering Alps and the low-lying Jura mountains. I attended a school for girls and enjoyed my work very much,. From Lausanne I went to Berlin, Germany, and was fortunate again in finding an ideal home with the widow of a Court minister who had two daughters near my age who took me everywhere they went. After studyi ng in Berlin nearly a year I went to Florence Italy where I remained about six months. I had many interesting experiences in Europe which I wish I could relate. On that trip perhaps the most interesting and significant one was in Berlin while I was living with Frau Oberprediger Hoche. Her daughters took me to a party one afternoon. Girls from every country in Europe were there and they began to talk about the different governments under which they lived. Wishing to show what a fine government unde r which I lived, I hopped out into the middle of the room, as the other girls had done to make their little speeches and said "But I live inder the finest government in the world. I live under a Democracy." 3 A German girl who had once lived in the United states jumped into the center of the room and said "Marie, didn't you tell me that some of your ancestors were Africans?" "Yes", I replied. "You asked me why, as an American, [?] I happened to be so dark. I explained the reason why I was so dark by saying that some of my ancestors were Africans." "Then you would be a Negro in the United States, wouldn't you?" she asked. "Yes", I said. " "Well, " she said scornfully, "nobody knows better than a Negro in the United States that he doesn't live in a Democracy, but that he lives in a Hypocrisy." [*begin "In contrast to that one unpleasant experience. Turn over this page and read page 3 1/2*] (4) (4( [*Begin after reading page 3 1/2*] [*(5)*] I understand that you have been active in civic work for many years. How did you get started in this field? Perhaps this is how it happened. When I was in the Freshman class at Oberlin College I became interested in Woman Suffrage. It was natural that an Oberlin girl should be interested in any effort to secure equal [ity] rights for women. Oberlin, founded in 1833, was the first college in the United States to open its doors at one and the same time both to a handicapped sex, women, on equality with white men and to an enslaved race, colored people, 30 years before slaves were freed. [emancipated at one and the same time]. During one term I happened to be the only girl in a class of 40 boys. And when they heard I heartily approved of Woman Suffrage, [some of them] way back in 1881, 71[0] years ago, some of them had a good time cracking jokes at my expense. From [this] that time till this day I have been deeply interested in all activities or movements organized to help children and women. As the first president of the National Association of Colored Women, [?] organized here in Washington, July 21, 1896 we held our 28th Biennial in Los Angeles Aug 1-8-'52 I urged the clubs affiliated with our Association to establish as many kindergartens as they could. At that time kindergartens, even in the best and most advanced schools, were comparitively rare. The National American Woman Suffrage Association used to hold conventions here every two years. I religiously attended all these Biennials and met the most distinguished women in the United States. Susan B. Anthony honored me with her friendship. She invited me to be her guest in her home in Roshester, N.Y. gave a reception in my honor and was instrumental [*3 1/2*] In contrast to that one unpleasant experience I could give quite a long list of the courtesies extended to me by my European friends. Mr. and Mrs. H.G.Wells [entertained me in] invited me to spend week ends with them three times-every time they knew I was in London. The Countess of Warwick gave a luncheon in [?] on her beautiful country estate about an hour and a half's ride from London and had me sit beside her as her guest of honor. Lady Astor, a member of Parliament, also gave a luncheon in my honor at the House of Commons, and had me sit beside her.Among the guests on that occasion were two southerners from [her United States] Virginia, the State in which she was born . I had the great pleasure and honor of meeting Haile Selassie who graciously permitted me to come to see him when he was living at Bath, England little more than an hour's ride from you know London, where he was living when he had to leave Ethiopia. [*He has since returned*] I have represented colored women abroad 3 times. The first time in Berlin, Germany [*in 1904 at the International Congress of Women*] when I delivered my address in German, French and English The second time in Zurich [*about 1918*] Switzerland, about 1918 when I was a delegate from the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom, of which Jane Addams was president. The delegates to that convention unanimously elected me to represent that organization at the first meeting in an age-old cathedral in which women had never been allowed to speak before. The 3rd time was in London when I was a delegate from the World's Fellowship of Faiths and de- delivered an address. [Turn over this page and begin] Turn over this page and begin with the next question [* [?] Page 3 and begin *] [* (5) *] ["I understand that you have been active in civic work for many years. How did you get started in this field?] 4 mental in having me invited to deliver an address in the Unitarian Church, there, (6( [* Question (6) *] I understand that Frederick Douglass was also interested in Woman Suffrage. Would you mind telling us something about him? [* Answer *] Undoubtedly Frederick Douglass was the greatest man this country has ever produced. In studying history I have read of no man who was born a slave in the lowest possible depths, as Frederick Douglass was, who rose to such lofty heights, mainly by his own efforts, as Frederick Douglass did. I met him when I was a Freshma n in Oberlkn College. Senator B.K. Bruce, a senator from Mississippi, the only colored man in the Senate of course then and Mrs. Bruce invited me to come to Washington to attend the inauguration of President James A. Garfield. [* My father consented *] The women of this country owe Frederick Douglass a debt of gratitude which they can never repay. When the first Woman's Rights Convention in the history of the world met in Seneca Falls, N.Y. in 1848, Elizabeth Cady Stanton introduced a resolution demanding political equality for women. Although the meeting had been called expressly for that purpose, not a man or woman there had the courage to second Mrs. Stanton's motion. Frederick Douglass, a run a way slave, the only colored person at the meeting, was also the only person there who had the courage to second Mrs. Stanton's motion. And it was largely due to Frederick Douglass' masterful arguments and matchless eloquence that this motion passed in spite of the fierce opposition of its powerful foes. At the 60th anniversary of the First Woman's Rights Convention at Seneca Falls in 1908, the pioneers at that first convention were represented by their descendants. I had the honor of being invited on that occasion to represent Frederick Douglass and to deliver an address. [(8( [* (7) *] [* Question (7) *] You have done quite a bit of writing. Would you tell us about this phase of your interest, and also about your book entitled A Colored Woman in a White World." [* Answer- *] I have written for newspapers and magazines. I have written for the Washington Post, the Washington Star, the Boston Herald, the Chicago Tribune and [* 5*] for magazines like the North American Review, the Nineteenth Century and After and others. For several years I was a columnist on the Chicago Defender I have written for the Afro-American and [/] other papers in our own group. [* Turn over the page and read Page 5 1/2 *] [My book "A Colored Woman in a White World" was published in 1940 with [Every] a preface by H.G.Wells, the great English author. Dr. Ralph J. Bunche wrote [book was sold the first year] the foreword. Every copy of my book was sold the first year it was published. [* Turn over the page *] And now scarcely a week passes that I do not get an order from some book store or publisher for a copy. I am trying to have it reprinted. [* Begin after reading Page 5 1/2 *] [* 8 *] [* 8 *] Tell us something about your more recent civic projects including the [fi] fight against restaurants, discriminations in the National Capital connected with the story also the American Association of University Women. [* * *] Many years ago I was a member of the Washington Branch of the American Association of University Women. But I was appointed one of the first two women to serve on the Board of Education in April 1895. My duties to the schools consumed so much of my time and strength that temporarily I withdrew my membership from the Washington branch of the A.A.U.W. [* Some *] Several years ago my college friend Mrs. Clarence Swift, (incidentally we have been friends fo r 75 [70] years came to Washington and we decided it would be like old times to belong to the Washington branch together.. But when I applied for reinstatement in the branch my application for reinstatement was rejected solely on account of my race. There was a courageous minority group in the Branch of which Mrs. Swift was a very active member who worked continuously and hard [to have me admitted] to have me admitted [but they] , but they did not succeed [succeed]. However, the delegates to the convention [national] of the National Association of University Women which met in Seattle, Washington about [*3*] 2 years ago voted 2168 to admit all qualified women without regard to race, color or creed. Only 68 delegates voted [ag] against the motion and rumor has it that 23 came from Washington. After the vote at the Seattle convention The members of the majority group [majority of the members] of the Washington branch who refused to admit me withdrew and formed what is now the University Women's Club. The former noble, courageous minority group of the Washington Branch who observed the constitution of the A.A.U.W has formed a fine, thriving, progressive Washington branch of the AAUW [*Page 5 1/2*] My book "A Colored Woman in a White World", was published in 1940 with a preface by H.G.Wells, the great English aithor.Dr. Ralph J. Bunche wrote the forward. I wrote the book to show the almost insurmountable obstacles confronting colored women who aspire to enter certain lines of human endeavor for which they are well prepared but from which they are excluded today solely on account of their race. Every copy of my book was sold the first year it was published. Even now scarcely a week passes that I do not get an order for the book from some publisher or book store. I am trying to have it reprinted. [*(Turn over the page and Begin*] [*Begin*]. Tell us about your more recent civic projects & [*)] [the AAUW] to which a goodly number of [at least 30] colored women belong. [2] [*9*] [*9*] I understand that you have lived in Washington D.C. for many years. What changes have you noticed since you have been here? When I came here sixty years ago I did not dream there would be so few changes to better the conditions under which our group then lived as appear today. I am very grateful to the members of the Coordinating Committee and to all our friends who have worked so faithfully and so hard enforce the [Anti-Discrimination] 1872 and1873 Anti-Discrimination Law [and to] as a result of our work. As a result of their work all the Department & 5 & 10 stores on 7th street serve our group. Recently a 5 & 10 ct store on 7 St began to serve us after it had _ picketed. [abolish the discrimination and segregation of which the colored people of Washington have been victims for more than 80 years . X X XThe[re] Department of Justice has intervened as amicus curiae in the Thompson Restaurant case [There is] and believes [it] In a letter I recently re ceived [It was told that that both the 1872 and 1873] [xxx] has expressed the conviction] that both the 1872 and 1873 laws are in effect and presently enforceable. There is every reason to hope and believe X X that owing to the monumental efforts our Coordinating Committee and our friends have made and are making in behalf of justice, the conditions affecting the 300,000 colored people of Washington will in the not too distant future be such as should [ex] obtain in the Capital of this country called The Greatest Democracy on earth [*Altho The Municipal Court of Appeals has rendered the decision that the 1872 and 73 laws are valid - But our Corporation Council West says he will not enforce them - As a result of our work many of the restaurants and eating places which formerly refused to [do so] serve us does now including all the all the department and 5 and 10 cent stores on 7th Street now serve our group. Recently a 5 & 10 cent store on F St began to serve us after it had been picketed 4 months. X The Department of Justice has intervened as amicus curiae in the Thompson Restaurant Case and believes that both the 1872 and 1873 laws are in effect & presently enforceable. Nevertheless the Corporation Counsel says he wont enforce them _ The Municipal Court of Appeals says the laws are valid. The United States Court of Appeals heard the case January 7 but have not yet rendered a decision. There is every reason to hope and believe] However there is reason to hope and believe xx *as a result of our work Many of the restaurants and other eating places which formally refused to serve our group do so now, including [the department] those in the department and 5 & 10 cent stores on 7th Street. Recently a 5 & 10 ct store on F St between 12th & 13th began to serve us after it had been picketed 4 months. The Department of Justice has intervened as amicus curiae in the Thompson Restaurant Case. Transcribed and reviewed by contributors participating in the By The People project at crowd.loc.gov.