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This tape is made July 29, 2002 with Marion Ulysses Graham. Mr. Graham resides at 957 Lombard Avenue in Evansville, Indiana. He is a native of Princeton and Gibson County, Indiana, served with the United States Marines in World War II in the Fleet Pacific headquarters, and also then in the Korean conflict in the 3rd Battalion, 5th Regiment of the First Marine Division. His highest rank attained was that of Captain. His serial number was 037550 and enlisted at age of 21 in 1942. Saw service in World War II, in Korea, World War II in Guam, Saipan and other islands, and of course Korea during the conflict there. He's been awarded the Bronze Star. This tape is made before Larry Ordner, Regional Director for United States Senator Dick Luger. Mr. Graham, thanks so much for coming in and agreeing to do this interview. Appreciate you doing this. Now, tell me: Where were you in 1942? Where were you living and then what made you decide to enter the military. First of all, were you drafted or did you enlist?
I enlisted. I was a student at Indiana State University in Terre Haute, and like so many young men at that time, we knew eventually we would be drafted, and I made the mistake of I think seeing a movie about the South Pacific in a movie, and a--probably a news reel about the battle over there. And so all of a sudden I decided I was going to join the Air Corps. And I went down to the recruiting office in Terre Haute, and they informed me that I couldn't pass the eye test for Air Corps, Marine Air Corps, because I had to go through the Navy and then get into the Marine Corps, but the man there said why don't you eat a lot of carrots and things and in a month or so go to Indianapolis and try it there. So, I did that, but I didn't pass the eye test there either, so I just ended up going to the Marine Corps recruiter and I joined the Marine Corps. He in turn, finding that I had three years of college, decided that I was potential officer candidate material, so they stamped that on my enlistment papers and said you go back to college and finish this semester and we will call you. So that's what they did. And I went back in--went into the Marine Corps then. They sent me to Western Michigan University of which was in Kalamazoo, Michigan and I was there for one semester to pick up some--a course in naval organization and a mathematics course and a couple of other courses that they felt necessary for an officer candidate to have, and then off to boot camp I went. Then I went through the process of becoming a marine and eventually an officer in the Marine Corps.
Can you tell me, please, what was the marines' role at that time in the war. Did the marines have a real clear focus of the kinds of engagements that they would participate in as opposed to the other branches?
Well, if you go through the Marine Corps, after you finish boot camp, how a particular--I can't just put my finger on it, but they instill into you that you are in the greatest organization that the country has, and that our role was to do what other services can't do. That's kind of amusing, as I look back on it, but you actually believe that you are a part of the greatest organization the military has. So, if we need to take an island, well, that's the way it was. That was our thinking.
When they sent you off to boot camp, where was that?
Parris Island.
South Carolina?
South Carolina.
How rigorous was it for you?
Well, back then it was very rigorous. This was before they had had any mishaps, so the drill instructors were allowed a lot of freedom in those days and things that were then considered and later were considered inhuman and that, the cause of a couple accidents, we had to endure.
Can you tell me some of those.
Just silly things like you would fall out with a pack and they would fill your pack with sand, or a hot day and you would drill, or you might fall out. If you made a mistake you would have a bucket on your head. Just all kinds of things that at the time would make you mad, but later you would brag about you endured it. That type of thing.
Do you feel like those incidents toughened the marines up?
I think they did. I feel they did. Once you went through that, fact is I caught myself later in life saying--or incidents, hey, other guys have done this. If they have done it, I can do it, and it wasn't so bad. So, you know, the training was very severe and I think it accomplished the job.
Were you there in summer?
Yes, I was.
In the heat of South Carolina?
Well, I was there through part of the summer and late fall, because I remember when we fired the rifle range we had a snow, and at the first snow everybody went crazy. First snow they had seen, they said, in 20 years. It wasn't much.
That's pretty far south.
A little coating on the ground, but it was--and it was cold for them. It was a very unusual incident. So, I was there during a hot summer and then went into fall. I was there for, oh, about four months, I guess it was, something like that, last part of summer and early fall.
Following boot camp, what was your next--
I went to Camp Legume, South Carolina to an infantry training session. I was promoted to PFC. And these were--we were staging to go into replacement battalions out in the South Pacific, and while there they needed more officer candidates, and so out of the group of us that were there, they pulled in people who had had so much college, and also people--then they went through a screening board and out of that they chose so many people to go back to Quantico, Virginia. I remember, very unusual, the screening board we went into, they marched you in individually and there was a long table with officers sitting behind it and you were at attention and they would toss questions out to you to see how your reaction. Later I realized it was just to see whether you got flustered or not. They would ask you questions like I remember some of them distinctly. One was what's the best university in the United States. Well, you know, here if I say--my thinking real quick is if I don't say the one I went to, why didn't you take the best? So my answer, I remember, was something to the effect of that it depends on what you want to do as to what university you go to, and I wanted to be a teacher coach so I went to Indiana State University, but if I had wanted to be a lawyer or something I would have probably gone to Harvard or Yale. What's the population of the black people in the United States. Negro, they called Negro population. How would I know that? I just felt, well, my hometown was probably 10 percent so I said probably between 10 or 12 percent. I don't know if I was right or not, but they asked you questions like that you really wouldn't know the answer to. And I went out of that meeting not knowing whether I pleased them or not, but the next day Sergeant Major sent for me and within two days and I was off to Quantico, Virginia, Officers Candidate School, and then spent 13 weeks in Officers Candidate and 13 weeks in reserve or in reserve officers. Anyway, after you were commissioned you spent another 13 weeks in a training program for officers.
What kinds of things were they teaching officers, instructing potential officers for, at that time?
Well, we really went through I would say almost advanced things of what we had in boot camp.
You were being trained for leadership?
Yeah. Yeah. You would take turns. This week maybe you would be in charge of a platoon, but you were constantly changing clothes, up and down out of the barracks. You would fall out and you would fall in. We would drill and go through all the things that--playing soldier, marines, but we went on a lot of night with compass and things like that that we would have to do if we were in combat. Just a lot of training.
And then following that 13 week period you had additional?
As an officer you were commissioned, but then you went through additional training where you even were more involved in to see--then you went maybe to a different group so you weren't with the same people, because you hoped to be assigned to this or that. And, again, I tried -- applied for aviation, not flying, but being in that field in some way, but I ended up in infantry.
Did you pretty much realize that that was going to be where you would be going?
Yeah. Yeah. Most everyone did. Not many people would get into that type of thing. Some who applied for artillery or something like that probably got into that, because that was part of the Marine Corps.
So, how soon after that last episode of training were you actually deployed?
I was given I think a ten day--ten days to report to California.
Did you get to come home?
So I was able to go home for--worked out an arrangement so that my flight would go from Quantico to Princeton, Indiana, and from then on out to California.
You were one of the lucky ones who got to fly.
Yeah, I really don't remember just how--that was so far back I don't really remember how we did that except--I remember I had a layover in Chicago. I think maybe I went by train. Yeah, I think I went by train, but I had orders, you know, and papers and I had report. I didn't--so I could--I made my arrangements. Fact is, I believe they probably made my arrangements for me so I could report there on time, but then I reported to Camp Pembleton, California, and I was put in a replacement draft there. I think it was 37th replacement draft, as I remember.
You had a very long train ride across the country, didn't you?
Yeah.
Was it a typical troop train?
No. I was on my own. I didn't--in Korea when I went on a troop train that was different, from Evansville to there, but this I was on my own. I was just a serviceman traveling, so...
Had you been in California before?
No, I had not. So, it was an experience. And I spent about--I think in California about three months, something like that, because we were--fact is, when I went there they put me in a 37 millimeter anti-tank unit that I was training for. We went through it was an eight or nine week training, I believe. We went down to almost the last week, and we were out in the field firing, and all of a sudden they stopped everything and here came a jeep with a General's flag on it. We all fell in and he announced that this unit had just been disbanded, that the 37 millimeter anti-tank tank was obsolete, being replaced with the 57 millimeter. And so we were abandoned to different units.
And stopped training immediately?
Stopped training on that and I went into a replacement draft, and then we had hurry up field maneuvers with that, and got aboard ship after about three weeks I think we took off.
My gosh. You left San Diego, Camp Pembleton, I suppose. Then where did you head to? Actually, what kind of ship was it? Was it a commercial liner?
It had been--it had been a commercial ship at one time, but they turned it into a troop ship.
I take it there were probably a large number of troops on board?
Oh, yeah.
I know some of them carry thousands and thousands of men.
Yeah. I remember we went to--we stopped at Hawaii on the way over. We got in there late in the evening and the next morning we got off ship, the unit I was in charge of, we were able to get off the ship and take calisthenics on the dock and then back on the ship and off we took. So, we were to be a replacement draft for a group that was going into Iwo Jima. We were to be the second wave beach party. And we were rendezvoused in Eniwetok Harbor, and between Hawaii and there, then we understand that this was what we heard, that we were being not attacked but possible attack by submarines, Japanese submarines. So we were being escorted by some destroyers and that type of--went around outside of the troop ships dropping death charges and so forth, and we were zigzag course and all that, but which delayed us by about a day. So, we missed the rendezvous at Eniwetok Harbor. They pulled out in the morning and we got there about noon, so we missed being the second wave at Iwo Jima. The second wave, incidentally, was wiped out. They let the first wave get in. At least this is what we were told. So, I spent about 40 days in the harbor at Eniwetok waiting for further orders. All the troop ships did.
My gosh.
That's part of the fate of war.
How do you stay motivated? How do you stay in tune with them?
We were able to--Eniwetok, incidentally, is just a small, real small, island. You can almost spit across it. But they did have a tent set up and area and they built--they had some beer there. And those 40 days, I think everybody got to go off shore about two times, two or three times, and, you know, have some beer and fellowship and all that kind of stuff. So, from there we went to Guam, which was a staging area, and out of that then they would send you to different units where battles were being fought. That was where the Marianas were being waged at that time. So that's pretty well how my World War II went.
Can you tell me, though, what were your principal assignments once you got over there.
Well, once I left Guam we went to Saipan, and Saipan had been taken after Guam I guess, so there were still Japanese in the hills of Saipan. So, I was in charge of patrols that we would run out through the hills to try--and we had a Japanese interpreter with a loud speaker and we would go out and try and bring them in. Occasionally we would get one or two would come in out of the hills. But then we would set up ambushes at night, because they were still out there, and they would come in at night into the camps and depos and get food and horde stuff and they come in. So, we knew that and we would go out days and run patrols and try to loud speaker them to come in. And then--
Typically were these just stragglers for the most part?
Yeah. Ones who had been--the island had been taken, supposedly, but there were a lot of them who got bypassed or who had gone off in the hills and hid. So then we would run--those that wouldn't come in that area, why, we would set up--towards evening we would set up ourself in a line where they probably come across and try to come in to get food and things from the camps. And we would put--hang cans on wire so someone come across we would have--of course, our fields of fire would be across that area, so if anything tripped them out there, why, a flare would go off and we would _ out. And we were pretty successful at that. We had several that came in and captured and some that we shot otherwise.
Did you have serious injuries in your company?
Yeah, we had some casualties, but it wasn't massive casualties like when you take them out. You know, it wasn't that. You would have--we had not many, but I would say we had a few little skirmishes that someone might get hurt. I don't think, in my particular unit, I don't think I lost a man. I had a couple, three injuries but...
Can you think of a couple of instances that really stick in your memory about this time?
Well, there is a couple I really don't like to talk about.
Okay.
We weren't very nice. After you are over there a while like that some of your own men become pretty brutal yourself. When our annulment on some of those that they shot, souvenirs become very attractive to people. And that was always kind of disgusting to me, but it worked both ways, unfortunately, but some of those that we had shot during the night, the next morning our own men would get souvenirs off of them. I don't know if that's so bad but, as I think back to it, it didn't seem really right. Those things probably would have--but I don't know that you could have ever returned them to their families or anything. It was, actually I guess--then later, after we pretty well secured, we felt we had everybody on the hill that we were going to get out, we became in charge of the POW camp, and I was one of the officers in charge of that. We did what we called island command. We were island police more or less. For the last part before I came home that's what we were doing, patrolling the island, to keep our own people, as well as we had the prisoner of war camp that we maintained also.
Can you tell me something about the conditions in one of the US camps, one of the US staff camp facilities.
Prisoner of war?
Yes.
Well, actually, there I can kind of brag. I thought they were treated very nice. We were very civil to them. And those who had skills, like a lot of nice picture frames and things like that from the Japanese men who had skills, and those type of things they were able to do. Of course a lot of the men, our men who were running the camps, were able to have some of those. The fact is I have a picture frame that came out of that still at home, that one of those that they made in the little shop that they had there, but we treated them very nice. Had good food. That I am kind of proud of. I think that--by proud of, I think that we were very civil to them.
I suppose the Japanese there, they had no indication of the progress of the war?
No. Not really. The ones in contact with, they were just--they didn't know what was going on. They had been soldiers and they had been told to fight and after you had them in that camp awhile became buddy buddy. You know, they weren't going--they were just nice people, became that way. I still say though, I can't help it, I am still kind of a red neck towards the Japanese, but after you have been through that, I still have trouble buying a Japanese car, I like to buy US made, but I have no real feeling towards them otherwise, actually really, except it's just something for me to overcome. It's ingrained in me.
So, how did your World War II experience come to an end?
Well, I had enough time over there, I guess. I got sent home. I went home by troop ship.
When did you come out of there?
Oh, I guess it was in late '45.
So, was the war still going on at that time?
No. They had dropped the bomb.
Can I ask you: Where were you when you heard about the bombing?
I was on Saipan.
Were you anticipating a possible invasion?
No. We didn't think--we had--it had been a long time since we had seen any Japanese planes. We knew they were pretty well out of it.
I mean, did you anticipate that you would be going to the Japanese mainland?
Yeah, that was a possibility, yeah, but you would never know. We hadn't been told that we were because we were running this island command and prisoner of war camp and so forth by that time. This or that, been the patrol, get through the patrolling and all that.
Did you have any inkling of the magnitude of _+
No. No, I didn't. I had a friend who was over on Tennie (ph), and we were able to visit a time or two, who was in the Air Corps. The B17s I guess they were then. We would see them go off in the morning, hear them drone off in the morning, and later in the day we would see them come back maybe with their engine out, and things like that, but they were--that was early. Later on, of course, why, they didn't even have that. I guess towards the end as we were coming home, by the time we were getting ready to come home.
Did you have to stay there long after the war actually ended?
No, not really. I don't think so. It wasn't too long after that that we got rotated home and when I came home I came home by troop ship. Landed in San Diego.
I am sure that that was a pretty happy ride home.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was a large--had been a luxury liner that we came home on, but that had been converted troop ship. And it was--the only exciting thing about that is we ran into hurricane, I guess, out--and they skirted around that, but even then this large ship I remember was, really, a lot of people got sick. Even though we went around it, we weren't in the eye of it.
How did you fare with that?
I didn't get sick. I had two incidents like that the time I was in. One time we were--we were making a landing, and we were staging about a mile or so off the shore, waiting for our time to go in, and it was really rough. And the Sergeant--this was on these little landing crafts. We had a platoon. I was the head of the platoon at that time. I was a Lieutenant. And after we had been rendezvousing out there, up and down, around and so forth, waiting for our time to go in. Sergeant said, Lieutenant, I think everybody on this boat except you and--ahhhh--got sick. I bet I was the only one left that wasn't sick, so, but and I didn't get sick on the troop ship either that time.
So you got to come home.
Right.
Did you enter civilian life then?
Yeah. I came back and shortly after, again, I was given--from San Diego, I was given orders to report to Great Lakes Naval Station, and I was given a certain time, I don't know. I was able--I met my--came back to Indiana State, went back to school.
Did you use your GI benefits then?
Yeah, I believe I did. Yeah, I think I did. Finished off that last--I had less than a year to do, so...
Now, did you stay--you stayed in the Corps at that time, correct?
Well, they just released you. You didn't--officers didn't get discharges. They released you.
Oh, really.
I was in the reserve. So I finished school and when I finished school I got a job--first I got a job over in Arthur, Illinois and before I fulfilled that job the one in Evansville opened up, and so they released me over there to come to here.
What school was that?
Arthur. Oh, here, Central High School.
Central High School. That was in downtown Evansville at the time?
The old Central downtown. I was an assistant coach and taught physical education and assisted in football and basketball and then golf coach that year, too. So, I was there three years, and about the second year or so I was there I had a call saying that they were going to start a Reserve Unit in Evansville, and they wanted to know if I, and a couple of the other guys that were coaches who had been in the Marine Corps, would come on active duty during Christmas vacation and do a little recruiting of the high school seniors. So that's when they formed C Company 16th Battalion here in Evansville. And we recruited high school seniors and anybody else that we could to be in that unit. It would be a long weekend, just like the National Guard. So, I had a ten day active duty period or something like that, and then the next year in the summer went to summer camp for two weeks, or a week or two weeks. I don't know. So, I stayed active that way by the active duty during Christmas vacation and going to a week of summer camp. So when the Korean War broke out I was at Indiana University working on a doctorate degree and all of a sudden I get orders that I am to report.
Tell me what this was like now. Surely everybody thought that just after World World II it's going to be a long time before there is going to be another conflict.
We didn't dream it was going to be anything.
So, how on earth did everybody cope with having to go again? All the folks back home, mothers dealing with yet another conflict. What was that morale like? I guess, did people even have a good understanding of what that conflict was like?
No, I don't think they did. People, you know, it was called a police action and people back here--it was serious for us, but a lot of people didn't consider it anything, I am sure. And then a lot of the enlisted men, these young kids, you know, they didn't have any idea they were going to be called in. We didn't have any idea they were. We didn't, we didn't go out and try to enlist them for that reason, but I guess we should have known that that was a potential thing. But I didn't--like I say, I was a student, a graduate student at Indiana University, and I had heard, you know, I see the papers, that something was happening over in Korea so I did begin getting in shape. Hey, there are going to call me, and sure enough they did. And we left August the 28th from here by troop train.
How hard was it at that time with the civilian life? You were settled into the community and the job?
Yeah, see, I had had three years of teaching and coaching here at Central and University that summer, and I leave that. I had to take a couple exams early to finish my courses so I could get down here on time. And then we decided who was going to go on the troop train. I was just telling her out here, her brother-in-law Al Kerr (ph) or Carroll (ph)--my wife had just learned to drive a year or so before. So, Jim Rouche (ph) and his wife were going to drive out but I--toss of the coin, I lost, and I had to go on the troop train with the troops from Evansville out, I had to ride that, which was about a four or five day deal. So, they went in tandem together, and Al Carroll drove my wife out there with Jim Rouche and his wife. And just can't tell. So, we got out there then, Jim Rouche and, like she said, Al Carroll didn't go overseas, Jim Rouche got out there, he met his World War II commander, who was in Amtrax, and he got in Amtrax and that unit never was sent out of the states. But I was infantry and, boom, August the 28th I left here and September the 23rd I landed in Korea. And when we got off the plane, all along the runway of Campbell Air Base, which had just been completely demolished, they just had the runways _ , you could see the artillery fire landing all the way around there, not too far away on the edge of Seoul. This is outside of Seoul, see, which we went into the next day, but that was kind of--in three weeks' time, that's a little over three weeks, that's kind of a rude awakening.
That was a real harsh reality.
From civilian life to that, but in everything you can have--you can find funny things. When I got off the plane, I don't know how he knew it, but a buddy of mine from World War II from Rockford, Illinois, I heard this voice yell out, Hey, Tex, come over here. Here's officers' company. I thought, what in the world and who is this? It was Freddie Aromowitz and he was in D4, which is supply. He said, this is your building over here. It was a shell hole. He said, you spend the night here. Of course then on the next morning I reported to the unit and went into Seoul with them and from then I was in 3rd Battalion 5th Marine throughout Korea.
I take it you had much direct combat, right?
Well, when I reported in the Commander, Colonel Tappin (ph) had been a teacher in civilian life before himself, and I think he kind of--he said that first next morning, he said, asked what I did. I said I was a coach, teacher. He said, well, we are getting ready to pull out, he said, I am going to put you in charge of the rear unit and the interpreting staff, which would be the kitchen and all the supplies and interpreters and all that. He said, you are in charge of them. So, I didn't know who I was in charge of hardly, because I just--you know that--of course I right away met NCO and so forth and we took off. The only real thing of those first week that I can remember was we went through a village, and in that village they had like a bulletin board in the middle of--by village, I am talking about a few huts, a street that isn't a street, and a bulletin board that announcements are on and so forth. People are all gathered around there and a lot of chatter in Korean, which I couldn't understand. I asked the interpreter, what's going on? He said, they got three communists there. I said oh. About that time here they come with these three communists, they marched them out of the village to the edge of the road there. Boom, boom, boom, they shot them. I said, who said they were communists? He said, they all say they were communists. Well, they had a quick trial. And that was kind of an awakening right then. Then that same day then one of our men from Evansville, in going across a field, got killed. Stepped on a land mine. So, it was right away we realized we were not over there on games.
Did you feel hampered that it--with the police action, did you feel that you were kind of limited just as to what the US's role could be?
No. Not really. Just I tell you when you are in that you don't really know all the politics of it. You are there and you're kind of survival and you're doing what has to be done and all that. Oh, there were a lot of comments we were in a police action and rhubarb back and forth, but you don't really realize exactly what's going on.
It was a very political situation.
Yeah, it definitely was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Were you aware of that at all?
Yeah, yeah. I was aware of it, but at the same time I am part of it so you are going to have to make the most of it. Of course, your commanders were having rhubarbs back and forth. General McCarthur and all that was going on, you know, about he wanted to go all the way and Truman restricted him. And I always, in my mind, I said, wait a minute, our commanders are over in Japan. How do they know he would come in, you know. There were a lot of things about it you question in your mind, but you just have to make the most of it, so...
Was there a defining moment for you in Korea?
No, not really. The first real serious--I had gone from the--after the first week, I had gone from being in charge of that, back when we first got the first place being settled, Colonel Tappin come in, I want to assign you to intelligence and what I became actually was an officer runner. But I would set in on--every time we would set up for the night I would set in on where everything was and the maps, and then I would take them from battalion back to regimental headquarters, and then from regimental headquarters, which you never knew where it was going to be, I would bring back any information. So, I was a runner, more or less, with the vital information of what was happening and hadn't been doing that too long. They called it liaison officer is what it was. So, the night Chosen Reservoir, when we really got lambasted that one night and I had just left. We had a tent set up where we had gone over all the overlays, where item company was and George company and all that. I had it all tucked in my PO jacket and had just left the tent when everything broke loose, and the bugle was playing and the flares went off. They overran item company and Major Canny (ph), who I just talked to a few minutes before, got hit by a grenade and killed him, and I was 50 yards away and regimental headquarters were about 500 yards or so back down the road. So, I was going to be walking down to there. I, of course knew that, fell and rolled into a ditch and laid there until I get my senses of what was going on, and eventually I could see, well, hey, I got to head on back to regiment. They are going to wonder what this is. We did have some field phones but they weren't always reliable. Of course I had nothing. I just had orders and overlays and things and I was going to get back, and so I did that. Next morning I came back to my unit, and it was probably the only other officer from Evansville, and he had been in item company, one of the two _ that got overrun. And I saw him, and I said, how are you, Mason? He just--he had had one of the most percussion grenade to go off close to him and he was just out of it. He just was looking off in space. He did recover and went ahead and filled out his time there but after he had that go back in reserve for awhile. But then from then on it was just up and back and take this hill. Then I went from liaison officer to weapons company and served as executive officer in weapons company. And while I was in, that's where I earned the Bronze Star.
Can you tell me about the circumstances of that.
Well, I didn't even know I was getting that but, anyway, in performing that later on I received that. The thing that I supposedly got it for was when-- (Discussion held off the record concerning parking arrangements.)
That we had--they were trying to take a hill, and I took a unit of 81 millimeter mortars so we could give support to them, and lobbed shells over in front of them so they could take that hill. And so we had moved into this area and supposedly it was land mined, and so they said, they had warned me you won't be able to go in there. Well, the only way we were going to support them is if I could set my mortars up in that area so I could get them into that area. So, I just told the guys, I said, hey, look, I will go first and you come along behind me and you step where I step. I didn't know whether I was stepping on mines or not. It was dumb. So we got in there and got our mortars set up and we were able to give them good support, and we were able to take the objective and everything and worked out just fine. Later on, fact is, when I came back to the states I was sent back to Quantico and I was told I was to report for the parade one--first or second week I was there, so I did, and they awarded me with a Bronze Star then. It read, you know, for leading in combat, so on, so forth. I don't know.
After Korea then were you able to return to civilian life again?
Right.
And had a long career here.
Yeah, I have been back here. I came back to Central and before I ever got home I had call from the principal wanting to know if I would be department head in physical education and would I want to be assistant in football or basketball. I would have liked football except football was out of Bosse Field, and if I was going to be department head I wanted to stay near the gym and so I took assistant in basketball and then later became head basketball coach. About two or three years I became head coach and I was head coach from '53 until I quit in '64.
Well, looking back at your time in the military, you were in that time period of service and those two, World War II and Korea, and that was just the timing of your service.
Right. I was the right age to be in the right place for two times. And I had been lucky as well as unlucky. I think about maybe I was unlucky in that I had to do it two times. I have got two boys and neither of them had to serve. But I came through it and I think probably I was better for it because I did come through it. I don't know. I know I lost economically, I lost by the years. I served a total of probably six or seven active years in the military, World War II and that, especially in Korea. While I was over there the guys back here were making money and I was making $150 a month as an officer or something like that.
So, how would you, looking back at this time, you spoke of your time in the military, but in terms of what you were part of, in terms of what the military was able to accomplish during that time, how do you--what are your thoughts about that, both in World War II and Korea?
Well, in both cases, especially World War II, I felt like, hey, look, it's my duty and I couldn't say anything else during World War--or during the Korean War, actually, because I had become active--I had become active when I said, yes, I will go on active duty during Christmas and, yes, I will go to summer camp. I didn't--had I not done those things I probably--I would have been called back but I would have missed the Chosen Reservoir and all that, because when I came back to Korea I was sent to Quantico to be in charge of some of the officers who got called back that never got over there, which they finally disbanded. They never did anything with them, but they called them up in case the thing went on. So, I would have been in that category, I suppose, but since I--now I got through it and everything, why, I don't really have any regrets.
No?
No. At the time I did what I thought was the best thing, so, you have to live with that.
Thanks so much for doing this. It's a pleasure to meet you. It's an honor. Thank you, sir.