Encoded for the Experiencing War web site for the Veterans History Project.
The entire interview with Ed Godwin was digitized.
This transcription was encoded with minimal changes to the original text in an effort to preserve original content and idiosyncrasies of the person interviewed. Period language and terminology are also retained. Encoding is literal with regard to the transcriptionist's capitalization, punctuation, and spelling. Spelling errors are indicated with [sic]; however, recurring errors in spelling within a single document have been marked the first time and not subsequently.
What were your, what was your highest rank and where, where did you serve during that time?
I was, the highest rank I had was a Commander, uh, I was a junior ensign when I went aboard ship, the destroyer, and I spent four years on it, and I came off as a two-striper. Uh, four years later, and, uh, I went on a retired reserve status, and, uh, was recalled during the Korean Campaign, and I was sent to Washington, D.C., the Pentagon, which, to me was - maybe I shouldn't say this, but I thought it was worse than combat duty as far as being a junior lieutenant and all the admirals and stuff like that.
Now, where, where did you grow up?
Beaumont, Texas, is my home, I went to Southport High School there, and I went to Lamar College two years, then I went to Texas University the last two years. I joined the Navy Reserve when I was a junior, the B-7 Reserve, which was the only one at the time that guaranteed I could finish college; I'd worked my way through and I really wanted to graduate, so that's the reason I went the Navy way, frankly. And I'm glad now that I did.
When, uh, do you remember when you really, when you, you went to the Navy full time? I know, you were going to college initially, but could you explain your experiences when you went into it full time?
You mean, when I went to Midshipman School, for instance?
Yes, sir.
I left Beaumont, Texas, they sent me up to Notre Dame Midshipman School in South Bend, Indiana, and they worked us over real good for four months. The Marines trained us, and we came out as what they call "ninety day wonders," and then they sent me to New Orleans after I finished what you might say, boot camp. But I had made ensign on a probationary basis when I was at Notre Dame, and, uh, they sent me to New Orleans, uh, at Shell Beach, which we were training, uh, Russians and Americans on antiaircraft guns that the Navy had. I spent four months there waiting to be recalled and then they sent me to Harvard Supply School in Boston; I spent six months there. Uh, they transferred me from a line officer, which was a star, to a supply officer, and I was really disappointed in that 'cause I really wanted to be a hero like Kennedy and the rest of 'em. But, actually, uh, I learned more when I got out by going through Harvard Business College; it helped me a lot in my career after I, uh, got out of the Navy. Uh, I was an independent supply officer aboard a destroyer, and the only thing I didn't like about it, I was sent to Bermuda to pick up my ship the first time, and I was at, at Normandy about three days later. I had no idea where I was going or what I was doing, I had no - anyway, we went through D-Day, and, uh, which you don't forget very well, and we were spot-firing for between the U.S.S Texas and Omaha Beach, where she was firing her big salvos. And I, uh, was fr-, we were frankly scared of her firing than we were the Germans, because it was an old battle wagon and it wasn't completely hitting the target like it should have.
Now, kind of going back a little bit, you said you were a "ninety day wonder." Uh, could you go into a little bit more detail, did that mean you were rushed through training quicker than you would normally have been rushed through if you were in peacetime?
Yeah.
And, and what was that experience like?
"Ninety day wonder": we took twice the amount of courses that most ensigns would maybe take at the Academy, and, uh, that's what they, uh, they was due to, a lack of officers at the time is why they pushed us through, only thing I had at the time was a college degree, and, uh, so they taught us everything they could in ninety days. Well, the first thirty days, I was apprentice seaman, classified as a boot 'prentice seaman, and they worked us over real good with the Marines and all that kind of stuff and, uh, if you didn't, uh, pass the thirty day trial, you would be sent to Great Lakes as a sailor. Otherwise, we pass that, you go in, it's two more months training as an officer in the Navy. So we had a rushed, they pushed all that stuff down our throats for ninety days.
Was that a bit overwhelming at times?
Beg pardon?
Was it, uh, overwhelming, getting all that information pushed on you so quickly?
Oh, sometimes, yes. But a lot of stuff they were teaching, just like some universities I know, uh, they give you some courses you don't really ever need in a certain way down the line. But it was overwhelming, particularly when you're coming from a Southern college and you're mixing with a bunch of people from all over the state, all over the United States, and you know, the military services then had a knack of sending the Southern boys up North and the Northern boys down South for training. Uh, but I came out about 20th in my class as a, as a, in my situation, and when I went to Harvard, I was number one in my class at Harvard University. I'm proud of those two. Compared to Harvard graduates, you know, the cream of the crop.
Was that, when you went away, was that the first time you'd left home for an extended period of time?
Well, I went to Austin, Texas, went to college, yes, my first time I'd ever really been away from home any amount of time under severe circumstances in a way. We knew we were going to war, but, uh, I never will forget we were doing exercises in the snow, and I don't think I ever done that before.
You said, then, you went to, uh, Shell Beach to train, Russians and U.S. Navy personnel on antiaircraft guns? How, what kind of experience was that like, working with Russians and knowing what was going on in the Soviet Union during World War II?
Well, we learned they, they had been under terrific exposure, uh, to give you an example how much they were under pressure, we used to tow a sleeve over the target by plane, and they were shooting at the plane more than they were the sleeve, and it knocked the wing off one of our planes, thinking the real Mccoy 'cause they been fighting, I guess, two or three years before we got to 'em. Uh, they were very conservative; they didn't mix much. They were really worried about their being alive as a nation before it was over with, 'cause the Germans were always, were way up to Stalingrad, almost, by that time. But they appreciated the training we gave 'em, 'cause they became better gunners as time went along, and they were glad to get out of Russia. You know, uh, combat ready, most of 'em were already in combat when they came over to, to the course.
And, uh, then you, you, you went to Harvard, and, and was that kind of a strange experience because, you're, I guess you're still in the military, but you're not, it's not quite a military situation. Was that...?
I felt Harvard, for what I've know of it, was very prestigious, it is. I, then I had another break. I guess I, when I go somewhere I don't know, I've never been there before, I look for somebody who might have come from part of my country. And I got to talking, there was a guy there that was a two-striper that was commissioned reserve teaching in a Navy Supply course from the University of Texas, and I, every time I get a bite on some of my curriculum or something, I go talk to him. He was very friendly, just like everything you got going to college or anywhere, if you know somebody that'll help you when the right time comes, well it was very helpful to me, and, uh, uh, it took the sting out of, the way again, being at Harvard, Harvard has an excellent reputation, and I still feel the same way about it. Uh, I wish people would really look at you when you say you've been to Harvard, you know.
And graduated number one in your class.
Yep. There's 600 of us. I had the best choice duty, I really wanted a destroyer, that's what I got. But I didn't want it that quick into combat, though; I wanted to learn a little bit more about it
Could you describe that a little bit, you're, you're given the destroyer in Bermuda, and then, uh, how, how was that, taking over the ship for the first time? How did it make you feel, your first command?
I was lost. Even though we had the curriculum - they taught us supply and dispersing courses - urn, it was different really doing it and going through class, like it is any university. Again, I had a storekeeper, though, somebody that knew what he was doing, who I still, he and I communicate today, he kept me out a lot of trouble 'bout, we carried a million dollars cash aboard ship all the time. We were the flagship of a division which was six ships, so we had the admiral and the money aboard our ship, extra responsibility, and, uh, I sure grew
Now, in terms of, how, after you took over the ship in Bermuda, did, did it have a name or, just was it DE-753?
Cates, U.S.S. Cates.
U.S.S. Cates.
It was named after a young sailor that was killed in a bombing aboard ship, and, uh, it was, that's how they generally do it, it's a battlewagon, they name it after states, you know, stuff like that, but he had a terrific war record, and, uh, they just named it after him, and, uh. We were lucky to be a flagship of the division because of having the admiral aboard; he added a lot to what we were really, our mission and all. He carried his own staff with him, everywhere he went, you know, and, uh, he got to communicate with a lot of guys that we were really interested in, to know what's going on among the fleet. We used to chase submarines, too; it was one of our main duties between times. We took ship's convoys.
Yeah, that's, that's gonna be my next question: how, how quickly were you thrown into the con, into convoy duty?
Well, uh, it was, we zigzagged most of the time, and I tell you, if you can ride a destroyer, you can ride anything, 'cause you're under water more than you're on top of water. And, uh, I never forget the first sub contact we had, it was underneath me, and we thought it was a sub, 'cause the whales sometimes, sonar could completely identify a whale or a submarine completely like it does today, it does. And, uh, I remember the first time we thought we had a submarine underneath us on that destroyer, that's the funniest feeling I - only thing that saved me in a way, and this may sound silly to you - but I, I had just finished at the university, uh, Hell Week for seven days, and it was pure hell. And I figured, well, if I could take that, I sure could take whatever this guy's got underneath me. So, it took the sting out of it. Well, we got the sub; we used ashcans and stuff like it to blow it out of the water. We got credit for her sinkage, and, uh, we got another later on, so we got credit for two subs.
Uh, and how often, were those the only two times you had contact with subs on convoy duty? And, and how many trips back and forth across the Atlantic did you make? Do you remember?
Made four runs. Seven to ten days, but usually one or two hundred ships in a convoy. We zigzag while the rest of 'em were going, but, the most they could move, though, was about eight, fifteen to eighteen knots, and we could move twenty, twenty-five knots is what we could zigzag well, you know. Uh, in those days, the Germans moved in patterns together, "wolf packs," they called 'em, and usually get one, you can probably find some more right there with 'em, and they were really tearing up the ships going over to England, convoy runs for about two years 'till the destroyer escort came along, and a lot of 'em were made in Orange Texas, close to us here, a lot in Pensacola area, uh, and they were designed to do just what we did is chase 'em down, and I think they changed the war in a lot of ways, uh, in fact it saved a lot of ships by killing the submarines that we were after, and they were just knocking us out until we got into service. We take credit for it, anyway.
A lot of historians give you credit for it, too. So it wouldn't just be you, you thinking that. Uh, in terms of like the weather, you, you hear about, a lot about that, that Atlantic weather, especially in the winter, about how bad, could you describe a little bit of that? Did you have any bizarre experiences with the weather, or just, was that a constant?
We made a Russia, made a run to Mirshik, Moscow, not Moscow.
Murmansk.
Yeah. Murmansk on the North Atlantic, that's the worst trip I ever made. It wasn't so much that it was really icy and weathery, and I mean, you almost had to cut your way through there like you do in the Great Lakes area sometimes. But we were worried about the aircraft from Germany, they were flying on us, and they had their submarines in there, so we had two or three things to watch for at one time. Well, we lost 50% of our ships from New York to Murmansk, and, uh, that's a lot of tonnage. We tried our best to keep 'em from being sunk, you know, but that was our job. Well, we were glad to get out of there 'cause it was so miserable, cold-wise. Even when we got to Russia, we had all the tanks and stuff for them, lend-lease, they wouldn't even let us go ashore. And here we'd been in these rough seas for about eight, about I guess a year, from Atlantic back, they wouldn't even let us come up to their dock area; we just unloaded and left. I don't know, I kind of resented that, in a way; here we're giving 'em stuff. But that's just my personal feeling.
Did you have any trouble, any trouble with seasickness?
No, sir, I was lucky, and I don't mind telling you why. I, I think seasickness is a mental situation. I can prove it because I had a guy, in the old days I had a mustang and it came up through the ranks, and us reserve guys, we call 'em reserve, ninety day wonders coming aboard. He took one look at me and said, "I'll bet you five dollars you'll be seasick before we get out of the breakwater." And when, when he told me that, something clicked in my mind, I said, "You ain't gonna catch me like that, man." And I think he helped me more than he hurt me by saying that. And I went, made the first trip over, I took twelve shots, in my arms and all, plus never getting seasick. And I thank the Lord for that, 'cause I've seen enough of it, you know, where it can tear you up, and, uh, and, by, by the way, I, if you don't mind me talking a little bit about this, this man, he, he became an admiral, uh he was a two-striper when I first met him aboard our ship. I was in Philadelphia being discharged after the Korean War, and I saw this guy walk across, he was a full admiral with two aides he had with him, and I saluted him, and when I got about up to here, I realized he was, he was the guy that told me I was gonna get seasick after. And he finally recognized me, I believe; I went across the street, and we started talking, say yeah. I told him, "I owe you a lot of credit, man, I never get seasick on anything, it was just the way you talked to me at the time." But he made an admiral, and I'm glad he made it.
Do you remember his name?
That's okay, if you don't, you don't, that, that's all right.
I've forgotten.
Okay. Uh,
I've had an operation, on this side for memory, I think they cut out some of my memory right along with it.
I wanted to kind of move next onto, onto D-Day. And now, you, from the way it looks here, it's almost like you went fairly quickly from Bermuda to, to convoy duty into, into D-Day. Could you talk a little bit about how, how you kind of went into that situation? D-Day.
Well, we were with the fleet, we were with, a whole division of mine went together. We all met outside of Bermuda, and we went right on to Omaha Beach. We fell in with the rest of the fleet that was going, invasion fleet. Uh, I first told the admiral I had aboard ship we were supposed to spot fire, fire, which put us closer to the beach than most of the destroyers in our division. We's only about a hundred yards away from the beach and we were perfect targets for the Germans. And, uh, it liked to scare us to death, we, they told us that, but then we got to hearing that U.S.S. Texas start firing, which she was, I guess, three or four miles away from us, uh, we could hear her shells going over us, uh, and a couple of 'em fell about, I guess, three or four hundred yards away from us, and that made it worse. But we luckily got out of there, the Air Force came along and they bombed Omaha real good back and forth, and just did away with the coastal batteries that the Germans had at that spot. And there were four or five landings made, you know, in all. But, uh, I never thought I'd ever see anything like this or, I've seen some guys blown out of their boats, uh, we saw one ship our size blown out of the water. There's a lot of things that went on there that you don't, you know ... But, that's war. Once you accept that fact that it's war, well, that's the way it really was -I don't, we were lucky. We, we thank God for it.
So nobody on your ship was hurt during D-Day?
No.
Now, when did you, did you know when you were going to cross the Atlantic that you were going to go straight into that, or did, when did you kind of realize something big was up?
I think when we went out of
Had you, had you, had you ever seen anything like that many ships? I mean, was it, was it just like, overwhelming, the number of ships and planes and men you were seeing?
One other time was when we went into Tokyo Bay. We had about a thousand ships outside in the China Seas, and when they dropped the A-bomb, the first bomb, we were ready to go in, and then they surrendered when they did, and we still didn't believe they did it. So I was with Bull Halsey then, 7th Fleet, and we went - my skipper and Bull Halsey used to, uh, yacht together in California, and he always called my skipper to do a lot of extra duty that, 'cause they knew each other's seamanship pretty well, and we were the first ship that went into Tokyo Bay, and well, that was kind of hairy, 'cause the mines were still there. We were supposed to be clearing the mines, and, uh, luckily, we got through there without any trouble where he could bring the battle wagon in and drop his anchor on. So, and when we did, we were only about a hundred feet away from the signing of the surrender process. But you know the Marines, after we went into Tokyo Bay, we waited two weeks before they ever went in - they went in, but they sat on a beach, they still didn't believed Japan had surrendered. And, uh, then the Air Force came along, and parachuted into Tokyo, and those towns in there, and they started rape-, oh, I won't get into it, tearing up everything where they went, and, uh, we officially approved of the fact that Japan had really surrendered, and, uh.
Well, what was the kind, finish, like finish up Europe and go, then go to Japan, because I definitely want to talk about that, that, I, I think that's very important. Uh, but, any other comments about D-Day? I mean, did you, did you feel, like sorry for anybody? Did you feel, I mean, you, like, obviously you were that close to the beach, you saw the pounding the Germans were getting. What kind of, did you, did you feel a bit sorry for 'em, or just feel ...?
Well, there was so much hatred at the time, uh, we had no idea what was going on with the Jewish people, I figured we knew more about that, we probably felt way worse than that, but an enemy to me was an enemy, that's what they taught us to look at, uh. I don't think all of us were born and raised to fight like that, uh, but it seems like it's been through history like that for centuries, so I don't think it'll ever change. Uh, somebody has to bite the bullet, so, well, we did.
Do you remember where you were when uh, when you heard about V-E Day?
I was in New York, uh -
And what was your -
I'm sorry. No, I was in Liverpool, when V-E Day was announced, and, uh, we were scared to go out the gate of the Navy, because the women and stuff was waiting for us to come out there and -
You were scared of, you were scared of the women?
No.
They were so many of 'em,
in a combat area; they were more interested in what our mission was. Of course, when Roosevelt died, we all were sad about that, and we were at sea when they announced the fact that he had died. And the North Atlantic, speaking of North Atlantic, is, there are some rough waters in there, too, uh, I think if you can stand that area aboard ship anywhere, you, you've done, you've done the best, you know. I was glad to get out of there when we went to the Pacific, it was a different ballgame.
I, yeah, I want to ask you about the Pacific. Were you kind of discouraged to be having to go over there, I mean, uh, because you had served in the Atlantic, and now you gotta go finish Japan off?
When we finished, when we finished V-E Day, we thought we were through. 'Cause we'd been out there almost two years. And, we got orders to go to Charleston, South Carolina, and when we knew that, we knew we were in trouble, because they changed our guns off, they gave us bare guns, caliber guns, we knew we were going to the Pacific. And then they sent us through Panama Canal, and, uh, we had some wild times at Guantanamo, 'cause we knew we were going straight out, and we did. We left Panama City, and went right on out to Hawaii, and then we met Bull's fleet right outside of Guam, with her, we traveled two or three different invasions with her before, and the Philippines, too. Uh, when we found out my skipper knew Halsey, we knew we were going everywhere
Did you ever, uh, meet him, personally?
Oh, yeah.
Any, any impressions of him? Or could you talk about the experiences when you did meet him a little bit?
Well, he was a bull, he's just a tough-talking, but he knew what he was doing, and the best ship handler I ever seen. And he handled that fleet better than anybody I've ever seen. They respected his authority, that was the key, and he had good relationship with his men, he always treated them, he never was high-horse or anything like that, and, uh, I found him a very pleasant kind of a person, you know, as far as, except that his bull-type personality, under combat, he's a different person under a real combat situation.
Did you, uh, did you take part in the invasion of the Philippines at all?
Yes.
Talk about that a little bit, please?
We went into Manila a week after they surrendered, and our job there was to clean up some of the places that had ammunition and stuff like that, so they sent us ashore, and we had a cruiser that went around, blowing up ammunition dumps and stuff like that, the Japs had. One thing I'd like to tell you about the Japs, though, they never, they never destroyed the nightclubs. They left everything like it was, 'cause boy, they loved nightlife - women, you know, and all. Uh, that was a break for us, 'cause, hell, we walked right into nightclubs that were still active and nice and not destroyed. Uh, we also
Now, you were, how long were you in the Philippines? When did you ship out, going to Japan?
About a month later, we were in the China Sea with the rest of the fleet. That's when she started accumulating all the ships up there. We were ready to take on Japan.
Was that kinda nerve-wracking, I mean, I'm sure you'd heard stories from other people about how hard the Japanese had fought, and, and I'm sure there was, was there
Uh, the Japanese'd be easier than fighting the damned Germans, I think.
Really?
Two different kind of ballgames. The Japs didn't care whether they got killed or not, I believe it was their religion, you know. But, uh, they began to weaken a lot in the sea, in the China Sea war battle, by the way. Uh, but I think what saved us was, a lot of trouble, was dropping the A-bombs on, uh, those two cities. And I thank Truman for that, because he saved a, a lot of lives with that.
Do you, do you, uh, do you remember hearing about that the first time on the radio? Could you describe that when you, you remember when you heard it on the radio?
Yes, yes. We didn't even believe they had the bomb, but I had a good friend of mine working on it in Chicago. He kind of kept me, off the record, what was
going on with that bomb when she was ... They'd already fired it in, uh, the valley, in Nevada area one time to see if it really worked, and, uh, so I knew we had it, but we didn't know where we were gonna use it, you know. But he put it in the right spot. I hate to see that many people killed all at one time, but, uh, that's just the way it is, you know. War's war, period. I sometimes think, between you and I, if we would've used that bomb over in, uh, North, uh, Korea, South Korea, when the Chinese came in. That's what Mac Arthur wanted to do, and we haven't won a war since then, in my opinion. It's all been political, we've lost territory, men, and all, just for politics, and, uh, I think that's a mistake.
Uh, do you, do you remember the reaction among, uh, some of the other men when they heard the news about the atomic bomb? Because I'm assuming not everybody knew about it, I mean.
Oh, they were happy, man, 'cause they knew, we get rid of 'em this way, we won't have to go in, 'cause we just finished, you know, some of us were already, some of the ships had, well, not D-Day, but we were, they had some veterans in there from D-Day. And we hated to go back through that again, you know, but we were, if we had to go, we had to go. But we figured when that happened, and the reports we got on the damage, we figured, well, man, that's gonna break their back. And it did.
Do you remember where you were when you heard about the, the Japanese surrender, and what your feelings were?
I think we were about sixty miles away from Tokyo Bay, and we had submarines all around us, we were Bull, with Bull, and Bull kind of set right out in front of his, his division, uh, like, like a lot of other guys sit in the back, but he was right up front all the time, just like Patton was with his routine. Boy, they were so much alike in a way, except Patton, I think was kind of a meaner personality I believe. But that's we were close to going in anyway.
Did you run into any kamikazes in the Pacific at all? Did you see any?
Any what?
Kamikazes, like, you know.
We had one hit, uh, water next to us on our fantail, and it killed one of our men that was standing by his gun station close to the ashcans. He almost got us in the fantail, which was my battle station. That's as close as one got to us, but we've seen 'em. 'Cause we were, we were in Iwo Jima, Okinawa, we right with Bull most of his campaigns. Uh, we, our duty there was strictly, uh, keeping planes from coming in the islands and stuff, and, uh, that was full-time duty with those kaze-type planes. They were crazy, they were made of, they didn't give a, you know, so you gotta watch 'em from
every direction, but they got, uh, some of the ships that we had there, and they were proud of that. That was kind of hairy, too, sometimes.
When, when you finally, uh, when you finally went into Japan, you had talked about how that was, in Tokyo Bay, it was very tense. Could you describe, what, what kind of emotions were running through your mind when you guys are going in there? I guess this is after the surrender, right, when you're going in there?
The Marines, they landed there, and they waited exactly two weeks, and we figured, well, when they told us that we could go in, we'd go in. Well, meanwhile, we were cleaning up, other ships along with it were cleaning up the mines that were in the bay. There must've been about forty, fifty ships in there at one time, and they signed a treaty, but the rest of 'em are still patrolling up and down the Japanese coast, but some of 'em were in the other ports before they knew for sure they'd surrendered. Most of the fleet was out, still standing off of Japan, going into other locations, and, uh, still not sure whether they already surrender or not. 'Cause they were really tricky characters in the first place, reminds me a little bit of, like, the Arabs the way they operate, today. But, anyway, we finally went in -1 was about the second guy that got off of my ship to go in Tokyo, and, uh, my skipper, by the way, knew a, a college fraternity guy in uh Imperial Hotel in Tokyo, and he got to show us part of Japan, he wasn't as hostile as he was during the war 'cause he had lost a leg; he was a colonel in the army, Japanese army. And he told us about some of the, we were interested in sightseeing. And I would never forget one thing, uh, when we went into Japan, uh, all the houses were completely level off the ground, because the Air Force precision bombing, but every house had a safe, about this size, and, uh, the families kept their jewels and stuff like it in there, that was the only thing that was left out of the house. And you could see safes as far as you could see. And it come to a geisha area on bombing, they knew exactly where the geisha area, Air Force, and anyway, it ran on over the geisha, left it there,
What, what was your first impression of the Japanese civilians you met, or you came into contact with?
Well, I'd been exposed to 'em before, going to the University of Texas, but, uh, I found they were very polite when I was around 'em, but I didn't trust 'em, 'cause I've seen enough stuff they'd done when you turn your back on 'em, raping women and stuff. They did, almost raped everybody at, at Guadalcanal and also other island they landed in. Well, the Air Force got that way, too, after a while, and I don't know whether it's for publication or not, for reciprocal-type deal, but they straightened all that out, but, I found 'em, the higher-class Japanese person was very polite, very cordial, very intelligent, hard-working type people. We went up to the volcano, my skipper and I - and we were out of military bounds, by the way, which we wasn't supposed to be - and, uh, wanted to live Japanese-style for two or three days, and we did. Slept on a brick, you know, type deal. We took our own food, though, 'cause I don't like the way they cure fish and stuff like that. Uh, we got a first-hand shot of how they lived. Oh, anyway, we made a mistake, I made a mistake, I went into a barber shop - and the war was just over three or four weeks - to get a shave. And I went in there, and I, they shaved me and when he got down to here, I got to thinking, well, hell, we just got through fighting this guy. He could kill, I could be, he'd cut my neck right there, throw me in the back of the barber shop, they never would've found me, you know. And, boy, I jumped, when I jumped, he nicked me. Just about here. Well, when I got out of that chair, I don't know whether it was worthwhile for something like this or not, but when I got out of that chair, the next morning, I broke out all over. Well, he shaved me too close; I don't know whether he did it on purpose or what. I says, "You're kind of stupid, Ed, let them do something like that to you anyway, you know." I said, "I thought we were all back at peace and harmony again." I'll never forget that, either, I just, uh. But you learn, they didn't seem to be a problem, they could've killed me right there, and I never would have, they would've found out I was out a military battle, I guess, sooner or later, you know. My skipper, though, was a pretty brave guy, just like Bull was. That's how we got away with it, I guess, knowing him, I guess, but Life magazine ... By the way, we brought some of those prisoners back to the United States and, uh -
You mean U.S. POWs in Japan?
Yeah.
Okay, sorry, go ahead.
You know Jesse Knowles who lives here was one of the, but I never met him until I, until we got here, but we fed 'em very, most of 'em weighed sixty, seventy pounds, and hearing 'em talk, it was something else to believe that the Japanese would do things like that, you know. But Jesse was fortunate, one of the local POWs from Japan, was, he had an opportunity to serve, cook rice and stuff for the Japanese, he had all kind of menus for making
Was it, was it hard to see those, those POWs, especially the way they'd been treated, I mean?
It was for me. Yeah. Most of 'em died after they got out, 'cause you gotta be careful. I was supply officer on that ship, and I was responsible for the diets, for the meals, and everything, pay, uh, the gas, the oil, everything else we used in the supplies.
But we had a hard time trying to figure what to feed 'em, because they'd been out of food for so long, you know, something like that. And, uh, we got 'em back to the States okay. They went right into hospital. Ships - we bypassed Hawaii with 'em, 'cause we didn't want to spend two more, three more days with 'em suffering like that, you know. That's it.
When, when you were in Japan, did the devastation kind of surprise you, I mean, because, I mean, did you get to go to Hiroshima or Nagasaki or just, just Tokyo?
Yeah. They knew what, the bombers knew what they were doing, most of Hiroshima and Yokohama was, most of their equipment, fire equipment and military stuff was in caves, and when we went into the caves one day, we saw all that stuff in there, that bomb, everything was left there when they surrendered, you know. But most of the cities in Japan, they still had under, under, like subway-type, people living below the ground level were doing okay as far as bombardment, stuff like that, you know. But I was surprised, at the, yeah the amount of, not surprised, I knew how it was in Germany, uh, but I, uh, their equipment, the way their houses were built, they were so, uh, not very strong to stand up something like that. And boy, they just ripped 'em out. And you know, that bombing of Tokyo, you know, off the carrier was a fantastic accomplishment, that really was a psychological, best move we ever did.
You mean the Doolittle Raid?
Doolittle Raid.
Do you remember hearing about that? You weren't in the military, yet, were you, you were still -
Oh, yeah.
Oh, you were? Okay.
Yep.
Yeah, okay. Um, any other stories you'd like to talk about, uh, about World War II before we kind of move on to, anything you think I forgot or something you'd like to mention, or just an anecdote or story you'd like to talk about?
I guess I've
Oh, no, like I say we -
It was very interesting. I was lucky to survive it. Just between you and I, we threw a monkey wrench into the engine by, in Mexico outside of, and we got a week's leave out of it.
It was a well-deserved week's leave, though.
But you know, we came and they come to Panama Canal where they tied us together, two destroyers, and we went through together. When we came out on the American side, or the Atlantic side, one, we told the ship skipper, the admiral told him, "You take off, we'll follow you." When he did, boy, he just scraped the side of our ship. And we thought, man, we get sunk right here in this lock, that'd've stopped everything coming home, you know. But there wasn't enough damage, he finally pulled away from us to where it didn't, took all the paint off the side, just about. Here we were at combat, they were shooting at us, and all had this, something like that happen to you at home, coming home. That was a funny
Now, what, what did you do when you, when you got back? After the war's over?
I was looking for a job, I guess, uh, I, my dad was a refinery man and, with Mobile Oil, and he wanted me to go to work for them, but no, I didn't want to go. I had my brother, my sister, two uncles, and my dad all in one plant. And I don't know about you, but I didn't want to work with one of my relatives right around me, 'cause everything I did ... So they got me a job with a oilwell, uh, supply company, that I, wanted to make a manager out of me, and when they did, they sent me to Odessa, Texas, out of Beaumont. And, uh, right about three months after that, I got a letter from Cities Service, which is now Citco; they had a job open in Personnel and Labor Relations, they wondered if I'd be interested in that job, I said, "Well, sure, I want to come home," and the job sounds like I was interested in it, so, my degree's in Business Administration, anyway, and I've lived around a refinery all my life, worked shift work with the rest of 'em and all. So I took it, and I came to Lake Charles, here, with that job, which I enjoyed a lot until I got recalled; I got recalled seven years later, 'cause I kept my commission, 'cause I didn't want to lose it, I was really interested in it. And, uh, when I got recalled, I went, spent two years on active duty in Washington, D.C., and when I came back the authority of the job, I was Assistant Personnel Director for the plant in Lake Charles. I had already over 5,000 civil service people in Washington
Now, when, when did you, uh, get married?
When I left Odessa, I married a girl I met out there and came to Lake Charles.
Okay, so you were single throughout the war?
Oh, yeah.
Did you, did you keep in good communication with her throughout the war, or?
I just met her after I went out there.
Oh, okay. Uh, now, uh, when, uh, when did you, when did you have an inkling you might get called back into the service with Korea?
I tried everything in the world to keep from going, 'cause I liked my job, good-paying job.
By this time, you were married, right? By, by Korea, you were at least, you were married?
Oh, yeah. I had two, three, two children.
Oh, okay.
I was too eager to get married, I guess, but I think a lot of servicemen came back and, what I mean is, uh, I guess I got married earlier than a lot of guys did when they got back. Too eager, in a way. And, anyway, I had two children, but I had a feeling I was gonna maybe be recalled 'cause I have a Industrial Relations/Personnel background, which deals with unions, and you know, the strongest union in the world is the Civil Service Union in Washington, D.C. They run the show in D.C., don't think they don't. And you know, all your secretaries are civilians, Secretary of War, Secretary of-and, uh, they do that for a reason, I think, but, uh, so that's why I got recalled almost at the end of this Korean Campaign. But they were getting ready to move my activity at the Pentagon, up to Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania, and I knew they were gonna lose 5,000 people making the move, 'cause a lot of 'em didn't want to leave D.C, which is the way it was, civil service. So I was involved in the recruiting for that, when they moved it up to Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania. And, uh, I fell in love with Pennsylvania, by the way, soon as I was up there, 'cause I was recruiting in the woods and everywhere, for machinists and welders to fill our vacancies, you know. Uh, that depot, that supply depot, was designed for, for small parts, for gun parts, sixteen-inch guns all the way down to antiaircraft guns. I don't know why I put that in there, but that's what they were doing.
Now, you, so you didn't, you weren't over in Korea, you were just here for the Korean War, but you were back in the service? Or did you go over to Korea?
No, no, I stayed in the States.
T. Beckenbaugh: Okay. You -
But I like to tell you one thing, if I may. I'd rather go overseas than hang around the Pentagon any day of the week.
Yeah, I was just gonna ask you about that. Could you, could you explain some of your experiences at the Pentagon?
Well, I was just a bellhop, you might say. I ran messages from one place to the other. Had very little, very little, uh, authority, 'cause there's so much rank there, and you always got a lot of politics going on there more than in a lot of other places I've been, and I'm not a, I guess I'm not a true politician like some of these people are. Uh, that's, I didn't enjoy it at all, really. I'd rather be over fighting somewhere instead of fighting that battle, you know.
And you were, I take it, you were glad to go to Mechanicsburg.
Yeah.
Okay. Uh, could you talk a little about, about recruiting? I mean, did you, what was it about recruiting that you enjoyed doing?
Well, we recruited for any type blue-collar job, and also for supervisors, uh, Philadelphia and all was famous for the aviation exposure, and we took some of their people that came to work for the ordnance section, which is where I was assigned. So we got some of our people from them, and already, we were Cities Service people. But we had to go into the woods and stuff, in old machine shops in Pennsylvania, to get the machinists to help design, uh, parts for our guns and stuff like that, and, uh, I don't know whether you know Pennsylvania, but that's a fine state.
T. Beckenbaugh: Well I'm from Shippensburg, so.
I like the food and everything. People were nice to us, the Dutch, I couldn't, their eating is much better I think sometimes than it is down here in our country. Uh, most of my recruiting, though, was mostly the civil service line, with maybe a GS-7 over in the aviation department, coming over, you know, competing for a job or a GS-9 with Mechanicsburg.
The, the Navy parts depot in Mechanicsburg, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, see, I grew up in Shippensburg, so I'm very familiar with that area. It's just about, uh, Shippensburg's fifteen miles south of Carlisle.
Yeah.
So I, I think you know where Carlisle is.
That's where Mr. Stark made all his -
Yep, that's, that is correct. Uh, now, you, you basically stayed in the military, were you in the military up in Mechanicsburg until 1969, or did you start kind of bopping around the country before then?
I was mostly - you mean, was I still in reserves?
Yes, uh-huh.
I stayed in reserves mostly on two weeks' training is how I stayed active. I kept my commission up, and my training, so I could go anywhere I want to in the country, and that's how I kept my rank and my education about the supply corps. I went to the University of Georgia two or three times, in Athens, I trained there. We went to San Francisco a lot of times to, ship loading and stuff routine. Uh, I have a perfect background for the Port of Lake Charles, but I never wanted to get in that political thing down there, uh, 'cause I really know how to load 'em, 'cause we loaded heavy-duty stuff for overseas at Oak, at Oakland, California. That's how I stayed active, though, I was running my businesses and staying in reserve the same time. And I used to go to Orange, Texas, just for two weeks' training. I had to do two weeks' training a year, and it made it kind of convenient, 'cause I'd go over there and I'd do my work 'bout two or three hours in detachment, get on back to Lake Charles. I just went back, did my work here in the businesses I had. But overall, I stayed up with my classes, my career -I was impressed with the quality of officers that stayed in through the reserve program, uh, some of 'em are doctors, lawyers, you name it. And, uh, I really got a lot out of that association, you know, I'm glad I stayed in like I did. My background was Personnel/Labor Relations work, and they were into law, and stuff like that, but they could, knew I was after retirement points by then, I had so many years in, I didn't want to, you know, lose that. And I thank the Lord every day I stayed in for that reason.
Now, it seems like you have been keeping very busy since you, since you left the military, looking at your, at the paper you gave me-
I've been in everything around, I was president of almost everything in this town. 'Cause I really believe, I looked at the mission of what each one of those were doing, the Cancer Society, YMCA, I'm a lifetime member of the Better Business Bureau, I believe in what they try to do, you know, stuff like that, and, uh, I'm proud of that civilian background. I, uh, I'm kind of an active person, I don't like to, seem like to see me walk through the door and there's a purser,
Do you keep in touch with any of your, uh, uh, uh, anybody that you served with, either in World War II or?
I've been to three reunions and everybody's as old and feeble as I am, I guess, but I had a chief cook on there, we communicate everyday, practically, by computers. Uh, he's a chef now in one of the big hotels in Montreal. My storekeeper I told you about kept me out of trouble at Normandy, eh, when I first went aboard, he's in Florida, and he and I talk to each other every day by computer, almost. I consider them real friends of mine. Somebody, I got a good friend in New Orleans that's run the Chamber of Commerce down there for a while, but he was a communications officer aboard a ship I was with. Most of my people have died, that I've been around, uh, but I, my reunions have been worth every time I went. 'Cause that's funny how people remember things of you that you've forgot. And, uh, I know one thing, uh, this chief, I saw an ensign at my last reunion remembered one time, we were, after we left Tokyo Bay, they made us go north in the Japanese Sea to, uh, destroy mines that were still floating. So, one day, I heard this Thompson machine gun - they were real popular in the Navy in those days, in the Army, too, I guess - he was trying to shoot this mine out of the water. You know, they had the prongs you've seen sticking up, you hit the prong just right, you can blow that thing completely. So I was walking, I had the duty, and I had my .45 strapped on me, and I told him, "Man, I'm from Texas. Let me try to see if I could hit that thing." And I took that .45 and I fired it one time, and I blew the thing completely out of the water. He couldn't get over that. He said, "I knew it was a lucky
When you, when you look back, is there any, any, uh, anything that you're just the, you're most proud of? Anything particular -
Well, I'm very proud of where I was when I graduated from Harvard. I was glad I was alive
Is there any stories that you, that I, I, didn't ask you about, or anything that you'd like to, to add?
No, I don't think so. It's nice to know people, since I've been on television, thank me for my service. That's about, about it.
Okay, folks, that -
I'm glad I'm a part of it. I'd do it again if they'd let me, if they'd let me go overseas again, if I had to. The Navy was good to me, and I, I'm proud of my career.
Okay, all right, fellas, I think that's a wrap.