Encoded for the Experiencing War web site for the Veterans History Project.
This transcription was encoded with minimal changes to the original text in an effort to preserve original content and idiosyncrasies of the person interviewed. Period language and terminology are also retained. Encoding is literal with regard to the transcriptionist's capitalization, punctuation, and spelling. Spelling errors are indicated with [sic]; however, recurring errors in spelling within a single document have been marked the first time and not subsequently.
Today is September 4, 2003. This is
You're welcome.
Would you state just for the record the branch of the military in which you served?
I was drafted in 1944 into the United States Army Transportation Corps which is called the Port Company. My Port Company was 165th Port Company. I was basic trained at Camp Upton, Long Island, New York.
Before we get to that, tell me a little about where you were born and raised.
I was born in Harlem in New York City, like I said 1925, July 4th or July 2nd. Which one did I have
Is she really? So the family name goes on.
It goes on. That's right. My family name goes back to 1843. The patriarch, my great, great grandfather was named Charles Pincham. He had ten children, five boys and five girls. My grandfather was the oldest of his children. His name was Pleasant Pincham. My father's name was Fredrick Douglas Pincham.
So your family had been in that area for a long time?
I'm sorry, my family originally was in Kentucky, but they moved to Evansville, Indiana.
You have lots of cousins?
Oh, yes, quite a few, quite a few, yes, yes.
What do you remember about school?
I went to school in New York, P.S. 89. That was on 135th Street and Lenox Avenue. My grandmother took me to Philadelphia when I was very young, and I stayed in Philadelphia until I was about 12 or 13 years old. Then went back to New York and lived with her because my mother and father were separated. I lived with my grandmother for a long time.
I see.
I was drafted. I lived at 33rd Street and Second Avenue in 1944. I remember my grandmother telling me that I had better go down and register because I was 18 going on 19. All my friends had gone into the service, and I said "okay." So I went down to register, and they took me right then and there. My family didn't see me until eight weeks after basic training. They said, "Oh, no, we're going to keep you." So that's what happened to me. Then from there, from Camp Upton, I went to Charleston, South Carolina. No, no. Oh, I'm sorry, I went to Indiantown Gap, Pennsylvania and from there...
Let's talk more about basic training. That was quite a change for you.
It was. As I remember, now this was 1944 and Camp Upton was a basic training camp during World War One and I trained on WWI equipment. I had leggings, you know wrapped around the legs. I trained with a 1903 rifle. It was traumatic, really.
Was it pretty rigorous physically?
Well, I looked at it as a camp. Being 18, 19, it was fun for me. You know, I didn't know anything different so it was all right. I didn't mind that.
Your sergeant wasn't mean or anything?
You're going back 60 years. It's hard to remember how it was. I didn't have any bad feelings about it either one way or the other, just went along with the program. That's all. So it was all right. I didn't mind that.
From there you say your next ...
I went to Indiantown Gap, Pennsylvania, where I trained as a checker. A checker checks the stuff coming out of the cargo hold of the ship. And that's what I did. From there I went to Charleston, South Carolina. Now, Charleston, SC, was a different experience all together for me.
How so?
Because there was prejudice and me being a black soldier I encountered that but I didn't really mind that 'cause I didn't go town but once. I went to the movie and you had to go up to the balcony. I went into town one time and said that's it for me. I stayed in camp because if I did
So you hadn't experienced that at home?
No, no, no, no.
Was yours a racially mixed neighborhood, or schools?
In New York? No. Yes, it was racially mixed because like I said my family, my parents had separated and at that time I lived with what I called my stepfather and he was a janitor. That means a person that took care of buildings, and we lived rent free and the apartment
Was your basic training, was that a racially mixed experience?
No, no, basic training was all black.
That was before integration?
Oh, yes, this was way before; this was 1944. They didn't integrate the services until 1948. We had white officers, usually from the south. And the sergeants and noncoms were all from the south also. See they had a policy in those days; if you were from the north, they'd ship you south and if you were from the south, they'd ship you to the north. See, so. The sergeants were usually, I call them, stupid. You know. They'd pick the biggest and the baddest guy and made them sergeants. A black guy, you know. And the officers were all white southerners, so that part was traumatic really, you know.
So in South Carolina were you in a different job or were you still
No, I was still doing that. And then they sent us overseas. We were on a train from there to Seattle, Washington. We boarded a ship.
The first time you'd been across the country?
Yes, the first time. They had a habit in those days, like if you went across the Mississippi River, you'd go over there at night. So you didn't see anything. You know, all the big areas that you wanted to see you couldn't see 'cause it was night. We got to Seattle, Washington; we got from the train to the ship. We got on board the ship where everybody had to go below deck. When we came up on deck, all we saw was water. That's all we saw. We didn't see the land or nothing like that. And we didn't know where we were going until we got half way across
Was the weather rough?
No, no, I don't know really. You see, like I said, I was 19 and everything to me was an adventure so I guess the water was rough 'cause the other guys got seasick. Not me. I didn't get seasick, but the other guys got seasick.
So you were sleeping in a hammock?
Yes, well not a hammock. Tier beds, you know. About five high stacked high. You know so.
You had like a mess hall or something?
Yes, we ate twice a day.
Twice a day?
Yes, twice a day.
Was the food okay?
I guess so, I didn't get sick.
But you did get on deck occasionally?
Oh, yes, we got on deck..
So you saw a lot of ocean?
Yes, a lot of ocean. First time in my life I saw that much water. But I enjoyed it.
So they told you where you were going about half way across?
Yes.
What did they say, do you remember?
They said we were going to Okinawa. I said what's Okinawa? It's an island near Japan. I say, "Really." I said, "Are they fighting over there?" They said, "Yes, they are fighting over there." So we got there. We had to go down those rope ladders. Let's see, we got there I think in the evening and...
You still got your WWI gun?
No, we had 30-30 rifles. They were carbine rifles we were using. And we had that and we had ammunition. We had different make. We didn't have a regular gun. We had other things. We had shoes with buckles on the side and...
You went down the rope ladder with your gun and your pack and everything?
Everything, yeah.
Helmet?
And we went on those boats and we went on the shore. We were told to keep our heads down because at that time they had air raids and things were overhead and they were shooting at them. So they told us to keep our heads down for shrapnel.
So did you actually get on to the beach or in the water?
No, we were on the little boats, and yes, got on the beach. We went to our bivouac area.
There wasn't any enemy fire?
No, no, no. And that's the only combat I saw during the whole war.
So had those battles already been fought?
Yes, right, right. But you see, that's the first time that I knew what dead people smelled like. There was a funny odor when we got there. We didn't know what it was. So they told us that they had just finished fighting and they hadn't buried the people who were killed. It's an eerie feeling. I'll never forget that. You see the people that were lying on the beach there, you know, where they were killed. They
Land mines?
Yes, land mines and stuff like that. Right, right.
So what was your bivouac area like?
Well, you saw the pictures
So your fighting was over. So what was the mission at that point?
The mission was to stay where you are and wait until further orders because the fighting was over, but there were still
There were some caves there.
That's right, there were caves there. Right. We were told not to go in the caves. Just in the immediate area until they got everything all, you know, quiet.
So you weren't doing your regular port job at this point? You were more of an infantryman?
Right. And then after that, I was doing my job as a cook after that. I didn't go on any ships at all.
How did your cook job come about?
Well, that was what I was trained to be, a cook. So that's what I did. I didn't do; what I really did was help the cook. I helped the cook. I didn't do any cooking myself. I helped him. I helped peel potatoes. I didn't peel potatoes but put them in a big bin and they'd spin around and the potatoes peeled themselves more or less. Yes, I was on K.P. Did stuff like that.
So how many guys were in your area, your unit there, a pretty big group?
Oh, I guess, a company, which is 24, I don't know something like that. I don't know really how many men. I really don't know.
And there were other companies?
Oh, yes, there were other companies hanging around.
Did you have any knowledge about what else was going on on the island? Did you know they were looking for the snipers hidden in the caves?
Right. We were told not to go out. We had our rifles. I remember one particular time that I had accumulated a lot of ammunition. And I said to myself, "The next day I'm going out and shoot a round, you know, shoot, just for shooting." Next day they confiscated everything. All the rifles, the ammunition. I said, well so be it. That's that. We were ready to go home then by that time.
You have an interesting sword that you acquired there. Tell us about that.
So this is a samurai sword?
Right, yes.
When was it that you got it?
About a week or two before we left. They had a point system whereby that's how you got to be coming home. A certain number of points, and you went home. They asked me did I want to re-enlist, and I said, not really because, I tell you why. During the war, things were different. Once the war was over, then you had to be so called "spit and polish" you know. I was used to the other way and so I said, "no, I think I'll go home."
While you were on Okinawa how did you entertain yourselves, just to keep busy or pass the time?
Well, I sent away and asked my mother or grandmother for a camera to take pictures. But by the time the camera came I was on my way home. Other than that, there wasn't much to do, you know, look around. I don't know, not too much to do.
There wasn't any entertainment?
No, no. Sometimes when I was in camp in the States they had the USO shows, but not over in Okinawa. At least we didn't see any.
Did you see any famous people in the USO shows?
No, you see, Bob Hope didn't come to entertain us.
You weren't on his schedule?
No, no, we had black entertainers. That's what we had. There were no interracial at that time. We're talking about 1944-45. There was nothing like that.
Were you able to keep in touch with folks at home?
Oh, yes, I wrote them letters. Oh, yes. I'm sorry I have no letters with me. They're all gone. I wrote as often as I could. Mail Call was very, very interesting. Very. We looked forward to that. That was very good.
Letters from home.
Letters from home. Very, very. We looked forward to that. As for entertainment, there wasn't much entertainment. Talk. As far as sex goes, you were discouraged for that because they would show you movies and once you saw those movies, you didn't want sex. I'll tell you that.
Scary stuff?
Pretty scary stuff.
Very graphic?
Oh, yes, very graphic, very graphic. So we had magazines and books and talked. That's about all we did.
Played cards?
I don't play cards. I didn't play cards. I didn't gamble at all. I don't gamble. I still don't gamble. They tried to get me to play 21, but I told them, I said, "You know, I don't play what I can't understand, and I can't count that fast, so I won't play."
Was there a softball game or anything?
Yes, we played games. I guess so. I don't know. Like I say, it's going way, way back.
Were there religious services?
Oh, yes, we had Baptist services every Sunday. Oh, yes, we did, we went to church. We did that. That was, the only black officer we saw was the chaplain. He was a captain. All the other officers were white southerners. And you learn how to cope with that eventually.
Not your favorite part of it?
No, not the favorite part of it.
What would you say was the most stressful or dangerous thing about your whole experience?
Not getting shot.
Coming on the beach there?
Oh, yes, oh, yes that was dangerous because you didn't know what to expect. They told you a lot of things, you know; Watch where you step, move fast, keep your head down, stuff like that. It's funny watching WW2 movies how unrealistic it is in the real thing, yes. You know, much different than that in real life.
One thing you told me you did on Okinawa Island, I guess to help pass the time, was to make up a scrap book.
Yes, I did that, I did that, yes.
It is very interesting. The pages are kind of yellowed now but
It took me a long time to make that up. Oh, yes, I did that.
You have lots of wonderful pictures of the island as it looked immediately after the combat. Some were of local people and we'll make some copies of some of those photos and include them with this.
Okay, all right.
You didn't actually take these pictures?
No, I didn't. As I said, the camera that I asked for came too late for me to take pictures.
Your buddies did a good job.
They did.
One of the pictures that I noticed in there was of a cemetery with all the crosses. Did you actually visit that cemetery?
Oh, yes, I did. I did. There were a lot of Marines that were killed. See, they had fought in Okinawa a month before we got there. When we got there it was just about over. It was, it was rough for those Marines. One of our generals was killed there, General Simon Bolivar Butler. I think his thing, his grave site is in here. One of these pictures in here shows it. I don't know. You can look through and see it.
You made very careful notes under each picture to identify them.
That's right. I did.
Have you been back there since then?
No, I'd like to go back, but I haven't been back there since. I guess I wouldn't recognize the place now.
You say that you didn't sign on for another tour. What did you do when the war ended? You got back home again.
I got back home again.
What was it like, your homecoming?
Quiet. Quiet.
Just family mostly?
My sister, my brother. My brother was in the service also. Only he was in the Germany. I gave my sister my Eisenhower jacket which she promptly lost. But anyway, I got back and they had what they called a "52-20 Club". That means that for 52 weeks if you don't find a job, you get $20 a week, which I promptly did. For a year I didn't do anything but get my $20 a week. Then I got a job with, what's that store? I forget. It was; I can't think of the name of that store. It was
And that was in New York?
Um, in New York. I think in 1948 I wanted to reenlist but then I said, "Nah, forget it." I changed my mind. Looking back on it now, I should have stayed in the service, but at that time I didn't see it. Because I didn't have any desire to do anything else so. But that's all under the bridge now.
Looking back from this vantage point, what would you say was the overall effect of your military service on your life?
I wouldn't have missed it for the world. I really loved it. It gave me a lot in insight on life. I tried to interest my son to do it, but he said no.
What do you think made that happen? What about it made it so important, the service?
Because it opened my eyes to the world and to people and to things, you know.
Travel?
Oh, yes, travel. Oh, yeah, I loved it. That gave me the incentive to travel. I've traveled ever since, ever since then.
Have you?
Yes, I managed to hook up with a travel agency in New York and they sent me a lot of places.
Where have you been?
I've been to Morocco. I've been to most of the islands in the Caribbean. I've been to South America. I've been to Buenos Aires, Chile, Alaska, Hawaii.
Very good. Thinking back now, do you remember any particular officers or buddies that stood out in your mind as being special?
Have you kept in touch with any?
No, I haven't.
But you have been active in veteran's organizations?
Yes, I have.
Is that just since your retirement?
No, I've been active. Soon as I came out of the service I joined the VFW.
Do you still belong here?
Oh, yes, I belong here.
They have an active group here, don't they?
They do, they do. I don't remember any of my Army buddies. I wouldn't know their names. I know one. His name was Snipes. He lived in Connecticut. I mention his name but I never, you know... Once I got out of the service, I... I suppose most of them have passed on by now. That was a long time ago.
Did you talk about your military experience to your kids.
Oh, yes. Oh, yes.
Some people didn't you know.
I talked to them. They got tired of me talking about it. Especially my wife.
Where did you meet your wife?
I met her at a dance in Jamaica, Queens.
You say that you have children?
Yes, one son.
Grandchildren?
One.
Is there anything that you'd like to add that we haven't talked about so far?
No, we've probably got all the subjects covered.
I miss things...
I don't think there's anything more that I can add to that.
You retired here to Palm Coast?
Yes, yes.
How did you choose Palm Coast?
My wife worked for the city
So you think it's true that the south, this part of the south at least, has changed?
It has changed, yes, yes, it has changed. There's still a way to go, but it's changed a lot in the last 50 years, 60 years. Really it has.
Maybe that's particularly true of this community.
Oh, yes, especially this community. I agree. I agree one hundred percent. I never thought I'd leave New York, but I surprised me and my wife
Thank you very much for sharing your story.
You're more than welcome, more than welcome. There's so few of us
Right. Okay. Thank you very much.
You're very welcome.