Encoded for the Experiencing War web site for the Veterans History Project.
The recording of the interview with Mary Salmen was digitized.
This transcription was encoded with minimal changes to the original text in an effort to preserve original content and idiosyncrasies of the person interviewed. Period language and terminology are also retained. Encoding is literal with regard to the transcriptionist's capitalization, punctuation, and spelling. Spelling errors are indicated with [sic]; however, recurring errors in spelling within a single document have been marked the first time and not subsequently.
Today is December 4th, 2003, and this is the beginning of an interview with Mary M. Salmen. Her maiden name was Nadano(ph). And Mary is 70 years old having been born on [birth date redacted]. This interview is being conducted at her home which is at [address redacted]. That zip code is [address redacted]. My name is Judy Rozencutter(ph), and I will be the interviewer. My relationship to Mary--I've just recently become acquainted with her through the Tri-City Women's Veterans' Organization as she was presenting a story. Mary is a veteran, but before we get into that, Mary was--her place of birth is Honolulu, Hawaii, and Mary is Japanese-American, and so Mary would you tell us a few things about your early life that you remember in reference to the--your awareness prior to World War II and what was going on from your home in Hawaii that you became aware of.
Well, we weren't aware of the oncoming war, but I'm the youngest of seven children and my parents were from the old country, from Kumamoto, Japan. And so, we were raised in Japanese culture and as the children got older and went to school, we were a bi-lingual family. So, we spoke both Japanese and English.
And now, tell me, what was your tradition? You mentioned something about, when you were at the Tri-City Women's Veterans' meeting you talked about the old country, that your family tradition was regarding education.
Oh, yes, my parents, because my mother was very education-conscious, aware of good education for her children. And not knowing what American education offered to her children at that time, she and my father agreed to send the older children as they became of school age to the--back to Japan to be educated, and that's how the two oldest children were sent to Japan to start their education.
And now, what age did you family send the children to Japan then? What age were they?
Well, now, I'm not positive but my brother and sister were sent together. And so my brother entered elementary grades in Honolulu, until my sister was old enough, and then they were both sent back to the hometown of my parents. And my aunt and uncle helped care for them during the summer when school was out. But they were in a private school in Kumamoto, Japan.
So, they would have been maybe younger than eight?
Oh, I would say about third--first and third grade, so I would say eight and six.
And so, they were there throughout their elementary education then?
All through high school.
And then?
And then when my brother graduated from high school in Japan, and so did my sister, there were--my parents wanted them to return to Honolulu. But, that's when World War II was occurring out in the Orient, you know. I don't really know where it started from, but in the Philippines and in those Pacific islands and so, Japan did not release my brother to return to Honolulu with the family, and, because he was of draft age, and, so he was forced to remain in Japan, and was drafted. But, my sister was allowed to return to Honolulu and join us.
So, about what age were you at that time then? You were born in '33.
Well, I would guess that would have been probably around 1940, so, I would have been about seven--six or so.
Can you tell me the occurrences that happened-- you were in Honolulu, regarding Pearl Harbor?
Well, my parents were informed by her family, who cared for my brother and sister, that there were inklings of war. But, of course, they had no idea what countries were going to be involved, whether America or whether Japan, at that time, was involved with Germany and Italy. But they knew there were rumblings of war coming on. But, they never, you know, discussed it with the children, so we weren't informed about anything like that. So, we were never frightened about any war beginning or anything like that. So....
So, when did you become aware that things had changed?
December 7th, 1941. (Laughing)
Explain what your mother's reaction--what your mother and father's reaction were.
Well, I remember some planes flying over Pearl Harbor--of course, the island of Oahu where Honolulu is, is not very large, so Pearl Harbor was not too far from the city of Honolulu. And, I can remember some planes flying over our area, not too terribly close, but we could see smoke and such. And, so, of course, my parents having the radio on and knowing what had happened, realized, not necessarily that there--a war had started, but that there were some emergencies going on. And, so, of course, we got information on the radio. And, so, my mother had the foresight to send my dad to the local grocery store and get as much of the fruits and--because they're all imported to Hawaii. None of the fruits are raised in Hawaii, the tropical--well, like the oranges, the citrus fruits, and apples and such--that the grocer would allow each family to have. And, she saved water in large containers and tubs and such, because she was afraid the water system would be contaminated. And, at night, I remember, at least a week, I think, she made us sleep in our regular clothes. We didn't have much jeans and things of that sort. But, somewhat like sweat outfits and such. And our tennis shoes, I remember that, our tennis shoes and socks on, just in case we had to seek shelter, you know, if something had happened through the night. So, she was really aware of preparing the family for emergencies. So, you know, as I grew up and had a family, I've often wondered if I would have the foresight to do all that if something happened to my family.
I think you had a very wise mother.
Yeah, oh, yes, I--as I got older, I realized what a smart mother I had.
Well now, were you aware, as a child, were you aware of--that since your brother--your sister was able to come home from Japan, but since your brother was in Japan, were you aware of the fact that he was going to be a soldier?
Oh, yes!
Was that terrifying for you?
Yes, it was very terrifying because my second brother was old enough to be drafted in the American Army and I can remember many times when my mother would receive letters from her family and, you know, be concerned about brother fighting brother, eventually, you know, if the war went towards Japan, and it did, so it was a frightening thing for our family.
Oh, I'm sure it was a very difficult time.
But I was so young that--and my parents were very good about not frightening us about all these stories. They really protected the children, and so, we were never too terribly afraid. I guess we were aware of the concern that our parents had but we were never really afraid of what was going on. We were--I remember standing in line for certain foods that--like butter, and things of that--meat, but--oh, and gasoline, of course. My brother and dad did that. But other than that--and I hear of friends who said they stood in line for sugar, of course, with sugar plantations in the islands, we never worried about that. So, it was just part of growing up as far as we were concerned. We were really not too afraid about being invaded than what Pearl Harbor was.
Tell me how this resolved itself in reference to your brother being in the Japanese Army and your brother in the United States military?
Well, they both served their term. My brother in Japan was being shipped to, I think he said Java, which is now-yeah, it's another name now. But his ship was torpedoed...
(Inaudible) Anyway, his ship was torpedoed?
Uh-huh, and so he floated in the ocean--I should have gotten a map-but anyway, and he floated for, I think he said a couple of days or so, and--just hanging on to debris. And, he remembers several of his shipmates dying alongside him and how they talked to try to stay awake and aware of your surroundings so that they could survive the best they could. And it was quite a traumatic period. And he has some injuries on his arm and such that one--his left arm has an injury that is a lifetime injury. But, he survived that. He was taken to a hospital and was there for quite a period of time recuperating and then was sent back to Japan. So, and he has a-the government has a...
A disability?
Yeah, disability, a Veterans' compensation like Americans receive--American veterans.
Now, what about your American brother that was in the military?
Well, he just served his term.
He wasn't injured?
No, no.
Oh, your family was very fortunate.
Yes, yes.
Well, tell me, what-did your brother that was going to school in Japan, did he ever come home, to be with the family again?
Well, no, because after he left the service, the Army, then he lost his American citizenship, of course, because when you serve in a foreign country, why, you lose it. And, so, my parents had to hire a lawyer-a law firm to prove that he was drafted instead of joining at his own will. And, so, by that time, it had taken several years. And, he married my sister-in-law and they had a son by that time. And, so he chose to remain there and is there--has been ever since.
Well, just give me a short description the size of family that he had and what he did for a living. He is still living, isn't he?
Oh, yes. He's 86 years-old. He has two boys and a girl, several grandchildren.
And would you state, just for the recording's purpose, your brother's name?
Tosheo (ph) Nagano(ph), and he now lives in Fukuoka, Japan. And he worked with the Japanese government in the-he helped plan, like road--new highways and such.
Oh, here, that would probably be called the Department of Transportation, but I don't know what the Japanese would call it.
Yeah, that's--and he's done very well. And, so, he's--in his retirement, has lived well. He loves to travel, and so, we've met several times in Hawaii, all of getting together. And I have--he's been here in Trumbull. And, I've met him in Las Vegas. He loves Las Vegas. And, when he came here in '94, I think, he landed in Grand Island. And, we went to pick him up and as we were coming to Trumbull, he was quite quiet but just looking. And I said,"Well, are you tired, Tosheo(ph)?" He said, "Oh, I'm just looking." He said, "I knew the United States was large" because he's traveled a lot. He said, "I knew it was large but I didn't realize," of course, when he's in the rural areas, you know, it's such a wide-open area. And, he said, "I knew it was large, but I didn't realize the U.S. is this big." And then he said-he looked around at all the utility poles and the electrical lines along the highway, and he said, "You know, you Americans are awfully wasteful." He said, "All these wooden poles," at that time, he said, "In Japan, we use those steel poles and save the lumber."
No, concrete.
Oh, concrete, yeah.
Yeah, for the record, Dennis Salmen is here, during the interview, too. and it's fine, Dennis, go ahead and any time you want to interject, as long as Mary doesn't mind.
No, and so, they really enjoyed the-and we took him to see several farms. And, but my sister-in-law was most- impressed with the wild flowers that were blooming. This was in May of 1994, so the spring wild flowers along the highways were all in bloom and she was so impressed. She said, "You know, you don't need florists around here, with all this natural wild flowers blooming. So, we had to stop and pick a few of them. She really enjoyed that.
That sounds like it was a wonderful visit.
Oh, it was. It wasn't very long, but it was--I wish they could have stayed longer.
So, how many brothers and sisters did you have then?
There were-I had four brothers. One passed away when he was four years-old in an accident. So there were, growing up, there were-why don't you go get the picture downstairs?-there were three girls and three boys in our family. And, we were all a boy and a girl, a boy and a girl. So, Richard is the oldest and I'm the youngest.
That's very interesting that he's the oldest and you're the youngest. He's the engine and you're the caboose.
That's right.
Well, Mary, now your parents were-they lived to see your brother's success in Japan?
Oh, yes, my dad came from a family who owned a lumber mill, and he was the oldest and the custom is for the boys to take care of the business and take care of the parents, you know. The custom is to-and he did not the responsibility, so he and his friends went to Hawaii. That's how they started there. And, it-when the war was over, I guess, his parents wanted him to come back with the children and he was afraid that once he went back that he would be talked into staying. So, he sent my mother and children back, and that's the picture.
So, this picture you have here is of-explain the picture for the benefit of the recording.
I guess this didn't take place-this was before the war.
Okay, this photo was taken before the war?
Uh-huh, when my mother and the children went back to Japan to visit his family-his parents.
Well, now who are these people, left to right?
This is my oldest brother, Tosheo(ph), and this is my sister, Kay. And she's--these are the two that went back to Japan.
These are the two that went to Japan.
Uh-uh, to be educated. And then, this is my brother who passed away. And this is my brother, Ken, the second son, and this is the second daughter.
And you're not in this?
No, I have a brother and a sister-I mean a brother, and I'm not in the family picture.
So, this was taken prior to 1933, then?
Yes.
Okay, I'll ask you after the interview about this picture. Now, what did--you became a military person yourself. Let's talk about that a little bit. You enlisted and what prompted you to enlist?
Well, I was at the University of Hawaii, and I always thought I wanted to become a nurse. And, in 1951, when I graduated from high school, the University of Hawaii, the following fall, was planning to start a nursing college. And, so rather than enrolling in a hospital nursing program, I applied at the University of Hawaii and got in to study there, but once I went into practical work, I could not handle the-
The clinical work?
Clinical work. And, the book work was fun, but I couldn't handle the actual work of nursing. So, I was just lost because I had fully decided that was what I wanted to do and I was at a complete loss. And some of my classmates who had just graduated from business school decided they were going into the service and see the world. Because being born and raised on a little island in the Pacific, it sounded so adventuresome to see the world, the United States and all, and, of course we thought how fun it would be to fly to the continental United States. And, so I suggested this to my mother, and of course, I was the youngest child and she just couldn't let me do that. So, I said, "Well, I would really like to go with my friends." And she said, "Well, would you think about it for a month?" And I said, "But, my friends are going to leave." And she said, "Well, just give yourself time to think and don't impossibly decide to do something and go so far from home because once you commit yourself to the service, you'll probably have to stay. And so I said, "Okay, I'll do what you ask." So, they went on. And I thought about it a month and I finally told my mother I still would like to do it. So, I went all by myself to San Antonio, Texas.
So, did you go to a recruiter there in Honolulu to sign up?
Yes, uh-huh, yes, it was at Hickam Air Force Base in Honolulu.
Okay, and they sent you to?
They flew me into Los Angeles, California, and from Los Angeles, I don't remember the military field that I landed in. But, I was placed--I was escorted to the train depot in Los Angeles and from there I took a train to San Antonio, Texas, and I was met by recruiters.
And what year was that, Mary?
April of 1953.
1953. I followed you three years later.
Well, I was just about done in three years.
So, you went to-you had your basic training at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas. Can you tell us a little about--what were your impressions when you first arrived for that experience?
Well, being April of 1953, it was terribly hot and humid, and I wondered, weather-wise, what made me do this at that time of year. But, I've met some great people from all over the country. And, of course, I enjoy meeting people and so, I really enjoyed visiting with people from different parts of the country and struck up some friendships that went on for many years. I'm sorry to say as we got involved with family and such that lost track of...
Well, that's not unusual, though.
Yes, but I often think about how much fun it would be to sit down and visit again.
Well, why did you pick the Air Force?
I guess I was just led instead of being a leader. The other girls were-had already planned to join the Air Force and I thought, well, that sounds good enough for me at that time. And it was the best decision that-as it turned out, because, I think, because of the science courses I had in nursing, I did well enough in my tests to determine what tech school to go to.
And what did--where did they send you?
They sent me to weather school--weather observers' school in Chanute Air Force Base, Rantoul, Ill. And there again met some great friends and still have friends that I write to that were weather observers with me in several locations.
Well, that's a very unique military specialty. Can you describe what some of your duties were like?
Well, we observed the weather, meaning we went out and looked at the clouds and the weather condition every hour and if there were severe weather, we went out every 15 minutes and recorded it and then set it on teletype on different--we had different circuits. And I was sent to Barksdale Air Force Base, which is a strategic air command and so we had a lot of bombers and such coming in. So, it-you know, they were very strict about having recordings of weather conditions. So, we just recorded weather--the current weather conditions and we did a lot of plotting of maps. Well, that was about it.
But, a very technical...
Yeah, it was because of the bombers coming in and such.
I'm going to jump back a little bit to your basic training. Do you happen to remember anything about your instructor in basic training?
Yes, they were Airmen 1st Class, Airmen 2nd class. They weren't very highly ranked, but they certainly taught us discipline and to be on time wherever.
What were some of the basic things that you had to do in basic training, like, that you just had to do-that you had no choice to say I don't want to do that?
Well, scrubbing, keeping your quarters clean, and-- that was a priority. Because, as I learned later about "white glove" inspections, they literally had white gloves on and they would place their fingers over window sills or bathroom sinks and places like that.
Very devious.
Yes, but-and then we were required to march, and I guess arriving in San Antonio in April, we had, like, Memorial Day marches and July 4th marches, so, I guess having arrived at that time of year, I probably participate--we had to participate more in community celebration than maybe some other groups.
Did you have to handle a weapon?
No, we were--I think in the Air Force, we were never even given a weapon to learn how to use. We were more, well, maybe, technical employees, type of people.
Well, did you have to go to--through the gas chamber? Did they make you do that?
You know, I don't even remember that. Oh, now I'm recalling. We did do that in elementary school.
Oh, you did? Back in Hawaii?
Yes, back in Hawaii. We were all assigned gas masks, and I remember in--they would fill a classroom with gas and we were taught to put the gas masks on and we lined up one student behind the other and we would march through this room from one-our classrooms had a front door and a back door. So, we would walk through one door round the sides of the walls of the room and exit through the other door. And, you'd know if your gas mask was leaking, because, the gas,--yes, it would really hurt your eyes. But, we didn't have anything like that in the service.
But your military...that's interesting because I said, you know, we--I followed you three years later and I was wondering if they were...
Did you? Were you assigned...?
Well, this isn't my interview, but I was just trying to make personal comparisons, personally from my basic training experience and yours. And, three years later they had us firing the M-1 and going through the gas chamber.
Oh, I don't recall any of that.
And they may not have been doing that because they--you know, the basic training for women was not as rigorous as for the men. But, now today...
We did a lot of marching. I remember doing some of the climbing rope walls and such but that was just more physical than any...
Did you have trouble with that?
Uh-uh.
You were in good shape.
Well, I was little bit.
Just for the record state how tall you are.
I'm 5'4".
And how much did you weigh at that time?
About 100 to 110 pounds.
Yeah, you were tiny.
And, I played a lot of tennis.
We were talking about that you were a very small person.
Yeah, and I played a lot of tennis, so I was in pretty good shape.
So, you were in good shape. Now, you were talking about Barksdale Air Force Base and now, that was in Louisiana.
Shreveport, well, Bossier City, Louisiana, just out of Shreveport.
So did you finish up your career there in Louisiana?
Yes, yes, I...
Since you were so far away from home, Mary, how did you stay in touch with your family at that time? Letters or telephone?
Letters, mostly, and of course, being in the Air Force, I took a lot of hops which is going from air force base to air force base. And, having worked off the flight lines, I had a lot of connections with pilots, and so, if I didn't go with them, they would give me information where I could get hops. And so, it was at marine bases, I flew out of El Toro Marine Base out of California, I'm trying to-oh, Travis Air Force Base in--near San Francisco.
Did you happen to take any hops to Offutt here in Nebraska?
No, I didn't take any, but I have flown out of California on sea planes. I was very adventuresome. I would try all these different--I even flew in on a T-33 with a test pilot once. I tried...
Well, that just sounds really exciting for a...
I-It was one of the best things I ever did once I was lost on what to major in in college because I really enjoyed the experience.
It sounds like...
So, I flew home quite often.
On military planes?
Oh, yes, I never went on commercial. Oh, I couldn't afford to. But then, as long as these were available to me and I had the time, we had 30 days a year. So, I had the time to travel. So...
So, what did your parents think of that, your being able to come home on a military plane?
Oh, they-after, of course, I got into my career field, then my mother realized how much I was enjoying it and so, she went along with that. But, of course, she constantly preached about morals, because, you know, women were so outnumbered on bases and so, she constantly preached about being a good girl.
Well, how did your dad feel about his daughter being in the military?
Well, my dad was more liberal. And so, he said, "
your age, your going to do what you want to do anyway." So he just-and he was not one to constantly remind, where my mother did. But he said, "You know what you should do and should not do." And, that was it.
He left it up to you.
Yeah.
Well, I think that's very-for parents today who come from a different country. And, they sound quite Americanized to me.
Well, my dad learned English, I wouldn't say well, but enough to get along. But my mother just barely learned even--not even close to the basics. So, I feel like they lost out, especially my mother, because she was an intelligent lady. But she stayed in her own community and practiced her own culture and I think she would have enjoyed learning the American traditions. But she was so close to her family that she just stayed within that.
Um-hmm. Well, but she certainly had a daughter who was willing to get out and explore the world.
Well, to their chagrin, I think. Now that, you know--I think that if my daughter was doing that, I'd be really worried.
Now, I'm getting back to asking just some questions about your job as a weather observer. Did you have any trouble or feelings of stress? Were you under pressure to get assignments done or do you-or was it just a smooth...?
Well, it wasn't smooth. It was a stressful job because when the weather was bad you really had to transmit your current weather conditions because it had to be on the circuit so other planes coming in or going out, of course, not necessarily worried about the ones going out, but the ones coming in had to be notified. So, yeah, it was a stressful job and of course, what was transmitted was your responsibility. You had to answer to it, if it wasn't correct. And so-and being in Louisiana, we had a lot of tornadoes and such, severe weather to contend with during the summer months. So, there were some co-workers who had to be transferred out because they couldn't handle the stress. But, it was--I enjoyed the challenge. It was...
It sounds like it was a (inaudible) responsibility.
Uh-huh. It was, and you know, there were times when the control tower would be concerned about what was being transmitted. And, so, you know, you had to answer to what was transmitted on circuit if there were any questions on it, because control tower was able to see different layers of clouds and movements. So, sometimes there were controversies on what was being transmitted, so we had to be really careful about what was being sent.
Now that we've talked about the serious part of the job, do you recall any specific humorous events or any particular pranks that you liked to play on each other?
Oh, I'm sure-now the pranks weren't really with the job, but we were-you know, we never had to go through inspections or anything, we were like career people without any barracks responsibility as to being there for inspections or being there for parades or--because we were shift workers. And so, while inspections were going on with our neighbor airmen, we could close our door and just sleep or pretend to sleep and avoid the inspections. And so, sometimes, we weren't like for having that privilege.
There were advantages to being in the position that you were in.
Yes, uh-huh, but-and, we were able to go to the KP. I mean, we didn't have any of those duties. We could eat any time we wanted to and what we wanted to because the flight line cafeterias were opened 24 hours, and so, we had privileges that-it was really privileges that others didn't.
Was there, since you had left home and you were so far away from home, was there anything specific that you took with you from home and carried with you throughout your military career?
Oh, family pictures.
Okay, anything else?
Well, no, not really. I was just amazed at the--my co-workers or people at the post office not being aware of how Americanized the islands were and I remember, my parents always sent me the local paper, and one of the first things-one of the first issues that arrived at--in San Antonio, Texas, one of the clerks said, "Oh, it's printed in American." And, I was so shocked at the comment because, of course, at that time, we weren't a state, we were just a territory. But we learned about American history which involved the territory and all of that, but apparently they didn't or had missed it. [Audio stops for approximately 15 seconds]
I became real impatient with people, I guess.
You can speak a little louder.
You know the...I just...
The lack of knowledge that people have.
Yes, because-and I decided that just those few years, that our Hawaiian education on American history and such must have been quite thorough. Of course, we had a lot of exchange teachers. My Latin teacher in junior and senior year in high school was from Newark, New Jersey and she had quite a New England brogue. And, you know, children can be cruel. We used to make fun of her brogue. But...
Children are children all across the world.
No matter whether they're in the islands or in coal countries. But, we used to make fun of her.
You know, it's understandable, that probably back in the 50's, that would have been, what year? In 1951?
One.
In 1951, people weren't all that tuned in. They didn't have the media attention on things like we do now.
Well, we had pen pals when we were in elementary school in the 40's. And, there again, in the elementary schools, we were appalled at the English construction of sentences--how terrible they were. And their--how they spelled words as to there and their, you know, like T-H-E-R-E as to T-H-E-I-R. And, just simple things that, I guess it was stressed upon us, the differences. That--so, you know, I guess I just thought how lucky we were that we had such good teachers.
Such a good education.
Mmm-hmmm.
You were getting a good education.
Oh, and phonics, we were really stressed on phonics. And so-and, maybe because we were so multi-lingual that different words and spellings and such were really emphasized.
Well, and that does make sense. And, I believe, that in that era, as you've just demonstrated, that different parts of the country and, of course, we--I doubt--we're in the same generation, and I don't think I ever gave any thought of what the education would be like on--opposite of my education going on while I was here growing up in Nebraska, how the people in Honolulu, Hawaii were being educated. Children, I guess, are children. They only think in their own scope, in their own area. But, it sounds like you had a wonderful education there in Hawaii.
Mmm-hmm. In fact we had one serviceman, who was a navy man who taught in our middle school. You know, when I think back, I don't know how he was able to do that. He just taught a few classes, but he must have gotten off duty so many hours a day. And, oh, he came in uniform, of course, you know little kids, we were so impressed with the uniform and, of course, Caucasians. We're all a community of Japanese, Chinese, Philippinos, Spanish-not--the Spanish as from Spain type of Spanish, Portuguese. And, we didn't have many Mexican Spanish. But--and of course, in our generation, we were all pure bred. We didn't have much mix of culture yet. You know, the cultures were all in different communities.
Speaking of the mix of culture, where, along the way in your experience in the Air Force, did you meet your husband?
Oh, my husband being--Dennis, being in the Air Force Weather Service also, he was..
Oh, he was weather service?
Yes, he worked in Xweetok, in Johnson Island in the Pacific with the Atomic Energy Project. And, when he was transferred out, he was sent to Barksdale with a group of other transfers. And, so, he was with the Raywen(ph) Sound Project, which is those weather balloons. And we were still doing that at that time out on the flight lines. So, at one point, I was an Airman 1st, so I was his boss.
(Laughing) Poetic justice.
It wasn't very long, but there were times when I would remind him, and we'd chuckle about that. But, yeah, he worked at the weather service and that's how we got acquainted.
So, when were you married?
We were married in October of 1955, and I served til my enlistment was over in April of 1956. So, I served my full-I was determined to serve my full term.
Tour of duty.
Yes, and I was expecting and our daughter was born in September of '56. So, I could hardly-the last few weeks, I could hardly get into my uniform, but I went to work in my uniform.
Well, now, that brings up a good question. So, it wasn't an automatic dismissal or discharge if you were pregnant?
You could be pregnant, but at that time, you couldn't have a child. You had to leave the service if you had a child. But, shortly after that, you could serve-and you know, things change quickly in those few year.
Oh, they did--they were changing quickly then.
Yeah, within, I think, a year or two, you could still have a child.
See, a misconception that I think a lot of us-I've always had even though I was in the military myself, I always thought that if you--as soon as your command found out you were pregnant then they were initiated, discharged. But, that's not true.
No.
It must be on an individual basis perhaps.
Yeah, I was going to say, it could have been through the career that you were in. Because we were never overly-you know, the number of personnel on our staff was--we didn't have that many to spare.
Well, and you were in a priority military skill, so that might have made a difference, too.
Well, I don't know how skilled I was, but we didn't have that many. Because whenever our enlistment was up, our commander had to--yeah...
They wanted you to sign back up again, didn't they?
Yes, now my husband extended for three months. From--he was due out in September and he extended to December because they couldn't have replacements. And it was an advantage for us, too, even for that short a time. So...
So, after your enlistment was over, were you still in Louisiana when you completed your enlistment?
Just 'til December.
Okay, then where did you go?
Well, then my husband got out of the service. So, he got a job with NASA, and so, we came here to Trumbull where his family was, with the intent of visiting here, then going on to Florida for our civil service job. And there was an opening at the grain elevator here in Trumbull. So--and my father-in-law, Dennis' father, was the manager here. So he says, "You wouldn't want to..." of course, we had our granddaughter here, and she's the first grandchild. So, he said, "Well, you wouldn't want to just turn down that job--civil service job--and stay here?" And, we talked about it and decided, well since we'll always be away from my family, maybe that's something that we should consider. And so we did, and decided to stay here ever since. But, I tried to take the GI Bill and go into weather service, with civil service, but there was nothing in the area close enough, which I really regretted.
Yeah, that--yeah.
Because my work--I loved my work. It was one of the most-the best decisions I made as far as leaving college and getting into something, that I could ever have done, I think, because I really enjoyed the work.
So, you weren't able to get back into that type of...?
Nuh-uh.
Did you go into a different field then?
No, well, I later got a job here in town as the village clerk and was there for 24 years.
Well, that in and of itself is a career, Mary.
Yeah, but it was a far cry from what I really wanted to do.
Well, it's interesting, though, you followed the tradition within the American society for that time that the husband's occupation came first and then whatever you could locate became what you would be doing.
Yeah.
So, how many children do you have?
We have four children, three girls and a boy.
Okay, and what's the line-up? Who was born...?
Denise was born in Shreveport.
Okay, Denise is the oldest, then?
Yes, and she--laughingly, we say she was our cheapest. She cost 7 dollars at the Barksdale Air Force Base maternity ward.
Another benefit of military life.
Yeah, I don't know, it was pretty rough treatment. You know, and, she was born in September-all the heat and humidity-it was miserable. But you don't really remember those things. It's the fun things you remember of camaraderie with other couples and other young babies. We still--as a matter of fact, we're going to visit these former Air Force friends from Barksdale years in the next few months.
Oh, how wonderful! That's with your RV travels?
Well, they're not RV travelers. But, we've been in touch with them all these years and their children have, you know..
Isn't that a wonderful feeling?
It is, it is.
To have friends from that far back, especially when they knew you when you were young and you could watch each other.
And, you know, we used to-because of those hot summer months when I was pregnant, we used to go to the base theater--movie theater, for a quarter, just to cool off and be comfortable.
That's very interesting. So, you weren't able to do the GI Bill, but, gee, serving as the city clerk for all those year, that's quite a-well, you certainly got familiar with your community, didn't you?
Oh, yes.
So I'm sure you were involved in community functions.
And, you know, working with the city government and taxes and such, you realize how much paperwork is involved. Even a small village like this, as to a larger town, the paperwork is the same.
For the benefit of the recording, because I'm sure not too many people know of Trumbull, Nebraska, what is the population of Trumbull?
Two hundred and twenty five. And, my family from Honolulu say, "My goodness, that's just our city block." But it was quite an experience for my family to get acquainted in Trumbull, Nebraska.
I bet it was. I bet it was. And I'm sure everybody was extremely interested in them because of their ethnicity and knowing you.
And, I had a few unpleasant experiences with my children being of--part Japanese. But, you know, I said, "Well, you can't dwell on that. You have to overcome it and prove to them that we are as good as they are" you know, or do things-I'm thinking back to how my mother would have handled it.
So, do you feel like your children did have a problem because they were--were they the only Oriental children in the area?
Uh-huh, but, not--I'm not so sure that they were even aware of it.
Yeah, they probably weren't. Well, anyway, you had Denise, and then you had two other daughters and a son. What are their names?
Terri is our second daughter and then came Mark. And then our youngest is Stacy. And the three girls are here in Nebraska and Mark is in Kansas City.
Did they become world-class adventurers like their mother?
Well, they all enjoy traveling. Our youngest, I guess, I would say that she, after college, became a nanny. And, she nannied in Stanford, Connecticut and New York and then she would have loved to continue, but her--their dad said, "No more." You know they're paid cash and they have no benefits and no taxes are paid by the employers. So, the fun was over--time to get a real job and get a few benefits for your own...
Did any of them go into the military?
No.
None of them went to the military? Okay. Mary, did you join any veterans' organizations?
Well, just recently, really, I don't think I've been in it for much more than five years or so.
first, wasn't even aware of it. Got some veterans, you know, like, inquiring about GI Bill and such, maybe it wasn't organized at that time but never got any information on organizations like that. Just happened to catch an ad about a group of women who had met and, you know, read about what they had done. And so I thought, "Oh, that sounds interesting." And, I called and that's how I started getting involved.
That's how you got involved. Well, much to so many of us--our benefit.
Oh, well, thank you but I certainly-I feel, you know, I've benefited so much from... But, the Air Force women don't have much activity.
They don't have, like, reunions or...?
No, and in that sense, I'm disappointed. I've often thought there must be a group somewhere, or
You would think so. The Navy, the WAVES, from World War II, have a wonderful organization.
Yes, and in fact, the weather service doesn't--is not a very active retired group. And, I keep saying I should inquire, but we're so busy with out trailer travel that...
Well, bless your... Now, are you grandparents?
Oh, yes, we have eleven grandchildren.
Oh, you are very blessed. Now, so you were the city clerk for, did you say 20 years?
Twenty-four.
Twenty four years, that is a career, like I said, in itself.
Well, it was just part-time, because I was able to go to my husband's meetings and such. And that's why I wanted to remain as part-time, you know.
But that worked out well raising a family-to raise four children and to still work. Now, Mary, I mentioned this--that I was going to ask this question earlier. Did your military experience influence your thinking about war or the military in general?
Well, I think it's a great benefit for young adults, both boys and girls, to be in the military. It teaches you so much discipline and respect of the serving of others. But, I don't know, there are times when it's sad how it turns out, you know, in the things that they become involved in. I think that most people benefit greatly in.
Personal growth?
Yes, and values, personal values, and respect of other people's abilities and, you know. If you're fortunate, like Americans, we don't realize how fortunate we are to be Americans, instead of-so many expect more of--and not be responsible for their own actions. I think, you know, we should--and give a little of ourselves because we are SO fortunate in where we're from.
I would say, "Amen!" to that. That's a-very insightful, Mary. I appreciate it. Now, you've mentioned that you've not really had any reunions, but--and you also mentioned the women's veterans' group. Is there any way that you feel, or that you can relate to how your service and experience has effected, at your after-service experience, affected your life personally. Do you have any comments about that?
Well, not so much how it affected my life because not having to continue with the career I had in the Air Force, it's an end to one part of my life and starting another. If we had--my husband had stayed in the service, you know, I probably--I've often wished that I had continued on with the reserves.
Mmm-hmm. That would have been a way to keep your skills as the weather observer.
But, being in such a small town area, I didn't even look into it, and I probably should have. But having had two children so close, I didn't feel like I had the time to be fair to them to be gone. I guess I am from the old school where I felt I should be with them. So, I never pursued it. And, as they got older, I wish I did. That's the part of the...
Well, it's clear that you really, really loved your military experience.
I did. It was a wonderful career to have been placed into. And, you know, I had no idea what was available. It was strictly through my test results and whoever placed me where they thought I could do the best, I guess, and so everything worked in favor of-for me. And, I was very fortunate in that because I met some of the most wonderful people, and--people that I never continued any correspondence with that, that I think, "Oh, they were such neat kids, you know. I wonder what happened to them.
Yeah, sometimes one does-sometimes when one stops to think about it, you do think of all the wonderful people that you've come into contact with.
Uh-huh, yeah.
But, you have your friends from Louisiana that you were in the service together with, so that's a continuation.
Uh-huh. And, I went to weather school with a friend from Cartersville, Georgia. And, she was such a neat girl. And we--our grades were the same so we had the choice of picking where we'd like. So, we both decided to go to Barksdale, so we worked together for many years.
Oh, that's a wonderful memory.
Yeah, and I have a friend that's in Vancouver, Washington, now, that was from my Air Force days that we still correspond a lot.
So, good friends. Good friends.
Yeah, I've been very fortunate.
Now, Mary, this is your chance to add something that, you know-is there anything that you would like to add that we haven't covered in the interview?
Pertaining to the service?
Anything. Even a personal opinion of what's going on now with our military. Anything you'd care to say.
Oh, well I've never been in--continued to learn about what the weather service has done. So, I guess I don't have--I can't have opinions on that. I wish I had areas where I could visit. We have gone down to Barksdale, but they have improved. You know, we did so many things manually, and now it's so automatic and electronically so sophisticated. I just walk through and say "Oh, my", you know, there's no way I could step in anymore. And that was years ago. But, you know, as maps come off the circuits and such, it was always so fascinating to me. To have been a part of it, I think I just feel very fortunate.
Oh, Mary, I feel very fortunate that you've taken the time today to talk to us. You've opened a window onto a part of our population, I should say that ordinarily, especially as people here in the mid-West, very rarely have an opportunity to look through that window, and by talking about your family--a wonderful, wonderful family. I just feel so privileged that you've allowed me to come today and talk to you and have you talk so freely to me. And I do appreciate the service that you've given to our country and the good citizenship that you've practiced throughout the years. And, thank you so much!
Well, I feel I'm the lucky one to have-you know, and my life has been just lucky turns and twists. I was not one who planned it this way, I mean to have said, oh this is available and this is what I'd like to do. I was guided by a being that I was very fortunate to be in its path. You know, some people can plan their life so well, and I just kind of wandered, it seemed like.
But look how well it turned out.
Yeah, that's why I feel like I'm so lucky.
Oh, thank you so much, Mary, I really appreciate it. END OF RECORDING