Encoded for the Experiencing War web site for the Veterans History Project.
The recording of the interview with Gordon Asbury was digitized.
This transcription was encoded with minimal changes to the original text in an effort to preserve original content and idiosyncrasies of the person interviewed. Period language and terminology are also retained. Encoding is literal with regard to the transcriptionist's capitalization, punctuation, and spelling. Spelling errors are indicated with [sic]; however, recurring errors in spelling within a single document have been marked the first time and not subsequently.
Asbury, A-s-b-u-r-y.
Gordon, tell me how you got involved with the military?
Well, mainly, it was the draft as everybody at the start of the War was of the Selective Service era, and I chose to go in. I had been working up at Puget Sound Navy yard at the time, and then got drafted and chose the Army.
Why were you doing -- why did you go to work at Puget Sound Navy yard, and what were you doing there?
I was the (?fork again?), the electrical department aboard ship, and at that time, why, they were bringing some of the ships back from Pearl Harbor, and I worked on the USS Tennessee when they had it in dry dock, and they gutted it and put in all new cable and wiring and fixed it up to go out again. And I did have a chance -- I was working on a destroyer escort, a World War I two stacker, and I did have a chance -- the commander came around and said "well, how about choosing the Navy, and I will get you assigned aboard this ship?" But there was one that came in that had a hole in the side of it, so I chose to go to the Army rather than the Navy.
Well, I was just about to ask you, why would you choose the Army over the other services?
And unfortunately, I didn't know it until I read Kennedy's book on PT 109, that the destroyer was destroyed in the battle of Gaudalcanal USS Ward. It was interesting to find out where that ship actually ended up and that I wasn't aboard it. So the choice to join the Army then was based entirely on your work in the Naval yard that seen the ships and --
Basically, yes. In other words, I felt that I'd be much better on land than I would out there on the water, and as I recall, I don't think I swam then either. So I may have learned afterwards, too. But that and the fact I had a brother that was in the Army finance department, and he was in the European theater at the same time. I don't think that (interest) I just chose the Army, and I was interested in engineering survey and became -- ended up in the artillery going to Fort Sill basic and then joining a hardware unit out at (?Sandless Principal?) California.
Okay. Why don't you tell us about that initial training? Was it pretty good? Did it kind of open your eyes to a different world? Did you meet a bunch of new people? What was that like?
Well, I was -- it was a real great thing as far as looking back on my life. I gained maturity, the fact that there was a lot of new people as far as a (?trained Italian?) and I basically got pretty well what I wanted. I was initially as far as a cannoneer and a 105 Howitzer battery. But I think at that age, I mean, all of us kind of thought we were invisible, and we really was behind the War effort and just doing the job. But it was very interesting to have all of this.
Well, tell us a little bit about being a cannoneer on a 105 --
Well, I was in a Howitzer battery on a 105 Howitzer, and it was approximately a four-inch diameter, and you went through all the positions. Actually, there was the gunner, gunner and the cannoneers. I think there was 10 of them total on a Howitzer squad, and you were actually trained to do all the positions, so anytime you had a fire mission, why, you could actually do them. The 105 Howitzer was a semifixed powered bags. In other words, you could get them from one to seven, depending what distance you actually wanted to fire and elevation, and of course, you did pie angle fire, and so that the difference as far as between the gun Howitzer, actually you could launch the projectile on the back side of a hill rather than just be shooting right straight on, but I found it very interesting. As far as in the battery and in the gun section, I did go into the radio section and then became observation party with the infantry.
Before we continue on, a lot of people don't understand how you aim a Howitzer because, like you said, you are not shooting at a target; you are over something at a target.
All right.
Can you explain that?
Okay. It is a matter that on the information, forward observers or those people that are out on the ground where that projectile is landing, information as to where they wanted either by coordinates as far as maps are concerned, sometimes actual firing out in the distance and where we know it is somewhat safe and then judging around to come back to a target area, and with that information, we have a fire direction center. At that time compared with right now, why, it was rather crude from the point you had people that were working on maps, charts and then, in turn, computing information that could be relayed to the gun, and the gun laid on azmas (ph) or compasses you might say. We referred to it as azmas (ph) because of getting it into an area, in other words, on seeing in mils rather than degrees, and supposedly one mil gives one yard and a thousand yards. So then, if there is firing at 5,000 yards, why, it is a matter of getting five yards difference for where a (?quarter round?) actually lands. And so this is (?computer down?) and they have the information in books and on charts that what chart you use, depending on the distance you are firing and the elevation and the like, and that's the way it is accomplished.
That's a good explanation. You are doing great. Sixty years ago, you are doing great. So if I was to say, what does it mean to lay the gun?
Well, initially, I mean, it is a matter -- apparently, you know a little I bit about -- but it is a matter, I mean, initially going into a position, and they do know the coordinates or the Howitzer battery, and at that time, why, it was four guns to the battery. Then, in turn, you actually have sights and your gun is laid, and then they have aiming posts at the panoramic sight on the gun that they are aiming towards that with the panoramic sight only, and then the relationship of the tube to the panoramic sight and change that in mils and get the lay of the Howitzer.
Perfect. Great. That's the best explanation anyone has ever given us of how to lay the guns in and stuff because a lot of people don't understand how those guns fire.
Well, yeah. This is one of those things that -- it is rather interesting, and why, I actually stayed with the artillery and went in the National Guard and had fun with it. I actually did it more for fun than for the money or the time, but it has paid off.
Okay. So after your training you said you went from joining the unit at (Sindloss) and (?Bisbow?). Talk to me about -- can you tell me, then, basically, as a replacement or as a new guy, and talk about how that worked out.
Well, at that time, the division apparently wasn't full strength, and they were actually preparing to go overseas. I don't know whether they had particularly their orders, but it was a matter of filling up the personnel in the unit, and I ended up with a Howitzer squad, and then we did training (?hunter league?) area in California and then, eventually, got to the port of embarcation, but it was -- joined the group. I mean, it was very good, and unfortunately, I mean the men that -- when we were going up to (?hunter league?) for one of our last times and the first wide fire over our infantry regiment, that was our combat team, and he had to go to the dentist. And I was fortunate to be assigned in his position so pulled the line actually to the elevation in the firing of the Howitzer, which was a little different feeling, but there is checks and balances continually in making sure that everything is done right, especially in the training situation. And it was good to join, and I joined a unit that had a lot of regular Army persons, had actually been in the Army probably for 12, 13 years. They had joined back in 1930, '32 at the time, and they were career men. And some of them probably had been up and down in rank more than some people had pay days. I mean, that was their comment. They had corporal and broke down to PFC or private and up to sergeant and back down, and that was the old Army. And they were a real, real fun group, my experience with them anyway. They treated us very, very well.
So the GIs feel you were ready to go to combat overseas?
I think it was a matter of depending where you're going, and it was, of course, we got more training, I mean, when we went overseas. Actually, the division had been donned to actually go over to Africa and -- but this was changed, and so we were being shipped to the Pacific. Well, that meant when we did go to Hawaii and did amphibious training landing, jungle training and the whole bit, and we were at Oahu, and we had a base camp, but we were -- I remember in one base camp up in the cane fields for the defense of the island at that time, but we were (placed) more than two weeks because it was amphibious training, amphibious training, jungle, and so it was all around the island, and of course, if you had been to Oahu, it is -- so we did have a lot of additional training there.
So what about Hawaii in terms of -- you must have had a little offduty time. What about offduty time there?
We didn't have very much of it. Hawaii was blackout, and blackout meant just exactly that, so there was not a lot of offduty time. I mean, we did other training, and that really kept us -- kept us busy, and I think the -- just prior to the going on down to -- I think I had one of the first passes. There were late passes. I will _____. It was a matter of going down into Honolulu if we were in that area. They had continually times when very far from the beach, and you generally take a truck to load up guys down to the beach and blow up the mattress covers in the air and do surfing and body surfing, and then they did have the trips, oh, to a sugar mill. Of course, at that time, it was still company -- sugar of the company and then Dole pineapple, and they had control of all of this, and you'd get field trips into those areas in _____ +. People had been raised on the plantations and had never been across the island 45 miles to see Honolulu. They were born and raised on the plantation. Everything was provided right there for them, the company store, the whole bit, and it was rather hard for us to believe that coming from the United States and coming to a small island and having people that had never been across the island, but that was basically our offduty time, was recreation. And of course, we had our own area, but there was a lot of training. In other words, you would stand by early in the mornings and the evenings as far as being actually in position. Sometime we would do some practice firing.
Okay. Let's talk about taking off and headed down towards New Guinea then. What was that like, and what did you go on? What was the voyage like?
It was -- it was just a regular troop transport from Hawaii down to New Guinea. We were not in very much of a convoy. I mean, at that time, I mean, they felt probably pretty secure on going down around New Zealand and the areas down in there, and we did go to Melanie Bay, New Guinea, which is on the southeastern tip of New Guinea. And of course there it was a matter of just being in a spot doing some additional training as far as the jungle, and also, it was a matter that there were still a few Japanese in that particular area. That was under the control of the Australians, and of course, the -- what? -- palm life. They had a lot of the coconut plantations, and of course, the natives worked in their bed. The Australians in that area really, really didn't care too much for the Americans coming in there from the standpoint they always -- I don't know, we spoil countries and spoil natives by giving them different things that the Australians had given control of. It was -- and that was at Melanie Bay, and then, I mean, there was more training, jungle training, getting used to really living in the jungle areas, and we did have perimeters set up, and basically it was a cutoff operation as far as any Japanese that were in the area but very few down in the Melanie Bay area. Then --
Well, give me a first impression of New Guinea.
Well, basically, I mean, the area went -- we went into -- of course, we were close to a beach area and a nice bay area, and it was basically unspoiled area, and if you had a chance, and of course, we did have a couple of duck transports that were -- could be water borne, and so we were able to get out and go out in the bay. It was a beautiful area. I mean, coconut groves, actually unspoiled area as far as going into it. And the natives and the Australians had their little villages organized, and the natives, I mean, were in their half dress costumes, generally just kind of a loin cloth type thing, and the women did wear a read or grass skirt type of thing all the time. But they were working people and harvested the coconuts for the -- I think it was Palm Oil Peat Company at that time, but it was -- it was going into a new area. It was -- it was real nice, but we had to set up our own area, and of course, one of the first things that any military unit does is clear an area and set up their tents and the only thing more than getting used to the mosquitoes as far as the area was concerned, but otherwise, I mean, I really -- I really enjoyed the service. I can't say anything against it at that particular bit.
Tell me what kind of precautions were they taking with you guys about malaria and the mosquitoes.
Well, actually, the malaria was a matter of taking Atebrin, I guess, probably prior to that they had -- what? quinine, and I guess a supply of quinine was pretty limited. So they developed Atebrin, and you take it each and everyday as far as prevention of a malaria bite. I mean, unfortunately, it did turn your skin yellow or jaundice but -- and initially, it was a matter that, as you would go through the chow line, why, you would get your one pill, and an officer would have to be right there and see that you take it, and afterwards, why, they did issue them, and you were on your own on that particular bit. And I don't think that we had any -- any real problem in our unit as far as malaria was concerned. But otherwise, the sanitation was the usual Army bit, and we had what I would consider very excellent cooks, and they could take some of the rations that we had. Of course, practically everything was canned, about the only objection that you'd have as far as the unit was concerned was generally some of the Australian boy beef or mutton that we got. But actually, our cooks just seemed to be able to dress up practically anything. And we did have a German mess sergeant, and he had come over as a young man from Germany and had been a main chef in a St. Louis hotel. So he really did a great job as far as managing the kitchen area.
So from Melanie Bay, where did you guys go?
We went up to -- on the Mainland, but it was near Watke (ph) Island, which had been secured by, I believe, an org -- National Guard unit. In fact, I think the 162nd was part of that. Actually, the 162nd and 167th Field Artillery, they were what we called bastard outfits because -- but it was a matter that they had the Port of First. Many of them had been sent down to Australia, really about the time the War started, and they had some of the first battles. And then the Port of First had been broken up. Some of them went to Europe; some of them went to the South Pacific, and these units were unassigned, but they were attached to other units. And they'd be sent any place, I mean, practically, but we did replace them in some of our first combat and Watke (ph) Island had been a coral atoll I guess probably you would call it. And the Air Force had moved in there and moved some of their fighter planes and the like up in there. And we were -- we went in and secured the area as far as defense. And that was -- that was some of our first combat at the -- I believe it was the Tore River was the name of it. And of course, we would see these planes come into Watke (ph) Island, and there was also a PT boat unit that was stationed there at Watke (ph), but it was a secured area, and then they did put in an airfield. And the engineers would come in and lock all of that metal together. First thing, you know, you would have mostly B24s coming in and based there, and then they would do their flights each day and come back in. And that was -- that was our first combat. I don't recall just how long, but it was quite a long period of time that we were in that area. And of course, some of the troops and infantry people got initiated real, real well on that because the Japanese had been able up in that area to dig in and do defenses that were a little bit more so than they had been down in the Melanie Bay area. And from there, we did move on up to Zanzibar, New Guinea, which is Dutch New Guinea, and we did pretty much the same thing there, but it was a matter of sending out patrols. And they could contact and really, again, you have to consider that New Guinea is approximately -- what? -- 1,300 miles long and -- what? -- four or 500 miles wide. And so it was a lot of area just cut them off, cutoff their supplies, and basically, that was our job.
At what point did you leave the cannon company and move to the radios?
Let's see, it was probably up in Sansport (ph) New Guinea that I went into the radio section and did the training in the radio bit and joined a group. And then, that was -- that was really not too long before we actually went up to Luzon on the landing of the --
Wait. Let's change before we talk about the invasion of Luzon. So tell me a little bit about the radio that you had and what your kind of duties were now that you are no longer on the gun, but you are out with the Forbes or (ph) --
Well, basically, I mean, it was a matter of communications, and I believe the radio was an SR 610, which actually came in two parts, a battery back and the radio transmitter and receiver. And it was a matter that, of course, each time you'd have to set to take out, and I think the total weight of the battery back and the radio was about 72 pounds. So they did normally separate them as far as backpacking them. They were a rather cumbersome item. Fortunately, in the areas of New Guinea and the Philippines, why, it was a matter that we really didn't need much as far as extra clothing or bedding or anything such as that. I mean, the climate was very comfortable, so you didn't have that in addition to the radio bit. So with the training, it was a matter of just basically learning the total terminology of transmitting a mission and information that was needed as far as getting the fire power to where it was needed. And we were very fortunate in being able to have practically all the time real good radio communications. And as I understand, many other individuals when I was in the National Guard, why, they really tried to stay away from radio transmissions in our training situation, but I was fortunate being able to get them to see a little bit differently, too, from the standpoint of experience. I mean -- and that's basically all it was, was you get the experience, and you can make it work.
Now, was this voice transmission or was --
Yes.
-- it Morse Code?
This was all voice transmission. I never did learn Morse Code. I did do the flags from Boy Scout, but I didn't have those either.
Well, tell me what a forward observer team is, what it is made up of, and what's the job?
Okay. Forward observer team is made up of one officer, generally a second lieutenant or first lieutenant, an instrument operator, which basically serves a -- although we used a different type of instrument than the normal ones, field glasses, of course, teleone operator or radio operator, and then, generally, what was considered another communication man, a wire man. We really did not use very much as far as wire unless we got in a real permanent situation. Then, when you are moving with the infantry, why, there is no permanent situations. But those observers -- generally, I mean, the radio operator or all of them are qualified as far as vehicle Jeep driver's, and that was our vehicle that we would use. The radio could be mounted on a Jeep, but here again, I mean, when you get to working with the infantry, why, in the forward lines, why, there is no place for a Jeep. And I did -- we did work, or I did work with an officer who was -- well, he had been a sergeant, and he had gotten a field grade appointment someplace. I am not just sure. But he was one that really believed that you don't do any good back very far. It is a matter of being right up with the infantry and being able to see what the initial contact is and then put the fire on them. But he was a fabulous guy, and I was real fortunate in working with him all the time. And I think he was regular Army, had probably joined in about 1935 or so but still had young ideas, and he -- I can remember one time we had -- and forward observers would go up with the infantry and be there probably for a week and then go back and be with the Howitzer battery for two or three days and then being forward for another week. And I also think of him being assigned to another unit at one time, and the captain had said, well, you take so and so, and he said "no, I am taking my own -- my own crew," even though we had just come back from assignment where we were going together again. And I thought that was -- that was pretty good. But no, it was -- it was an assignment that, again, I enjoyed -- I always wondered, I mean, what I would feel like when I first saw -- when I saw the first man hit by even my fire. But you have a job to do, and you let somebody else -- I mean, we had good medics, and they took care of those things.
Did the FO team get pretty close, the five of you?
Oh, yeah, yeah. We were -- we were very close. I mean, when we would go back to the unit, why, we would be assigned different positions of maybe in the Howitzer battery, maybe out on the perimeter as far as defense of the Howitzer area. But, no, overall, I mean, it was a matter of a team that really worked together. I mean, you had to. So you knew what was going on. I think each and every one of us got so that we could probably operate and probably operate without a lieutenant for that matter, but we never did have to in that situation.
Being able to doing --
That's right. That's right.
Well, let's talk about going from New Guinea up to Luzon and what that was like and your impressions of the Philippines and what you guys did there.
Well, going from New Guinea, it was a matter of -- of -- we were on LSM, which was landing ship mechanized, and it held one battery of artillery, and so we had basically armored trucks and like on the one ship. We were in a very, very large Clonboy going up there. I think probably part of them may have landed on another island rather than Luzon in the Philippines, and so we had several days -- I don't know -- I don't remember how long a period of time, but we did when we were in convoy, we did have an attack by Japanese zeros, and I don't know how they ever do it, but it seemed like on information that I have heard why, the -- where they have the Kamikaze attack, it always seemed to locate the flagship of the whole convoy, and we did have that happen, I mean, on our convoy Lincan Gulf on the Philippines. But it was yet on the landing as far as -- and the observation party was, again, with the infantry, and that was -- I don't know, I don't recall. There was, I think, three beaches, three or four beaches that we had, that landings were on at the same time, and we were more or less in a center position. And we did not hit very much resistance as far as the initial bit, mainly from the standpoint I think probably all the rockets and Navy ships that had done the firing on it had driven the Japanese back into the area, or they may not have been on that particular area. So we really did not make contact with them until probably the second or third day on the beach. So they was not -- not a hard landing as such, but as we got into the hill area off the beach, why, we had quite a bit more contact. They were -- they were pretty well dug in on that particular bit.
Well, let's -- you know, before we go any further, go to combat. We are young; we are young; we are really indestructible like you said.
That's exactly --
Nothing can happen to us.
-- the feeling that we had.
I mean, usually something happens pretty quickly, disabuses you of that notion.
That's right.
Find out pretty quick you are, in fact, in trouble. You could have -- could have come away from this hurt pretty bad or did.
Yeah.
Do you remember what did that for you? I can still remember my experience distinctly, but what happened to you to make you realize that this was serious what you were involved in?
Oh, I think I probably considered it a little bit serious all the time, but when you get actually into the spot where you are actually making contact with the enemy -- and like I say, I mean, what is your feeling going to be? I mean, are you going to get sick when you see that first man hit, or is there a possibility that you are going to get hit, and but you are there, again, as a team, and you really don't seem to have a great deal of fear. I guess we kind of had the attitude, well, if there was a bullet with our name on it, why, that was going to be our time in life. So I can't really say that we had -- I think probably I would have feared -- we didn't have a lot of high explosives coming in on us as far as our chore. I mean, there was only in our combat experience or mine, rather, there was probably only about two or three times when I had been in the vicinity of where high explosives came in. They scared the bejesus out of me mainly from the standpoint of concussion and the other bit. Well, you are firing at all the time and seeing what it can do and see the devastation that you could have with high explosive, why, you really respect that. I think I respected that a lot more than I did individual firing, being in a fire fight as such.
How, then, would you typify or how would -- what would you say about Japanese fire support against versus American fire support?
They were as breek (ph) as could be, I mean, at least, my experience with them. I think they were good fighters, and they -- in the places where they had their fortifications, I think they were -- and I think an awful lot of them had been schooled in the bit that it was a dishonor to be killed or captured, in other words, in some cases, I think it was a matter of they wanted suicide rather than to be shot. And I think probably many of them in some of their dug-in positions committed suicide rather than to be shot and the like. But we put what we could with the artillery and the fire power that we had, why, we could devastate most of those areas. Of course, with the infantry, I mean, they had -- they had their own fire as far as the Napalm bit of directing notoriety at the caves and the like, and of course, we also had air support. And probably, I mean -- probably that's one of the real fears that I had, was from the Air Force, unfortunately, from the standpoint we would mark with smoke, mark a target, and the Air Force, so many of them seemed to think, well, they are in the vicinity, they would come in, but they didn't ever remember that smoke drifted from the original target. And they would come in and bomb into the smoke rather than to the thing, and if the smoke drifted back over the friendly troops, you would have problems with friendly fire. And this was probably one of the problems with the communications with Air Force people or those that were on the plains that were plains communicating directly. They'd, say, "oh, yeah, we are in the vicinity," but they were quite a ways off. But -- and we did use them an awfully lot. I think probably one of the greatest planes there ever was was a P38 Lightning as far as real good support. And those guys, I don't know, those pilots were fabulous.
So your team actually called for air support in addition to --
Oh, yes, uh-huh. We were able to communicate with them, and we had some A20s I think they were, I mean, a group, and I don't know just exactly what Air Force group it was, and then we did have some P51s available, the P38s, and so they were used a considerable amount, and of course, with all of them, I mean, they had the direct fires, the .50 calibers. And we did use them an awful lot with the -- especially the P38s with the Napalm tanks and bombs, and they did a great job for us. I mean, that's a terrible way to treat the human beings, even though they are enemy, but again, you take the idea that if you don't kill them and get rid of them, why, you are going to get killed. And so --
Tell me a little bit about the artillary rounds, the different rounds that were available and what they were used for.
Basically, the main round we used was a high explosive round, and it had a fuse that was either delayed or on contact. We probably used it more on contact mainly from the standpoint, hit the ground, spread the shrapnel out. The delay, of course, was used as far as if we could get into an area where there was caves, why, you could -- you might call it a little bit lucky. You might be able to put one right into the mouth of the cave, but that was supposedly penetration and delay. I forget exactly the name. And then, they did come out with -- I think they called it a VC, which was a fuse that could be put on the projectile that -- and then we had time -- I'm sorry -- we had time, but the time had to be set on it. In other words, you had the computation of it, you had the flight of it, and it was supposedly to explode like 20 yards above the ground and spray the shrapnel out. Then they did come out with -- I think it was called a VC fuse, which was radio -- I don't know whether it was radioactive. Anyway it was a matter that you didn't have to set the time on it; it would come in so far by the ground. It would explode, spray the shrapnel out and, of course, we did have the smoke, could be different colors that would mark targets for us, mark them for -- generally for the Air Force support, and then the -- we did have phosphorous, again, a matter of burning them out. And then, they did, of course, at the end of the War, why, they had -- well, I suppose they had them all the time, but we didn't have them was where you have them explode and leaflets pulled out on them. But I don't recall that we ever fired any of those.
Tell us what time on target is, what that is and when you use that.
Okay. Time on target, as I recall, I don't think we used it very much.
No. You wouldn't have been in -- the European theater used it all the time, but in the Philippines.
Yeah. In other words, it was a matter of basically as I recall -- and you can correct me if I am wrong -- a barrage that was planned ahead of time. In other words, if the infantry was going to attack in an area, it would be a matter of -- that would be the time to come in just prior to the movement of the infantry in. Is that right?
That's one of the --
Like I say, we didn't use it very often.
The other one is to -- what you do is set a time, then you mass all the guns that can fire on a given target --
Okay.
-- if you have an enemy infantry guy in the open.
Right.
You fire all the --
Everything you got available.
Yeah.
That's right.
Mass on that target, all fire to land.
At the same time.
At the same time.
Yeah. And that's what I am referring to basically as a barrage, but we didn't have -- of course, any time we really did not have that mass concentration to enemy troops in the Pacific I don't believe. I mean, they were pretty well small groups that would come -- and I think many of them were facing the fact that we were going to win this son of a gun, especially when we got up to Luzon and the like. I grant you, there was other battles, Ie Shima and the like but not in the Philippine area.
No. The Philippines as opposed to New Giunea area, you are running these people, but these people have been used to having the Americans around and had feelings about Americans. How did the Philipinnos treat you guys?
Great. I think all of the Philipinnos, I mean, I don't know how it is now, but they were just little burios. You might say just little farm communities, and each one of them that we made contact with, I mean, they were -- they were very glad to see all of us, and they were thinking, I mean, I think in some case there were not very many of the villages or burios that were really destroyed you might say by the War area. But since they had been occupied for so long, why, they were -- they were glad to get rid of the Japanese people that were there. Now, I can't very well say about Manila mainly from the standpoint that was the only city, but MacArthur chose to have his First Cavalry recapture Manila, and so they went through us, went through Manila, and got into Manila before we did. That was just the orders that they had.
What -- what did you think of General MacArthur.
Of course, you have to realize that he had pretty much the say of everything over there as far as command. I only saw him once, and that was just going by, you might say, but I think he understood the Asian people probably better than anyone else, and he had very good commanders, and I think he utilized them really, really very well. I do think he was a real show me man, but nevertheless, I have to respect him as a general. I don't look at it that probably a man in his position made many of the decisions that really affected me right down to the last bit. I mean, he had other personnel that really did that particular bit. But I thought he was great. In fact, I have got old -- there was a laminating outfit here in town, and they laminated his speech to West Point. And I have it at home. But you know, I thought he was great, you know. And I really felt -- of course, the commander in chief actually is the commander in chief, and I felt that Truman was wrong in pulling him out when they did.
Well, MacArthur was one of those guys like Patton. You either love him, or you hate him.
Well, that's exactly right.
And you find both kinds.
I am enough of a hoffit (ph). I respected both of them. I mean, I really enjoyed seeing any articles pertaining to --
He apparently was quite a guy.
Yeah, he must have been quite an individual.
So what did you think of the Japanese in terms of as soldiers as the enemy?
Well, the ones that I saw, I mean, they were a dedicated group, but of course, I saw them pretty much as -- and felt that they were a group that were on the run. I think at the time that they -- those that were around were very isolated, and they were not in too good a shape anytime of the ones that I saw. I mean, I think they were living off the land. Their supplies were just not getting to them. And -- but I do think that they were probably good soldiers but had that attitude of maybe defeat, and they would do attacks at night. Most of their attacking was at night. East of Manila, they did have what we call the buzz bomb, and they would -- I don't know why, but you could almost set your watch by it, 6:50 in the morning and 6:50 at night that they would fire one of these rounds, and it was probably -- it was a rocket type of high explosive, and they would fire one and just hit the vicinity. Most of them landed outside the perimeter. They weren't too accurate as far as, I mean, the infantry companies or a company that I worked with would be on a Hilltop, and they only had one time they were hit within the perimeter of the infantry company. So we would work actually -- we would work small units. I mean, I -- well, you been -- in other words, in artillery battalion or infantry regimen, and then it is broke down as far as battery being in support of a certain battalion of the infantry regimen, and so you work with them.
Tell us -- tell us a little bit about some of the combat that you engaged in. Give us some examples of a couple fire fights so we know what the fighting was like.
Probably it would be most of it -- of course, it was a matter that the infantry was going in and our infantry -- pardon me -- believed in cleaning out an area entirely. In other words, when it was -- when we went through a small burio or went through trooper hills, why, it was a matter -- there were no stragglers left. Either they had moved on, they were dead, or they were prisoners, and really, there were very few prisoners.
Some of the combats that you actually were engaged in with the infantry, and we are talking about how he went through an area and just cleaned it out pretty much.
And it was a matter of cleaning out. And most of our operations were generally daylight operations, and once in a while, we'd go with an infantry platoon and go out on patrol to see what was out in the areas. And very often -- I mean, especially if there was a little bit more extensive area as far as a town instead of a farming community, why, there was actually a few buildings in the town, and there were a few areas down in the central valley of Luzon that actually we had those. So it was a matter of taking patrols out, and they may be out four or five miles, going out and seeing what was in an area and then coming back and formulating the situation as far as what they wanted to do as far as attack surrounding whatever the case may be. And so it was contact in that way. Of course, I mean, when we were out on patrol with the platoon, we really didn't want to have much contact and fortunately we never really did. But so it was -- it was a matter of the smaller group could move, even though it was across rice, dry rice paddy areas. We hit the season when it was fairly dry and the rice paddies were _____ +. And so we occupied hilltops when we were working with the company size units and established our full perimeter. Then, we would fire in concentrations in number, and then if there was -- and the Japanese would do quite a bit of their attacking at night as far as the infantry company areas were concerned, and then we could call in those numbers, the fire would come in on it, and basically, I mean that's how I happened to get the Bronze Star, was the fact, you might say, I had the radio all set up in my foxhole. And the perimeter did break, and you might say I was too scared to leave my radio, and so I called for fire, and that's how I happened to get the Bronze Star. Overall, I mean, our infantry company -- of course, I believe the Sixth Infantry Division -- in some place, I have this information, but I believe it was one of the divisions of the Army that had the longest continuous combat of any division in the, I think, South Pacific or maybe in Europe, I don't know, but as a division. I don't necessarily mean that we were, each one, every individual was involved, but units of the division were involved.
Okay. Can you describe the sound of the Japanese rifle? I understand it was a little distinctive.
I guess I never did think of it in that way. And so I really -- I don't think that I could.
I bet you remember the sound of a round zapping by your ear, though.
Those that you could hear, why, you don't worry about. I mean --
Good point because it is already by you.
That's right. That's right. That's what they say anyway.
One question just popped into my mind about thinking back to New Giunea and Watke (ph) Island. You said there was a PT outfit there. What did you think of those guys?
I never really did have very much contact with them, but it was sure fabulous to see them take off as a group. Now, I don't know where they went because I don't know what the range of a PT boat was, but you'd see two or three of them take off in a formation, and it was just great. I mean, the sound of those engines and everything and then to see them going out, skipping across the water, but I never really did have any contact with those fellows and whether they were going out -- I would say sometime they probably were going out to maybe a plane that had been ditched, like a bomber that had been ditched. They may have gone out for those on occasion. I don't know for sure. But my suspicion, that's what it was. But they also had there at Watke (ph) Island on the corral reef that went out into the water, why, they had a spot that these planes, these crippled planes, if they couldn't land on the airfield, why, they would actually land in the water, and then, of course, shallow water. They would settle in, and they would actually salvage parts off of the plane. And two or three of them came in and landed out there. But yeah, I was always impressed. I would like to have ridden on a PT boat and actually see that, but I wouldn't necessarily -- I wouldn't want their job. I still liked the land.
Well, what else stands out in your mind about the fighting in Luzon.
Probably being up on the line. We were after the commanding general headquarters, and he had moved clear up north to northern Luzon. I don't know how much he had as far as troops. I mean, we never -- we never really did have much contact with him, although we did a lot of firing. But it was a God awful place to get into, I mean, as far as roads and supplies, and this would have been in August, July and August of 1945 and just prior to the time the first atomic bomb had been dropped, and our supplies had to come in. It was across one area where we actually had to winch trucks back and forth, even though our Howitzers were pulled with caterpillars in, and they actually placed trucks so that they could winch them back and forth across this one swamp area, probably four or five hundred yards, and then it rose up as far as rice paddies, and some of the rice paddies were only about so wide. They could flood from the top right on down, and we were up in there and just a holding situation. And of course, I think along about four or five days before the first atomic bomb was dropped, why, they said just hold and do what you can. And we thought we had in one of the valleys, we thought we had command headquarters of Japanese. We did call in three of the P38s with Napalm. First plane went in and did just a beautiful drop where we had marked with smoke in this valley, and the second one came in, and I don't know, but he must have slipped down a little bit too low, but the Napalm came back up on his belly of the plane, and he rolled that baby over and dropped out. We sent out a patrol, but the Japanese had gotten him first. But about three or four days after the first bomb was dropped, they returned him to our lines, and I would guess he was probably no more than 21, 22 years old. And talk about a happy individual. He was really, really a great one. We were surprised. And he was well taken care of. All he had was just a little scratch on his leg from where he had come down on the trees, but I always was impressed with those P38s all the way through after they came out to the Pacific. But anyway, he was one of those things, and I think I was more than pleased as the bombs had been dropped. I think it saved a lot of lives. We had been scheduled -- in fact, we had been doing some training on an intermittent basis that we were to land on Osaka, I believe it was off the information that we had at that time. So I was very well pleased that the thing came to an end when it did.
Did you -- well, how did you guys hear about President Roosevelt dying, and how did you feel about that?
It was announced to us up on the line. I don't recall exactly where we were. We probably would have been down on central Luzon, but it was a matter -- I mean, our commander in chief had died, and there wasn't much we could do about it. Of course, you have to remember that an awful lot of us had never voted, so I mean, you are aware of things happening. I mean, I can -- I can remember way back into the '30s, but it is still a matter that when you are not really a voting person, why, you don't pay a lot of attention to that stuff. But yeah, commander in chief had died, and that was it. Probably it was a little worse when one of your commanders were actually killed on the line. And of course, you knew him a little bit closer or saw him a little closer, but we did have one -- one division commander that was killed over in another unit, but an awful lot of them -- you -- you really didn't see too much, a lot of the generals as far as right up on the line.
That's their job.
That's their job, yeah, that's right.
So after the War ends, you guys are part of the group that were rounding up the Japanese that came in to surrender?
No, not in -- we were in a shipped up -- well, actually, we were waiting, and we were still doing a little bit of training, but it was mostly just kind of sitting around, and then we did -- there was a lot of people -- I mean, you were on a point system as far as returning home, and I forget just what the number of points -- I think I had about 80 points. I mean, they were based on time in service, time overseas, awards, theater of occupation, and I think I had about 80 in. Those that had over 80 or -- I had 80, but I was, for instance, I had a choice of staying in the Philippines and going repple depple and coming, waiting for a ship to come back home. Our unit got scheduled to go to Korea, an Army of occupation, and I thought, well, there is more ships up around Japan than there is going back to the United States, than there is here in the Philippines, so I went with a unit up to Korea, and I was in Korea probably two weeks at the most.
What was that like?
Well, the Japanese had occupied Korea for 35 years I believe at that time, and basically, I mean it was the people. They were glad to get rid of the Japanese. They were glad to welcome Americans. It was pretty what you envision Third World to be. I mean, their buses were steam buses, and we had no -- we really had no maps of areas, and we were on an LST. When we went into Inchon Harbor, I believe it was up at Sinner Island (ph) up at Seoul. You probably had been there, so I don't know, but anyway, the tides were so great that we couldn't get into the -- they actually unloaded from a dry dock area, even though it was a landing ship. We couldn't get into the harbor where we needed to unload. And then -- and so we stayed out on the bay overnight, and in the morning, why, here we were sitting on the mud, and the Navy could walk out to the ship and act with us and the like. Next day the tied came in. We went into this -- I call it a dry dock because basically it was a matter of getting in there and floating enough to unload, and then we were based down about 60 miles from Seoul. Of course, the people were glad to see us. Our job -- I didn't get involved in it because I was a Jeep driver, and -- but our job was mainly to ride the trains. They were taking Japanese soldiers from south of the 38th parallel down to Pusan to send them back to Japan, and even the Japanese soldiers -- I was a Jeep driver, and I had an officer that had gotten married in the Philippines. And of course, he had to get the okay from all of the commanding on up in the division, so I was on the road actually driving around all the time and actually would -- and the only place we could really get good information -- and of course, you didn't know the pronunciation of towns or anything else, and we would come to an intersection. And there would be nobody around. And all of a sudden there would be 10, 12, 14, 20 people "which way do we go" and try to pronounce the name of a town or what. Finally, somebody would say, "oh, down that road." So we would go down -- down that road. Anyway the place where we really got good information was if we knew where a Japanese barracks was, we would actually go to the Japanese barracks, and they gave us good information because there was also an English speaking person around. They were well educated that way.
Well, tell me how you felt when you finally got back to the states.
Great, great. It was in December of 1945; came into Seattle. I was at Fort Lawton for a few days and then back to Fort Lewis. I ran into a friend that I had been in high school with up there, and he had been in the infantry unit of the Sixth Infantry Division but not the same unit we worked with. But anyway we came out of Fort Lewis together, and he was supposedly -- met his wife in Eugene and picked up the car to go on down to Cottage Grove. Of course, you are from Eugene, uh?
Right.
And I thought, well -- and we rode a bus down, and there were bus stations, and I said, well, I will just wait, and you go get the car. And after two or three hours, why, he didn't show up, and I was pretty sure that he wasn't going to so I hopped on a bus -- or no. Woman said "well, you haven't been home for quite sometime, have you?" I said "yeah, about 34 months." Anyway got on -- she said "welcome, up here, and get on this bus." Anyway I went in and I threw my duffel bag or my overcoat down in the seat, gonna put my bag up overhead, my duffel bag, and anyway, the guy in the seat said "I'm sorry this seat is taken." I said "oh, that's all right. I will just take a seat in the back here." Anyway it happened to be my brother that I hadn't seen for about four years sitting in the seat. So he asked the guy, he said, "hey, this is my brother that I haven't seen for so long. How about you changing seats?" So we went on down to Cottage Grove, and my brother went to the back door of the house, and I went to the front door, and they didn't know either one of us was coming either. So it was a surprise, but it was great to get home, yeah.
Well, you know, what do you think the War did to you or for you?
I think it was a fabulous experience. It gave me two or three years of maturity. I went on to college as far as the GI bill was concerned, got my education. So really, what more can you ask? I mean, I really didn't ever expect that much, but it was -- it was a good experience. I wouldn't necessarily want to go through it again, but at the same time, if they would make me young again, I would be glad to do it.
I can't think I can do either one of those things.
No. I am sure of that.
Are we forgetting anything? Well, is there anything you want to add just for posterity sake before we turn the camera off?
Well, I would like to -- about the only thing I'd like to say is that I really would hope that more people are supporting our president, and I don't believe the news media is always doing us right on giving the disastrous parts of all the things that are going wrong, that are going on. I think there are a lot of good things that are happening in Iraq, around the world that we are doing, and so support those people that are making the decisions, and that's it.
Okay. (Interview concluded.)