Encoded for the Experiencing War web site for the Veterans History Project.
The recording of the interview with Robin Lea Smith Fuller was digitized.
This transcription was encoded with minimal changes to the original text in an effort to preserve original content and idiosyncrasies of the person interviewed. Period language and terminology are also retained. Encoding is literal with regard to the transcriptionist's capitalization, punctuation, and spelling. Spelling errors are indicated with [sic]; however, recurring errors in spelling within a single document have been marked the first time and not subsequently.
Today is Thursday, March 20th, 2003, and this is the beginning of an interview with Robin Fuller on the campus of the University of Notre Dame in Indiana. Robin was born on [birthdate redacted]. My name is Stephanie Lee, and, I, along with Gabriella Garcasada (ph) will be the interviewers. Robin, would you please state for the record what war and what branch of service you served in as well as your rank and where you served.
It was the Gulf War in the Army. I was stationed at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, and -- you said the rank?
Uh-huh.
Specialist. E4.
Were you drafted or did you enlist?
I enlisted.
And where were you living at the time that you enlisted?
Owensboro, Kentucky.
Why did you join?
I joined the military because I was at a time in my life when I was going to college and working full-time, and I just didn't feel like I was accomplishing much with my life; and I wanted to do something different. I wanted to have some adventure I guess you could say and also set some goals for myself and achieve those goals like accomplishing basic training and AIT and -- and things that I would, you know, pursue later on. That's basically the reason why I joined the military. They also offered me a job or they tried to offer me a job that I -- I would like in a field that I liked, military intelligence, that would give me some excitement and that adventure that I sought out. So that is why I joined.
Why did you pick the Army?
I guess it chose me really. There is no specific reason why I chose the Army. It -- it was just there I guess.
What were your first few days like in the service?
It was frightening. I was anxious. Afraid of the unknown, what was to come next. Those were the first few days. I guess it was also shock treatment, you know, the drill sergeants were trying to shock you and to see who was going to make it or who wasn't because they had to weed out, you know, the weak ones so it was scary the first couple days.
Can you tell us about training or boot camp experiences that you've had?
Yes. We experienced a wide variety of training in basic training. We had to learn to take apart and clean and reassemble an M-16. We were timed in that part. We had to learn how to put on a protective mask correctly, and we had -- we were timed on that as well. We learned how to throw a grenade. We also shot an M-60 machine gun. We went through a gas chamber and had to be exposed to the tear gas and -- and stay in there a certain amount of time before we were allowed to leave. We learned how to dig fox holes, to live out in the woods for a few days at a time. We learned how to march correctly, and we learned how to turn and respond and we had to know rank structure. And then we also had physical training. We learned also about radios and electronics, communications. And also during that time in basic training -- I was at Fort Jackson, South Carolina. We also experienced Hurricane Hugo so Fort Jackson actually was effected a little bit by the hurricane. We lost electricity. It happened to be the reason week that we were receiving our M-16 training which is called BRM Basic Rifle and Markmanship, it was during that week that we were receiving BRM training. And a couple days of that were shortened due to the -- the high winds and the loss of electricity, we had to go out on to the rifle ranges and pick up branches that had fallen off the trees, and we had to spend a day doing that so we had a lot of training in basic training.
It seems like all these new experiences would be a little overwhelming. How did you cope with all this newness and all these things that you had to pick up all at one time?
How did I cope with it? Well, I -- a lot of positive self-talk I guess you could say and self-confidence. I knew that I could make it. This -- these were things that were being taught to people. Thousands of people had gone through the same exact training as myself, and I was confident that I could get it. So -- and then you had -- you make friends and -- and -- and you -- you get support from your friends there. You make friends very quickly because you're in such close quarters, and you're doing everything with them 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and you start to rely on them and that is what the military wants you to do because so many -- so many jobs and things are done as a team, and you have to learn how to do that anyway.
Can you describe your instructors and how you interacted with them?
The instructors were -- the -- the drill instructors at basic training are the ones I'm referring to right now. They -- they were smart, tough, drill -- drill instructors. I did have a female as well in there, and she was probably more tough than -- than the males. So it was nice to see they -- they were tough but fair. Let's put it that way. And my interaction with them was, you know -- we had daily interaction with them because we were together every day and they were like teachers. So if you could imagine a teacher-student type relationship, that's the kind of relationship we had.
And you served in the Gulf War, correct?
Yes.
Where exactly did you go?
Saudi Arabia.
Do you remember arriving and what it was like when you got for there and how you felt at that time?
Yes. I remember arriving. We flew over on a civilian airplane, and I can remember the day that the doors opened on that aircraft, and I could see the heat coming off the runway and it was just visible heat coming off the -- the tarmac there and it was September -- September 8th. And it was still very hot over there at that time, and the first week we all had to adjust to the climate, and the heat really -- until you get climatized to that type of weather, the heat really wears -- wears you down and so the first week we did a lot of sleeping because that's how you adjust and -- and we had to also work outside in that heat because it was basically -- nothing was erected no temps were erected or anything and so it was a lot of drinking water, working out in the heat, and taking a lot of breaks so we wouldn't have any heatstrokes or heat exhaustions and whatnot. So everyone is very, you know, cautious of that -- that happening so it was drinking a lot of water and getting some sleep also.
Were you frightened to be there? Were you anxious, nervous?
No. I mean, after we arrived and there really wasn't a threat at that time, no. We weren't nervous. I guess what we were afraid of were the scorpions.
Those are scary too.
Yes because they could climb up -- climb inside your boots in the middle of the night and you not know that they're there and you go to put your boots on -- you have to be careful and check everything. They can -- they can crawl into, you know, very small spaces.
Can you describe your job or your assignment and go into a little bit of detail on that for us?
Okay. I was in military intelligence. I was a signals intelligence analyst/electronic warfare, and that basically is just analyzing enemy movements or enemy positions through radio communications and it's very interesting. The -- the training for that was seven months long, and it was very intense, and it was very hard school. We realized when I was -- when we were at that school that it was very serious stuff, and we had to really know everything in order to pass that. So I was set up in a tactical operation center. It's called TOC for short, and we had a lot of traffic is what they call it. Traffic is information that comes across a computer or a radio, and it's just monitoring that traffic.
You said that you attended school for this position, where was the school and how long was the program that you had to go through?
The school was at Good Fellow Air Force Base Texas in San Angelo, and I attended that directly following basic training and it was seven months long; that is, if you don't get washed out or washed back or held back. In other words, if you don't make it through a certain level, then you have to wait and go through again. So it was seven months.
How did you become interested in this particular field?
Well, it -- it also has a language option. And I was very interested in language. So when I was at a recruiter that was brought up to me, it just seemed like an exciting job. You -- you could do things that not everyone in the military gets to do, and it's -- it's I guess a prestigious job also way not everyone can be in military intelligence. So I was lucky enough to do well on the test that you have to take to enter the military in the first place. I had scored very well on that test, and the recruiters then tried to tailor my interest with the score. It's called the ASVAB test is what -- take. The Armed Service Vocational Aptitude Battery is what it's called and so they try to -- your interest. They want to, you know, please the soldier. They want to make that experience as -- as good and positive one as possible so they try to tailor your interests so that's what we did.
Okay.
And I was lucky enough to have that the job available to me. You know, I could go in there and say I want this, but the job also has to be available as well. So I was lucky enough that time that the job was available.
When you were in Saudi Arabia, did you see combat or did anyone in your division see combat?
Well, everyone saw combat, but combat per se like shooting 16? No. I did not personally shoot my weapon. But my division, the -- the 101st Airborne Division had apache helicopters, and they were used in combat so pilots and mechanics of those aircraft and, you know, the navigators and the other personnel on that aircraft, they saw combat. Everyone over there had -- was technically, you know, had combat, but I personally did not.
Can you actually define combat for us or what the term actually means in the sense that you're using it?
I would say combat to me means some kind of interaction with the enemy. Maybe physical or with the use of some type of vehicle, some motorized vehicle or aircraft where ammunition is being used. I would say that would be combat to me, you know, but we were in a combat situation. Everyone was in a combat situation. I guess I should explain myself. Even though I did not see combat per se, I was in a combat situation. And if you were over there, you were in a combat situation.
Okay. Can you tell us about one of your memorable experiences?
Yes. This was after the -- the war ended and we had gotten word that we were going to disassemble our camp and go back to the camp that we had previously been at before the air war started and this was actually in March as well ___. And I guess in March in Saudi Arabia they can get some -- some rain and there had also been a very harsh winter, and I remember hearing that the Saudi Arabians, the people in that area blamed the Americans for having such a harsh winter. It got down to 26 degrees I remember and -- so it was like a little joke that the Americans brought the cold weather with them. So this was when we were trying to break down camp, and it started to rain and it didn't stop. And our ___ set up in what they call over there a wadi. It's like a little valley in other words. And if you can imagine rain coming down so hard, it's created like a little pond or a lake, and we were in the process of tearing down camp and we hadn't completed yet and it was raining so hard and so long all in our ponchos and we were just drenched you could imagine. And everyone was having a hard time moving things around because of the rain. It just really made things hard and I could even remember this what ___ it's a big truck almost like a semi but not as long. We had foxholes, you know, positioned all around the perimeter of the camp, and so once the water started to come we didn't know where these fox holes were and the trucks were driving around and I could remember this duce and a half was driving and drove into a foxhole. Of course, he didn't drive into the foxhole because the foxhole wasn't as big as the vehicle, but he did get turned over so he was tilted and he -- and he got stuck, and I can still remember that truck and everyone wondering what was going to happen because we couldn't get a vehicle in to pull it out, and we all had to go and we had to leave it there and it had to get pulled out at a later date. So that was a memorable occasion, and then, of course, we ___ pictures and I still have pictures to this day of all of us being drenched and us looking so sad and worn out because it ___ a hard day. But that was a memorable occasion. And then I guess -- I guess another -- I'm sorry. Another memorable occasion would be probably the first time it was the -- the first night of the ___ and we had an alarm go off -- an alarm saying there was a missile that had been launched or fired and possibly could be coming our way. And so the first time we ever had to -- protective mask and everything was a frightening experience and so I remember that as well.
Can you describe in the camp -- I know you just talked about tearing it down, but can you tell us a little bit about what it was like actually living there?
Yes. There actually was two different kinds of life. There was life in the camp before the air war because I was there roughly five months before the air war started, and there was life in camp after the air war. Before the air war started, somewhat relaxed. We had big tents, and we had, like, groups of -- in a tent so I had like five other females with me, and we had -- it was like a normal day, like, work you would work your shift. If you had to work eight hours or whatever, you would walk to wherever your work was, you would break for lunch, you would come back, you would -- if you had to clean your little area in your tent or if you needed to do laundry or take a shower or, you know, eat chow, eat dinner. It was pretty ____ before the air war started, we would also go training in the field or in the dessert once -- once a month seeing exercises as well but once the air war started, it was -- it was different. It was much more serious. Life -- you know, life was at stake here, and we had to pull guard whereas at camp before, it was basically the MPs and people like that but we had to actually pull ____ in a foxhole. We had to, you know, we had -- we had shift for that. And my routine is working a shift in -- in the talk from two a.m. to two p.m. I had 12s and so I was getting up in the middle of the night to get dressed in the dark basically. I mean, we had flash nights or whatnot, but if I didn't want to disturb the other people sleeping, you know. We would walk to work. Camp with tents were spread out sporadically and revolved around your work really and what was happening. It was such a short war that that didn't last probably about, you know, a month, maybe. So there was two type -- two types of life over there.
Did you meet up with any cultural barriers or cultural clashes being in a foreign country like that?
Well, I guess just being American is -- would -- would've been a clash, but being a female also was an added clash or an added pressure. The females were asked ___ their jackets so their arms would not be shown, and we did try to, you know, abide by their ___. We didn't really interact with the nationals or the -- the -- the Saudi Arabians too much. I personally didn't -- didn't have too much interaction, but I do remember that being -- when we were in camp, we were just with other military personnel, American military personnel, and it was, you know, guarded and so we didn't have any nationals in there. But occasionally, you know, we would -- we would ___ and -- and be quiet and calm or whatever and not -- not cause ___.
Were you awarded any medals or any honors of any sort?
Yes. Southwest Asian medal and Saudi Arabia also issued a medal for all the troops.
And what do your awards signify?
It signified, I guess, a thank you for when -- for America and for Kuwait and for Saudi Arabia as well. It signified work. It signified dedication. So that's what it meant to me.
Did you stay in touch with your family?
Yes. Luckily I was able to stay in touch. We did receive mail when we were there going out and coming in. So my mother was quite creative and made some very nice presents. I was there over Christmas, and she sent me a little miniature Christmas tree so had my own little Christmas. So we had regular mail. It was -- it was very nice and that we all looked forward to, and then I made phone calls as well. Not -- I would try to call family and friends, but mail was our -- our I guess our best communication.
What was the food like?
The food. Well, we did not eat any type of, you know, Saudi Arabian ___. A meal ready to eat which is the -- the -- the food that the military gives in the field. But before the air war started, we had, like, chow hall meal food. It was ___ is what they call it, and so we had that for about five months. Every once in a while we retrieved with ___. That was nice. But there was -- we had to be careful because the people in the mid east do not clean or prepare their food like we do so there are certain bacterias on fresh produce that ___ and I can remember one time we had salad and -- and steak for dinner, and for whatever reason almost the whole camp sick. We got sick from -- from this. So we didn't do that too often. We -- we ate chow often, and then once -- when the air war started we had MREs. What was that like? Nowadays, the MREs are much better than they were 10 years ago as I'm told so we ___ Tabasco sauce was used a lot on a lot of the -- the entrees. We were lucky ___ water and we would take our canteen cup and we would boil that water on a little butane stove, and our entree in the boiling water so it would at least be hot for us so that was one thing that we did for the MREs.
Did you have plenty of supplies? A. Yes, we did. We had -- well, we had lots of people back in the states sending us all kinds of ___ soap and lotion and tissues and, you know, all kinds of things so we were lucky to have lots of people taking care of us, sending us care packages. But then, you know, the supply in general the ___ were taking care of that as well.
And did you feel pressure, stress while you were there?
It -- you know, it can get old after a while, but you learn and you rely on your friends for support, that kind of network. You try to call home ___ and maybe do a little bit of exercising to relieve some stress or maybe we got lucky enough we could watch a movie or, you know, listen to music. Things like that.
___....
Yes. We were lucky to have Victor Steve Martin come to my particular area and so we ___ get some autographs, and at Christmas time, Bob Hope came over with the USO and Aaron Tippen, the country singer, also performed so that was a nice, nice treat. There were some soldiers as well who had been -- who had been stationed over there for a longer time than I that received some R and R which was rest and relaxation and before the air war started, they were allowed to go to I guess what you would call a resort. They were allowed to go to a resort there in Kuwait, I believe it was. I think it was called Half Moon Bay, and some soldiers were go -- were allowed to go there and go swimming and water skiing.
Did you keep a personal diary?
I do regret not keeping a personal diary, but I have saved lots of letters and -- and things like that -- that have been -- I kept through the years that were important to me.
Do you recall the day your service ended?
Yes. That was August 23rd, 1992, and at Fort Campbell Kentucky. It was pretty low key. I mean, I was -- it was a happy day for me, but I had been through a lot of out processing and a lot of paperwork so that's -- that's what is involved when you are exiting the military, a lot of paperwork and things like that so I do remember that day. I think the last stop I made was in the finance office which is the money office, bank.
And what did you do in the days and weeks afterwards?
I relaxed at home with my baby daughter, and then I decided to go back to college with the GI bill.
So your education was supported by the military?
Yes, it was. I got my college degree with the GI bill.
Did you make any close friendships while ___.
Yes. I made a lot of close friendships. My best friend that was my roommate -- when I first arrived at Fort Campbell, she was my roommate in the barics. She and I have kept contact throughout the years. Inevitably, if you're in the military for any length of time, you will come across people that you have met in previous years because it is -- although it's a large community, you do run into the same people a lot. Especially whatever job you're in, you'll run across a lot of people so that is -- that's the nice thing about it.
What did you do in terms of a career after your service ended?
Well, I did go back to college, and I got a degree in social work, a bachelor science in social work, but I did not go to work right away. I wanted to stay at home with my child, and then when she was of school age, I started doing some social work jobs.
And did you immediately come here to Indiana and start at the food bank or did that come later?
That came much later. I was married to a military person as well, and we travelled around through various duty locations.
Okay. Did your military experience influence your thinking about war or about the military in general? Were your perceptions that you previously held changed through your experiences?
I would say they have changed just because that I have experienced a lot of what is on the news right now or just military in general. Sometimes people cannot imagine what it's like to be in the military or what you do in the military. It seems like it's another world. So my experience I -- I feel like my perception has -- has changed. Yes.
As a followup to that question, what do you think of the current situation in Iraq and how the United States is pursuing its campaign?
Well, I believe that Hussein does need to get taken out of power. I do believe that he has been lying to the world for 12 years, and I do believe that he will do anything to stay in power and because he has broken the UN sanctions, the UN laws, the regulations, and he will basically, you know, kill and torture people, has done that to his own people that he will do that to Americans as well. And since 9/11, America and other -- and its other allies have to think about this. They can't -- I believe they cannot let something like this go unchecked, and since he is the type of person that has lied and will continue to lie and will kill and has broken those agreements that he has promised to keep, something does have to be -- be done and we have given him plenty of time, plenty of warning to get out. So I feel that it is necessary for America and its allies to be doing this. It would've been nice to have the UN to back America in its allies, but this is something that has to stop. This way of life -- not the way of life, but this man, his way of life, has to stop. He cannot be torturing and killing people and trying to take over the world basically and if this is a way or the only way to do it, then it should be done.
I've heard it said that the Gulf War that you were involved in should have been prolonged so that Saddam Hussein was taken out of power at that time. Do you agree with that statement?
Well, I do and I don't. It would've been nice to have him taken out of power then, although who knows how many more lives would have been lost in doing that. Who knows. I may have seen real combat at that time. But America did not want to have another Vietnam, meaning that they did not want the American troops that were in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait to stay over there for years like they were in Vietnam and so President Bush had promised the American people that he would get us in and out as soon as possible, and since our -- our objective was to get the troops out of Kuwait and protect Kuwait, our objective really wasn't to kill Hussein at that time although if it that was possible I'm sure we would've done that. But the objective was it was to protect Kuwait because he had invaded Kuwait and since we had succeeded in that objective, then President Bush wanted to make sure that we didn't have another Vietnam and so that is why I feel that he -- he brought everybody back really quickly just so that we would get home safe.
We were also curious as your experiences as a woman in the military. Could you just describe what it's like to be a female in a, I guess, male-dominated organization?
Yes. It is male-dominated, and -- but there are thousands of women in the military as well. You see women in the military mostly in the medical field or the administrative part of the military and military intelligence. Those are where they are predominantly located. My experience personally was a positive one. I would think it would depend on the woman's personality and how she can handle certain things. Now, there are -- there's going to be problems with coworkers in the military as well as there are problems in the civilian world. So I think that's common to both worlds, and you just have to deal with that as you go along. The men are, I feel, understanding about women and women's problems or the issues that we have to deal with. I think for the most part they are understanding. Some of them feel like they have to deal with it because they are made to deal with it, and it's just one -- another thing that they have to bear in other words. So you have -- there are men with the attitude, well, you know, I'm told I have to do this so this is why I'm doing this. I'm told I have to allow you to do this so that's why I'm doing it. And it is frustrating to have to deal with men or work with men who have that attitude, and then there are ones that feel like that women are equal. And can -- as long as they can do what they are supposed to be doing up to standard, then they have every right to be there as well and they are -- you know, are good with it. So but my -- my -- my experience was positive, and I think it also takes a certain kind of woman as well to be in the military.
Do you think it's getting easier for women to enter the military, or is it currently the same intensity or the same, I guess, level of difficulty for a woman to enter the military as it was when you entered?
I think the -- the level of difficulty is still the same, the standards are still the same. I do remember when I was in there was talk about women in the combat roles which would be like infantry or roles where they would actually have to do fighting where they -- where women weren't allowed. I personally do not think that women should be in combat roles. I personally don't and I'm a woman and I don't think they should because whether or not a woman can -- can do what a man can do which, in my opinion, a woman can't do those certain things that are required, there are still other -- other issues that are surrounding them, a man and a woman, that are going to complicate matters. So I just don't think that -- that women -- a woman should get placed in that situation or a man should have to be faced with that. But today's military, they are -- it seems to be they are accepting women more so in combat roles so it's becoming more open. You see that now in the military schools where it used to be all male and now women are being admitted, but I think the level of difficulty is still there. I do believe also that a woman has to prove herself more times over in order to be seen as successful or competent so that is something that a woman always is going to have to face I believe at least in my lifetime -- in our lifetime. So -- so when you see a woman that can do those things, it's really -- she is very intelligent, she -- she's got a strong personality, she's confident, and she can withstand heavy stress. She can focus and concentrate extremely well. That right there is -- is a big thing. So those kind of women are -- are rare, and, you know, we want those kind of women in the military as well. And maybe -- maybe I'll change my mind about women in combat roles, but, you know, maybe I will one day. But right now, I don't think they should because it -- it would just complicate matters too much.
If you met someone my age or Gabby's age about 21 years old who was considering joining the Army or some branch of the military, what kind of advice would you give to that person?
Well, I would say, you know, go for it. Great. Because it is a wonderful life. I love the military life, and I would think it would be probably one of the best decisions that a person can make. It's -- the military is going to do nothing but good for you I believe. But I would also advise them to -- if they're of college age, try to go to college first. That is -- that is so helpful for anyone military, you know, or civilian. It would just allow you to be in a more leadership role in the military and to get a lot of experience in front of people, talking, leading, just give you a lot of confidence, and it'll prepare you for, you know, life later, jobs that you might want to have later in life and so -- but even in the -- the enlisted ranks, which is what I was in, still you -- you can grow and mature and become responsible and a well-rounded, you know, mature person that -- that the military is -- is something that is very beneficial for anyone.
Is there anything else that you'd like to comment on before we close this evening?
Well, I just thank you very much for meeting with me. It was a pleasure for me to do this, and I love talking about the military and I just had a great time when I was in the military and I wish more people would go in the military because it is -- it is something that a person will just grow from and really become a good person I think and will learn some great values and integrity and loyalty and everything that is good, you'll learn it in the military and so I just really enjoy doing this and I thank you and I just hope that the military stays strong like it is now for, you know, like a long time to come.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.