Encoded for the Experiencing War web site for the Veterans History Project.
The recording of the interview with Francis Nero was digitized.
This transcription was encoded with minimal changes to the original text in an effort to preserve original content and idiosyncrasies of the person interviewed. Period language and terminology are also retained. Encoding is literal with regard to the transcriptionist's capitalization, punctuation, and spelling. Spelling errors are indicated with [sic]; however, recurring errors in spelling within a single document have been marked the first time and not subsequently.
I was born and raised in Laurel District. Went to school, the county school. Elliott was the name of it, two miles from home, ____+. We had to walk every day. And then we went to Delmar School.
How many kids were in that school, do you remember?
Oh, approximately 15.
So it was a one-room --
One-room school.
Is it still there?
No. It has been gone years.
Oh, has it?
There's only two in the first grade when I was there.
Two?
Could be two. And then we transferred over to Delmar School. And I went there until I was 14. And then I had to stop and go to work. My parents died. And --
Are we rolling? Oh, good. Okay.
And I worked on the farm until I was about 17, I think it was. And I moved off and went to work -- I did construction work at the high school in Seaford.
You might have worked for my -- my grandfather's company.
Might have. I don't know.
Elko Engineering.
I don't know. I only worked there about six months, and the school was finished. And it was all over.
What year was that?
'39.
'39?
Yeah. And in 1940, the war broke out. I was working at Seaford Cabinet Shop.
So you are a carpenter by trade?
I was in the beginning, and then I went into cabinet work. On December the 7th I was working at Seaford's Cabinet Shop when the war broke out. And I was not drafted until 1943, October 20. Until that time, I worked on the farm. But my boss was drafted before I was so the plant closed.
So you were working in the cabinet shop of Dupont?
No. No.
No?
For the furniture plant, Blathe (ph) Furniture Plant.
Blathe?
Blathe. And it closed down in '43 because my boss got drafted.
Where did you learn cabinetry work?
Right there.
Right there?
Right there. I started in March, I think it was. And in six months -- I started off at 25 cents an hour. And in six months, I was foreman in the shop. Got 60 cents an hour. Big wages, isn't it? And from there, let's see, when that closed up, I went back on the farm to 1943. In October, I was drafted, on the 20th.
Were you married before the war or after?
Before.
Well, tell me a little bit about that.
Well, I was married in 1940. In other words, our anniversary is the 20th of July. 65 years we have been married. I am going on 85. My wife is 80.
Now, what happened to your second wife -- or, your first wife?
She's still taking care of me.
She's too young.
I am afraid that's it.
Now, I am waiting for the second one because she's too young.
Sorry, but that's her. We have been together ever since.
How did you two meet?
Well, boy, that's funny. I was working in a canning house in Laurel. We canned tomatoes. And she'd go by going to school. And I seen her on the sidewalk. And I hollered to her, and she'd just walk right straight, you know, she didn't know nothing, didn't pay no attention. Once in a while she'd go like that (indicating). From there, I kept watching as she'd come out of school and go home. And from there, we got connected. And we are still here.
So you were off to war. You are -- so tell me on December 7, 1941, you were working where?
Cabinet shop in Seaford doing the store fixtures, show cases, chairs, whatever they needed. And that lasted until '43 when the boss got drafted. And he had to sell out. The place closed up. And I worked on the farm until the fall of '43. And the draft board said, Come here. And that was on October the 20th. I went for an examination at Fort Dix. They sent me home and back for three weeks. And I reported back November 11. And from there, I went to Fort Dix again when I reported. And then there a couple of days later, we went down to Biloxi, Alabama, Fort -- Fort McCullen.
McClellan.
Yeah. Fort McClellan. Had 17 weeks of basic training. While I was there, about -- been there about three or four weeks and she came down and stayed the rest of the time with me. When the 17 weeks was over, I and another guy that was from Seaford was held back and helped train the next bunch. And two weeks later orders come down all A-1s goes overseas and away we went. I went back to Fort Meade. That's where I had to report. From Fort Meade, they sent me to Austin. And June the 6th, 8:00 in the morning, we boarded the ship for England on D-Day. (5 MINUTES) And we landed there on the 12th of July -- I mean, 12th of June. And I was more -- they moved me around, I don't know, until we went back to Southampton to go across the channel. Went across the channel on the 15th or the 12th of July, I don't remember which. And I joined my outfit, I believe it was, the 19th of July, Fourth Division, called the (Redman) Company K.
Now, they had already been --
Oh, yeah, they hit the beach D-Day. There -- that was one of the divisions that did. The First, 29th, and the Fourth hit Normandy on D-Day. And the first battle I got into -- well, we laid in the orchard for, I don't know, must have been a week. Can't keep track of days. All of a sudden I never seen so many bombers go over our heads. They said it was 3,000. That was only (?brook Saint low?) They tore that up with them bombers. And we was out of there. And you wouldn't believe what was tore up. Everything; dead animals, Germans, shoo, what a mess. And from there, we just kept moving and fighting until we got to Paris. We was the first ones to Paris, August the 25th. We was the first ones there. From there, we stayed a couple days on the outskirts and we headed for the Siegfried Line. And it took us from December the 9th, if I am not mistaken, before we was to the Siegfried Line. And we was on that about a week or two. We took three pill boxes, and they shoved us back.
How bad was that?
Oh, it was bad.
I mean, how bad was it? On top of that, you had the weather? You had the weather, right?
No. No. September? No, just like here. Weather there, hardly any difference. But from there, they give us a -- pulled us back for two days for meals and went back again. And we just kept pushing and pushing. And on January 29, I got hit the first time. I was in the hospital about four days and back to the frontline. And we just went from there to the north, fighting, back to the south. We'd be in the Third Army. Then back to the First Army. Then shifting back to the Fourth. And I think that's the reason I got five bronze battle stars. I was in every major battle sections they had there. And on May the 2nd, I got hit the last time. I went back for four days and back up front again. But there was no more front then because it was all over with.
What was your job?
I was -- well, I was just a private when I went in, you know, in the Third Squad K Company. And on December the -- no, November the 21st, they called me to the office. And the captain said, You're getting staff sergeant stripes. You going to be a platoon guide. Okay. So we had another week of battle and pulled back. And they called me to the office again. He said, Nero, you are a tech sergeant now. You take over the platoon. And I thought, I don't want it, I am not going to take it, I don't want it. Well, he said, It is up to you. You can either take it and not get paid, or take it and get paid. And I said, All right, I will get paid then. I will take it. So that's what I was discharged as, a tech sergeant.
What were your specialties there? Were you a good rifleman? Were you a good -- did you handle the equipment? What did you do?
Anybody in the infantry division got to be a good rifleman. I mean, that's all he carries is a rifle. And I was a platoon leader. I had three squads underneath of me. And there's supposed to be at least 11 men to a squad. So you'd have anywhere from three to 11, two B squads. And we moved up into that Ardennes Forest November the 7th. They were giving us a bad fight over there. And we went in with a full platoon. And when we walked out of there, it was me and two more were the original ones that went in. But we had replacements coming up all of the time. And we got out of there December the 3rd, went down to Luxembourg for a rest period, had a stagnant line where you just hold. Nothing goes on. And, of course, December the 16th, of all of the luck, the Bulge, the Battle the Bulge begins. We held our line. We never give. Never give an inch. And that's where we got the Presidential citation.
Well, the weather was rough then, wasn't it?
Oh, yeah; snow, snow, and more snow. Of course, all through the -- from when we landed there until the war was over, you either have sunshine, cloudy, rain, or fog. I mean, just like normal weather here. And I never changed clothes but one time in August after I went across. And the next time I changed clothes or stockings or anything was in November in the Ardennes Forest. (10 MINUTES 2 SECONDS) Can you believe wearing clothes that long but never changing?
That's probably why you only had a three-man squad sometimes.
(Laugher) No, but it is the truth. I mean, you ain't got no time to change clothes, to shower, shave, or nothing. And when they took us out and run us through the showers, it was pipes with a water stream going out of them. And we went through and they gave us all new clothes, shoes, everything and all. And we walked by the next platoon coming in to wash. They stunk. And you knew we must have stunk just as bad as they did. But you don't know because you all stink the same.
What was probably the worst battle?
Worst battle was the Battle of the Bulge. We was cut off from December the 16th, me and 13 men and three tanks into a town until December the 27th, the Fifth Division broke in there and got us out. We never give an inch. Never lost a man. We had a German company come over the hill on us. We was supposed to stay out until 4:00 and pull back if nothing happened. And the lieutenant of the tank come to me, Say, it is 10 minutes to 4:00, let's pull out. And I said, No, the order to me was we stay here until 4:00. And at five minutes to 4:00 here they come. We waited until they got so close. And, oh, man, they all opened up. We took 31 prisoners.
Really?
Killed 'em all. But that weren't bad. I mean, they didn't even get a chance to shoot at us. I didn't hear a shot or bullet go by. Three tanks, two machine guns on each one, and a (?.78?) Rifle on them. They just blowed them to hell and back. From then on, we just more push and go. And the last --
Did you take some prisoners there?
31.
What did you do with them? How long were you there with them?
Well, until December 27.
What --
We locked --
That was tough, wasn't it?
No. We locked them up in the barn and keep them there. We didn't get no rations. They didn't either. They ate what they had with them. And from there, it pretty well broke through pretty good.
We have heard other stories that prisoners at that time were probably tired. They just -- they were fairly easy anyway. They weren't -- they weren't getting ready to run or anything anymore.
What? The prisoners?
Yeah.
You got to be kidding.
Well, tell me about that.
Well, where I was at, we never got to move around bad into it. But the Battle of the Bulge, the bad part, the Germans, they killed prisoners. They didn't take them. I mean, just mowed 'em down. And, of course, that's what made the GI fight that much harder. They going to kill you. Doesn't do any good to give up.
No. I am talking about the German prisoners. The German prisoners they said later on.
Oh, you mean later on?
Yeah. They just sort of gave up?
Oh, yeah. About two or three months later after that was all over, yeah. Because on December the 29th, the day I got hit for the last time, two of my buddies went out to get a deer for the cooks to cook for us. They said they'd cook it if we get one. So we went out walking and noticed -- with riles on our shoulders, walked around, looking down. And we went up on some kind of grade. We were up on a grade and I looked down. And my God, I could have shit on myself. 81 Germans. They had their rifles all stacked up wanting to give up. And we walked them back to the company; 81. We wouldn't have stood a chance, would we? But at that time they were giving up. I mean, it was -- there was nothing left. We was going moving 30, 35 miles a day on the tanks and half-tracks.
Well, the 31 that you had locked up at the barn --
Fifth Division took care of them.
But you had to watch them for a while?
Well, not me, but the other guys did.
Well, how many? If there's only a few of you guys, right?
Yeah. But the I Company had some men there, too. We went there to support I Company. They had a few men there. And they took the job of watching the guards -- or watching the prisoners, I mean. We didn't. We stayed on the line in case somebody come up. And when the Fifth Division come in there, well, they took everything and carried us back to their outfit. And I don't know where they carried us back. Because it was dark when we left and dark when we got there. And they don't tell you what town you are in or what section you are in. You are cattle. They just move you along.
What was your last battle? Was it Battle of the Bulge?
That was the last big battle, yeah.
Okay. And you moved on to Luxembourg?
We was in Luxembourg when the battle broke out.
Okay.
We was on the southern shoulder of the Bulge. And we had orders we never give. They wanted Luxembourg because they had five different highways coming in there so they could move their Army, but we never budged. And, of course, they wanted it. But what was the name of the town, Bastogne, they never took it either. Them boys, they'd never give up that town, but they moved right straight through like they did to us.
What was -- how old were you then?
23.
What was it like when you first went into the battle? I mean, were you --
Scared shitless.
Okay, that's good.
Best I can tell you. And anybody tell you any different -- and once you get in it, you don't realize it no more. You don't -- then you get scared after it is over. And then you start shaking. But once it starts, you lose it.
The second battle got a little easier?
I don't think so. They were all bad. I couldn't see no difference between the first, the last, or nothing. I mean, they are all the same. You get into a fight, you either fight or die, one or the other.
How -- during the height of those battles, what kind of sleep did you get, if you got any?
(Laughter) Sleep. You didn't get no sleep. The only time you'd get -- see, battles don't last 24 hours. They may last for two hours and dies for a while. And then they come at you again. And every time they come at you, you beat 'em back. But you don't sleep. And if you do sleep, the guy next to you stays awake and watches for them and wakes you up. One sleeps. One stays awake.
So what was the last -- right before the end there before you left, what was the last -- were you in the hospital then or were you back out in the field again?
I went to the hospital November the -- May the 2nd. And that's the last time I got hit. But the war was over a week after that. There wasn't no fighting after that. We couldn't even catch 'em. We was moving anywhere from 20 to 35 miles a day. You can't move faster than that with an Army. And we had to ride the tanks and half-tracks then to get -- to even get near 'em.
So where did you end up at the end?
Right close to the Austrian border.
Were you in Germany?
Oh, yeah.
You were in Germany?
Oh, yeah. I told you. That's when I got five battle stars. I was in every major section of battle that they had. I don't know how many -- I don't know how many more was lucky enough to do that, but I was. Like Normandy was a battle. Ardennes was a battle. Central France was one. There's five different ones. They are all on my discharge.
Now, tell me the -- so where were you -- where did you get out over there? Or did you stay over there for a while after the war?
Didn't stay long. Because I was back to the States. My ship landed July the 12th in New York Harbor, our division.
That would have been July the 12th of '45?
Right. Our division after the war was over was scattered in sections of different towns. And we were just watching things. And they pulled out everybody that had points above 60 out of the division and left them there and filled our divisions back with low points. Because we was going to come back to the States for eight weeks of basic training and go across on the other side. And I had 87 points total, but I didn't turn them in. I was going to. And the lieutenant said, Don't turn 'em in. I will let you in on a secret. He said, We are going home. All the low points are going home for training. So you are going to get 35 days off, eight weeks training, and then back. I said for 35 days I'd do anything. So I didn't turn them in until I was back to the States. Of course, by the time I reported back, the -- well, do you remember that last -- Durham, North Carolina, that's where I reported back after furlough. By the time I went back, the war was over; completely over. Because I didn't report back until August the 20th. And it was over on the 16th. So when I was there, I turned my other points back in, and that brought me up to 87. Had to have 85 to get a discharge. I was in the -- in the office and my first sergeant was there. And he said Nero, you want to go home for two weeks? I said, Yeah. Why? Can I? He said, Sure. Here. He give me a pass for two weeks. Of course, they pay you to go home and pay you to come back; transportation. So I went home for two weeks. Went back again. I was there two days. He said, Do you want to go back again? I said, What's going on? He said, You are on the list waiting to get discharged. Wouldn't you rather be home? I said, Yeah. So he kept sending me back and forth to October until I got discharged. So from August until October, all I done was gone back and forth home.
So then you went -- then you came back home and settled back down?
Went right back in the old job I had before. My boss was discharged before I was. And he had already opened up his little shop up in Seaford. And I went back to cabinet making. And I done that until maybe (20 MINUTES) -- until I got mad with him and that would have been 1950. Then I moved up to New Jersey. Went into construction work, carpenter work. Did that until 1954 and moved back to Laurel. Been there ever since.
What did you do for a trade then?
Same thing.
Carpentry?
Yep. Well, first I worked for a company. And then I went by myself in '65. And I done remodeling and kitchen cabinets, mostly kitchen cabinets. I was a good cabinet maker.
What are you doing now, sitting on the beach?
No. No. Staying home. Damn the beach. Too hot. Now, mostly what I am doing is fighting skin cancer, prostate cancer, and bone cancer. Got 'em all three. Ain't I lucky? My wife said the reason I got all three was to save her so she wouldn't get none. That's what she told me.
Are you still doing any cabinetry work?
No. I quit.
Nothing for yourself or --
Just a little bit of gardening. Right after I quit working, you know, a steady job, I had a house that had 2-3/4 acres of ground on it. Of course, that's the house and everything included. And I rented two acres. And from '6 -- no, from '85 until two years ago, or three, I think it is two years, I had three acres of gardening. Took care of it myself. Sold the produce right out front. That's what I did. I was raised on a farm, done farm work, and wound up doing the same thing.
What -- when you came into Germany, did you see all the destroyed cities? And how were you perceived by the Germans?
I told you, when we got that far, we couldn't even catch 'em. As far as the civilians to me, oh, they treat us good. We was cagey. I mean, we wouldn't take much chances. But they did, they treat us good. And as soon as I seen -- well, if you take a shell and crack it open and take everything out and laid the shells out, that's what the cities looked like. It was destroyed. I mean, Hamburg had an outside shell still there. Rest of it gone. And all the little towns, they just, shoo, you can't imagine. It is impossible to even to explain it. If you want to see actually what the war was like, I don't know if you seen it or not, but they got a picture of the Bulge. It is not a movie. It is, what do you call them?
A documentary?
A documentary. If you watch that, you will see the actual battles and soldiers and what happened to them. And in there -- it was funny, I told this to people that's asked me different things. I don't know how it was that it happened to me. Oh, yeah, I was -- we pulled back for a hot meal. And a mailman, the mail came in, and you get 'em maybe once a week if you were lucky. And I had a package. And I opened this package and I was sitting on a log, mud up to about that high on my boots. And I said, Man, I am going to have something good to eat. And God, I had needles, threads, pieces of material to patch my clothes with.
I didn't send that.
No. She didn't. She used to pack me something to eat and Pepsi Colas. That's what I asked for. And they'd come in in good shape. And one time eight of us drank a Pepsi Cola. They all took a sip. But can you -- can you imagine sending somebody in combat needles and thread? Buttons? (Laughter) Well, it was something. But this one thing I seen on the Battle of the Bulge, this one guy, he was -- I forgot just how he was telling me. But anyhow, this one he was telling me, the guy was asking like you are doing me. He said -- wanted to know how bad it was. And I said, Well, I will tell you how bad it was. I was digging a hole in the snow for the night. And I found a dead GI buried in it. I said, That's how bad it was. In fact, I have dug holes in snow many of times and wrapped up in one blanket and tried to sleep during the night. And get up the next morning and go right at it again. Of course, somebody has to stay guard all night watching, the patrols.
Did you think -- I mean, a lot of those times, I mean, were you thinking about the cold or thinking about getting shot? I mean --
Mostly getting shot. You don't worry about the cold.
But, I mean, like if you just sat -- if you just went out in the snow and hung, you are going to be cold and you are going to feel that way. But when you got something else to think about, were you thinking about the cold then or --
No. No. You don't know you are cold when you are in battle. You don't know nothing but one thing, save your neck. That's all you are thinking about.
Give me some words to pass on to the other generations. (25 MINUTES)
Like what?
What would you tell the other generations?
Tell the damn people in Washington that if they want a war to get in the damn pasture and fight the other people that's as high a rank as you are and battle the war out that way and leave the civilians alone. In other words, get the senators, the politicians in a big pasture and get the same folks from the other countries, get them in there and let them fight it out. And leave the rest of the people alone. They are the ones doing it. You know that. I mean, you take like Hitler and his gang. They are the ones doing it. Of course, the bunch over here, they will fight back. Well, put them all together and let them fight. Instead of thousands and thousands of us getting hit and killed. In my division alone -- I didn't bring that book -- there is a division book that came out after the war -- had 34,000 casualties, wounded and killed. Do you know how many people is one division? Can you guess?
A hundred.
A division?
Well, how big is a division?
A division has three regimens, three -- or no, they don't call them that.
____?
No, that's down below.
Battalions?
That's down below. One regimen had four battalions. Now, supply batallions and three companies does the fighting. And each division got three regimens. So you multiply them all together, you have got over 10,000 men to a division.
And you wiped out over 3-1/2 divisions, 34,000 men?
You mean casualties?
Yeah.
Right.
What do you -- when you hear the -- watch the news and hear about the -- what's going on over in Iraq, and what do they have there now killed, 1,800 over a year and a half, two years --
You want --
-- what does that make you think?
I am going to tell you the same thing I told my wife. Here's these damn people from over there. And I don't know what the reason that is for them. There's got to be a reason. Get rid of them, but don't think they are going to keep blowing us up over here like this fellow. They fuss about 2,800 people in two years, three years. How long we been there?
Two years.
2,800 people. Normandy had 5,000 dead when they hit the lines before that day was over. And they try to compare 2,800 against 5,000 in 24 hours. Now, if you don't do it there, they going to be here. Now, which is the best?
I like your answer.
Yeah. Get it over there.
Get the senators and representatives out in a field someplace with the other guys and let them fight it the hell out.
No. But actually, thinking about it the right way, now, do you want us to go there and keep them there to fight or let them come here and fight? Now, which is the best?
Who's the guy on 60 Minutes? Andy Rooney. Andy Rooney said something the other night about, which I think is true, and you have been probably reading about it and listened to them about it, is instead of spending billions and billions on all this fancy -- some of the fancy equipment, they need to put it back where the men are. Do you feel that we are sort of shortcutting the men and versus --
Um-hmm. But this is the way I look at it: Wasn't it better for us, World War II veterans, going there and kick the hell out of Hitler or have him come here and try to kick the hell out of us? Now, which is the best? And destroy our cities, kill our citizens, our women and kids.
Now, knowing what you know now sitting here, would you -- would you enlist again?
I didn't enlist.
No, but, I mean, what would you do now? Same thing?
If I was the same age and know what I know, I'd do the same as I have done. Exactly the same thing. I have told people many times, Look, it is either fight them over there or fight them over here. And I think I'd rather fight them over there.
All right.
My time is up. (END)