Encoded for the Experiencing War web site for the Veterans History Project.
The recording of the interview with Kermit Moore was digitized.
This transcription was encoded with minimal changes to the original text in an effort to preserve original content and idiosyncrasies of the person interviewed. Period language and terminology are also retained. Encoding is literal with regard to the transcriptionist's capitalization, punctuation, and spelling. Spelling errors are indicated with [sic]; however, recurring errors in spelling within a single document have been marked the first time and not subsequently.
Good morning. Today is November the 7th, 2007. My name is Andy Hornsby. I am today conducting an oral history interview in Montgomery, Alabama, with Kermit Moore, a veteran of World War II. Kermit, for the record, is my uncle. Kermit, tell me when you were drafted into the Army.
It was 1941, March about the 5th, I believe.
Where were you living?
I was living in Tallassee in Tallapoosa County. East Tallassee.
I believe you have told me that you were one of the first draftees drafted out of Tallapoosa County.
The first. Yes. Five of us from different towns. Dadeville and Alex City.
Now, I think you had been to the CCC camp to help prepare you for the military prior to going in.
Right. I did.
Tell me a little about your early days in the military. Where did you go for basic training? Where all did you go? And how did you end up going to Europe? Just tell that story.
I first -- We come to Pensacola. We met at Dadeville. We were put on a train. We went to Pensacola, Florida. From there we went to Camp Brandon, Florida. There we had our basic training. My job was to drive the commanding officers out of service for our battalion. That was the Dixie Division. So I was with them. We were there for a good while. Pulled maneuvers in Louisiana in 1942 and July we come back to Hattiesburg, Mississippi. Then they were going to have some people -- some replacements for the 9th Infantry Division. So a buddy of mine -- more than one, but the one close friend of mine from Andalusia, Charles Blow, we went to the 9th Infantry Division at Fort Bragg, North Carolina.
What was Charles's last name?
Charles Blow.
Blow?
B-l-o-w.
Is he still living?
No. He has died about four or five years ago. We were discharged and he came to visit me from Andalusia and I visited him. Then he enlisted and retired out of the service. Spent his life there.
I didn't mean to get off of the train of thought. I believe I failed to say that you turned 90 last March. I say that because you were in your early 20s. I think you were 22 when you were drafted.
Right. I was drafted the first of March. My birthday is the 26th of March. So that's --
Continue on about your training and how long before you headed into the actual combat.
We trained and done a lot of work at Camp Brandon, Florida. Had to fix trees, haul sawdust, a bunch of things. Grade grounds in Florida. My job was to drive the servicemen. He ordered all the service for my company. So I drove him and missed all the basic training. But they trained there in Florida. The Dixie Division and there is Yankee Division. Both was down there. And what we call the Yankee division, I believe it was the 42nd Division. Time and memory has passed.
How did you go to get to the 9th Division? I believe you and Charles Blow from Andalusia signed up to go to the 9th Infantry Division.
After the maneuvers in the Dixie Division we were at Hattiesburg. Come off of maneuvers. We were out there seven days on maneuvers. Then they had this call for the 9th Infantry Division. He and I were buddies. There was more than just us two volunteered. So we went to the 9th Infantry Division in Fort Sill, Oklahoma, and went to the 34th Field Artillery with Commander and Lieutenant Colonel Westmoreland. That's where -- There to reembark from New York City. Went to Fort Dix from New York City. Went to French North Africa. We went in in '42 right outside of Casablanca, Africa.
Let me back you up a moment. You mentioned you met up with William Westmoreland in Fort Sill, Oklahoma?
That's were it was, Fort Sill, Oklahoma.
Now, he is, of course, a famous General Westmoreland who later became Joint Chief Chairman and Joint Chiefs of Staff and I think the National Security Advisor and was a commander in Vietnam?
That's right.
What was his rank when you first met him?
Lieutenant Colonel. I have drove him some in -- I wasn't his regular driver, but I drove him on reconnaissance and such as that looking for gun position in North Africa when we would move up.
So you actually drove him some in a Jeep?
Jeep. Right. Him and that radio operator.
What kind of fellow was he?
He was one of the nicest men as far as I want to know. He never done nothing he asked you to do anything he wouldn't do. Before we left Fort Bragg we had a five-mile run before breakfast. He led. So after invading in '42 in November we were there for Thanksgiving. Unloading a British ship. We didn't have no food. What we come with from America was guns and ammunition such as that and trucks. So we ate from the British. We were unloading the British ship there after we got in and got established. So Westmoreland -- We were eating the rations from British. Nobody liked tea and hard tacks, but that's what we were eating. The Captain Brown from B Battery told Colonel Westmoreland, says, "We got an invitation on the ship to eat turkey tomorrow." He said, "Well, good. Have you got enough for my men?" He said, "No, just his officer." He said, "I better not catch an officer on that ship eating turkey Christmas. He will be in the line with us eating sea rations or British rations."
So General Westmoreland, then Lieutenant Colonel Westmoreland, turned down an opportunity to have a Christmas dinner of turkey and all the trimmings, I assume, because they didn't have enough for his men?
Yes. That's right. He wasn't married at that time. He was about two years older than I am. He would be about 92 or 93 years old. He died about two year ago, I believe. He is from South Carolina.
Yes, sir. I remember, of course, General Westmoreland. You left Fort Sill and went to New York before you embarked on. Tell me about how you ended up in the war in combat from there.
From Fort Bragg embarked from New York Harbor therewith. The 9th Infantry did. They didn't tell us our destination, just we know we were going to get in combat. We were going somewhere. So just before we landed we were give a pamphlet with headquarters in North Africa. General Mark Clark had already got in there on a submarine, had things established what we were to do and where each company would go in at. So we went in. So that's --
Did Westmoreland go over with your group?
Yes. Yes. Sure. He come down.
Of course, General Clark is the famous General Mark Clark who was close to Eisenhower?
Him and his staff went over and went in Africa -- French Africa. French Morocco. I will get it right directly. It wasn't about three days. We were ordered the combat was there. Tunisia is where we done the fighting in North Africa, Rommel and General Montgomery.
The Germans were there?
They just had a few for nothing to keep the French. Most of them were Free French, what they call the Free Fighting French. They were the ones that were against the Germans. They helped us get in there. So it didn't last but a few days. While we were there President Roosevelt and Stalin and Churchill met with a conference there. We were there when they were there. The captain that was over me was guard, a security guard there. We got to see them but not close up. No conversation.
Well, that's commendable. That is the famous picture of Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin in the summit near Casablanca that I think is in all our history books. Did you see them? Were you able to see that?
Yes. There was a little town -- Well, it was the captain of French Morocco where they met at Robec. We were right there in Casablanca.
So Tunisia you saw your first combat.
Yes.
Do you remember your first encounter with Germans in combat? Of course, you were in artillery, I know. But tell me about that.
We had to go up in Tunisia. It was a 770-mile-force march. That is what we drove day and night until we got there. Went in combat. I forget the name of the place.
That's okay.
The next day the captain -- after we went in that night and went in gun possession firing they sent -- well, I will tell this. Sent me back to a water pump. We didn't have no water to pick up cans of water, a truckload of water. As I was coming back out from the water point, the Russian -- German stucadiva (ph) was straight. There was a British position there, gun position and aircraft guns. So I seen them coming and shooting. I jumped in and stopped. Didn't even turn the switch on. Jumped in a ditch. The British shot the planes down. One of the planes two guys parachuted out. So they killed them. I said, well -- First they told me, "Come on out." I could see it. I said, "You didn't have to kill them." He said, "Was you in the Blitz in London?" I said, "Well said." I didn't have nothing else to say.
So you saw the British -- the Germans were strafing the road that you were driving on?
Right.
Was it several of the vehicles or were you by yourself?
I was by myself. The trailer with a load of five-gallon cans full of water.
Did you get the water back?
Yes. Finally.
So did you see the British shoot the Germans?
Yes. They shot the two planes down. Out of one of the planes a pilot and a co-pilot I guess what they were, they come out. They shot them before they hit the ground.
Okay. The British response was you weren't in the Blitz of London. So they didn't take prisoners that night then, did they?
Right. No. Not at all.
That was your first encounter --
That is the first combat we seen.
The first combat where you saw yourself in a dangerous situation?
Yes.
Well, that's interesting. That's good. Now, that was all in North Africa and French Morocco. Did you say you did a 700-mile march?
That's right.
You were in vehicles and marching?
We saw vehicles. We drove 700 miles that day, 770 miles actually to go in gun position.
Yes. Okay. Continue on. Where did you go from there?
All the way on down to the real -- Kasserine Pass where we had a hard time.
What country is the Kasserine Pass in?
It is in Tunisia.
Tunisia?
Tunisia and French Morocco and Algiers.
Now, I always heard about Patton in North Africa too.
That is where he got his command. There was a gentleman at there at Kasserine Pass -- we was stuck there. They pushed us out. Then Eisenhower to him. I forgot. It is probably in one of these pamphlets. Put Patton in charge of the tank -- tanks division. Tank Army. So the next day we moved out of there and had taken the pass. We were trying to cut the Germans off where Montgomery and the British was fighting. We were going in the --
General Montgomery was fighting nearby there?
Yes. They were down farther in -- down in the desert in Rommel and all them.
What do you remember about that big battle at the Pass?
Well, it was cold and raining in March. I had I believe my 23rd birthday there. It was a lot went on.
That was in '42?
Yes. And they had air supremacy then. They had the stucas (ph) and I forget some of the others. We got -- They were bombed. We were bombed and shelled a lot. They had better equipment and more of them. But I learned then when a piece of shrapnel is lying by from a bomb don't touch it because it might be red hot or white hot.
You learned that probably the hard way some of the soldiers did.
Yes.
The Pass, the Kasserine Pass --
The Kasserine Pass, that was one of the most battles there.
Where did you go after Tunisia?
We invaded Sicily. We went -- We captured all them Germans in Berserdy (ph) there. They couldn't get -- They were leaving the ships. We shelled them. The airplanes would bomb them. So we had them surrounded. They couldn't get out. They drove their own trucks coming back. We made them come out that way. They drove by the thousands. I don't know how many were taken prisoner.
Y'all took thousands of prisoners right there?
Right there.
So you saw --
All they left of the Army. We went back down this side of Oran there, the big city. City we were close to. The Foreign Legion Headquarters. That's where we stayed until we went into Sicily.
How was that staying at the Foreign Legion Headquarters? That was probably nicer than where you had been.
There was all kind of people there. We won't talk about a lot of them.
I want to hear. Those are the stories that -- Well, obviously there were women there.
It wasn't really what I had in mind. My captain at that time I was driving, he was Captain Barefoot. He was an Indian off an Oklahoma reservation. A nice fellow. But the Indians didn't know how to drink whiskey. But he thought a lot of me and really was nice to me. Captain. So he got tangled up with drinking at the bars. Some of the lieutenants and officers would call me. I would come get him. I would say it is time to go home. He never give no trouble. He sent war bonds home to my mother while I was in the service and I didn't know nothing about it. 50 dollar war bonds and sent it home, said this is for Kermit.
This Indian captain that was your captain sent your mother, my grandmother, war bonds during the war?
Sent to me. He was an Indian. If he liked you, I guarantee you they were for you.
You told me once about stealing his whiskey.
Uh-huh.
Go ahead and tell that story if you would, please.
We crossed the Remagen bridge or the Remagen bridge. The officers got a supply of whiskey. We were lucky to get a little Cognac along, the people that dranked. So we crossed the Remagen bridge and went around and was in gun position. The mail carrier and some of the others that brought up our mail said, "Kermit, you got anything left to drink?" I had had a five-gallon water can. I had gotten Cognac. It come all the way through France. The officers got it. He was in the trailer. We drank out of it and poured water in it. But they didn't have to drink it. They were getting whiskey rations from the United States from home.
So you would add water back as y'all would come consume some of the Cognac out of this five-gallon can so they wouldn't miss it. Just watering it down for them.
We dranked all of it. I throwed the can away. He hadn't missed it. We didn't have nothing to drank after we got across the Remagen bridge. So he had a lock on it. It was about eight quarts of whiskey. So just took the box and got up there and knocked the lock off of it. We done away with the whiskey. Of course, he didn't think I dranked and I never let him smell it on my breath. He was a good fellow. Just a few days later he was made major and in charge of the town we had taken over there. That's where he left me. Of course, Westmoreland had done gone. He had done stopped by. Lieutenant Colonel Sutherlands, one of his classmates --
At West Point?
West Point then. He asked me would I be his driver. So I drove him to finish the war.
Now, that bridge, there was some fierce fighting at that bridge, wasn't there?
Not too bad. There was some fighting, sure, going on. Got in on the Germans before they blew it up. We went across there. After they was taking it. In fact, we went back that night after we were across. We were low on ammunition. There was about six trucks went back after artillery, after the ammunition for our guns. About six loads of it. About three days or four days later the bridge fell, you know. So --
You were lucky to get across. Now, from there where did you head? You started talking about invading Sicily. That's where we stopped and got off track a little. Let's go back to Sicily.
We got ahead of ourselves. Since we come to England there we trained. It wasn't too far from London. We would have passes in London. Winchester where the round table was. Back in history we study in school about the round tables.
The knights of the round table. Yes.
The knights of the round table.
So you went to England to train?
Yes. __________ our vehicles. We got in there in the last of November of -- what year?
'43? No. The invasion wasn't until later. I want to -- You are back at Sicily. I wanted you to finish on Sicily.
Well, in Sicily it didn't take too long. Of course, we had it under control and had taken it. We were in a little town outside of Palermo. After there was the staging area waiting to ship out of there. A lot of sights. The guy that writes the little newsletter, he and our captain and there is three other officers, I drove him up to the town you could look right across and see Italy. Sicily is just the toe of the boot. You could see over there. I spent them weekends. When I got his newsletter -- He had gotten my address. So I called this Captain Brum who he was who writes these. Keeping in touch with one another. Extracts out of what people had to say. So I called him and told him who I was. He could remember us going up spending the weekend there. I was driving him.
So you were up there. Obviously, you met the Italian people, got good food, bought a little wine.
They had different things. It was an ideal country, a good climate and everything. All kind of fruits and bananas and so forth.
So you did pretty good there?
Yes. It wasn't --
The Germans didn't give you much resistance in Sicily?
No. So we come back to England.
You were telling us you left there and went to England from Sicily?
Yes. We landed at Liverpool, England, and came to Winchester and Hanover between the two towns that had barracks. My job there was the officers had a quarter to themselves. We had barracks. I was in charge of the officer's quarters. I could get more leave than the rest of them could. I was fortunate that way.
Pretty good job then?
Pretty good job. Spent a lot of time in London.
Okay. What was that like? What would you do in London?
There's all kind of entertainments there. You could have dances for the soldiers. Glen Gray and his officers, they had a revolving something -- a country boy had never seen a revolving stage. One orchestra would go off and another would come on. It was real nice. Of course, they had the Blitz over there. The buzz bomb was coming over pretty regular too then.
The Germans were bombing London while you were there?
Yes.
How long were you in England during this period?
We were there from -- Got there the day before Thanksgiving in November, I believe. We stayed there until we went into Normandy, which was in June, I believe. June the 6th when the first wave went in.
Tell me about landing at Normandy.
Well, we could get -- I was artillery. We didn't get in until about the second or third day. I don't remember. But things were -- battleships were firing. The LSTs like we were on you let the front end down and you drove your vehicle off. The foots of the infantry went off walking. But we were out behind them. Couldn't see exactly what was going on except shelling and bombing.
Which beach? Weren't there different beaches that you --
Yes. We went in on -- I can't think of it. 90 years old. I can't think.
That's okay. Omaha Beach was a famous one.
What is that other one?
We will come up with it in a moment.
Omaha and another one there.
Landing at Normandy, just spend a little time on that. What did you drive off of that LST?
I drove a Jeep and Major Barefoot.
Your Indian commander?
We went in there. There was still people -- They was still some of the paratroopers hanging in trees. Some still in the gliders that didn't make it. We spearheaded that, the 9th Infantry Division did.
You saw fellow American soldiers dead.
Yes. That is demoralizing. They tried to get them up as fast as you could even in combat. The enemy didn't matter, but it did -- it wasn't a good morale builder to see an American soldier dead. We were to cut off at Cherbourg Peninsula. That is what we did. We had good luck going through there. The other -- taken the Cherbourg Peninsula and got some ships. The admirals, they could get away. From there then really the next big battle was St. Lo, France. Up through there.
Back on Normandy, the infantry went in first and secured the beach head so you could come in with the artillery and they had -- you went in and the second or third day or somewhere along that and you drove a Jeep in, but all the artillery came in and you moved on out?
Yes.
And you saw the devastation of Normandy, though?
Oh, yes.
Paratroopers --
Like I say, there were trees where the paratroopers, a lot of the 82nd Airborne and all the others were still some of them that didn't make it to the ground in groves and hand gliders -- gliders turned aloose and didn't land where they should. But the infantry secured that. They are the ones that secured the beaches.
A tremendous loss of life at Normandy.
Awful. I forgot now how many thousands were lost there on that beach.
You mentioned you got up and had a major fight, a major battle not far north of there. I guess you were headed north. Go on about your fighting through France.
Well, St. Lo is one of the worst. I know you want time.
No.
Having a time taking this town. We had an awful time. So they called in a bunch of the planes. They started coming in waves. We fired our bombs, our shells into where we wanted the Air Force to drop their bombs, shell them and just strafe them. They kept coming in such waves, the airplanes, that soon the air got where it was nothing but smoke and dust, you know. They didn't know exactly where they were dropping their bombs. So we lost a few -- Got back in on the fire you might say. They got back. We lost several vehicles, but we didn't lose any of our battalion there. We had to get back where they wouldn't hit us until it cleared later on. So that was --
Was that the worst fight -- Well, we will get to the Battle of the Bulge shortly. Was that the worst fighting you had experienced to date?
Yes. That was one of the battles that was real hard. That was one of the hardest battles right there. Went on up as far as -- We bypassed Paris. But some of the boys went in there. We went around Paris and on up through Belgium. There is a lot of contact through Belgium on up to the Siegfried Line. They stalled a while. A town right across the Siegfried Line where we started to take it, it was tore up so bad after we finally took it you couldn't get through unless they had the engineers and such as that cleared us a way where we could get through the town. That's the first of the --
How long were you in France?
I don't know.
You don't remember. But you skirted Paris, but --
We were right there at Paris. We didn't want to tear it up or nothing. The Germans left it. There wouldn't be no firing there. Of course, they had to pull out.
So there was a deliberate decision not to damage Paris as much as you could and the Germans cooperated with that too?
Yes. They got out of there then.
They pulled back?
We agreed not to shell it and tear it up like they did with the other towns in Germany and the strongholds that the Germans had.
One time I remember you said about taking souvenirs that your officer told you and the men not to take souvenirs in France, but when you got to Germany, you could take what you wanted.
Let's see now. Yes. It would be called -- In Africa we killed a cow and were going to eat it. We really got in trouble with that. So Colonel Westmoreland told us these people we are going to have to feed them. Don't take nothing they eat. The company paid and reimbursed the Arabs for the French there for the --
Were you in on the killing of the cow?
No. Uh-uh. Just eating on that.
Did y'all actually cook the cow and eat it?
Yes.
Barbecued it?
You can imagine a bunch of soldiers, vultures. Anyhow, in France Colonel Westmoreland and I were dressing chickens in a chicken house. We weren't supposed to bother none of that stuff. Wouldn't turn down being a Southern boy to have fried chicken. So I was dressing I think it was 12 chickens. Some of them was young and some was old. I could feel somebody watching me. I just looked up like that and it was Colonel Westmoreland. I let on like I didn't see him. He just turned around and left. Didn't say nothing to me.
He let you --
Some interesting things.
That is interesting.
It is not all shooting all the time. That is what I like to remember, things like that. The other part I don't care to. I like to remember such things as that.
We want to cover a little of everything and get as much as we can. You made it through France. Did you go from France to Belgium?
Yes. Went through Belgium.
Where was the Battle of the Bulge?
It is part -- Part of it was in Belgium. Belgium. The forest --
You didn't know where the lines, what country you were in or not, you know, there in Belgium.
Tell me about your memory of the Battle of the Bulge.
The first of it my outfit was fixing to take a little old town called Rennes. We were to go in the next morning. That's where I saw a big -- the biggest dog fight between the American and the Germans' planes there. Just about dark got word that the Russian -- the Germans had broke through on the lines. They said prepare to march out now. We pulled out then. Didn't get started -- got down to the gun position until late the next evening. Went in the gun position that evening. Of course, it was snow and everything else down there then.
That was the cold weather then?
Yes. Uh-huh.
The famous Battle of the Bulge was terribly cold.
Yes. The snow some of it was knee deep to ankle deep or whatever. Yes. We went in there. It wasn't all -- It wasn't too long they dropped a few paratroopers in on us. We cleared them out.
German paratroopers?
Yes. Come in. I didn't see any of them. That was artillery. I remember there is a Captain Wilkes that was a doctor with our battalion. He pitched his tent just on a hedge row just out of the side of our gun position where I was at. Me and Blow had our tent too close to there. Got a hit down there on one of the guns, artillery. Captain hollered medics. Captain Wilkes went down there. Two of them were killed, two of the gun crew. Some of them were wounded seriously, legs shot off. Some friends of ours, soldiers. When Dr. Wilkes came back up there, he says, "Where is my tent, Moore?" I said, "Right there on the hedge row." He says, "I don't see nothing." The next day there was clothes in the bushes above his head there. He got a direct hit on his tent while he was tending to some others. He said, "Well, we lost those. If I hadn't gone, I would have been gone." That was during the Battle of the Bulge.
The fact that he went to attend to the wounded saved his life?
Saved his life.
That was pretty close to where you were.
Yes. Well, just a few yards. Like things that happened.
How long before you were able to break out there?
I don't remember -- it wasn't -- how long I was lasted.
Where did you go from Belgium?
We had taken the town Aachen, Germany, right across the Seigfried line. We had to go where they had the -- All the way around Germany there they had a Seigfried line. A cement post.
Seigfried line is German -- means you are going into German territory?
Around the Germany borders they had staggered cement concrete posts like that. How deep they had them where you couldn't drive nothing through. When they put them there they thought nothing could beat them. We had things to blast them out and would make us get through there, the engineers did. We were there a good while, the town of Aachen, it was a pretty good size town. It took us a while to take it. We liberated some labor camps, prisoners of war and labor camps. In Vienenburg, Germany, one of the largest camps we ever -- we were the first ones there. It was a lot of Polloks and things there. They were hungry. They began to show us where -- things they wanted. We didn't understand them. We shot a lock off of a warehouse and it was full of sugar. These Polloks, even women were toting them 100-pound bags of sugar and did anything they could.
You saw then -- When you liberated the labor camps, you saw then the results of Germans who had used forced labor?
Forced labor.
Did you see any of the Jewish folks that had been interred?
Yes. Some of them were more Jews than others. There wasn't that many Jews. You didn't see many of them. I don't know what they done -- Well, we know what they done with them too. A lot of them was Polloks they had been there so long, Polish and French too. There was a lot of people.
Were they thin?
Some of them was and some of them -- if they got good work, they were pretty well taken care of. Some others we run into -- We run in on one on reconnaissance. There wasn't many Germans there. So when we opened up fire, they surrendered. They just were small armed fire. They surrendered. There were some pretty thin at that one because there weren't hundreds like there was at Vienenburg, Germany.
Did you have any interaction with other German soldiers? Did you ever get where you could find any that could speak English where you could talk to at all or any prisoners?
We didn't in combat. They let some of the young come back while we were waiting overseas to come back home. Stationed in a place called Pfaffenhofen not far from Munich. Waited to come back home. One particular chance waiting for us we had been out there. The Germans were real nice, clean. They washed the sidewalks every morning, the women and all that. We had been out for a good little while, four, five, six weeks. Might not use the right kind of language. Anyhow, about _______ and Hitler. A German woman spoke up. Says, "We thought Hitler" -- with better English than I spoke -- "was like Roosevelt. He got us out of -- give jobs. We didn't know he was trying to conquer the world." She said, "We hate him as much as you do." It would surprise us sometimes that you would run into people that would speak like that.
How about Russians? You ever encounter any of the Russian troops?
We met the Russians on the Ebb River. That was as far as we could go in Germany there. We got there a few days before the Russians did because this is always mapped out back in Robec and French North Africa. We waited for them. The Germans wanted to come across that river and let us take them. The colonel -- Our officer told us make them go back because we will have to feed them. They would hate to go back, but we would send them back to be taken by the Russians.
Now, where in Ahlden, Germany -- You were into Germany now. This is on up in '44 maybe?
Yes. It wasn't long until it was over. After the Battle of the Bulge, we knew it wouldn't last long. It was moving fast. We knowed it wasn't going to be long before this war was going to be over.
Where did you go from Germany?
Germany I come to Paris and stayed there a while.
Let me back up for a moment before we -- I want to hear about Paris and what happened there. You are almost at the end of your war period. Tell me the story about the time you came face to face with a German soldier. Where was that? Just tell that story.
You know, the Germans, I was fortunate I figured to go to European theater of war. They valued life like we did, you know. So no suicide bombing or such as that, you know. So we were laying wire to the OP in France.
That is the observation post?
Yes. Observation post. OP where you would direct artillery fire back to the headquarters. We were laying the wire up from there from the headquarters up to the OP where we could call fire missions in. So throwing the wire off the edge of the road up on -- keeping half tracks and tank from ruining our communication and raised up across that hedge there and a German raised up. Well, I guess I was frightened more than he was because he run.
So you came face to face -- When you popped your heads up on the hedge row, you came face to face, but he blinked first and ran?
Yes. The buddy there, Henry Gordon -- Hank I called him. I said, "Hank, why didn't you kill him?" He said, "I didn't know I had a gun at the time."
So he got away, but that didn't bother you, did it?
No. A lot of funny things happened like that. Something to laugh about later.
Now, in Belgium you told me once about a souvenir you took that I believe you may still have. Tell me that story.
We were in Belgium right -- before going into Germany, I guess. We were out -- taken us a little village. They lived in villages and farmed outside most of them did. I went around this house. We take up arms. I met a guy, a German. I don't know whether German or Belgium. He had a double barrel shotgun on his shoulder. I just held out my hand. He gave it to me. It is a unique gun. I have still got it. We had that. In Vienenburg I went in the hardware store and I found another gun, a double barrel. So I shipped them home then. I kept them. Because you had to have them censored. Barefoot says, "Kermit, what is in this box I am censoring?" I said, "Just sign it and I will ship it out." He just laughed and okayed my guns.
They got home safely?
They still got home.
I know you still have one.
The double barrel with hammers on it, it is an old gun, but it is just like new to look at it. It is well taken care of for a farmer. I felt kind of sad about it now when I think about it. I know how I appreciate a good gun. I know he hated to give it up.
A great story. Talk about Paris. The liberation of Paris, is that --
It is like I say. We didn't go in there when we went up. But I come back there. When we left Pfaffenhofen, Germany, people that had enough points, 85 points or more, got to come home. I had 100 -- I had 140 something points. So they assigned us another battalion from Pfaffenhofen to come to Paris to ship us in case we trained at Paris. We convoyed from outside of Munich to Paris. This convoy -- The guides that we came with was coming back to catch a boat to get ready to go to Japan. We got there and was there about -- We were there a good while. It was fun to start with. We stayed there about three weeks. A lot of entertainment in Paris. So we stayed there probably five weeks. We couldn't get out. We were still with that battalion. So I didn't go. But some of the other boys, about four of them, went to Sain Base headquarters. It was German. He had a Major Seay down there. He said, "What can I do for you," is what he told the boys. They told him, "We are stuck in Paris. We had anywhere from 100 to 140 points." He said, "No. All them are gone home." We said, "No, we ain't." He wanted us to name the battles. He said, "Wait a minute. The general wants to see y'all." So he carried the boys to the lunch. When the general come back, he told the -- they told the story to him, said this colonel wouldn't let us go, wouldn't put us on the train to Lahore. That is where we are shipping out from. So he says, "Go back to your camp, don't say nothing. I will be there in the morning." I woke up. Whistles were blowing. Everything was going. So this general got out. What he told that colonel I don't know. I don't know what he done with it. But that afternoon we caught a train to Lahore to catch a boat to come home.
Well, that is a great story. I want to back up just a little bit about on Paris. You said there was entertainment there. I assume good food and clubs.
Yes.
Tell me a little about your time in Paris.
All the sidewalk cafes and nightclubs. All kind of entertainment. We enjoyed our stay very much there. For the first week or two it did. But this colonel, he tried to make us work, but we wouldn't do nothing. We wouldn't pay him any attention. There is a recapping plant there. The Americans had German soldiers, prisoners running it. He wanted us to guard. We wouldn't guard it.
You had been through enough fighting in battles that you were done, weren't you?
He couldn't say nothing. He was wanting to stay with us to keep us as long as we can to keep him out of there. But while we were there the war ended in Japan as well as y'all know then. That was the time then. So they didn't have to go either. But we got home that day after the general paid him a visit.
Tell me about coming home, how that worked out.
We come on a Liberty ship. It was pretty well loaded with people there. A lot of them got seasick. There was a couple of guys got seasick that looked like they were going to die. You know, when you are seasick you don't want no food or nothing, no piece of greasy meat. That just -- We would catch a man who was seasick and go down and have a meat skin or something or another. It would do them in. We had a lot of things. Most of them were a lot of the boys played cards and this, that. I forgot now. 13 days I believe we were coming home.
You were happy the war was over. You had been away almost three years, if I remember right.
From last of August to November -- first of September.
When you got back, did you land in New York?
We landed in Boston. From Boston they give us a good meal. Had entertainment. The next day we caught the train to Atlanta, Georgia. Pulled by two engines. It didn't stop nowhere. Just come through. Every town would come through there they knew the troop train was coming through there carrying boys home.
So you took a train from Boston to Atlanta. As you would go through towns, citizens would come out to greet the troop train?
Yeah.
That was nice, I am sure.
It sure was, the people there.
Did you communicate with your family much? Did you get mail -- much mail?
Yes. During the combat sometimes we wouldn't get as much mail as we would like. We had V mail then what it is called. They made a picture of it and sent it home. I tried to write home at least two or three times a month, maybe more often than that if I had the time.
Did your family know you were coming home?
Yes. They knew it was over. I was on the way. But they didn't know what day we was coming. We didn't know.
When you got to Atlanta, what happened?
Well, Atlanta, they tried to -- We got to Fort McClellan. They were taking an examination. I had had some trouble. They were going to put me in the hospital. I said, "No, I am going home."
Stomach trouble, I believe?
Yes. So I came on home. But I was home about a week before my stomach -- an ulcer eat a hole through my stomach. I had a sickness there for a while. Other than that, everything went pretty good for a while.
Did you stay in touch with some of your fellow soldiers after the war?
Yes. This fellow Blow that I was with from Andalusia, we had a lot of friends. I would go down and visit him in Andalusia. He had paid me a visit too.
You had mentioned that. Did you ever go to any of the reunions?
No. I didn't get to go to them. General Westmoreland come to Montgomery and was a speaker here. I was invited, but I had a cabin on the lake and we had a lot of company for that Fourth of July. So I didn't get to come to see him because he was -- come down to Montgomery to make a speech. He was here a couple of days in Montgomery, I think.
Looking back on your wartime experiences, do you think you were a better man for having done it?
Well, that made us grow up quicker, yes. I appreciated life better after seeing how blessed we were able to get back home knowing you lost so many people. A division is about 45 or 47,000 soldiers, a complete division. We had 90,000 replacements.
So that big a turnover due to wounds and killed.
Killed, lost in action.
That's a great story. We appreciate you sharing it with us today. Anything else you would like to tell? Any other stories in wrapping up?
Well, I am sure that all like me this is the greatest country a person would ever want to live in. American people. It is worth fighting for. Of course, there are others that didn't get back. It is different with them.
Have you ever thought you would like to go back to Normandy?
No. I never did have a desire. My son and his wife asked me about years ago would I like to go and take their son Tommy. He was about 10 years old. I said I don't want to go, I have had enough.
Thank you very much.
I appreciate it. Thank you.