Encoded for the Experiencing War web site for the Veterans History Project.
The recording of the interview with Charles P. Murray, Jr. was digitized.
This transcription was encoded with minimal changes to the original text in an effort to preserve original content and idiosyncrasies of the person interviewed. Period language and terminology are also retained. Encoding is literal with regard to the transcriptionist's capitalization, punctuation, and spelling. Spelling errors are indicated with [sic]; however, recurring errors in spelling within a single document have been marked the first time and not subsequently.
[ ? ] state your name and [ ? ]
My name is Charles Murray, Jr. And I'm currently [ ? ] United States Army--Commander of the Army [?]-- [VOLUME UP] --in 1942 and served in Europe during World War II and in Korea after the fighting and also in Vietnam.
Okay. Would you tell me where you grew up, where you were born?
I was born in Baltimore, Maryland, but my parents moved to North Carolina in the Wilmington area before I was a year old. And I grew up and went to school in North Carolina, attended the University of North Carolina.
I understand you attended there for about three years, and then decided to go into the--Army?
I was a junior at University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill at Pearl Harbor Day. And I finished my junior year and then came into the Army in 1942, that September, and stayed in for almost 31 years.
What made you decide to go into the Army?
I was actually invited into the Army by my friends and neighbors through a telegram. And I was inducted, or as they say, drafted into the military, as so many millions were during World War II.
Okay. Now, where did you go to basic training?
I went to basic training at--Mineral Wells, Texas at what they called Camp Walters at that time. And, in fact, I was married in Mineral Wells.
Very nice. And did you do any special training after basic?
After basic and infantry advanced training I went to a non-commissioned officers' school there at Camp Walters, and then in January of 1943 went to Fort Benning, Georgia to begin officer candidate school, and graduated, was made second lieutenant in April of 1943, about seven months after I entered the Army.
That's quite an accomplishment. Now, tell me when were you sent over to Europe?
Well, after finishing OCS I was sent to some training centers in Arkansas primarily, and then--that September of 1943 I went through the replacement system at Ft. Mead, Maryland, and they retained me there for--almost a year. I was training troops at Ft. Mead until August of 1944, then went overseas.
And did you feel at that time, did you feel like you wanted to--get over to Europe quickly to help the effort?
I had no real feelings about going over at that time, or any hurt because I wasn't shipped over. I was busily involved in teaching village fighting and other combat training to people who were going. And I knew my time would be coming.
Okay, so then--so then you're--sent over. Where, where did you--were you first based in Europe?
In August of 1944 I was shipped to England, stayed there two or three weeks and then into France, actually over the--cliffs at Normandy but sometime later, later after the fighting was completed. And in France I joined the 3rd Infantry Division. The 3rd Division had left California in 1942, landed in North Africa, fought there in Sicily and Southern Italy and Anzio [?]. And then they landed in southern France after their fifth amphibious operation. And that's where I joined.
Okay. Now, when you--joined them do you remember your first action?
Very well.
Well, tell me a little about that. [OVERTALK]
After, after my--I joined it's--the 3rd Division I was assigned to 30th Infantry, one of the three regiments and to C Company and was to stay in C Company for the rest of the war. At the time I joined they were on the defensive operation near the town of Itholi [?], a little small town in France. And then we moved from there after a couple of days and headed toward the Rhine through the Voges Mountains, headed toward Strasbourg, France. I was initially a rifle platoon leader. And after about three w--weeks, I was made the company executive officer, the second in command. And then on the 8th of December of that year I was made Company Commander. And except for times in the hospital I--was Commander of that company the rest of the war. During the time I was commanding we finished fighting in France, and entered Germany, across Germany and ended the war in Austria.
And did you feel--when you--you met your first contact, did you feel like you were--you were trained properly for it.
I was well trained. I had trained other troops. I had not actually led platoons in any--advanced training like in a regular unit would do. But I knew I could shoot. I knew I knew all the weapons and all the ammunition that was being used. And I knew I was well, well trained. I'd shot thousands and thousands of rounds of ammunition and taught other people to do that, combat training. I thought--I had some appre--apprehension, of course, is all; everybody does. But I thought I was well trained and did my job, I think, pretty well. [OFF-MIKE COMMENTS] [END TAPE 28, SIDE A] CONTINUATION OF INTERVIEW WITH CHARLES MURRAY [OFF-MIKE COMMENTS]
So you're now moving up through France. And you were cited for the Medal of Honor. Tell me about the--the events that led up to the action that you were cited for.
Well, the 3rd Division, after I joined them and moved east toward Germany, they went through the Voges Mountains which I understand the first time in history that a combat unit had gone through the Voges Mountains during winter. And we ended at Strasbourg, France right on the Rhine. That was the end of November of 1944. Just a few weeks later we were ordered south to join the 1st French Army. They were having difficulties with German and the bridgehead in France, along that portion of the Rhine River. And my regiment, the regiment I was in was the first to go down, and we went down on the 14th of December, starting fighting the next day. And the third morning is when I had my action--that led to the Medal of Honor. Our battalion was in reserve initially and during the early morning hours of the 16th of December, which was the Bulge Day, [?] by the way, for those who are familiar with the fighting up north. On that morning we crossed the footbridge built by the engineers in the edge of the little town of--Kaisersburg [?] and went into the hills, went into the p--defensive position, our battalion did. But our other battalions were fighting in the town. And I had one more--job to do after getting on the hill, was to send one platoon down into the v--next valley to establish a position to keep the Germans from--getting in or out of that valley. And that's--and I decided to go along with that platoon, and that's when the action started.
I see. Now, according to your citation you started down and spotted a large group of, of Germans, is that correct?
After we got into the defensive positions on the hill, I put two of my platoons into positions. And while those platoons were digging and getting prepared in their positions, the third platoon was just to go down to the bottom of the hill to put in the position. And I decided to go along with that platoon because that was a critical spot at that time. The approach to the bottom of the hill, through grapevines, by the way, was down a narrow mountain trail about two--two feet wide and a lot of rocks. You'd go single file. You had to down the trail. And as we started down we had two scouts, two men out in front of us, about 100 yards to be sure we weren't surprised. And after just a short time down that little mountain trail the first scout stopped, called me forward, and pointed out at the bottom of the hill about two thou--about 200 German position--German in position. Now, they--I didn't know 200. I saw a group of German, I didn't count. But they were getting into position, apparently, to start back up the hill at one of our--toward one of our other units on the hill. And I was right on their side, on their end, like you were looking down a--a--from the end zone on the football field. I was looking right down the end zone at 'em. And they were starting up the other way. And I started to--do some action to--get rid of 'em. The first thing that came to mind, we didn't have any air--was artillery target. There was a big group of Germans, and spread out, about a half a block long and a sunken road. And I called for artillery fire. The first round came in very rapidly. And it was off target a couple of hundred yards. And I adjusted and fired another round, and that round was close. And I was prepared to tell them, I guess, to fire for effect, to fire another spotting round. And my battery in my radio went dead, at least the radio went dead. And I knew--it was the batteries because it was like two flashlight batteries and a walkie talkie, and it was cold, snowing, had been snowing. And the batteries froze and the--weakened. And the radio just went dead. So I sent somebody, one of the troops up hill to get one of my mortars. And while they were going up the hill, I knew something had to be done. So I borrowed a--rifle with a grenade attachment on it. It was a--regular rifle that shot blank rounds, but on the end of it there was an attachment to put grenades, in our case, anti-tank grenades and fire 'em about two, three hundred yards. And I tried one and it worked. And then I got the rest of the rounds, about 10 or 12 or 14 from the platoon and fired those. And still nothing from--above, no help, no new radio, no Morton [?]. So the next weapon we had was a--automatic rifle, Browning automatic rifle that--was like a light machine gun, fired 20 rounds in a magazine, and I borrowed one of those. I was an expert with that rifle, and laying in the trail, and fired those at the enemy for maybe 30 minutes, I guess. We kept--I kept firing. There's a couple of men off to the side, kept filling magazines and tossing them to me, and I'd fire. During the process, surprise to me, a German truck came out of the sunken road toward my position--because at the bottom of the hill they were, and made a left turn and then another left turn on the highway headed to the valley toward the Rhine River. I don't know why I--did not fire initially. I might have been out of ammunition. I might have been surprised and probably was surprised. But by the time they got on the road I--found an open spot where I could see 'em, and fired a couple of round--a couple of burst and hit the truck. Both the doors--flew open. Nobody came out. I'd taken care of 'em pretty well. And by this time all of the Germans were getting out of the area. They were firing, had been firing. [OFF-MIKE COMMENTS] [PAUSE]
[ ? ] the truck--
As I was firing the automatic rifle, looked down and a German truck, a large German truck about two and a half ton size came down, out of me--hide--they had been hiding from--in bushes or small trees. And I couldn't see the vehicle initially, came in my direction, of course, about 150 yards away downhill. They made a left turn, another 50 years onto the main--road, turned left and headed toward the Rhine River. Well, I don't know why I didn't fire initially. I was surprised possibly, possibly at that second out of ammunition. But I recovered and--by the time the reached the hard top road there was an open space. I fired a couple long bursts and a truck pulled over to the side, both doors flew open. And nobody got out of the cab. So I knew I'd taken care of that problem. But it--and later on, by the way, one of my sergeants checked that truck. I didn't know at that time that they had three large--112 mid-mor--millimeter mortars in their truck. And that was the mortars they had been using firing up the hill. And they were evacuating. At that time most of the German were beginning to run backwards toward the main road. There was tree-covered river, a small creek, I would call, leading to the--east on the Rhone. They would run through the grapevines into the trees, head east down the creek bed. And I kept firing and firing as they were go--running through the vines. And about that time my mortar section sergeant, a old, old--Sergeant Shoemaker, an old regular Army sergeant, came up top end and said sir, I got the mortar going nowhere. And I said here. He put the mortar in position. It's a small 60-millimeter mortar and a little base plate and they put that down and put it into position, and the gunner got behind the tube and the assistant gunner, the side of it--ready to drop a round into the tube. And the gunner kept saying where are they, where are they. He couldn't see. They were in the trees by this time, so--I politely--I told--told him to get out of the way and I'd do it. [NOISE IN BACKGROUND] So I got behind the--mortar and aimed it, and Sergeant Shoemaker got in the assistant gunner's position, and he got a round ready to go and then I--I fired. And the first round, coincidentally and by surprise to me hit about where I wanted it to go in the creek. And I fired the rest of his rounds, 10 or 12 of 'em, chased in the German [?]--I didn't see the damage I was doing, but I knew they were in there--until those rounds were gone. And by that time, everybody was out of sight, so I just stood up and told the guys to--follow me. Now, in the meantime they had passed the word to them when we got the first action, since they were single filed, maybe five yards apart going down the hill to break out and take cover. And they spread out in the grapevines and-- [VOICES IN THE BACKGROUND] --knowing old soldiers, which a lot of 'em were, they started digging holes. But, anyhow, I got up and said let's go, and trotted on down the hill, knowing they were following me. And as I got to the bottom there were some Germans that were surrendering, without opposition. But right at the bottom of the hill, about where the two and a half ton truck had--come out, where I'd seen it first, was one young blond-headed, blue-eyed soldier, didn't have a helmet on. And when he saw me I was round the curve, and he threw up his hands in a comrade type thing, and I half turned and told one of the people behind me that I could see, but the German couldn't see--he's just another prisoner, pick him up. I turned back to the front, and the explosion--went off to my rear. And I had no idea what it was. I didn't--whether it was a mortar round or a--hand grenade, I didn't see what happened. But later I was told that that--German had--put his hands up, I turned my back, put 'em down, tossed a grenade, and then put his hands back up again. And--the Sergeant Phillips, [ ? ] Private Phillips was the lead scout. He was behind me. He threw up his rifle to shoot the German, I guess, and the--by that time I was on my feet and I shoved the rifle up and said don't shoot. He surrendered. And he had--was surrendering, but--for a second he was--active. But after I got up I sent the first four or five men down a sunken road to check on any--Germans who were left in the area to--take care of any wounded, treat 'em, if necessary and break and destroy all the weapons that were left behind--there was a lot--and, and went on down another fif--the other 50 years to the road. The platoon leader go up to me, where I talked to him about where the platoon will be positioned, watched while the men were getting deployed and starting to dig their holes to keep the area free of German. So then I said goodbye, and I walked up the trail and went to my company CP and got my executive officer, Lieutenant--second in command, and told him--I was--been wounded. And--here's my watch which was government [?], here's my pistol. I gave it to the first sergeant 'cause you can't go to the rear with a pistol, or they would take it away from you in the hospital and--went on to the aid station. And, actually, I was a little bit concerned--because fighting behind us was going on still in the town. And--I waited, and some prisoners were brought up, and two, three of 'em in stretchers. And--I walked with the prisoners down to the town where fighting was going on, and about another mile up the next hill and found the aid station. The prisoners were turned over to the military police and--of course, my troops, the two or three of them that were guarding went on back into the fighting. Went to the hospital and the--went to the aid station. They checked me out and put bandages on my wounds, and--put me on a stretcher, went to the hospital. And just before Christmas, this was 16th of Dec--cember, just before Christmas they let me out of bed. And then I found out that all of the troops were--from the hospital being shipped north because there was a disaster north. A lot of people had been--wounded and captured. And I didn't want to go north to join another unit. So--I found a friendly doctor who did some surgery [SNIFFLING] and bandaged me up a little bit, went to the warehouse, found a uniform, and put it over my pajamas, some boots and hooked a ride. And I went back to my company. In fact, I--went back by--I guess it was ambulance. I bummed a ride, first back to the 3rd Division, and then found a-- [OFF-MIKE COMMENTS] [PAUSE]
Okay, tell me-- [OVERTALK] --we can pick it up from the point at which you're--
In the hospital.
You--you're in the hospital.
I was in the hospital and--for about 10 days, and I found that the people from the hospital, the wounded troops recovering, were being sent to units up north to replace soldiers who had been wounded or captured or whatever in the Bulge area. And I didn't want to go back to--some unit up north. I wanted to go back to my division. So I talked to a friendly doctor and he did some surgery, and at two o'clock one morning and bandaged on me, and told me to go back to the battalion surgeon when I got back, have the stitches taken out. I went over to the warehouse, and found the uniforms that fit me, boots, went out to the motor pool area where the trucks were parked, found an ambulance that was going back to Third Division, and then when I got to the Third Division Medical Company found a truck that was taking foods and other supplies to their forward aid station, got back there, and then I was still about two miles from my--unit, from the town of Kaisersburg. [?] So I started walking, a little bit concerned because there were German in the area, and I had no pistol. But after just a while a jeep came by, a quarter-ton truck going to my battalion headquarters. So I hitched a ride and went down into the town where the battalion commander and the regimental commander were located, had dinner with them that night. And they went back up to the hill. And my troops were about where I'd left 'em. I'd had five casualties, I think, since I was there, not serious. And I was concerned that a lot had been hurt. The day I was wounded I happened to be the only--one in my company that was scratched.
And that was from the grenade?
From the grenade. I--had--I believe eight--was eight places, about the calf of my leg just above my boot. My boots were torn up pretty good. They saved--my feet. But just above the--top of the boot calf to the middle of the back.
Do you consider yourself a hero?
No. I--didn't feel I suffered too much at that time. I'd lost some blood, but--and I guess I was hurting, but you get keyed up and you don't really know--but it was not until aid station before I realized that I should have stopped and got some kind of first aid in the route. But I don't feel like I did anything at all that was heroic. I did what I felt should have been done, and by me at that particular time and place because I knew I was a good shot. And I didn't mention before but the trail in the position where the--German were seen--from which they were seen--was such that you could--three steps and you couldn't see 'em, go back three steps and you couldn't see 'em. So there was only room for one person to lay down and do the shooting and the radio operating and so forth. And I decided to do that since--I was a senior man. [?]
When did you hear that you would be receiving the Medal of Honor? And how did you feel about it?
When I was--in about February, our division had finished the operations in the Comire [?] with the French and--had moved back for retraining, refitting, new recruits, new replacements in the area of Nancy, France. And that winter I'd got--bronchitis so bad that I was really out of operation [?] almost but--the battalion commander ordered me to go to the hospital. And I went there because I had bronchitis and laryngitis and pneumonia, this type. And while I was there the battalion commander visited me and said that--I had been recommended for the Medal of Honor, which was a surprise to me, recommended by three of the men in my company. And he said the policy was--that anybody who had been recommended in the Third Division would be immediately shipped to the rear, but that he had asked for an exception to policy, 'cause I wasn't going anywhere. And--so I was a little--I knew I'd been recommended for the Medal, for the first two weeks after I had gotten back to the company. We were fighting through the Ziegfried Line. [?] I was a little bit comprehensive because I knew that in two or three days I'd be going to the rear, and I didn't want to get killed or hurt the last couple of days. But word didn't come--never did come, I finished the war with the company. And I really found out about the Medal from a letter from my wife in June. It had been released to the newspaper in Wilmington, North Carolina and she, of course, found out about it, wrote me a letter and said congratulations. And then I went to the division and found out, yeah, it's been awarded. But I was the last one in the division that had been recommended for the Medal, and still living. And they were keeping me there for some on-guard operations.
Tell me who gave you the award and-- [OFF-MIKE COMMENTS]
Who gave you--can you describe it?
After I found out from my wife and then officially that I'd--had been awarded the Medal of Honor, I was still a company commander and was in Salzburg, Austria, that beautiful place. And in July--they had planned a big division formation on the fourth of July. And General Patton, I understand, was to be invited to make presentations to--the division, a uni citation, a Presidential citation to the Division. I was to get the Medal of Honor and four selected people the Distinguished Service Cross. And it was, oh, torrents and torrents of rain that day on the fourth. The whole division went out to the [ ? ] which is the airfield at Salzburg. Some drove in, some walked, and our company walked about three or four miles. And we stood then in formation and got the word then that General Patton couldn't get in because--of the weather. And he was some distance away and had to fly in, and he couldn't get in. So--we went back to our--places. The next morning repeated it, and this time it was a beautiful day and Lieutenant General Jeffrey Keyes [?], at that time the Second Corps Commander, our corps commander, was the officiating commanding general. And he--presented my award, then the Division Citation, and then the other awards. And we stood there while the whole division passed in review, about 15,000 troops.
Something you'll never forget.
It was the first time the division had been together like that since the war ended. So it was quite a--quite an affair.
That's great. [OFF-MIKE COMMENTS] [PAUSE]
Okay. [CLEARS THROAT] Tell me what the Medal of Honor means to you.
[PAUSE] I've been asked many, many times about being a hero and what the Medal--means to me. Of course, we all know, the recipients, that the Medal is the foremost military direct--decoration that can be presented to any--body in armed forces, something to be treasured, something to be honored and a privilege to wear. And when you wear it, you have to--people expect much, much more of you than--than you normally are sometimes. But you have to--act--treat everybody with respect and uphold the honor of the Medal and not do anything disgraceful. One of the biggest, maybe the biggest advantage of having the Medal is the opportunity to meet other Medal of Honor recipients, such as we are now doing at the present time in Branson [?], Missouri. We became like a family, just a group of friends.
[ ? ] How do you feel towards your other recipients?
Well, I think they're soldiers and marines and sailors and airmen just like me. They were doing their job. And I'm--I'm sure 99 percent of the ones who have ever been decorated, awarded the Medal, will say the same thing. They were doing their job, what they thought had to be done, and they didn't--it was done spontaneously by some. Some lasted weeks, their battles. And some lasted--seconds, when they fell on the grenade. And in my case maybe 30 minutes, maybe an hour and a half, I--had no feeling of time at all. And after World War II in September, I was anxious to get my--degree from the University of North Carolina. I'd had three years. And I was anxious to stay in the Army. So I applied for regular Army, and then got permission to go back to the States, got out of the Army for one--ten months, actually, and got my degree, and immediately came back on active duty. And I was in Korea after the fighting, and had a tour commanding a brigade in Vietnam.
Tell me if you were given the opportunity to go back, would you have done the--would you have taken the same risks? Would you have done the same things, if you--if you looked at it now, 60 years later?
As far as the action which led to the Medal of Honor, I think I--did what had to be done by me at that time, and I'm quite sure under the same circumstances would do it. And I've been back of that spot several times, as recently as last--May of this year. And I've gone over it and walked over it, talked about it with my son. And it's the thing that should have been done. I'm sorry I got wounded. But--I never turn my back on--in a-- [?]
I bet you didn't. The--what, what do you tell your children and--and the kids about the Medal of Honor, about the country?
Well, I stayed in the Army and my children grew up--in the Army. And they love the Army. In fact, my two sons served in the Army in Vietnam. And my daughter married a military person. None of 'em are regulars, none of 'em stayed in longer than five or six, seven years. But they know what the military is like, they know what the country is like. They love their country, and they respect the flag, and sometimes more than--more patriotic than I might be sometimes. And they grew up under the circumstances around military people, and--and they, they understand what our nation is about, and they'll fight whenever they can, do whatever they can for their nation.
Do you go out to schools a lot?
I go out--to, to schools. I used to talk to Kawanis Clubs and Rotarians and this type thing. But now I have to limit myself some, to some extent. I like to spend my available time talking to people, and I'd rather talk to the people from--students from sixth, seventh and eighth grade more than the high school. I think the high school people are smarter than I am sometime. But the sixth, seventh and eighth grade level are a great, great age group to talk to. And I do that as much as I can. Also, the Junior ROTC students, I take whatever chances I have to talk to those young people.
And, and what do you say? What are the keys to your message?
Well, I talk to 'em about loving their country and then sometimes about my background, how I grew up, the same way they did under different circumstances, and that whatever they want to do, they can do; they can go to school, they can get in the service. If they can't find any other way to get the money to go to college, they can go to--school, but they should take advantage, every bit of advantage of education. And I think even when they're sixties and seventies, still--be educated.
How has the Medal of Honor changed your life, for good and for bad?
As I stayed in the Army for all that time, except for the short time I was out going to school, I've been around military p--people. And they know what the Medal is. A lot of times we go to places and people don't understand what the Medal is. And some people nowadays have not been--much connection with the military and don't understand what the Medal is until you get to places--where they have some kind of special event, and the people are educated to the Medal of Honor and other decorations.
And how has it changed your life?
The way it changed my life--well, I'm looked up to and I know I'm looked up to just because--not because of me necessarily, but because of the Medal of Honor. But I've done the best I could to do the best I could throughout the time I was in the service and after I got out. I was--I graduated with honors or near honors to every military school I went to. I--during the Army I went overtime and got my--master's degree, so I continued the education.
How do you feel about the country? Are you optimistic about it?
I'm optimistic about our country. Sometimes during the Vietnam period the people in the military got--very disheartened about the lack of support that the country seemed to be giving the military. The people in Vietnam, my solders--I had a brigade in Vietnam, they did the best they could with what they had, and they were no different--maybe better--than soldiers in past wars. And when they came home and found out that they were looked down at, they were very disheartened. And some of them still haven't overcome that feeling. I've never had that experience. Only once or twice have I seen groups of people saying down with the military or down with the country, and--it's--we, we fought for their right to do what they're doing as well.
Absolutely. [OFF-MIKE COMMENTS] [PAUSE] [SPEEDED UP TAPE] [CUT, END SOUND ON TAPE 28, SIDE B] CONTINUATION OF INTERVIEW WITH CHARLES MURRAY [OFF-MIKE COMMENTS]
Okay. Tell me what the Medal and the recipients should mean to this country, to the people of this country?
Well, the people who wear--the men and this case now all men who wear the Medal should be luck--looked up to as representatives of our country. They're representatives of their military. But people should realize that the Medal of Honor recipients, as they wear the wer--wear the Medal, really don't wear it just for themself, they wear it for everybody else. They wear it for the men in their units, they wear it for the--troops that were killed in their unit. They really, really wear it for the country and not themself. And I think every one of them would tell you the same thing. [VOICES IN THE BACKGROUND] But the people in the country, they should--really--it's better to look at a Medal of Honor recipient, I think, as a hero rather than--some other type person who--as great as they are, they may be a great quarterback or a great--forward or a center in basketball or a great--baseball--and they're heroes. But they're not the kind of heroes that the people should be looking up to all the time in this country because they're people who have served their country, veterans of this country, people who are now fighting for our country that to me are more heroic than--any sportsman who ever lived, unless they gain--their position through some other endeavor. What I'm saying is you don't become a hero, you became well known and respected and looked up to because of things you might do, but not--hero is not risking your life, for example, for others, which I think that's what I was getting at.
So--the, the ideal of self-sacrifice is something that today's, quote, unquote, "heroes" don't have.
No, I think they all have self-saf--sacrifice. But it depends on the in--individual. The basketball player may be great but he also may be doing--many, many things for his community and young people that we don't really know he's doing. All we do is see him on the basketball court and--the young people say gee, what a--what a guy he is, he's a man to emulate.
I see. How can we educate the country better?
By talking to our young people, starting off in the very early age and getting across to 'em that--this country's whole history is based on military actions, unfortunately. You can follow the history of our country by following the--footsteps of the people who've served in the past, whereas throughout this country from border to border or across the world everything that's been gained by this country has been basically done by--in the long run by some kind of military action to military threat. We don't like to fight. We don't like to threaten other people with military but--when it comes down to it, that's what has to be done, as it is in Iraq right now. And the people there are heroic. I think they are doing just a tremendous job, those young soldiers. And every time you see a newsreel film of one of them looking in a tunnel, he's risking his life. Every time you see one of them breaking down a door, he's risking his life, and he's doing it not for himself, he's doing it for somebody else. And that's what we should think about, service to others before yourself, no matter what you're doing. Not only in the military but as a fireman, as a policeman, as a schoolteacher or whatever, do things for other people.
Do you have any other questions? [OFF-MIKE COMMENTS] [PAUSE] Let's just--I'm going to revisit one, one thing. [OFF-MIKE COMMENTS] You said that--when you got down there and the--the young blond soldier--who lifted his hands up, then you turned your back--on him, and he apparently threw the--grenade, is that correct? And--the, the rifleman behind you was c--were--was going to shoot him. You told him to stop, why?
Well, when I was wounded I hit the ground and--then I got up. As I got up my lead scout Wiley W. Phillips--came up to my side, threw up his rifle, and as I looked back to the front all I saw was a soldier with his hands in his air, and it was quite obvious that Phillips might fire his rifle and not through--hit it and knocked it up. [?] He didn't fire but--pushed it up in the air and said don't fire, there are others around. And, of course, they wouldn't surrender if they saw us killing prisoners. And he asked me later, he said--when I came back from the hospital why didn't you let me kill that guy. I said what guy. And he said the guy who threw the grenade. I said what grenade. [SNIFFLING] And at that time he told me what he saw happen. And I'm glad I--didn't let him shoot. But I--there were--in the same hospital ward I was in there was a mixed [PAUSE] ward. There was a young--one young French child about 10 or 12 had lost his leg by, I don't know, by French of by German or by Americans. And two or three German in the same ward. And there was one guy, a German soldier next to me, that far away in the bed, and then he kept looking at me and looking at me, and--I think I was--the one who shot him. He was hurt pretty bad in his stomach. And he kept staring at me the whole time. But he wasn't that young blond 'cause I knew that he hadn't been shot. He was captured and taken back to prison camp, maybe back to the States. I wished I knew his name. In fact, I'm glad that--I didn't see what he did, because who knows what I might have done if I didn't realize he had thrown the grenade. I might have let Phillips fire. And that would not have been right, of course, 'cause he was--in the act of surrendering.
Okay. Thank you very much for-- [OFF-MIKE COMMENTS] [INSERT]
And one--one might--one other thing. You got a l--couple of minutes' of tape?
Sure-- [OFF-MIKE COMMENTS] [PAUSE]
One thing that I did after the war, I was--went back in 1949 and I was stationed in Austria for almost four years. And during that time I went--back to France and through Germany and found the spot where each of the men that served me was killed [PAUSE] and honored them at that time. And I wondered what could I have done differently to not get them killed. But in the long run, I was told by other people who were in the company that--you couldn't have done anything different, you did the best you could. So I don't sorrow for those people. They served their country. There was 32 of 'em, by the way [VOICE TREMULOUS HERE] during the five months I was company commander that were killed under my command. And that hurt [SNIFFLING], and still hurts. But they did the job that they were--trying to do at that time they were killed. And--I grieved for 'em a long, long time, but no more. I'm happy that they did their job, and they served their country.
Do you feel that you wear--this for them?
I wear my Medal not for myself, and I know everyone will say that, but I--I really wear it for those kids that--those troops. We were all kids. That was a kid [SNIFFLING] that--lost their life in the war, particularly. Also for their families and for all those who served in the unit, and for those who should have gotten medals who didn't get medals. And, let's face it, there were--some people who did acts that were not recognized went unrecognized because perhaps there were no witnesses or nobody bothered to do that, or--or for any other reasons. Well, there are people who deserve medals of all kinds that should have got 'em, didn't get 'em. And we wear the Medal in honor for all of those people.
Thank you, sir. [OFF-MIKE COMMENTS] [NOISE IN BACKGROUND] [PAUSE] [CUT, END OF SOUND ON SIDE A, TAPE 29] [END OF INTERVIEW]