Encoded for the Experiencing War web site for the Veterans History Project.
The recording of the interview with John H. Gay, Sr. was digitized.
This transcription was encoded with minimal changes to the original text in an effort to preserve original content and idiosyncrasies of the person interviewed. Period language and terminology are also retained. Encoding is literal with regard to the transcriptionist's capitalization, punctuation, and spelling. Spelling errors are indicated with [sic]; however, recurring errors in spelling within a single document have been marked the first time and not subsequently.
My name is Roxanne Dubbs, R-o-x-a-n-n-e, D-u-b-b-s. I am an employee for the County of York. I'm employed by a district court. And I am here to interview a veteran whose name is John H. Gay, Sr. and in attendance is his son, Jeffrey Gay. Hello, John. How are you today?
Well, you must remember I lost 29 percent of my hearing.
Okay. You need me to speak louder? I'll be happy to do that.
Because but now since then, I believe when I left -- retired, I believe about 39 percent I lost. But I don't get anything for it from the government though.
Okay. I'll make sure that you can hear me when I ask you questions. Where were you born, John?
I was born in Albermarle County down in Virginia in the mountains.
Okay. What year?
19 -- It was 1923.
Okay. And who are your parents? Who are your parents? What are your parents' names?
Well, my mother was a Blackwell, Anna. Her name -- her maiden name was Blackwell.
Blackwell. Okay. And what was your father's name?
Well, his was Julius Edward Gay. Julius Edward Gay.
Okay.
And they called him Eddie.
They did? What were their occupations?
Well, I was just --
What was your father's occupation? What was his job?
Working in a lumbering business, you know. You know, cutting down trees.
Okay.
And on the farm they milk cows and things like that. They didn't have -- you know, he never had a good job.
Okay.
So we didn't get all of the -- what we needed to eat.
Okay. Did your mother work outside of the home?
Well, when we moved off the mountains, she picked peaches and apples and stuff like that which paid hardly nothing.
Okay. All right. Did you have brothers or sisters?
Yeah. I had an older sister. She was two years older than me.
What was her name?
Ruby. Ruby Lee.
Okay.
You know, Lee is -- most southerners had Lee in the middle name.
So it was just you and your sister at home?
Hmm?
Just you and your sister?
Well, no. I had a brother four years younger than me.
Okay. What was his name?
His name was -- see, I have to think. Clarence.
Clarence?
Clarence Gay.
Lee was his middle name too.
Clarence Lee.
Clarence Lee.
Yeah.
A lot of Lees, huh?
Yeah, after Robert.
Did he serve in the military also? Clarence, did he serve in the military?
No. He -- when he was young, he walked in his sleep. And one night he -- the window was open on the second floor. So he was holding on like this and my brother-in-law heard him scratching like this. So he went over and grabbed him and pulled him out or he would have fell two stories. But -- so the Army would not take him because he --
Because he sleep walked?
(Veteran moved head up and down.)
Okay. What did you do before you went into the service? Did you have a job?
Um-hum.
What did you do?
I worked for the Pennsylvania Railroad.
Oh, okay.
Right here in York.
So you moved from Virginia to York at some point. Do you remember when that was?
Well, I was -- yeah. That was -- it was -- let's see. This -- it was part of -- this -- what -- what number is it here now?
The year?
No. The month.
We're in October.
Tenth month. It was October and we moved from Virginia up to York. And I was about 12 years old.
You were 12 years old. So your whole family moved?
Well, actually my mother and dad had split.
Okay.
So I moved with the Harris family.
Okay.
And in the back of a lumber truck. And then there were four people in a cab place. And they were looking for work, the men were.
Their family had to move. They lived in what is now the Shenandoah National Park. And their family land which had been in the family since 1790 was taken by eminent domain for the purpose of creating the Shenandoah National Park.
I see.
So they needed to leave where they lived. And there weren't many jobs during the depression, and so they came north and they found work in York in 1936. So that's why they settled here.
Okay. Did his whole family move with the Harris family?
His sister and brother.
I'm the sole survivor of us kids in the back of that lumber -- big truck. And the people, all of them are gone.
Okay.
Twelve people in the truck coming up.
And you're the only one left.
He's the only one left living today. And he settled in the Stewartstown area first of York County.
Okay.
Before ultimately after the war living in the York area.
Okay. So when you came to York, did you get a job when you were here in York?
Not until I grew up I did.
You were 12 years old when you moved to the York area. So did you go to school here then?
I started to -- see, I -- down in -- I had went to school down in Virginia at 6 years old and then when I came up -- wait. Let me see. I was in sixth grade. And then but I had to redo that here when I moved here over in Windsor Park.
Okay.
Do you know where Windsor Park is?
Yes, I do know where that is.
That is not used anymore but --
There's a school house over there?
Yeah.
Okay.
Still there.
And is that where you went to school when you came to York?
Um-hum.
Okay. How many years did you go to school then? How old were you when you were finished with school?
Well, I was about -- about 12 years old when I started.
How many years did you go to school after that?
Oh, I went -- I remember my teacher there at Windsor Park. Buchanan was her last name. And they took up for me because I had a southern accent.
She probably thought it was cute.
Then -- then I went on to Hannah Penn.
Okay.
And so I went --
Did you graduate from school?
Well, I went over to William Penn.
Okay.
And I decided to join a CCC.
What does that stand for?
Civilian -- now I can't think of the middle one.
Conservation.
Yeah, conversation (sic).
Corp, right?
Yeah. But I learned more there than if I would have kept going to high school because they taught you just about everything, how to drive trucks and Jeeps. And I wanted to go way out west, but I went out on the other side of Gettysburg.
Okay.
Up on the -- it is still there. It is -- Pennsylvania took it over as a park.
Oh, okay.
Caledonia.
Hmm?
Caledonia area.
It is in Caledonia?
Yeah, Caledonia.
Okay. So you've been there and you saw it recently or like in the past few years?
Well, my last wife, I took her up there.
Does it look the same?
Well, some of -- some of the barracks are still there that we made.
Okay. You recognized it?
It is a big lake there too. Have you ever -- you've been there?
Pine Grove area also.
Oh, Pine Grove.
In that area.
It belongs to Pennsylvania now. It's a park.
Okay. State Park. Okay. Did you -- so that was the only job -- did you actually get paid for being in the CCC? Did they actually give you a wage?
We got a dollar a day.
Okay.
And I sent 25 -- it was $30 a month. They didn't take the 31. And I had them mailed to my mother, $25. And I lived on $5.
Okay. So after you were in the CCC, did you have any other jobs before you went into the military?
Well, then I -- back at that time, it was a TB hospital up on the mountain over there.
Okay. TB as in tuberculosis?
Well, I made more money there. So I got out of the CCC camp.
Okay.
And it is up in the mountain. What is that, Caledonia?
In the Caledonia mountain there, he worked in the tuberculosis unit there helping to care for people.
Okay.
So the first time I ever had a radio for my own self, see, we didn't have -- down in Virginia, we didn't have money to have that. But I had a room and a radio and I thought I was in heaven.
I bet you did. So did you buy the radio yourself or did they provide it for you?
They provided it.
Okay.
And then I had to get up early and set the tables for the kids that had TB.
Okay. So how long did you work there?
About -- let's see, about -- about six months. Then my mother told me to come back home.
So your mother wanted you to come back home to Virginia?
No, to --
Back to York?
Back to York.
Back to Stewartstown.
Um-hum.
Is that what you did after six months, did you go back home? Did you go back home after six months then like she asked you to?
Yeah. She missed me. So I went back to York. And then when I went in the Army, she moved to Stewartstown.
Okay. When did you go in the Army?
That was -- let's see now. February - see, that -- somebody had -- in my house, they put it. I used to know. I think it was February 1943.
Okay. Were you drafted or did you sign up?
Well, I was going to enlist but my -- being as my mother needed me to help her out, I -- I didn't enlist. I got drafted.
Okay. So how did you feel when you got the letter saying that you were in the Army? Do you remember how you felt?
Well, see, then I had to come back down there to live with my mother in Stewartstown. And I -- when I went up to the place up above Harrisburg, the Army -- and what was that? It's still there today.
In New Cumberland?
Yeah --
Or was it Fort Indiantown Gap?
Yeah, Indiantown Gap.
Okay. Is that where you started out? Is that where you went first?
Well, what they did, they put me in the Navy.
Oh, they did? Okay.
And I said, well, I don't want the Navy. And they said, what? You're going to -- don't you realize if you don't take that, we're going to have to put you in the penitentiary? And I said, well, here is my hands, put the cuffs on. I'm ready to go. And so all about the reigns. I said, no, I don't want that. I want the Army because the Army -- they didn't ask me any questions. So they moved me to another man up above. And he said, you're refused to be drafted? I said, no. I want to go to the Army. Because the Army had trained me in the CCC. And so he didn't like that. So he sent me up to the head man, the General.
Oh, really?
Yeah, up at Indiantown Gap.
Okay.
And he said, I understand -- I saluted him. And so he said, I understand that you refused to be drafted. I said, no, sir. That's not true. And so he said, why -- why are you resisting us here? I said, because I want the Army. And he said, well, why was that? I told him about the CCC training me in the Army. And so he said to me -- so he called another person in. And he said, I want to put this man here in the Army. And so he tore the other one up and put United States Army. But then he told me that I admire you. You're the only man of all of these thousands of people come up here that because you used your -- the head -- what do they call that when this nation was started?
Constitution.
Constitution.
Oh, your constitutional right?
Yeah. They said, you're the only man that had the guts to use your -- that. So and I admire you.
Wow. So how did that make you feel?
That made me feel real good because I was -- I wanted to go in the Army because I knew all about the Army more but because Army units people up there in the CC camps, they told me. But back at that time, see, in the CC camps, they were all white. And the black people had theirs. Did you know that?
No, I didn't know. So they were segregated?
Segregated.
They had two different kinds of camps?
Um-hum.
Depending on what your race was?
Yeah.
Okay.
In the CC camp.
Okay. So they told you you were going in the Army?
And he said he had great admiration for me because you took up for your rights, and -- and you're the only man that ever did that up here.
Wow. That's pretty exciting to have a General say that.
And I won.
Okay. So they said you were going in the Army. So do you remember when you left for training camp and what happened when you started training?
Well, if you don't mind me saying this, they did tell us there are prostitutes out on the streets -- see -- no, no. That's another thing. That I'll tell you later. I went back to York and went to Stewartstown.
Okay.
And then I got drafted from there.
Okay. So you went up to Indiantown Gap to tell them you wanted to be in the Army, and you got to go home before you went to training?
Um-hum.
Okay. Do you remember where you went to training?
Yeah. Up at New England states which was -- I'm trying to think of it. See, somebody took my -- all of this here and I didn't get a chance to look at it again.
Okay. That's all right. Do you remember how you got to -- did you go to Boston or Massachusetts for training? Do you remember how you got there?
Yeah. We went by train up to Massachusetts.
Okay.
And that's where Cape Cod, you know, out there.
Cape Cod. Okay.
Well, with the -- they would -- during the winter, we had to go out in the winter up there in those little tents. It is one soldier over here and me over here.
You mean two people in each tent? Is that what you mean?
Well, when we went out on bivouac.
Oh, okay.
And so that's the only -- so they would tow these little small unit. We would knock them down, you know. And the British bought their -- you know, Hitler was bombing London at that time.
Okay.
And they came over to train us, but we -- we out beat them, the British.
Who came to train you, the Germans?
Well, no. The English.
Oh, the English came to train you?
They came over here to train us --
Okay.
-- with their equipment. But our -- we had a better one and we -- we shot those planes down that they towed through.
As practice?
Uh-huh.
Practicing?
Yeah.
Okay. So did you --
There was nobody in there. They just towed it.
Okay.
Plane ahead. But then they -- we knocked them down from up there.
What did you knock them down with?
With our -- do you have that --
The picture of the gun that you showed me earlier?
Yeah.
Okay. So they gave you specialized training with that gun?
Out on the Cod.
Out on Cape Cod?
Cape Cod.
Was that the only kind of a gun that they trained you on or did you learn how to shoot other guns?
Well, we still did regular Army training.
Okay.
You know, big -- one time we made 35 -- we marched 35 -- what was it? -- in a summer.
35 miles.
Oh, you're talking about marching 35 miles.
Yeah.
That's a lot of marching.
With everything on your back.
Yeah.
And when we got back to camp, couple guys looked at this -- the people that told us what to do, they only had paper in their bag.
Oh, what did you have in yours?
Everything.
Like they told you to?
Yeah. We had a canteen. That is all the water we could have. You know, aluminum canteen.
Um-hum.
We only could have that all day -- all day.
You had to make that last until you were --
Yeah.
-- done, right?
And we were 35 -- put 35 miles that we did going and coming.
So how often did you have to do that?
Only one time.
Oh, well, that's good.
But I'm glad they -- this one guy went up there and he put his equipment down there like that, and he opened it up and it was just paper in there.
Did he get into trouble for that?
Well, I don't know what happened, you know. They stick together too, you know. You know, the Army is pretty -- they don't like to squeal on anybody.
Okay. So do you remember your instructors, what your instructors were like?
They were all from the Panama Canal. All of the -- they brought them up here to train us.
Okay. They came -- so your instructors were from the Panama Canal and came to Cape Cod to train you?
I used to know his name because he was in Pennsylvania.
Okay.
With a mustache.
Oh, yeah. So you remember what he looked like, right?
Yeah.
Was he tough?
But he asked me one time to lend him money and I knew better. Because a lot of times officers -- well, he was the head guy there and he was in the Army for about 25 years.
An officer was asking you, an enlisted man, for a loan?
Well, he wanted to borrow I think it was $20. And I told him a little white -- well, I had mailed it home to my mother. I said, no, I can't do it. Because, see, a lot of times in the Army, they will borrow money and you never get it back.
Oh, my. Well, then I guess you did the right thing. So how did you like military life? Was it easy? Was it hard?
It was easy to me. Because I worked down in the Pennsylvania Railroad, very hard work.
So you were used to hard work?
Um-hum.
And then did -- having worked in the CCC, did that help you when you were in training camp, did that help you?
Um-hum. Yeah. Because we went -- when it snowed, it snowed up almost to your knees. And we would go out in the forest up there, and we cut down -- somebody went ahead and the trees that should be cut down, they put white lights up there and we cut these trees down and put all of the brush in the gullies so it wouldn't, you know, wash away again. All of the -- and the others, we would saw them up for people to give -- to give away.
So you're talking about when you were in the CCC, that's what you learned to do?
Yeah.
So when you were training up in Cape Cod, did you say it was wintertime?
Winter and summer.
Winter and summer. How long were you in training?
That's the time when I left my -- we -- see, we finally after we finished all of our up there, we -- we got -- they said pack everything. Pack everything and get ready to go. But we didn't know where, to Germany or, you know, over there in the islands.
So you only trained one place before they said you were ready to go overseas or somewhere to your --
Well, we knew it would be overseas.
You knew that.
We already knew that by -- because the other ones had went ahead of us.
Okay. Do you remember any of the food?
Hmm?
Do you remember any of the foods that you ate in the Army? Do you remember how they fed you, like what kind of food?
Well, sometimes up at Edwards -- that's Camp Edwards up there.
Okay.
And that's the name of where we took our -- everything before we went overseas. And sometimes the big guys, if there was meat there over on the other side, they would take two of them and you was only supposed to take one. So when it came around to me, I didn't get any.
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah.
Were you at the end of the line all of the time?
No. I was sitting at the table. And they are bigger guys than me, so they took two pieces of meat. But by the time it came to the table, I didn't get any.
Wow. I guess did you have to go hungry then?
You have to just take what is there, you know. If you start complaining, then you -- that's hard to do in the Army.
They don't like that. Okay. After you --
He had a train ride to San Francisco to depart.
Okay.
And you might want to ask him about the train ride.
Okay. When you were done training and they said they're going to send you overseas, where did you go from there?
Well, to tell the truth, they didn't include me to go overseas.
Okay.
And again, I had to use my social rights.
Constitutional rights again?
That's right. And so I went to the head officer. And he said, well, that's the way it was. You got to stay here and train, train the other ones.
So they wanted to make a trainer out of you?
Yeah.
They wanted you to train other people?
Yeah. That's what they wanted of me. And I kind of doubted that. So again, I had to reach up, go up to the top. And so I'm not going to be a good soldier anymore. I want to go overseas with my friends. And I didn't know which way, going to Europe or the other side. And you know what, the head man there, again, he said, you really want to go overseas? I said, yes, I want to go overseas. I figured it might be Russia -- or I mean Germany. But it wasn't. So, again, the officer gave me -- saw that I would go get on that train and go. But, again, I used my constitutional rights.
Okay. So where did you end up going?
Going to California.
Where at in California?
It was a big Army base there. Right near -- where --
San Francisco. You took a train across the country.
So you took a train to San Francisco?
Oh, yeah. But -- and then it was black people that ran, you know, brought your food to you.
On the train?
Um-hum.
Okay.
And so it took about five days I believe to go on the train over into Los Angeles -- not Los Angeles. I always forget.
San Francisco.
I haven't looked at these records that I have.
You ended up in San Francisco.
So then we had to put everything on our back.
Again.
Yeah. Everything, and that's about 60 pounds. And so we walked down to a river like and got on a ferry and took us into there. And then we boarded a ship. And they took out during the next morning. And some of the guys got sick just before they got out.
Because they were on a boat?
Yeah.
Did you get sick?
No. It didn't bother me a bit.
And he -- as they went through on the train, they -- in different cities, they were greeted by people as they were --
Oh, okay.
Oh, yeah. I forgot that.
Did you stop at different places?
Well, sometimes they'd stop. And civilians all the way out there brought us cake and candy and -
Did you have to stay on the train but they came to see you? You weren't allowed off the train? So they came to see you and greet you, the people from the town?
Yeah. They'd open the doors and they'd give us sandwiches all the way out there when they stopped. Some people had to go to a latrine, you know. I've asked a lot of soldiers, do you know any French? But the Army is -- you know George Washington, you know, when we -- during the revolution, they used French for the Army and Navy. So bivouac and all of that, it is all French.
Some of the words are in French, aren't they?
Yeah, most of them are. Mess hall. And just about anything in the Army is French. And I never found a soldier that knows that.
Wow. So you kept looking, huh?
Yeah.
How did that make you feel when the people from the towns would bring you food and goodies?
We thanked them. We thanked them and they saluted us.
The people from town gave you salutes?
Well, they might have had, you know, sons and girls already in the fight.
Okay. Were you fed on -- you were fed on the train normally but the people from the town brought you extra food; is that what you're saying?
Yeah.
Okay.
They were so nice. I believe they did that to show us that the people are supporting us.
Okay. It sounds like that is exactly what they were doing.
Yeah. Look at these people here. They are supporting you. But we still didn't know where you were going.
So you got on the train but you didn't know what your destination was going to be?
Hum-um. But we knew it was going west.
Okay. Over the Rocky Mountains.
And they entered a ship in San Francisco. Maybe he can tell you about the ship that they entered.
Okay. So when you got to San Francisco and they put you on a ferry you said, right?
Yeah.
And the ferry took you --
We were sitting like this. And you held your rifle down between your legs like this.
Oh, you had your rifle with you to get onto the ship?
Yeah. With no bullets.
No bullets. Okay.
But we were so tight. There was a soldier here, soldier here, and one back of me and one right -- packed in there in that ferry to get us all in there.
Okay. And then do you remember the name of the ship?
No.
Okay. What happened when you got on the ship? What happened when you got on the ship when the ferry took you to the ship? What happened?
We had to sit there just there and not move because you couldn't get out of there because soldiers were all around you.
Okay.
And I think it had two stories, one up there and one down.
The ferry did?
Yeah.
Okay.
What time of the day was the -- did the ship leave?
We didn't know where it was going when we got -- the next morning when it got daylight, you could go up on deck to see, you know, the outdoors. Because so many times, you know, maybe twice a day or something like that you get fresh air. But the other time you had to be down there. But a sailor became -- he kind of liked me and he took me around when I went upstairs up on the deck. And he took me all over that soup ship. And down in here is water down there. And I said, what is that, you know? That sounds like water splashing around. And he said, it is. He said it is down in that placement. And that helps the -- I didn't -- I didn't know that.
So they wanted the water to be in the ship?
Yeah. If it gets too high, they pump it out.
Okay.
I think the ship left in the night, and they were not allowed to come up on the deck. And so he couldn't see it leave the San Francisco harbor. So he never got to see the Golden Gate Bridge. So we made a special trip when he turned 85 so that he could see the Golden Gate Bridge.
But you know, we were the only ship though. And so when I was up on deck I was like where is, you know, somebody - - the Navy supporting us? Well, this one sailor said, well, we can outrun them. But with all of them people on there, I don't know.
Okay. You were on the ship heading somewhere but you didn't know where you were heading to. And you had to stay down below the deck. You couldn't see where you were going. What happened when you arrived somewhere? Do you know where you ended up?
Yes. We -- we came into Pearl Harbor.
Oh, you ended up in Pearl Harbor.
Um-hum.
And that's in Hawaii.
Yeah, Pearl Harbor. And then we got off of that and got boats -- I mean trucks and went to a big camping grounds up -- and, see, have any of you ever been to Honolulu?
I have.
That's the 50th --
I've been there. I've been to Pearl Harbor.
What is that big peak there?
Diamond Head.
Yeah -- no, not -- that's where swimming is.
Okay.
No, it's up on -- you go up there and it is so windy it will --
It is starts with a P. Pulau or something like that.
Yeah. Wind blows all of the time.
Yep, I've been there.
I've seen some blown off motorcycles.
Oh, really?
Yeah. They come up there and the wind was so great it would blow them off the -- I saw that.
So you were stationed at Pearl Harbor or was it --
We went over that big mountain into a big camping ground in tents. And then they finally took us over back into where they had a lot of pineapples.
Okay.
And they had a great big water wooden about this wide. And up in the mountains, they put the water in there. They come down and put water in for the pineapples.
Like an irrigation system?
Yeah.
Okay.
But some of us guys got in there and took baths.
Were you allowed to do that?
Well, no.
Did you get into trouble for doing that or didn't you?
No.
You didn't get caught?
We took our clothes off, in that trough bringing all that water was kind of chilly too.
I guess coming down from the mountains I guess it would be cold.
It was about this wide.
Okay.
And the water comes down to -- for the pineapples.
Did you take a bath in there because you didn't have another place to take a bath?
I think we did it just for the --
Just for the heck of it?
Yeah.
Okay. That's pretty interesting. Do you remember when you were in Pearl Harbor, like what the date was?
Well, we -- well, when -- yeah, we were allowed. But before you could go into Honolulu, they would make sure that you looked like a soldier. You had your boots polished and everything, tie on right. And if it wasn't tied right, you can't go into Honolulu. The officers, they wanted to make the Army look good because --
Okay.
You got the Navy and everybody there. It is more people there in -- you know, everywhere. Soldiers, sailors.
Now, when you were -- when you were in Pearl Harbor in Honolulu, what was your duties there?
Well, I was a gunner. And on that picture, we practiced also over there knocking down, you know, shooting the -- a lot of them was made right here in York, you know, them big ones.
The guns?
Yeah. It weighed about 50 pounds. Skinny me, I could reach over there where the radar was -- you know, practice on how fast with the gun. Then we would -- we would practice over there.
You practiced shooting at targets with the gun or did you just practice moving the gun around?
Well, you use a star. See, 16 guns are scattered out and all of them uses the star up there.
To aim for --
Yeah.
-- your target?
Yeah, the target.
Okay.
And then they all four come together up there. If it was a plane -- there was no planes. But we used a star at night and all 16 guns would fire at the same time up there like this.
Wow.
And that's how we could shoot down 45 planes.
Okay. So you practiced shooting?
Yeah.
Training.
But we had to -- all of those shells had to meet the star that we could see.
Did you have any kind of special duties when you were there?
Well, when we went to the international place, you know, you're supposed to go -- the Navy -- see the Navy ship. But it was a great big fat one up there. But just a little thing, pants down and you're supposed to go up and kiss his belly.
Was this a statue you're talking about?
No, no.
An actual person?
He was sitting up there like a king, you know.
A person?
Yeah, a person.
Was he like a Hawaiian?
Again, I refused. I'm not -- so the Navy came down after me. And you're supposed to go up there and kiss that Navy up here. And I --
What was that for? Why did they want you to do that? Was it like for luck or something?
Going across international -- over there in the ocean. See, we were out in the ocean now.
Okay. So now you left Pearl Harbor.
Oh, yeah. I got ahead.
Okay. We'll follow. Can we back up a little bit? It says here that you were in the Honor Guard, something to do with President Roosevelt.
Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, when we got in the truck -- and there was about 40 people in a couple Army trucks. And we went up on a plateau and that's when these big -- what do you call them cars? -- it was -
Like a Jeep?
A limousine.
Oh, in a limousine?
Limousine, yeah. And the head man was there.
Who is the head man?
Well, General -- he had been called back from the -- down where he was to Washington to be the head man.
General MacArthur?
Yeah.
Okay.
And he was there.
Okay.
Roosevelt had called him there to --
Called him to Hawaii where you were stationed?
Yeah.
Okay.
These limousines, about five of them went back behind a fence of woods so you didn't see them anymore.
Okay. How were you involved with that? What did you do?
Well, I -- then when Roosevelt came out, you saw him. I didn't know he couldn't walk and most all of the others. See, I was only 18.
You didn't know that President Roosevelt couldn't walk?
Yeah. And he -- well, he made a speech.
Oh, okay.
And what he said was -- I'm going to tell -- I'm your head chief, you know. That's what he said. I'm your -- your -- your -- Commanding officer?
Yeah. And so --
Commander in chief?
He said what I want to tell you, the European is -- got all the things that they need. And you're going to take seconds, like tanks and trucks and uniforms and food and everything goes to Europe. And when we beat Hitler, we're going to send -- I'm going to send one million soldiers over there to beat Japan. That's what he said.
Okay.
And this was more to that but --
What were you doing? Were you a guard then? Were you like --
Well --
-- guarding him?
We had soldiers, one here, you know, was with a uniform on.
Okay. So you were guarding?
Khakis.
Okay.
Something like this.
So was it your regular uniform or was that something special?
Well, it was summer. See, it is warm over there.
Your summer uniform.
Summer uniform because we didn't have the other one.
Okay.
So you got to serve as the Honor Guard for President Roosevelt during World War II when he was there during that time period. In a ceremonial role, you got to serve if I remember correctly.
See, I didn't quite hear that.
He said, did you get to serve in an honorary position for President Roosevelt when he was in Hawaii?
Yeah.
So you got to serve --
But I didn't know until it was going to be Roosevelt because he had to keep that secret.
Oh, so you didn't know until he arrived?
Yeah.
Okay. But what about General MacArthur, did you know he was coming or was that a secret also?
All of us soldiers figured -- one of the guards had MPs, you know, they knew.
Okay.
They had to protect.
But you didn't know?
We didn't know. Somebody spurted out and found out that's Roosevelt back there.
Okay.
And the head man for the -- for the whole western part.
Okay. So you actually got to see him. How close were you?
About -- real close. I was about like say about -- let's see, about from there to where he is.
About as long as this room which looks like --
Up in --
-- about 12 feet long.
Probably that. He had to sit down, you know. So you saw the top of him when he made his speech.
Okay. So you were pretty close.
Yeah. About that far as my son, about that up there.
Okay. That's not very far. So were you standing or sitting?
Standing.
You all had to stand --
Standing.
-- while he gave his speech?
With -- with the M-1 rifle.
Okay. Oh, with your rifle?
Oh, yeah.
Did you have bullets in your rifle?
No, no, no.
No bullets.
They made sure.
Who made sure?
The military police.
Okay.
They had the guns.
They had guns with the bullets, but you weren't allowed to have bullets?
No.
Because it was the President?
They came around. If you had anything in your pocket, you had to take it out.
Okay. Like what?
They would pull it -- pull it but we were told not to take anything.
Okay. So you had empty pockets?
No, we didn't have anything. No bullets.
So why do you think they were doing that?
Well, they -- they had to make sure nobody shot him.
Okay. They were protecting him.
Somebody might have had a bullet in your house (sic), in here.
In your mouth?
In your mouth. Okay. And then all they had to do was put it in the rifle and shoot him.
Did they check your mouth too? Did they make you open your mouth to make sure?
I don't believe they did.
Okay.
But most -- you know, most of us, you know, were so patriotic.
Right.
Because we were -- you know, we liked him.
You liked President Roosevelt?
Oh, yeah. I voted for him.
Okay. You did?
Um-hum.
Okay. So after you were in Hawaii and trained there, then where did you go after Hawaii?
Well, we sailed and General MacArthur -- when you sailed, it was Navy ahead of you and back of you, over here. Like about -- you could see about 50 of them.
Okay.
Protecting all of the --
This time you were allowed to see where you were going?
Yeah. When I got up on the deck, you could see that. So.
Okay. What did that look like being up on the deck and seeing all of those boats? What was that like?
Very -- how would say -- they are protecting us from --
You felt safe?
Yeah. I felt safe.
Where were you with the boats? Were you like in the middle of all of the boats or were you on the side or the back or the end?
Well, there was so many boats going to the -- going to the first place I went.
The Philippines.
Oh, you went to the Philippines?
Yeah, Philippines. October 20th.
That's 1944?
Um-hum. See, when I went to -- I was put in the 7th Infantry that went up to Alaska. See, they had taken them two islands. They had to take them back. That was before I got there. But then the 7th Infantry was sent down there for R and R.
R and R means what?
Rest and -- rest and --
Relaxation.
Yeah.
So when you left Hawaii, did you go to the Philippines or did you go to Alaska? You went to the Philippines?
Well, we really didn't know.
Oh, so --
That's secret. Because --
How long did it take, do you remember?
Oh, my. See, they had taken a whole bunch of islands down there and they knew they had to take hundreds of thousands of men to take that island. So over there it is -- it is 200 islands.
The Philippines are you talking about?
Yeah. But some of them are so little there is only snakes and mosquitoes.
Right. Yeah. Nobody wants them.
And there were a lot of snakes over there. One of them came in our little tent.
When you were -- are you talking about when you were in the Philippines?
Yeah, Philippines.
A snake came in your tent?
Yeah. And --
Were you sleeping or awake?
Well, it was during the daytime. He came in the tent.
Okay.
And I took my -- what do you call that big sword you know here? I can't think of it right now. And he started going out of it, so I cut his tail off about that far.
Oh.
And he kept on going.
You didn't kill him?
I ran outside and he went into the jungle.
So when you arrived in the Philippines, where did they put you when you arrived? Did they put you in tents right away or did they put you --
No.
-- in a temporary barracks or something?
I went off -- see, those big guns had to be there because the Japanese were starting to bomb, you know, different places where we were. In fact, it was a small mountain there when we got there. And they were shooting before we even -- as the ships came in there.
Oh, while you were still on the ship, you were being shot at?
Yeah. And up on the mountain.
Okay.
Not just one, about half a dozen. You could see them up there and the bullets coming down towards the boats.
Did they actually get close to the boat you were in?
Actually, it didn't hit the ship. Because we were out of --
-- out of range?
-- range. And they -- you could see the bullets fall -- further they went, they came in the ocean or else --
You saw the bullets hit the ocean instead of hitting the ship?
Yeah.
Were they close? Did they get close to the ship?
The mountain was -- that mountain was about real -- about five times higher than this. But you could see them up there as we came in there.
Okay. Did you know they were going to start shooting at you before they actually started shooting?
See, those big guns, I had to go down first. Those rope ladders, you know --
Are you talking about the guns on the ship you had to go to and help with them?
Well, see, I -- some of the other guys were from Chicago -- where were we the other day eating down in - -
Baltimore.
Baltimore. They would -- you know, they were on our ship. And you could -- so they kept up on the mountain. You could see them. They were standing up and shooting at the machine guns. But a lot of times the bullets would fall before they got to the ship.
Okay.
They had to get the guns off the ship and get - -
So that gun was on the ship, the gun in the picture?
-- it onto the beach in the Philippines to defend.
The gun in the picture, that type of gun was on the ship with you and it was your job to get it off the ship?
They were shooting them hoping that they would -- the bullets would, you know, reach us on the ship.
Right.
But then as soon as we got up there close to the beach, we -- we had to go down those rope ladders with all of our equipment on. I looked up above there. And I said one of those guys up there slips, gets hit by a bullet, they will come down and knock me down on the boat and break my back. That was -- I kind of thought about that. But it didn't happen.
Okay. So were -- so you were able to get off okay with nobody being hit by any bullets and then you had to get the guns off the ship?
Yeah. They brought them out and then we set them up. And -- and dog battery, the first one, it might have been my one that shot -- shot the first ship down, Betty. They -- remember, I said they named them Betty.
Okay.
And little did I know after the war, I met a girl, pretty girl. Her name was Betty.
Did you tell her that you knew the ship that was named after her?
Yeah. I'm getting ahead of you.
It was the plane, the Betty bomber.
Oh, the Betty bomber. Oh, the plane was called Betty?
Betty. And they shot it down.
So your guns shot the plane down that was called Betty.
The first day.
The first day that you were there?
We -- first day my ship -- my group of four of those big cannons shot down those Betty bombers down because we saw him come right down and exploded.
Wow.
And everyone -- there was no parachutes and all of those guys died.
Yeah. The ones that were in that plane.
Yeah.
So how many people work those guns? Is it just one person working on a gun or is it more than one?
On the guns, two. Me on this side and the cannon is here and after I put it up here then out of the radar -- see, that's continuously coming. But he's riding around. His name was Frank Owens. I remember his name, Frank Owens.
What was his job?
Well, the -- the radar was farther away from us but it came in cable to him.
Okay.
So he could set the -- put it to go off so much. Because, you know, airplanes flying like this but you got to put the -- get shells up in front of it so you can shoot it down.
Okay. So did he -- was his job to tell you where to shoot?
Well, that when he set the radar, what the radar picked up.
Okay.
How far up it was, how fast it is going. So it is fed into this and he's riding and so he sets the big shell to go up and take time to go up there in front of it or back of it. And my group was the dog battery.
Dog battery?
Yeah.
That was the name of your group, the dog battery?
Dog, d-o-g.
Okay.
Dog battery. So we shot the first one down, the Betty bombers. It went down. I felt sorry for them though.
Did you?
Because they all died because there was nobody jumped out with a parachute. It went over and straight down and exploded. So every one of them was killed.
Could you feel the explosion from where you were? Could you feel it? Like could you feel the explosion like the heat from the explosion --
No. It was too far.
-- the blast?
It was too far. You could see them though.
Okay.
Another day though their bombs did reach the beach head where they were at and he was --
Okay.
Oh, yeah. We had -- let's see now. That early morning they said that the Japs are going to bomb the beach. So they told us we have to -- we were just sitting out there with nothing to protect us. So we had to go down on the beach and fill up sacks of sand and fill it up all around our cannons.
Okay.
So you couldn't put it up too high because we sometimes fired on the ground.
Okay. Because of how the gun had to move you couldn't put it up too high, correct?
Yeah.
Okay.
If you put sandbags up too high, then you couldn't help the people on the ground.
Okay.
See, we shoot them too.
Okay.
And when they -- and so while we were there, they started -- the Japanese soldiers, they started digging ditches. And they are not as tall as what we are though. They'd go like this, trenches like this zigzag. And they were going to -- after we landed, they were going to come get in those trenches. And when they got on the beach, split up and go this way and that way before we could do it. But we shot our guns above there and having exploded to go down in that trench that they made. And the next day the guys ahead of us said you saved the day.
You did.
Sixteen guns fired towards those ditches that they had. Because, see, most of them weren't as tall as we were.
So your guns sat up higher than the other ones did; is that right? Is that what you mean?
Yeah. It was up about that high.
That's about 4 feet?
Um-hum.
Okay.
Because you can't go that high.
You could see more than the other ones could see; is that correct?
Yeah.
So you saved them by -- what exactly did you do in order to save them, you shot into the trenches?
We didn't know until the next day. The sentry, you know, ahead of us, the 7th Infantry, said you saved the day for us. Because when you shot over them, the Japanese didn't know we had shells that would go -- explode above the ditches.
Okay.
And we killed them in the ditches when they tried to come in on the beach.
So you kept them from reaching the Americans by --
Yeah. We shot so many.
-- knocking them out of the ditches?
That's why I lost a lot of my hearing, you know, 29 percent.
Because of all of the --
All of the exploding. You don't -- you don't believe --
So you lost your hearing way back then?
Yeah. I still get -- you know, my ears hurt. And I get that wax in there.
They provided no ear protection for the soldiers in those days.
So you had no ear plugs whatsoever when you were shooting those guns off?
Not even cotton.
Nothing at all? Not even -- how about your fingers, did you stick your fingers in your ears?
No, no. Because you're --
Because your hands were busy.
Yeah. My hands were busy. As soon as that shell was put up on block, then my friend from Catonsville -- Catonsville, York -- I mean --
Maryland.
Yeah, Maryland. He was from there. And he had a girlfriend. Most of the boys weren't married because they were drafted, 18 or 19.
Right.
So anyway --
You were saying about the noise.
Yeah, the noise. When I went to Caterpillar, they said I'm 29 percent.
We're going to finish up with just a couple questions here. Okay?
Okay.
Can I just add one thing there? The airplane the Japanese shot and blew up right by him knocked him unconscious. And maybe he can just tell you.
You were knocked unconscious because of what, what happened?
Well, they told us they were going to bomb the beach the fifth day in. That would be the 25th. And they said we got to put them in those big bags, you know. So we went down. And the New York people, you know, they took pictures of us down there filling them sacks up.
Of the sand?
And I had one of them. I let it out and never got it back. They -- see, it was all of us down there filling them bags up, putting them in the trucks, and then putting around the big ones there.
So what happened with the plane that came in that shot at you?
Well, at nighttime it is a big spark goes way up there. And while we were shooting at the big planes, the Japanese had took kids that just finished twelfth grade and taught them how to drive these small planes like that fly around here.
Okay.
So when -- they protected the Betty bombers.
Okay.
But when they see that big flame come up there --
From your gun.
-- from the gun, they come down with -- and strife us with their guns.
Strife you means what --
Couple times --
-- shooting at you with bullets from their --
They were shooting.
Okay.
And they would -- so they would -- I figured a couple of times I could pick up the empty -- the shells went off, you know, about that big. I have a few of them at home.
Oh, you do?
Um-hum.
So they shot at you?
Um-hum.
And what happened?
Well, they also on C battery, they -- they dropped parachutes down. And they came down in the airplanes and got soldiers out. And they killed some of our guys in C battery.
Did you get shot by the plane that came down that shot --
Well, when the bomb went off on the beach, it knocked me out.
It knocked you out.
I was standing up because I'm waiting to put another shell in. But they thought they was friendly.
You thought they were friendly airplanes?
Well -- yeah.
That they were US airplanes?
In the early morning, they knew. They said they are going to bomb us tonight. But why didn't they let us know? They thought they were friendly planes and nobody -- we couldn't shoot. And so --
You were surprised?
I was standing right up on the -- standing up. And all of a sudden when it exploded down here right near me, it picked me up and out. And so I went about that far.
So did it knock you off your feet?
Knocked me out.
You were unconscious?
Yeah, unconscious. And that's why I didn't feel that piece of metal go in me down here.
Oh, so you got hit with a piece -- so you had a piece of metal hit what, in your leg or where?
In his private area he got shrapnel.
It is still in me.
Oh, my. Okay.
Well, not too long ago here in York, my doctor -- I said I'd like to get that cut out. And he said, does it hurt? I said, no. Well, just leave it in there, he said.
Okay. Is there anything else that you think is really important that you want people to hear about?
I think that the most important thing, our President came. And, you know, he was in bad shape. Come over there to tell us what was going on in Washington and -- but he never talked about the A bomb, of course. But we -- but we were happy when A bombs went off and the war ended. But let me tell you a little story. Right about two weeks before the war ended, one of those little guys came down, you know, small. I was the only man on wiping off and seeing everything was ready, my gun. And all of a sudden this -- I heard this noise come down. And this -- and it was one of those little planes like a young man. And he stopped his plane right here about as far as from me to my son.
So he landed next to you?
He landed. And he had a gun on me.
Oh.
And my gun wasn't allowed up there.
You didn't have it with you?
No. It was down here. And if I started running -- so he was -- he looked at me and I looked at him. And lo and behold -- he was about my age, about 20 years old. And he stared at me and we never smiled and we never talked. But he had the gun on me. Like all he had to do was pull that trigger.
Uh-huh.
So what I did, I said, well, this is my day to die for my country. So I stood up like this. I stood up like this ready to be killed. And I looked at him like this. And so he'd hit my heart and my backbone and kill me just like that. And so he kept looking at me and he was just -- he didn't look like an oriental. He looked more like us. But he was just a young boy. And I -- I was ready for death. And we kept looking at each other for about 10 minutes. And all of a sudden, I figured, well, this is my day to die for my country. And so all of a sudden he went like this and took off with his plane and went up to the sky.
Wow.
That's how close I came to death.
That's pretty close.
All he had to do was pull that trigger and I would have been dead.
Wow. That's very close. Well, I think we're going to end the interview here. You gave us a lot of information about yourself, John. Thank you so much for sharing. It was very interesting and it sounds like you went through quite a bit in the war. You got to meet the president, and you got to learn how to shoot a big gun. You took care of our country.
Forty-five planes they shot.
Forty-five planes you shot down.
More than any other Battalion in World War II.
You know our president died April 12th. And all of us were sorry about that. But you ought to saw all the shells the Navy shot up in the air. And some people went to try to get away because the whole sky was filled up with people so happy that war had ended.
Right. Where were you when the war ended?
Well, I was at the gun.
In the Philippines?
In Okinawa.
No. I was in Okinawa. See, I had two places. See, it took a long time to go from the Philippines over here to here. I had this put on here not too long ago.
That's a nice hat.
There's only one place to do that here in York.
Okay. Well, John, thank you very much for all of your information. We have got a lot of valuable information that we'll be able to share with a lot of people.
Yeah, I'm lucky to be here.
We're happy that you are.
Thank you.