>> From the Library of
Congress in Washington DC.
>> Ellen McCulloch Lovell:
I'm Ellen McCulloch Lovell
and I'm the president
of Marlboro College,
which is a small
liberal arts college in
southern Vermont that was
started in 1946 from two --
by three veterans
returning from World War.
II I'm also the former director
of the Veterans History
Project and I'm
so happy and proud to be
here today to see all of you,
to honor all of you, to see
what's happened at this reunion,
to be here with my
mother and wife of
Lieutenant Colonel Ronald
McCullough and my uncle,
[inaudible], my Uncle Huey
who was in the infantry
with the 86th Blackhawk
Division,
very proud day for all of us
and for our very good
friends on this panel.
I'm just going to
tell you a little bit
about the Veterans
History Project
because this is going to be
going on for days and I want you
to know that we want your
stories now, the next day,
or in the months coming ahead.
We're so happy to be joining
with the Smithsonian Center
for Folklife and
Cultural Heritage
and American Battle
Monuments Initiative,
which is doing this huge event
on the mall through Sunday.
The Veterans History Project
is a project of the Library
of Congress and it's
American Folklife Center,
it was created by Congress
in 2000 because they felt
so strongly that the
firsthand accounts
of war veterans from
all 20th century
wars should be saved -- should
not be lost, and fortunately,
AARP came along as our
main corporate sponsor,
and so that's how we
got off the ground.
It's also the largest roundup
of firsthand personal accounts
since the days of the WPA and
that attempt to fan out all
over the country
collect those stories.
And it is the first national
project that uses volunteers
and some of our volunteers
are here for today,
and some of our star volunteers
have interviewed 50, and 75,
and 100 veterans for us.
We collect tape recorded
interviews, video --
video interviews,
letters, photographs,
and your written memoirs, and
we'd love to have them all.
And these are very precious
memories that will be preserved
in the Library of Congress.
If you give us your wartime
memories, they'll be saved with
70,000 other items
representing almost 20,000
individual's stories.
For those of you who want
to share your stories online
by computer, you'll see the
computer stands over there.
If you want to sign
up for an interview,
please sign up over here because
we're taking live interviews.
And all over the
mall, you're going
to see our roving volunteers
in these purple shirts
and purple hats and
they'll come up and ask you
to share your wartime
memories with them
on a -- the tape recorder.
So, we hope that very much --
very much that you'll do that.
If you want to see and hear
other veteran's stories,
go online, go to
www.loc.gov/vets.
Ask any of the volunteers
around [inaudible] go and on
and hear the stories,
such as Tracy Sugarman's
and [inaudible],
as we've pointed
out in the session before.
And remember, we're
collecting from all veterans
and civilians who served.
So, if you're a war
industry worker,
if you were a nurse,
or a nurse's aide,
if you were in [inaudible],
if you helped the dockside,
or on the home front, or the
front lines, we want your story,
men and women, and all
branches, Air Force,
Army, Marine Corps, Navy,
and the U.S. Coast Guard,
and the Merchant
Marine [inaudible].
So, we invite you
to help us collect
and create this national
collection and
join thousands of partners
all over the country
who are doing [inaudible] so
these stories are preserved,
and they can teach the next
generation about service
and what that is all about.
And now you're going to
hear some remarkable stories
of service and the moderator
of this panel is Bob Babcock,
he's with Americans Remembered,
one of our most active partners
from Atlanta, Georgia.
And Bob, I think you've done
almost 100 interviews yourself?
>> Bob Babcock: Yes, ma'am.
>> Ellen McCulloch
Lovell: That's right.
So, please welcome Bob Babcock
and these amazing individuals
who were [inaudible] D-Day.
>> Bob Babcock: Thank
you, Ellen.
And all of you should know that
Ellen was the original director
of the Veterans History
Project so she's the lady
that started this off, so
we've got a lot to thank her.
She's moved on now as president
of a small College
up in New England.
But today's topic is D-Day
stories and as most of you think
of D-Day, you think
of June 6, 1944,
and that's what we're
going to talk about.
But there were many other
D-Days in World War II
and in subsequent wars.
D-Day means the day,
unknown yet,
when an invasion would happen,
and H hour is the unknown hour
when they will actually
hit within D-Day.
Just out of interest, how many
in our audience today
participated in any D-Day,
whether it be North Africa,
Sicily, Italy, Pacific,
southern France, Normandy,
would you all raise your
hand, any D-Day vets?
Raise it up high,
be proud of it.
There we go.
Outstanding.
What -- today on our
panel, we're going to talk
about the D-Day that
we're coming
up on the 60th Anniversary, a
week from Sunday, on June 6.
And the map up here on our --
on my right, your left,
shows the assault.
And if you will look to
your left on the map,
the first Beach is Utah Beach,
where the 4th Infantry Division
landed, and the Airborne Troops
for 101st Airborne and
82nd Airborne jumped
in behind you Utah Beach.
The next Beach over is Omaha
Beach, where the 29th Division
and the 1st Infantry
Division landed.
But there were lots of
other people involved
in D-Day besides
those divisions.
So, today, we've
got a unique blend.
On my right, we have Brigadier
General Retired Al Ungerleider,
who is our infantry
representative.
He landed with the
115th Infantry Regiment
of the 29th Infantry
Division on Omaha Beach,
so we'll hear his story.
Sitting next to me on my
left, we have a representative
from the Navy, Tracy Sugarman
was an ensign responsible
for the landing crafts,
so he was on Utah Beach,
bringing troops ashore.
In fact, he was there from
D-Day for a long time,
and he'll tell you
about that later.
And then also, making sure this
was a combined armed operation,
we had the Army Air
Corps involved.
And on my far left is Bob Punchy
Powell, who flew P-51s on D-Day
and for 81 other missions.
And it's interesting, out of
the three panelists and myself,
Tracy wrote a book that is very
interesting called, My War,
because he was also a -- is
also an artist and a sketch --
sketch artist and
has done great work.
This book is out of print,
so a used book stores is one
of the ways that
you can find it.
Bob wrote a book, The Blue-nosed
Bastards of Bodney, once again,
out of print, but you can
find it in used bookstores,
about a thousand
pictures in this book.
And I wrote a book called War
Stories, Utah Beach to Pleiku,
and we have about 100 pages
of 4th Infantry Division
Utah Beach stories.
Again, this book
is out of print.
So, if you want to look
for any of these books,
they're on used bookstores.
Now let's talk about
what happened.
D-Day was supposed
to have happened
on June 5th, so let's find out.
First, General Ungerleider,
how was it when you heard
out that you were going
to go, and this was D-Day?
>> General Alvin D.
Ungerleider: Good afternoon.
I told him that I can't
speak sitting down,
not before an audience.
Thank you very much.
[ Inaudible ]
It's a great pleasure for
me to be here and I will try
to describe in some
detail what was going
on at the beaches
that we landed on.
Firstly, the 29th Division,
which I was in, I don't hear
from Maryland, or
Virginia, or someplace go --
going by with the 29th Division
today, was all around you.
They came as a National Guard
Division activated to go to war
and they did a good job.
They did as well, I might say,
as any of the regular
Army Divisions
that landed on those beaches.
So, the 29th go in history
as being the only National Guard
Division to land on the 6th
of June on the beaches
of Normandy,
all the rest are
regular divisions
and supposedly better
trained and better manned
than a National Guard Division.
But believe you me,
we showed them
that the National
Guard can fight
as well as the Regular Army.
We proved it to them.
>> Amen.
[ Applause ]
>> General Alvin
D. Ungerleider: So,
what did the beaches look
like where we landed?
I'm not familiar with all
the beaches of the world
but it was sandy and
looked like a beach,
so we knew we were
in the right place.
As Bob mentioned, we were
originally supposed to go
in on 5 June of 1944, but
because of the rough seas --
and we were out in those rough
seas on these small boats
and boy, we were getting
sicker all the time.
But they held it off till the
6th, which was less rough,
but still it was a choppy
[inaudible] for any land.
But we made it all right and
were able to fight our way
against a determined
group of Germans
who were defending
those beaches.
We had artillery support
and we had best of all,
Naval gunfire support.
I don't know how many
Navy people were here,
but I gained more respect
for our United States
Navy on that day in 1944.
They done a marvelous job
of getting us on the beach
and seeing that we were
well supported by gunfire
after we got on the beach.
I don't know why they picked
out the area that we went in on,
but it certainly was
not an easy objective.
The land on the beach was
just flat for about 300
or 400 meters, and then
it started getting hillier
and then more forrestier
and we knew that we were
in for a tough battle
because the Germans were able
to hide behind the trees
and down in foxholes.
But, again, Navy gun supply
or support whenever we needed
it was available to us was --
came in in large
quantity to where
that made our job a
little bit easier.
We did lose men on going
in but not very many,
a lot of thanks goes
to the Navy.
What did we find when
we got on this beach?
We knew what we were
going to find.
They said it was sandy for about
400 yards, then heavily wooded
for quite a distance
inland from there.
So, we used our artillery
as best we could not to --
so much to hit the beach,
itself, because we had mortars
and machine guns that we
could take care of the beach,
but fire in the woodland
and fire beyond
to keep any reinforcements
from reaching us
on their own time schedule,
and that seemed to work.
We were able to get in.
Slow-going though,
through the heavy growth,
and sometimes our
progress was made --
measured by a few
hours of the day
that we were able to advance.
Other times, it was
a little more open
to where we could move
a little bit faster.
I don't know if you've ever
tried seeing through a woodland
or forest, it's not easy,
and we were not [inaudible].
But we had thousands and
thousands of men behind us,
shipload after shipload of men
ready to come in, as needed.
Our job was to make
it easier for them,
make it easier for ourselves.
But D-Day Normandy, that --
that section of Normandy where
we landed was rough terrain.
The Germans had taken good
advantage of the terrain.
They had deep foxholes,
and some branched off
to where they were able to
live down here, eat down there,
and then come up into her
foxhole when it was time
and [inaudible] something.
So, we did all this and as
I said, it was no speed race
and it was slow going, going in.
When we finally cleared
where the woodland was
and when we came to open
area, that was our objective,
to gain through the land
through this woodland
and then stop there and then
wait for the reinforcements.
This is what we did
and then the open land
that was behind the woodland was
heavily shelled every time U.S.
forces met, mounted an attack.
The question was, could we
hold on to this foothold
that we had gained on
the beaches of Normandy?
And again, it was very tenuous
because we're not in that far.
If the Germans had mounted
any kind of attack --
counterattack of any kind, it
would have been rough for us
to hold on and beat them back.
For some reason -- and I
don't know why, to this day --
and I'll bet -- I don't know
what the Germans are teaching
in their military schools as to
why they didn't counterattack,
it will never be known to me.
It was ideal for them
because as I said, open land,
moving into a little
woodland, they could have shell
that woodland day and night
until we were groggy
and then attack.
But for some reason, they didn't
do it, whether they thought
that the end of the war was
not too far off, I don't know.
But the fact that they didn't
counterattack saved the day
for the Americans have saved
the day for the Allied Forces
to gain that foothold
on this land
so that they could start
their march across Europe.
>> Bob Babcock: Sir,
appreciate that.
As we all see from these things,
we could talk for a long time.
In the short time we have,
I'm going to have to stop now.
We've heard the ground for a
bit, we're going to move on.
This is a part -- the hard
part about being a moderator,
I love listening
to these stories,
but we don't have
time to go on and on.
So, why don't -- let's
stop your story now,
we'll come back to you later.
So, let's talk now because while
-- as General Ungerleider said,
the Navy, he got
great respect for,
and I think everybody had
great respect to the Navy.
So, for -- next, I'd like
to hear from Tracy Sugarman,
who was on Utah Beach,
the beach off --
on the far end, not
on the same Beach
where General Ungerleider was.
Tracy, talk about
your experiences.
[ Applause ]
>> Tracy Sugarman:
Thank you very much.
It's interesting, you come to
a point in your life where --
where you -- you
have become history
and we all feel a
little bit like relics.
Okay, I think we may be
relics, but we do own a lot
of very green memories of times
when we were really very young.
I think it's interesting to
realize that when you look
at the old timers, like
those of us up on the stage,
that when we were doing what
we're being celebrated for,
that we were 21, we were
22, or 23-years-old.
I was a small boat
officer in charge of LCVPs,
which were those
open-ended boats that you saw
in Saving Private Ryan.
And our main mission -- the
mission of the boats that I was
in charge of was to
carry Army people,
like General Ungerleider,
and those --
those guys who had to then
wade out from our boats,
sometimes in 5 and 6 feet
of water, under heavy packs,
even with gear against
gas, because at that point,
we weren't sure whether
the Germans were going
to gas the beaches.
And to watch those
Army guys wade ashore
and then fight their way from
the beaches made memories for me
that I will never forget.
They are enormously brave
people who fight our wars.
And what I think is good for
everybody here to remember
and to note even
today is the kids
who are fighting
for us are kids.
Those are kids, 17, 18,
19, 20-year-old kids,
and we should feel for them,
and we should support
them in every way we can.
[ Applause ]
I was enormously grateful for
the Army that I carried ashore
to carry on the fighting.
I was enormously grateful also
for people like Bob over here
who were flying air
support over our beach.
If those guys were not
doing their job, our --
our job on the beach would have
been enormously more difficult.
The fact that the
Germans did not show
up often didn't mean they
didn't show up at all.
We were strafed on the
beach; my boats were shot up.
Happily, none of
my men were lost.
But the Germans were there,
German 88 shells kept landing
on Utah Beach on and off
for weeks after D-Day.
I hit the beach on D-Day and
was assigned to port direction
of Utah Beach and I was on
that damn beach until November
when I closed it with two other
junior officers and I was never
so happy to leave a
square yard of sand.
I had seen a lot of death, a lot
of destruction, a lot of bravery
on one little piece of beach.
And one little piece of beach
is all that I ever really saw
of the war in combat, but
I saw it in enough depth
to know it's a good thing not
to have if you can avoid one.
I'd like to talk a lot more,
but I don't think I
have that much time.
Thank you.
>> Bob Babcock: Thank
you, Tracy.
And let me put in a
little commercial for those
of you listening right now
because Tracy I think
said it very well,
every person had a small slice
of beach, or a small slice
of forest, or a small slice of
the home front, and every one
of you have a thread in
the mosaic that makes
up American history
in World War II.
It is critically important that
each of those threads get woven
and preserved into this mosaic
so future generations can
understand what the Greatest
Generation did for us.
So, I don't care how
insignificant you think your job
might have been, you
deserve to tell it, and we,
as a country, deserve
to hear it.
Now let's talk about --
[ Applause ]
We've heard from the ground,
we've heard from the sea,
and now we've got the guys
flying around in their P-51s.
Bob Punchy Powell is a
man that I interviewed
for the Veterans History
Project a little over a year
and a half ago and I've been
fascinated with him ever since.
So, Punchy, talk about the
16 hours you spent on D-Day.
>> Bob Powell: Thank you, Bob.
D-Day, as you know, is called
the longest day and for me,
it was a long day also,
and for our group.
I was very privileged
to fly with a --
an outstanding fighter group,
the 352nd Fighter Group.
We were called the
Blue-nosed Bastards
of Bodney by the Germans.
The -- on D-Day morning, we
came -- we -- we took off --
made a night takeoff, which
we had never done in combat.
Our -- we went out by squadrons,
we had three squadrons,
and each squadron went
out about an hour apart.
And we spent -- we -- our first
mission was to put up a wall
of airplanes, a total
wall of airplanes,
from treetop level
to 30,000 feet.
No German fighter pilot in
Luftwaffe had the nerve to try
to come through that wall.
Our second mission --
by the way we had up --
over a thousand fighters
at that time.
One of our biggest dangers
was running into each other.
But on our second mission, our
mission was a little different,
we were told that the French
people had been advised not
to get on any of the roads, the
highways, the roads, anything.
If they wanted to do anything,
they had to go across the fields
because anything that moved
on the roads toward the
beachheads were fair game,
were targets of opportunity
for us.
We were each given a sector --
assigned a sector that we were
to patrol and if anything
moved on those roads --
I'm talking about trucks,
buses, even dispatch riders
on motorcycles, anything
that moved toward the
beachhead was fair game.
We were very successful in that,
we didn't lose many airplanes.
We lost a few from ground
fire, but not too many during
that particular period.
During the next several days
we lost a number of them.
My group destroyed --
during World War II,
destroyed 776 German airplanes.
[ Applause ]
We had 29 aces, including
the leading Mustang Ace
at World War II George Preddy.
He was killed on Christmas
Day by friendly fire.
But on D-Day, most all of us
flew 16 hours, three missions.
And if you can imagine being in
a small cockpit, like a P-51,
with your legs about in
this position for 16 hours,
with a break, of course, when
you went back and refueled
and rearmed, I was
so stiff on my --
after my third mission
that I could not get
out of the airplane
and I was 21-years-old.
My crew chief and my armor got
up on each wing and lifted me
up out of the cockpit and
set me down on the way,
so it was a long, grueling day.
But let me say this, as we
passed over the beaches,
we could see the thousands of
ships -- I don't know how many,
but they were everywhere
underneath us,
and we could see the men
moving forward on the beaches,
I had the greatest
empathy, and still have,
for the courage of those men.
Compared to them, my job on
D-Day was a piece of cake,
at least that night, I slept in
a cot, they slept in a foxhole,
if they slept at all, and
many of them slept forever.
Thank you.
[ Applause ]
>> Bob Babcock: Thank you, Bob.
There's some very interesting
perspectives and as I've talked
to these gentlemen up here,
every one of them has upmost
respect for the other,
and I think that's what makes
America such a great country is
that it takes all of us
to do the job, right?
An old infantryman myself,
I have absolute respect
for those guys, yeah,
they get to sleep on cots,
but at least we don't have
to worry about running
into each other up in the
air, like you guys do.
And you guys are
bringing the ships ashore.
You know, we landed once.
You know, Al landed once.
How many times did you land?
You landed a bunch of times.
So, everybody has a
very important role.
So, what I want to do now --
and I want to throw this open
to questions here in a minute,
but first, I'm just going
to bounce back around
for another short story.
So, Tracy, what [inaudible]
what didn't you tell us
in your initial comments
that you could tell
us a short story --
Bob, be thinking
of a short story.
Al, be thinking of
a short story.
And then we'll throw it
open to your questions.
>> Tracy Sugarman: The only --
the only short thing I'd like --
I'd like to bring up is
good fortune, good luck,
and I think anybody who's been
in the service knows the role
that good fortune plays.
You can -- you can play your
cards as carefully as you want
but you are being moved around.
You are being used and
you're doing your job
as well as you can.
The night before D-Day on our
ship, the skipper called me
and the other small boat
officer, two youngest ensigns
on the ship, and he said, we're
hitting the beach tomorrow,
only one of you is
going with me --
one of you is leaving this
ship with the small boats
and hitting Utah Beach.
The other one is staying on the
ship with me and we're going
down for the invasion of
Nice in southern France.
And he said, I want you two guys
to flip a coin and see who comes
with me and who stays
here in Normandy.
And I flipped a coin
with my buddy
and I got what I thought
was the tough duty,
I was hitting Utah Beach.
He went down with the ship to
Nice, it was a piece of cake.
It was an easy invasion and the
skipper of the ship asked him,
the other small boat
officer, to fly off and pick
up the ship's mail
in southern France.
And the plane was shot
down and he was lost.
I went through a rough time
in Normandy but I'm here
to talk to you in 2004.
So, good luck has
an awful lot to do
with coming out of a war intact.
>> Bob Babcock: Thank
you, Tracy.
That is -- that --
that is a fact.
I think everybody can probably
tell you about that there.
But for the grace
of God, go I, right?
And you know what?
I think you ought to be
the mayor of Utah Beach.
Nobody stayed longer
on Utah than you did.
I'm going to be over there next
week for the 60th Anniversary,
I'm going to make
sure the folks know
that you spent more
time there than anybody.
Bob, give me a quick,
short story.
>> Bob Powell: Well, I
would just want to say
that our first casualty on
D-Day happened about 30 seconds
after we gave the throttle
to our -- to our --
the first squadron gave
its throttles to take off.
What -- we -- this
was a night takeoff
and the first four
airplanes to take off --
we took off in in
fours, 15 feet apart.
And the first airplane land
up wrong and the set --
the third airplane struck a
new tower that was being built
on the field and blew up.
The rest of us took off by the
fire of his burning airplane.
>> Bob Babcock: Interesting
stories.
Okay, now Al, give
us a short story.
>> General Alvin D.
Ungerleider: Both of my friends
over here talked about a piece
of cake, I'm getting hungry.
I'm trying to think of something
I can tell you of interest.
Omaha Beach is really a
place you should visit
when you go back to France.
Anybody in Paris will show you
the way and they're very proud
to show the beach because
here it is 60 years later,
and they -- the people
of Normandy particularly
love the Americans.
Whatever you've heard about
France and whatever you've heard
about the way they've been
battling our government,
don't apply that to
the people of Normandy.
They love the Americans
and each time --
as I said, when we go back, they
wine us, they dine us, they --
just as much as they can to help
us enjoy our time while they're
over there.
>> Bob Babcock: Thank you, Al.
You know, people ask
me what I did on D-Day
and I was 10 months old
and I don't remember,
so I'm not that old, even
though I may look at old,
so I don't have a
D-Day story to tell.
Do any of you have questions?
Because D-Day has been
fascinating to me all my life,
ever since I was wrote a term
paper on it in high school.
Do we have a microphone
somewhere
so that we can get a question
or -- yeah, use this one.
And we got a man right down
there that has a question.
>> Thank you.
This is a question
for Bob Powell.
After D-Day, where was the first
airfield that you established
and landed in Normandy?
>> Bob Powell: Actually,
my group did not move
over to the continent
until about December,
around the Battle of the
Bulge time, when we moved
about 15 miles from
the frontlines.
However, because the
9th Air Force took
over the ground support
stuff and they --
they had their airfields
in France flying P-47s,
but we did not -- our -- we
continued to fly out of Bodney,
England and both on strafing
missions, strafing airports,
and so forth, and
escorting our bombers.
We went back to our
primary mission,
which was at escorting
our bombers.
But when we finished escorting
the bombers, if we were not
out of fuel and not out of
ammunition, we would go down
and shoot up airfields,
and trains, and trucks,
and anything else that might
help the Germans against us.
>> Bob Babcock: Thank you.
Does anyone else
have a question?
Right down here.
>> This is for Tracy Sugarman.
Tracy, we heard you give
the proper tribute to all
who participated, on the home
front, as well as overseas,
but will you share
with us a little
about your personal experience.
You had a new bride
back in the States,
the kids on your
ship were very young.
How important really was
support for you and them
from this family
on the home front?
>> Tracy Sugarman: It
was absolutely total.
Getting mail from home was
all the difference in -- in --
in whether you made
it comfortably
through a day or a night again.
It was vital and that's
a very interesting
that you bring that up.
What mail meant during World
War II, it may be very hard
to comprehend due
to a young audience.
When my wife June, my new
bride, would write me a letter,
if it found me at all, it
took two weeks to get to me.
I would answer it and if
it was any luck at all,
two weeks later, she got it.
Meanwhile, she had
been writing every day,
I had been writing every day.
And by the time you got
an answer to a letter
or a question, you don't
remember what the question was.
And it was -- it was
so different than now,
where someone in Iraq can
pick up the phone where he is
and check in with home and
see if he has any email,
it's instantaneous, which
means it makes the whole frame
of reference different.
We were really overseas,
we were away.
I'm not sure the kids today
ever feel they're really
that removed.
>> Bob Babcock: Just as
an aside, before we get
to the next question, the book
that Tracy wrote is a
combination of his drawings
and of the letters that he wrote
his wife, and this is available
on the Veterans History Project
website, a lot of the pictures
and a lot of the letters.
And I read it on the
airplane coming up yesterday
and it's fascinating,
so I encourage you to go
out onto the Veterans
History Project website,
look for Tracy Sugarman,
and you'll find this,
it's fascinating reading.
Next question.
>> This question is for the
gentleman over here on my left.
When you landed on
Omaha Beach, eventually,
did you encounter any French
resistance people to help
with this D-Day invasion
of ours?
>> General Alvin D. Ungerleider:
In case you didn't hear the
question, did we encounter any
of the French resistance groups.
The answer is yes, they
were almost waiting there
for us to land.
They were in great
shape, a great strength,
and we integrated them as
much as we could into --
with us we even launched an
attack with them to go forward.
And they were a great help
because they knew the land
so much better than we did.
>> Bob Babcock: What
other questions?
Here's one, right
over to this lady.
>> My father was a surgeon
attached to the troops
that landed on Utah Beach
and one thing I've never
understood is how did the
medical attachments land?
I mean they didn't come
in -- I'm assuming --
with the frontline
troops, did they?
I've just never understood,
you know, what --
where they were in the
battlefield, you know,
landing on the beach that day.
>> General Alvin D. Ungerleider:
I might be able to answer
that better than our medical
man on the panel here they.
The -- the eight men that
we had were indispensable,
that's the word I -- comes
immediately in my mind.
They did their job well,
they were there when needed,
and saved many, many,
many lives.
My hat's off to the medics.
>> Bob Babcock: And to further
carry on that answer to you,
the medics went in -- was
your father a surgeon?
The battalion surgeons were
not on the front waves,
but they were pretty close.
And if your father was on
Utah Beach, I'd love to talk
to you afterwards because my
division -- the 4th Division --
I know a lot of people
that were medical on that.
Next question.
>> A question for
General Ungerleider.
First, thank you for your
service to the country
and to all the others
on the panel.
General --
[ Applause ]
General, can you tell us what
rank you were at the time
and then secondly, when
you hit the beach yourself?
And thirdly, if you don't
mind, as I understand it,
it was the Ranger Battalion
that was taking the cliffs
on Omaha Beach, how in the world
did they ever manage that feat?
>> General Alvin D.
Ungerleider: Well,
let me answer the last part
of that question first.
They had the ropes with hooks
on them that they could fire up
and the hooks would hold on
to someplace on the cliff
and then they just
climbed up the rope,
I wouldn't want to
do that, for sure.
They -- they did a fantastic
job, as did everybody there.
And what was the other
part of your question?
>> Just what rank -- what
rank were you at the time?
>> General Alvin D. Ungerleider:
Oh, I was a young Shavetail
out of OCS six months.
Shavetail, for those
of you who don't know,
is a brand new second
lieutenant.
>> Thank you very much.
>> Tracy Sugarman: I'd just
like to add a little bit
about what it was like on
Omaha to go up that cliff.
I was over at Utah
Beach but about 10 days
after the invasion, I
went over to Omaha Beach
because there was an airstrip at
the top of the beach and I had
to go back and get some
material for my crews.
I was 22-years-old, I was in
good shape, nobody was shooting
at me, and I was
carrying nothing.
And it took me 25 minutes
just to climb up that cliff.
So, if you can imagine what
it meant under total fire
from all sides of the beach,
for those Rangers and those --
those Army guys, to go up,
is something I have never,
never stopped wondering at.
>> Bob Babcock: Okay,
next question.
Back at the back,
or you got one here?
Okay.
>> It's been talked
about how young you were
when D-Day occurred and also
about how it was different --
different time and
different place.
I'm figuring that 21-,
22-year-olds in that time,
many in their U.S. cities
hadn't been to another city even
in the U.S., what was it
like to all of a sudden have
to fight this war, go
into France for kids
that had never even been
to the town next door?
>> Bob Babcock: Let's
let a guy who was
from West Virginia
answer that one.
>> Bob Powell: Well, being a
hillbilly from West Virginia,
I didn't know what was on the
other side of the mountain
until I got in the Air Force.
And it really was -- it
really was an adventure
to suddenly be given the
responsibility of flying a --
at that time, a $50,000
airplane that now sells
for over a million -- in combat,
it was character building.
It -- I grew from a
boy to a man overnight.
As Churchill said, the biggest
thrill that you can have
in life is to be shot at and
missed, and I agree with that.
>> Bob Babcock: Okay,
we've got time
for about two more questions.
The man back there in
the back has had his hand
up for a long time.
>> This is -- sorry.
This is for General Ungerleider.
I remember reading a lot
about Omaha Beach on D-Day
and was impressed by the fact
that there were individuals
who took the initiative to
help get the companies off
of the beach and up the
draws -- or up the bluffs.
And one particular individual
was Brigadier General Norman
Cota, who I think a lot
of people saw display his
bravery throughout that morning.
And I was wondering if you --
he was assistant division
of commander I believe
of the 29th Infantry Division --
and I was wondering if you
had any recollection of him,
or if there were any other
particular individuals
that you recall who displayed
particular acts of heroism
to help get people off
the beach that day.
>> General Alvin D. Ungerleider:
General Cota was the assistant
division commander on D-Day.
He later command of other
divisions as a major general.
What you heard was true.
I think he got the Medal of
Honor for what he did on D-Day.
He was going up and
down the beach.
Don't stay here, you -- if
you're going to get killed,
get killed going up the hill.
Don't stay here.
And that was his favorite
saying, don't stay here.
And a lot of these young fellows
-- when the Major General says,
don't stay here -- I'm sorry
-- a Brigadier General says,
don't stay here,
they get up and move.
>> Bob Babcock: Last question,
who's going to ask it?
Right here.
Then Ellen, I'll let you
have one, you're the boss.
>> I just wanted to ask about,
you know, I know we're supposed
to be talking about D-Day,
but it seems to me that there's
so much more to the story
because D-Day was
not the end of it.
You had still so much to
go through from there on.
I wonder if anybody wanted to
comment about the long struggle
to get back Normandy
from the beach.
>> Bob Babcock: Say again,
I didn't hear your
last part of that.
>> I just wanted to know if
anybody wanted to comment
about the long struggle
that continued
after the beach because
you still
had to get Normandy
back from that point,
it wasn't just landing.
There was so much
more out of that.
>> Bob Babcock: That is a great
question but we're not going
to answer it because it will
take too long seriously,
because all of them can
talk about their experiences
for the next -- the
rest of the war.
You were wounded about eight
days later, weren't you?
On the 20th of June, he was
wounded, came back into action.
Bob flew 81 missions.
Tracy spent until November
on Utah Beach, then he went
on to another ship
ferrying troops.
So, we don't have time
at this [inaudible].
But now, Ellen, let's
ask your question.
>> Ellen McCulloch Lovell:
Each one of you has told us
a story today and each one
of you has told your
story that will
now become part of history
because it's in the archives
of the Library of Congress.
And I'd just like some brief
reflections on what is it
like to share this
part of your life
with the world 60 years later?
>> Bob Babcock: Great,
Bob start.
>> Bob Powell: This has been a
great thrill and I think I am
so convinced that
our young people
and our future generations
should know about World War II.
I had the experience in Atlanta
of making a talk at a school
at which the teacher said
she was teaching a class
on World War 11.
I determined at that
time that I had
better spend some
time teaching people
about what really
happened in World War II
and I've dedicated many years
since the war doing just that.
>> Bob Babcock: Great.
Tracy.
[ Applause ]
>> Tracy Sugarman: Well, being
here is just a great joy,
and to be able to share
a little of what we went
through as younger people
with older people
now is really great.
It's a particular joy
to share it with kids.
And whenever I'm invited to
a high school, or a college,
or anywhere where there are
young people who really want
to talk about what the war
was, not the romance of it,
but what it -- what
it really is like,
I feel a terrible
responsibility to say yes,
and usually I try to do that.
I think it's important
that those of us
who fought share what
that reality of war is
about because the movies are
movies, and it's important
that those of us who
know the truth talk
about the truth as we lived it.
And I'm very grateful to
the Veterans History Project
for making me part
of that process.
>> Bob Babcock: Thank
you, Tracy.
And even though I'm
not a World War II vet,
I will answer this
question myself
because as a Vietnam
rifle platoon leader,
I also have my story told and
in Veterans History Project
and I agree with what
these gentlemen have said.
The education we can give to our
young people is very important,
so I encourage you Korean
War vets, you Vietnam vets,
you Somalia, you Desert Storm,
your Afghanistan, you Iraq,
all of you tell your stories.
And equally as important, the
home front workers, the wives,
the sweethearts, the factory
workers, whoever helped in any
of our war efforts, get
your story preserved.
I spent an hour and a half on
Tuesday of this week talking
to a group of eighth graders
for the sixth year in a row
about Vietnam and
they're fascinated by it
because that's ancient history
and World War II is even
more ancient history.
Al, what do you think
about being part
of the Veterans History Project?
>> General Alvin D.
Ungerleider: This --
this is my first experience with
your project being here today.
I had -- I'm sorry I had to
say that but that's true.
>> Bob Babcock: [Inaudible],
talk in the mic.
>> General Alvin D.
Ungerleider: Oops.
I got to talk fast
because he shows a sign
that says one minute.
I have to repeat what the
gentleman said the pleasure
that we get out of going to
a school, or a civic group,
or any organization that's
looking for a free speaker
that they don't have to pay,
they call -- they call on us,
and we always respond because
we do get great joy out of it.
We feel that World War
II is rapidly sinking
down into the well of history
and if we don't help keep it
alive while we're still alive,
nobody else will.
And I'll keep doing that as
long as I am physically capable.
>> Bob Babcock: Thank you, Al.
And thank you, Bob.
And thank you, Tracy.
This has been a -- an
interesting discussion.
And grab one of these guys
and talk to them later.
And once again, before
you leave,
let me tell you one thing, if
you are an American veteran
of any war or if you supported
America's veterans in any way,
you owe it to yourself, your
family, your country to preserve
that thread of this great
tapestry called American
history, so please sign up
and get your Veterans History
Project interview done.
And I'm going to go interview
a Medal of Honor recipient here
in 15 minutes, I am thrilled.
Thank you.
[ Applause ]
>> This has been a presentation
of the Library of Congress.
Visit us at loc.gov.