>> From the Library of Congress in Washington D.C. >> Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur: Welcome. Good Afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Good to have you here. My name is Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur. I am the senior member of my party, who's a woman in the House of Representatives. And I come from Ohio's Ninth District, which is along the Southern rim of Lake Eire, between Toledo and Cleveland. I'm the member that authored the bill to create the World War Two Memorial, here in our nation's capital, 17 years ago. [ Applause ] So, believe me, our welcome to you is very warm and very heart felt. Seventeen years ago, a veteran from Ohio named Roger Durban [assumed spelling], came up to me at a township trustees annual meeting. He actually shouted across the room like this. And he said, "Congresswoman Kaptur, why is there no World War Two Memorial in Washington, where I can bring my grandchildren?" And I tried to find him in this crowd. And all of a sudden, I spotted him way over on the other side of the room, standing there, feet firmly planted, square jawed. Looking right at me with those twinkling eyes. And I said, "Well, sir, I think there is one." He goes, "Oh, yeah, what is it?" And I said, "Well, sir, I think it's Iwo Jima." He said, "Wrong." He said, "That is to one battle and one service." And I then approached him and we began to talk. And as a result, we are here today. Unfortunately, Mr. Durban passed in the year of 2000. He so wanted to be here. And I know his spirit is with us. But his grandchildren will be here tomorrow. And his granddaughter will be sitting with us on the podium, when we formally dedicate the memorial tomorrow. Now, I'm here this afternoon to let you know that in the year of 2000, Congress created the Veterans History Project. This tent and all of the Library of Congress personnel, who are interviewing veterans and those who served on the home front, are moving across the plaza and around the mall today and tomorrow. Collecting hundreds and hundreds of stories. This is the largest oral project, oral history project, in the history of our country. The Legislation itself and the project, envisioned broad based community participation. You are evidence of that, here today. We are in the process of enlisting hundreds of thousands of ordinary Americans, including school children, boy scouts, girl scouts. Service organizations, women's groups, community groups and others, to engage Americas veterans in conversations for the record. And to record these conversations, both in audio and video. And all that precious information will then be stored permanently in the Library of Congress for future generations to enjoy, appreciate and analyze. So, truly, this will be Americas record for our children and grandchildren and great grandchildren, into the generations to come. I wanted to stop by here today, before I go to do additional interviews, after this. Not only because Venus Ramey, Miss America, 1944 is here! [ Applause ] But also, to lend my support to this truly important project. And to express my enthusiasm for the Veterans History Project and to make sure you all tell your family stories. And the stories of thousands of people who live in your communities across this country. Now, in moving the program forward, let me introduce Tom Swope and Venus Ramey, Miss America, 1944. God bless you and thank you for being here today! Tom. [ Applause ] >> Tom Swope: Thank you. So, here we go, ladies and gentlemen, Miss America 1944, Venus Ramey. [ Music ] >> Venus Ramey: Can you hear the piano? [piano music]. Okay. [ Music ] Electronics. Thank you, I'm Miss America. And frankly, I live in a home for old Miss Americas. They try to keep us hidden from the public. When they get old and wrinkled like me, they say we're bad for their image [brief laughter]. I think that when you get old enough to collect Social Security, you should forget your image and start worrying about your liver [brief laughter]. Anyway, I escaped and I know they're out looking for me now. So, before they find me, I want to tell you what I really think about beauty contests. [ Music ] I belong to the very, very neat, elite group of girls. Some folks think we're very, very sweet. And the U.S.A.'s own girls. We're all well versed in gentile ways and ladylike decorum. And only one is added to our ranks each year in Atlantic City forum. And here I am, Miss America. A heck of a hunk of fluffy profiteer. If you are Miss America, you're always sweet and kind and never rude. We must never sneeze or anything so vulgar. If a fly crawls up our nose, we snuff it down [brief laughter]. Here I am, Miss America. A heck of hunk of fluffy profiteer. You know, I never... [ Cheers and Applause ] I never shall forget the night I won that cup in Atlantic City. Ma and Pa, they were so thrilled. Both of them waited up. Ma said, "Gee, honey, you look so pretty, I just can't believe my eyes." And Pa, he took one look at my bathing suit and spanked the shake that won the prize. But it's nice to be Miss America. Folks used to look at me and stare at me, when I went out to places. But the trouble is, they stared at every place, but where the face is. Ah, the family was all a twitter, when I won the contest. Everybody except cousin Elmo. Elmo never gets excited about anything. Cousin Leo said, "Elmo, cousin Venus is Miss America, why aren't you excited like the rest of us?" "What's wrong with you, don't you like bathing beauties?" Cousin Elmo said, "I don't know, I never bathed one." [brief laughter]. Cousin Elmo and his wife called me a couple of years ago. I live on a farm down in Kentucky. And they called me and they said, "Our grandson, Clovis, is in a high school where they're dealing drugs out of their lockers and he's gotten into a bad group." "And we'd like to get him away from this." "Can we send him down to the farm to you for the summer?" I said, "Sure, send him on down." That year I learned a lot about the young generation. Clovis wore his hair down to his elbows and shaved under his arms. Cousin Leo, went into the Air Force the year I won the contest and they put him in the parachute corp. Leo told me the first time he jumped out of a plane he counted, like you're supposed to. And when he pulled the cord the chute didn't open. So, while he was praying that the auxiliary chute would open, he looked down to earth to see where he was going to land. And there came a man from earth down up towards him. So, when they got about it, Leo yelled, "Hey, do you know anything about parachutes?" And the fellow yelled back, "No!" "Do you know anything about Bala Gas [assumed spelling] Stoves?" [piano music]. If one is Miss America, when all we date is a wealthy millionaire. If one is Miss America, one never dies in dirty underwear. Even though my bodies gotten old and scrawny, I have a wrinkled face and it worked with a bottle of color. I have silver in my hair. Still in all, I'm Miss America. And I'll be her until the day I die. I can't lose the tag no matter how I try. Miss America's realize that their life is all gone past. When they wake up in the morning and their teeth are in a glass. I'm a heck of a hunk of fluffy profiteer. [ Applause ] >> Tom Swope: Well, I don't know how we can follow that. Miss America, I'm the envy of everyone here. Where were you living in 1941? >> Venus Ramey: Well, I -- does this work? I graduated from high school in 1941. I went to Cincinnati -- I graduated from down in Kentucky. I went to 13 different schools in ten years. And so, I graduated in Kentucky. And I went up to Cincinnati, Ohio, where my mother lived. I had gone to school there some, too, in 1942. >> Tom Swope: Before we get to that, did you have specific memories of December 7th, 1941? >> Venus Ramey: Well, yes, definitely. I was in school. And I lived in a little town of 300 people. And I had an apartment at a home with an old lady and her daughter. And they heard on the radio that everyone -- the government decreed that everyone should have a bucket of sand at their backdoor and a shovel. So, the daughter got a shovel and she got a bucket of sand and put it at her backdoor. This town -- in case the Germans bombed them, you know, this town had 300 people. It's the last place they would have bombed. But that's how attentive people got all of sudden, during World War Two. >> Tom Swope: Now, before you became Miss America, for at least a couple of years there, the World War was going on, of course. Did you get involved in the war efforts? >> Venus Ramey: Very much. I was in beauty contest, after beauty contest. I started beauty contest when I was 14. So, in that activity, you got a lot of pictures taken to put in the paper. And I was in a blood drive and they took pictures of me, showing what you should eat before you donated blood. And what you shouldn't eat. And that was in the paper. And I sold bonds and I -- across the river in Cincinnati, there's a place called Fort Campbell. And I went over there and entertained the boys in the Fort. And I also volunteered with the USO there in Cincinnati for the boys, when they came, the GI's. >> Tom Swope: And eventually you ended up in Washington, D.C. >> Venus Ramey: Well, in a round about way. I got into show business and went down to -- as a chorus girl, down to Jacksonville, Florida. And danced in a place called the "Showboat." It was on Saint Johns River. An interesting place. And they took the show out to the naval airport, the Naval Base out there. And we performed for them. And they invited us to the mess hall afterwards. I'd never been in the [inaudible]. The whole show they lied. And after two years, rationing of sugar, coffee, tea and a lot of things were so scarce you couldn't even ration them. Everybody was hungry. So, I had -- they had talked about [inaudible] chow, about how bad it was, you know, soldiers complained. These people in this mess had steak, gravy, potatoes, all kinds of vegetables. All kinds of salad, good desserts. It was the best mess I ever saw. And I ate like a horse. And we all did. And then I was transferred to Washington D.C., as a chorus girl. And I entered the Miss Cover Girl contest here, that Columbia pictures put on. And you can actually -- the picture "Cover Girl" with Rita Hayworth and Gene Kelly. And I won that. And there was a group that picked up -- had a bus come around every week at a certain location. And asked the beauty contestants if we would be there. And so, we had evening gowns and all dolled up in makeup. And they would haul us out to Bethesda Hospital there, the Naval Hospital one week. And the next week, they'd alternate to Walter Reed General Hospital. And we would walk around with a basket in our arms full of cigarettes. The cigarette companies donated free cigarettes to the boys. And we'd talk to them. Some of them were in very -- they had terrible wounds and some were amputees. And we'd talk to them personally about where they came from. And I know that raised their spirits, a bunch of gorgeous dames in their evening gowns and all that, coming around at 2:00 in the afternoon. And then I won the Miss Washington D.C. contest. And then I went to Atlantic City and won that. >> Tom Swope: What was that wartime Miss America Pageant like? Is it different from the peacetime pageants? >> Venus Ramey: Oh, much different. We only took over the Convention Hall in Atlantic City. And made it into England General Hospital. And so, they had the contest in the Warner Theatre. I think it only held five or six or seven thousand people. So, we didn't have nearly the -- we didn't have the ramp that would come out, you know, you'd walk on, like they do today. And we didn't have as many people. But they had that for two years. And then they went back to the Convention Center. >> Tom Swope: And we've seen one of your talents. Was that the talent that you had during the Miss America Pageant? >> Venus Ramey: No. I did a rumba and I sang, "Take it Easy." I composed a verse for it. I was living in New York trying to model. No, no, this was after I had finished modeling. But I went to New York to get some costumes and clothes for the pageant. And so, I composed a verse -- "Take it Easy" hadn't been written with a verse, only a chorus. And I composed a verse for it. And I got -- went into a drugstore, I decided to do it in Spanish. I went into a drugstore and got a Spanish dictionary. And I had taken one year of Spanish in high school. And I got in a streetcar and rode it to the end of the line and came back. And I had the chorus translated in Spanish, by the time I got back. And I'm the first girl who ever sang in a foreign language in the contest. And I translated it myself. I wouldn't guarantee about the grammatical errors they're in. >> Tom Swope: And what was your one wish for the world? It should be obvious during the war. But what was your one wish for the world, when the pageants emcee asked the girls that? >> Venus Ramey: My one wish for the? >> Tom Swope: The one wish. Didn't they do that back then in 1944? >> Venus Ramey: No. >> Tom Swope: If you could have one wish? Remember that? >> Venus Ramey: No. >> Tom Swope: It must be my generation. We do have some slides here. >> Venus Ramey: Yeah, well, they always wished for peace on earth, you know. >> Tom Swope: Yeah, of course. >> Venus Ramey: The Bible says we never will get it. And I believe it [brief laughter]. >> Tom Swope: What are we looking at over here? >> Venus Ramey: Well, that was taken in -- by Bruno Hollywood in New York, after I won the contest. >> Tom Swope: All right, let's look at the next one here. You can go ahead to the next slide now. Oh! >> Venus Ramey: Oh, that's when I won the Miss Washington contest. That picture was in the Weekly Standard, about five years ago. >> Tom Swope: Now, from what I understand, isn't that a little bit racy for that time, to be wearing a two piece like that? >> Venus Ramey: They had come -- no, I wore two-piece suits. I have pictures of me when I was 15. So, they had come out. No, they weren't racy. They were covered up more than they are today, come on [brief laughter]. >> Tom Swope: Let's look at the next slide now. >> Venus Ramey: That was when I won the contest in Atlantic City. >> Tom Swope: Mm-hmm. >> Venus Ramey: The crown was different then. >> Tom Swope: Do they let you keep the crown? Probably not. >> Venus Ramey: Oh, no, no. They used them over and over, in those days. It was cheaper that way. >> Tom Swope: Do you still have your sash? >> Venus Ramey: Yes, yes. But it's, you know, after 60 years, it's just about in bad shape as I am. >> Tom Swope: Well, let's go to the next slide. Oh, my. >> Venus Ramey: Ah. And that's the first colored picture ever taken of a Miss America. We didn't get color photography until after the war. And that was in December, '44. And it showed in January of 1945, in the Roto section of the Courier Journal in Louisville. I played a theatre there and the Courier Journal took it. All of the magazines in the day were illustrate -- the front covers were illustrated, Saturday Evening Post, Collier's. And Look and Life came out black and white. But none of the magazines had color photos. And that didn't come until -- in fact, many of the Miss Americas don't have -- in several years, didn't have any color photos. >> Tom Swope: How many covers do you think you did back there? >> Venus Ramey: How many? >> Tom Swope: How many covers do you think you did in the '40's? >> Venus Ramey: Oh, not too many. I wasn't the type of model that they wanted. The model that Bazaar, Harper's Bazaar and Vogue wanted, they all looked like they had tuberculosis. And I didn't look like that. I didn't look tubercular. >> Tom Swope: A little curvy for that? >> Venus Ramey: Yeah, exactly, a little curvy, right. >> Tom Swope: Now, was it at this point when the servicemen were starting to put you up there as a pinup girl? >> Venus Ramey: It happened around the same time. That was -- when I got on the plane, it was 19, about October of 1944. So, that was a little bit after that. >> Tom Swope: Let's go ahead to the next slide. Okay, what's this? >> Venus Ramey: That's when I was -- oh, that's when I gave up the crown. See the statue of Venus in the back? They did that in my honor. You see the statue of Venus in the background? >> Tom Swope: Right, right, yeah. Okay. Any more you have about that? >> Venus Ramey: No. >> Tom Swope: Next slide. >> Venus Ramey: I was glad to give it up, frankly. >> Tom Swope: Next slide. >> Venus Ramey: Now, there was Mr. Waller from Hamilton National Bank in Washington, who gave me a citation for selling five million dollars' worth of war bonds. >> Tom Swope: What were those bond drives? [ Applause ] Did you do a lot of touring around the country on bond drives? >> Venus Ramey: Yes. The -- he had arranged it with -- the Treasury Department, rather, made arrangements with me. And whenever -- I played vaudeville in the theatres. And whenever I was going to be in a certain town, I would let them know. And if there was a bond rally, they had me appear there. And that's the way I did it. >> Tom Swope: Anything particularly unusual or fun happen, while you were on the road on those tours? >> Venus Ramey: I'd have to write a book. >> Tom Swope: Well, let's hear some of those stories. Give a little away, just to help book sales. >> Venus Ramey: Okay. In Jersey City, New Jersey, I played -- most of the vaudeville theatres in those days, vaudeville was really its last gas. And I helped it die. But in -- most of them had round boxes on either side of the stage. Some of them did two floors and some had three floors. They had boxes on top of each other. And you could almost touch a stage -- touch the actors, you know, when the vaudeville box. And there was a story in vaudeville about -- out of Washington State. One time a comic was on and a fellow in one of those boxes laughed so hard his teeth fell out on the stage. But the most unusual thing that happened to me with it -- this was an old theatre in Jersey City. And Andy Russell was the star. So, he was supposed to -- my agent had put me in and I was 19 years old. And he put -- the only way -- he said, the only way he'd get me in the show -- they had Andy Russell, Pat Kinkaid [assumed spelling], who had been in movies and Louis Jordan and his Tympany Five and a lot of big-time stars. And so, the only way they'd get me in the show, he said, was if I would be emcee. I never emceed anything. I couldn't even emcee anything today. Some people are good emcee's and some people aren't and I'm not. So, I'm sure I laid several eggs emceeing. But I was supposed to, when Andy Russell sang two or three, four of his songs, I was supped to come up and say, "Andy, will you please sing my favorite song?" And he said, "Well, yes, Venus, what is it?" And I couldn't think of it to save my life [brief laughter]. I had traveled around a lot and I didn't take a radio with me. You didn't have little radios in those days. And so, I wasn't familiar with his song, "Don't Blame Me," is what it was. Anyway, he sang it to me. And I thought of Jeanette MacDonald and Eddie -- what was it? >> Tom Swope: Nelson Eddie. >> Venus Ramey: Yeah, right. Anyway, I thought of them singing "when I'm calling you" and looking at each other. And I always wondered at the movies, how could they keep from breaking out laughing? You know, they go so long and looking at each other and smiling. So, there I was trying to keep from laughing, while Andy was singing to me. As he sang, he had saliva sort of bubbled out around his mouth. And I watched those bubbles and [brief laughter] I wouldn't have done any good at a Nelson Eddy and Jeanette MacDonald movie. But anyway, just almost before he finished the song, we heard a plop on the right of the stage. And a girl had pulled -- from the top balcony, she had tied sheets up there and pulled -- come down, you know, like you did when you escaped from a prison or something. And fell and fell on the stage. And one of her shoes fell off. Andy knew exactly what was going to happen. It was a publicity stunt. They were doing anything to compete with Frank Sinatra. So, he went over and put her shoe on her and lifted her up. And I just stood there and gawked. Anyway, I thought they'd fire me, being emcee, but they didn't. They left me on to do my act. And they got the band leader to emcee. But that was the most harrowing occasion I ever had on vaudeville. >> Tom Swope: And after you became Miss America, there was some kind of a dispute with the Miss America people about the way you were using their time? Weren't they -- didn't they want more of your time? >> Venus Ramey: Well, they had a contract with a soap company and a pattern company and a cosmetic company. For me to go on a tour and sell bonds in department stores, after I modeled a wardrobe, that they could wash it in their soap. And it was three and half months. I would take up all the time left in 1944. And that wasn't my plan, to go into department stores. I wanted to go into show business. So, I didn't know the details of the contract. When I won the Miss Washington contest, we weren't explained that. And when I found out what it was, I told them I'm not going to do this. You know, I don't want the crown, if I'm going to have to go through this. And so, they went to the judges and said, we want to take -- get the second girl now because she won't finish the contract. And the judges said, we elected her because we thought she deserved it. And we're not going to give her -- you know, we're not going to take the crown away from her. So, I went on being Miss America. And General Pershing in the First World War, said that he would rather have 1,000 troops that had been entertained than 10,000 that hadn't. He said that entertainment gave the fellas a spirit décor and built their moral and spirit and made them better soldiers. So, I thought it was better to go into vaudeville. I got an offer in -- a part in a stage play in New York and I stayed there. But I thought vaudeville would get me around to sell bonds. And I could entertain the troops better if I went into vaudeville and traveled around. So, I'm glad I did. I may have missed a great opportunity by not taking that stage part, but you know. >> Tom Swope: Did you entertain the troops mainly during these bond appearances? Or did you actually go out and do shows specifically for troops, state side? >> Venus Ramey: Oh, yeah, right. Wherever there was -- if there was an army camp or a naval camp, we went out there. Oh, I could tell you something else about Jacksonville. The free French, had some boats and some ships. And if they came into one of our ports, anyplace in the United States, the government would refurbish the boats. And they would repair them if they needed and give them new supplies. And so, there was one in Jacksonville, while I was there. And I found out that that sometimes they would marry American girls on American soil. And the government arranged, if they would marry one of them, that they would get them over to Algiers, which at that time was still under French control. And keep them there until after war. And then they'd send them up to France. >> Tom Swope: Let's go to the next slide, here. Ah, here we go. >> Venus Ramey: Ah. That's the plane. >> Tom Swope: Actual nose art. >> Venus Ramey: This is a... >> Tom Swope: Before we get to that and maybe you'll tell -- the Miss America Pageant actually threatened to take your title away, didn't they? And it was about the time that this happened? >> Venus Ramey: Oh, oh, yeah. Well, no, it was right after I won. Well, a couple of months. >> Tom Swope: Right. >> Venus Ramey: Yeah, I won in September and this happened in October, you're right. >> Tom Swope: And tell us how this came about. >> Venus Ramey: Well -- I'm sorry, I forgot my glasses. I tell you, when you're 79, I can't hardly remember what happened last week. Ah. >> Tom Swope: You'll look silly, but you can see if those work. They're reading glasses. >> Venus Ramey: Well, I'm going to have to use my spy glass, anyway. This plane belonged to the 15th Air Force. And it was in the 301st bomb group. And the airmen -- the airman had -- they had gone up through the South of -- into Sicily. And they had gone through the South of Italy. And when they got to [inaudible] and in Foggia. I hope I'm pronouncing these names correctly. I never took Italian. Anyway, they had -- they set up an airbase there to bomb -- they started with the 8th Air Force in England. And they broke off into the 12th and 15th. And those two went down to North Africa. And they bombed the German and Italian instillations from the South, while the 8th Air Force were bombing from the North. And so, they had these fellas living in tents. And in those -- when they were down in North Africa, to put gasoline in planes. The plane holds about 2,000 gallons of gasoline. So, they would send gasoline in five-gallon cans. And these fellas would make a line. And they would pass these five-gallon cans of gasoline, hand to hand and pour it in the plane. So, what was left -- the empty cans, they would put dirt in them or sand. And they had tents and they would tie ropes to the cans and they lived in this tent. That's the way they lived. And at Foggia, they had tents too. They were a little bit better than that kind, but they still lived in tents. About four men to a tent. And so, in tent 37 -- I was inducted into the 301st bomber group in 1940. And in 1990, in Dayton, Ohio, when they had their reunion there. And here's a letter. Would you read that because you have glasses? >> Tom Swope: Well, have to trade glasses. >> Venus Ramey: Anyway, start there. >> Tom Swope: Start right here? >> Venus Ramey: Yeah. >> Tom Swope: "Words cannot describe my feelings and the memories that rush back to me from the 301st bomb group in Foggia, Italy in 1944. I thought it would be interesting for all others of the 301st, also. During those years, as you know, the 301st was stationed in Foggia, Italy, about six miles from the town. We lived in tents, about four to a tent. But a bunch of us spent a lot of time in tent 37, where we congregated, had our discussions, drank vino and so forth. Someone, I don't exactly remember who, showed us a story about Venus Ramey winning the Miss America of 1944 Pageant. One word led to another and I was designated with a great deal of jest, to write to Miss America and ask for her picture. So, that our drab tent would be improved. Of course, I can't remember everything I wrote, but I remember sending a humorous letter on our behalf, telling Miss Ramey how beautiful she was. How we were all excited about her. And were looking forward to receiving a picture, if she would be so kind. At that point, we didn't give it much more thought. Not even expecting that someone that busy would think of a bunch of GI's, thousands of miles away. About six weeks later, I did receive a beautiful autographed picture from Miss Ramey. I remember being very proud and rushing to the tent, where we were all excited, crazy, kissing Miss Ramey all over the picture and really had some fun. I remember all the comments were so appreciated and complimentary to her." Is there more? >> Venus Ramey: There's just a little bit. >> Tom Swope: Okay. "Now, over 45 years later, I saw her picture on the front page and read about her going to be the guest of honor at the Dayton reunion. What a thrill. I'm going to try to make it, but my work here, during those days, is very busy." >> Venus Ramey: And it was from Sonny Reginer [assumed spelling], in Los Vegas, back in 1990. >> Tom Swope: And we should mention, the way that actually ended up on the B-17, is someone found it -- found the picture in, was it in Stars and Stripes? >> Venus Ramey: No, that was a picture I sent to them. >> Tom Swope: Oh, okay. >> Venus Ramey: And I had -- they asked me to write all six of the fella's names that were in tent 37, at that time, that were planning all this. And I did, but it didn't show up on the plane. There was a fella named Bill Tamarino [assumed spelling], from Baltimore, Maryland. >> Tom Swope: Maryland. >> Venus Ramey: Yeah. And he painted. So, they went down and got Bill. And they got a ladder and they put him up on it and said, "Now, paint her picture on this." So, he took a little five by seven picture and painted that in color. And you can imagine how large it was on a B-17, to show up that large. And they named it the Venus Ramey. And it made over 68 sorties over Germany and that area, without losing a man. Here is -- I wrote an article, no one bought it. But this is part of it. And I believe it starts there. And it probably is marked out and then there. >> Tom Swope: Okay, it's edited a little bit, but I'll try to get this here. Let's see, Foggia, Italy in 1944. "The airmen lived in tents and in tent 37 they read in the Stars and Stripes Newspaper that I was Miss America, 1944. It wasn't Venus Ramey that excited those boys, it was Miss America. A symbol of home, the statue of liberty. A reminder of decency, goodness, mercy, freedom, sanity from the world, where they were, gone mad. Miss America, the girl next door or the girl they left behind, they would return to marry. She would carryon mom's apple pie tradition. She would have their babies. Miss America was, spite from seeing their buddies' blood and guts spilled out on the tarmac, knowing that any day it might their own. I was just a symbol, but I wouldn't trade what that symbol meant to those boys in tent 37 and the airmen who saw my picture on the B-17 each day, for all the worlds wealth and fame." [ Applause ] And do we know what eventually did happen to that plane? Wasn't it -- didn't the plane go somewhere? >> Venus Ramey: Yes, it was -- let me see. Read this one. >> Tom Swope: I get to practice my reading. This is a newspaper article. Do we know what paper this appeared in? >> Venus Ramey: In Oakland, in California. This is where [inaudible]. >> Tom Swope: Oakland, California. >> Venus Ramey: It's Mervin Moyles [assumed spelling]. >> Tom Swope: Where should we start here? Where is a good point that you wanted to talk about? "Venus, according to Second Lieutenant Mervin Moyles of Oakland, has earned her right to a rest, but she isn't going to get it. The crew of the 15th B-17 Flying Fortress, of which Moyles is navigator, have needed her too badly to let her go now. And with the VE Day announcement in Europe, where she has been on almost her constant combat duty, the crew hopes to take her into action in the Pacific. The plane with a picture of Miss America of 1944, Venus Ramey, painted in color on its side, has chalked up an enviable record." >> Venus Ramey: And so, they brought back over to the United States. They were going -- it was V-Day, near there at that time. And they were going to take it to the Pacific, after over 60 sorties over the European there. And the war was over, shortly after that. But... >> Tom Swope: And I believe it was right around the time that you were made nose art on the B-17, that you were also voted parachute girl. What's that? >> Venus Ramey: Well, that was what they called -- they named me the parachute girl. They would like to bail out with over a deserted desert island. And -- the parachute girl, two titles. And this some of the statistics. This is from the 15th Air Force, this group that these boys were involved in. It's an enviable group. They have a fantastic legacy to leave us. Can you make out any of that? >> Tom Swope: Basically, it says here, this is the 15th Air Force, some of the stats on them. "Lost 44% of the B-17's, 49% of the B-24's in the outfits. >> Venus Ramey: We lost. >> Tom Swope: Lost. These are the planes that were lost. >> Venus Ramey: Almost 50%. >> Tom Swope: Twenty-four thousand, two hundred eighty-eight killed, 18,649 missing. That's the 8th and 15th Air forces combined. What did it mean to you to be a pinup girl to the servicemen overseas? >> Venus Ramey: Well, some Miss Americas think that that's below their dignity. But I think, as General Pershing said, that was later [inaudible]. They needed -- I tell in this article how desperate they were to get their mind off of, you know, knowing they were going to die. When those fellas -- in the first place, most of the pilots in those days, they needed -- we were ill prepared for the Second World War. And they needed help desperately. Just like the needed help with the defense plants here. They trained people to do things they'd never done before. So, those pilots went up in those big B-17's and 29's, with maybe 200 hours of flight time. You know, to fly in a commercial plane, you have to have thousands of hours, before they even let you fly. But they went up. They would fly in formation, these big bombers. And they couldn't maneuver to the right or left. They had to stay on track and fly. And then they had fighters going all around them. But they had tail gunners and so forth. But it was a harrowing thing to do. But those boys did it and with bravery. They never turned back. They'd lose planes along the way. In fact, on their way over, the 15th Air Force, they went down to Brazil to get across it. That was the shortest distance from the West of Africa. And they lost two planes in the jungle down there, you know, [inaudible]. They couldn't even find them among all those trees. So, they lost, well, almost 50% of their planes, on these various routes. But... >> Tom Swope: You must have been getting a lot of mail, during those years. >> Venus Ramey: I did. >> Tom Swope: Any particularly memorable mail that comes to mind? >> Venus Ramey: Oh, before -- I was getting mail in 1942 and '43 because I was in these beauty contests and fellas read about them. And they -- three of them sent a poem that went around about how they had to dig ditches. And the things they had to go through for $21 a month, they made. And it was -- they were lonely. Some of them farm boys or boys who had never been away from home before. And they were out in -- they never even heard of. And they were so lonely. It was very sad to get these letters. So, I had 2,000 pictures made and I sent them out to them, after I won the contest. >> Tom Swope: I'm not sure, do we have anymore pictures up here? Do we know? Let's see if there's anything else in the slideshow here. Next picture. Oh, boy. >> Venus Ramey: Ah, that's in the USO in Washington, D.C., entertaining the servicemen. And I was there the day the one millionth GI went through the door in the USO in Washington, D.C. >> Tom Swope: Next picture. Let's go to the next one, see what else we have. Oh. >> Venus Ramey: Ah. That's one of the pictures I sent to the GI's. The other one was the one that was on the plane. I had two poses. >> Tom Swope: And you sent, how many thousands of those did you send out the GI's? >> Venus Ramey: Two thousand. >> Tom Swope: Let the boys know what they're fighting for, right? Yeah. Next. >> Venus Ramey: That is in Great Lakes Naval Yard, Naval Base. >> Tom Swope: The next photo. >> Venus Ramey: That is in Atlantic City, before I won, when they had -- the day they had the parade. And there were a lot of servicemen up there. >> Tom Swope: What do we have next? I think we might have finished it off. Very good. Now, after Miss America, after the war, you took a crack at Hollywood. How did that go? >> Venus Ramey: Well, I got -- I was there several months. And I got -- finally got a -- well, I got a part in a stage play that lasted -- Phil Murray [assumed spelling] put on. And it lasted seven years, but I was tired of the stage. I told my mother, she wanted me to be an actor so badly. But I told her, being on the stage is just like going from the dressing room, in the basement of a house, an unfinished basement of a house, up to a living room. And you have to -- and the dressing rooms, in those old theatres, the sewage pipes would run along, you know, the ceiling. And you'd hear this water going through. And they were dirty and damp and old theatres, you know. It wasn't a pleasant life. And I was -- I wanted a kitchen of my own. You couldn't get an apartment in those days. And I wanted a kitchen of my own. I wanted a home of my own. I just wanted to get away from showbusiness. So, I got a wonderful part in a picture in Warner Brothers Theatre. And the person that got it for me was Colonel Barney Oldfield. He was the nephew of the original racer, who helped put Ford Motor Company on the map, by racing their early Model T Fords. And he had been the press agent for the Air Force in the Second World War. And he was the only journalist who ever had his picture hanging in the Pentagon. And so, he was doing PR for Warner Brothers. And he got me a fantastic job in a picture that Milton Sperling, who was Jack Warner's son-in-law, who was producing. I was really in there, but I was just sick of showbusiness. I wanted something real. That was all tinsel and artificiality. So, I had a farm back in Kentucky and I went back to it. >> Tom Swope: Does anybody out there have any questions you'd like to ask Miss America? Anybody from the audience? I guess she's answered all the questions. Any closing comments that you'd like to say about this whole World War Two reunion and the dedication of the Memorial? >> Venus Ramey: It's about time the Second World War people got recognition. [ Applause ] At that time, in the United States history, was the epidemy of consideration, respect, strength of character and great people. That was a fine generation. It will never be repeated. I was -- I wish it would, but we've been going downhill ever since, I think. This country needs a soul cleansing. It was the top -- it rose the apex during the 40's and the 50's. But those boys, there will never be another group like them that fought that war. [ Applause ] >> Tom Swope: Thank you very much. Miss America, 1944, Venus Ramey. >> Venus Ramey: Thank you. [ Applause ] >> This has been a presentation of the Library of Congress. Visit us at loc.gov.