>> From the Library of Congress in Washington, DC. [ silence ] >> John Cole: Well good afternoon. Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to -- welcome to the Library of Congress. I'm John Cole, I'm the Director of the Center for the Book in the Library of Congress, which means that I am the reading promoter for the Library of Congress. And we promote books, reading, literacy, and libraries in all kinds of different ways, through talks such as this noon's talk, and we're pleased to have you here, but also through affiliates around the country. There are state centers for the book in every state. We also have reading promotion partners. We also are deeply involved in the Library of Congress' national book festival, which will be held this coming year on September the 24th. It's a big even on the mall, I hope that all of you can join us there. We also have a program called Books and Beyond, and today's speaker will illustrate what we do with this program. We take recently published books that have -- are based on library research, especially at the Library of Congress but in this case in libraries all over the area, to show how in fact research is important, and how research often ends up in a book. And we will have today at this program, not only hearing from Doctor Nancy K. Loane, but we also will have a brief discussion period following her talk, and then a book signing, which is part of each of our Center for the Book events. Today's program is being video taped not only by the Library of Congress for our archive, but also by C-SPAN. So you're going to be able to be part of an audience. We ask you therefore to turn off all things electronic, and when we get to the question and answer period if you have questions, you may end up being part of our program and we thank you in advance for your permission to be part of our program. Nancy Loane, I know many of you -- oh we have special guests here today from the Urbana High School from Frederick County. Raise your hands. [ applause ] >> John Cole: We're pleased to have you here for a very special kind of history lesson. Nancy, who lives in Valley Forge, is a former seasonal ranger at the Valley Forge National Historical Park. And she has studied more than 500 revolutionary war diaries, journals, letters, orderly books, and records, many of them in the Library of Congress, but also in libraries all over the area. She is a speaker -- a well-known speaker. She's presented talks not only about the women of Valley Forge, but also about Martha Washington, and the soldiers' letters from the Valley Forge Camp. She's a founding member of the American Revolution Round Table of Philadelphia, and an honorary lifetime member of the Society of Descendants of Washington's army at Valley Forge. And guess where she lives? Valley Forge, Pennsylvania. [ laughter ] >> John Cole: Let me introduce Doctor Nancy K. Loane. Nancy? [ applause ] [ silence ] Nancy Loane: Thank you so much. And it's just a joy and a pleasure to be here today. And thank you for all of you who have come. Some of you have come from far, far away I know. We have people that have come from Pennsylvania and Maryland and Virginia. And I thank you for coming. I thank my husband, Tom, for all the support he has given me over the years, and certainly for the help in putting this presentation today. I thank you to Gail and Todd Fineburg [phonetic]. Without them I would not be standing here right now. Thanks Gail and Todd. And for John Cole for the Center of the Book, for this wonderful opportunity, really a magic time for me, and I hope a good time for you, when you find out a little bit more about the women and ladies at the Valley Forge encampment. The Library of Congress was an important place to me as I was doing my research. I did a lot of my research online. And here you see the George Washington papers of the Library of Congress, where I took my information about the Washington papers. I started my research at Valley Forge National Historical Park, in the library there. And of course they have the complete set of the Washington papers, but really it's easier, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, to sit in your flannel pajamas, and online research the Washington papers, rather than going through them page after page in a library where you have to be dressed. So I loved the Library of Congress online papers, quoted from them exclusive -- I mean extensively in the book. I also used the online catalog quite a bit. What I wanted to do was to find out as much basic primary research about the topic as I could. So I went to the online library to see -- catalog to see what kinds of books and sources were there, and make sure that I had checked everything possible that I could about my particular subject. The Thatcher papers for example that I'll be discussing later, I saw that there were many editions of the Thatcher journals. And it was most helpful 'cause the Library of Congress had them all listed out here in their online -- on their catalog, to see exactly what those editions were, and make sure that I had checked each one of those. So that was very helpful to me. Is anybody here by the -- from the digital reference team with the initials KD by any chance? >> I know him. >> Nancy K. Loane: Oh excellent. Tell KD that I really appreciated his work. Several times as I was researching, you have the opportunity to ask the librarian with the Library of Congress site, and I did ask the librarian. I sent in an email saying I need help with this, can you help me? Every single time, Library of Congress, and I love you for this, you came forth in a big, big way. These are our tax dollars at work, and tremendously. Look what KD says. We believe you're looking for the following document. We've attached two jpg files. If you have any problems let us know, and we'll send them again. We hope this information's helpful, contact us if you have any additional questions. Is that not the best? This is a fabulous resource to everybody, and thank you, Library of Congress for this. Please thank KD very much for this response. Here's another one, Lea [phonetic]. Anybody know Lea Apadaca [phonetic] might be here? This response also just -- just was so impressive to me as a researcher. Your question to the American Memory was forwarded to the manuscript division. Notice it didn't -- when it didn't even start out at the right place they forwarded it to where it needed to go. The James Abele [phonetic] letter, please provide me with your postal address. Listen I will be glad to mail you a complementary copy of the letter. Now isn't that something? They went and got the letter, and mailed me a complementary copy of the letter. You have no idea what that did to me as a researcher in Valley Forge, Pennsylvania, to have this kind of support. And I was very, very grateful for that, and I thank you. So thank you so much, Library of Congress. From all this research, and it took 11 years for me to get all this together, came the book Following the Drum: Women at the Valley Force Encampment. I looked at hundreds of books and manuscripts, and all kinds of things. I was really only interested in the primary documents of the time. And so I started out my research at Valley Forge National Historical Park. I then went to the David [phonetic] Library, I went down to Mount Vernon. I received a grant, by the way, in Mount Vernon to come down and research with you down there. I also went to many historical societies, I dug -- did a lot of work online of course, and put all the information together in my book Following the Drum: Women at the Valley Forge Encampment. I started with little notecards, I went from that into files, and then from the files I loaded up my computer with all this stuff. A huge amount of -- of work went into it. I do need to tell you, too, that the booklet would not have come together unless my husband would have left me. He left for a year. He was downsized, which means fired, from his position, and he went up to Danbury, Connecticut. If Tom -- and he's heard me say this many times -- if Tom would not have left for one year, I would not have been able to write the book. Because I am of the mindset well gosh, maybe he needs some iced tea, or maybe he wants dinner, or he wants me to hold the ladder, you know? So if he would not have gone, I could not have sat around in my flannel pajamas until 3 in the morning working on this manuscript. We of course talked every night, we also visited every weekend. And -- but because he left, I was able to get this manuscript finished. And then guess what? He came back again. And when honeybunch came back, this was good too, because he said I will help you with all your illustrations. I'm not so good technically, I will help you with the index for the book. And I needed that kind of technical support. So he left at just the right time, he came back at just the right time. And I thank you, honey, for your comings and goings enabling me to get my book done. I'm very fortunate, I had no trouble getting the book published itself. The first publisher that I sent it to was interested. They ultimately did not publish the book, but the editor of there -- and that was Praeger [phonetic] -- sent the manuscript on to another publisher, which was Potomac. And Potomac took it. So I was very, very fortunate. All along the way this has been an incredible journey for me, So let's talk about Valley Forge. I hope everybody's been to Valley Forge. If you haven't, go. Maybe after today you'll say I must go. And when you do go, I want you to look at it differently than perhaps you'd looked before. In 1777 and 1778 when General Washington was there, it's a very different place than what you see now. Now, beautiful trees, lots of grass, 3,500 acres, lots of deer scamping around. Then -- 1777 and 1778 -- what you see then were thousands of soldiers, thousands of huts, hundreds of women, hundreds of horses, cattle, sheep, pigs. This was a very busy place. It was also a very smelly place. While Valley Forge is beautiful today, it was not beautiful during the time of the encampment. Think what it's like if you go out camping and don't wash for one week. Now don't wash for two weeks. Now don't wash for six months. The Valley Forge encampment was six months long. Beautiful now, not so pretty then. Next time you go back, think about what it was like during that time. Valley Forge Encampment is a famous American icon. Indeed, people come from all over the world to Valley Forge. Most of them think of it as a place with snow and ice, and the destitute soldiers huddled around their fires. What you need to know, however, is that the snow and the ice is really the encampment two years later at the Morristown Encampment. This instead was a very rainy, wintry encampment at Valley Forge. Many people think about the suffering soldiers gathered around their fire huts. But very few people think about the hundreds and hundreds of women that came with Washington on the 19th of December of 1777. And that's what we're going to be talking about today. First woman you need to think about is Lady Martha Washington. I love this woman, an extraordinary individual. About five feet tall, light complexion, dark hair, like -- light eyes, hooked nose. And I once heard that she was left-handed. This is a woman who followed her man, followed her man. There were eight encampments during the American Revolution, and Martha Washington went to every one of them. In fact, when you count up the number of days that she's away from Mount Vernon, to go to the encampments, to stay at the encampments, to travel back to Mount Vernon, and the time she gets some special things, like being inoculated against smallpox, you realize that Martha is away from Mount Vernon for about five years of the American Revolution. And the revolution lasts for about eight and one-half years. So she definitely did follow her man. Washington came home to Mount Vernon for a very short time during the revolution. If she wanted to see him, she had to travel to go to be with him. General Washington and Mrs. Washington had I believe a wonderful marriage. They were married for almost 40 years, he died suddenly in the -- the 14th of December of 1799. Martha had been married previously to -- to Daniel Parke Custis. Her first husband died suddenly. He was 20 years older than she. They had had four children together, two of the children died young. And when she married George Washington she had two children. And she was, as reported, perhaps the wealthiest widow in all of Virginia when she married George Washington. What does she do when she comes to Valley Forge? Number one, takes care of General Washington. This is her primary concern, to take care of the general, and to make sure that he is as comfortable as possible. General Washington by the way, is about six-two, he's just a few months younger than she, he's a guy with great legs. You look at the Hu Don [phonetic] statue of him, this guy has great legs. And I think that they had a wonderful, romantic relationship, as I mentioned before. And she wants to be with the general, so she comes to Valley Forge to do that. Something else that she does, she receives visitors who come to Valley Forge. They're not always able to see General Washington right away, and so she would be the one who would receive the visitors, along with the aides of course, before they're able to see General Washington. This is something else that she does at Valley Forge, that I love this primary research, 'cause it really gives you a whole new flavor of Valley Forge. She goes to the theater at Valley Forge. Cato is General Washington's favorite play. It's performed before a numerous and splendid audience at Valley Forge. And Martha Washington is in that audience. How many of us think as Valley Forge and theater in the same sentence? We think of destitute soldiers, we think of tough times, we don't think of theater productions at camp. Something else that happens at Valley Forge, Martha Washington accepts three portraits of her husband that are painted at Valley Forge. Charles Wilson Peale, the famous portrait painter is at camp. And he paints three portraits of General Washington, and presents them to her with his usual price of 56 dollars, as he says. In his diary he reports that he paints 50 portraits of officers and their wives at camp. Do we think of our American officers standing around having their portraits painted at Valley Forge? We do not. And that is why this research to me has been so very exciting. She also goes to worship services at Valley Forge, she receives in the center of a large tent on May the 6th, and these are some of the things that she is doing at camp. There is no documentation from the 18th century, however, that says that Martha visited among the soldiers and cared for the common soldiers. And in my book, the Making the Myth of Martha, I talk about how this -- and I believe it is a myth -- gets started, and how it grows and grows and grows. It's first mentioned in 1834, but by 1886, which is more than 100 years after Valley Forge, someone reports that he has interviewed a woman who has actually gone with Martha to one of these huts. This is 100 years after the Valley Forge encampment. And I don't have time now to go through all the documentation of how I talked about the story of Making the Myth of Martha, but I just would just suggest to you that this is something that an 18th century lady, of which Martha Washington certainly was, would not do. Other women come to Valley Forge also. Katherine Green [phonetic]. Now I think I'm kind of a little jealous of Katherine Green. She speaks French, the French officers love to go to her home. One of them in fact presents to her six volumes of French comedy at Valley Forge. We don't think of our officers carrying comedy -- French comedy with them, the French officers. But they did, obviously that was very important to them. She leaves her children at home, her little children named George and Martha. Everybody's named George and Martha during the revolution. George Washington Lafayette, George Washington Green, George Washington Knox, these are all the very population names during the time. And she comes to Valley Forge. She goes to the theater, she has her portraits painted at -- at Valley Forge also. And she of course is married to General Nathaniel Green. General Nathaniel Green is the man who totally changes the way the supplies are directed to the Army. At Valley Forge we have between 1,500 and 3,000 men dying. They're dying because of the tremendous problems in supplying 12, 14,000 soldiers. And so they get disease from nutritional problems. General Nathaniel Green comes in and totally changes about how the Army takes care of themselves, and so is able to make a huge difference in that. In encampments following, we have far fewer soldiers dying, because the Army learns how to care for themselves. Lucy Nox [phonetic] comes to Valley Forge. Lucy's a larger woman, she weighs about 250. Her husband weighs about 280, so as General Nathaniel Green says, they are equally fat, they cannot laugh at each other, he says. [ laughter ] >> Nancy Loane: Lucy Knox is a really neat lady. I just love this lady. She's a brilliant woman, I think a little bossy, kind of opinionated, also has 13 children. Of these though only three live to adulthood. 13 children, three live to adulthood. She brings with her, her little daughter Lucy, who is two years old to Valley Forge, the youngest person that I know for sure that is at camp. Little Lucy comes to Valley Forge. The Knox family unfortunately lose their next daughter at the Middlebrook Encampment, which is in New Jersey. And if you go to the Middlebrook Encampment, you will see a little tombstone, a little tombstone that says Julia [phonetic], daughter of General Henry and Mrs. Knox. Their second daughter was born at Middlebrook Encampment, and died at the Middlebrook Encampment. Montpelier is the Knox home. This is a reconstruction of their original home. If you enter Montpelier today, and it's in Thomaston, Maine, you will go into the dead room. And in the dead room is where five of the Knox children were laid out within two years. On way day alone, Henry and Lucy Knox lost two of their children. This is a reality of the 18th century. Anthony Wayne comes to Valley Forge, but his wife doesn't. We say that park [phonetic], that he's looking wistfully over at Waynesboro. It's about ten miles away from Valley Forge, but his wife never comes to camp, he never goes to visit her either. You can tell there's some things that are going on in the Wayne family, and it's not good. And then we have some other ladies that come to camp also, Lady Sterling, Alice Lee Shippin [phonetic], Rebecca Bittle [phonetic]. Alice Lee Shippin's an interesting woman, from Belize of Virginia, again as lady-like as you go, like Martha Washington. These are real lady ladies, the Virginia ladies. Alice Lee Shippin is interesting about what she writes from the Valley Forge Encampment. Her husband writes to the daughter, who is in a finishing school in Camden during the Valley Forge period. And the husband writes, your mother -- which is Alice Lee Shippin -- your mother wants to know are you learning how to enter a room properly? [ laughter ] >> Nancy Loane: Are you learning how to leave a room properly? Are you, my daughter Nancy, learning to how to sit? Are you learning how to stand? And do not wear a bow on your shoulder, it will make you crooked. [ laughter ] >> Nancy Loane: Alice Lee Shippin, think about what she was thinking about at Valley Forge. First of all, she's an optimist, she knows the Americans are going to win, and she wants her daughter to be the finest lady in all of Philadelphia when this war is over. Finest lady in all of Philadelphia. So this is one of the -- some of the ladies that come to Valley Forge. We have a group of ladies that come to Valley Forge then. We also have women that travel with General Washington's military family. General Washington traveled with cooks, he traveled with a laundress, he travels with a housekeeper. These are also some of the women that come to the Valley Forge Encampment. Hannah Till [phonetic] is General Washington's cook. She is married to Isaac Till. They are both Black slaves, they are both owned by separate owners in Philadelphia -- in New York, pardon me, in New York. Both of the owners have said to George Washington you pay me a certain amount of money, and I will free these slaves. So both Hannah and Isaac worked during the revolution for their freedom. And by the time the revolution ended, both Hannah and Isaac were free. So think about what the revolution meant for them. Well for our country it's freedom, for them personally it also was freedom. Interesting to look again at the Library of Congress site, they have the records from Hannah Till. You can see that before she was free, she put an X. She could not write, so she put an X under her name, which was Hannah Mason, the name of her owner. When she's free she can take her own name, Hannah Till, Hannah Till. We also have Mrs. Elizabeth Thompson who comes to camp. She is 74 when she comes to the Valley Forge Encampment. She signs on at the age of 72 to be with George Washington. She resigns at the age of 77, age has made it necessary for her to do so, she says. But for five years she travels with Washington during the American Revolution. She's described as a worthy Irish woman. At the age of 81 she writes to George Washington. And she says that she knows that he remembers her, she certainly remembers him. She knows -- she knows that he would be able to helpful her, because she is destitute, she's in broken health. General Washington responds by sending her money, Congress by the way responds by giving her 100 dollars annually in pension at this point. And then General Washington invites her to spend her final days at Mount Vernon with the family. There's no evidence that I've seen that she's actually was able to travel to Mount Vernon. She could not come from New York down to Virginia. But again, something of the quality of this man we call General Washington, President Washington, inviting his housekeeper -- former housekeeper to spend her final days at Mount Vernon. Then we have the camp women that come to Valley Forge. At least 400 of them, again the Library of Congress shows us this record. Notice on the right -- hard to see, but it says women -- w - o - m - e - n. It's an estimate of 400 women that come with General Washington on the 19th of December of 1777. These are working for the Army. General Washington wanted them to work for the Army. That's the only reason he wanted these camp women to be with the Army, if they work for the Army. They would work as cooks, they worked as laundresses, they worked as seamstresses, they worked as nurses for the Army. Washington says if you work for the Army, the Army will pay you, and we will also give you rations. We will give you food. You do not work, you get no pay and you get no food. Now of course with the women were children. We have no idea how many children came to Valley Forge, but there certainly were women that had children, and brought them to Valley Forge, and undoubtedly children were born at Valley Forge. I've never, however, seen any records of that. There also other women that come to Valley Forge. This is Molly Pitcher [phonetic]. This famous Molly Pitcher. Her name is really Mary Hayes. Her husband musters into the Army before the Valley Forge Encampment. He [inaudible] after the Valley Forge Encampment. But the historian -- the former historian at -- at Valley Forge, Joseph Lee Boyle really feels that Molly Pitcher was at camp also. We think of her at Monmouth [phonetic], we also need to think of her at Valley Forge. And then of course we have some other women, and these are the women that are forced to leave. Some of these women are not as savory as some of the other women that come to camp. And before I talk about these other women that are forced to leave, I think that many, many of the women that come to camp are there because Valley Forge offers to them their very best chance for survival. We have some interesting letters from the soldiers, particularly that are brought up in the -- in the court-martials when the soldiers who have deserted are coming back to camp, and they say why did you leave camp? Why did you go? And one soldier said I left because my wife wrote to me a letter, and it said come home. The children and I have nothing to eat but potatoes. Come home. And so the soldier left, he went home. And then he brought back with him his wife and his children. So who were these camp women? Many of them I would suggest to you are there at Valley Forge because it offers to them their best chance for survival. They are going to work as washer women, they're going to work as a nurse. Their children may even work as drummer boys perhaps for the Army. And so the Army is a place that the whole family will be able to get sustenance, will be able to get food, will be able to get a place to sleep, and be safe, be safe. But then there are some women that are forced to leave that are not quite as savory, and we have their names because of the records -- the military records, and the trials that they have put on. We have for example Sarah Van Kirk [phonetic]. Sarah Van Kirk -- and I can't tell from the records if she is a prostitute or if she is a thief. She may be both, I couldn't tell. But by Christmas Sarah Van Kirk has been drummed out of the Army, and has been removed from Valley Forge. We also have a woman by the name of Mary Johnson. Mary Johnson is put on trial for encouraging the soldiers to desert. She is found guilty, she is given 100 lashes well laid on, and drummed out of the Army at the Valley Forge Encampment. We have an Ann McIntosh [phonetic]. Ann McIntosh is also put on trial for getting the soldiers to desert. She, however, is acquitted, and she is allowed to stay at the Valley Forge Encampment. We have a Mrs. Lendal [phonetic] who comes to Valley Forge. Mrs. Lendal apparently is living in a hut with her husband. Her hut -- her husband was on guard duty, he did not show up. One of the officers went to Mrs. Lendal and said where is your husband? And she said I don't know, he has left camp. He had said that he would kill me if I told anyone that he was leaving. So Mr. Lendal left, Mrs. Lendal stays at Valley Forge. And speaking of prostitutes, Sergeant Hawcroff's [phonetic] tent was a busy place. 'Cause according to the records, listen who is in it. We have his whore, her mother, and his family to the prejudice of good military discipline, as the records said. A very busy spot, Sergeant Hawcroff's tent. So Valley Forge, a very special place. People come from all over the world to the Valley Forge Encampment. I in fact had a gentleman, as I was in my 18th century costume at Valley Forge as a volunteer, the gentleman stepped over the threshold and said is this where Washington spent his time at Valley Forge? And I said yes, I was in headquarters. And then the man started to cry. And the man was from Thailand. This place meant that much to him. Valley Forge, he had knew about it in Thailand. A very special place, people come from all over the world. It's beautiful in every season of the year. Here you see it in fall. While it's called Valley Forge, know that there are great heights here. And if you go on the encampment tour at Valley Forge, you'll see that all -- all those trees would have been stripped down, which they certainly were during the Valley Forge Encampment. You would be able to see for miles, and that's why it was chosen. British were in Philadelphia, the Americans were in Valley Forge. And they could easily have seen the British if they were coming out. Naked and starving as they are, we cannot enough admire the incomparable patience and fidelity of the soldiery. General Washington writes this letter from Valley Forge. It's in the vault at Valley Forge. You can see why they loved General Washington. He is a real supporter of his troops. And naked by the way, does not mean that their soldiers are running around in their birthday suits. What it does mean is that they do not have the complete uniform. If you do not have the complete uniform, you are considered naked, as far as the 18th century is concerned. Valley Forge is a place where most people think of the snow, and the ice. But as I mentioned, the records go back on the diaries of the time, they're talking about rain, they're not talking about heavy snows and heavy ice. And one of the rangers decided it would be interesting to try an experiment. Let's live in these huts for a week. Let's see what this is like. So in February seven -- several years ago, one of our rangers went into one of the huts, took some friends with him, put temperature probes all around inside. And what he discovered once he closed that door and fired up that fireplace is that very quickly the temperature got to be 70 degrees. 70 degrees. Now of course this was near the fireplace, not near the door, and they did have an issue whenever the door opened there was -- was a tremendous draft. But these huts were warm. The soldiers write we are better hutted than any army in the world. This is what they are writing from Valley Forge. This is not a place of bad huts. They loved their huts. Bad food, yes. Bad clothing, absolutely. Huts, that was another story. There's something missing with my -- with my things. So I'll just kind of finish off that way, and say that Valley Forge, as I mentioned, is a place that people come from all over the world. I have absolutely fell in love with Valley Forge and the Valley Forge story, so much so that when you open up the closet in my bedroom, what you see are not pictures of my husband or even my children, or even my grandchildren, what you see instead is a large picture of General George Washington, along with a little bouquet of flowers and a candle. On the left-hand side you see stacks and stacks of George and Martha Washington dolls that I have bought on eBay. You also see, if you go into my bathroom, towels that are embroidered George and Martha. [ laughter ] >> Nancy Loane: So I've become a little wacky about the subject. I do hope you come to Valley Forge again. And maybe, maybe you will be like me. Because as I walk the paths of Valley Forge, I hear women's voices. And what they are saying to me is remember me, won't you please remember me? I also was here at Valley Forge. I also was present. But I have never been accounted for. Thank you. [ applause ] >> Nancy Loane: Are there any questions? >> [Inaudible]. >> Nancy Loane: Question is were the children schooled at all. I would think no. I've never seen anything that talks about the children getting schooling at any of the encampments. No, no. It would be wonderful if they would have been, yes. But no. Don't forget, many of these soldiers at Valley Forge could not write, they could not read. Many of the women cannot write, can they read -- why are there so few records from the revolution? One of the reasons is our soldiers were not writing and reading. The officers, another story. The officers could. But not the common soldiers. It was rare. The only -- the only record that I've actually seen from Valley Forge, a letter from Valley Forge, there are probably two letters only from the common soldiers. And one of them contains a darling little poem that the soldier writes. Something like my pen is bad, my -- I'm sorry, my pen is bad, my ink is bad. If you can read this I will not be sad. [ laughter ] >> Nancy Loane: Something along that point. Four little lines. But there's almost nothing. So if the parents are not educated, I frankly don't see that the children were being educated. Right. Yes? >> Is there -- are there any records of violence against women [inaudible]? >> Nancy Loane: Any records about violence in the women against the encampment. I've not seen anything like that, certainly not without -- with -- it's in the realm of possibility though. I mean I think it very likely could be. It's interesting in some of the records that I see, and not from Valley Forge, but they have names of the women, very unusual. They also have Mrs. or Miss, even more unusual. And then they have children listed also. Those are great records. And when I looked at those records, and I think that was from the new Windsor Encampment, what I could do was match up the names of the women against the soldiers that were there. And what I found that there were a few names that were different. But virtually all the names match up with one of the soldiers there. So great indication, I think that the wives are coming, that the sisters are coming, that the moms are coming, perhaps daughters, whoever, that they're related to the soldiers. Very few instances, in that one record I saw anyway, that the names were separate, right? Yes. Any other questions? Yes? >> [Inaudible]. >> Namcy Loane: Yes. >> [Inaudible] >> Nancy Loane: That's a great question. Lucy lost 10 of her children. How did they die, essentially? It was not something that ran throughout the camp, because Lucy Knox would have stayed apart from the encampment in many ways. Henry Knox says that the children die -- one of them died of putrid fever, one of them died of a disease common to children who were cutting teeth. One died of -- of a typhus problem. So certainly it's hard to know exactly what all these diseases were that took the children in the 18th century. Sometimes though there were diseases that ran -- just ran through like epidemics, and 18th century medicine just did not know what to do for them, right? But three of the children were left, 10 of the Knox children died. One of the other women who comes to camp also lost 10 of her children. She had 13, and 10 of the children died also. Another question I hope. Yes? Thank you. >> This is a little more of an anecdote. But [inaudible] research in Philadelphia -- >> Nancy Loane: Yes. >> -- time. A group of [inaudible] was exiled from Philadelphia to -- to -- I'm sorry, to -- >> Nancy Loane: Winchester. >> -- during the -- >> Nancy Loane: Yes, that's right. >> -- Philadelphia. And one of the wives in one of these [inaudible] Elizabeth Draker [phonetic] -- >> Nancy Loane: That's right. >> -- extensive diary for most of her life. She and four of her -- or three of her colleagues, the four of them set out to find news of their husbands in Winchester. And in order to make a passage, they had to stop at Valley Forge in order to get permission to cross the battle lines. And there's this great passage -- >> Nancy Loane: Yes. >> -- about how well they are received -- >> Nancy Loane: That's right. >> -- at Valley Forge. And -- >> Nancy Loane: Martha -- >> to dinner -- >> Nancy Loane: Martha. >> -- Martha and something like 23 -- >> Nancy Loane: That's right. >> And these are people who are basically considered wives of the potential enemy. >> Nancy Loane: Mm-hmm. >> -- exiled -- the [inaudible] have been exiled because they're [inaudible]. >> Nancy Loane: Right. >> And it struck me -- >> Nancy Loane: That's very true. >> -- of this, this is a gracious society -- >> Very gracious society. Yes, thank you. The Elizabeth Drinker [phonetic], I quote that also. There's a wonderful anecdote. She describes Martha Washington, about the dinner, pleasantly received. They spend the next night in Vo Hall [phonetic]. Those of us from Valley Forge, that's right across the river, that's where they are. And yes, General Washington, I think she might have come to General Washington to try to get the men released, and he was not able to give permission. He sent her on to Congress to have that happen. But as far as graciousness, yes. There's some wonderful examples. General Lafayette writes a letter to his wife, who carries over to France, but one of Lafayette's friends who is a British officer -- a British officer. And he says to his wife you will be surprised when you see who brings you this letter. My friend and I far prefer to meet each other on friendly terms, rather than in the battlefield as we have had to do. Isn't that interesting? Lafayette's letter. One of the letters that General Washington writes is sent by one of the British officers to London. He sends one of those letters via the British officer. So it's a different time, it's a different place. The armies do not fight in the wintertime during the Valley Forge period in North America. Why was it such a surprise when Washington crossed the river at Trenton? Because this was wintertime, this was Christmas. What are you doing here, General Washington? [ laughter ] >> Nancy Loane: Have you not read our manual? We don't fight in the wintertime. But Washington crossed the river and surprised the [inaudible] during -- the year before the Valley Forge Encampment. A very different time. Thank you for bringing that up. Any other questions? Yes? >> [Inaudible]. >> Nancy Loane: Yes. Thank you. Yes, we do have two very good documented people about that, Deborah Sampson [phonetic] being one. Oh, I'm so sorry. Did any of -- thank you. Did any of the women pick up arms? Yes. We have two very good examples of that, Deborah Sampson being one. She received a pension for her service with the Army. Another one is Anna Maria Lane [phonetic]. She also received a pension for her service with the Army. Deborah Sampson is believed, by the way -- way, to be possibly the first woman speaker who is paid for her services. Deborah Sampson, who went around -- the description of her is that she turned out to be charming. The person who write it said I was very surprised. She was charming, she had all her teeth he said. [ laughter ] >> Nancy Loane: She was charming and she spoke very well about the subject. And he just found her delightful. But she picked up arms, she was a soldier. She received compensation for her duties in the Army, as did Anna Maria Lane. On the other hand, if people came into the Army and were -- and were caught early on, they were taken out of the Army right away. The Continental Army did not approve of women dressing as soldiers and acting as soldiers. That was not encouraged. These women did this on their own, and were able to keep their identity secret. Yes. Any other questions? Well I thank you so, so much. What a wonderful audience, although we have half our audience now than we did in the beginning. I hope that doesn't say anything personally. [ laughter ] >> John Cole: You were warned. >> Nancy Loane: Yes I was. Thanks so much. >> John Cole: Thank you, Nancy. [ applause ] : This has been a presentation of the Library of Congress.