>> From the Library of Congress in Washington DC.
[ Silence ]
>> This morning we have another in our series of the Digital Future
and You that is coordinated by Judith Cannan and Angela Kinney
who are Chiefs in the ABA area.
They have been doing this series of programs
for maybe five to ten years.
And we try to bring in speakers and presenters that help keep our staff
across what's going on in the world related to automation techniques
and other inventions that will help us in carrying out our work.
We have been working with Deborah Fritz who is our speaker today along
with her husband, Richard Fritz, all for the past 12 months
or so since the US RDA Test Coordinating Committee started
looking at RDA, adapting RDA and looking at what needs to be in place
for RDA to be adapted by the Library Community.
And one of those areas had to do with looking at prototypes
and how RDA mapped to the current MARC environment
and that would help ease the process for catalogers
and others who'd be using RDA to have a look
and see how these work in this new environment.
And part of what we've been doing is working with a prototype
that she has developed and it'll be part of what she presents today
and I'll talk a bit more about that when I talk
about her credentials and background.
I also want to say that we have ran out of handouts.
We did not expect such an overflow crowd so to speak.
That is-- there's some seats over here for those
of you how are standing in the doorway.
But we will-- Susan Morris will make additional copies.
Susan, if you raise your hand for those who don't know you and those
who want copies of the handout, you can just send Susan an e-mail
and drop by and pick up extra copy.
So we're asking you to share what you have today right here
in this program.
Deborah Fritz was trained in the Art of Cataloging and I like that phrase
as a former cataloger, I should say former cataloger.
I still say I'm a cataloger [inaudible]
and so I haven't done any--
[Laughter] [Inaudible Remark] That's the University of Toronto's Bachelor
of Library and Information Science as it was called at that time.
Since then, she's been engaged in cataloging, she's catalogued
in libraries, she's managed retrospective conversion projects.
One of those that she mentioned is UTLAS.
And for anyone who'd-- who remembers UTLAS,
that's data [inaudible] place and time.
She had some appreciation with that.
She is also, in fact, along contract cataloging business,
she'd work for regional consortium in Florida first
as a training coordinator and then as an executive director.
In 1992, she started her own cataloging training
and consulting software company, The MARC of Quality.
We might know that if we evolve from the MARC format to something else,
he may need to change that to something like TMQ.
>> Great. [Laughter]
>> But that's the topic for a future digital future youth program
that we have planned by April 7 where we will update you
on our progress on the bibliographic framework initiative which may lead
to the replacement or [inaudible] to the MARC.
She's also cataloging with AACR2 and MARC21 in its second edition now,
and MARC21 for Everyone, both published by ALA editions.
Now, she's been teaching cataloging workshops locally,
that means in Florida, around the US
and indeed internationally since 1988.
Now, instead of writing cataloging with RDA and MARC21
to replace cataloging with AACR2 and MARC21, she and Richard decided
to take a different path and so they decided to focus on figuring
out how software could be designed
to assist catalogers who work with RDA.
The RIMMF that is RDA Metadata in Many Formats software that she is
about to present to us will show you the first step in that direction.
Now, she wants us to be forewarned that this is--
there is much, and we emphasize much, more that can be done
with cataloging software to simplify the cataloging process what RDA
really takes hold.
So with that, we welcome Deborah and I turn the floor over to you.
Thank you, Deborah.   >> Thank you, Beacher.
[ Applause ]   >> Well, welcome to this brief demo.
Hopefully brief, I want to say how much I appreciate the chance
to be here and to talk to you.
And I also really want to encourage you to ask questions at anytime
if you have any, interrupt me and ask questions, suggestions,
anything that you've got.
As Beacher said, we're calling this thing I'm about to should you RIMMF,
because it stands for RDA in Many Metadata Formats
and we think that's how RDA is meant to work that you're going to be able
to enter RDA data in some sort of a form and there'll be lots of forms
out there once things get going.
Hopefully, with lots of help for you, lots more help
than the current cataloging software offers.
And then the data should be able to be exported
in whatever format you choose to use whether it is XML or RDF or MARC.
It-- many metadata formats is coming.
Before I went-- get into details, I want to remind you that we do intend
to make room freely available for unlimited use
in any way except commercial use.
And we've got our Creative Commons license up on our Wiki
where we are going to be putting the software available for download
and it is very, very close to being available for general release.
We've sent it to a few selected people to iron
out the glitches before we let it out to the public.
On the first page of the handout you're given,
you'll find the link to our RIMMF Wiki.
And if you go there, you will find that you can only see the first page
until you click log in and register and you can register
with a fake name, it doesn't matter,
we just want to know how many people are getting in and doing things.
So, once you click on the registration,
then you get to the user guide and lots of other things
that we are working on improving as we get there, and you can download
and start playing with RIMMF.
All right, so, one of the things we were promised about RDA way back
in the beginning was that it would be simpler to do a bunch
of things that we currently do.   And I do believe that one
of the things RDA will make simpler is the ability
to create better cataloging software and better discovery software but,
you know, for us, cataloging is more important than discovery
if you're a real cataloger.
[Laughter] I shouldn't say that, should I?
No, that's not true at all.   Discovery is the end result.
So discovery is the most important thing, but I still care most
about the cataloging software.
[Laughs] All the good programmer should need is the underlying stuff
and that's what we still need to get the official element list
in the schema/application profile or whatever you're going to call it.
Then once we get that going, you'll get lots
of people ready to write software.
Now, one of the things I do for a living is teach cataloging workshops
and they are always very practical in how to do it.
So last year, I started working on my own RDA workshop
and I'm calling that Rudimentary RDA.
But I found that even though I have been trying to learn RDA for years
and I've been asking questions of dozens of people begging
and pestering them, I still couldn't wrap my brain around how I was going
to explain RDA thinking to the type of level of people that I work with,
who are very practical people.
They haven't already dedicated huge chunks of time to learning RDA,
how do I get them to understand what this is about.
So I decided being very visual that I needed an input form.
So I went looking for an input form so I could see RDA in action.
I couldn't find anyone even talking about making an input form.
Everyone just said, "Oh, that'll be easy.
We'll get to it sometime."
So we decided, "Hey, if it's that easy, we'll do it."
So, my husband, Richard, who is my business partner
in TMQ is our programmer.
We have a couple of other cataloging software programs
and he said he would work on it for me.
And it-- we've got it to the point where within a month,
he had something that was good enough
to change my entire point of view about RDA.
I went from being I don't know what I'm doing, to this might work.
So, what is RIMMF?
Well, we designed RIMMF primarily as a visualization tool.
This is not cataloging software for you to use to actually make records.
It is-- got potential as a cataloging training tool,
but its real purpose is to help you to see RDA thinking in action.
We did find that as we went along, in order to get you
to not be frightened by it, we had to keep putting more things into it
and so it actually does do things to our great surprise.
You can make a record.
You can clone a record which is what I call creating a different edition
or a near match.
You can copy a record and you can link between records.
It does things because that's the only way you can really get an idea
of how much difference there is in RDA thinking and AACR thinking.
It's in the doing that the different really shows.
So, we think we've got RIMMF to the point where it's useful
for showing RDA thinking.
We also think it might be useful for visualizing MARC mapping,
any additional elements that we might need in MARC,
any additional elements we might need in RDA, what's missing
between the two, and for developing the elements
at list and the schema possibly.
So we're hoping that it can be useful in those areas as well.
Now, before I show you RIMMF in action, I do just want
to explain the rationale behind our design of RIMMF
so that you understand where we're coming from with it.
As all of you undoubtedly already know,
if you have three very similar resources to catalogue,
and here are three children's books containing Bemelmans' story,
Madeline, AACR/MARC has make three records for those resources
which will have much the same content in all three records.
There's a lot of repetition in the bibliographic records.
It is my understanding that RDA will have this described and linked.
One work linked in this case to one author, one expression,
and three manifestation records.
Now, I always have to say this, forgive me calling them records,
I still don't know what else to call them.
So for the time being, I will call them records.
We only have to enter a link to the creator once,
to the work entity record, and we can put in here the summary
and the illustrations and the awards.
They will be entered only once in the expression record
and then the things that are specific
to each manifestation will be entered
in the smaller manifestation records.
If another publisher releases another English text version
of Bemelmans' Madeline, I always pick the examples that are hard
to say, I don't know why I do that.
Then all we have to do is create another manifestation entity record
for it and link that entity record to the same expression
which is linked to the work and the author.
And when a new expression comes along, for example Spanish version
of Madeline, we will use the same work record,
create a new expression entity record for the new expression,
link that expression to the work of course, it has a translator
so we'll link the translator to the expression and then link it
to the new manifestation.
From here, it is up to the OPAC designers, all of them out there
to figure out how to link each of those sets
of data elements and display them nicely.
And they could display them in something
like this hierarchical display.
Here's our author with his works listed.
And under Madeline, we have the brief record for--
work record for Madeline, that's all we know about her at this point,
then down to the expressions, two of them,
and the manifestations under each one of them.
It could look like that, but it could look completely different.
Now, notice if you can see, it's very small on your screen
but the displays contain punctuation.
That punctuation is not entered when you enter your data
in the RDA input form as you will see,
it will be up to the OPAC designers to insert the punctuation
when they display that information in their OPACs.
All right, so with this further approach to entities
and their relationships to each other in mind, we started working
on the input form that I hope would help me
to wrap my brain around RDA thinking.
So we went looking for the list of all the data elements
that could be provided for each entity and for instructions on how
to relate those entities together.
We were hoping that that was already out there and we could just use it.
We couldn't find anything that was machine actionable.
Many presentations, many explanations, but nothing that,
as a programmer, you could simply say, "Here, do it."
So we had to pull that together for ourselves.
Now, we provide some of this explanation about our design
in the handout you were given and the opening page
of the RIMMF Wiki also provides this information under RIMMF structure.
So down here where it says RIMMF structure if you make it
to the Wiki page, you will find all of what's in the handout.
Since the term cataloging seems to be going out of style
in this new world, I am suggesting RIMMFing [laughter] might be a
suitable replacement.
And so, you will also find a brief tutorial
on RIMMFing a resource on that Wiki.   It may not take off but hey.
If you log in, as I said, and go to the user guide,
you can also see examples of all
of the default templates I'm about to show you.
I didn't bother to put them in the handout because they're on the Wiki.
So you'll be able to see blank templates for each entity
on the Wiki under this section.
All right, now, remember that one of our main goals for RIMMF is for it
to be a visualization tool
for thinking RDA instead of thinking MARC.
So we designed it to show RDA thinking even though some
of that thinking should rarely be hidden
from more efficient data entry.
When it comes to actually using it, much of what I'm going
to show you will be hidden.
I am showing you the skeleton, the framework to all
of the structural stuff so that you understand the thinking.
So, here's the top level for opening RIMMF, file, new record for,
and then a list of the possible entity records
that you are going to fill out.
And I am going to start with just some screen shots
and then I'll show it to you live.
So, here is where we got this idea of an approach
from in the RDA toolkit under the Tools tab is the element set view
and there, they list all of the entities.
So we have all of the entities in RIMMF.
Under, if you open those tabs up under the element set view,
RDA helps us provide data elements for attributes
and for relationships for each entity.
So RIMMF does the same with that, attributes and relationships.
And we added our own captions
to separate the elements out logically that way.
We then moved from the element set view
to the RDA guidelines themselves in the table of contents and saw
that they broke the attributes and the relationships of each entity
into different categories.
You have attributes for identifying the manifestation versus attributes
for describing the carrier for the manifestation.
So there are two different types of attributes.
So we did that in RIMMF, identifying and describing.
So let's say that you were going to begin
by describing the manifestation aspects
of the resource that you have.
You would open the manifestation form and see under attributes
for identifying the manifestation the different elements
that RDA says will help to identify this particular manifestation
of the resource that you are trying to describe.
Some of these elements are then broken
down into more specific sub-elements.
You don't just enter tittle,
you enter these specific types of title information.
Now, not all of these elements and sub-elements are going to be needed
for every type of resource, wizards would be able
to customize the templates and you would say, in early questions,
you know exactly what are you describing and it'll to bring
up templates that are customized for just that type of material.
Whatever the software is, it will do that.
We have no wizards at this point.   It's still just very basic.
Now, I'm not going to look at all
of the identifying elements at this point.
I'll show you them in more detail when we go into action.
So right now, let's just go on and briefly glance at the attributes
for describing carriers for the manifestation, separate sections,
or separate caption in RIMMF.
After you described the carrier, then we're asked
to consider adding information about attributes for providing acquisition
in access information for the manifestation.
So another section, availability, contact information, et cetera.
Once you've done all the relevant data about attributes
for the manifestation, we are to think about the thing
that is really interesting in RDA and that is relationships.
That's where it really starts getting fun.
So here, you see a list of the possible relationships
that could apply to a manifestation and could prove the important
or just the interesting for catalog users.
So, for us to figure out the relationship stuff,
we had to pull it from three different sections
of the toolkit, the guidelines.
But we found nothing that simply said,
"This is what you do with relationships."
So we went into each of these sections and pulled
out what appeared to be the relationships for each type
of entity and grouped them under this section of relationships.
All right, moving on to items.
I'm not going to talk about it in detail.
You can add a lot more item specific information in RDA
than I ever thought of doing in AACR, and there's the list of--
the high level list should help anyone trying
Once you've got your manifestation and your item, then you can think
about the work, that would be my next step.
I'd jump up to think about work.
And there, we would start with the attributes of the work
that identified this particular work, and whatever you can put
down that uniquely identifies this work.
Now, there are a few elements in the toolkit list that we didn't include.
We are still trying to figure out how to deal with a few
of those elements, but everything that looked reasonable
to bring over, we brought over and put in.
We also wanted to point out the rule for constructing access points
to represent works and expressions which turned
out to be authorized access points and variant access points.
These are not on the element set view and so we added them
as TMQ elements which you can identify anywhere.
We've done that with the dagger.
Anything without the dagger is an official RDA element,
anything we had to add to make it work,
we put in with the dagger indicating this is local.
All right, once you've identified the work,
you've added all the elements to identify the work,
catalogers then would move on to describing content of the work.
And then, consider the relationships that apply at the work level,
creators of various types, other persons, families
or corporate buddies related works.
Some subject relationships will apply here when that gets into RDA,
the instructions for COEP, concept, object, event, and place,
haven't been completed yet, so we have place holders for them in RIMMF
as well but nothing ready yet.
Once you've done your work, you can then go down and do your expression
of the work and again, it starts with the identifying elements
to identify this particular expression and attributes
for describing content at the expression level.
Notice that illustrative content applies to every manifestation
of this expression, so it is at the expression level.
Then we have relationships that apply at the expression level
which they basically call contributors of various types,
editors, translators, illustrators, and then related expressions
like translations of a particular expression of something.
So again, you don't-- I'll show you in a bit, you don't have
to know where everything fits.
It prompts you to fill in what fits where.
Okay. So it's going to be a lot easier.
There are also some subject relationships
at the expression level, but again, that's not ready yet.
So that's our rationale for adding the captions that you're going
to see in the templates that I'm going to be showing you
in this demo, grouping things logically just
to help you to think straight.
If the groupings don't appeal, we also send RIMMF
out with a default element list that is simply sorted
in element name order which I find very difficult to think through,
but if you like it that way, it's there.
And you can also sort that template in RDA rule number order at a click
of a button, and that is a lot more logical
because they did design the RDA rules in a logical order.
It's just not the normal order we are used to, but it is very logical.
So, let's see this in action, bearing in mind, again,
that this is a visualization tool, so it is a little raw
and it doesn't do everything which you might want.
So, say you're a copy cataloger.   Those are the people I mostly teach
so I always start with copy cataloging.
You have this in your handout, sense and sensibility.
You would start where you always start with a search
and the most common starting place for searching would be an ISPN.
If you do that, you're going-- and you found a hit,
you'd bring up a manifestation record.
Let's say you don't have a hit, so you try again this time
with an author and a title.
If you do that, you are going to bring up a work level
because that's the kind of information found
in your work record most of the time.
So we bring up our work and it also brings
up all the expressions of the work.   That's my thinking.
I mean, all-- other people might design something different
but if I was designing it, that's what I would do.
Now, this is obviously a very small database
because there's only four expressions
of sense and sensibility.
It's in a tree format like I showed you from Madeline and this is
from the catalogers' point of view.
So it's going to look similar to how I imagine an OPAC could look.
What we want to see is whether one
of these expressions will match what we have.
So hopefully, the persons who made the records, putting up information
in the expression record that I can identify from a list,
which expression I want to further investigate.
So add more to your expressions.   That is my advice.
Chinese, this isn't going to help us,
but any of these three could be matches for what I've got.
Let's say that the cataloging software has the plus signs
and if I extend, expand, I can see more.
There isn't anything much more about this particular expression.
It's a little bleak, but this one has supplementary content
which is an introduction by Ross Ballester.
So I'm very much recommending that you add the supplementary content
because that tells me whether that's going to work for me.
This one has different supplementary content.
Under RDA, the presence of different supplementary content means the
different expression because it changes your experience of the work.
All right, so the thinking is there, we've got different expressions.
Now, looking at what you've got there, we have additional content.
What is it?   Making you think--
[ Inaudible Remark ]   Well, it's in your handout.
[Laughter] That's why I gave it to you.
We've got a different editor and an introduction by Tony Tanner, right?
So we've got supplementary content and introduction by Tony Tanner.
So, this one isn't going to match.
The Ross Ballester, this one is not going to match the David Gates.
This one could if that cataloger didn't bother
to mention the supplementary content.
So we're going to need you to look at that
which is why I'm saying please add supplementary content
at the expression level.   It'll help with copy cataloging.
Now, I have to do some techy steps for just one second
to switch over to the light.   [ Pause ]
All right.
Now, I'm going to get you to do something.
Let's see how good an audience you are.
You have this in the handouts so you don't have to squint.
You see the printouts of the WEMI records, I stripped these
down so what we ended up with for this particular example was,
one item record, one manifestation, one expression, and one work, right?
There are others but that's describing our resource.
I stripped them down to only the kinds of things we might show
in an OPAC view so a lot
of underneath hidden things have disappeared.
Just for the fun of it, I'm going to get you if you have the handout
to write the type of entity
that each record is describing in this entity box here.
So looking at that-- this information, try and figure
out what is this describing.
And these are whammies, so just write, you know, is it a work,
is it an expression, is it a manifestation
or is it an item, in that top box.
If you don't have a handout then, if you'd squint really hard [laughs]
and see if you can figure it out from the screen.
[ Pause ]
Okay. I know that you're-- the ones who've done it are really quick.
Oh, and flip over on then other side of the handout, there is two more.
What kind of entities are they?   So write those down.
All right, now let's see how you did.
[Laughs] Now, I'm going too fast.   [ Pause ]
It's because you don't all have copies of the handout.
So let's go on because you don't.
I don't want to bore the rest of them.
So, here's how it worked.
The first one was an item which you could tell
from the identifier for the item element.
Second one was a manifestation, the third was an expression,
Got it all?
Okay. All three of these are person entities.
Now, if you can, draw the links, write the links.
That's what I wanted you to do.
Write the number, the RIMMF identifier for the records
that you would link to the item.
And then do the same for each of these, but let me just show it
to you because we are running out of time.
The RIMFF identifier for the item would go
in the manifestation relationship link.
And the RIMFF identifier for the manifestation would go
under relationships in the item record.
So it's back and forth, up and down item in manifestation.
The manifestation is going to link to the expression
and the expression link to the manifestation
through the RIMFF identifier.
The numbers are what we use to do the linking.
The-- in this case, they're numbers, the identifiers,
it's what we use to do the linking.
The expression is a little more challenging because it links
up to the manifestation and down to the work.
So it's got up and down, up and down.
And then the persons linked to their appropriate records,
Ron who we didn't see a record for to the item, Jane to the work,
and Tony to the expression, okay?
And we did all of that in the example we saw.
And here's another way of displaying it that might be a little easier
to see, Jane linked to work,
Tony linked to expression, and Ron linked to item.
You described the attributes or characteristics
of the four levels associated with the resource, whammy.
You link the four levels together
so that they can be pulled together for a display.
And then you also link the appropriate levels to any people,
family, or corporate bodies associated with those levels.
All right, any questions?   Yes?
>> I realized that all I see are two people at this point in time.
I can probably [inaudible] going to make more sense
if assuming you've determined the work is not something you already
have, you know, the [inaudible].   But first ask, is this a new work?
If it isn't a new work and I have an existing work,
is this is a new expression?
And then there's no-- there is non-existing of--
if there is an existing expression, is this a new manifestation?
And I would suggest it might be similar to something [inaudible]
that are common to all work, adding work, example the summary.
Madeline is the same story no matter what language.
Shouldn't that be part of the work, part of the [inaudible]?
And then like here where you're using the editor to define
which distinguished one [inaudible] from another,
instead of having the editor do all the manifestation
within the expression.
So that when you're cataloging, you would work, yeah, this is common
to all works, transfer the data, so that's the data, how would we do it?
Next the expression, well, Tony Tanner is common to all
of that expression, why repeat the manifestation,
because by definition, every manifestation of that work has
to be the edited by it since that every expression
of Madeline has had the same summary.
>> We didn't put Tony with the manifestation.
We put Tony with the expression as a relationship.
We did add a statement of responsibility for Tony
to the manifestation, so that when you were trying to, again,
do copy cataloging, you would be able
to recognize does this manifestation match the item I have in my hands.
>> But every expression has the same statement of responsibility--
>> No, no, it might have a different statement.
They might have slightly different wording even though it is the
same expression.   They might have added the end.
So it's-- transcription always goes at manifestation,
but you're asking RDA questions, and really, I'm just trying
to show you what RIMFF does with what RDA tells us to do.
And RDA, makes that pretty clear and it's just that RIMFF helps you
to know what to do instead of-- it makes it a illogical throw--
flow-through to see, now, where do I put that information
because it's on this form.
Now if I've got it on the wrong form, I'll be happy to do move it
but so far, it seems like it is in the right place.
Any other question?   Yes?
[ Inaudible Remark ]
As a copy cataloger especially with the barcodes, now, being scannable
on the back of the book, that's where most people start.
They scan the barcode and bring up a manifestation.
[Inaudible Remark] If you were creating an original,
I'm going to show you that in a minute,
but I still start with the manifestation.
[Laughter] But that is entirely my personal preference.
You can start at any level in RIMFF if you want to.
It's just what's logical.
Remember that you can log in to our Wiki, the RIMFF Wiki,
and read the user guide, you can see how all of it works.
I have put up a little tutorial, the one called RIMFFing a Resource.
So, any other questions?   We do still have five minutes.
Yes?   >> Have you tried music?
>> I have not.   But I'm looking forward to it.
I'm really looking forward-- [laughter]
>> We got-- I'm not trying to make these issues but you will find
that the expression entity is infinitely more complicated once you
get to performed workds and once you get to repertory which exists
in thousands of manifestations, yes, Western art and music repertories--
>> Sure, and I believe that the number
of links will just get extremely long
and then the relationship tree will get extremely long.
But I wanted-- I'm looking for you to try.
[Background noise] I mean that's--   >> We all should.
>> No, I don't know enough about music.
So I'm going to need some help with that one.
Maybe I was standing too far back.   Yes?
>> I guess, it is something interesting to try,
how about a textbook that has connected to it a [inaudible] manual
and officially published study guide,
unofficially published study guide website--
>> That one is going to be easy.   That one is going to be so easy.
Because of the relation-- it was so hard in AACR but it is going to be
so easy because of the different--
you just make a little record for each of them and relate them.
>> Statutes where the most of the expression--
the manifestation accounts
for [inaudible] librarians is the official one which is usually
at the government's website now used to publish.
But then [inaudible] also it's with places.
>> Again, I guess those would be separate manifestations
that you might link with the related manifestation or not.
It might just list under the expression as another manifestation.
Again, that one is not going to be so hard.
Serials going to be--   >> Yeah.
>> Interestingly enough, the serial added entry might make a come back
at JSC 'cause we've got serial relationships, right?
And if you're going to get in to relationships,
that's another relationship.   I am really looking forward to--
there are some more challenging collections where they are not
as clean as that three novels together, which are going
to be a little more challenging mentally to figure out.
RIMFF is not going to have a problem with any of these.
It's just the case of working out how it's done.
And then we will be able to see what it looks like
and that might make some changes to what they say to do
because it doesn't look right.
That's the whole purpose of this, to start making things
that you can see what it's going to look like
and then see where the problems are.
Maybe it is going to be such a major issue for music that they may have
to rethink a few things to make it work better.
>> They have to--
>> They, the JSC, the RDA people, the-- [Laughter] Yeah.
>> Yeah.   >> The music community.
>> The music community, everyone who's involved
with they kind of make that thing work.
[Laughter] Yes?
>> I think the same might hold for serials
that have changed their titles
where the manifestations have changed titles
at different intervals how to make all those
of appropriate relationships at the expression and work level.
>> Yes
>> So when you get to that point, I'd love to hear how it goes.
>> Or work with me to help me do to do
that because I will get very stuck on serials.
[Laughter]   >> Okay.
>> Very quickly.   But yes, it could be--
>> That's a deal?
>> It could be very interesting to do the changing back and forth.
Maybe we don't need to do that anymore because of their links.
I don't know.   Yes?
>> Many of these [Inaudible] where there is simply cataloger
who has been working with-- on the [inaudible].
>> Yes.
>> I'm seeing your [Inaudible] like it's helping greatly
with the relation-- building the relationships which is wonderful.
But we also built-- I'm sure you're familiar with the macros with,
I'm not sure if you know of it--   >> No.
>> But do you have macros that do some of the things that seem
to be a bit cumbersome on each individual level.
For example, the carrier et cetera, we have a [inaudible] with this kind
of thing, [inaudible] seeing now.
So, some of this is going to be a lot less cumbersome from our end.
>> Yes.
>> And when you do have the wizard and all these extra films
that are not needed
for the particular thing we were working with,
that would also make it symbolistic--
>> Yes.   >> -- as complicated.
Then we could basically focus on the function,
on the relationships rather than to building directors themselves.
>> That's right.
And the wizards will do the macros that you're talking about,
whether it's in RIMFF which is remembered not a cataloging tool
but a visualization tool,
but whoever does the real stuff will be doing this macros
because it will be easy to do them because they will be lined
out in the schema/application profile.
And it is 11 o'clock and I'm very sorry but I have to stop now.
[Applause] Thank you.
>> This has been a presentation of the Library