WEBVTT

00:01.520 --> 00:05.510 align:start
>> From the Library of
Congress in Washington DC.

00:05.510 --> 00:24.210 align:start
[ Pause ]

00:24.210 --> 00:25.260 align:start
>> Good afternoon.

00:25.260 --> 00:28.920 align:start
I'm Guha Shankar, staff
member and folklorist here

00:28.920 --> 00:31.140 align:start
at the American Folklife
Center and on behalf

00:31.140 --> 00:33.110 align:start
of Center Director
Dr. Betsy Peterson,

00:33.110 --> 00:36.300 align:start
I want to extend the center's
collective welcome and thanks

00:36.300 --> 00:38.170 align:start
for attending the latest installment

00:38.170 --> 00:42.480 align:start
in the American Folklife Center's
Benjamin A. Botkin Lecture Series.

00:42.480 --> 00:45.760 align:start
The talk for today as you see behind
me is entitled Reflections on Memory

00:45.760 --> 00:48.080 align:start
and History: Collecting
New Oral Histories

00:48.080 --> 00:51.570 align:start
of the Civil Rights movement
for the Library of Congress

00:51.570 --> 00:55.280 align:start
and the Smithsonian NMAAHC,
short for the National Museum

00:55.280 --> 00:57.150 align:start
of African American
History and Culture,

00:57.150 --> 00:59.570 align:start
I'll stick with NMAAHC
for future reference.

00:59.570 --> 01:01.400 align:start
And our guest speaker
here is Joe Mosnier.

01:01.400 --> 01:05.020 align:start
For the purpose of allowing our
guest speaker the maximum allotted

01:05.020 --> 01:09.200 align:start
time to both present his work
and to interact with you all,

01:09.200 --> 01:11.070 align:start
I'll make my remarks
both brief and quick.

01:11.070 --> 01:13.510 align:start
If you want to catch anything
I've said because you missed it,

01:13.510 --> 01:16.580 align:start
you can of course watch this
eventually on our web screens

01:16.580 --> 01:21.250 align:start
which are produced and presented
on Library of Congress website.

01:21.250 --> 01:23.550 align:start
The Botkin lectures, I wanted
to acknowledge first of all,

01:23.550 --> 01:26.510 align:start
were coordinated and produced by our
in-house programming section staff

01:26.510 --> 01:31.020 align:start
which includes our coordinator Nancy
Groce, Jonathan Gold, Steve Winick,

01:31.020 --> 01:34.280 align:start
Thea Austen, Stephanie Hall,
all the members of that section.

01:34.280 --> 01:39.100 align:start
The series itself is structured
so as to allow us all to look

01:39.100 --> 01:42.920 align:start
into the work of scholars
whose work resonates with

01:42.920 --> 01:46.560 align:start
or has brought parallels
with the missions, aims,

01:46.560 --> 01:48.970 align:start
and scope of the center
in the library.

01:48.970 --> 01:53.340 align:start
This particular lecture then is
rather special in this regard

01:53.340 --> 01:57.970 align:start
because Joe Mosnier's presentation
draw us explicitly from a collection

01:57.970 --> 02:01.130 align:start
that has very recently been acquired
for the center and which is known

02:01.130 --> 02:03.900 align:start
as the Civil Rights
History Project Collection.

02:03.900 --> 02:05.750 align:start
What is the Civil Rights
History Project?

02:05.750 --> 02:12.630 align:start
Well, my one visual
aid, on May 12, 2009,

02:12.630 --> 02:16.300 align:start
the United States Congress passed
a Civil Rights History Project Act,

02:16.300 --> 02:20.080 align:start
Public Law 111-19.

02:20.080 --> 02:22.780 align:start
The law directs the
Library of Congress

02:22.780 --> 02:26.310 align:start
and the Smithsonian's
NMAAHC to conduct first,

02:26.310 --> 02:28.890 align:start
a survey of existing oral
history collections with relevance

02:28.890 --> 02:31.230 align:start
to the Civil Rights
movement, and subsequently,

02:31.230 --> 02:34.830 align:start
to record new interviews with people
who participated in the movement,

02:34.830 --> 02:37.050 align:start
Civil Rights movement
or movement for freedom.

02:37.050 --> 02:38.550 align:start
The survey information
which you see,

02:38.550 --> 02:40.920 align:start
the portal behind me
representing a year's worth

02:40.920 --> 02:44.150 align:start
of diligent archeological
work by a team of researchers

02:44.150 --> 02:47.790 align:start
who were directed by the AFC
is now available worldwide

02:47.790 --> 02:49.880 align:start
through a library website.

02:49.880 --> 02:51.900 align:start
The survey data will
eventually migrate

02:51.900 --> 02:54.140 align:start
to a more comprehensive
web portal on the topic

02:54.140 --> 02:55.710 align:start
of the Civil Rights movement.

02:55.710 --> 02:58.260 align:start
Principally, it will feature the
interviews and other materials

02:58.260 --> 03:00.710 align:start
from both LOC and SI collections.

03:00.710 --> 03:02.380 align:start
So this is a development, hopefully,

03:02.380 --> 03:05.400 align:start
we're trying to get this
launched some time soon.

03:05.400 --> 03:08.920 align:start
Apart from the web presence itself,
the interview has become a part,

03:08.920 --> 03:12.620 align:start
a permanent part of the National
Library and the National Museum.

03:12.620 --> 03:15.610 align:start
And at the library, the Civil Rights
History Project Collection joins a

03:15.610 --> 03:18.960 align:start
rich and diverse corpus of
historical materials pertaining

03:18.960 --> 03:21.400 align:start
to the specific topic
of the movement

03:21.400 --> 03:25.030 align:start
such as NAACP Collection created
by our very own Adrienne Cannon,

03:25.030 --> 03:28.020 align:start
portions of the Alan Lomax
Collection and several others

03:28.020 --> 03:31.410 align:start
which are available to
you all as researchers.

03:31.410 --> 03:33.200 align:start
As you can imagine a
project of the scale

03:33.200 --> 03:36.890 align:start
and size involves many moving
parts in three major culture

03:36.890 --> 03:40.140 align:start
and education institutions, and we
want to make to acknowledge them.

03:40.140 --> 03:41.950 align:start
I'll begin with our
partners and collaborators

03:41.950 --> 03:44.020 align:start
of this Smithsonian's NMAAHC.

03:44.020 --> 03:47.290 align:start
The core operational team there
consists of Elaine Nichols,

03:47.290 --> 03:48.920 align:start
but whom I will say
more in just a minute,

03:48.920 --> 03:51.420 align:start
and Carlos Bustamante,
Project Coordinator.

03:51.420 --> 03:53.920 align:start
And I must also mention this
terrific predecessor whom we work

03:53.920 --> 03:57.590 align:start
with since the launch of the project
some two years ago, Marion Gill.

03:57.590 --> 04:00.490 align:start
Also, at the SI, I want to
be particularly cognizant

04:00.490 --> 04:02.000 align:start
of noting the management
of leadership

04:02.000 --> 04:05.640 align:start
at the museum who've been
instrumental in sending the project

04:05.640 --> 04:07.640 align:start
to date including Director
Lonnie Bunch,

04:07.640 --> 04:09.760 align:start
Deputy Director Kinshasha
Holman Conwill

04:09.760 --> 04:11.790 align:start
and Rex Ellis, Director of Research.

04:11.790 --> 04:14.930 align:start
On the FAC side of the equation,
I will note the core members

04:14.930 --> 04:17.060 align:start
of the CRHP without
whose work and talents,

04:17.060 --> 04:18.960 align:start
nothing would ever get done.

04:18.960 --> 04:21.170 align:start
They are Maggie Kruesi,
Kate Stewart,

04:21.170 --> 04:24.370 align:start
[inaudible] Bert Lyons [inaudible]
and their various capacities,

04:24.370 --> 04:27.550 align:start
their response for
the care and feeding

04:27.550 --> 04:29.600 align:start
of the collections as it were.

04:29.600 --> 04:32.540 align:start
I would be remiss not to
mention the thoughtful direction

04:32.540 --> 04:35.240 align:start
of our former director, Dr.
Peggy Bulger who is now departed

04:35.240 --> 04:38.700 align:start
from the warm and sunny
climate of Florida, I think,

04:38.700 --> 04:40.230 align:start
she's somewhere on
the beach somewhere.

04:40.230 --> 04:44.230 align:start
And David Taylor who worked on the
project before he left but only

04:44.230 --> 04:47.750 align:start
within the library right over
here in the Madison Building.

04:47.750 --> 04:51.090 align:start
Our other major partner of course
is the Southern Oral History Program

04:51.090 --> 04:53.130 align:start
of the University of North
Carolina at Chapel Hill

04:53.130 --> 04:55.770 align:start
which on their contract with
the NMAAHC has been responsible

04:55.770 --> 04:59.630 align:start
for the documentation that is
recording our actual interviews,

04:59.630 --> 05:02.490 align:start
[inaudible] coordinates
logistics there.

05:02.490 --> 05:05.240 align:start
Our guest speaker, Joe Mosnier,
has been the principal interviewer

05:05.240 --> 05:08.210 align:start
in almost all of the
recordings to date.

05:08.210 --> 05:11.120 align:start
And John Bishop, the veteran
ethnographic film maker has been the

05:11.120 --> 05:14.450 align:start
videographer and responsible for
the stunning images you will see.

05:14.450 --> 05:17.640 align:start
Now, let me finally
introduce Dr.-- Ms.

05:17.640 --> 05:19.680 align:start
Elaine Nichols who will tell
you bit about the NMAAHC

05:19.680 --> 05:21.260 align:start
and its work on the CRHP.

05:21.260 --> 05:23.660 align:start
A native of Charlotte,
North Carolina,

05:23.660 --> 05:27.930 align:start
acclaimed temporary residence
in Charlotte for awhile,

05:27.930 --> 05:30.070 align:start
Ms. Nichols is currently the
senior curator of culture

05:30.070 --> 05:33.030 align:start
at the Smithsonian's NMAAHC
and the project curator

05:33.030 --> 05:35.240 align:start
for the Civil Rights
History Project.

05:35.240 --> 05:37.200 align:start
She is responsible for
helping to develop several

05:37.200 --> 05:40.900 align:start
of the museums inaugural exhibitions
including musical crossroads,

05:40.900 --> 05:43.890 align:start
popular culture, visual arts
and culture expressions.

05:43.890 --> 05:46.160 align:start
She's the curator of the
Cultural Expressions Gallery

05:46.160 --> 05:49.290 align:start
which explores African-American
aesthetics, style, and adornment,

05:49.290 --> 05:53.480 align:start
food ways, religion, and the
literary and performing arts.

05:53.480 --> 05:56.290 align:start
Prior to beginning her work at
the NMAAHC, Ms. Nichols worked

05:56.290 --> 06:00.300 align:start
at the South Carolina State
Museum from 1989 until 2009.

06:00.300 --> 06:03.840 align:start
And while at the museum, she serves
as a guest curator and later curator

06:03.840 --> 06:07.160 align:start
of history where she worked at
several on site original exhibitions

06:07.160 --> 06:09.850 align:start
and was also responsible
for mounting a number

06:09.850 --> 06:12.750 align:start
of traveling exhibitions
incorporating South Carolina stories

06:12.750 --> 06:13.680 align:start
and themes.

06:13.680 --> 06:16.210 align:start
Ms. Nichols has a Masters in
Public Service and Archeology

06:16.210 --> 06:18.030 align:start
from the University
of South Carolina,

06:18.030 --> 06:21.870 align:start
Masters in Social Administration and
Planning from Case Western Reserve.

06:21.870 --> 06:24.510 align:start
Please welcome Ms. Elaine Nichols.

06:24.510 --> 06:30.070 align:start
[ Applause ]

06:30.070 --> 06:31.610 align:start
>> Good afternoon.

06:31.610 --> 06:35.080 align:start
I'm feeling somewhat like
I'm almost at an AMA church

06:35.080 --> 06:39.630 align:start
where a hierarchy has already been
established by Guha and I want

06:39.630 --> 06:43.320 align:start
to say thank you and thank
you for mentioning by name all

06:43.320 --> 06:47.140 align:start
of the individuals who are part
of this important partnership.

06:47.140 --> 06:52.610 align:start
On behalf of our Director Lonnie
Bunch, I bring you greetings.

06:52.610 --> 06:56.560 align:start
No longer must we walk in our
land our strength unknown,

06:56.560 --> 07:01.420 align:start
our knowledge obscure for we
are heirs to historic roots,

07:01.420 --> 07:04.600 align:start
we've traveled far
and we found our way.

07:04.600 --> 07:10.580 align:start
All of our dreams, our aspirations,
have taken hold and have bear fruit.

07:10.580 --> 07:16.430 align:start
I've shared with you an excerpt from
Mary Ansie [phonetic] short poem.

07:16.430 --> 07:20.230 align:start
Their walk was not easy because
the Civil Rights History Project

07:20.230 --> 07:24.880 align:start
represents an important measure to
ensure that the memories of those

07:24.880 --> 07:29.190 align:start
who have been heirs to historic
roots, who have traveled far,

07:29.190 --> 07:33.110 align:start
had dreams and aspirations
continue to bear fruit.

07:33.110 --> 07:38.230 align:start
The Civil Rights History Project has
been a very successful partnership

07:38.230 --> 07:41.960 align:start
wherein the National Museum of
African American History and Culture

07:41.960 --> 07:44.730 align:start
and the Library of Congress
have diligently worked

07:44.730 --> 07:50.450 align:start
to support the 2009 Congressional
Mandate to capture the memories

07:50.450 --> 07:55.080 align:start
and reflections of unsung heroes
of the Civil Rights movement.

07:55.080 --> 07:58.540 align:start
We are indeed thankful to
represent it to Carolyn McCarthy,

07:58.540 --> 08:02.920 align:start
represent it to John Louise,
and Senator Dianne Feinstein

08:02.920 --> 08:07.150 align:start
for assuming the leadership and
making the legislation possible.

08:07.150 --> 08:10.250 align:start
The modern Civil Rights movement
can rightly be associated

08:10.250 --> 08:12.270 align:start
with the period after World War II

08:12.270 --> 08:15.430 align:start
when many African-American
soldiers returned

08:15.430 --> 08:18.460 align:start
from the battlefield fighting
against Hitler's racism

08:18.460 --> 08:23.710 align:start
and imperialism to face ongoing
racism and discrimination at home

08:23.710 --> 08:26.720 align:start
but it is much, much more than that.

08:26.720 --> 08:31.220 align:start
By the late 1950s, the movement had
begun to establish full momentum

08:31.220 --> 08:34.990 align:start
and some major victories starting
with the 1954 Brown versus Board

08:34.990 --> 08:39.000 align:start
of Education, the 1955
Montgomery Bus Boycott,

08:39.000 --> 08:43.250 align:start
and the 1957 desegregation
of central high school

08:43.250 --> 08:45.550 align:start
in Little Rock, Arkansas.

08:45.550 --> 08:48.260 align:start
During the Civil Rights
movement of the 1960s,

08:48.260 --> 08:52.910 align:start
movement workers were involved in
large scale direct action, marches,

08:52.910 --> 08:56.600 align:start
sit-ins, boycotts,
and demonstrations.

08:56.600 --> 09:01.230 align:start
Public Law 111-19 that Guha
referred to earlier says that,

09:01.230 --> 09:04.430 align:start
"Those who participated in the
Civil Rights movement from the 1950s

09:04.430 --> 09:10.060 align:start
and the 1960s are shining example
of the fundamental principle

09:10.060 --> 09:13.840 align:start
of American democracy that
individual should stand

09:13.840 --> 09:18.100 align:start
up for their rights and
beliefs and fight for justice.

09:18.100 --> 09:21.190 align:start
Participants in the Civil Right
movement demonstrated this principle

09:21.190 --> 09:22.310 align:start
of action.

09:22.310 --> 09:24.370 align:start
They possessed an invaluable
resource

09:24.370 --> 09:28.510 align:start
in their first-hand memories of
the movement, and the recording

09:28.510 --> 09:32.360 align:start
of the retelling of their stories
and memories will provide a rich,

09:32.360 --> 09:37.600 align:start
detailed history of our nation doing
an important and tumultuous period."

09:37.600 --> 09:42.910 align:start
The Civil Rights History Project
interviews will become an important

09:42.910 --> 09:46.680 align:start
part of the National Museum of
African-American History and Culture

09:46.680 --> 09:49.910 align:start
when it opens on the mall in 2015.

09:49.910 --> 09:52.180 align:start
We will note now we've
had a groundbreaking

09:52.180 --> 09:55.820 align:start
and there's a large hole there and
construction work is occurring.

09:55.820 --> 09:58.310 align:start
These interviews will
be a valuable resource

09:58.310 --> 10:01.230 align:start
for museum visitors whether
they are part of exhibitions,

10:01.230 --> 10:04.040 align:start
public programs, or educational
programs for teachers and students.

10:04.040 --> 10:08.470 align:start
They will also be included
in the archival collections

10:08.470 --> 10:11.830 align:start
that will be made available
to scholars, researchers,

10:11.830 --> 10:14.060 align:start
and the general republic alike.

10:14.060 --> 10:19.300 align:start
Because of the many
exceptional leaders, supporters,

10:19.300 --> 10:20.950 align:start
and grassroots activists,

10:20.950 --> 10:24.380 align:start
we continue to be heirs
of great historic roots.

10:24.380 --> 10:28.420 align:start
The legacy of the Civil Rights
movement has been extensive.

10:28.420 --> 10:32.480 align:start
The Civil Rights movement has been
the model for international civil

10:32.480 --> 10:37.490 align:start
and human rights movements that
have benefited women, the elderly,

10:37.490 --> 10:41.130 align:start
the physically and mentally
challenged, gays, lesbians,

10:41.130 --> 10:44.700 align:start
bisexuals, and transgender persons.

10:44.700 --> 10:48.090 align:start
It begun as a movement
to secure racial equality

10:48.090 --> 10:51.820 align:start
for African-Americans and has
generated many other movements

10:51.820 --> 10:56.000 align:start
of inclusivity and empowerment.

10:56.000 --> 10:59.140 align:start
And now, I would like to
introduce Dr. Joseph Mosnier.

10:59.140 --> 11:03.960 align:start
In March 2011th, the National
Museum of African American History

11:03.960 --> 11:08.720 align:start
and Culture contracted with the
University of North Carolina

11:08.720 --> 11:12.700 align:start
at Chapel Hill Southern Oral History
Program to hire Joseph Mosnier

11:12.700 --> 11:15.550 align:start
as lead interviewer
and project manager,

11:15.550 --> 11:18.550 align:start
and John Bishop as a videographer.

11:18.550 --> 11:23.420 align:start
Beginning in April of 2011
and ending in September

11:23.420 --> 11:28.000 align:start
of that same year, Dr. Mosnier
conducted 50 interview sessions

11:28.000 --> 11:33.280 align:start
in 30 cities and in 20 states
including the District of Columbia.

11:33.280 --> 11:35.980 align:start
Dr. Mosnier has consistently
just demonstrated

11:35.980 --> 11:40.990 align:start
that he is a serious scholar of
oral history, southern history,

11:40.990 --> 11:44.010 align:start
racial history, and
American history.

11:44.010 --> 11:48.470 align:start
For the interviews that he conducted
and then I was able to observe,

11:48.470 --> 11:50.710 align:start
he was always a consummate
professional

11:50.710 --> 11:53.930 align:start
who was always well prepared.

11:53.930 --> 11:57.650 align:start
His research reflected adept
in breadth of analysis related

11:57.650 --> 12:01.210 align:start
to the lives of each
individual that he interviewed,

12:01.210 --> 12:04.120 align:start
as well as the broader
social and political contexts

12:04.120 --> 12:07.210 align:start
of the specific communities.

12:07.210 --> 12:11.570 align:start
More than anything, I appreciate
Joseph Mosnier for the treatment

12:11.570 --> 12:15.200 align:start
that he accorded every
person that he met.

12:15.200 --> 12:18.270 align:start
He respected the people and
he respected their stories

12:18.270 --> 12:21.650 align:start
as precious artifacts of memory.

12:21.650 --> 12:24.050 align:start
Personal memories are
essential not only

12:24.050 --> 12:27.360 align:start
because they help people make
sense of their experiences

12:27.360 --> 12:30.160 align:start
and order their lives
in meaningful ways.

12:30.160 --> 12:34.080 align:start
They help others to understand
and interpret those memories

12:34.080 --> 12:36.810 align:start
as valuable documentary resources.

12:36.810 --> 12:40.910 align:start
The work of collecting these oral
histories is critical as many

12:40.910 --> 12:43.460 align:start
of the contributors are passing away

12:43.460 --> 12:47.090 align:start
and we are losing this
valuable information.

12:47.090 --> 12:50.640 align:start
We are indebted to Dr.
Mosnier for his dedication

12:50.640 --> 12:53.820 align:start
to helping us preserve
those important stories

12:53.820 --> 12:56.510 align:start
in a most honorable way.

12:56.510 --> 13:06.340 align:start
[ Applause ]

13:06.340 --> 13:07.800 align:start
>> Hello everybody.

13:07.800 --> 13:10.210 align:start
Thank you so much for coming out.

13:10.210 --> 13:13.460 align:start
Elaine and Guha have kindly
allowed me to dispense

13:13.460 --> 13:16.880 align:start
with at least the first three or
four pages of my notes which had

13:16.880 --> 13:20.070 align:start
to do with all of those complicated
relationships, and thanks.

13:20.070 --> 13:21.760 align:start
I echo their thanks.

13:21.760 --> 13:23.200 align:start
I want to thank Elaine
for that very--

13:23.200 --> 13:24.990 align:start
those very generous
remarks, thank you.

13:24.990 --> 13:28.340 align:start
I want to say a quick
and easy note about Guha.

13:28.340 --> 13:30.750 align:start
He has picked up a huge
portion of this project

13:30.750 --> 13:31.860 align:start
and put it on his shoulders.

13:31.860 --> 13:33.380 align:start
I knew you have lots of help
from your great colleagues

13:33.380 --> 13:36.320 align:start
but I appreciate that and we have
appreciated that all across the way.

13:36.320 --> 13:38.530 align:start
It's been great to work with Elaine
and her colleagues at the museum.

13:38.530 --> 13:39.970 align:start
It's been a real privilege.

13:39.970 --> 13:44.100 align:start
There are-- besides echoing those
thanks to the people already noted,

13:44.100 --> 13:48.160 align:start
I want to call out just a few names.

13:48.160 --> 13:53.310 align:start
These are RAs, research assistants,
graduate research assistants

13:53.310 --> 13:56.420 align:start
at the Oral History Program in
Chapel Hill who did research

13:56.420 --> 13:59.490 align:start
that was just instrumental and
absolutely essential to the project.

13:59.490 --> 14:02.070 align:start
So let me just record their names
here, I think it's important.

14:02.070 --> 14:06.980 align:start
Liz Landeen, Anna Krome-Lukens,
Kim Coutts, David Williard,

14:06.980 --> 14:10.110 align:start
Rob Ferguson, Brandon
Winford, and Hudson Vaughan.

14:10.110 --> 14:11.370 align:start
I really tip my hat to those guys.

14:11.370 --> 14:14.010 align:start
They did work that was
absolutely essential

14:14.010 --> 14:17.910 align:start
to the success of the project.

14:17.910 --> 14:18.940 align:start
Let me jump right in.

14:18.940 --> 14:20.940 align:start
My ambition here today, really,

14:20.940 --> 14:23.820 align:start
is to share with you just
some preliminary reflections

14:23.820 --> 14:27.940 align:start
about this project, its character,
what we've done, and really, then,

14:27.940 --> 14:31.350 align:start
open it up to some converse to--
I hope a very vibrant conversation

14:31.350 --> 14:34.960 align:start
because we're just the first
year into what will be five years

14:34.960 --> 14:38.210 align:start
of interviewing as the museum
and the library move forward

14:38.210 --> 14:41.040 align:start
with the project and
feedback from folks like all

14:41.040 --> 14:43.940 align:start
of you will be essential to allow
us to do our very best work.

14:43.940 --> 14:46.860 align:start
So please jump in with
any thoughts, criticisms,

14:46.860 --> 14:50.770 align:start
observations that will be
very helpful to all of us.

14:50.770 --> 14:54.100 align:start
I think, I think Guha,
we can probably--

14:54.100 --> 14:57.320 align:start
I'm going to share just
a few short video clips.

14:57.320 --> 14:59.010 align:start
There will be four.

14:59.010 --> 15:04.320 align:start
I'll talk for probably-- oh,
I'll try to do it in 25 minutes

15:04.320 --> 15:07.880 align:start
and then we'll have, you know, the
final 15 or 20 minutes to talk.

15:07.880 --> 15:13.330 align:start
So this will just sort of
introduce you to some of the flavor

15:13.330 --> 15:15.710 align:start
of what we are-- what
we're recording.

15:15.710 --> 15:18.580 align:start
>> These are the people
that made the history.

15:18.580 --> 15:24.000 align:start
And, what I have said to myself as
part of admission is it's one thing

15:24.000 --> 15:27.780 align:start
to read about it, it's
another thing to acerbate,

15:27.780 --> 15:30.940 align:start
talk to the people who lived it.

15:30.940 --> 15:35.220 align:start
It's something like the [inaudible]
about Jesus Christ who came

15:35.220 --> 15:38.280 align:start
down off the cross and
that was-- that was Thomas.

15:38.280 --> 15:43.340 align:start
Put your finger in the
wound where the spear was

15:43.340 --> 15:47.200 align:start
and I tell this [inaudible], come
and take to the people that went

15:47.200 --> 15:50.230 align:start
to jail, the people
whose houses were bombed,

15:50.230 --> 15:52.020 align:start
the people who were put out of job.

15:52.020 --> 15:54.180 align:start
Come and see them.

15:54.180 --> 15:55.640 align:start
These were real people.

15:55.640 --> 15:57.690 align:start
This is not fiction.

15:57.690 --> 15:59.190 align:start
These were real people.

15:59.190 --> 16:02.290 align:start
>> Kind of do a little
bit of tree of life again?

16:02.290 --> 16:02.690 align:start
[Background music]

16:02.690 --> 16:04.510 align:start
>> As you know.

16:04.510 --> 16:41.680 align:start
[ Music ]

16:41.680 --> 16:43.070 align:start
>> Okay, I'll start off.

16:43.070 --> 16:48.360 align:start
My name is Gwendolyn Annette
[inaudible] and I was born

16:48.360 --> 16:55.160 align:start
and raised in Lincolnville of Saint
Augustine, Florida, June 28, 1956.

16:55.160 --> 16:57.020 align:start
>> I was born in Manhattan.

16:57.020 --> 17:04.960 align:start
I was born in Hungarian Yorkville
which at that time extended

17:04.960 --> 17:08.540 align:start
from 79th street to 72nd street.

17:08.540 --> 17:16.240 align:start
>> I was born in Tallahassee,
Florida, November the 28th, 1929.

17:16.240 --> 17:22.810 align:start
>> Well, I was born on June
23rd 1954 in Winslow Hospital

17:22.810 --> 17:28.440 align:start
which was a one-floor
hospital that was reserved

17:28.440 --> 17:33.570 align:start
for the colored citizenry of
Danville, Virginia, so to speak.

17:33.570 --> 17:39.580 align:start
>> We can go down in downtown of
Oklahoma City and shop in a store

17:39.580 --> 17:42.910 align:start
where you could not try on a hat.

17:42.910 --> 17:45.400 align:start
You could not try on shoes.

17:45.400 --> 17:49.990 align:start
When my grandmother went to buy me
shoes, she had to take some thread

17:49.990 --> 17:55.240 align:start
and tie a knot in it to
determine the size of shoe

17:55.240 --> 17:57.720 align:start
that she would buy for me to work.

17:57.720 --> 18:01.670 align:start
You could not eat in any restaurant.

18:01.670 --> 18:04.300 align:start
You would have to go to
the back of the restaurants

18:04.300 --> 18:07.320 align:start
and they would pass you a brown bag.

18:07.320 --> 18:10.720 align:start
Come on and keep walking
with me in Oklahoma City.

18:10.720 --> 18:18.770 align:start
>> Let me say a word about
the persons we talked to.

18:18.770 --> 18:22.240 align:start
What-- who comprised
this list of 50 sessions.

18:22.240 --> 18:25.000 align:start
I should note as you saw
with the [inaudible] ones,

18:25.000 --> 18:27.370 align:start
there were some sessions that
had multiple contributors,

18:27.370 --> 18:29.580 align:start
so an interview with
more than one person

18:29.580 --> 18:32.150 align:start
but those were the
distinct minority.

18:32.150 --> 18:34.630 align:start
I think person-- counting
up all the persons together,

18:34.630 --> 18:38.720 align:start
there were probably 65 or so
contributors in 50 sessions.

18:38.720 --> 18:43.080 align:start
They were nonviolent activists
who marched and went to jail.

18:43.080 --> 18:46.520 align:start
They were key movement
strategists who struggled

18:46.520 --> 18:48.740 align:start
to find a viable path forward.

18:48.740 --> 18:50.580 align:start
They were singers,
they were musicians,

18:50.580 --> 18:53.420 align:start
they were journalists
who spread the word.

18:53.420 --> 18:58.220 align:start
And they were certainly
also individuals encouraged

18:58.220 --> 19:01.430 align:start
to more radical positions
by loss and violence

19:01.430 --> 19:03.460 align:start
and systematic oppression.

19:03.460 --> 19:07.330 align:start
On that list of 50
sessions, there are names,

19:07.330 --> 19:10.200 align:start
probably I would guess only
three or four you might

19:10.200 --> 19:14.970 align:start
as a general audience recognize,
people like Reverend Joseph Lowery,

19:14.970 --> 19:21.290 align:start
Reverend Charles Sherrod, Mr.
Pete Seeger, Mr. Jack Greenberg.

19:21.290 --> 19:25.990 align:start
All the remaining names, I
would think that it's unlikely

19:25.990 --> 19:28.770 align:start
that unless you knew the field of
Civil Rights really pretty closely

19:28.770 --> 19:30.080 align:start
that you would have
heard of these folks.

19:30.080 --> 19:31.360 align:start
It's just the nature I think

19:31.360 --> 19:37.360 align:start
of a vast movement involving many
thousands of people in many, many,

19:37.360 --> 19:40.570 align:start
hundreds of places that we
don't know their stories.

19:40.570 --> 19:45.680 align:start
So as Elaine and Guha have
already helped to explain,

19:45.680 --> 19:48.800 align:start
I think that's the core purpose of
this project to go on and recover

19:48.800 --> 19:51.310 align:start
and capture and preserve
these voices.

19:51.310 --> 19:57.120 align:start
Let me now shift to talking
about a couple of the themes

19:57.120 --> 19:59.110 align:start
that we find in the material.

19:59.110 --> 20:01.010 align:start
Some familiar, some a little bit new

20:01.010 --> 20:02.280 align:start
but this will give
you a further sense.

20:02.280 --> 20:06.260 align:start
I'll run a second clip
and this will suggest some

20:06.260 --> 20:09.620 align:start
of that multiplicity of experience.

20:09.620 --> 20:13.230 align:start
These will be-- as we sat down with
all these folks a common question

20:13.230 --> 20:16.060 align:start
as we found our way into the
interview would be talked about,

20:16.060 --> 20:19.680 align:start
explain how it was that in your life
you became involved in the movement.

20:19.680 --> 20:22.920 align:start
So we have a couple of clips that
talk about how people stepped

20:22.920 --> 20:31.450 align:start
into an engaged role
in the broad movement.

20:31.450 --> 20:33.660 align:start
>> Everyone I knew
is like, [inaudible].

20:33.660 --> 20:40.930 align:start
I've seen that photograph and it
was like a clarion call for action.

20:40.930 --> 20:46.290 align:start
And that we got older, we would
like to avenge this stuff.

20:46.290 --> 20:48.060 align:start
I mean I can remember the
feeling that's so strong.

20:48.060 --> 20:51.130 align:start
And I remember putting those
hands for the Americans,

20:51.130 --> 20:54.970 align:start
each time there was an article of
that and it's okay to send in trial

20:54.970 --> 20:58.300 align:start
and I kept the scrapbook,
I wish I kept it near.

20:58.300 --> 21:01.450 align:start
I remember they want to--
they're taking it up to my--

21:01.450 --> 21:05.790 align:start
play mama's house but yet these
teenage girls will be a play Mama.

21:05.790 --> 21:09.150 align:start
They were like nice
to you and so on.

21:09.150 --> 21:12.340 align:start
Adult-- young sis-- younger
sister [inaudible] was Model

21:12.340 --> 21:12.740 align:start
Stuart [phonetic].

21:12.740 --> 21:19.200 align:start
I remember when they're taking
this scrapbook to her house

21:19.200 --> 21:23.990 align:start
and I remember lying on
the floor on my stomach.

21:23.990 --> 21:29.110 align:start
Flipped them through and [inaudible]
me to her, I remember crying

21:29.110 --> 21:34.140 align:start
and feeling so terribly vulnerable
but at the same time feeling

21:34.140 --> 21:36.190 align:start
that one day I'm going to
do something about this.

21:36.190 --> 21:39.940 align:start
That was always the feeling that
you can see these horrible things

21:39.940 --> 21:43.630 align:start
happening to people but one day,
it's not going to be like this

21:43.630 --> 21:46.170 align:start
because I am going
to help to change it.

21:46.170 --> 21:51.160 align:start
>> And I saw in the Philadelphia
newspaper a photograph

21:51.160 --> 21:52.070 align:start
on the front page.

21:52.070 --> 21:55.400 align:start
There's a photograph of a patty
wagon from the back and then

21:55.400 --> 22:00.600 align:start
with these girls-- high school girls
in the back and they're all singing

22:00.600 --> 22:01.940 align:start
and they were being
cornered off to jail.

22:01.940 --> 22:04.580 align:start
And I was just so intrigued,
there's a bit of girls,

22:04.580 --> 22:06.620 align:start
they're high school girls,
I'm a high school girl.

22:06.620 --> 22:09.840 align:start
These are people in Georgia
challenged in segregation and going

22:09.840 --> 22:13.210 align:start
to jail and I was just
extraordinarily impressed.

22:13.210 --> 22:15.130 align:start
I mean, I was more than impressed.

22:15.130 --> 22:18.080 align:start
I wanted to be like them.

22:18.080 --> 22:22.220 align:start
>> What I realized was that all of a
sudden, something was more important

22:22.220 --> 22:26.690 align:start
than going back to do my assignments
in Howard for the weekend,

22:26.690 --> 22:29.820 align:start
something even more
important than maybe a party

22:29.820 --> 22:33.980 align:start
that might be happening
on a Saturday night.

22:33.980 --> 22:38.000 align:start
Something was more important
than what my mother might think

22:38.000 --> 22:43.210 align:start
about my future, or how this might
fall in her career, and all that.

22:43.210 --> 22:45.780 align:start
That's all I think about,
liberation, it was real sense

22:45.780 --> 22:47.960 align:start
that all of a sudden, I was
making a stand, it could be a--

22:47.960 --> 22:50.670 align:start
kind of have been about
something entirely different

22:50.670 --> 22:53.480 align:start
but I was thinking to stand from
what I wanted my life to be,

22:53.480 --> 22:56.820 align:start
you know, and well, I was
aware of other's opinions.

22:56.820 --> 22:59.780 align:start
I was doing well and
really wanted a degree.

22:59.780 --> 23:02.350 align:start
And I was willing to take whatever
responsibility, in this case,

23:02.350 --> 23:06.290 align:start
getting arrested before from
that sense that was really, like,

23:06.290 --> 23:08.510 align:start
it was crossing the
Rubicon,[inaudible]--

23:08.510 --> 23:12.030 align:start
and it was very much--
thing, this is now my life--

23:12.030 --> 23:12.430 align:start
>> Yeah.

23:12.430 --> 23:15.300 align:start
>> And I'm going to live it
and face the consequences.

23:15.300 --> 23:17.090 align:start
>> Let me say a little bit about--

23:17.090 --> 23:19.910 align:start
a little bit more about each of
those three contributors there.

23:19.910 --> 23:23.310 align:start
Some of you may recognize the first
speaker, that's Dr. Joyce Ladner,

23:23.310 --> 23:25.700 align:start
the prominent sociologist and
the first woman to be president

23:25.700 --> 23:27.960 align:start
of Howard University
here in the district.

23:27.960 --> 23:30.430 align:start
We interviewed her together
here in the district

23:30.430 --> 23:33.230 align:start
with her sister Ms. Dorie Ladner.

23:33.230 --> 23:40.880 align:start
The second speaker
Mr. Phil Hutchings--

23:40.880 --> 23:44.230 align:start
oh sorry, you also saw Kathleen
Cliber [phonetic], excuse me.

23:44.230 --> 23:49.120 align:start
Just as this remarkable life
experience kind of swept up into--

23:49.120 --> 23:54.250 align:start
through having met Eldridge
Cleaver swept up into the experience

23:54.250 --> 23:58.900 align:start
at the Black Panther Party
from the mid-60s forward.

23:58.900 --> 24:03.770 align:start
Mr Phil Hutchings, the last speaker
in that clip, his roles ranged

24:03.770 --> 24:07.260 align:start
from student participation when
he was a student in the early '60s

24:07.260 --> 24:11.460 align:start
at Howard with the nonviolent action
group, one of the early affiliates

24:11.460 --> 24:14.640 align:start
of the news-- Student
Nonviolent Coordinating Committee.

24:14.640 --> 24:17.470 align:start
They protested down Route 40.

24:17.470 --> 24:24.470 align:start
He moved on to significant roles
in SNCC, in STS and, in fact,

24:24.470 --> 24:28.540 align:start
he was the National chair
of SNCC at that time

24:28.540 --> 24:31.510 align:start
when they were making tremendous
effort to try to keep those forces

24:31.510 --> 24:33.810 align:start
of disintegration from
really breaking

24:33.810 --> 24:37.310 align:start
that critical institution
apart there in the late '60s.

24:37.310 --> 24:39.680 align:start
He reached out to try to
build alliances with Core,

24:39.680 --> 24:43.380 align:start
with the Panthers, with
Chicano groups, and with others.

24:43.380 --> 24:47.390 align:start
His narrative says much about
the effort to bring the movement

24:47.390 --> 24:51.140 align:start
from the south into
northern urban settings.

24:51.140 --> 24:54.300 align:start
There are couple other people who
come to mind when I think back

24:54.300 --> 24:57.730 align:start
about the broad issue of
stepping into the movement.

24:57.730 --> 25:00.310 align:start
We don't have clips but
let me talk about two.

25:00.310 --> 25:04.360 align:start
You did see briefly Mr.
Evans Hopkins talking

25:04.360 --> 25:07.640 align:start
about his origins in
Danville, Virginia.

25:07.640 --> 25:11.230 align:start
In 1971, let me just
illustrate the kinds of things

25:11.230 --> 25:13.640 align:start
that we discover in
his conversations.

25:13.640 --> 25:16.390 align:start
In 1971, he was just
17 years old living

25:16.390 --> 25:19.360 align:start
in Danville, a very difficult place.

25:19.360 --> 25:21.600 align:start
Met some persons who were involved

25:21.600 --> 25:25.930 align:start
in a very active Black Panther Party
community house in Winston-Salem,

25:25.930 --> 25:28.980 align:start
North Carolina where
he moved in 1971.

25:28.980 --> 25:31.120 align:start
Within about 12 months,
he was in Oakland

25:31.120 --> 25:33.500 align:start
at the Black Panther Party
National Headquarters working

25:33.500 --> 25:36.000 align:start
as a journalist for
the party newspaper.

25:36.000 --> 25:41.750 align:start
And he, as so many, in fact almost
all of our contributors was able

25:41.750 --> 25:45.350 align:start
to present such a nuanced
and detailed account

25:45.350 --> 25:49.140 align:start
of his life experience across
those kinds of remarkable shifts

25:49.140 --> 25:52.160 align:start
and ranges of experience
that you really can, I think,

25:52.160 --> 25:57.190 align:start
walk a little bit in those shoes and
see that experience through his eyes

25:57.190 --> 26:00.510 align:start
and it makes those kinds of
choices I think quite intelligible

26:00.510 --> 26:02.810 align:start
in a very direct and immediate way.

26:02.810 --> 26:07.130 align:start
I think of one other person too
about on the theme of stepping

26:07.130 --> 26:12.690 align:start
into the movement, how one
could, almost by accident

26:12.690 --> 26:17.070 align:start
at times, just be pulled in.

26:17.070 --> 26:23.060 align:start
Richard B. Sobol in the summer
of 1965 was a young lawyer

26:23.060 --> 26:26.720 align:start
who had recently joined Arnold
& Porter, a major firm here

26:26.720 --> 26:28.760 align:start
in DC even to this day of course.

26:28.760 --> 26:33.470 align:start
And in the summer of '65, he had
a perfect, you know, IV resume

26:33.470 --> 26:36.860 align:start
and exactly the right things in
his background as a young lawyer

26:36.860 --> 26:39.180 align:start
to rise right through the ranks
and become a very powerful

26:39.180 --> 26:41.980 align:start
and economically successful
attorney here in the district.

26:41.980 --> 26:44.920 align:start
But in the summer of 1965,
he was very much interested

26:44.920 --> 26:46.580 align:start
in all the things happening
in the south

26:46.580 --> 26:49.080 align:start
which he had watched very
closely and he volunteered

26:49.080 --> 26:53.000 align:start
to take a three-week stint with
a newly created lawyers' group

26:53.000 --> 26:55.970 align:start
that was trying to help pitch
in and provide legal services

26:55.970 --> 27:00.090 align:start
to the movement in New Orleans,
went down for three weeks

27:00.090 --> 27:01.580 align:start
and he basically never came home.

27:01.580 --> 27:07.950 align:start
He walked away from a career that
would have been secure in one way

27:07.950 --> 27:09.820 align:start
and then instead engaged in a life

27:09.820 --> 27:12.690 align:start
of direct contribution
to the movement.

27:12.690 --> 27:15.820 align:start
He would play a very
significant roles in attorney

27:15.820 --> 27:19.390 align:start
in the federal courts litigating
employment schools and other issues

27:19.390 --> 27:24.900 align:start
and he also provided direct legal
assistants to the activist community

27:24.900 --> 27:29.110 align:start
in Bogalusa, Louisiana about
30 miles north of New Orleans

27:29.110 --> 27:31.400 align:start
where there was just some
extraordinary Civil Rights history

27:31.400 --> 27:34.450 align:start
that played out.

27:34.450 --> 27:39.100 align:start
Let me talk now and
shift to a second theme.

27:39.100 --> 27:43.150 align:start
We learned in this material as
well or in this interviews as well,

27:43.150 --> 27:48.140 align:start
we found some fabulous examples
in those stories that people told

27:48.140 --> 27:52.660 align:start
of some of the pre1960s
antecedents to the movement that.

27:52.660 --> 27:54.310 align:start
Elaine had pointed out, of course,

27:54.310 --> 27:58.100 align:start
the movement's roots go way back far
beyond 1960 but in popular telling

27:58.100 --> 28:00.480 align:start
of the Civil Rights
movement, oftentimes the--

28:00.480 --> 28:03.140 align:start
or quite often anyway that
the kick off point is taken

28:03.140 --> 28:06.900 align:start
to be the February 1, 1960 sit-in
at the Woolworth's Counter--

28:06.900 --> 28:08.550 align:start
Lunch Counter in Greensboro,
North Carolina,

28:08.550 --> 28:09.790 align:start
and actually I'll say something

28:09.790 --> 28:12.930 align:start
about that history
in a moment as well.

28:12.930 --> 28:17.440 align:start
But, we have a clip
that will talk a little

28:17.440 --> 28:23.510 align:start
about a couple pre-1960 movement
antecedents and if we can--

28:23.510 --> 28:27.550 align:start
[ Pause ]

28:27.550 --> 28:30.450 align:start
Not-- oh sorry, Guha, can you shift?

28:30.450 --> 28:32.310 align:start
>> Okay. No problem.

28:32.310 --> 28:35.220 align:start
That's it, that's all.

28:35.220 --> 28:35.620 align:start
>> No?

28:35.620 --> 28:36.130 align:start
>> No.

28:36.130 --> 28:38.510 align:start
>> It would start with--

28:38.510 --> 28:44.990 align:start
[ Pause ]

28:44.990 --> 28:47.920 align:start
It would start with-- excuse me.

28:47.920 --> 28:52.760 align:start
We might not brought that clip.

28:52.760 --> 28:54.330 align:start
Let me just describe this.

28:54.330 --> 28:57.600 align:start
There are two, just to make sure
we can find it later if it's there.

28:57.600 --> 29:03.560 align:start
We went to Oklahoma City and
met with-- intending in fact,

29:03.560 --> 29:07.250 align:start
to meet with the woman
named Mrs. Clara Luper.

29:07.250 --> 29:10.280 align:start
Mrs. Luper is one of those
extraordinary people who,

29:10.280 --> 29:13.830 align:start
when it was-- of course it
wasn't never easy but one

29:13.830 --> 29:18.810 align:start
of this particularly difficult
through the mid 1950s began all

29:18.810 --> 29:21.580 align:start
of that hard work, that
organizing that's necessary to sort

29:21.580 --> 29:25.660 align:start
of create the pattern of resources
requisite for a sustained movement.

29:25.660 --> 29:30.470 align:start
She led in the Oklahoma
City NAACP Youth Council.

29:30.470 --> 29:36.050 align:start
And in 1958, the 14 members of that
Youth Council Chapter ranging in age

29:36.050 --> 29:39.240 align:start
from 6 to 16 and including
two of her children.

29:39.240 --> 29:44.220 align:start
One of them, Marilyn Luper, she
will be Marilyn Luper-Hildreth

29:44.220 --> 29:47.150 align:start
and you saw her briefly in
those introductory remarks,

29:47.150 --> 29:50.670 align:start
and her brother, Mr. Calvin Luper.

29:50.670 --> 29:53.230 align:start
They were meeting one day
and the idea was hatched

29:53.230 --> 29:56.060 align:start
by Ms. Hildreth, then a 10-year-old.

29:56.060 --> 29:57.740 align:start
Why don't we go down and protest

29:57.740 --> 30:01.040 align:start
at the Katz Drugstore
counter, and indeed they did.

30:01.040 --> 30:06.570 align:start
And this is one of the stories that
doesn't much get any attention.

30:06.570 --> 30:11.410 align:start
But in 1958, two years before
they kickoff of what we think

30:11.410 --> 30:15.390 align:start
of as the activist sit-in phase of
the movement, there were members

30:15.390 --> 30:18.370 align:start
of the African American Community in
Oklahoma City including children led

30:18.370 --> 30:21.490 align:start
by Mrs. Luper at the Katz
Drugstore counter and then amazing--

30:21.490 --> 30:23.470 align:start
oops, excuse me, the
amazing thing happened.

30:23.470 --> 30:29.300 align:start
In three days, Katz capitulated,
as did, in short order,

30:29.300 --> 30:33.080 align:start
a couple of other statewide
Oklahoma-based department

30:33.080 --> 30:33.980 align:start
store chains.

30:33.980 --> 30:37.750 align:start
Some others fought and didn't
but they had this early success

30:37.750 --> 30:41.630 align:start
within the boundaries of the State
of Oklahoma but it kind of passed

30:41.630 --> 30:43.510 align:start
without too much attention.

30:43.510 --> 30:47.160 align:start
And Mrs. Luper and her charges
and others in the community,

30:47.160 --> 30:50.110 align:start
they did a very interesting thing
and this is the kind of thing

30:50.110 --> 30:52.810 align:start
that I think says so
much about this people.

30:52.810 --> 30:57.040 align:start
They pretty much started sitting
in 1958 and they were still sitting

30:57.040 --> 31:02.130 align:start
in years later into the
mid-'60s in Oklahoma City.

31:02.130 --> 31:08.420 align:start
I think of-- I think of
another pre-1960s sort of story

31:08.420 --> 31:09.760 align:start
of antecedents to the movement.

31:09.760 --> 31:12.570 align:start
We went to Columbia, South Carolina

31:12.570 --> 31:17.600 align:start
and interviewed Judge Matthew
J. Perry Jr. Judge Perry,

31:17.600 --> 31:23.400 align:start
African-American graduated from Law
School in South Carolina in 1951

31:23.400 --> 31:28.240 align:start
and began practicing law,
and certainly gave his time

31:28.240 --> 31:32.730 align:start
and attention, and effort took
contesting the racial mores

31:32.730 --> 31:34.930 align:start
and laws of that day.

31:34.930 --> 31:42.110 align:start
In 1956 as a very young attorney, he
successfully challenged segregation

31:42.110 --> 31:45.300 align:start
in South Carolina and
interstate transportation.

31:45.300 --> 31:53.160 align:start
He sued a municipally-operated bus
system and won a decision following

31:53.160 --> 31:58.470 align:start
on the logic of Brown that
that system must desegregate.

31:58.470 --> 32:02.150 align:start
Eighteen months later, that legal
president would be an important case

32:02.150 --> 32:07.420 align:start
sided in the disposition
of Rosa Parks's legal case

32:07.420 --> 32:11.060 align:start
in the Montgomery Bus Boycott.

32:11.060 --> 32:17.410 align:start
The cases of Mrs. Luper in Oklahoma
City, Judge Perry in Columbia,

32:17.410 --> 32:20.680 align:start
South Carolina, if I can just
step to the side for a moment

32:20.680 --> 32:24.020 align:start
to register an additional
point, they suggest,

32:24.020 --> 32:26.150 align:start
and Elaine has made this
point in our opening remarks.

32:26.150 --> 32:28.730 align:start
They suggest the urgency
of this work.

32:28.730 --> 32:35.480 align:start
Here we are some 50, 60 years on
from the period of most active stage

32:35.480 --> 32:41.370 align:start
of the movement through
the '60s and some

32:41.370 --> 32:44.710 align:start
of these people are quite elderly,
and are failing, and indeed,

32:44.710 --> 32:46.390 align:start
we arrived in Oklahoma
City in the case

32:46.390 --> 32:49.240 align:start
of Luper Family expecting
interviewing Mrs. Luper

32:49.240 --> 32:53.910 align:start
but her health had taken a turn for
the worst just as we were arriving.

32:53.910 --> 32:57.560 align:start
So we did the interviews
instead with her adult children.

32:57.560 --> 33:02.450 align:start
In Columbia, we sat down with,
now, Judge Perry and in fact,

33:02.450 --> 33:03.840 align:start
what is the, this is a lovely thing,

33:03.840 --> 33:06.380 align:start
the Matthew J. Perry
Federal Courthouse

33:06.380 --> 33:10.220 align:start
in downtown Columbia
which opened in 2004.

33:10.220 --> 33:12.450 align:start
Judge Perry was the first
African-American elected,

33:12.450 --> 33:14.750 align:start
elevated to the federal
bench by Jimmy Carter

33:14.750 --> 33:18.040 align:start
in '79 in South Carolina.

33:18.040 --> 33:21.820 align:start
Judge Perry was vibrant in his
early '80s, vibrant, active.

33:21.820 --> 33:24.410 align:start
He concluded our 90-minute
interview and said, "I'm sorry,

33:24.410 --> 33:25.890 align:start
but I've got to step
across the hallways

33:25.890 --> 33:28.180 align:start
from my chambers 'cause I'm
running a trial and I got

33:28.180 --> 33:30.350 align:start
to get back to the court."

33:30.350 --> 33:33.310 align:start
But in both cases, the visit
to Oklahoma City and the visit

33:33.310 --> 33:35.760 align:start
to Columbia, within a couple
months, we lost those folks,

33:35.760 --> 33:39.170 align:start
both Mrs. Luper and
Judge Perry passed.

33:39.170 --> 33:44.570 align:start
And so, we are reminded of how we
need to not waste time in getting

33:44.570 --> 33:46.960 align:start
out across the country
to do this work.

33:46.960 --> 33:50.870 align:start
Let's go to Dr. Hayling
clip if we can.

33:50.870 --> 33:53.250 align:start
This will-- this is a third
theme and it's a tough one.

33:53.250 --> 33:55.960 align:start
It's the, you know,
from this distance,

33:55.960 --> 33:58.900 align:start
sometimes we forget the immediacy
of the violence, and the fear,

33:58.900 --> 34:03.510 align:start
and the trauma but it's
everywhere in these interviews.

34:03.510 --> 34:07.690 align:start
[ Pause ]

34:07.690 --> 34:14.440 align:start
>> When we looked up, there
were clansmen with [inaudible]

34:14.440 --> 34:21.430 align:start
in the front of the car
and that wheel of the car

34:21.430 --> 34:25.860 align:start
and [inaudible] was driving the car.

34:25.860 --> 34:31.030 align:start
And he thought he knew
a side road or whatever.

34:31.030 --> 34:40.300 align:start
We were thinking to escape, and
he took the side road and low

34:40.300 --> 34:48.000 align:start
and behold, the clan has built
almost a ditch across the roadway

34:48.000 --> 34:55.260 align:start
and we had to come to a stop to
keep them going in to that ditch.

34:55.260 --> 34:59.930 align:start
And when we knew anything,
we were surrounded clansmen,

34:59.930 --> 35:03.830 align:start
ordered out of the car, and all,

35:03.830 --> 35:12.220 align:start
and the physical punishment
started at that time.

35:12.220 --> 35:17.210 align:start
And they took out wallets
and, you know, personal things

35:17.210 --> 35:22.940 align:start
and in my wallet, they saw my
identity and everything else,

35:22.940 --> 35:29.790 align:start
and also discovered an
NWCP card and that will--

35:29.790 --> 35:39.130 align:start
that was the impetus for them
to really start beating us.

35:39.130 --> 35:42.510 align:start
The beating was so
severe with the ax handles

35:42.510 --> 35:45.250 align:start
and that baseball bats and all.

35:45.250 --> 35:52.790 align:start
Then we were pressured up to
be eventually on stage of that,

35:52.790 --> 35:56.200 align:start
you know, where the speaker was.

35:56.200 --> 36:00.040 align:start
And we will crawl on top of
each of the semiconscious

36:00.040 --> 36:03.480 align:start
like hard wood on top of each other.

36:03.480 --> 36:07.910 align:start
>> What I'm trying to say is
that that day shook my life

36:07.910 --> 36:09.980 align:start
when the horse started charging

36:09.980 --> 36:14.640 align:start
and those white men started
swinging the [inaudible].

36:14.640 --> 36:16.670 align:start
And I must tell you, I was so naïve.

36:16.670 --> 36:21.220 align:start
I'm almost ashamed to admit this
that I kept looking up in the sky.

36:21.220 --> 36:23.410 align:start
Because I had grown
up with this notion

36:23.410 --> 36:27.310 align:start
of guy that's riding chariot
delivering God's children.

36:27.310 --> 36:30.860 align:start
And if you were doing the right
thing then you would be delivered

36:30.860 --> 36:36.970 align:start
and I waited, and waited, and
waited in Ontario, and oh, God.

36:36.970 --> 36:39.510 align:start
>> It was just horrible.

36:39.510 --> 36:45.400 align:start
We slept with our clothes but then
we didn't take our clothes off

36:45.400 --> 36:49.450 align:start
that night, you know, because
the clans went [inaudible].

36:49.450 --> 36:58.610 align:start
It's all around until the men
involved the most of this act

36:58.610 --> 36:59.550 align:start
to do something about it.

36:59.550 --> 37:01.870 align:start
>> I want to say a quick word
about each of those cases.

37:01.870 --> 37:05.750 align:start
Dr. Hayling, he was a young
dentist in St. Augustine, Florida,

37:05.750 --> 37:09.080 align:start
really kindled and led
the movement there.

37:09.080 --> 37:11.570 align:start
As tough as that clip
is, his interview goes

37:11.570 --> 37:16.640 align:start
on to even harder descriptions
which are hard to talk about.

37:16.640 --> 37:20.920 align:start
There were persons in that
clan, assembly, white--

37:20.920 --> 37:24.490 align:start
excuse me, white local
police officers and others

37:24.490 --> 37:27.930 align:start
who were attending the clan
rally as clan rally participants.

37:27.930 --> 37:30.570 align:start
They know Dr. Hayling because
he actually provided their

37:30.570 --> 37:31.430 align:start
dental service.

37:31.430 --> 37:34.850 align:start
There was a de facto
practice in the community

37:34.850 --> 37:37.200 align:start
of that white law enforcement
couldn't effect demand

37:37.200 --> 37:41.440 align:start
with that service from a
person like Dr. Hayling.

37:41.440 --> 37:44.250 align:start
And they knew that
he was right-handed

37:44.250 --> 37:47.460 align:start
so they beat him especially
aggressively on his right side

37:47.460 --> 37:52.640 align:start
to make the effort to damage
his professional prospects.

37:52.640 --> 37:57.470 align:start
There are other very hard aspects
of the story from St. Augustine

37:57.470 --> 38:00.640 align:start
that we recorded in a cluster
of interviews that we did there,

38:00.640 --> 38:03.160 align:start
we did five interviews
in St. Augustine.

38:03.160 --> 38:09.370 align:start
Ms. Ruby Sales, you saw her as the
second person in that sequence.

38:09.370 --> 38:11.270 align:start
She elsewhere tells a story again.

38:11.270 --> 38:13.230 align:start
These are just very
difficult things.

38:13.230 --> 38:16.200 align:start
She tells a story of
being in Hanceville,

38:16.200 --> 38:20.200 align:start
Alabama in the summer of 1965.

38:20.200 --> 38:24.360 align:start
She and others have been jailed for
participation in nonviolent protest

38:24.360 --> 38:29.510 align:start
between Soma in Montgomery and
suddenly on a weekend afternoon,

38:29.510 --> 38:32.870 align:start
although jail door was-- and this
is a very small community obviously

38:32.870 --> 38:35.810 align:start
in the rural south in the mid-'60s.

38:35.810 --> 38:39.990 align:start
Their jail door was drawn up, and
they're all told that you can leave,

38:39.990 --> 38:42.480 align:start
which made them extremely
uncomfortable anticipating

38:42.480 --> 38:44.470 align:start
that a circumstance like
that could only mean

38:44.470 --> 38:48.000 align:start
that they were being setup
potentially for violence.

38:48.000 --> 38:53.810 align:start
They wearily moved
forward, things seemed calm

38:53.810 --> 38:57.160 align:start
for the ensuing few minutes.

38:57.160 --> 38:58.660 align:start
It was a very, very hot day.

38:58.660 --> 39:00.570 align:start
They've been jailed
without many food

39:00.570 --> 39:02.770 align:start
and beverage resources obviously.

39:02.770 --> 39:07.210 align:start
And there was a small store across
the little town square so Ms. Sales

39:07.210 --> 39:10.460 align:start
and a young seminarian from
Boston who had also been jailed,

39:10.460 --> 39:15.390 align:start
they stopped across to buy some
drinks for themselves and the others

39:15.390 --> 39:20.330 align:start
and when they stepped back out
of the store, someone stepped

39:20.330 --> 39:26.530 align:start
on to the store's porch, leveled the
shotgun at Ms. Sales, and as he went

39:26.530 --> 39:29.060 align:start
to pull the trigger, it was only

39:29.060 --> 39:33.990 align:start
that young seminarian behind Ms.
Sales pushed her out of the way

39:33.990 --> 39:36.610 align:start
and died himself in that moment.

39:36.610 --> 39:42.340 align:start
So you can imagine the force
and the emotional impact

39:42.340 --> 39:44.550 align:start
of these kinds of stories.

39:44.550 --> 39:48.350 align:start
I'll say a little bit more
about that when I wrap up.

39:48.350 --> 39:52.740 align:start
The-- you saw Mrs. Hicks
there closed that sequence.

39:52.740 --> 39:54.660 align:start
There are so many things
to say about Bogalusa.

39:54.660 --> 39:57.430 align:start
You could talk for days about the
Civil Right story in Bogalusa.

39:57.430 --> 40:00.370 align:start
Let me just personalize
this as she did in--

40:00.370 --> 40:03.040 align:start
with one end or one
element of their experience.

40:03.040 --> 40:10.250 align:start
We did an interview there with
Mrs. Hicks and four or five

40:10.250 --> 40:12.190 align:start
of her children and
then one grandchild

40:12.190 --> 40:14.780 align:start
so there were seven people
there and they talked

40:14.780 --> 40:15.640 align:start
in this collective interview.

40:15.640 --> 40:20.200 align:start
One of the things that they
explained was Bogalusa was such,

40:20.200 --> 40:24.450 align:start
such a violent and difficult
and almost ungoverned place

40:24.450 --> 40:29.330 align:start
in that moment of history
that the Deacons Of Defense,

40:29.330 --> 40:33.320 align:start
local African-American man
who built in a quiet network

40:33.320 --> 40:36.650 align:start
to provide armed defense to people
like the Hicks' who were part

40:36.650 --> 40:38.750 align:start
of the leadership team in Bogalusa.

40:38.750 --> 40:40.870 align:start
So, that family lived-- the
Hicks family lived with,

40:40.870 --> 40:45.030 align:start
and you can imagine, with armed
men in their yard at night

40:45.030 --> 40:48.500 align:start
on their roof for three years.

40:48.500 --> 40:52.530 align:start
And the children, the Hicks
children tell the story of learning

40:52.530 --> 40:57.380 align:start
as small children, when they walked
across the front of their house

40:57.380 --> 41:00.770 align:start
and reached the front windows
of their house, to stop walking

41:00.770 --> 41:03.690 align:start
and to crawl and then
to stand up again,

41:03.690 --> 41:05.250 align:start
when they pass the windows by.

41:05.250 --> 41:11.130 align:start
So you can imagine one the things
that has very much impressed itself

41:11.130 --> 41:15.930 align:start
on me in this work is to think more
about the legacy of this violence

41:15.930 --> 41:19.970 align:start
and trauma, and I'll say a few
things about that as we move on.

41:19.970 --> 41:21.390 align:start
Let me just call up
one other, he was in--

41:21.390 --> 41:25.410 align:start
too many of these instances of
course because the movement was

41:25.410 --> 41:27.570 align:start
so difficult and so
violent so often.

41:27.570 --> 41:32.130 align:start
Charles McDew, Mr. Charles McDew
who was the first President

41:32.130 --> 41:35.070 align:start
of SNCC actually, remarkable man.

41:35.070 --> 41:40.430 align:start
He went early into Southwest Georgia
with Reverend Sherrod and others

41:40.430 --> 41:45.280 align:start
and he talks about, again, this
is a obviously in racial terms,

41:45.280 --> 41:48.490 align:start
almost ungoverned the white local
law enforcement where persons

41:48.490 --> 41:52.170 align:start
who could enforce authority
with even murderous violence

41:52.170 --> 41:53.920 align:start
with no consequence and
indeed that happened

41:53.920 --> 41:56.450 align:start
across Southwest Georgia
more than once.

41:56.450 --> 42:00.870 align:start
And I will never forget sitting in
interview with Mr. McDew and he said

42:00.870 --> 42:05.300 align:start
"Well, you know, we just-- there
it was, a blood price just had

42:05.300 --> 42:07.320 align:start
to be paid if we were
going to move forward.

42:07.320 --> 42:11.120 align:start
That is what it would take
to move the movement forward

42:11.120 --> 42:15.240 align:start
in Southwest Georgia and we
decided that we would go ahead."

42:15.240 --> 42:16.860 align:start
So, as you can imagine,

42:16.860 --> 42:22.140 align:start
these interviews are remarkable
instances again and again and again

42:22.140 --> 42:25.490 align:start
of this just courage, this
capacity, the faith to step

42:25.490 --> 42:27.240 align:start
in to that kind of context.

42:27.240 --> 42:32.040 align:start
Let me turn to a fourth
and final clip.

42:32.040 --> 42:38.310 align:start
This will suggest how so many people
in the movement had this yearning,

42:38.310 --> 42:41.110 align:start
this spirit, this vision for
something that, you know,

42:41.110 --> 42:44.700 align:start
some transcendent achievement
in re-crafting the social order.

42:44.700 --> 42:51.100 align:start
It wasn't-- it wasn't narrowly the
question of formal legal rights

42:51.100 --> 42:55.370 align:start
of formal Civil Rights but
an objective that range

42:55.370 --> 42:59.290 align:start
to transforming society, and I think
these are two beautiful short clips

42:59.290 --> 43:02.530 align:start
that suggest that.

43:02.530 --> 43:09.120 align:start
>> And so, we feel that night and
we're staying back that night.

43:09.120 --> 43:10.600 align:start
For one of the things that happened

43:10.600 --> 43:15.510 align:start
when we were there is the
policeman from the city came in.

43:15.510 --> 43:20.930 align:start
We were having a movie I
believe that night, Southeast.

43:20.930 --> 43:26.940 align:start
And, they came in, they turned out
all of the lights from the city,

43:26.940 --> 43:32.640 align:start
they turned them out so we were
in complete darkness that night

43:32.640 --> 43:36.450 align:start
and we could not see each
other, we didn't know where,

43:36.450 --> 43:40.820 align:start
I didn't know when I see the
walls, I didn't know where we were.

43:40.820 --> 43:45.200 align:start
We were just there wherever
we were at that time

43:45.200 --> 43:48.590 align:start
when the lights went
out, that's why we set.

43:48.590 --> 43:52.320 align:start
And so all of these
policemen came in

43:52.320 --> 43:55.820 align:start
and all we could see basically
is the [inaudible] and the butts

43:55.820 --> 43:58.500 align:start
of their gun, you could
see a charged.

43:58.500 --> 44:04.950 align:start
And they also-- and they told
us to see [inaudible] police,

44:04.950 --> 44:07.340 align:start
stay still, be quiet, [inaudible].

44:07.340 --> 44:13.060 align:start
And something sang
we are loved, are we,

44:13.060 --> 44:24.630 align:start
everybody start to
sing, we are loved.

44:24.630 --> 44:36.950 align:start
And we hear people come in,
my sister who is not a singer,

44:36.950 --> 44:42.020 align:start
I knew she was safe 'cause I heard
her out of tune voice [laughter]

44:42.020 --> 44:49.100 align:start
and I could hear men's
base coming about.

44:49.100 --> 44:56.670 align:start
We are not afraid and we
just got louder and louder,

44:56.670 --> 45:02.090 align:start
we're singing that verse until one
of the policemen came and he said

45:02.090 --> 45:08.400 align:start
to me, "If you have to sing,"
and he was actually shaking,

45:08.400 --> 45:13.650 align:start
"Do you have to sing so loud?"

45:13.650 --> 45:21.480 align:start
[Laughter] And I could not
believe, hear this people here all

45:21.480 --> 45:28.910 align:start
of the good, or bad
things, or power, we fought.

45:28.910 --> 45:40.880 align:start
And he was asking me with a shake
if I would not sing so loud.

45:40.880 --> 45:46.120 align:start
I knew at that time that I had
really understood the power

45:46.120 --> 45:48.000 align:start
of our move, of our music.

45:48.000 --> 45:53.200 align:start
>> When we look at worlds apart,
people, I think, think that she was,

45:53.200 --> 45:55.490 align:start
she did that because
her Civil Rights

45:55.490 --> 45:57.830 align:start
of wanting to sit down on the bus.

45:57.830 --> 46:01.200 align:start
What she also did was a
rebellion of me to rebellion

46:01.200 --> 46:05.830 align:start
of working class women who
were tired of boarding the bus

46:05.830 --> 46:10.780 align:start
in Montgomery, the public space
and being assaulted and called

46:10.780 --> 46:16.530 align:start
out of their names and
abused by white bus drivers.

46:16.530 --> 46:20.660 align:start
And that's why women-- that's why
that movement could hold so long.

46:20.660 --> 46:24.380 align:start
Even that that was merely
approached us about riding a bus,

46:24.380 --> 46:29.200 align:start
it might have shattered but it went
to the very heart of black womanhood

46:29.200 --> 46:33.480 align:start
and black women played a major
role as a state in that movement.

46:33.480 --> 46:35.820 align:start
And so that's why I think
it's really important

46:35.820 --> 46:37.650 align:start
to see the larger context.

46:37.650 --> 46:41.270 align:start
I don't think the Civil Rights
movement could have last but as long

46:41.270 --> 46:45.320 align:start
as this movement did without
the culture nuances of that,

46:45.320 --> 46:49.840 align:start
without the theology, without the
intimacy, without the connection,

46:49.840 --> 46:56.880 align:start
and without the strong desire
to be first class human beings.

46:56.880 --> 47:00.300 align:start
>> We moved pretty fast
but let me conclude here

47:00.300 --> 47:03.480 align:start
with just a few reflections.

47:03.480 --> 47:07.470 align:start
The persons in these
interviews certainly confirmed

47:07.470 --> 47:10.350 align:start
and extend the way we
think about the movement.

47:10.350 --> 47:13.590 align:start
Historians have done now, you know,
decades of work on the movement.

47:13.590 --> 47:17.000 align:start
There's a vast literature,
much of it is superb.

47:17.000 --> 47:21.660 align:start
But the popular understandings
that prevail in our culture

47:21.660 --> 47:24.590 align:start
of the movement, I think,
are often very tightly drawn,

47:24.590 --> 47:26.820 align:start
maybe don't point to-- maybe

47:26.820 --> 47:28.760 align:start
at times obscure more
than they illuminate.

47:28.760 --> 47:32.510 align:start
I think that these materials
will be extremely useful

47:32.510 --> 47:35.670 align:start
to the new National Museum of
African American History and Culture

47:35.670 --> 47:39.100 align:start
in disrupting and recasting
aspects of the popular narrative

47:39.100 --> 47:41.850 align:start
that will help us all
understand this history better

47:41.850 --> 47:45.040 align:start
so I'm really pleased
at that prospect.

47:45.040 --> 47:47.410 align:start
Let me reach back, I mentioned
that I would come to Greensboro,

47:47.410 --> 47:50.290 align:start
another little disruption.

47:50.290 --> 47:54.970 align:start
We interviewed a woman, Dr.
Esther Terry at Bennett College

47:54.970 --> 47:56.630 align:start
in Greensboro, North Carolina.

47:56.630 --> 47:59.540 align:start
She's now a senior
administrator in the university's--

47:59.540 --> 48:00.600 align:start
in the college's hierarchy.

48:00.600 --> 48:06.070 align:start
In 1959-1960, she was a
student at Bennett College,

48:06.070 --> 48:07.770 align:start
the women's college,
African-American women's college

48:07.770 --> 48:10.340 align:start
in Greensboro, North Carolina.

48:10.340 --> 48:13.010 align:start
You can pick up many history
of the movement and they talk

48:13.010 --> 48:16.340 align:start
about the four young men
from North Carolina A&T

48:16.340 --> 48:19.070 align:start
who very courageously sat down at
the Woolworth's Counter on the first

48:19.070 --> 48:21.010 align:start
of February 1960 and [inaudible]

48:21.010 --> 48:24.990 align:start
with kicking off the active
sit-in phase of the movement.

48:24.990 --> 48:32.930 align:start
As we talk with Dr. Terry, she
very quietly but firmly reminded us

48:32.930 --> 48:35.990 align:start
that we should rethink that
history and tells us the story

48:35.990 --> 48:39.560 align:start
about how there were young
women, students at Bennett

48:39.560 --> 48:43.100 align:start
who were meeting frequently to
talk about what they might do

48:43.100 --> 48:46.590 align:start
in the community to contest
the prevailing racial order.

48:46.590 --> 48:50.690 align:start
And they had extensive conversation
about launching a sit-in movement

48:50.690 --> 48:53.080 align:start
and of course there were young
men who like to come and visit

48:53.080 --> 48:56.670 align:start
around Bennett College and some
of these young men were kind

48:56.670 --> 48:59.000 align:start
of on the edges of those
discussions and they came back

48:59.000 --> 49:02.920 align:start
from the winter Christmas Holiday
and low and behold, there were four

49:02.920 --> 49:05.040 align:start
of them suddenly went in and
sat in at the counter but they

49:05.040 --> 49:08.050 align:start
like to assert and I don't
have any reason to doubt them

49:08.050 --> 49:12.030 align:start
that it was young women at Bennett
College who in fact were the ones

49:12.030 --> 49:19.120 align:start
who did much to craft that strategy
of confrontation in Greensboro.

49:19.120 --> 49:25.040 align:start
Another key reflection, I
was absolutely struck not

49:25.040 --> 49:27.970 align:start
that I necessarily expected anything
differently, but absolutely struck

49:27.970 --> 49:32.300 align:start
across 50 interview session with
the absence of any narrative

49:32.300 --> 49:37.510 align:start
of a realized transcendent
kind of accomplishment.

49:37.510 --> 49:41.200 align:start
As a group, these persons,

49:41.200 --> 49:44.220 align:start
so many of them have
remained actively engaged

49:44.220 --> 49:46.190 align:start
in progressive social
change movements

49:46.190 --> 49:49.900 align:start
and they are relatively discouraged
about the current state of racial

49:49.900 --> 49:53.000 align:start
and economic affairs
in this country.

49:53.000 --> 49:57.960 align:start
It was not the experience of
going out and ending the interview

49:57.960 --> 49:59.080 align:start
with this kind of an
emotional high point.

49:59.080 --> 50:04.340 align:start
These were all difficult stories
and people do not see a rising arch.

50:04.340 --> 50:07.430 align:start
No one says that the southeast
in the country is unchanged,

50:07.430 --> 50:10.560 align:start
everybody says that it's all changed
substantially, obviously it is.

50:10.560 --> 50:14.600 align:start
But, I don't think we had a
single interviewee who sees this

50:14.600 --> 50:17.650 align:start
as the work is now accomplished
and done and yet too often

50:17.650 --> 50:20.600 align:start
in the popular narrative, that's
how we understand or, you know,

50:20.600 --> 50:26.420 align:start
it suggested to us that that's how
we would understand this history.

50:26.420 --> 50:32.170 align:start
A third reflection, I am
absolutely struck by two things

50:32.170 --> 50:35.710 align:start
that we would do well I think
to give further attention to,

50:35.710 --> 50:38.560 align:start
both in our own work and
historians generally.

50:38.560 --> 50:47.680 align:start
One is the whole pattern, varied and
flexible and two successful pattern

50:47.680 --> 50:52.730 align:start
of white reaction which could-- it's
sort of exhibiting endless capacity

50:52.730 --> 50:57.360 align:start
to absorb, deflect, and destroy
threats to the prevailing order.

50:57.360 --> 51:03.540 align:start
A second thing is that I think
we need, us I mentioned, earlier,

51:03.540 --> 51:06.820 align:start
I think we need to get more
attention to the long legacy impacts

51:06.820 --> 51:09.070 align:start
of all this violence
and fear and trauma.

51:09.070 --> 51:12.460 align:start
If you read through say
Civil Rights, the literature

51:12.460 --> 51:15.280 align:start
of Civil Rights autobiography,
you'll find so many of these people

51:15.280 --> 51:18.000 align:start
at some point, it can be a
year later, it can be five,

51:18.000 --> 51:19.580 align:start
it can be 20 years later.

51:19.580 --> 51:22.690 align:start
People just, at some point, have to
step away and have kind of a moment

51:22.690 --> 51:26.050 align:start
of deep compression and removal
from all of what they have carried

51:26.050 --> 51:29.410 align:start
with them from encountering
violence so directly

51:29.410 --> 51:33.310 align:start
for so much time in these years.

51:33.310 --> 51:37.060 align:start
Lastly, let me just say we can
maybe get to the same questions

51:37.060 --> 51:39.630 align:start
and we're running up against
the clock so I need to stop.

51:39.630 --> 51:44.940 align:start
But I do really want to emphasize
my thanks to the library,

51:44.940 --> 51:48.260 align:start
my thanks to the museum, my
thanks to the oral history program

51:48.260 --> 51:51.350 align:start
and all my colleagues in this
project across those organizations.

51:51.350 --> 51:53.200 align:start
It's been, for me to do this work,

51:53.200 --> 51:55.500 align:start
it's just been a tremendous
privilege, this is the work I do.

51:55.500 --> 51:56.910 align:start
I have worked in oral
history for many years.

51:56.910 --> 51:59.700 align:start
I studied Civil Rights,
legal history.

51:59.700 --> 52:04.960 align:start
So, it was a great privilege and
my thanks especially in this work

52:04.960 --> 52:10.600 align:start
to the interviewees who I
think because they feel I'm--

52:10.600 --> 52:15.340 align:start
I'm inferring as I do, I will report
that, so proud of this prospect

52:15.340 --> 52:19.220 align:start
of this new museum, so happy
that this is coming into being,

52:19.220 --> 52:22.300 align:start
that they were especially
pleased to have the opportunity

52:22.300 --> 52:24.540 align:start
to preserve their thoughts,

52:24.540 --> 52:27.430 align:start
their personal narratives
for that archive.

52:27.430 --> 52:30.130 align:start
So, let me invite questions
and thoughts

52:30.130 --> 52:33.510 align:start
and I thank you all
for that in advance.

52:33.510 --> 52:40.150 align:start
[ Applause ]

52:40.150 --> 52:40.770 align:start
Yes?

52:40.770 --> 52:44.640 align:start
>> I was wondering how were these
people selected, were they--

52:44.640 --> 52:47.470 align:start
did they volunteer or
how did you all choose

52:47.470 --> 52:50.520 align:start
out of many that there are in this--

52:50.520 --> 52:53.890 align:start
>> Yup, Elaine can answer that with
a quick summary if that's okay.

52:53.890 --> 52:55.400 align:start
Ah, do you want to?

52:55.400 --> 52:55.810 align:start
>> No--

52:55.810 --> 53:00.620 align:start
>> Okay. The museum convened
a special advisory committee,

53:00.620 --> 53:05.790 align:start
activists, scholars, former
movement leaders, participants.

53:05.790 --> 53:08.720 align:start
And collectively, they worked
with Elaine and others at the--

53:08.720 --> 53:10.420 align:start
but especially with
Elaine and others

53:10.420 --> 53:12.430 align:start
at the museum to draft a list.

53:12.430 --> 53:14.550 align:start
So, it wasn't the Oral
History Program

53:14.550 --> 53:16.460 align:start
that put the 50 names together

53:16.460 --> 53:18.880 align:start
or the 50 sessions together
but rather the museum.

53:18.880 --> 53:21.950 align:start
>> Okay. And that was little bit
more complicated than that because--

53:21.950 --> 53:25.350 align:start
>> Why don't you get
on-- get on mic?

53:25.350 --> 53:28.870 align:start
>> Guha mentioned the survey
that the Library of Congress did.

53:28.870 --> 53:34.100 align:start
And so, many of the names that
we chose came from that survey

53:34.100 --> 53:38.010 align:start
but people also called us and gave
us names and so, there were lots

53:38.010 --> 53:40.250 align:start
of resources that helped
us build that name.

53:40.250 --> 53:44.890 align:start
I want to add something else to
your comment, Joe, for the records.

53:44.890 --> 53:48.090 align:start
Judge Matthew Perry whom I
knew quite well and was someone

53:48.090 --> 53:51.160 align:start
that I was really surprised
that he said yes to us,

53:51.160 --> 53:54.900 align:start
because he's a rather reserved
person and I actually expected

53:54.900 --> 53:56.430 align:start
that he was going to say no.

53:56.430 --> 53:58.470 align:start
But he was actually in his late 80s

53:58.470 --> 54:02.530 align:start
and he passed away four days
short of his 90th birthday.

54:02.530 --> 54:04.970 align:start
So I was really excited
when Joe came back and said

54:04.970 --> 54:10.180 align:start
to me he had actually had a case and
he did the filming on his lunch hour

54:10.180 --> 54:13.080 align:start
between the time he had
to go back to the bench.

54:13.080 --> 54:19.360 align:start
So, it's six volumes about the
intellectual ability of this man.

54:19.360 --> 54:24.050 align:start
And also, in the case with the
women in Greensboro, another aspect

54:24.050 --> 54:26.230 align:start
of that story was that
the man thought

54:26.230 --> 54:30.430 align:start
that it would be quite dangerous
for the women to go and protest.

54:30.430 --> 54:33.710 align:start
And so some of that was
near chivalry coming out

54:33.710 --> 54:37.270 align:start
and they didn't want to put
this bells on the front line.

54:37.270 --> 54:39.150 align:start
[Laughter]

54:39.150 --> 54:40.500 align:start
>> Thank you, Elaine.

54:40.500 --> 54:42.020 align:start
>> Yes sir?

54:42.020 --> 54:45.360 align:start
>> You have the, in fact,
the other four years

54:45.360 --> 54:48.370 align:start
of interviews already planned out?

54:48.370 --> 54:50.730 align:start
>> No, we are in front of
the [inaudible] towards that.

54:50.730 --> 54:51.430 align:start
>> Okay.

54:51.430 --> 54:58.940 align:start
>> If I could ask another question?

54:58.940 --> 55:00.330 align:start
>> Please.

55:00.330 --> 55:05.500 align:start
>> I often see American men and
women, Caucasian women and men

55:05.500 --> 55:08.550 align:start
but what about the rules that any
Asian American, Native American.

55:08.550 --> 55:11.720 align:start
I don't know how they-- those
population really work in the south

55:11.720 --> 55:14.850 align:start
and in the urban areas at the
time that when I do readings,

55:14.850 --> 55:17.000 align:start
I rarely see that highlighted.

55:17.000 --> 55:18.270 align:start
>> Wonderful question.

55:18.270 --> 55:20.970 align:start
The list in the first year
included probably four

55:20.970 --> 55:23.950 align:start
or five white persons
among the 50 sessions,

55:23.950 --> 55:29.560 align:start
at one Asian-American woman
who was in seminary in Chicago

55:29.560 --> 55:33.490 align:start
and went south to join
in the protest in Soma.

55:33.490 --> 55:37.270 align:start
So, you are-- and that's
great point and I'm sure

55:37.270 --> 55:42.410 align:start
as the series moves forward, we
will, we are always hoping to reach

55:42.410 --> 55:45.100 align:start
to provide the most complete
portrait of the wide range

55:45.100 --> 55:47.290 align:start
of persons who contributed
absolutely.

55:47.290 --> 55:49.430 align:start
>> Okay.

55:49.430 --> 55:55.620 align:start
>> So, for this-- the people
you have interviewed before,

55:55.620 --> 55:59.000 align:start
were there different kinds
of questions that you asked

55:59.000 --> 56:03.030 align:start
or different ways that they
told stories to you as opposed

56:03.030 --> 56:05.270 align:start
to earlier interviewers or instance

56:05.270 --> 56:07.770 align:start
of how their story
telling changes every time?

56:07.770 --> 56:08.890 align:start
>> Yeah, thank you.

56:08.890 --> 56:11.600 align:start
Let me just recap kind of how we
approached one of this interviewees

56:11.600 --> 56:13.330 align:start
and they answer to
[inaudible] question will emerge

56:13.330 --> 56:17.240 align:start
from that story, that description.

56:17.240 --> 56:20.920 align:start
In approaching any interview
or any session in this series

56:20.920 --> 56:23.790 align:start
as with any oral history work we
do, the best I think that we can do

56:23.790 --> 56:25.900 align:start
on the front side is
to be as comprehensive

56:25.900 --> 56:27.220 align:start
in our research preparation
as possible,

56:27.220 --> 56:30.250 align:start
so I want to know everything
contextually for the community,

56:30.250 --> 56:31.930 align:start
the state, regional
history, all those things.

56:31.930 --> 56:33.960 align:start
I want to know everything
specific to the person,

56:33.960 --> 56:35.780 align:start
but some of these individuals,
not many

56:35.780 --> 56:37.840 align:start
but some had given prior interviews.

56:37.840 --> 56:39.790 align:start
Some of those were available
to us that I would want

56:39.790 --> 56:42.580 align:start
to have indeed read all of
that material in advance

56:42.580 --> 56:44.150 align:start
of sitting down with someone.

56:44.150 --> 56:46.930 align:start
And my ambition just
gets to your question,

56:46.930 --> 56:50.390 align:start
my ambition in this series--

56:50.390 --> 56:54.430 align:start
well, in oral history work
generally is not to replow a ground

56:54.430 --> 56:57.120 align:start
that has been well-examined
but to work

56:57.120 --> 57:01.500 align:start
from that well-understood foundation
and try to reach and push the edges

57:01.500 --> 57:05.230 align:start
and open new questions
and introduce new themes.

57:05.230 --> 57:08.720 align:start
In this series, given that these
interviews collectively will

57:08.720 --> 57:12.360 align:start
represent, do represent
a foundational collection

57:12.360 --> 57:15.340 align:start
that the museum's curators
will use to tell this history,

57:15.340 --> 57:16.090 align:start
the story of this history.

57:16.090 --> 57:19.810 align:start
In some instances, I actually
did want them to repeat things.

57:19.810 --> 57:23.330 align:start
I wanted that on film for the
museum, but as a general rule,

57:23.330 --> 57:25.980 align:start
I would try to reach
pass narratives.

57:25.980 --> 57:28.610 align:start
And then so I would
always within extensive--

57:28.610 --> 57:30.630 align:start
I'd arrive with an extensive
series of questions built

57:30.630 --> 57:33.480 align:start
of what was known,
what they had said.

57:33.480 --> 57:36.560 align:start
And, I could say lots
more but I don't have time

57:36.560 --> 57:41.980 align:start
about the way you try to structure
the atmosphere of an interview

57:41.980 --> 57:45.830 align:start
to build beyond what is known.

57:45.830 --> 57:46.230 align:start
>> Yeah.

57:46.230 --> 57:47.460 align:start
>> Sir?

57:47.460 --> 57:52.280 align:start
>> Talk a little bit about the
use of the uniform backdrop

57:52.280 --> 57:56.210 align:start
and the medium-- the medium
close up shot as a visual device.

57:56.210 --> 57:57.550 align:start
>> Yeah, I will do my best on that.

57:57.550 --> 57:59.440 align:start
That's really wasn't my part of--

57:59.440 --> 58:04.300 align:start
the press is John Bishop
who was just an exceptional,

58:04.300 --> 58:08.270 align:start
ethno videographer film
maker did all of that work.

58:08.270 --> 58:13.030 align:start
The backdrop decision I think
was taken by the museum.

58:13.030 --> 58:16.680 align:start
Just for the sake of uniformity, we
went out to meet these people in all

58:16.680 --> 58:18.080 align:start
of these locations
around the country,

58:18.080 --> 58:20.300 align:start
30 cities as Elaine
mentioned, and so we were

58:20.300 --> 58:23.710 align:start
in probably 45 different
filming locations.

58:23.710 --> 58:25.510 align:start
We doubled up in a few cases.

58:25.510 --> 58:27.270 align:start
And we weren't sure
how that would work

58:27.270 --> 58:29.840 align:start
and they wanted some consistencies
so the decision was just make

58:29.840 --> 58:33.160 align:start
and let's-- you know, we could go
either way, there's a little bit

58:33.160 --> 58:36.470 align:start
of additional information that's
gained from seeing maybe the home

58:36.470 --> 58:38.310 align:start
or the office context in
which you meet someone

58:38.310 --> 58:40.820 align:start
but on the other hand we weren't
sure how that would work on film.

58:40.820 --> 58:42.650 align:start
So that was the decision
for the backdrop.

58:42.650 --> 58:45.010 align:start
In terms of the framing,
my understanding

58:45.010 --> 58:47.000 align:start
and really this is the
question for John Bishop

58:47.000 --> 58:49.280 align:start
who isn't with us here today.

58:49.280 --> 58:55.760 align:start
I think he wanted that deep kind
of immediate sense of the person

58:55.760 --> 58:57.700 align:start
and that was his ambition.

58:57.700 --> 59:02.150 align:start
I don't know about that,
yeah, I wish John could--

59:02.150 --> 59:03.890 align:start
>> I thought we are rethinking.

59:03.890 --> 59:07.470 align:start
Seriously, we are thinking the--

59:07.470 --> 59:11.250 align:start
using the backdrop and we
sort of just [inaudible].

59:11.250 --> 59:11.650 align:start
>> Elaine is--

59:11.650 --> 59:14.920 align:start
>> I think we're feeling like we
would like to see the setting.

59:14.920 --> 59:18.540 align:start
>> Yeah, it seems to me,
everything is a trade off.

59:18.540 --> 59:25.220 align:start
You gain the focused impact by in
a sense having the person's bust

59:25.220 --> 59:27.570 align:start
as if it were in a plain background

59:27.570 --> 59:31.240 align:start
so you focused attention
on the person.

59:31.240 --> 59:35.100 align:start
On the other hand, the trade off is
you lose the setting or the context

59:35.100 --> 59:38.870 align:start
which provides-- enriches our
sense of who the person is

59:38.870 --> 59:40.910 align:start
or what their role is,
you know, it's acclaimed--

59:40.910 --> 59:48.660 align:start
>> It is, it is, and I can
imagine-- I understand all of that.

59:48.660 --> 59:51.120 align:start
I think-- excuse me, I think you're
exactly right in saying that.

59:51.120 --> 59:53.060 align:start
I can imagine some of
these persons are people

59:53.060 --> 59:55.860 align:start
of extremely ten US
economic circumstances.

59:55.860 --> 59:58.630 align:start
Their lives have not
rewarded them in those ways

59:58.630 --> 01:00:00.140 align:start
and I can imagine people
being self-conscious.

01:00:00.140 --> 01:00:03.040 align:start
The backdrop helped in a few cases

01:00:03.040 --> 01:00:04.880 align:start
where I think people might
have been self-conscious

01:00:04.880 --> 01:00:07.280 align:start
about their presentation
because their homes

01:00:07.280 --> 01:00:08.990 align:start
or the places were not
that extremely modest.

01:00:08.990 --> 01:00:10.630 align:start
So that would be a concern as well.

01:00:10.630 --> 01:00:15.620 align:start
Yeah, it is a balancing, and
it is a-- it's a trade off.

01:00:15.620 --> 01:00:16.520 align:start
Sir?

01:00:16.520 --> 01:00:24.780 align:start
[ Inaudible Remark ]

01:00:24.780 --> 01:00:26.690 align:start
>> They will.

01:00:26.690 --> 01:00:27.800 align:start
[Inaudible Remark] They all-- yeah.

01:00:27.800 --> 01:00:30.980 align:start
I'll let you have it.

01:00:30.980 --> 01:00:36.210 align:start
So these collections which are
principally the interviews are

01:00:36.210 --> 01:00:38.640 align:start
to be held jointly between
the Library of Congress

01:00:38.640 --> 01:00:40.910 align:start
and the Smithsonian Institution.

01:00:40.910 --> 01:00:43.260 align:start
It's an interesting prospect for us.

01:00:43.260 --> 01:00:47.210 align:start
We've done duplication projects of
collections before which always get

01:00:47.210 --> 01:00:49.580 align:start
into certain technical difficulties

01:00:49.580 --> 01:00:52.600 align:start
because you're taking analog
materials, the old-fashioned reels,

01:00:52.600 --> 01:00:54.960 align:start
and trying to do something with
them in order to transform them,

01:00:54.960 --> 01:00:57.760 align:start
in order to make them available
to with the other party.

01:00:57.760 --> 01:00:59.490 align:start
In this case, by virtue of the fact,

01:00:59.490 --> 01:01:02.330 align:start
this is a totally born-digital
collection, you know, from beginning

01:01:02.330 --> 01:01:05.920 align:start
to end, maybe the first that
the center has taken on board.

01:01:05.920 --> 01:01:09.010 align:start
I think I'm, correct me in saying
this Maggie if I'm not right.

01:01:09.010 --> 01:01:11.760 align:start
And, what that means is
that the distribution

01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:16.410 align:start
of those materials becomes
markedly easier to negotiate

01:01:16.410 --> 01:01:18.690 align:start
with our partners, the Smithsonian.

01:01:18.690 --> 01:01:21.780 align:start
That, however, doesn't preclude us
from doing a lot of not do diligence

01:01:21.780 --> 01:01:25.120 align:start
in terms of cataloging, in terms
of applying metadata and so on

01:01:25.120 --> 01:01:28.300 align:start
and then providing that
to the Smithsonian.

01:01:28.300 --> 01:01:32.010 align:start
The access to those materials
are governed by memorandum

01:01:32.010 --> 01:01:34.470 align:start
of understanding between
us and our colleagues

01:01:34.470 --> 01:01:35.520 align:start
at the Smithsonian Institution.

01:01:35.520 --> 01:01:38.200 align:start
We are on the process of
negotiating several things.

01:01:38.200 --> 01:01:40.360 align:start
One of which is a public
facing portal

01:01:40.360 --> 01:01:42.610 align:start
from which we will
stream these videos

01:01:42.610 --> 01:01:45.700 align:start
in various some of
sort of formulations.

01:01:45.700 --> 01:01:49.840 align:start
The Smithsonian as my
colleague who is a curator

01:01:49.840 --> 01:01:53.470 align:start
and excellent designer will tell
you has much different options

01:01:53.470 --> 01:01:55.270 align:start
and much different
alternatives and ways

01:01:55.270 --> 01:01:58.900 align:start
of making those materials available
in a gallery setting for instance

01:01:58.900 --> 01:02:02.180 align:start
that we may not be able
to do here at the library.

01:02:02.180 --> 01:02:05.990 align:start
They will be available onsite
in their entirety as out--

01:02:05.990 --> 01:02:08.390 align:start
as much of our research
materials as we can make available

01:02:08.390 --> 01:02:12.240 align:start
across the various reading rooms
at the library so that you can

01:02:12.240 --> 01:02:14.410 align:start
and if you do course of
time, make an appointment

01:02:14.410 --> 01:02:19.530 align:start
with our reference room open from
nine to five, Monday through Friday.

01:02:19.530 --> 01:02:24.250 align:start
[Laughter] And you may come and
watch and view those materials.

01:02:24.250 --> 01:02:26.840 align:start
And everything else that just
falls under the preview here,

01:02:26.840 --> 01:02:29.930 align:start
the regular way in which we
take care of and maintain

01:02:29.930 --> 01:02:31.760 align:start
and provide access
to our collections.

01:02:31.760 --> 01:02:34.510 align:start
Did that answer the question?

01:02:34.510 --> 01:02:43.450 align:start
[ Inaudible Remark ]

01:02:43.450 --> 01:02:45.080 align:start
Sure, the library was
not involved in that.

01:02:45.080 --> 01:02:51.210 align:start
The museum made initial contact
with folks and advanced those names

01:02:51.210 --> 01:02:53.550 align:start
to us only after the
persons had said, "Yeah,

01:02:53.550 --> 01:02:54.700 align:start
we'd be willing to do this."

01:02:54.700 --> 01:02:58.200 align:start
And then Elaine would say, "Okay,
Joe Mosnier will be getting in touch

01:02:58.200 --> 01:02:59.440 align:start
and he'll have more information."

01:02:59.440 --> 01:03:01.630 align:start
There was an initial letter that
went out that had a good kind

01:03:01.630 --> 01:03:04.710 align:start
of the summary of the project, and
indicated that I'd be following

01:03:04.710 --> 01:03:08.530 align:start
up with them, and then I would open
a conversation with them and handle

01:03:08.530 --> 01:03:09.800 align:start
that contact going forward.

01:03:09.800 --> 01:03:13.160 align:start
That's a whole process with
different elements and exchange

01:03:13.160 --> 01:03:17.580 align:start
of information, and documents,
and all kind of all designed

01:03:17.580 --> 01:03:20.910 align:start
to make the person maximally
comfortable and generate trust

01:03:20.910 --> 01:03:21.890 align:start
and security for the person.

01:03:21.890 --> 01:03:23.930 align:start
There are very careful
ways that you can do that.

01:03:23.930 --> 01:03:27.590 align:start
In oral history, we try to
be really careful about that.

01:03:27.590 --> 01:03:30.990 align:start
And so then we would-- I'd
needed to gather, you know,

01:03:30.990 --> 01:03:33.800 align:start
itineraries where we would go
out, and John Bishop and I,

01:03:33.800 --> 01:03:36.660 align:start
the videographer, we'd go
out and travel, you know,

01:03:36.660 --> 01:03:39.520 align:start
kind of point to point
for a week or two

01:03:39.520 --> 01:03:42.400 align:start
to actually sit down with people.

01:03:42.400 --> 01:03:43.970 align:start
>> Let me just add to that.

01:03:43.970 --> 01:03:48.030 align:start
Elaine mentioned a survey but I will
say that the survey portion of our--

01:03:48.030 --> 01:03:52.010 align:start
of the project which begun almost
immediately after the memorandum

01:03:52.010 --> 01:03:56.160 align:start
of understanding was signed
in a-- about three years ago.

01:03:56.160 --> 01:03:59.350 align:start
Through the mechanism of that
survey, we had researchers

01:03:59.350 --> 01:04:00.520 align:start
who were scholars, some of--

01:04:00.520 --> 01:04:03.530 align:start
two of them were scholars of this
four-person team who were scholars

01:04:03.530 --> 01:04:06.880 align:start
of the Civil Rights movement both
at the University of North Carolina.

01:04:06.880 --> 01:04:09.020 align:start
And they actually sowed
the seeds or paved the way

01:04:09.020 --> 01:04:11.840 align:start
for subsequent interviews
by providing for us

01:04:11.840 --> 01:04:14.440 align:start
and to the Smithsonian the
names of people whom they,

01:04:14.440 --> 01:04:17.170 align:start
and are new from their own
field work, and from talking

01:04:17.170 --> 01:04:22.120 align:start
to say repositories across the
length and breadth of the country.

01:04:22.120 --> 01:04:24.390 align:start
That would be available
for, you know, talking to

01:04:24.390 --> 01:04:25.700 align:start
and it would be crucial for--

01:04:25.700 --> 01:04:29.330 align:start
in a recording precisely I
think as Joe has pointed out.

01:04:29.330 --> 01:04:32.560 align:start
Those myriad hundred and
thousands of people who have never,

01:04:32.560 --> 01:04:35.410 align:start
who'd never ever make the light of
day, you know, in the normal sort

01:04:35.410 --> 01:04:39.350 align:start
of course of events, and I think
so, in that sense, the library did,

01:04:39.350 --> 01:04:41.130 align:start
you know, make the
first sort of, you know,

01:04:41.130 --> 01:04:43.430 align:start
approach out there into the field.

01:04:43.430 --> 01:04:46.190 align:start
So we were there in
spirit virtually,

01:04:46.190 --> 01:04:48.940 align:start
if not actually physically.

01:04:48.940 --> 01:04:49.590 align:start
Yes sir?

01:04:49.590 --> 01:04:55.650 align:start
>> You know, was there ever any
kind of acknowledgment by anybody

01:04:55.650 --> 01:05:00.040 align:start
for that former clansmen or
with those local policemen.

01:05:00.040 --> 01:05:05.250 align:start
Butt, they had perpetrated a crime.

01:05:05.250 --> 01:05:07.410 align:start
>> Yeah, I really appreciate
that question.

01:05:07.410 --> 01:05:11.130 align:start
In the first phase, we did
not interview any persons

01:05:11.130 --> 01:05:13.470 align:start
who are on that side.

01:05:13.470 --> 01:05:19.490 align:start
I think it would be a very
valuable thing to interview some

01:05:19.490 --> 01:05:24.300 align:start
of those persons and I'm advocating
for that practice down the road.

01:05:24.300 --> 01:05:27.190 align:start
And you can imagine that you
would get a fascinating array

01:05:27.190 --> 01:05:31.650 align:start
of responses, and I think there's
probably much meaning and much value

01:05:31.650 --> 01:05:35.790 align:start
in securing and preserving
those types of perspectives also

01:05:35.790 --> 01:05:38.760 align:start
for this museum, absolutely.

01:05:38.760 --> 01:05:39.720 align:start
Yes?

01:05:39.720 --> 01:05:46.190 align:start
>> I'm wondering, I think it's
obvious that it's not ourselves.

01:05:46.190 --> 01:05:48.720 align:start
We know people who are
probably descending,

01:05:48.720 --> 01:05:52.720 align:start
so things go as we go [inaudible].

01:05:52.720 --> 01:05:57.340 align:start
And due to various
issues of protection,

01:05:57.340 --> 01:06:00.340 align:start
we may not hear that by the way.

01:06:00.340 --> 01:06:02.980 align:start
So I'm hoping, are you
also collecting some kind

01:06:02.980 --> 01:06:04.900 align:start
of database of names?

01:06:04.900 --> 01:06:07.270 align:start
You may not ever get
interviews from them.

01:06:07.270 --> 01:06:10.500 align:start
But it was some kind of
name just to underline that,

01:06:10.500 --> 01:06:16.830 align:start
yes this really happened, yes and
we are descending from these people.

01:06:16.830 --> 01:06:24.430 align:start
>> No, no, we're not trying to
develop that sort of list of persons

01:06:24.430 --> 01:06:29.650 align:start
who played all of these
different roles, we're not.

01:06:29.650 --> 01:06:33.360 align:start
>> Although it might be instructed
to look at those repository,

01:06:33.360 --> 01:06:37.230 align:start
that repository there, if you have
available the library web site

01:06:37.230 --> 01:06:44.160 align:start
and while we can get
that level of granularity

01:06:44.160 --> 01:06:52.350 align:start
down to the individual
level, I have that, I think,

01:06:52.350 --> 01:06:57.070 align:start
come across several instances.

01:06:57.070 --> 01:07:02.270 align:start
We can sort of conducting
it upon like[inaudible]

01:07:02.270 --> 01:07:13.210 align:start
where you do have specific projects
at individual repository level

01:07:13.210 --> 01:07:19.570 align:start
who have actually gone out and try
to interview former clansmen and

01:07:19.570 --> 01:07:25.000 align:start
or former people on the what we
call other side of that divide.

01:07:25.000 --> 01:07:28.140 align:start
But that's, you know, that's be--

01:07:28.140 --> 01:07:32.680 align:start
you're going to get in to the
[inaudible] kind of project,

01:07:32.680 --> 01:07:33.970 align:start
which you are welcome [inaudible].

01:07:33.970 --> 01:07:34.370 align:start
>> Yes.

01:07:34.370 --> 01:07:37.940 align:start
>> And so [inaudible], how do
you handle when in the course

01:07:37.940 --> 01:07:39.800 align:start
of an interview, someone
names a name of someone

01:07:39.800 --> 01:07:41.370 align:start
who has been involved in a crime

01:07:41.370 --> 01:07:43.520 align:start
and might not have been
prosecuted especially

01:07:43.520 --> 01:07:46.390 align:start
since these will be public records.

01:07:46.390 --> 01:07:48.740 align:start
>> Yeah, in-- that's a great
question, great question.

01:07:48.740 --> 01:07:52.750 align:start
And at lunch, 'cause we're going
to go to lunch later, I'll tell you

01:07:52.750 --> 01:07:54.270 align:start
yet another story, that--
[Inaudible Remark] Yeah.

01:07:54.270 --> 01:07:58.400 align:start
In the law that prevails
in the United States,

01:07:58.400 --> 01:08:02.370 align:start
if I sit down to interview
someone and they say to me,

01:08:02.370 --> 01:08:05.050 align:start
I know that I did this or I
know that Jim Smith did this,

01:08:05.050 --> 01:08:10.230 align:start
I have no obligation as a person
hearing that report from them

01:08:10.230 --> 01:08:14.340 align:start
to carry that information
to law enforcement.

01:08:14.340 --> 01:08:20.300 align:start
I'm not obliged by the law to make
a judgment about its veracity.

01:08:20.300 --> 01:08:22.610 align:start
Sorry, so you wanted--

01:08:22.610 --> 01:08:26.120 align:start
>> But, if you're going
to make this a public--

01:08:26.120 --> 01:08:26.790 align:start
>> Oh yes, okay.

01:08:26.790 --> 01:08:29.080 align:start
So right. So there are
consider-- yeah, exactly.

01:08:29.080 --> 01:08:31.580 align:start
So there are considerations
about what the repositories,

01:08:31.580 --> 01:08:36.040 align:start
how the repositories sort
of think about these issues.

01:08:36.040 --> 01:08:40.980 align:start
I could talk about the way we
thought about them over the years

01:08:40.980 --> 01:08:46.820 align:start
at the Oral History
Program at Chapel Hill.

01:08:46.820 --> 01:08:49.680 align:start
Guha could talk about and
his colleagues could talk

01:08:49.680 --> 01:08:51.570 align:start
about how the library
thinks about that.

01:08:51.570 --> 01:08:54.190 align:start
Without getting into details,

01:08:54.190 --> 01:08:57.760 align:start
you may know of the case that's
unfolding right now in the courts

01:08:57.760 --> 01:09:01.670 align:start
up in Boston, the BUKs with
the interviews with some IRA,

01:09:01.670 --> 01:09:06.070 align:start
Irish Republican Army
folks from the '70s.

01:09:06.070 --> 01:09:06.950 align:start
Fascinating question.

01:09:06.950 --> 01:09:10.100 align:start
I have never-- well, I will say
in North Carolina, relatively,

01:09:10.100 --> 01:09:14.450 align:start
we are state and that they
no statute of limitations

01:09:14.450 --> 01:09:17.920 align:start
on a wider range of felonies
than which typically the case,

01:09:17.920 --> 01:09:20.960 align:start
and say for example
in North Carolina,

01:09:20.960 --> 01:09:23.970 align:start
as I understand there's
no statute of limitation

01:09:23.970 --> 01:09:25.730 align:start
as regards to arson, felony arson.

01:09:25.730 --> 01:09:28.520 align:start
And there is one instance
in particular

01:09:28.520 --> 01:09:33.410 align:start
where white-owned tobacco
warehouses in a particular place

01:09:33.410 --> 01:09:38.030 align:start
in North Carolina were
burned down as a response

01:09:38.030 --> 01:09:41.220 align:start
to ongoing white violence
perpetrated

01:09:41.220 --> 01:09:42.790 align:start
against Civil Rights protesters.

01:09:42.790 --> 01:09:46.310 align:start
And you, I know, everybody
knows, who knows the stories,

01:09:46.310 --> 01:09:48.640 align:start
and they just can't say
it because if they did,

01:09:48.640 --> 01:09:51.010 align:start
some local prosecutor could
cite their own testimony

01:09:51.010 --> 01:09:55.900 align:start
as condemning them out of the
commission of this particular felony

01:09:55.900 --> 01:09:59.400 align:start
which is still actively
prosecutable in North Carolina.

01:09:59.400 --> 01:10:06.720 align:start
In other places, they could tell
you because the statute is gone.

01:10:06.720 --> 01:10:07.590 align:start
>> Why don't just say
a coincidence--

01:10:07.590 --> 01:10:07.990 align:start
>> Yes sir?

01:10:07.990 --> 01:10:09.360 align:start
>> Are you planning to do interviews
with people who were involved

01:10:09.360 --> 01:10:10.170 align:start
in the movement outside the south?

01:10:10.170 --> 01:10:11.670 align:start
>>Oh, absolutely, and some of
these people were involved outside

01:10:11.670 --> 01:10:12.070 align:start
the south.

01:10:12.070 --> 01:10:12.540 align:start
Yeah, this first phase, I have

01:10:12.540 --> 01:10:14.010 align:start
to say was heavily weighted
towards the regional southeast.

01:10:14.010 --> 01:10:14.550 align:start
No question, the south.

01:10:14.550 --> 01:10:15.780 align:start
But no, we are-- have done
and will do interviews

01:10:15.780 --> 01:10:17.400 align:start
with people whose activism was
principally accomplished outside

01:10:17.400 --> 01:10:17.800 align:start
the south.

01:10:17.800 --> 01:10:18.200 align:start
Yeah, good question, yeah.

01:10:18.200 --> 01:10:19.740 align:start
Well, I thank you all, it's been
a delight and I'm very grateful.

01:10:19.740 --> 01:10:20.140 align:start
Thank you.

01:10:20.140 --> 01:10:20.540 align:start
[Applause]

01:10:20.540 --> 01:10:21.510 align:start
>> This has been a presentation
of the Library of Congress.

01:10:21.510 --> 01:10:22.200 align:start
Visit us at loc.gov.