>> From the Library of Congress in Washington DC.
[ Silence ]
>> Mark Horowitz: We're in the Library of Congress.
It's May 9th, 2012.
I'm with the honorary for the Gershwin Prize for American song.
My name is a Mark Horowitz.   Burt Bacharach is here.
And our focus today is going to be on you as a composer,
the process of composing.
And my first question -- given the Gershwin Prize we know
that some song writers like Gershwin, and Harold Arlen sort
of kept little notebooks with them to jot
down tunes as they came to them.   Is that part of your process at all?
Do you get ideas like that and?
>> Burt Bacharach: It's definitely my process.
And it's -- if not on an airplane, if it's not like music paper,
and it rarely is, and it's on a cocktail napkin.
Half of a page of a legal pad, you know?
You know? Borrow from somebody.   And I'll just draw a staff.
And put four lines.
[inaudible comment] see that's a very important thing for me
to impart to aspiring musicians, song writers, composers,
that the ability to learn how
to notate music very important, very key.
>> Mark Horowitz: Are the ideas always melodic ideas?
Do you sometimes write harmonic?   [inaudible comment]
>> Burt Bacharach: I only hear the harmonic.
>> Mark Horowitz: But are they always for the melody
or do you sometimes get an idea for an accompaniment or a band?
>> Burt Bacharach: Many of the songs that I've written,
many of the things that I've written,
you could say like a song like "Walk on By."
So what happened with "Walk on By" is that became formed.
It's almost like the orchestration came with it
where the flute or horns would come in.
Where the strings would come in.   What the drum pattern might be.
That keyboard figure in "Walk on By" that was --
as I heard that, played it.
Said, well, I'm going to write the orchestration now.
And I'm going to write it for two pianos.
And we'll get two grand pianos in the studio with the orchestra.
And we'll have the two keyboard players.
[inaudible] I don't think I played on that date.
Just conducted or was in the booth.
And I had them both play the identical part.
>> Mark Horowitz: Just for the thickness of the texture or --
>> Burt Bacharach: Just for, yeah.   >> Mark Horowitz: -- volume.
>> Burt Bacharach: Just for --
because it will not be an exact like overdub.
It'll be like -- they'll be two different textures.
The keyboard texture, well,
different from the other keyboard texture.
And I think that.   It's a good idea, you know.
>> Mark Horowitz: So many of your cords are so rich
and thick and surprising.
And there's two kinds of harmony the vertical harmony
and the horizontal harmony.
In terms of how much of it is you think this is
where I am in the song.   This is the melody note.
This is how I want to harmonize it
versus do you have a harmonic outline for a whole song?
Is that part of --
>> Burt Bacharach: Well, I have to try not
to look at the vertical outlook.
It's why it's important to me to get away from the keyboard both
in orchestrating and both in composing.
Because I have to try to hear the whole thing as an entity rather
than the kind of like enchanted by a bar that sounds really good.
[inaudible] the overall three four bars.
Where does it lead to?   Where's the relief?
Where is where you can stand back?
And that's why a normal process will be for me to be able
to get away from the keyboard.
And then come back and check it out at the keyboard.
And go from the couch to the keyboard.
And sometimes on recording dates what I would do
with musicians sitting in the studio.
And if I was stuck, something wasn't working,
I'd give a ten minute break to the orchestra.
And I'd go into the men's room.
And go into the one of the stalls and close the door.
I mean I'd just sit on the, you know, sit down there.
I wouldn't need to have to go to the bathroom [inaudible comment].
I would have a place to sit and nobody would talk to me.
Nobody [inaudible].
And I'd just run through and try to isolate in my head what was wrong.
What was stopping me at a certain time.
Nine out of ten times I would have the answer when I'd come out.
Yes there was a [inaudible].   It was a ten minute break.
I mean one could have nightmares
about not getting the orchestration done in time.
I think there was a famous story about Quincy Jones,
like up in his hotel room years ago with the arrangements not done
with Paul Simon in the studio.
With a lot of musicians, the whole string section.
And I've had many correlated dreams like this.
Not being finished in time.   Not having it done.
>> Mark Horowitz: When you come up with the solutions,
do you just play it on the piano for the musicians?
Do you dictate it?   Do you --
>> Burt Bacharach: That's a good question, Mark.
An average session for me would be getting our rhythm players,
whoever's on the date.
Bring their -- and I don't write out like a bass bar.
Like, or say I do write certain lines where I want the bass
to maybe hold a note or play off of the fourth beat into the down.
And I'll signify things like that.
But I'll give a certain kind of liberty.
I wouldn't write a drum part on.
I might say, yes, play across [inaudible].
Snare drum here.
But what I would do is gather them around the keyboard
and play the song for them and sing it.
And whether I was the singer on it.
I wasn't the singer on the date but just let them know the song.
>> Mark Horowitz: If there was another singer would you have them
listen to you singing it as well.   >> Burt Bacharach: Not necessarily.
Because that singer would know the song before we're in the studio.
>> Mark Horowitz: How many takes typically does it take to get
through a number before you're comfortable with it?
Is there any average on that?
>> Burt Bacharach: I've overdone it, you know.
I mean, Dionne's first record that Dionne Warwick
"Don't Make Me Over" it was probably 28 or 29 takes, you know.
But we had a four.   I keep going four.
Let's get it.   Can we top what we got?
And the challenge always is,
and it's a great kind of -- it's not game.
The challenge is to have everybody meet at the 100 percent mark.
In other words, the singer will give that performance,
that magical performance.
The drummer will play better than he's played on any other.
Everybody will have connected.
And I love the recording process where everybody's
in the studio at the same time.
Because rather than making a track, I'm never comfortable
with that, making a track.
Having the singer come in because I like having just say the drummer
or the keyboard player react to what the singer has just been singing.
>> Mark Horowitz: If when you do all these takes, is it ever true
that when you go back and listen that the first take actually turns
out to be even if there are flaws the most exciting or the most --
>> Burt Bacharach: Of course, of course.
And there are some days I've done that were just, of course,
[inaudible] magic in two takes three takes.
[inaudible] the Ron Isley album that I did with him where I tried
to reinvent a lot of these songs
that had been done in a different way.
And we took two rooms at Capitol Records, studio A and B
and joined them together.   And put strings in one.
Hey, we did "Alfie" on the first take and that was it, you know.
>> Mark Horowitz: Really.   >> Burt Bacharach: Yeah.
And because there was -- they put him in a room [inaudible] Put him
where he's almost part of the orchestra.
But that's --   >> Mark Horowitz: Him who?
>> Burt Bacharach: Ron Isley.   >> Mark Horowitz: Okay.
Okay.
>> Burt Bacharach: Put ron Isley out in the room.
And that's an exceptional studio because he can do that.
The studio somehow [inaudible] record.
>> Mark Horowitz: Did you have a mentor for the studio work for how
to work with musicians and produce and all that.
Or is it something you just learned [inaudible].
>> Burt Bacharach: I think you learn that.
I think you learn that.   Do you learn orchestration from --
I mean, I remember Henry Mancini had a book on orchestration
that had referenced this.
So you want to see how we scored six bars of "Pink Panther."
You could see his actual score.
And you could then see, you know all written in concert key.
And here [inaudible] but that's beyond that.
Because I used to look at some arrangements.
And it's also seeing what you can -- you know when I started, Mark,
I didn't have a clue really.
I said, well, we got nine violins on the date that's great
so each violin must be playing its own part.
See that's just real dense on my part.
No, you have nine violins, and you don't want
to have nine different parts.
You want to have them hopefully more than nine.
Because nine is a little light for a -- with a great engineer.
And I did a lot with Phil Ramone.   And Phil Ramone was a violinist.
[inaudible]
>> Mark Horowitz: Oh, I didn't know that.
>> Burt Bacharach: Protg.   And so he could get a string sound
that was unbelievable when he was recording.
When he was an engineer.
>> Mark Horowitz: I wanted to go back a little bit more
about the composition process.
On the one hand you talk about how it sort
of comes greatly fully formed in your mind.
But you've also talked about I think
"Alfie" you said it took you three weeks to write.
Is each -- is it a new version each time?
Or do you -- how do you refine and change until you --
is it note by note saying this one is too obvious?
>> Burt Bacharach: You don't want to go an open note.
You want to go the whole vertical picture and see where it's going.
And, you know, that was an important very important lyric.
And that was basically setting Hal's lyric because it had to conform
to what this movie was about.
So if the assignment come in the movie's coming out.
When you guys write a song for "Alfie," the title song.
And if I had gone to the piano and just kind of fooled around and came
up with a melody, that wouldn't work.
I mean, you know, I'm a big believer
in many situations the words have to come first.
And they have to be set.
I just did a show with Steven Sater that opened at the old Globe
in San Diego at the end of last year.
And he's a wonderful lyricist, and he writes very musically.
He writes, I mean where things fall.   It's never like the second verse.
You have to ask for it.
Well, you see you got too many syllables.
I'm, like, no, he was right on verse after verse
without knowing any melody.   He just knew.
But there again, it's a different way to write.
It would take me to a different place setting.
With "Alfie" I knew how important that song could be.
I knew how powerful that movie was.
I was not thrilled with the choice of artists.
Didn't have control of that.
And they chose Cher to sing it with Sonny producing it,
Sonny Bono, at Gostar Records and --
>> Mark Horowitz: Were you at the recording session at all or --
>> Burt Bacharach: I came in late.
I was married to Angie Dickinson at the time.
And we came in from a Dodger game.
And I wasn't sure what I was hearing when I walked in.
It sounded like a Phil Spector record
because Sonny kind of functioned that way.
And that was the studio that Phil Spector always used [inaudible] wall
of sound.   Three guitar players.
A couple of percussion players.
It had no resemblance to what "Alfie" was about.
And I of course covered it immediately with Dionne.
Yeah.
>> Mark Horowitz: You mentioned I know talking with Hal
that you've worked all different ways.
Sometimes the lyric first, sometimes the melody first.
And sometimes more of a collaboration.
>> Burt Bacharach: Right.   Right.
>> Mark Horowitz: When you do get a melody first and you're setting it,
I've seen some composers --
you can see they'll have the lyric in front of them.
And they sort of mark out where they think the measure bars should be
or the accents should be.
So even before they look at a tune they're sort of getting a rhythm.
Is that part of your process at all?
>> Burt Bacharach: Yeah but I don't mark it.
It's my head.
>> Mark Horowitz: It's just in your head.
>> Burt Bacharach: It's in my head.
You know Promises, Promises was another situation
where the lyrics really had to come basically first.
Because they had to come off of a Neil Simon script.
So they had to be as seamless as possible.
So better to work with a lyric.
>> Mark Horowitz: See that shocks me.
Because my assumption would have been --
I mean, that's one of your songs
that has the most sort of meter changes in it.
And I would have thought that would have been the case
for when the music came first.
And that when it's the lyric first it would be sort
of a more traditional song.
But it's fascinating to me that it wasn't that way.
>> Burt Bacharach: Well, Mark, if you look at "Alfie" you'll see that,
I don't know, is it a twelve bar phrase, eleven bar phrase?
Something -- it's not an eight bar phrase.
See I starting in the music business I went through periods
where I wrote songs with Hal or Bob Henuard [assumed spelling]
or a couple of other writers.
And we gave them to record companies in ANR and ranges and so
and so would record a song.
You know I remember one instance of having a song
that I thought was really, really a good song
that had a three bar phrase.
And I was told that if you make it a four bar phrase I'll give you Joe
Stafford to record it.
Or I'll give you -- that was Joe Williams.
You know, a great singer with the Basie Band.
Well, god, maybe they're right.   Maybe I'm wrong.
Maybe they don't hear it as a three bar phrase.
But it was supposed to be a three bar phrase.
It wasn't supposed -- and then it became a four bar phrase.
It got ruined, you know.
And here's an example of -- I got very excited Sinatra was doing --
heard he was doing "Wives and Lovers" with the Basie Band.
And Quincy was doing -- Quincy Jones was doing.
And [inaudible].   It was in four.
It's an out and out waltz "wives and Lovers."
It isn't three-four.   It's not in four.
Quincy, what happened?   Why is it like in four?
And he said basically I can't play in three.
Maybe that's so, maybe it's not.
>> Mark Horowitz: The variation in the structure of the length
of measures and the timing of them was part of that
because of your training with Martin Newell and Cowl and [inaudible]?
Because you sort of came from that classical background
that you felt freer you think than other song writers?
>> Burt Bacharach: It certainly helped.
I mean, it certainly helped to be aware of the extreme extent of some
of the music that I was exposed to.
Whether it was John Gage or Lou Harrison --
listening to their concerts.
>> Mark Horowitz: So you do feel influenced
by other composers that way?
>> Burt Bacharach: Well, certainly there's a stockpile
of musical knowledge that you get.   You assimilate
. And, I mean, I never was much fun.   The plain vanilla three cord song.
You know, I was too sophisticated.   And I mean that in a different way.
To sophisticated musically.
So it's, you know, I tend to put the knife in the cord.
Though, you know, that changes [inaudible].
And right now there's something very basic about going.
I mean, I just did an orchestration because on the tour
in Australia I wrote an orchestration on.
I hadn't done it in a long time.
But one more thing is "I Just Don't Know What to Do With Myself."
And which is a really good song that I'd kind of forgotten.
And maybe one of the reasons I forget about sort of was
because it really does start [singing lyric] I just don't know
what to do with myself.
So it's basically a C cord going to an F cord.
Going back to a c cord.
And though I tried to play with -- let me see if I can go for pure C
and then go to an F. But let's put the second in there
in the right hand and it [inaudible] long.
And then there are cords that get to be very lush later.
Then the second four bars.   So minor 7th and minor 9th.
I'll [inaudible] major 7th that was opening bars are
structurally [inaudible].   It's a C major pure vanilla F pure.
>> Mark Horowitz: Just based on the title of the song it seems
like a perfect illustration of the title.
>> Burt Bacharach: Yeah, that's good.
That's good.   It's a good song.
And you know I hadn't been doing it in concert.
Did it one time with Elvis Costello,
but that was a different arrangement.
I wrote this arrangement because I knew we were dealing
with symphony orchestras down in Australia.
So I knew I could get the violins up in the atmosphere.
>> Mark Horowitz: You seem to have a pension for high string lines
for people singing high in the [inaudible] is there something --
>> Burt Bacharach: Well, particularly singers.
And that's why, you know, I've gravitated
to more to the female voice.
Is there more emotion that comes out?
I'm trying to think who gave me what I had want.
You know, Gene Pitney was great.
Trying to think of a male artist that had success
with -- Gene Pitney was great.   >> Mark Horowitz: Tom Jones?
>> Burt Bacharach: Tom was great.
But you know they're different voices.
They're -- Luther Vandross, you know and Isaac Hayes.
See I guess I was always gravitating towards the urban.
I mean that's why I think the album though it was kind of a cult album.
Album with Ron Isley is so special because he gave me everything
that I could possibly -- and he did it
where those were the vocals right there.
With a million musicians playing at the same time.
Bam.
>> Mark Horowitz: So many of the singers who perform
with you they may have wonderful ranges and amazing pitch
and all that, but they seem to be --
there's a light, breathy quality to them.
You don't -- especially the female singers you don't tend to work
with belters and big voices.
Is that similar to the high range that that's --
there's something in that sound that you're have a preference for?
>> Burt Bacharach: Yeah, I'm not big on working with the diva singers.
Maybe no names, you know.
That kind of go into great vocal tricks and things like that.
That's a different kind of of vocal trick than you get from Aretha.
Aretha will give you a [inaudible].
>> Mark Horowitz: So many of your songs have vocal melismas.
Are those -- do they evolve in the studio?
Or that's in the song from the very beginning?
[Inaudible comment] the Dionne song "Walk on By."
The way the by goes sort of at the end of the phrases.
You know it's not just a straight tone.
You know, the one note travels.
>> Burt Bacharach: Well, it travels through and it holds
with the two piano figure that comes in.
Walk on by and then you got that line that's going.
Which is the two pianos playing a little bit of a descent thing
which is a kind of a sense of urgency.
It's a interesting song when you really look at "Walk on By."
There is no bridge.   There is no chorus really.
>> Mark Horowitz: But always from the very beginning
that whole [singing lyric] walk on by sort
of the extension was always -- it wasn't something that she sort
of evolved with you in the studio?   >> Burt Bacharach: No.
>> Mark Horowitz: Okay.
When you compose for film, not the songs for films
but just instrumental music and you're not limited by the range
of a human voice, does that change how you write?
Do you feel freer in a different way?
Do you approach it differently?
>> Burt Bacharach: I think it's music you see.
And for me, Mark, it's been like a --
first on my score moves "What's New Pussycat."
And it was a terrifying experience because I didn't have much time.
Got the picture late.
I'd never seen a rough cut in my life.
Angie was very, very helpful.
>> Mark Horowitz: How was she helpful?
>> Burt Bacharach: Because she'd seen rough cuts.
>> Mark Horowitz: Okay.
>> Burt Bacharach: And she could change reels.
This was before we had DVDs, you know?
And she could change --   >> Mark Horowitz: Not in terms
of giving you musical ideas or something?
>> Burt Bacharach: No.   >> Mark Horowitz: Okay.
>> Burt Bacharach: But would help me through it.
And, you know, really get involved in the motion picture.
And that's why -- one of the reasons why I've done not that many.
I have to really kind of love it, be hooked on it.
And also pay a lot of attention to knowing it's not --
I've seen the movie 220 times by the time we got on scoring stage.
So I don't need the streamers.   I listen to the dialogue.
I know where the music is supposed to be out.
I've memorized the whole thing.   I will conduct with a click track.
I never did "Butch Cassidy" with a click track.
I mean, I just knew every line.
I knew, you know, with "Butch Cassidy"
which was just this amazing experience
because it was an amazing movie.
And that'll spoil you for a movie that might come your way afterwards.
And you look at it and you say can I see this 200 times?
>> Mark Horowitz: Do you agree just based on reading the scripts?
>> Burt Bacharach: No.
No. I mean, I knew Golden was a great writer.
Paul Newman, Redford, George Roy Hill was the director.
George Roy Hill -- when I went in to have a meeting with him
at 20th Century Fox, when you walk in to a director's office and he's
at the piano playing Bach --   >> Mark Horowitz: Really.
>> Burt Bacharach: -- you say, ooh,
this is really good, and this is really bad.
This is somebody who knows me.
And also he could be tough on your music.
So he was great.
You know, he knew exactly what he wanted.
Some directors get very nervous with a film because they're concerned.
And they want the music to save the film.
And more music is better than less music.
And what that does is make it more difficult, you know?
Nothing's going to save the film if it isn't there.
And George Roy Hill just said I've got these major sections
in this movie.   And that's where I want music.
And I want the music to be important.
And that's all I want.   That's where I want the music.
And I have to say that's courage on his part because I know
that when I was working on the bicycle scene and watching it --
I guess the point is trying to say it before, and I got side tracked.
I didn't get the theme on "What's New Pussycat."
Until I started watching Peter Sellers character over and over.
And I saw the craziness and the off center and the behavior
And, you know, this thing worked.
But if I had taken music notes and gone on my remembrance and recall
of what that film felt like, as the standard usually
with composers, or used to be anyway.
Take notes, film out music out of the scene [inaudible].
No, I never would have gotten that had I not lived
with Peter Sellers and his character.
And the same with Ursula Andress and [inaudible].
I kept watching her over and over,
which was something extraordinary to watch.
And [inaudible] born that way.   But it was a very sensual theme.
I scored it for a small rhythm section.
A very sexy [inaudible].   With a very loose count bosa feel.
And Hal added lyrics [inaudible].
And back to George Roy Hill and, you know, "Butch Cassidy."
That was big risk, you know.   For me I saw that bicycle scene,
and I had a melodic fragment that was working.
And very often what I do want is
when I'm writing I'll put down lyrics now.
I think Paul Simon does the same thing and he dumps them later.
But when he's writing he's putting words
that sound good on such and such a note.
I've done things where I write on trumpet parts like on a record date.
Words -- it's different than them playing an eighth note
and then a quarter note and another eighth note.
Mark Horowitz: Do you share it with musicians?
Burt Bacharach: Yeah.
They have to read and [inaudible] Absolutely.
[inaudible] that's got an attitude, you know, and say,
what is this supposed to mean, you know?
Or, hey, man, sing the part.   You play it like your singer.
"Stay With Me" is different [singing].
You'll play it differently.   They're no accents.
They're no marks.   They're no lines.
There's nothing that can replace the actual sing the part
on your trumpet.   And then the lyric means nothing.
It's not part of the lyric it's just part of your part.
So I kept hearing the title "Rain Drops Keep Falling on My Head."
>> Mark Horowitz: Which was different than what he'd asked
for originally [inaudible].
>> Burt Bacharach: He said write something.
Here's the bicycle sequence.
>> Mark Horowitz: But I thought you said grand themes is was what he
wanted --   >> Burt Bacharach: Yeah.
Yeah. It was a grand theme.   >> Mark Horowitz: Okay.
>> Burt Bacharach: He didn't say it's going to be a song there.
And I had the title.
It was a perfect place to have -- a line that we crossed actually
and Hal filled out the rest of the -- made a story out of --
"Rain Drops Keep Falling on My Head" that works.
I mean they're in Bolivia, and they're screwed.
They're going to get it.
I mean, they're going to lose in the end.
But at the moment, you know, it's kind of carefree thing.
And he took a chance.
Here's something that took place in Bolivia,
and it's the turn of the century.
And it's sort of like a cowboy picture.
And we're writing something that works for --
it certainly worked for the time and place
that this movie was taking place.
And yet you could play on top 40 radio.
And I know that we got -- he liked it.
Said let's go with it.   Who are we getting?
Ray Stevens, let's get Ray Stevens.
Ray Stevens is very -- would have been very appropriate
for -- so we flew him out.   Twentieth century flew him out.
[inaudible] the movie and heard the song.
He hated the movie and hated the song.
The demo [inaudible].
>> Mark Horowitz: Much to his regret.
>> Burt Bacharach: Who knows I guess.
>> Mark Horowitz: When you did "Promises, Promises,"
as far as you know it was your first musical,
was that a different process?   Did it surprise you?
Did you have to use different muscles than you've used before?
>> Burt Bacharach: The lyrics [inaudible] practically.
>> Mark Horowitz: Why was it that you asked Sondheim who to get
as an orchestrator for it?   Or that's always been the legend.
>> Burt Bacharach: I'm not sure how I found Jonathan Tunick.
Had Jonathan done -- or was it the other way around?
>> Mark Horowitz: You were the first Broadway musical he did.
And the story goes that you'd asked Sondheim to suggest somebody.
>> Burt Bacharach: I didn't know Steven.
See I may have asked him.
It may have been a conductor who was going
to conduct the show recommended Jonathan.
And then Jonathan went on and did all of Sondheim's stuff.
He's a wonderful orchestrator.   And wonderful to work with.
>> Mark Horowitz: When you work with other orchestrators, how do you --
how much information do you give them about what you want?
What you're hearing?
Or do you, like, see what they come up with first or --
>> Burt Bacharach: Jonathan was very cute.
He said I guess we just work together on some lovers.
And I'd sit for hours at the keyboard looking at the music.
And I'm basically telling him what I want.
Then he has the freedom to go --
he says I'm the only composer that he's ever done that with.
Whether others don't orchestrate or I don't think Steven does.
But I'm too much of a control freak.
I hear a line, and I'm good at just taking a pencil
and saying out, this is out.   This is, you know --
>> Mark Horowitz: Do you hear arrangements
that other people do of your songs.
And you're particularly pleasantly surprised that you say, oh,
even though it's different from what you had done you think the liberties
they took are interesting or good?
When in last night's concert when one of your numbers was done
with a reggae beat that was -- how do you respond to things like that?
>> Burt Bacharach: I love Stevie.   I love Stevie.
My favorite song to do with the reggae "Make It Easy on Yourself,"
no, of course not [inaudible].   On record it's a different thing.
In concert you can change it.
And I've got a record that was sent to me by a Philadelphia disc jockey
by a group called the Dales that recorded on Chess Records.
Where they recorded -- it was called the hits of Dionne Warwick,
and my name wasn't even mentioned.
But they were all my songs, Hal's and my songs.
And they're greater [inaudible].   And they were soulful.
And they changed cords, and they changed --
but it all kind of is okay.
When it's really in good taste, you know.
And the song in itself has been [inaudible].
See you have a new song.
Somebody goes and records it and changes it so on the first time
that song is used it's been altered.
Like Brook Benton did the first record of "A House is Not a Home."
And I said that's wrong.
Man, this guys getting paid to sing it [inaudible] film company.
It's too good a song.   I mean, you know, I'd say, Brook,
the chair is still a now the chair is still a chair.
And then [singing lyrics] even when there's no one sitting there.
Goes up in thirds, yeah.   You know his attitude was all.
Hey, man, listen, you know, I read music,
but I don't want to spoil my soul.
You know, give me a break it's back to the same thing.
You're on an airplane be able to write -- learn self edge.
Learn how to note take.   How to read a piece of music.
>> Mark Horowitz: Do you see an evolution
in your compositional process or that some composers seem
to get simpler as they get older?   That they don't need as much.
They become sort of less is more
and others become more wildly experimental
and are sort of pushing the envelope.
Do you see anything like that in your own work or --
>> Burt Bacharach: You know, [inaudible].
I think the album I did with Elvis Costello "Painted From Memory"
with the songs we wrote together, they're very special.
And they're very different.
And I could look at the score for "Some Lovers" I've done
with Steven Sater, which we're talking about now.
The next step would be Regional Theater possibly here in Washington.
This is one way to get to Broadway or off Broadway.
But is it a different way of writing music?
Hey, I don't have to make things complicated for people.
I remember with "Promises, Promises" Jerry Orbach after three months,
you know, and came in to see the show in New York.
And Jerry Orbach [inaudible] kind of angry said,
god dammit, I got to sing this song.
"Promises, Promises" [inaudible] Hardly catch my breath, you know.
And I think, yeah, he's right.
I don't like to make it difficult and hard for people.
I don't want to exhaust you with a song.
And be careful of that.
I am very careful about that with dynamics
in orchestration to, you know.
I don't want -- you know, I am my own judge,
not that audience out there.   That may get to judge the work.
It's got to pass by me.   It's got to live by me.
And if I'm questioning it by the third or fourth day --
it's, like, you know, you can hear a songs that are great for three
or four days a week [inaudible].   You don't want to hear them anymore.
"Promises, Promises" belonged to have this kind of energy.
The guy is angry.   He is through.
I mean, he's been shafted in that office.
And because people have been promising him things.
And he just - promises, promises I'm
through with promises, promises now, you know?
And it was hard to do it night after night with a change in tempo too.
Because, you know, unless you're working with a click track
or a preliminary click track to at least start
at the tempo you think that is the right tempo.
It may a shift, which I like.   I'm very much in favor of that.
With "Some Lovers" that we just did, I like the idea
that the conductor worked with a click track.
Because we knew what the tempo --
after fooling with it was the best tempo.
And at least have it as a preliminary click, you know?
He's hearing it in his headset.
Okay. The click is turned off when the music starts.
But at least we started in the tempo.
"Promises, Promises" Dionne recorded it and then [inaudible].
She floats through it with the greatest of ease.
Kind of fluid, fluid.
I don't want to make it difficult on --
>> Mark Horowitz: I didn't mean to suggest that.
>> Burt Bacharach: You know, I don't want to make it difficult
on an audience [inaudible].
So as far as changing my songs, you know, I was not crazy
about the record I made on "Say a Little Prayer" with Dionne.
And [inaudible comment] tempo yeah.
Tempo. And Aretha's record is far better, sorry.
You know. There's no doubt about it.   I love Aretha's record.
>> Mark Horowitz: It seems like one of the extraordinary things
about your work is in every way how it constantly shifts.
The colors shift.   The thickness of the texture shift.
The instrumentation.   The dynamics.
My sense is it sort of gives a aliveness to the things
and keeps a certain amount of surprise.
Is there a conscious thing about that?
Are you thinking about the audience's point of view then?
[inaudible comment]
>> Burt Bacharach: I'm not thinking about the audience.
I'm thinking about what's working for you.
>> Mark Horowitz: So you're the audience?
>> Burt Bacharach: Yeah.   It's got to pass my room.
It's got to have my blessing, and I got to be okay with it.
I got to go through the nights where I can't sleep
because I keep hearing the damn song in my head.
It's good and bad.
One is that you don't get much sleep, and the other is that it's
like a jukebox in your head.
And it's good when you're working like that.
And what was your question?
>> Mark Horowitz: The [inaudible comment] surprise is the color
[inaudible comment].
>> Burt Bacharach: So it's, like, you got a young singer.
And you brought a young singer to music.
Ah, it should be really great.
Can you write a song like "Don't Make Me Over"?
Could you do that?   And like I did for Dionne.
Kind of redo something like that.   Not going to do that.
I wouldn't know how to do that.   You move on.
The minute you stay stationary, you get stagnant.
And that's why for me that I haven't done it here since I've been here
in Washington, even at home.
If I'm not writing anything, [inaudible].
>> Mark Horowitz: Do you sometimes play just for pleasure?
>> Burt Bacharach: Keep in touch with my music [inaudible].
>> Mark Horowitz: I think our time is -- thank you for your time today.
>> Burt Bacharach: Ah, you're welcome.
>> Mark Horowitz: Thank you
for all the joys your work's given millions of us.
>> Burt Bacharach: I'm most appreciative of that, you know.
I'm most appreciative.
And the last thing I'll say is, you know, by writing this music
and being able to have this music the joy that it gives me
to then go out and perform it.   And being able to do that.
And being able to conduct a symphony orchestra.
And do my music.   And maybe make people feel good.
Feel something, you know.
Something in their heart or take their mind off
of something that's been bothering them.
That's a big plus.
Didn't know that was going to happen.
Back before someone suggested that I go on stage, you know?
Nice being here with you, Mark.
>> Mark Horowitz: It's our pleasure and my pleasure.
>> Burt Bacharach: Very enjoyable experience thank you.
>> This has been a presentation of the Library of Congress.