>> From the Library of Congress in Washington DC.
[ Silence ]
>> Well, good afternoon everybody and welcome to the African
and Middle Eastern Division.
I'm Mary-Jane Deeb, chief of the division and I'm delighted
to see you all to what promises to be a fascinating program.
Last year, the African and Middle Eastern Division's Africa Section,
in partnership with the Poetry and Literature Center
and The Africa Society of the National Summit
on Africa launched a new series called Conversations
with African Poets and Writers.
The series consists of a set of live webcast interviews with established
and emerging poets, short story writers, novelists, and playwrights
from the African continent and the African Diaspora.
Programs include readings and a moderated discussion led by staff
in the African Section of the Library's African
and Middle Eastern Division.
We've had Professor Ali Mazrui, the Albert Schweitzer Professor
in the Humanities at Binghamton University who gave us an overview
of the African literary scene today.
We have Susan Kiguli, a wonderful Ugandan poetess and scholar.
We have Keorapetse Kgositsile, the poet laureate of South Africa,
and Donato Ndongo, one of the most important writers
from the Republic of Guinea.
And we also had Helon Habila, an award winning Nigerian writer
who teaches at George Mason University.
In 2008, we had a conference on the famous Nigerian writer Chinua Achebe
to celebrate the 5th youth anniversary
of his book, "Things Fall Apart."
You can access these videotaped programs
on our division's website, www.loc.gov/rr/amed.
And today, we're launching our second year of the series,
together with our partners at the Poetry and Literature Center
and the Africa Society of the National Summit on Africa.
Unfortunately, Bernadette Paolo, the president of the Africa Societies
in New York would be unable to join us today.
Our speaker today is Mandlakayise Matyumza, the head of the Centre
for the Book in South Africa.
He is the guest of John Cole who is the director and founder
of the Centres for the Book which exists in all 50 states and in many,
many countries around the world.
The interview today would be conducted by one
of our area specialist for Southern Africa, Laverne Page, who has worked
in this division for over 30 years and has lived
and traveled all over Africa.
And now, Robert Casper, the head of the Library's Poetry
and Literature Center here at the Library
of Congress will say a few words.   [ Pause ]
>> Thank you, Mary-Jane.
We at the Poetry and Literature Center are delighted to be a part
of the Conversations with African Poets
and Writers Series now kicking off its second season.
I could not be prouder of the voices this series has brought
to the library and to celebrate the literary work
from throughout Africa in America's capital.
As Mary-Jane said, this series began as a partnership with the center
and the African and Middle Eastern Division of the library as well
as with the Africa society.
I am pleased that this event marks our first collaboration
with the library's Center for the Book as well.
For over 30 years, the Center for the Book has promoted books,
reading, literacy, and libraries.
Our reader today, Mandla Matyumza has a special connection
to our new co-sponsor.
Mr. Matyumza works as the executive head of the South African Centre
for the Book started just 12 years after its American counterpart.
Here to introduce Mr. Matyumza is John Cole, the founding director
of the library's Center for the Book and one of the leading lights
of this institution for the past 45 years, John.
[ Pause ]   >> Thank you, Rob, very much.
I'm here to introduce my new friend, relatively new friend
and my colleague, Mandla Matyumza.
He's a writer and a poet as you know, and as Rob has said,
he is the executive head of the Centre for the Book
in the National Library of South Africa.
He has held that position since 2007.
This is a sister Center for the Book whose creation back in 1998,
I'm very proud to be able to say it was inspired in part
by the National Center for the Book here at the Library
of Congress and by our activities.
Mandla graduated from Transkei University now called Walter
Sisulu University.
He graduated in 1994, received an advanced honors degree the
next year.
Until 2001, he was a researcher at the university and its Bureau
for African Research and Documentation.
So we have a researcher as well as a poet and an executive head
and a writer, so we have a multi-talented man here.
For the next two years, he was program manager
at the [inaudible] Community Development Center
and then he became the project manager
of the South African National Heritage Council.
Then, if you're following my chronology, he came to the Centre
for the Book South African Centre for the Book.
And I was fortunate to visit him in June in Cape Town, we flee
and since I love brochures, of course, I picked up the brochure
of the National Library in South Africa and went right to the Centre
for the Book page and it turns out that Mandla is the author
of this one-page description of the Centre for the Book.
I will read it and then turn it over to him to concentrate on his poetry,
his literature, and his writings.
Centre for the Books were spelled R-E
which took me awhile to get used to.
The Centre for the Book in the National Library
of South Africa aims to encourage the development
of the national literary culture by promoting the writing, publishing,
marketing, distribution, reading, and easy access
to books for all South Africans.
Its core functions are book development, lobbying, advocacy,
raising public awareness, and it serves as a hub of information
and advice for the book world.
The centre runs a number of projects in support of these aims some
of which have developed then developed specifically for children.
So please join me in welcoming Mandla Matyumza, Mandla?
[ Applause ]   [ Pause ]
>> Thank you, John.   Good morning ladies and gentlemen.
I will start by greeting you in my native language.
I am a Xhosa, language where our former president Nelson Mandela
comes from.
In my language regardless of whether it is morning, evening,
or afternoon, you say "molweni" and then you respond by saying
"ewe" then recite "molweni, ewe" thank you.
Please accept greetings from our former president
and statesman Nelson Mandela who is in good health
in Gono outside Umtata and the Eastern Cape.
[ Pause ]   I am so pleased this morning.
I am so pleased this morning to stand before you to share the state
of writing, publishing, reading in South African indigenous languages.
Ladies and gentlemen, 2012 marks a milestone in the history
of South Africa that the oldest liberation movement African National
Congress is celebrating hundredth years of selfless struggle
against white domination.
18 years into our democracy and freedom, there are a lot
of achievements to celebrate and cherish such as equal education,
such as, sorry-- such as equal education, freedom of association,
movement, freedom of expression, et cetera.
South Africa is the only country I know worldwide
to have 11 official languages.
What this means is that South Africa, what it means is
that South Africans are free to be serviced in any of these languages.
[ Pause ]
This is a must, too, especially to us writers who are writing
in these indigenous languages because we are free to write
and publish without fear in our own native languages.
We are, however, not naives about this, right,
as other African countries are still miles away to achieve that.
Ngugi wa Thiong'o lamented about this in his speech presented
at the South African Literary Award ceremony that took place
in July this year that and I quote.   [ Pause ]
[ Noise ]
"But in most African countries before and more
so African independence, the majority are denied access
to their languages because the state has marginalized them to the point
of official invisibility."   [ Pause ]
In Kenya, [inaudible] that in 2011, the government voted
to ban African languages in public places and this despite provision
in the new constitution to give life to these languages.
Fortunately, in South Africa, it is not the case as in Kenya, however,
South Africans are continuing
to alienate indigenous languages themselves.
Majority of parents continue to send their children
to English Medium Schools and further, forbid their children
to speak in these languages at home which is really is a setback.
Another setback is majority of writers, both established
and budding writers, increasingly are writing
and publishing in English.   Less and less reading material
in indigenous languages is produced for general readership.
Instead, books that are currently produced
in indigenous languages are tailored for school market.
You don't get these books in for general market.
Once again, our native languages are grossly affected by the status quo.
[ Pause ]
Less and less people read books published in these languages.
The youth are the worst culprits.
It is easy and it is happening ladies and gentlemen, to hear them,
the youth now, boasting about able to read and write
in their own languages in South Africa.
And not only the youth is so easy these days
to find a parent hardly saying that, "My child cannot speak isiXhosa."
It is really disheartening.
The study published by the South African Book Development Council
in 2007 confirmed this, that South Africa is not a reading nation.
One out seven people read daily.
The status quo is, again, has an adverse effect to authors
and publishers, authors who want to write and make a living
in their writing but they can't if there are no people
to buy and read their books.   [ Pause ]
Publishers want to continue publishing but can't
if these books will not bring dividends instead gather dust,
instead gather dusts in their bookshelves.
I remember publishing any book is a business decision.
This data produced by the Publishers Associations of South Africa,
we acronym it as PASA, Publishers Association
of South Africa review is that a best selling book
in South Africa sells approximately 5,000 copies in the first print run
in a country with 55 million people.
These are the books published in English.
It is worst with books published in indigenous languages.
[ Pause ]
We are, however, not holding our hands and wait for Jesus Christ
to come down and have mercy on us.
The National Library of South Africa together with the Department of Arts
and Culture, the Department of Arts and Culture and the National Library
of South Africa through Center for the Book has embarked
in an intensive campaign to revive the youths
of South African indigenous languages.
In 2008, The National Library of South Africa started a project
to reprint books that are considered classics in indigenous languages.
This project was done in phases through public
and private sector partnership.
It is now in the third phase and 68 titles have been reprinted
in all the nine indigenous languages and more
than two million books are now in circulation.
We have spent about 10 million rands on this project to date.
These books are distributed to all libraries and some are donated
to schools and book labs.
These books are exhibited at all literary events
and the project is yielding good results, thanks to the media
that is also on our side.   [ Pause ]
These books are generating a lot of interest
to the general public especially adults, however,
we are monitoring the youth behavior in as far
as these books are concerned.
This and more other programs of the Centre for the Book will get--
will help get South Africa reading again and more so read
in their native languages.
I would like to end my talk with the quotation from our statesman,
Nelson Mandela, in his book "Long Walk to Freedom," sorry.
[ Pause ]
And I quote, "If you talk to a man in English, you talk to his mind,
and if you talk to him in his native language, you talk to his heart."
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.   [ Applause ]
[ Pause ]
As an author myself who is writing and publishing in isiXhosa,
which is my home language, I was so thrilled this morning when I came
into this room to see my book in the United States of America.
I said, "Wow, you guys are doing great job and congratulations."
I will read briefly in my language so that you also enjoy the richness
of our language which is number-- which is a language spoken by by
about three million people in South Africa or about four,
The isiXhosa is number two after isiZulu in their chronology.
If you can go to the website by PEN South African languages part,
it will give you the language usage
in South Africa in terms of languages.
The isiZulu, isisXhosa, then Sesotho, English, Afrikaans.
So English is really as much as we speak it, it's not a--
it's not spoken by everyone in South Africa.
Remember South Africa is also a rural country.
I am going to read briefly in this book.
This was-- or is a collection of my essays
that I published in 1995 in South Africa.
And I will try not to read it all so that I don't bore you
because I know you will not be following this.
[ Foreign Language ]
Briefly here, ladies and gentlemen, I am comparing or talking
about the advantages
and disadvantages done by-- caused by heat where I--
[ Inaudible Remark ]   -- in Africa in--
[ Inaudible Remark ]
-- to the bed where that child is lying.
That bed has-- is that the child is covered with warm blankets
and this continuous fire that it is inside there to keep that child walk
so that a child can grow.
I am also talking about that when you, you grow vegetables,
for them to grow, they need warmth.   They need energy.
At the same time, that same energy, if it is too much,
it becomes dangerous to those plants.
So in a nutshell, that is what I am talking about in this essay
which is "Ubushushu," the warmth.
Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen.
[ Applause ]
I will now sit down and take a few questions from you.
[ Pause ]   >> Molweni.
>> Ewe.   >> Was that correct?
>> Yeah.   >> Molweni?
>> Yeah, molweni, but because I'm one, it's the singular and plural.
When in like this, you say "molweni," when are you telling
to me alone, you say "molo."   >> Molo.
>> Yes. Ewe.   >> Thank you.
Thank you so much for being here today.
It's enlightening for us to hear you speak about literature
in South Africa and also to hear you speak about your work.
At the library, we have many visitors, many researchers
with a variety of questions.
And you said something about our collection
which I was very gratified about.   We have your work here.
We have your work.   We have works of your colleagues
and other Xhosa speaking people from South Africa.
We have hundreds of items that we not only have individual books,
essays, collections of poetry, but we also have literary criticism
which is also quite helpful for people
who are studying about literature.
And I pulled a few items from our collection to show you later.
Collections of anthologies just, just large,
just large collections I think and it may be of interest to you.
I'm curious also about what you might have in your collection
in Cape Town that reflects the Xhosa people and Xhosa writers.
I wrote out a few questions so that we could learn more about you
and more about writing in South Africa and you mentioned youth
which is always something important, striking and revealing I think
about a culture to found out about what the children
and youth are doing.
Concerning you, let's start with you and I'm curious
about when you started writing and what you prefer, essays,
short stories, or poetry?   >> Thank you, thank you very much.
I started writing, I guess, it was in 1986 after I'm [inaudible]
in Congo, Congo where I was born and raised.
Apparently, I developed fond of my language
because my teacher was so inspirational to me.
And I started scribbling, scribbling [inaudible]
and I would show it to him to endorse it.
And then he would say, "Good stuff".
And then one day, something came to me, I saw myself writing this drama,
tried writing this drama then I've got kids in my village
to act some pieces of this drama,
and I started seeing people crying, crying, crying.
I said, "There must be something in me."
Now, I'm talking about writing and not publishing.
Then I went to university.
Then in 2000-- in 1992 if my memory serves me well,
I started writing poetry.
And I didn't want to write this poetry in English because--
and I preferred to write it in my isiXhosa
because that's only there then that I am comfortable
in expressing myself in my motherland, in my mother tongue,
and also knowing that this language for me is a language
that I have been inherited from my mother, from my father,
is a language that I communicate, that I got from my ancestors.
So I decided, I did not make a conscious decision to say,
"I want to write in my language, isiXhosa," but I think something
that was inborn to say, "Uh-uh, I am writing in my language."
And in 1992, I wrote isiXhosa poems that some of them were not published
but a few of them were published in a book that, as I speak with you,
it is in circulation in schools, in Transkei, a collection of--
anthology collection by Luwaca and Qamata,
it has about three collections.   Isibane 1, 2, and 3.
So my poems appeared in Isibane 1, 2, all of them in isiXhosa.
So that was my first piece to appear in a published book.
It started appearing in 1992 if my memory serves me well.
And from there, then I started,
because I was growing then and I was also reading.
I also like to share with you colleagues
that with us Xhosa speakers, we are not into writing too much.
We are into talking, into--
our poetry is more spontaneous where a poet will just end up
and start doing his or her own thing spontaneously.
But because now I was at the university
and I was studying towards my degree and then I was doing isiXhosa
because I had passed my metric, I've got B in isiXhosa.
Then I said, "Uh-uh, let me now start doing the research
and read more and find out who has written what in my isiXhosa."
And I started writing but my-- if I can answer your question,
I started writing poetry and then the rest came after.
Now, I write historical novel, I write essays,
I write short stories as well.   >> Thank you very much.
Do many of your friends, your colleagues also write in isiXhosa?
>> IsiXhosa.   >> IsiXhosa.
Do many of them also write in their mother language or in English?
>> So in my talk, I referred to that, but yes,
some of my colleagues do right in isiXhosa but most of them prefer
to write and express themselves in English.
Citing a lot of reasons for that, that there is no culture of reading
and even culture of buying books
in South Africa especially amongst us Africans and therefore,
if you want to reach more audience, because English is a medium,
is an international language.
Now, to reach more audience, then they prefer to write in English
and they then-- they say,
"If you write in isiXhosa then you don't reach wider audience."
So yes, my friends, some write in English and some write in isiXhosa
but now the trend in South Africa is that they prefer to write in English
because they say, "If you write in English, your audience is wider
than when you write in the native language."
>> Poets also say that and think that?
>> Interestingly, yes.
Before I close, I will share with you some of the research
that we have done at Centre for the Book.
Yes, our poets prefer and increasingly writing in English
but they also do poetry performance in isiXhosa.
And I was-- I can recall when I was criticizing one
of the young poets in Cape Town.
He, she does beautiful poetry in isiXhosa and we've assisted her
to publish her first book of poetry in isiXhosa.
But when she stands up to address or to render her piece,
she would say this, "I am sorry,
I am going to render this piece in isiXhosa."
And then I asked her, "Why are you apologetic about your language?
Why? Stand up!
We are in a free country about nine indigenous languages official,
be proud of who you are and be proud of your language."
So my point then is, yes, poets increasingly prefer
to express themselves in English more than isXhosa
but you still get those who express themselves in isiXhosa.
>> I have a series of questions here which relate to language and poetry.
So I'll read them rather than paraphrasing.
Many of us first heard isiXhosa through the voice of Miriam Makeba
and her Pata Pata song from the 1960s which according
to YouTube is her most famous song and it's still quite popular.
And there's a click sound that many
of us foreigners find quite appealing.
And because there is-- because poetry is--
or lyrics poetry and there are always sounds, I was thinking
that poets would-- there would be more poetry in isiXhosa.
I'm-- that was why I asked the question.
And I'm wondering in terms of language
and sound what your opinion is of how we, foreigners,
react to the melodic sound of isiXhosa, the pops and clicks
and there's another song.   How do you react to that?
>> You would be surprised that you not only foreigners are inspired
by the isiXhosa as a language, even fellow South Africans
because of the beauty of the language.
And I guess when you are listening to me already, you also listened
to me as I was navigating my words at clicking nicely, and Miriam,
may her soul rest in peace,
popularized our language here in States.
And she did that wonderfully in music and in poetry as well.
I don't know how to respond to your question but what I can say is,
it's not only foreigners, really, also South Africans themselves.
When one-- when a Xhosa person stands up
and start addressing people in isiXhosa, people would say,
"Sshh, please I want to listen.   I want to listen."
And thanks to, I guess, the history of our language
because they say we go these clicks from Khoisan found in Eastern Cape
that have got this click sound   [ Foreign Language ]
So-- and some of those click sounds, it's so difficult to translate them.
Yeah, it's so difficult to translate them.
You try to translate, you lose the meaning.
>> Okay. Thank you.
I'm wondering about the scenery for the book and it's involved
in popularizing poetry or writing among the youth in Cape Town.
You've expressed yourself, you already mentioned
that youth are not necessarily interested in reading.
I'm wondering, though, about music, contemporary music, because, again,
the lyrics are poetic, regardless of the content, it's still poetry.
Does that, in any way, affect reading?
Also, I was wondering about popular forms of literature
such as graphic novels or comic books, and then there was the series
that was done on President Mandela.
School-age children, what they might read, you did mention
that there's publishing
in indigenous languages for school-age children.
Is that, in any way, increasing the reading, the need for reading,
the-- what is that doing?   How is that affecting?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
I want to see that the Centre for the Book,
as John was introducing me, is an outreach or specialist unit
of the National Library of South Africa,
and its transpired mandate is to promote a cultural freedom
in writing and publishing in South Africa.
As much as we are based in Cape Town, but our scope is national.
And what-- we've got a whole lot of these programs that we have
to promote reading, love of reading, publishing.
And these programs are biased, mostly biased towards writing
and publishing in our native language.
And also, what we do, I was telling John some other day [inaudible]
we've got a writer's grant at the Centre for the Book
where we're saying, "We will only give you this money
to publish poetry, to publish fiction, work of creative art,
if you write in your native language."
And now, it was that saying, that trend that, now, because of this,
and in a sense, now, they're starting to come up writing
in indigenous language, but slowly, because we are not--
we worked very, very hard to encourage them to do that.
And not only that, not only that, we have book labs that we are assisting
at Centre for the Book to establish.
And these book labs, they target a lot of the--
we established these book labs in school, and we even give them--
donate books to these schools.
And most of the books that we donate are the books
in indigenous languages, so that we introduce them to books at--
when they are in schools.
And not only that, we've got children under the age--
from age zero to seven, where we develop writers and illustrators
to write for these young ones, because we believe strongly
that if we introduce them to books at that age, they will grow reading
and they will end up being lifelong readers.
Because in South Africa, we-- for a very long time, we are not so happy
with children's literature that we give our children,
because most of it, it's what's from the United States of America,
it's what's from the United Kingdom, Australia.
And what that cultural does not talk to cultural and social,
does not talk to these kids.
And then now we took it upon ourselves at Centre for the Book
to say, "We need to correct this."
And those books, now, when they are translated into isiXhosa,
now they change meaning, then your child would ask, "What is this dad?"
For an example, a child has never seen snow,
but you see a book talking about snow, you see a book talking
about a goat or a dog and a cat, and yet, in there,
cats are staying outside, and they don't stay with people.
So those are other things that we say, "No, no, no,
this needs to be corrected, and it must be done.
We must do it now."
So we are-- we've got that program to say,
"Let's train our own illustrators.
Let's train our own children writers" and we're doing quite well
in that, and in indigenous languages or African native languages.
So, yes, book labs are one of our programs, and then we assist
with the writer's grant, as well as develop a lot of posters
to promote reading, because at Centre for the Book,
one other program, the indigenous language [inaudible],
and all these into international literary events, we coordinate them
at the Centre for the Book.
And as a result, we develop a lot of posters, and then we distribute them
to all libraries and schools.
>> Well, you mentioned content and so I'm wondering
about with you personally, in terms of content, in terms of experiences,
I'm wondering if you could tell us about a personal or cultural
or political experience that influenced your writing.
When speaking of South Africa, apartheid always is one
of the elements brought into the discussion.
So I'm just wondering about you, not necessarily apartheid but something
that has influenced your writing that you could tell us about.
>> There are a lot of things that are influencing my writing and some
of the poems that I have produced, I have written,
have been influenced by a lot of things.
In South Africa, though, during apartheid era, there was a moment
where people were segregated into their own areas.
For an example, apartheid system established homeland system.
As John was introducing me, he says I studied
at the University of Transkei.
Transkei was one of the homeland states in Transkei
that was established by the apartheid government.
And we thought we were really independent.
We thought we are-- we were really a state in South Africa.
And yet, we had our brothers and sisters who went abroad
to fight for our own liberation.
And then, the system made it sure that it embeds on us
that we are better than that.
And if you talk about your brother who is in the United States,
who is in Tanzania, who is in UK, to fight for the task force,
then you can't talk about shame because your brother is a terrorist.
Then you read about those things in some of my poems where you'll see
that I am in a subtle way, in a way, that you dodge the system,
because if you can address it blindly,
you are sure you are going to jail.
Yeah. Then there was those eras that when you remember, I started writing
in 1994, but there were other works that I had
to written prior 1994 before our independence.
And I was also influenced by other writers.
There is this writer that I admire most, Siyongwana.
I hope you have his book here.
And we have [inaudible] that book which says "Ubulumko Bezinja"
and loosely translated as "Wisdom of Dogs."
Because it was so difficult for Rustum to express himself
and to tell the story as is, because surely, he was going to go to jail,
then he had to disguise and pretend as if he was just a doing a tea.
And then when he asked what these dogs, talking with dogs,
fighting with human beings.
Now, the state could not stop that because it was just a tea and yet,
it was not a tea, it was a story
about political situation in South Africa.
So politically, my poetry has also been influenced by that,
but not only that, there are other social factors
that have influenced my poetry.
It immediately after our-- the dawn of independence,
then we started seeing a lot of crime in prison,
then we started seeing a lot of imbalances that those
who are rich they become more rich and those
who are poor becomes more poor.
So my poetry also addresses that and some of my essays address
that to say, "No, no, no, no, we cannot be doing going on like
that if our own statesman, Nelson Mandela, said he's country belongs
to all who lives in it, Black and White."
So some of my-- not only me, though,
other writers as well are addressing those issues.
And another [inaudible] that is affecting
that the country is the issue of HIV and AIDS where everyday, everyday,
we bury families, we bury young ones.
Every now and then, we start to see a child [inaudible] families
because of this pandemic.
So there a lot of poetry and I also wrote about that in a collection
that I produced to do-- to say, "Hey, hey,
hey, hey, let's watch this.   It's here to carry all of us."
>> Thank you, thank you very much.
I think at this point, others should ask questions and I'll pass the mic
to you, so we could take maybe 10 minutes or so for questions.
[ Pause ]   >> First, thank you for waiting.
That was delightful to hear.   Secondly, I'm curious.
I was very encouraged by your efforts
to use indigenous languages in South Africa.
Do you have links with other group elsewhere
in Africa who do the same thing?
Are you aware of groups, say in West Africa who do what you do,
in let's say [inaudible] or in Congo or Central Africa for Cuba and Congo
or in Kinyarwanda or maybe Kikuyu, [inaudible].
Are you aware of other groups in other countries that do what you do,
and do you have links with them?   >> Yes and no.
Yes in that this year we hosted Chinua-- Ngugi wa Thiong'o,
maybe you know Ngugi wa Thiong'o, he's an established author
who is really vocal about development of mother tongue.
And then what we'd-- we don't have direct links with other authors
that are doing the same job in other South African--
in other African countries except to read about their works in internet
and all that, so yes and no.
What really worries us is South Africa at this stage
because we believe that charity begins at home.
[ Pause ]   >> Thank you.
I have a question.
You talked about the Khoisan language and I had--
I was privileged enough to watch a TV program a couple of days ago
where somebody was talking to some Khoisan people
and it's a beautiful language, full of-- a lot more clicks.
And I wanted to find out because Xhosa was influenced
by that language.   Are there others in South Africa
that have also incorporated those sounds into their language?
>> Are there what?
>> Of the native languages of South Africa,
are there other languages other than Xhosa that have incorporated some
of the sounds of the Xhosa language into their languages?
>> Yes, isiZulu.
Because isiZulu, the Nguni group, you've got isiXhosa,
isiZulu, isiNdebele, siSwati.
But the most language that was influenced
by the Khoisan people is isiXhosa, that's why I said here
that we are not influencing only foreigners.
We also influence language that's from within the country
because of the clicks as well.
Then the Sotho group and the Venda group, the Sotho group is Setswana,
Sepedi, and Sesotho are not influenced by that.
They don't have those clicks.
So the groups that I can say are really influenced is my language
isiXhosa as well as Nguni group.   [ Pause ]
>> I have a question about political [inaudible].
Mother tongue, native language, native tongue,
what's a good way to express that?   I'm not clear.
Sometimes, you were quite concerned about not offending
by using unacceptable term for something.
And so if you say native tongue, does that hark back to colonial days
or is that something that's acceptable now
or mother tongue or mother language?
You've said several, the indigenous language.
>> In South Africa, we really don't use native language, though,
we do not have any problem with that, because when you go
to our towns, you'll still find-- when you go to Cape Town,
you'll still see that we haven't changed them yet.
And now we are 18 years to our democracy.
You still have NY, native Yat, NYs.
And then you go to Eastern Cape in Tanzania
which is the second largest township in the country,
you still get these systems.
But there are those that we are really working very,
very hard to change.
But coming to this one, really, we have no problem
with mother tongue, native tongue part.
In South Africa, politically,
we are saying our language our mother tongue, indigenous languages,
African languages, though we do not have a problem with native
because now, we are native, because a native is a-- if you are--
you will check the meaning in the dictionary,
has no negative connotation at all.   So we have no problem with that.
>> Are there any other questions?
Well, I would like to thank you again for being here today.
And is there anything else you might like to add?
Is there something that you would like to tell us
about that I have not thought to ask you this afternoon or something
that we really need to know?
>> Yeah, I cannot go back, ladies and gentlemen, to South Africa
without acknowledging the good work that is done by the Library
of Congress, and especially my colleague, John Cole.
That really has-- I don't know how to express it, but to say thank you,
thank you, America for doing that to the entire world, to take--
to put even our countries underneath.
I want to touch on this that yesterday,
when I was touring the DC, I went to the World War II Monument.
Then I saw all these countries that participated there.
And South Africa was there and I said, "Hallelujah, God is great,"
and I took a picture of that.
And secondly, I-- you'll-- it's not easy to find--
I don't say they're not what they are, but to find an isiXhosa
in the United States of America, God is great.
But what I want also to say, "Keep up the good work."
And also to as-- in closing, we want to assure Americans
and fellow African-Americans that we will never stop fighting
for the truth, for the development and use of our indigenous languages,
of our African languages, because these are the only things,
languages are the only things that our [inaudible].
We did not-- we don't have gold, we don't have anything,
but at least, we have languages.
And I always say when I talk and talk to people that writing
and reading in your indigenous languages is good and bad.
You-- as in myself as Xhosa, you will never, never [inaudible]
in English because when ancestors come to you, I mean,
when you are a Xhosa person, when ancestors come to you,
come to you in indigenous, in isiXhosa and not in English.
So we will continue fighting for the development
of our indigenous languages.
And we hope and sincerely hope that through you guys here,
you will assist us in doing that because I know America has got lot
of resources [laughs], a lot of resources
and I am also looking forward to come back here again
because today is my last day with you.
And I was saying to John, "John, please talk to President Obama.
He must give me a plot so that I come and stay in America [laughs]."
Thank you very, very much.   [Applause]
>> This has been a presentation of the Library of Congress.