>> From the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C.
[ Silence ]
>> Nancy: Today I have the honor
of introducing a distinguished Chicago based Researcher
and Author, Bob Riesman.
Bob has a long standing interest and dedication
to the traditional music scene.
His past accomplishments include co-editing the book, "Chicago Folk:
Images of the 60's Music Scene-The Photographs of Raeburn Flerlage."
>> Flerlage.
>> Nancy: Not even close, Flerlage.
He also produced and co-wrote the television documentary,
"America Roots: Chicago" and was a contributor to Routledge's,
"Encyclopedia of the Blues."
Today Bob has joined us to talk about his latest book,
"I Feel So Good: The Life and Times of Big Bill Broonzy",
which is an excellent exploration of the contributions and artistry
of a nationally prominent
and socially influential blues musician published
by The University of Chicago Press.
The book, which has just appeared
in paperback was recently awarded the 2013 Keeping Blues Alive Award
for Literature by the Blues Foundation
and also received a Certificate of American-- of Merit from ARSC,
the Association of Recorded Sound Collections.
The awards are well deserved Bob books is a compelling read
on an important cultural figure whose contributions have been really
been under-documented before his publication.
Not only can I recommend it, but fortunately we have copies
for sale on-- in the foyer on your way out and Bob has kindly agreed
to do a book signing immediately following his talk.
Finally, today I'd like to recognize and welcome
to the library Mr. Otis Tolbert Jr.,
who is Big Bill Broonzy's great grand nephew and is here
to represent the family at this event.
So, with that in mind, would you please join me
in welcoming Bob Riesman for this talk on, "I Feel So Good: The Life
and Times of Big Bill Broonzy."
[ Applause ]
[ Moving around ]
>> Bob Riesman: What an honor it is to be here and thanks
to all of you for coming.
I want to start out by thanking Nancy and a number of other
of colleagues, the library-- at the Library of Congress.
It was the American Folk Life Centers Archives
that was the first place I went when I started research
on the book almost a dozen years ago.
So, my thanks to Todd Harvey, to Matt Barton and Joe Hickerson
and thanks to John Gold for running the sound for this event.
I also want to thank the people at the Alan Lomax Archive,
Anna Lomax Wood, Dawn Fleming, Nathan Salsberg and Bert Lyons
for their tremendous help with that very important collection.
And I'd like to echo Nancy's words in recognizing Otis.
Otis's mother, Rosie Tolbert and his aunt Joanne Jackson, were the people
who made it possible for me to be able to learn the story
of Big Bill Broonzy's origins, which I'll talk about in a little bit.
And Otis it's through your mother and your aunt's gracious generosity
and patience in answering lots of questions, but their willingness
to be extraordinarily forthcoming with what they were willing to share
that made it possible for me to do this research, so thank you
and it's an honor to have you here.
[ Applause ]
[ Silence ]
>> Who was Big Bill Broonzy and why does he merit our attention?
I'll have a few things to say about that during the course
of these remarks, but the place to start is letting the man speak
for himself with his guitar.
[ Music ]
>> Okay. That was Big Bill performing at a summer camp
at a cooperative called Circle Pine Center in Michigan in the summer
of 1957 and it was footage shot by Pete Seeger with whom Bill appeared
up at Circle Pines at that time.
And I think you could make a very good case
that this was really the first instructional video
of a blues musician.
If you notice how Pete made a point of capturing Bill's left hand
and his right hand and it's a wonderful-- it's a marvelous song.
Some of you may know it, it's, "Hey Hey."
Eric Clapton has covered it among others.
And it shows his ability with his thumb holding down the bass line
and his fingers playing the melody on top.
Quick overview of Big Bill Broonzy; he was a towering figure
in the history of the blues.
Over the course of his 30 year career he wrote
and recorded hundreds of songs.
He was an unusually versatile blues musician, which enabled him--
unusually versatile musician enabling him
to have an impact not only in the blues world, but also beyond.
With his friends and musical colleagues, Allan Lomax, Pete Seeger
and Studs Terkel he laid the groundwork for the folk revival
of the 1950's and 60's both in the U.S. and also in Great Britain.
Big Bill was a trailblazer who in bringing the blues
to international audiences, which I'll have more to say during the,
during the course of the remarks and he was a creative artist who spoke
out against racial injustice in his writings,
in his songs and in his interviews.
Let me say a few words about how I came to write this book.
It was about a dozen years ago and I started
out as a fan of blues and folk music.
I was no more than a fan, but I was no less than a fan.
And so, I began by reading biographies of leading figures,
Woody Guthrie, Leadbelly, Muddy Waters and histories of those genres
as well and I kept coming across the name Big Bill Broonzy.
And I realized I knew the name, but I didn't know his music
and it was the music that was the point of entry for me.
And as I started listing and was really drawn
in by his warm expressive singing and his--
both his versatility as a guitar player and also just the sheer power
of his talent I was really knocked out.
Then exploring a little deeper I learned he had written an
autobiography, which was published both in Europe and the U.S.
in the mid 1950's called, "Big Bill Blues" in which he would see--
he hand wrote it as it turns out and then a Belgian couple Yannick
and Margo Bruynoghe helped to edit it into the book form.
And it was when I read, "Big Bill Blues" that I realized
that Big Bill was someone who had an uncommon gift with words,
which included songwriting but was not limited to that.
And so, it seemed at that point that this might be fertile ground.
As I talked to people in the book world
and the music world I got a unanimous response,
which was yes this was a project worth pursuing,
that Big Bill was someone
who had not gotten the recognition that he deserved.
Now, I'd never done anything remotely like this before,
but I did have a background in human resources
and in human resources the building block
of matter is the job description.
So, I thought okay, what's the job description
for a would be biographer?
Well, you start out by saying you need
to find the fact based documentation to support the story
that Bill had told about his life.
That he had been born Big Bill Broonzy
in 1893 in Scott, Mississippi.
So, that's what I did.
I set about finding the materials
that would enable me to document that.
And after months and then months and then more months
of looking I realized that the figure
who offered the best evaluation of my status
at this point was Winnie the Pooh who had noted at one point
that he was looking for something and the more he looked
for the more it wasn't there.
And so, I realized that this--
I was going to have to find a different approach
to finding the story of Big Bill's origins.
And so, it wasn't for another year or so when I was fortunate enough
to travel to Amsterdam and I spent a day with Pim van Isveldt.
Pim was a Dutch woman with whom Big Bill had a relationship
in the mid 1950's and also a child; Michael van Isveldt
who is a theater director in Amsterdam and still very much
with us, and Pim was very forthcoming in sharing.
I went with two Dutch blues researchers.
We spent the day at her home and she shared lots of memories,
observations about Big Bill and their time together.
And at the very end of the day we were just--
we were wrapping up and Pim said,
"You know there's something you might be interested in seeing."
And so, she went to another part of the apartment
and she came back literally with a shoebox.
And in this shoebox were dozens and dozens of letters
that she had received from Big Bill.
Now, Big Bill-- I knew that Big Bill had corresponded with people
and in the course of my research and this was a big turning point
in that, I realized he was quite a prolific correspondent.
But, there was no way at the end of the day that we--
literally the end of the day, it was late in the afternoon
and she had been very generous with her time.
And so, the one thing that I could do in that circumstance was to write
down the return addresses and note the postmark that were
on the envelopes for the letters that Bill had sent,
because that would enable me at a minimum to continue to fill
in the timeline that I was putting together
for Bill's European travels.
And it was when I found a return address with the name Wesley
and the town listed as North Little Rock,
Arkansas that I got my first real breakthrough
in tracing Big Bill's origins.
That enabled me to come back to Chicago.
I did as much research as I could do from Chicago and then I traveled
to Arkansas to get there and just see what I could find
about Wesley and North Little Rock.
I went to the State History Archives in Arkansas
and through the assistance of staff members there I located an obituary
for Bill's sister, Laney Bradley Wesley and it was that obituary
that led me finally to Otis's mother and aunt.
And it happened this way, the staff member who'd been helpful
with locating the obituary said, "Bob,
you're from the north" and I said, "I am."
And she said, "Do you-- I'll bet you don't know
about Wednesday night Bible study?"
And I said, "I really don't."
And she said, "Well, it's Wednesday night and you should go
to the church that's listed on the obituary
as where Ms. Wesley's funeral service took place and see
if anybody knows anybody."
So, I went to the Warren Hill Missionary Baptist Church
and was welcomed by the congregation and explained what I was there for
and a gentleman went to the back of room to the phone on the wall
and said, "Let me see if I can help you."
And so, it was in the middle of actually discussing the Book of Job,
the Iraq War had just started and for many people
at the table this was not an abstract issue.
But, I get an elbow in the ribs from the person next to me, said,
"Guy in the back of the room wants you."
And so, it was that on the other end of the line
of that phone was Otis's mother, Rosie Tolbert.
And so, it was the next day that I was able to meet with two members
of the Bradley clan and, in fact, was able from that point forward
to determine that Big Bill Broonzy in fact had been born not in 1893,
but in 1903 and not in Scott, Mississippi but in Jefferson County,
Arkansas about 65 miles southwest--
sorry, southeast of Little Rock near Lake Dick.
Now, I want to stress a point here, which was having learned this,
the challenge then became how to write about this,
how to incorporate this into a biography.
And I struggled with this for some time and the conclusion I came
to was the way to proceed was to tell both stories.
It was both to present the fact based documentation that supports
that Big Bill was born Lee Conley Bradley in 1903
and there was a whole set of materials, Social Security records,
marriage licenses, lots of things supporting that.
But, of equal, and I'd argue greater importance, was to tell the story
that Bill told about himself and his family in his autobiography
and his interviews with, particularly with Allan Lomax
because it was-- those to me illustrate
so compellingly Bill's imaginative powers and narrative powers.
Because even if he created composite characters and even
if he took information he got from people who had served, probably--
his brother did serve in World War I and probably was overseas
and therefore could provide an account of what it was
like to be a black soldier in the infantry in-- during World War I.
Bill's ability to tell the story in the first person made it possible
for him to convey and at this point the time he was writing his
autobiography, the time he was giving interviews,
was a time that he was shifting to presenting himself
to primarily white audiences.
So, it was a way for Bill to tell the story
of the African American experience in this country
and beyond its borders to an audience that was less rather
than more familiar with it and to do it in a way that would be indelible.
And I think that's what I would argue should be the focus of looking
at the relationship between the facts and Bill's story.
And it was Studs Terkel with whom Bill worked very closely
for the rest-- the last dozen years of his life,
who I think summed it up.
Studs said, "Bill is always telling the truth, his truth."
I just need to get a drink of water.
Okay, let's get to Bill's career as a musician.
He grew up in Jefferson County, Arkansas in an economically poor,
but culturally rich community.
His first exposure to music came from both sacred sources
and secular sources and in particular,
his early musical training came
as being a member of a black string band.
Now, black string bands were the primary musical unit
in most rural African American communities.
They would play for church picnics.
They would play for country dances.
Bill started out as a fiddle player and I have to note, Nancy mentioned
that there's an extraordinary collection of fiddles in this room.
I think they're called violins actually sorry [Laughter] including
those made by Stradivarius.
Well, Bill started out with a much humbler version
of what's in those display cases.
It was a homemade corn stalk fiddle.
He graduated to more conventional instruments,
but the black string band generally included some combination
of a mandolin, a banjo, a guitar, a bass and fiddle and it was there
that Bill received his primary musical training.
And a key point to note here is Bill had a dual experience
by participating in this ensemble.
One was he had to be able to step up and take the lead as--
in driving the melody forward for the dancers when it was time for him
to be showcased as the fiddle player, so he had to master that.
But, in addition to that he had to play effectively as a member
of an ensemble and it was that quality
that enabled him 20 years later as he became
and then maintained his status as a blues star in Chicago.
He not only recorded 20 years later in his own right as a star,
as Big Bill, but he also was the first called guitar player
at that point were most of the other successful blues musicians
who were recording in Chicago in that period,
in the mid to late 1930's and into the 1940's, because of his ability
to make the people or the performers that he was trying
to support sound even better as a consequence of him backing them up.
That also years later it did--
it was also a contribution to his revenue stream,
so it helped him in a variety of ways.
Bill then traveled in the early to mid 1920's up to Chicago as part
of The Great Migration, hundreds of thousand African Americans moving
from the south to the north.
As with many black families he had a family member in Chicago.
He had a brother who was a Pullman car porter
and he started out-- that was his foothold.
Now, it was a wonderful time to come to Chicago
as an ambitious young musician.
Chicago was in the process of becoming a center of black music.
Remember, this is a time where at the jazz clubs
in Chicago Jelly Roll Morton had come to town and King Oliver
and Louis Armstrong had extended residencies.
So, you had some of the finest musicians playing in the genre
at the time in and around Chicago and it was also the site
of recording for the leading blues record company
at that Paramount Records.
Now, Paramount was based in Wisconsin,
but they did their recording in Chicago.
So, Bill stepped into a situation, which was fertile ground
and two things happened at this point for him,
which set him on his course and his trajectory.
One was he recognized by listening to what the popular music--
what the records were, what the music was--
is being played in the blues world in particular,
the leading was not the music that he had been playing.
What he would have heard and what he did hear were solo performers
accompanying themselves on guitar, Blind Lemon Jefferson
and Blind Blake, in particular.
They were recording in the 20, 25, 26, 27 these were periods
where there was really a creative explosion.
Bill recognized that and he recognized that he was not going
to get very far as a country fiddle player.
This was characteristic of Bill throughout his career,
his ability to identify when his current style was not what was going
to be the coming thing, to both have that awareness and then
to have the ability and the discipline to find a way
to master what the next style was going to be.
So, what did he do at this point?
He recognized he needed to learn to play the guitar.
That was the happening thing and he found a mentor.
The mentor was one of the leading blues stars
at that particular moment, a guy named Papa Charlie Jackson.
And he described that Papa Charlie helped teach him a little bit
on the guitar, helped him get to Maxwell Street,
the famous open air market to get a guitar, but most important,
Papa Charlie had just had a big hit
with a song called, "Salty Dog Blues."
And what Papa Charlie did, which he had recorded for Paramount,
what Charlie did was use the stature that he had as a successful artist
to help someone who was coming along behind him.
So, Papa Charlie introduced Big Bill to the leading figure in--
at Paramount, therefore the leading figure in blues recording in Chicago
at that time, a guy named J. Mayo Williams.
Now, he was known as Ink Williams because of his success
in signing artists who would then go onto be successful.
This was a template for Bill and it was something that served as model
for him and for whom-- and which he incorporated into his own life
such that he was a mentor and a similar way too several generations
of blues artists after that.
So, Bill got himself ready, got a second guitar player with him,
went in, they auditioned
and Ink Williams said, "You're not ready yet."
Went back, worked a little harder, came back in and finally succeeded
in getting his, getting his record made.
That launched his career in the late 1920's.
Shortly thereafter a new style emerged, so Bill had to once again,
and very quickly, make an adjustment and the style was hokum--
it was known as hokum music.
The big hit was a song called, "It's Tight Like That."
Hokum music to characterize it
as double entendre music would actually be a gross distortion
of the English language.
[Laughter] It was single entendre music.
It was party music and it was played in settings like house rent parties
because at that point there weren't the blues clubs that--
for which Chicago has become known since the, since the 1940's onward.
These were literally gatherings in somebody's apartment,
they'd have a piano there, a guitar player would show up,
some potluck food.
It's prohibition, so somebody's got to bring the illegal booze
and everybody kicks in a little something
so that person you know the apartment owners
or the renter can pay the rent.
But, the point is that was the scale on which it was operating
and everybody was there just to have a good time.
So, let's go to a record-- the first audio selection.
This is a song that Bill recorded called, "Eagle Riding Papa."
The-- it's worth noting that the piano player
in this ensemble is named Georgia Tom.
Now, he was Georgia Tom Dorsey when he was a blues player,
but several years after this he became Thomas A. Dorsey,
the father of modern gospel music.
So, let's listen to a brief clip from, "Eagle Riding Papa"
and listen particularly for Bill playing the guitar as--
he's not singing, but he's playing guitar.
This is an instrument he only recently has mastered.
[ Music ]
>> [Singing] Listen everybody from near and far, you want to know just
who we are, eagle riding papa from Tennessee.
Now if you like the way we play, listen boy we try
to say eagle riding papa from Tennessee.
All night long we sing this song,
if you get this song you can't go wrong at all.
We'll make you loose, we'll make you tight,
make you shake it till broad daylight eagle riding papa
from Tennessee.
[ Music ]
>> Bob Riesman: You can hear some of--
some characteristic guitar playing of Bill.
There's a propulsive quality to it.
He's driving it forward.
And as Martin Carthy the British recording artist
and great folk musician who was one of the many admirers in England
in the 1950's-60's moving forward of Bill said,
"Whatever Bill played it just swung like mad."
And that's-- you can hear that running
through so much of Bill's music.
Over the period of-- from the 1930's,
really through World War II Bill rose to the status of being one
of the leading blue stars in the U.S. He honed his skills,
both as a songwriter-- or as a songwriter, as a guitarist
and a singer and he matured in each of those realms.
He was-- the challenge, the standard that he had to meet by being--
for being popular is that he be prolific and he had to be the one
who was writing his own music.
It was not as though it was Chess Studios several decades later
where someone like Willie Dixon may be writing songs
for a set of other people to play.
Bill had to show up with the music that he was going to record
and he also wrote songs in addition for some of his other colleagues.
So, he wrote in different voices, he wrote in different styles.
Let's hear one of, one of the songs that has become a blues standard.
Muddy Waters recorded it a number
of times particularly in tribute to Bill.
This is-- this is from the early 1940's-- I'm sorry I take it back.
Back up just a second.
The first selection we're going to hear here is--
it's called, "Long Tall Mama"
and what you'll hear is Bill integrating both his guitar playing
and his voice and using the songwriting as a framework
to showcase both of those.
[ Music ]
>> Big Bill Broonzy: Got a long tall mama,
she stands about seven feet nine, got a long tall mama she stands
about seven feet nine and when she gets
to loving holler papa won't you take your time.
Oh, when she start to loving she sure can do her stuff
and she squeezing so tight holler mama Lordy that's enough.
[ Music ]
>> [Singing] Got a brand new movement one that she calls her own,
got a brand new movement one that she calls her own and when she start
to kissing make a poor man leave his home.
[ Music ]
>> Bob Riesman: Eric Clapton has identified Big Bill as both an early
and an enduring inspiration and one of the things he said
about Bill's guitar playing is that,
"There's an almost mathematical precision to it."
And what I think you can hear in there is this combination
of the almost mathematical precision that swings at the same time.
The next selection came from a few years later, again the early 1940's.
By now Bill was well established
and it's a song called, "I Feel So Good."
[ Music ]
>> Big Bill Broonzy: [Singing] I got a letter.
It come to me by mail.
My baby says she's coming home and I hope that she don't fail.
You know I feel so good, yea I feel so good, now I feel so good baby,
I feel like balling the jack.
I feel so good.
I hope I always will.
I feel just like a Jack out with a Jenny well behind the hill.
You know I feel so good.
>> Yea man.
>> Big Bill Broonzy: [Singing] Yes I feel so good,
I feel so good baby I feel like balling the jack, tickler her hoss.
>> Bob Riesman: I think that's a wonderful example of a number
of things, but in particular there's a full throated quality
to Bill's singing.
He always described himself as a blues singer.
And Allan Lomax wrote once about Bill as having
that rooster crow in his voice.
It's December 1938 and imagine that we are at Carnegie Hall.
There is an unprecedented concert we're here for,
this unprecedented showcase event.
It's called, "From Spirituals to Swing" and it was the idea
and execution of John Hammond.
Now, John Hammond had one of the most extraordinary careers
in the history of American music.
John Hammond recorded Bessie Smith and Billy Armstrong
and John Hammond recorded Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen.
In 1938, John Hammond was someone who was passionate
about racial equality and passionately
against racial injustice and passionate
about African American music.
And so, it was his conception to bring
to a New York audience the diversity and the vitality
of African American music.
So, he called it-- the subtitle was, "An Evening of American Negro Music"
and he went for the various genres
to get the best performers he could find.
So, for jazz he got Count Basie, he got Count Basie and Sidney Bechet.
And for gospel he got Sister Rosseta Tharpe.
For blues, well the person he wanted to get was Robert Johnson,
but when he found that Robert Johnson had been tragically murdered
earlier that year, through his contacts
in the music business he persuaded Big Bill Broonzy to travel
from Chicago to New York City.
So, the setting is not just that it's a packed house.
It's that there are several hundred seats that had been put on the stage
at Carnegie Hall and Big Bill comes up with his guitar
and performs a song that he debuts in this setting.
He had not recorded this song before.
So, this is the one song that we'll play in its entirety.
And let's hear what Big Bill did.
Oh, it's called, "Just a Dream."
[ Music ]
>> Big Bill Broonzy: [Singing] It was a dream,
just a dream I had on my mind.
[ Music ]
>> [Singing] It was a dream, just a dream I had on my mind
and when I woke up not a thing could I find.
[ Music ]
>> [Singing] I dreamed I went
out with an angel, and she had a good time.
I dreamed I was satisfied, and nothing to worry my mind,
but it was just a dream, just a dream I had on my mind.
[ Music ]
>> [Singing] And when I woke up not an angel could I find.
I dreamed I played policy and played the horses too.
I dreamed I win so much money I didn't know what to do,
but that was just a dream, just a dream I had on my mind.
[ Music ]
>> [Singing] And when I woke up not a penny could I find.
[ Music ]
>> [Singing] I dreamed I was in the White House sitting
in the President's chair.
I dreamed he shaked my hand, said Bill I'm glad you're here,
but that was just a dream.
[Laughter] Lord, what a dream I had on my mind.
And when I woke up not a chair could I find.
[ Music ]
>> [Singing] I dreamed I got married and started a little family,
I dreamed I had ten children and they all looked just like me,
but that was just a dream.
Lord a dream I had on my mind.
[ Music ]
>> [Singing] And when I woke up not a child could I find.
[ Music ]
>> Bob Riesman: What did he do in that setting?
He comes onto the most prestigious stage
in the United States facing a larger audience than he had ever seen,
a predominantly white audience in New York City and he captivates them
and he does it through this combination of attributes.
He's got a song that has this--
it's masterful songwriting because he has this ingenious device
of the dream, which is he presents and then he snatches it away,
which is a human experience.
We can all relate to that.
And then what he drops in as each of the different elements that--
where hopes are dashed these are, these are powerful images
and in particular here you have an African American performer standing
onstage at Carnegie Hall singing a song
in which he imagines an African American in The Oval Office.
This is 1938 and to me this is truly a remarkable presentation.
For Bill internally this was, and professionally this was a turning--
this was the turning point in his career, because what he learned
from this experience was that he could get up in front
of an audience just with his guitar, he didn't need an ensemble.
At this point all the recordings he's doing are with piano, drums,
horns and just with his guitar all he needs are his songwriting
abilities, his singing, his guitar playing and his charisma,
his ability to present to an audience in a way
that he will win them over.
In the years after World War II Bill basically put that plan into action.
He shifted his focus from primarily directing his efforts toward African
American audiences towards--
and more in the direction of white audiences and increasingly playing
as a solo acoustic performer.
There was an organization that started in New York City
at the very end of World War II
that gave him a real boost in these efforts.
It was called People's Song.
It was founded by Pete Seeger and members
of the group included Allan Lomax, Woodie Guthrie and others.
And these were primarily people who had served
in the armed forces during the war and come back and wanted
to devote their creative energies to the service of a set
of social causes that they believed in strongly.
One was fighting for strong unions.
The other was fighting for racial justice.
And so it was in different--
and music was primary tool that they would use.
Allan Lomax presented a set of concerts in New York City
at Town Hall in which Bill performed
and in addition they had small scale gatherings called People's Songs
Hoots, which was short for hootenanny.
This was 20 years before it became a popular term in the 60's,
but it was a term that Pete Seeger and Woodie Guthrie had learned
about from traveling, performing for unions in the Pacific Northwest
in the years before World War II.
But, it was that People's Songs Hoots in Chicago
because People's Songs expanded beyond New York City
that Bill met two people that he became very closely associated
with for the rest of his life, namely Studs Terkel and Win Stracke.
Studs at the time was years away
from becoming America's preeminent oral historian.
He at the time was a disc jockey for Chicago radio station.
Win Stracke was a professionally trained singer who would go
on in later years to co-found the Old Town School of Folk Music.
Those-- that-- the three of them Win,
Bill and Studs would form the nucleus
of the seminal folk music group music in Chicago,
a group called I Come For to Sing,
which in later years really set the groundwork, laid the framework
for the folksong advance in Chicago in the 1950's-60's and going forward
because they had a successful residency,
a regular Monday night gig for a number of years in the early 50's
at a press-- at the most prestigious jazz club in Chicago.
It was at People's Songs concerts and hoots that Bill debuted
and then performed the song that is as much of an anthem
as the pre-Civil Rights had.
Remember this is an era in the 1940's
where the Civil Right Movement in an embryonic, very early stage.
Well before the convergence of political action and music
that happened 15 or so years later.
But, Bill had written a song,
which I think also presents his songwriting skills in sharp focus
because of its ability to convey a message along
with a singable chorus.
So, we'll now hear, "Black, Brown and White Blues."
>>Big Bill Broonzy:
[ Singing] This little song that I'm singin' about people you it's true,
if you're black and got to work for living now,
this is what they will say to you.
They says if you was white your alright,
if you was brown stick around, but as you black oh brother,
get back, get back, get back.
I was in a place one night, they was all having fun,
they was all buying beer and wine, but they would not sell me none.
They said if you was white you'd be alright,
if you was brown stick around, but as you black oh brother,
get back, get back, get back.
He went to employment office, got a number and I got in line,
they called everybody's number, but they never did call mine.
They said if you was white, you'd be alright,
if you was brown stick around, but as you black oh brother,
get back, get back, get back.
>> Bob Riesman: In the early and mid 1950's Bill traveled
to Europe half a dozen times and he truly established himself
as the first and a remarkably effective ambassador of the blues.
He toured in-- across the continent
and he had a particular impact in England.
He-- the Dutch, sorry.
The Belgian couple, Yannick and Margo Bruynoghe I mentioned earlier,
had made a documentary of Bill performing in a Belgian jazz club.
That documentary was shown on British television.
So, in the mid 1950's, TV as a new medium was being watched
by a generation of British teenagers for whom this is pretty cool stuff.
And so, as a consequence of that there was a set
of British teenagers who's-- one of who's, or sorry,
as their first exposure to a moving image
to watching a blues musician perform was Big Bill Broonzy on British TV
and several of these British teenagers grew
up to be Eric Clapton, Pete Townsend, Ray Davis, Keith Richards.
And the-- Eric Clapton described the impact on him
of watching this clip of Big Bill.
He said, "The music alone would have been enough to captivate me,
but to see this image of the solitary blues musician."
It was very atmospheric footage.
There's a bare light bulb above his head.
He's playing the guitar.
Cigarette smoke is curling behind him.
As Eric Clapton said, "It was like looking into Heaven."
Now, of that group of musicians that went on with their colleagues
to revolutionize popular music in the decades after that,
while some of them, particularly Eric Clapton have recorded Big
Bill's songs, it is fair and safe to say that for each
of them Big Bill is part of their musical DNA.
Bill came back from Europe in the--
in 1957 just around the time that Pete Seeger shot that footage
and sadly he learned that he had been diagnosed with lung cancer.
When the doctors operated they nicked his vocal chords.
But, even though he couldn't sing, he could still play at that point.
And so, it was at the opening night of the Old Town School of Folk Music
in December 1957 that Big Bill was the featured performer.
It was a big success as a consequence
of his contribution to that.
Bill died in August of 1958 and his lead pallbearer was Muddy Waters
and this was not accidental.
Several generations of blues musicians in Chicago had benefited
from Bill's mentorship and guidance.
None of them spoke more emphatically
or with a deeper sense of gratitude than Muddy.
Muddy described how it was Big Bill
who helped Muddy get his first big gig
at a prominent west side Chicago blues club when he needed
to get a foot in the door.
And what he-- Muddy who was reserved in most--
in many of his public comments said about Big Bill, "Big Bill,
that's the nicest guy I ever met in my life.
Mostly I try to be like him."
In the years after Bill's death his star waned.
And this was ironic because a set-- both of his contemporaries
and of younger players benefited from the forces
that Bill had set in motion.
"Younger white fans" quote-unquote rediscovered Skip James,
Mississippi John Hurt and they had--
and Son House and they had the opportunity to perform in places
like the Newport Folk Festival and to record.
And younger performers like Muddy and B.B. King benefited
from the exposure to new and appreciative audiences
and countless blues musicians have made, in that period
and in the years after, successful tours overseas.
But, for Bill sadly he was primarily known to a set
of serious fans of blues and folk music.
And then unexpectedly not long ago and not very far from where we are
in this room he reappeared.
On January 20, 2009, Barack Hussein Obama took the Oath of Office
as the 44th President and first African American President
of the United States.
It had been 70 years since Bill had sung to an overflow audience
at Carnegie Hall about imagining that he was
in The White House sitting in the President's chair only to wake up
and find that it was just a dream.
Almost 40-- and almost 45 years after Bill had argued strenuously
to a Dutch audience that-- of jazz fans, that it would--
it will never be a black man's world an African American had become
arguably the most powerful person on the planet.
If Bill had been alive to watch the ceremony he would almost certainly
have been delighted to be proven wrong as a prophet.
If he had continued to listen to the closing prayer delivered
by the Reverend Joseph Lowery he would probably have been even more
surprised to hear some of his own words echoed
in the Minister's benediction.
Bill would have heard a prayer for that day
when black will not be asked to get back, when brown can stick around,
when yellow will be mellow, when the red man can get ahead man
and when white will embrace what is right.
The words may not have been exactly the same
and Reverend Lowery may not have consciously quoted from Bill's song
as some of the phrases had been in use
in African American circles before Bill incorporated them into his,
"Black, Brown and White Blues."
But, 50 years after his funeral billions of people
around the globe were hearing the rhythmic cadences
and well crafted insights with which Bill had captivated music fans,
first in the United States and then far beyond its borders.
Thank you.
[ Applause ]
>> We have time for questions?
Okay. Yes sir?
>> that early British TV footage you mentioned--
>> Bob Riesman: Yes.
>> Is that available?
>> Bob Riesman: Yes it's on YouTube and it's on Google Video.
It's listed in various forms.
Sometimes it's listed as, "Lowlight and Blue Smoke."
The total footage is about 17 minutes.
Sometimes you can see pieces chopped up
and sometimes you can see the whole thing, depends on the status
of what's posted at the time.
Yes ma'am?
>> It's very interesting
because last night HBO I was watching the documentary
about the Rolling Stones 50th anniversary--
>> Bob Riesman: Right.
>> And they were making direct references to having seen that show.
And in fact their several years
of performing were strictly blues clubs.
>> Bob Riesman: Right.
>> You know, so it was-- it's nice to be able to hear
that you know people who have made it you know
and are established are giving credit to the people
who did not have that popularity.
>> Bob Riesman: Right.
And the only reason I was able to be able to interview a set
of the major figures in British and international rock and roll was
because for the ones that responded when I reached
out clearly the connection with Big Bill was something that they wanted
to make sure would be on the record.
These are very busy people, but they were-- they as I mentioned it is,
it's was both an initial connection, but it's also--
he's also an ongoing source of inspiration.
Thank you.
Yes sir?
>> I'm guessing John Hammonds recorded the evening
at Carnegie Hall?
I've never seen it.
>> Bob Riesman: Yea.
It's now out on a 3 CD set.
It was released maybe a decade or so ago on Vanguard Records.
That's where I found the recording.
But, yes that-- I don't know that every performance that--
there were two From Spiritual to Swings, Spiritual to Swing Concerts.
One was in 19-- December 38.
One was in 39.
The 3 CD set as both of them.
I don't know that it has every performance,
but it's got an awful lot of them.
Yes Tony.
>> Tony: Big Bill not only helped blues musicians
but all kinds of musicians.
Ella Jenkins recalls him taking her to the union hall
and introducing her and having her join up with union,
so that's not a segregated union.
>> Bob Riesman: Yea, right.
>> Tony: He was really helping a lot of different kinds of people.
He wasn't thinking within a box at the time.
>> Bob Riesman: Right, right, thank you.
>> Nancy: One more question.
>> Bob Riesman: One more question, anymore questions?
Actually Tony I should read what Pete Seeger said in--
which was-- echoes your comments.
"I knew Big Bill Broonzy in the 1940's
and 50's near the end of his life.
I think he was genuinely reaching
out all his life to different people."
So, and Pete was someone who performed numerous times with Bill
and saw him in many settings.
So, that's-- thank you.
Yes?
>> How self consciously did Big Bill recognize himself
as a racial activist?
>> Bob Riesman: I think what Bill-- Bill was very savvy as the late wife
of the British blues historian Paul Oliver said, "He was very knowing."
He didn't miss a thing.
And he-- when he was performing and recording songs like, "Black,
Brown and White Blues" this was a period
where Paul Robeson was running into tremendous resistance and a lot more
than that from the United States Government.
Where Josh White had been called-- had volunteered to come and talk
to the House on American Activities Committee and the fallout
from that was quite significant.
I think what Bill was mindful of was that he a fairly narrow tightrope
to walk, but I think he made sure to do it in a way which--
to use a phrase that he uses in one of stories in,
"Big Bill Blues" he was straddling, he straddling the fence.
But, he did it in a way that didn't put at risk his ability
to earn a living as musician.
So, I'm sure he was mindful of it and he also in particular said,
"He had tried to record-- to get an American recording company"
in the 1940's to record, "Black, Brown and White Blues"
because he was performing it in that period and none
of them would go near it.
So, the first time he recorded it was in France
when he was over there in 1951.
So, I think he-- when he saw opportunities he would take
advantage of them in a very mindful way.
Yes sir?
>> How much is the book?
[Laughter]
>> Bob Riesman: I have the hardcover, the paperback is cheaper
and it's out in the back.
>> Nancy: I believe its 13 dollars--
>> Bob Riesman: Okay.
>> Nancy: And that's actually a nice segue--
>> Bob Riesman: Okay.
>> Nancy: Into reminding-- people and to thank Bob Riesman--
>> Bob Riesman: Alright, okay.
>> Nancy: For coming today and giving a great lecture.
>> Bob Riesman: [Applause] Thank you Nancy.
Thanks to you all.
Thank you, thank you.
>> This has been a presentation of the Library of Congress.
Visit us at loc.gov.