>> From the Library of Congress in Washington DC.
[ background noise ]   >> Betsy Peterson: Hello everyone.
I'm Betsy Peterson, the Director of the American Folklife Center
at the Library of Congress and I want to welcome you today
to the latest presentation of our Benjamin A. Botkin lecture series--
and I should this is the first of our 2013 season.
The Botkin series is a great opportunity
for the American Folklife Center to showcase the latest research
in folklife, folklore, ethnic musicology,
oral history, and cultural heritage.
And it also allows us the opportunity
to enhance our collections through acquisition, and so for the Center
and the Library this is an important -- an important series for us.
Each lecture is videotaped and recorded and will become part
of the permanent collection of the archives.
So, I would suggest actually right now if you have cell phones turned
on to please turn them off unless you want
to be memorialized in our archive.
And later, within a few weeks this very lecture will be put
up on the website and will be available
to people all over the world.
Today I have the honor of introducing a good colleague
and friend, Diana Baird N'Diaye
or Dr. Diana Baird N'Diaye, I should say.
A distinguished folklorist and a cross-town colleague
at the Smithsonian Institution Center
for Folklife and Cultural Heritage.
For many years, Dr. N'Diaye has been the leader and director
and guiding force behind "The Will to Adorn: African American Dress
and the Aesthetics of Identity,"
which is a massive pan-institutional multi-sited research project
that has been ongoing for the last few years, and will be the basis
of her presentation today for all of us.
It will also form the basis of a major exhibition program
at the Smithsonian Folklife Festival
on the National Mall this coming summer.
So come out and brave the July heat for a fabulous program.
Dr. Diana N'Diaye is a native of Brooklyn
and Diana's training includes background in anthropology,
folklore, and visual studies.
She attended New York's Fashion Institute of Technology,
and she holds a PhD in anthropology and visual studies
from the Union Institute.
In addition to her work as a scholar she has also maintained a
distinguished career as a studio artist.
And her work as both a scholar and an artist has informed over 30 years
of field work, exhibition, programs, and publications focusing
on expressive culture in Africa and the Caribbean
and the [inaudible] in the United States.
Other areas of research include children's play and performance
in dress traditions and fashion in Oman, Mali,
Kirgizstan, Uzbekistan, and Japan.
She served as curator for numerous Smithsonian Folklife Festival
programs, including major programs on Senegal, Bermuda, and Haiti.
And, in fact, after the devastating 2010 earthquake in Haiti,
Diana led the Smithsonian's support of Haitian traditional artists
at the Folklife Festival for that year and she has served
on innumerable national and international juries as well
as advisory policy and funding panels for institutions
such as UNESCO, the NEA and the American Folklore Society.
I could probably keep going but I think I'll stop here.
We're delighted to have Diana N'Diaye with us today
and we're pleased that she is able to take time from her schedule
to join us for this Botkin lecture
so please join me in welcoming Diana.
>> [Applause]
>> Diana N'Diaye: Thank you very much.
And I really, really wanted to thank my colleagues
at the American Folklife Center.
We're sort of twins joined at the hip in some ways and Betsy Peterson,
Dr. Betsy Peterson, Nancy Groce, gosh, Cathy Kurst,
Jennifer [Cutting], Thea [Austen], Peter [Bartis].
There are so many people here and I do look out in the audience
and I see that I'm really among friends and colleagues.
Sally Van Der Water, who is the project director
for the youth access grant we have for The Will to Adorn;
Olivia Cadaval, my colleague and mentor at the Center.
So, what I thought is that today what I'd like to do is
to talk a little bit about-- do a little bit of memoir and sort
of personal journey as well as a conversation about dress
and identity and community within that.
And, in fact, most of the projects that I've worked
on over the decades have started out with a cultural autobiography
of sorts and I like to think that in a project we work a lot
with community researchers and this sort of a concentric circle,
you know, it's important to think about your own culture
and what you're doing and then you widen it a little bit, you know,
you go from yourself to your family community and then you can look
at other communities and have some point of resonance in relationship
because there are so many things that are --
that resonate obviously with other communities and that's one
of the things about that I love about Folklife.
That, you know, everyone belongs to at least, well,
many communities, not even one but many.
There's where you work, there's your family, there's your background,
your heritage, your region, and these all come together
to make you the person that you are.
So, the first thing we do when we talk about The Will to Adorn--
and I'll talk about the project a little later--
so we asked people to write a cultural autobiography
or a "sartorial autobiography,"
which means an autobiography that deals with dress.
And what we ask is things like, you know,
what stories did your family tell you about how to dress or how,
even more importantly, how not to dress.
And were there any incidents that involved,
you know, what people wore?   What sayings refer to dress?
And who are the exemplars of style in the family?
Who are the people who, you know, you know that they were going
to be dressed to the max, you know, whenever they went out?
And one researcher that is working with us remembered
that her dad had a pair of shoes for every occasion.
So it's not only women.
People think about "the will to adorn," a lot of times they think
about women as the exemplars of style but, you know,
you guys are also very much exemplars of style.
And one researcher remembered that, you know, her father had
so many suits and many colors.
And but then my own family, and within many families
of African descent, a lot of the stories and a lot
of the sayings also had to do with the realities of being a person
of African descent in America.
And it was also an issue of survival.
It had to do with the "double conscience" the W.E.B DeBois talked
about that because we're people of color we are assumed
to be less based on that skin color and appearance took on,
and still takes, on a very important role as a symbol
and an expression of liberation.
And there's the whole thing between, you know, we self-identify,
we fashion ourselves but we also are identified and profiled.
You know, so that whole self-representation thing is
really important.
In fact there were sumptuary laws passed during slavery
and the slave -- the Africans couldn't dress better
than the folk who enslaved them.
And I remember -- how many people have seen "Django Unchained"?
Okay, so you know that there's that scene
where when Django is liberated the first thing he goes
and he gets this bright blue suit, you know,
and he takes it off afterwards but the whole thing is hey, this is,
you know, I can wear what I want to.   And here I am!
So dressing well in African-American culture has always been a measure
of freedom and aspiration, but also an expressive form.
And one in which we have invested time and money,
and Zora Neal Hurston called "The Will
to Adorn" the most important expression of Negro culture.
And she was talking about words, but I think it also went
for her own dress as well as dress.
So I'm going to start going through these slides.
Okay. When I was born, and I was born in New York City
and my parents were actually relatively recent immigrants
from the Caribbean.
My dad was from Barbados and my mom was from Guyana.
And one of the things that I heard stories about was the fact
that my dad, who was a student at the time, was also working
to work his way through college as an orderly
in Columbia Presbyterian Hospital.
And he talked about the importance of wearing a suit.
He may have just had one or two suits but he always wore a suit
and a bowtie and it had as much to do with sort of the aspirational,
you know, as well as the fact of making sure that when he went
out he was looked at as respected and it was,
for him, it was protection.
So when he was talking to his grandson, my son, you know,
who is wearing his jeans and so on and you know, he was talking
about the fact that, well, you know, you've got to dress in a certain way
because it's your protection.
My mom actually came from Georgetown, Guyana,
and in Georgetown she came to the United States to learn hairdressing
and cosmetology-- actually to take back to Guyana,
so she was really an incredible exemplar herself.
She was my first sort of model for how you --
how you're supposed to dress.
But very soon after I was born I went to --
I ended up with my grandmother in Bermuda,
and I mean there's a tradition, I think within the African world
about the parents are working in the city and the children go back to be
with the grandmother, whether it be down South or you know,
in the islands, and so on.   And so I was with my grandmother.
And so this is a picture, I'm about, maybe two years old, a little less
and I want you to look at that little --
at my hand, I'm the little one over there--
and there is a bangle and it's a gold bangle
and every self-respecting young person of Caribbean descent here
from Trinidad and Guyana had a bangle.
And the bangle became when we came over, a symbol of that identity
but it was also something, you know,
it has some really interesting history.
This bangle was made in my grandfather's --
by an apprentice to my grandfather.
My grandfather had died by the time I was born.
But it actually came from an Indian-- East Indian tradition,
and in Trinidad and Guyana there was a very large Indian --
there is a very large, Indian population and also a lot
of really complex relationships.
But this in New York City was still a symbol of being Caribbean.
That, and when I was growing up, it was having at least one gold tooth.
So, you know, it became a really important symbol
of a community that I belonged to.
This is actually my mom with her parents-- and my grandfather,
Colin Alexander Young was also known as "Tommy the Jeweler."
And so in the Guyana of the 1920s and 1930s there was a growing sort
of administrative colonial class and there were a lot
of obviously inequities and so on in the society.
But there was also-- people dressed and people would save up their money
to buy gold and go to the gold --
my grandfather would go in the gold fields as far as Surinam
and French Guyana and so many people have come home with that --
with symbols of being Guyanese, with that yellow gold
and filigree jewelry and so on.
So getting through that, so I've been through many transformations
and I'm sure you've all done that.
You know, when was the first time that you started dressing
for yourself rather than dressing for your family
and what were the kind of messages that you got?
So when the left is from Bermuda and the right -- I was --
I started out in design so that was during the 1970s; and the right --
when I was a young woman who, you know, being just recently married
into a Muslin family; and with some family in Brooklyn,
that was another photograph.
And then -- I'm just going to go through here--
and then some of my early research was in Senegal,
where dressing is very much a fine art.
And people pay so much attention to detail
and for me it was really a transformative experience
because it taught me a lot about some of the roots
in the African world of some of the aesthetics of dress.
You know, my project -- the project is called "the aesthetics of dress."
And even in very small villages, where there was not a lot
of material resources, people also paid so much attention
to making sure that their hair was braided, that you wouldn't go
out of the house even to the market place without being dressed well.
And later on -- this is me
with my husband's nieces and aunts and so on.
And later on I remember at the festival,
the Folklife Festival we did a program called African Immigrant
Community Culture, and I was looking
at our African immigrants make a home in a new place
and I was wearing this same outfit, which has gone through a lot.
which had been worn quite a bit, and I -- you know, it's interesting,
some of the folks, who I knew
from outside the Senegalese community came over and said, oh,
that's a really great dress and it looks really dressed up.
The Senegalese came over to me, the Senegalese women came over and said,
"You know, sister, if you don't have a lot of clothes..."
[ Laughter ]
"we can help you out, we can hook you up."
So you know, the difference in the kind of attention
to detail was really important.
And so recently, you know, I've gone back a lot, this is in 2006;
and this is the -- my husband was born
in a small village called En Dela Sem [phoentic]
in the mid-section of Senegal.
And this is on a trip back and I hope
that I got a little bit of the lesson here.
But again, the importance of dresses is really important so, you know,
as I said, as folklorist
and anthropologist Zora Neal Hurston observed the will
to adorn, it still vibrant.
She wrote about that, she wrote about how embellishment
of dress was really so important and not only for survival but just
as an expressive art form.
And so its not just personal statements of style,
it really is part and this is what we've learned more and more
through our research-- we've looked at a lot of diverse communities
but the constant is how important dress and style is.
You know, whether you're wearing a hajab,
whether you're wearing a galie [phonetic],
whether you're wearing a church hat, whether you're wearing a,
you know, locks or hip hop.   You know, people study dress.
And dress becomes a visual vocabulary so that it's an avenue
of mastering and people have done a lot of work so far
on African American music, on dance, but not as much on this area.
And what does dress convey?
Status and entitlement and the aspiration to the middle class,
as we talked about before, ethnicity and entitlement.
Affiliation and the statement of dress being
such an important statement-- and of course cool!
And I think this picture is very -- I mean it's so significant in terms
of the placement-- and I was saying wow, that could have been, you know,
that same stance really could have been Denzel,
it could have been Malcolm, you know, I mean it's really interesting
that this would be the statement of cool.
And I want to come back to our President in a little while
because I think that there's a conversation that I want
to talk about in the end.
But we talk about the exemplar of dress but we also talk
about "the artisans of style."
Those people who support the communities of style
and when we talk about the artisans of style we're talking
about the hair stylist, the lock-itians, the braiders,
the tailors, the people who had clothing stores
in African-American communities and African-American neighborhoods
when you couldn't go to Woody's or, you know, to try on stuff.
And Jamuwa Moja, whom many of you know, who is a Washington master
of the arts is part of our project-- a very important part of our project
as a cultural practitioner.
And she is an artist as well, and a dress artist as well.
And so she, I think, exemplifies what we're talking
about when we're talking about artisans
of style or artists of style.
But we also have artists from different communities.
Veronica Abu is from Ghana and she works with African fabrics,
fabrics that -- and she designs and sews for her own communities--
she also has a very strong practice.
Especially with Afro-centric weddings;
where people within the African-American community,
who may not be wearing African dress every day,
want to reflect heritage in what they wear.
Vanilla Bean, many people knew Vanilla Bean as a milliner
in the Washington DC area, and again, the millinery shops--
Someone yesterday-Francine!-we were having a conversation actually
about women saving up their pennies to buy Mr. --
what was the name of the place?   Mr. John, was it you?
Oh, no, it wasn't you, I'm sorry!
I was talking with another colleague actually, who had worked
in a department store that had Mr. John Hats and she said that,
you know, people would be putting their dollars together,
and they would be women within the African-American community would
come in just around Easter time and then buy out the Mr. John Hats.
And it was such an important and powerful symbol of community,
and it's been reflected at the Festival.
This is hair braider, many of you may know if you're Washingtonians,
Shabu, doing hair that at the Folklife Festival in 1975.
The barbershop-- this is Denny Moe.
Denny Moe is a barber in New York City, who has been documented by one
of our community partners, Mind Builders Association,
which is a folk cultural research internship program
for teenagers, for highschoolers.
And for about two years they've been working -- three years--
they've been working with us to photograph and interview people
within their communities who are these artisans of style.
And Denny Moe is known as "barber to the stars."
He's cut Snoop Dog's hair, and he's cut --
you know, he's cut a range of people,
but he's still is very much a community barber.
And so you go in there and their having conversations--
and there is even a video!
If you look for Denny Moe on the internet you'll see
that there's even a video about-- that he's made with his staff.
And one of the arenas for the presentation --
okay, one of the arenas for the presentation
of dress is the hair shows.
And the African-American entrepreneurship has been
so important in terms of this arena.   Barbershops, beauty parlors--
and it's the barbers and the beauty shop owners that have often,
along with the churches, been the folks
who have supported Civil Rights, who have supported community organizing
at a grass roots level and because their clientele are folks
from the African-American community.
So there is a -- I'm going to go through here
and there's a continuity of tradition that, you know,
you see in terms of Africanisms all over the world.
This is a picture I took in Surinam with folks
who were Maroon communities, but all over you see these same skills
that have been retained through the experience --
through slavery, but also come back to us
through new African diasporan folks.
And Asduaj [phonetic] is one of the first women to open
up a braiding salon in Washington DC after Corn Rows and Company.
Corn Rows and Company was actually one of the first.
But then Asduaj [phonetic] was one of the first,
I should say African immigrant women to open up in the community.
So, you know, when we're looking at the project we're looking
at the diversity within the African-American community as well
as the overall aesthetics.
And how clothing and how dress defines and, you know,
African-American fraternities
and sororities definitely self-define and bond through dress.
And Elizabeth Keckley we talked
about the importance in the larger sphere.
She was a community organizer.   She was a -- within her community,
in addition to being Mary Todd Lincoln's dress maker,
she already had a very strong practice.
And Madam C.J. Walker, Rosa Parks -- some of the folks who were involved
in the industry, but also were important for this.
So "the body arts" include the design and construction of clothing
and the jewelry, cosmetics and other arts.
And -- I'm going to go through this, here.
So The Will to Adorn, as Betsy Peterson mentioned,
is a multi-year project where we're looking at actually the diversity
of the African-American identities as communicated
through cultural aesthetics, And, you know, we've talked a lot
about the commonalities but on a very important conversation
that needs to take place, I think, you know,
just as the United States is defined, is looking at redefining
who we all are as Americans in terms of the new demographics,
there's also a new demographics
within the African-American population,
within the African-American community.
Or not so new, but the importance
of recognizing this new demographic is important.
It played a real important part in the Election,
you know, if you remember.
There was all the questions, you know, what is it,
who is it to be African-American?
And, you know, is it someone who is dad is from Kenya?
You know, and whose mom is from Kansas?
Is it someone who has come over, you know?
Who survived slavery in America?   Is it all of these?
All of the communities within the African-American larger population
help to self-define through many things, but dress is one thing
and so what we want to do -- I'm going to go through this,
we have to recognize that there's not one authentic African-American
aesthetic, but many.
And that we need to look at this in a global thing.
We need to look at communities of style.
We need to look at communities of artisanship, artisans of style.
And the relationship between style and the changes of style
in the African-American community.
And I have the -- from the Afro, as one of the 1970s to "the big chop."
And for the "big chop" many younger African-Americans have looked
at going away from the practice of straightening hair and going
to wearing hair naturally.
And I think that it's a combination of consciousness,
but in a little different way from in the 1970s.
It's also, I think, bringing together the environmental
and heath consciousness in terms of why do you want
to put chemicals in your hair?
How can we express our identity as African-Americans
by wearing our hair naturally?
So the project is a multi-partnered collaborative project.
We're working with several researchers in seven major cities
and the US Virgin Islands.
The research was completed by students and community members.
And social media and video and photography
and oral history are really a very important part of the project.
So these students here are at Yard Fest in Howard University,
but we've done projects with Spellman, we had courses
at Bowie State, and we have been working
to create a research protocol that works the way that FaceBook works.
So that researchers are connected on line and just
as you can upload blogs, you can upload photographs,
and so on onto FaceBook, you can do the same thing with social media.
So we've had a wonderful set of conversations online.
And finally we're going to be doing a Folklife program that's going
to bring some of this together.
And these are some of the themes that we have.
We'll have performances and exhibitions this summer
on the Folklife, at the Smithsonian Folklife Festival,
including Rock the Runway--
where we'll not only have fashion shows and, you know,
the tradition of African-American fashion shows,
which I like to see as visual concerts.
And every -- there are, you know, if they're church concerts,
there are church fashion shows, there are fashion shows
that are put together by youth, but there is also the whole tradition
of styling and profiling and "rocking the runway".
So we wanted to do that.
Explorations of cultural markets of immigrant communities.
The narrative tent-- which we want to style as beauty parlor
and a barber shop-- will really give us a chance to have talks
about the issues around African-American dress.
And as they are sites of discussion, we will have demonstration tents;
design studios dealing with the artisans.
And also bringing folks to talk about how they started,
how they learned, who they mentored-- the actual, you know,
where their aesthetic is coming from.
And usually at the Folklife Festival we have a food raise area.
Now there is a whole thing-- and if you've been on line and looked
at this-- there are so many people who are creating their own products
in a blender or for hair, for skin, and so we're hoping to do that.
And the beauty schools are so important
within the African-American community so The Will
to Adorn project is ongoing even after the Festival is over.
And we will have a research tent this summer
where we will bring a lot
of the young people we've been working worth together to --
so you can come to the Festival to record your own oral history,
your own sartorial autobiography.
And it'll be a home; we'll hope to do some digital story telling
and really participate in just these discussions.
And our sponsors: we're working with the new African-American museum,
the Smithsonian Museum of African American History and Culture.
We've had really wonderful function in the craft research funds
from Smithsonian Institution.
Consortium funds-we're part of a larger consortium.
And most recently we just received a grant for youth access.
So we will be working with our -- one of -- two of our major partners.
Mind Builders and with McLaren High School in Atlanta.
Their videography program to really train trainers in how
to take this project further with young people
so that we're really teaching people --
young folks in these eight cities the tools for folklife
and folklore research, so that they can continue the process,
create their own exhibitions, create their own local projects.
And so that's it.
And I hope we have a little time for questions.
But I really am so pleased to see all of you.
I feel like, you know, this is a conversation
and already in community.   So thank you very much.
[Applause.] [Pause]
>> Diana N'Diaye: So questions, comments?
Yes?
>> Female audience member: Okay, what I wanted to mention and ask
because I saw a lot about the hair
and that's a really big thing in our community.
Good hair, bad hair, no hair.   Locks. Now you see a lot
of the female celebrities have blond hair in our community.
And we did a weaving, a group of eight sisters did kind
of a support group of women that have locks
for that 10 or 15 or 20 years.
And we've got a lot of pictures and we have one picture
that was a post -- was going to be a poster--
so I'd like to be able to give that to you at some point.
>> Diana N'Diaye: Oh, that's fabulous!
In fact we would welcome your -- that is, but also--
your participation in the project.
We do have a research site if folks are interested,
and are interested or, you know, or have a project like yours
to join our research site and so I think that would be great.
Thank you so much.
>> Same female audience member: But I also wanted to just mention that,
you know, this discussion now is that back
up again around "good hair."
And young people on the bus saying "he's got good hair"
or "she's got good hair," and it just seems so sad
that I thought we went -- we got away from that and we're back to it.
>> Diana N'Diaye: Yeah.
Well, the whole thing about "good hair" was
that at one point it was assumed that hair that was more European
in looking, straightened hair and so on was good hair.
And hair like mine was "bad hair."
And I think it was best -- it was in the context of again,
being defined from outside the community.
But also I think that it's interesting
because it's become a real debate
because there is also "the big chop."
Which is the movement among young people
to cut off the straitened hair and become natural.
But I also want to mention, and I thought that in addition to hair,
a colleague and both in the project and at the Smithsonian said well,
you know, there's not only hair but there are many in our communities
who choose to cover hair.
So it's not the -- the conversation is not only about hair,
but also about how important it is to -- about "head," you know,
and how important it is to --
the self-presentation as a whole and what that means.
Yes?
>> Female audience member: I'm interested
to know a most interesting insight that you had;
the most surprising insight that you had on the project.
>> Diana N'Diaye: That's a great question.
Well, you know, it's interesting because, you know, I think it was
about that conversation about the new demographics and the diversity
within the African-American -- the internal diversity and the need
to have conversation about that and have those conversations
about dress lead to other important conversations.
So that, I think, would be one of the most things.
But also the complexity: you know, I mean there's billions and billions
of dollars spent within the African-American community
so it's a major, you know, dress, is major in terms of economics
and in terms of entrepreneurship
within the African American community.
So and there are other things: I mean when the --
it was interesting when the whole debate that happened
with the tragedy with Trayvon Martin.
There was that whole thing where Geraldo Rivera got online and said,
"Well, if he wasn't wearing a hoodie!"
Well, you know, the thing is that it's not necessarily -- it's --
obviously it's not necessarily about wearing a hoodie;
it's not going to solve the issue.
But that whole debate about, you know, what's appropriate dress
and what's self-expression?
Oh, one other thing was really interesting:
the role of dress as protection.
Another colleague interviewed a young man,
he was wearing saggy pants, he was wearing locks, he was, and he was --
she asked him, you know, what's the - "Why do you dress the way you do?"
And he was a father, he was interesting, a young father --
and he said, "I dress this way because it's a form of protection.
You know, when I'm in my community, if I'm going dressing, you know,
some other way, you know, I'm going to get beat up or you know,
my son is going to get beat.
So, you know, I have a son to support."
So it's really interesting.   That was very surprising.
Also the "dandy movement."   That is an incredible movement.
You know, there's a whole new movement of young men,
mostly college educated, who are creating --
who are really into dress.   Andre 2000 and gosh, who is it now?
There's a movement in hip hop now towards wearing suits
and wearing you know, really, really stylish clothing
that W.E.B. Dubois would have really been proud of, you know,
because he was also and exemplar of style.
But the whole collegiate dress, that's actually something
that I think is going past the hip hop.
Yeah?
>> Female audience member: What was the name of that movement?
Dandy?
>> Diana N'Diaye: Dandy, yeah, that African-American dandies.
Oh, sorry.   African-American dandies.
And there's actually a Dandy Day;
there was an exhibition that's been traveling around the country curated
by a brilliant young scholar, Shantrell Lewis,
where she has been working with photographers
to document these young men who are really into sartorial splendor.
And there was a conference in Paris that I just came back
from on black portraiture, where they talked a lot about this
and it's really sort of a contrast to the Hip Hop movement that --
you know, the white T shirts and the saggy pants.
So it's really, really interesting.   Yes?
>> Brock Thompson: Well, I was thinking about that,
and also watching your presentation
about the documentary "Paris is Burning."
In that vein-- the urban gay male perspective in dress.
>> Diana N'Diaye: Actually that's really important and we're hoping
to have some of the founders of the House of Labeija at the Festival.
And to do "vogueing"; because, again,
the other thing is the African-American style has
influenced, has had a global influence,
and "vogueing" has influenced "runway."
You know, it's been influenced by, but it's also influenced "runway."
There's also gender -- yeah, there is a lot
of gender orientation becomes really a part of it and looking at the cues
within the African-American community
in terms of the LGBT movement.
There are all sorts of sartorial cues and issues that come up there.
And we're hoping to get into some
of these discussions this summer, which is very exciting.
Yeah, hi, back there - Eve?
>> Female audience member (Eve): Hi, good to see you.
Will there be some discussion
about like the changes psychological impact of-well, I'm thinking about,
you know, hair, in particular locks --
used to be associated with Rastas.
They -- yeah, now they're associated with thugs.
So I had a friend who came from Jamaica
who has very long locks was not able to catch a cab.
And he said, "What's the matter?"
And I said, "Not do they not pick up black people,
but you know, you've got locks."   You know, that symbolizes --
I don't know if it extends beyond this city--
that that's associated now with thug-life;
but also that locks has taken off
as like the new canvas of hair and expression.
>> Diana N'Diaye: That's right.   >> Female audience member (Eve):
And the lockticans are doing some incredible things with locks where,
you know, the purist used to always be like, you just wear them--
you don't curl them up, wrap them up, or whatever.
Now they're going all over the place.
They're pink and blue and that really very accepted.
Also, head wraps with -- I remember people used to always tell me --
don't wear head wrap to work because of what it symbolizes, you know,
people will think you're too cultural or something.
>> [Laughter]   >> Diana N'Diaye: Yeah, yeah.
>> Female audience member (Eve): And you know, that kind of just fell
by the wayside and now it's kind of coming back.
Because I'm starting to hear again, "don't wrap your head."
>> Diana N'Diaye: Interesting.   >> Female audience member (Eve):
So it's interesting how the psychology changed.
At one point, if you had locks you were supposed to wrap your head.
Now it's like, don't wrap your head even
if you have locks or whatever else.
You know, you shouldn't wrap your head and that's considered
to be kind of like, you know, waning in style or something?
>> Diana N'Diaye: Yeah.
It's interesting because there's all these cross currents.
And I don't know if you know that, well, if you know --
well, [inaudible] when I first considered getting locks, my mom,
from the West Indies said, "Well, you don't want to be associated --
I will not take you to Guyana because I don't want you
to be associated with them Rasta people, you know?"
But you now, now it's really interesting because they --
I have a relative who is -- was in the Parliament of Bermuda.
Bermuda, really conservative place!   And he wore locks in Parliament.
And it's was interesting because it was in a place
where they still wear wigs.
And he had white hair so you know, it just [inaudible] but you know,
and in the Caribbean right now you see
that a lot more women are either, in high places,
are either wear their hair very short
of wearing their hair in locks.
In fact in the university community, it's very popular.
I think - and, as you say, lockticans,
I didn't know that there was a word call lockticans, you know,
a few years ago but now it's a major thing.
And hair shows: like the Brawner Brothers Hair Show,
the Golden Scissors Awards-- all these things--
they have sections where it's about locks.
They are natural hair shows.
So we're hoping to have a natural hair show and a sort
of what I'm calling a "sculptural hair show" at the Festival.
Yes?
>> Female audience member (Francine): Tatooing?
Are you considering that...?
>> Diana N'Diaye: Yeah, you know, were looking at tattooing and one
of the things, in our class Harold Anderson, who is a folklorist
who worked with us for a long time and taught at Bowie State.
We had a class called The Will to Adorn.
And he said one of the most interesting things for him is
that someone who is described as someone who didn't have a tattoo
and he said, "Boy, what a change."   So, definitely.
When we did the program last year, Olivia Cadaval was the curator
for a program on Anacostia.
And there was a tattoo artist and we actually went
to the studio and did an interview.
And it was really interesting - actually,
in our interviews there was a skater, he was in Atlanta,
and he had tattooed on the inside on his mouth and it was --
but it was related, he said, to speaking truth.
So he had a whole philosophy around the tattoos that he had.
So, you know, it's a very important symbol of identity
for so many young people.   Yes?
>> Female audience member: Just a comment
about what you were talking about..
My granddaughter goes to a HBC [Historically Black College]
and a lot of the HBC colleges require
that the students are dressed - and keep it down -
because when the do certain presentation in certain classes.
So there's a true movement, definitely going back
to what movements I came up,
that you dress a certain way [for?] certain events that you go to.
So I think that the college students really are picking up on that.
It's a movement that's almost like a requirement at some,
and number of the HBCs on how you dress.
7   >> Diana N'Diaye: Yeah.
actually there's a long tradition, long tradition.
We did a course on Will to Adorn at Spellman --
and, of course, near to Morehouse.
And it was really, really interesting.
Spellman, you know, you had to wear white gloves and you had
to wear pearls and you know.
As young women at a HBCU-- historically black college
and university -- and so that was really, really important.
But what's happening now is that even if you go on a regular day,
Spellman woman may be wearing jeans, but they are going
to be wearing the most put together jeans.
You know, I mean, it was incredible.
You look, you know, on the Spellman campus I felt
like I was in a fashion shoot.
You know, but it's to that aesthetic even though it's very different
than it was before, is there.
There's also the fact that, you know, again,
there's the Afro-centric aesthetic.
We interviewed Dr. Janetta Beck Cole, who is president of Spellman
and [inaudible] who is now we're very pleased to know to have her
as Director of the African Art Museum.
And she has a very strong --
you know, she is one of our main exemplars of style--
but within an African context.
You know, her, some of her -- people who--
from who she collects dress are Denali African Couture who --
and Demali is an incredible designer who works in Mali and Nigeria
with textile artists, and with sewers who are here
to create really exceptional clothing,
but with an African aesthetic.
And then you get someone like Beulah Cooley, who is in Chicago,
who is creating with sort of what when we're saying,
definitely Western dress who is in the ebony fashion sphere.
But also who creates for the ladies of the church.
So she will create something that's matching.
Matching head, matching hat, matching shoes, and matching suit.
And it's definitely, again, the attention to detail in dress;
even though it's a different aesthetic.
Yes?
>> Male audience member: Do you want to expound a little bit more
on our President and his influence on culture?
>> Diana N'Diaye: Oh, oh, wow.   That's a biggie!
[ Laughter ]   Well, you know, the thing
that I think is really significant there is that, you know,
I go back to the conversation about diversity
and the conversation about aesthetic.
I mean, he is a real cool put together brother.
You know, I mean he is but and I think that he is in his own way,
although you know, he's talked about -- Michelle is often the --
Michelle Obama is often the person who is focused on in terms
of her style and she has great style.
But what I think that is really amazing in terms of dress is
that he projects, not only how, not only the clothing,
but how you wear the clothing.
You know. And I think that it's a real, it --
for me it's really interesting because there was a debate,
you know, when at one point when he was about,
when he was being elected,
about whether he is really African-American
and what that means.
You know, well, the thing is that in terms of affect, in terms of dress,
in terms of how he dresses, I mean, that's very much
within an African-American Chicagoan cannon.
And I think that -- I mean I think it's natural but I think it's also
that it's something that --
I don't think he's putting it on, obviously, you know.
But I think that it also projects a very important image
within the nation as a whole.
I mean, I could go on for another five minutes but...Yes?
>> Female audience member: You speak of the African culture,
but I'm from the Southern side of it.
And Indian culture is a lot of where I'm from ..
>> Diana N'Diaye: Glad you mentioned that.
>> Same female audience member: [Inaudible] and so that I lot
of what you see within our culture, with our sect, anyway,
has a lot to do with the Indian side.
But there still are African tendencies, and they are -
and with us being military, we move around a lot.
And my daughter has noticed it a lot - especially my 14 year old -
and she has really picked up on the culture here.
And it seems to fit into where she is.
But then she's also Italian,
so her grandmother brought in the Italian thing.
So I guess my biggest question is:
how I make sure she is seeing everything and not just
because of her skin tone, because she's bright, she has,
as we would say, "good hair."
But it's still African-American hair; there's no way around it.
I just need her to make sure she sticks within her boundaries -
or she can have any boundaries she wants, as far as I care,
but I just need her to know that she can go
to the Southern side and be happy.
Because, as I said the Indian thing is there.
I'm glad I attended this because I really hadn't intended,
but I learned different places I can take her but I need her to see
that being black, being African-American, excuse me,
is not just because you happen to be black.
>> Diana N'Diaye: Yeah, yeah.   I think that is really important.
I'm so glad that you brought that up and especially also the, you know,
folks who identify as African and Native American
and that's a really important thing.
I mean many of us have joint heritages.
And whether it be sort of European and African or Asian and African
or a combination of all of those; and you know, again,
it goes back to the thing that there are many ways to be African-American
and it's about culture, it's not about biology.
It's not only about biology, you know, it's really --
or even where you come from.
Again, it gets back to the question--
and this has been really contentious--
when I was growing up I remember, and this is not the dress
but with clothing, but with food.
I went to college during the 1968 to 1972 era.
And I remember at the time when people were talking
about who is black, who is an Oreo, who is --
and folks would talk about things like, well, you know,
black people eat chittlins and collard greens and grits.
I grew up in a community, I grew up in a family, where we came home
and we had a pepper pot, we had pepper pot on the stove
which is made with something -- it's from Guyana, we ate curry
and roti, you know, peas and rice.   But I didn't know what a grit was.
And I certainly didn't know what chittlins were.
But it was part of that searching for community and it pointed
to the importance of these symbols; but it also, you know,
and it was important for the era
that we identify ourselves culturally as well.
But I think that the issue for the 21st century is looking
at within the United States is looking at the demographics
and the wider sphere of what it is to be black,
what it is to be African-American.
So I think that that is the thing that --
you know, and coming from the South, you know,
there are regional differences.
We, you know, we went to New Orleans,
we went to Chicago, New York.
Each of -- there are regional styles, too.
And there all part of what this community --
or what the larger community is.   >> Nancy Groce: One more question?
>> Diana N'Diaye: Yeah.   Okay, one more question.
Eve, you asked the question already so I just want
to make sure that there's...   >> Audience member: [Inaudible]
>> Diana N'Diaye: Okay and then you ask the question, too.
Well, I'm sorry, let me get Eve because she asked first.
>> Female audience member (Eve): I wanted to get your opinion
on something that I observed and you know, you can tell me if I'm wrong.
But, although people of African descent are not the only ones
who do it, there seems to be a propensity of people
of African descent to wear pattern on pattern clothes.
Is this something that you have observed?
Because I see it in Africa.
I know my grandmother used to wear plaid pants and a polka dot shirt.
She was Southern, from Alabama,
and didn't have any relation to African culture.
And I find myself doing it, just not because my grandmother did it,
or not because-- it seems
to be something that's kind of like ingrained?
>> Diana N'Diaye: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Well, you know, now that actually I've been looking
at that since high school.
And it's really interesting because people do it a lot also
in the Caribbean and all over the African world.
And it's interesting because now, if you look at Paris and Milan
and all this for 2013, all
of a sudden everybody is like pattern on pattern.
But I do think that it is very much part of African --
you know, one of the sort of continuities of African world,
African aesthetic kind of things.   And I connected to music.
I mean I connected to music in an interesting way.
Just as we have poly-rhythms in drumming and so on,
I think there are poly rhythms, visual poly-rhythms in dress.
And I think that, you know, there are a lot of metaphors,
a lot of places where music and dress have sort
of parallel things going on; parallel aesthetics.
And you know, there are a lot of differences, I'm not saying
that they are direct continuities but there is an aesthetic there.
So I'm glad you brought that up.   Okay, thank you.
>> [ Applause. ]
>> This has been a presentation of the Library of Congress.