>> From the Library of Congress in Washington, DC.
>> Well, good afternoon everyone.
I'm Guy Laramee from The Center for The Book
which is co-sponsoring our program today.
The Center for The Book, for those of you unfamiliar with us,
is a section of the library that promotes books, reading, library,
and literacy, and we do this here in Washington,
and we do it on a nationwide basis because we have a state center
for the book in every state, and the District of Columbia.
And we even have our most recent state center for the book which is
in the U.S. Virgin Islands.
And we also have a partnership with more than 80
like minded organizations that also promote literacy like we do.
And one of the things at The Center
for The Book does is we play an important role
in the National Book Festival.
We're the office that invites the authors
and organizes the authors programs and we've done
that since the beginning of 2001, and I urge you all to come
to this year's National Book Festival which is September 21
and 22 on the National Mall.
We'll have more than 100 authors there and if you go to our website
at loc.gov/bookfest, you can see all the authors
who are coming this year.
Before we get started, I just need to ask
if you could please turn off all your electronic devices and I need
to tell you that we will be recording today's event
for later web casting so if you ask a question you will probably become
part of our web cast today.
And speaking of our web cast, they're all available online
so if there are any author events we've had in the past that you'd
like to see, you can see them at re.gov.
We have more than 200 available on that site.
I want to also let you know that the book today
that we'll be discussing is for sale at the end of the program
and the author will also be signing his book today.
We are often asked by authors and others how we determine
which books we will feature in our series
and really the most important decision and criterion is
that the book be based on research done here
at the Library of Congress.
And today's book is on Robert Todd Lincoln whose papers are
in our Manuscript Division and I want
to thank the Manuscript Division for bringing the program to us today.
The Division of Civil
and Reconstruction Specialist is Michelle Kroll
who will introduce our author.
Michelle has a B.A. in history from the University of California
at Riverside and an M.A and Ph.D. in history from the University
of California at Berkeley.
She's the author of several articles and books on topics relating
to the Civil War, as well as Quantico, Virginia
and the World War II Memorial here in Washington.
She has worked as a Library Assistant at the Historical Society
of Washington and an Assistant Professor
at Northern Virginia Community College, and as a Research Assistant
for historian Doris Kearns Goodwin.
And I think the neatest thing about Michelle that you would
like to know is that she is in the credits for the film Lincoln
as a historical consultant.
So please welcome Michelle Kroll.
[ Applause ]
>> Welcome to the Library of Congress
and thank you for coming today.
If you ask the man on the street to identify Robert Todd Lincoln,
he might be able to tell you that he was Abraham Lincoln's son
and was left by his father in the recent Spielberg movie Lincoln,
which Jason will tell you that didn't actually happen.
Everything in film is wrong [laughs].
I'm [inaudible].
The slightly better informed might know that he had his mother,
Mary Todd Lincoln, committed to a mental institution in 1875.
Only the really informed might be able to offer
that Robert Lincoln was a successful Chicago attorney,
served as Secretary of War, was the American Minister to Great Britain,
or the President of the Pullman Palace Car Company.
The order of those responses gives you an idea
of why Jason Emerson's recent biography
of Robert Lincoln is titled Giant in the Shadows.
Very accomplished in his own right, Robert Lincoln also lived his life
in the shadow of his famous parents.
Here at the Library of Congress, we also know Robert Lincoln
and his family as generous donors of many priceless manuscripts
and three-dimensional objects.
Robert's daughter, Mary Isham, donated the contents
of Abraham Lincoln's pockets on the night he was assassinated
at Ford's Theatre some of which are currently exhibited in honor
of the Civil War in America Exhibit over in the Jefferson Building.
And the Manuscript Division would not have one
of the most significant collections of Abraham Lincoln papers
in the world had Robert Lincoln not agreed to donate his papers in 1919.
Yet even the Lincoln manuscripts we value
so highly reinforce the difficulty
for Robert Lincoln to be his own man.
At the public opening of the Abraham Lincoln papers on July 26, 1947,
just 66 years next week, Norman Frost,
Robert Lincoln's former secretary and attorney explained
that there was a man who longed to be an individual,
but who at the same time had a complete
and self-sacrificing devotion to his famous father.
He wanted to be known for himself alone, but that wasn't possible.
The papers never permitted that.
However, with his new book on Robert Lincoln Giant in the Shadows
which you've seen Guy hold up and here it is,
The Life of Robert T. Lincoln,
historian Jason Emerson brings Robert's life out of the shadows
and into his own spotlight.
Jason is well qualified to present another member of the Lincoln family
in a new way having previously written or edited books
on Abraham Lincoln's relationship with science and technology
and Lincoln, the inventor, and Mary Lincoln's famous insanity case
in the Madness of Mary Lincoln.
Incidentally, Jason discovered letters
that Mary Lincoln wrote during her insanity episode among the papers
of Robert Lincoln's other secretary
and successfully urged Frederick Towers, his heirs, to donate them
to the Library of Congress which they did.
So our thanks to Jason for this important acquisition
to the Manuscript Division.
Jason is also the author of numerous articles relating to Lincoln studies
and can be found on television and online providing insights
on the Lincolns in his many interviews and public presentations,
including those for the History Channel
and CNBC's Treasure Detectives.
His next book will be a compilation
of Mary Todd Lincoln's unpublished letters which updates a 1972 Edition
by Justin Turner and Linda Levitt Turner.
But today is all about Robert Todd Lincoln so please join me
in welcoming Jason Emerson to discuss the Giant in the Shadows.
[ Applause ]
>> Jason Emerson: Thank you very much.
I sound pretty cool when you say it like that.
I will issue a caveat right now.
My name is not in the credits
for the Lincoln movie so I don't like it.
No, I'm just kidding [laughs].
No, it's a great movie.
Everything about Robert in it is wrong, but I'll explain that later.
Well, thank you so much and thank you all for coming especially,
on this wonderfully roastingly hot day.
I'm from upstate New York so this is really killing me.
Well, I think most people who know much of anything
about Abraham Lincoln which is many people.
They know that he is one of the most written people in world history.
The last I had heard he was number three.
Number one was Jesus Christ, number two Napoleon
which I actually was surprised by, and number three is Lincoln.
Now anyone who's read anything about Lincoln, you may know the reputation
of his oldest son Robert.
Robert stood apart from his family.
He was more Todd than Lincoln.
He was embarrassed by and scornful of his father.
He hated his mother.
He knew little about his father's presidency.
He cared even less.
He had his mother committed to an insane asylum
out of greed and embarrassment.
He corrupted his father's legacy.
He destroyed papers.
He was a cold, heartless, avaricious,
arrogant aristocratic man who despised those people
that he considered to be beneath him.
This is the typical understanding and belief of Robert Lincoln
and it's in just about any book you find.
That's how he is portrayed and it is certainly not flattering.
It's also not true.
Don't worry because a lot of people seem concerned and say "Well,
why did you write about him."
[Laughter] Robert was actually none of these things.
He was in my opinion a great man who inherited many
of his father's best traits and he very faithfully
and heroically preserved his father's legacy
for more than half a century.
But Robert not only protected his father's history,
but he made his own history separate from his parents that is worthy
of its own study, of course, I think so.
So I actually spent -- my new book -- I spent 10 years working on this.
Now I call this my magnum opus.
For many years I called it the albatross around my neck
that I never thought I would finish, but I did.
But knowing that Robert's reputation is
so negative how has his family role become so perverted.
How has this good man become the Lincoln family villain and he is
in many books and movies literally a mustached twirling villain.
Now, there are really three specific reasons
for Robert's terrible reputation
which of course I'm not gonna tell you right now,
but in a few minutes I'll explain it.
Now, Robert Lincoln was the oldest of Abraham and Mary's four sons
and he was the only son to live to maturity.
He graduated from Harvard.
He served on Ulysses S. Grant's staff during the final months
of the Civil War, and afterward he became a lawyer in Chicago
and actually he ultimately became one
of the most prestigious attorneys not only
in Chicago, but in the Midwest.
He accepted various civil service positions
in the U.S. government including, Secretary of War,
Minister to Great Britain and he became a true captain
of industry not only as President of the Pullman Company,
but he was also either President or a Board Member
of telephone companies, railroad companies, electric companies,
even automobile companies.
He was a family man, a businessman, and a philanthropist.
He was a self-made man who actually died a multi-millionaire.
Now Robert T. Lincoln, he actually never used his middle name only his
middle initial just like his mother never used Todd in her name.
That's something that later historians did.
Robert was also the preserver, protector,
and defender of his father's ever growing reputation,
as well as the owner of all of his father's papers which are now
in the library and all of his father's personal artifacts.
And in that capacity, which Robert never flaunted, he was besieged
by historians, collectors, museums, historical societies,
politicians, and the general public.
All of them seeking souvenirs, access, some sort of contact
with the last surviving link to the Great Emancipator.
And in fact pretty much from the day after the assassination in 1865
until Robert's death
in 1926 literally every single day he would have people come up to him
or write him letters, later on call him on the telephone,
and imagine this for 60 years.
Everyday people, "Can you tell me about your father,"
"Do you have anything from your father," "Can you look
at this book I wrote about your father," "Can you look
at this poem," "Can you look at this painting,"
"Can you look at this bust," everyday.
By 1909, the centennial of Abraham Lincoln's birth,
Robert was receiving more than 100 letters a day about his father
and he answered them all which is pretty heroic.
Well he didn't, his secretary did.
He made sure they were answered.
Now, Robert's attitudes towards his father's papers
and artifacts was consistent for, you know, 60 years.
Basically he never let anyone look at them except
for Nickolen Hay [assumed spelling] which I'll get to in a minute.
But basically his relationship
with his father's legacy was much more complex than just owning
or not owning these papers.
He revered his father's legacy and his father's memory,
and he believed very much in the Hagia graphical style of biography
at the time with -- people just clammering to listen
to me speak, it's wonderful.
[Laughter] Robert believed basically, you know,
biographies way back when were he's a great man,
we show all the great things, and anything that's really not
that great or might be embarrassing we just kind of,
you know, brush that aside.
That's really not that important.
And Robert believed in that.
You know, he believed in the purity of his father's memory.
But Robert was in fact very publicly reticent and he did not
like to speak about his father.
He never wanted to insert himself into his father's legacy.
But as Robert aged his patience thinned a bit
and as he got older he eventually became a little bit more outspoken
for the purity of his father's memory.
But Robert as the only surviving son of Abraham Lincoln,
he did not allow his father's legacy or memory to control his life,
although it certainly imbued it.
He never traded on his name although others did trade for him.
He did not seek publicity or public adoration,
but such exposure was often thrust upon him.
Nor did he, as many people have believed,
live under an inferiority complex due to his father's apotheosis
and the expectations of the general public although,
such judgments were often made about him.
But Robert's life is really a fantastic journey
through an amazing period in American history.
You know, he was born in 1843 in a one and a half story room, you know,
no running water, outdoor bathrooms, horses, dirt streets and he died
in 1926 in a 25-room Georgian Revival Mansion in Vermont
with a car in the garage, and a granddaughter who flew airplanes.
And Robert saw all of this growth of America.
But his life has really been unexamined.
Before my book, there was only ever one biography of Robert ever written
in 1969 by a man named John Goff
and it's called Robert Todd Lincoln: A Man in His Own Right.
And Goff's book is pretty good.
Its 286 pages.
It's very general, but it really wasn't his fault.
When he was writing this, Robert's grandchildren were still alive.
And they would not allow Goth to look at their family papers.
So Goth did, he did really well with what he had,
but what he had really wasn't a whole lot.
Now the other book there's kind of a sort of biography,
it's called Lincoln's Sons by Ruth Painter Randall,
and that was published in 1955.
And that's about all four Lincoln boys, but since Robert was the first
and the last and lived the longest, much of the book is about him.
And that's pretty good, you know both of those
of books are a good starting place,
but more information is definitely needed
to really understand Robert's life and who he was.
But because he was Abraham Lincoln's son,
unfortunately Robert has long been subsumed
under the Lincolnianna Heading, but more than that for decades,
certainly as long as I've been studying Lincoln, for 20 years,
Robert has typically been ignored, often misunderstood,
and usually maligned Lincoln scholars.
And this is really what drew me to the study of Robert,
I've been as I said, studying Lincoln
and his family for about 20 years.
And I started in 94 when I worked at the Lincoln Home in Springfield,
Illinois, and you know during that time,
since that time I've read you know hundreds, thousands probably
of books and articles, and newspapers and things,
and I've developed kind of a predilection for books and things
that I research and write about.
I prefer that they haven't been written about a thousand times,
so I always tell people I will never write a biography
of Abraham Lincoln because there's plenty.
And if I ever do, call me on it, I'll give you a free copy
of the book since I broke my word.
But you know so as I was writing
and started my writing I first did a couple of articles
about Abraham Lincoln's poetry,
which he was actually a pretty good poet,
and it's never really been written about, so I did that.
You know I studied his invention and patent,
which was my book, Lincoln the Inventor.
Mary, Lincoln's insanity case only one book had ever been done
about that.
I found lots of new items and new letters,
and ultimately somehow I stumbled upon Robert Lincoln.
And I went to his house [inaudible] in Manchester, Vermont,
which is a wonderful place.
I highly recommend it if you ever go up that way,
and I picked up John Gulf's book.
I don't really remember reading it, but I know I did.
And at some point, I wish I could remember
where because people always ask me,
but somewhere that the Republican Party tried five times
to get Robert Lincoln to run for President of the United States,
and every time he said no.
He wanted nothing, absolutely nothing to do with it.
In 1887, when he came dangerously close in 88 of being nominated
against his will, but in 1887, he very famously said,
"The presidential office is but a gilded prison that care
and worry far outweigh to my mind the honor
which surrounds the position."
But they kept trying.
In 88, one of my favorite things, the Republicans they had lost in 84
to Grover Cleveland, so they were desperate
to get the White House back and they thought,
what are the two biggest names
in the Republican Party, Lincoln and Grant?
So they wanted to run Robert Lincoln for president and Frederick Grant,
the son of U. S. Grant for vice president.
Of course neither one of the them wanted to run,
so that didn't really work, but they tried.
But so you know, I thought that was fascinating, so I wrote an article
about Robert being a non-presidential candidate.
And it was published in the American History Magazine,
which it was my first break into the slicks.
I actually got paid for it, which was a nice change as a scholar.
But as I was doing research for that,
I kept finding all these fascinating things I had never known
and had never seen published.
My next article I learned a story some of you may have heard it
that in 1863 when Robert was a college student,
he was almost killed by a train,
and the man who saved his life was named Edwin Booth,
the older brother of John Wilkes Booth.
It was a fascinating story, so I wrote an article about that,
and as I was researching that,
I just kept finding all this great stuff and kept turning
out all these articles and one day I thought, you know,
I should probably just write a book about Robert instead
of all these articles, and so, so I did.
Silly me, and what I learned very quickly as I mentioned before was
that Robert's life has really been ignored, disregarded, misunderstood,
maligned by historians, and as a result nobody has ever looked
through Robert's papers, which is amazing considering
that he was oldest son, the only son to survive and he owned the papers,
his father's papers for 60 years.
But you know and it's surprising because even
if Robert is only a minor character in the Lincoln story,
which a lot of people think, you would think that you would
at least go to his papers because he was more or less a grown man
when his father was in the White House.
You'd think you'd want to know what the son knew,
and yet no one's ever bothered to look at Robert's papers,
and it's you know as a historian it's simultaneously depressing
and exciting.
You know I was as I was doing my research for ten years researching
and writing every single day, I found something new, unknown,
unpublished, not just about Robert, but about Abraham, about Mary,
about the civil war, about his time at the White House,
about Robert's kids, his grandkids.
It was amazing the things I [inaudible] and a lot
of this stuff I had to really dig out, but a lot of it was right there
in the open that just nobody had ever cared to look for.
One of the major discoveries
that I made was really Robert's relationship with his father.
Now if you've seen the Lincoln movie,
that movie portrayed Robert exceptionally well
in the completely misguided, misunderstood, and incorrect way
that I've been talking about.
You know the typical understanding is Robert, and you know he
and his father didn't even get along, didn't like each other.
Robert was never in the White House
and they just, you know he was a Todd.
He wasn't a Lincoln and they just clashed heads you know the famous
scene where Lincoln just slaps him is just utterly ridiculous.
But what I discovered during my research was
that you know Robert was at Harvard College during the war,
so everyone said, "Well, he was never around,
so why would he know what happened in the White House?"
Well actually Robert was in the White House constantly.
Every break from school he had, summer, winter, spring,
he went to the White House.
Almost practically every weekend,
every other weekend he took the train, went to the White House.
And not only were he and his father close, but what I discovered
that Robert was actually his father's confidant during the
civil war.
Abraham Lincoln confided in his son and some of the most trying times
of the war including the Cabinet Crisis of 62,
the aftermath of The Battle of Gettysburg in 63,
the issuance of the Palmeroy Circular in 64,
The Hampton-Rhoades Peace Confidence in 65.
Robert actually once lamented to a friend
that he kept no notes during the war.
He wrote, "It's a very great regret to me that I did not do so because
on several occasions my father in his desire to unburden himself
in someone, to someone whom he had complete trust gave me statements
of the conditions of things, which were very much troubling him,
and I ought to have jotted them down."
But actually Robert did jot them down, just not in a diary,
but in numerous letters to various people throughout the years
which are spread across America, which I've,
that's why it took me ten years to write the book, one reason.
But you know every day I found something new and a lot
of things I've found here in The Library of Congress,
my favorite place to research.
I think I must have looked through, I don't know,
two or three dozen collections of papers here
in The Manuscripts Reading Room and in the newspaper microfilm room,
and in The Law Library, and in the photo room,
so I basically lived here for a few years.
Now people often ask me what's the best thing you've found?
You say you've found all this great stuff.
The best thing I ever found I actually found here at The Library
of Congress, and I had to keep it a secret for about six years.
It was killing me, and The Robert Todd Lincoln papers,
not his father's papers that he donated, but Robert's papers,
way back when I think it was two folders, and so I'm just looking
through it and just looking through the few things in there
and I find this I think it was 12 page handwritten letter dated July I
think it was July 12, 1881.
Robert was Secretary of War under President Garfield,
and he was 40 feet away when Garfield got shot.
And so I find this letter and it's detailing day by day,
some cases minute by minute everything that happened
from the moment Garfield got shot for the next seven days
in the White House, what Garfield was doing, how he was feeling,
what the doctors were doing, what they were saying,
how the government was being run.
Robert and Secretary of State,
James G. Blain basically ran the government especially for that week,
and it was just an absolute gold mine of information, and I've looked
at everything ever written about Garfield, nobody has ever used it.
I've seen how people say,
hey you find anything interesting at the library today?
No, I didn't look at Robert's papers today,
by the way, and it was incredible.
And I actually found about six letters that Robert wrote
about the assassination that nobody's ever used,
and one thing I discovered, which was amazing as I was writing
about Garfield's assassination you know during the trial of Guiteau,
the prosecution called to the stands to testify every single person
who was in the train station, The Baltimore Train Station the day,
the moment Garfield got shot, every single person except for Secretary
of War Robert Lincoln who was standing 40 feet away.
And I honestly don't know why, it's a wonderful and [inaudible] mystery
to me why they didn't call him.
I can only assume you know at the time everybody, you know,
can you believe it, Robert Lincoln,
first his father then he's standing next
to Garfield, what a horrible thing.
And maybe the court didn't want to put him through testifying.
I don't know, and so he never testified,
well maybe that's why everybody thinks that he knew nothing
about the assassination, but the odd thing is that a couple
of nights before the assassination,
Garfield sat down with Robert Lincoln, had a cigar
and asked him very kindly, but asked him if he would relate to Garfield,
if Robert would relate to Garfield the day of
and the night before his father died
and what his father was doing right before he died,
which is kind of eerie in its own way.
Now I could tell you so many stories about interesting things I found.
One thing I find people had a lot of questions on, and it's very fitting
because we're in the library is the fact that Robert had all
of his father's papers for 60 years.
You know there's been a lot of stories
that Robert burned the papers.
He purged the papers.
He edited the papers, etcetera, etcetera, but what's fascinating
to me, which I never knew was that so
after the assassination Abraham Lincoln's two secretaries,
John Nicolae and John Hay, and Robert Lincoln.
They all went to the White House and they boxed up everything
in the Oval Office and they sent I think it was 11 trunks
to the bank vault of David Davis, Abraham Lincoln's friend and at
that time was Supreme Court Justice.
And Robert's idea, Robert was the man of the family now.
He was the oldest is we'll leave them there for a while until Nicolae
and I can go through and probably David Davis
and we'll see what's good, what's bad, anything purely personal
to the family will not be released to the public,
but everything else you know we'll release it and let people see it.
So nine years later, Robert still had not gone through the boxes.
John Nicolae and John Hay,
they wanted to write what they wrote was a ten-volume biography
of Abraham Lincoln, the definitive account, and they wanted to look
through the boxes, and Robert said that they could.
He said, "But first let me go through them
and make sure there's nothing embarrassing in there,
anything purely private," and but Robert just kept pressing
because he wrote many times, "I know the minute I open those up,
I will be deluged with requests.
Everybody's going to want to see what's in the boxes."
So finally in 1874, Nicolae was just harassing him, so Robert,
he had some boxes sent to his Chicago home.
He opened up the first box, if you can imagine, just thousands
of papers in there, and he just said, "Boy,
Nicolae just go ahead and take them."
He just let them take them.
So they brought them to Washington and kept them mostly
under the U.S. Capital building.
He was the Marshall of the Supreme Court,
so he and Nicolae wrote their book, and Nicolae kept the papers
in his possession until he died in 1901.
After that John Hay was Secretary of State
to President Theodore Roosevelt.
He took the papers, put them in the vault under the State Department,
and then he died in 1905.
So Robert Lincoln came to Washington and took possession
of his father's papers, which he had not seen in 30 years.
And so you know people who say oh Robert purged the papers
and he burned them and this and that,
well Robert actually he didn't have them
in his personal possession until 1905.
So you know he was trying to decide
of course everybody wanted the papers, and in the end he decided
to donate them to The Library of Congress in 1919.
Although they weren't brought here until 1923 I believe it was
for the benefit of the people of America, which is amazing,
but you know, the most famous story about Robert burning papers,
some of you may have heard or seen it was that one
of Robert's friends was Nicholas Mary Butler.
He was the president of Columbia University.
And in his memoirs and I think Life Magazine article,
he wrote this wonderful article
about how he got this frantic call one night
from Robert's secretary I think or one of Robert's friends.
I was just over at Hill Dean
and Robert Lincoln is burning his father's papers.
You're the only one he'll listen to.
Run over there.
And so Butler runs over there, stop what you're doing!
How dare you, and he dresses Robert Lincoln down.
Those don't belong to you.
They belong to America.
You give those to the Library of Congress right now.
How dare you and Robert, oh you're right, I'm sorry.
And it's a wonderful story, and Butler was adamant.
This happened in 1924, absolutely.
Really, well Robert gave the papers away in 1919,
so I don't know what you're talking about.
But people look at that story, ah see Robert burned papers.
But actually what we know is
that Robert burned a lot of his own papers.
He was a quaint essential Victorian and arid gentleman.
And he believed very deeply in privacy, in manly duty,
manly honor, family privacy.
And so I know he burned some of his mother's papers.
He burned a lot of his own papers.
They were just private, you know he didn't want anybody to see.
But -- so I think those are where some of those stories come from.
So he never burned any of his father's papers that I'm aware of,
but it's still you know it's a fun story.
So you know I could tell you stories all day,
but I'll end with one last one.
One of my favorite stories I ever read, after Robert died it was
in one of his obituaries, his friend F. Willis Rice, who was a member
of the Chicago Club with Robert.
Robert lived in Chicago for about 50 years.
He told his favorite story about Robert Lincoln to a newspaper.
He said, "One day, seven or either years ago I was talking
with Mr. Lincoln inside one of the big windows of the Chicago Club
on Michigan Avenue, when a military parade passed by.
For some reason they stopped within our view for several minutes
and as we watched them, Mr. Lincoln laughed softly
and he told me a story.
'This reminds me of father,' he said.
'He was always eager when he saw marching troops,
to know what state they came from.
Once as we were driving through Washington, our carriage was stopped
by a body of troops crossing a corner.
In his eagerness to know from where they hailed, father opened the door
and stepping halfway out, shouted to a group
of workmen standing close by, "What is it boys?"
Meaning where did they come from.
One short little, red-haired man
with a typical Irish face affixed him with a withering glance
and retorted "It's a regimen you damned ol' fool."
In a fit of laughter father closed the door
and when his mirth had somewhat subsided he turned to me and said,
"Bob, it does a man good sometimes to hear the truth."
And so what is the truth about Robert Lincoln.
Well, quite simply, he was a great man in his own right,
separate from his father, which is in fact why his wife buried him
in Arlington National Cemetery and not
in the Lincoln Tomb in Springfield Illinois.
She thought that he deserves "His own place in the sun," as she said.
So why is Robert's reputation so negative.
I know you all thought I forgot.
I promised -- I promised I would tell you.
There's really three reasons.
One is that Robert, as a captain of industry
and a millionaire businessman, you know, he has the impression
and the reputation as kind of a cold, ruthless, adventitious CEO.
You know, he didn't like people.
He was out of touch with the common man.
That was really the thing.
You know, his father was common.
But Robert, he disdained the common man, so.
And part of that was Robert's own fault.
He didn't like talking to the press because he felt
that they just made stuff up in the paper.
But since he wouldn't talk to them, they would just make it up.
So then he wouldn't talk to them, so they, you know,
it's kind of this -- this cycle.
The second reason is Robert's commitment of his mother
to the mental institution in 1875, which has been caste as, you know,
"He bribed the judge and jury, it's a kangaroo court,
he wanted to steal her money."
All this ridiculousness nonsense, I don't --
well, I know where it came from, but its nonsense, but,
you know it persists in the face of cold evidence
that it didn't really happen that way.
But really the third reason, and probably the most important reason
for Robert's negative reputation, it all comes down, sadly, to one book.
One single book really did it all.
So the 1987 biography of Mary Lincoln, called "Mary Todd Lincoln:
A Biography" by Jean Baker.
Now, the book is a feminist, revisionist, psycho-biography;
labeled by others than me.
All though I agree with it.
But if you read that book, Robert is the most disgusting, despicable,
heartless, horrible human being
that you could ever possibly imagine roamed the earth.
Well actually Baker did imagine it, because it's all false, but,
you know, that's been the go-to book on Mary for decades
and so that's become Robert's reputation.
That's interesting though that --
she's lucky that none of Robert's family
or that his law firm were alive at the time,
because they would have sued her for liable.
Actually, one interesting thing I found out during my research was
that there was a book published in 1959 called "The Trial
of Mary Todd Lincoln" by two authors, Rhodes and Jauchius.
And it was the true story of Mary Lincoln's trial and then you open
up the flap, it's the true story "As it should have been."
And so it's basically, you know, they just made it all up.
You know, "Robert bribed the judge and the jury, kangaroo court,
he's stealing her money -- blah, blah, blah."
But it was casted as nonfiction and truth, so Robert's law firm; Isham,
Lincoln, and Beale, was still in existence at that time.
And the -- one of the vice presidents
who was also the firm historian, he read the book
and he personally had known Robert Lincoln
and he wrote them a letter -- to the two authors and the publishers
and he said, "I've just read your book,
everything in it is a malicious lie and if you do not pull every copy
of that book off every shelf in America, we will destroy you."
And it's amazing, if you look at every edition of that book
after the first one, it's now labeled as fiction.
So, there is a little justice in the world I guess.
So, you know, when I wrote my book, my goal was never
to vindicate Robert Lincoln or try to actively seek
to restore his reputation.
I just thought that he seemed like a very interesting guy,
who had never really been written about before.
But, you know, the more I learned about him the more I learned
that he was a really a great man, and his life really needs
to be understood especially for what it was
and not what it has become perceived to be.
You know, towards the end of his life, Robert Lincoln,
one time he was at the Georgetown Golf Course,
golf was one of his great passions, as was smoking cigars.
And he was sitting there smoking his cigar after a round of golf
and a reporter came up to him and wanted his picture,
wanted an interview and Robert, "No, no I don't want it."
And the guy just kept bothering him.
Finally, Robert turned to him and he said listen,
"My father was a great man, but I am not."
And he got up and walked away.
Now, I for one, would respectfully disagree.
Thank you very much.
[ Applause ]
I would love to take questions.
Yes, ma'am.
>> Does he have any heirs at this point?
>> Any heirs left?
No. Robert had three children; two daughters and son.
His son Abraham Lincoln the second, and they called Jack,
died when he was 16 of blood poisoning.
His daughter Mary, his oldest daughter Mary Isham.
She got married.
She had one son, Abraham Lincoln Isham, they called him Link.
And Jessie Beckwith, the -- or Jessie Lincoln, Robert's smallest --
his youngest child was, she was kind
of the wild-child of the Lincoln family.
She eloped with a football player.
Robert locked her in her room for two days, it was all in the media.
She had two children; Robert and Mary Beckwith
and so Robert had those three grandchildren.
And all three of them, as far as I can determine,
purposefully did not have children.
They all hated being Lincolns.
They felt that it was a curse.
They felt like they were sideshow freaks and they didn't want
to pass it on to another generation.
So Bud Beckwith, the last one --
Robert Todd Lincoln Beckwith, they called him Bud.
He died in 1985 and he was the last direct descendant.
Yes sir.
>> Yes three pieces, can you talk about Robert's connections
to the Lincoln Memorial, his house in Georgetown,
and the Georgetown Golf Course.
>> Yes. Yes, Robert, he lived in Chicago for 50 years and in 1911,
he spent a lot of time in Washington; politics,
his law practice, what have you.
And his wife and his daughter Jessie; she got divorced
and she basically lived with her parents with her two kids
for a couple of decades I think.
And Jesse and Robert's wife's name was also Mary.
Four Marys in the Lincoln family.
They wanted to move to Washington.
So they bought a house -- I think it was 2013 N Street
in Washington in 1911.
And they owned that until Mary Harlan Lincoln died in 1936.
And Robert was very sad, they lived in Chicago for 50 years.
But I've seen some interesting newspaper articles.
You know, Robert would just walk the streets.
You know, he just -- he was just a normal guy.
He just wanted to kind of be a normal guy.
And so every once in a while The Washington Post
or The Washington Star would state,
"Sometimes you'll see a very quiet elderly gentleman, with a whitebeard
and hat walking the streets of Georgetown
and nobody would that's the son of Abraham Lincoln."
So, yes, actually the -- Robert's house was ultimately was bought
by Ben Bradlee of The Washington Post.
I think he might still own it, or his wife.
I'm not sure.
But, no Robert had quite a connection to Washington.
The Lincoln Memorial, Robert was intricately involved
in its creation for 20 years.
The idea started in 1901 and Robert -- he knew everybody in Washington;
politicians, generals, everybody.
One reason because he worked in Washington,
but also because everybody wanted to know him, because he was the son
of Abraham Lincoln and so -- but he was actively involved --
he believed -- he never got involved in anything about his father,
any statues, or anything, but the Lincoln Memorial he did.
He felt that that was kind of the one great thing
that he wanted to contribute to.
And so, you know it kind of got started, it stopped for a while,
started and stopped, and ultimately when it really got under way
in the late teens, early twenties, former President Taft was the head
of the commission and he and Robert were friends.
So Robert would ask him how it was going, he would help him,
he would talk to politicians.
Robert offered to give money occasionally for things,
all though he wanted it kept out of the papers.
But he visited Daniel Chester French's studio and gave him tips
on the statue of his father.
And actually most artists for, you know, the 60 plus years
that Robert lived after the assassination, they did their stuff
about Abraham Lincoln and they never consulted Robert.
And Robert actually, I once read a letter that he wrote saying,
you know, "The Lincoln Memorial is wonderful and, you know,
Mr. French did a great job because he listened to me
when I told him how my father looked.
Nobody else has ever listened to me,
and that's why I hate all the art about my father."
So, Robert actually got a pass that he
and anybody he brought could tour the memorial as it was
under construction, at any time, day or night.
Which he -- one of his great prides was to bring people up there, "See,
this is where my father's going to be."
So, yes, and then he joined the Georgetown Golf Club.
I think he belonged to a couple of clubs around here.
He loved golf.
He played every day.
As much as he could I should say, until his doctor --
he got so old his doctor said, you know, "I'm afraid that you're going
to fall and hurt yourself and you need to stop playing golf."
So. Yes, sir.
>> This morning my wife and I went to, you know,
to Arlington to see where he was buried.
Could you tell us if the service [inaudible] he wanted
to be buried in Illinois?
>> Yes. When Robert died he fully expected to be buried
in the Lincoln Tomb in Illinois.
There was an empty crypt just for him and his wife.
His son Jack was already buried in the Lincoln Tomb.
When he died Robert was minister to Great Britain
and they sent the body home and took it to the Lincoln Tomb.
But, so Robert died and his wife Mary, she was a very,
very religious woman -- she was a Christian Scientist.
And I've seen the letters she say, "I've prayed and prayed
for two weeks and I -- the other day I had a revelation.
Our -- our beloved one was his own great man and deserves his own place
in the sun, and therefore I'm not going to bury him in Illinois."
And -- but because he was on Grant's staff and Secretary of War,
he was entitled to Arlington and, you know, everybody --
the State of Illinois, they already started preparing the burial,
the movement, opening the tomb, parades, everything.
And the people of Illinois were furious as you can imagine.
So, yes, so -- but she didn't care.
She said, "I'm going to bury him here."
And she had it, you know, she paid for the tombstone
and she got all the permission, requisite permissions and everything
and Jack was in the Lincoln Tomb until 1932.
She didn't want them to open the tomb just for Jack.
So in the '30s, the tomb was crumbling so they had to open --
move all the bodies so they could fix the tomb, so she said well
since you're opening the tomb, I'm going to take my son,
so they brought him to Arlington.
But his name was not on Robert's stone until the 19 --
early 80s I think because the Arlington Cemetery rules,
for a time, were no miners can be listed on a stone.
So Robert Todd Lincoln Beckwith, the last decedent,
he petitioned to get that changed.
So now there's a little tomb stone, it says "AL Second on it."
Yes, sir.
>> I would like for you to shed --
perhaps a little bit of light
on a story that's a little bit more negative that I've heard.
And this story comes out of actually a State
of Illinois Historical Society, the site is dedicated to --
essentially the homestead --
the final homestead of Thomas Lincoln, the grandfather.
And the story that's told there, there was a cabin
in which Sarah Bush Lincoln and Thomas Lincoln lived and after both
of their deaths other family members, [inaudible] family members
and other types [inaudible] family members live in the cabin.
Then in 1893, after the death of Abe Lincoln there was a decision made
to show the cabin at the 1893 Chicago World's Fair
and it was moved, it was a dumpy looking cabin, moved up there
and evidently Robert Todd Lincoln saw it --
Robert T Lincoln saw it and said, "Well, you know,
this is awful we can't have our family looking --
the story I've heard -- looking like a bunch of hillbillies...
>> Right.
>> ...and it was taken apart and then --
so last seen as a pile of lumber on Wabash Avenue.
It's been reconstructed evidently --
it's been reconstructed on the site there
in Lockset [assumed], Illinois.
But that's maybe a more negative...
>> Right.
>> ...portrayal.
Have you heard this story at all?
>> Not that one specifically.
I've heard variations of it.
And I've heard a lot of stories that Robert was embarrassed
by his father's roots, his grandparents, you know --
that they were so poor and lived out --
actually there's a great book by -- I think it's Ed Steers,
"Lincoln Legends," is that Ed Steers.
Boy, oh boy Ed's going to get mad at me, I think it was Ed Steers.
It's about Lincoln legends and it's all about the various legends
of Abraham Lincoln and one is the birthplace cabin
and it's -- it's really fascinating.
The cabin -- I think it was the '93 World's Fair,
was the first time it was taken apart and taken to be exhibited,
as was the one room log cabin birthplace of Jefferson Davis
and they became like this traveling show.
And through the years all the wood just got mixed up together and,
you know, they're just like, "Here's the wood,
let's build a little cabin with it."
So, you know, eventually now it's in Illinois.
It's probably wasn't the original one they took it in '93 anyways.
The last -- I think last I knew was that in --
during the Civil War some soldiers found the cabin and said,
"This is where the president was born."
And that's the last note that I've ever seen
that the original cabin was at that site.
But so now what's in Kentucky or Illinois is not the original.
But, no, Robert, from my research, I don't think that he was embarrassed
or humiliated by his grandparents' humble beginnings.
You know, there's -- one of the famous stories is that when Nicolay
and Hay were writing their book, they basically --
you know Hay wrote the story about Thomas Lincoln
and he basically said, "Oh, he was a dumb, hick, hillbilly,
he liked to drink and party, and he was shiftless,
he didn't really work, he beat Abraham, and Abraham hated him.
Horrible stuff.
And Robert -- he had the final say in their book.
They said, you know, "We want you to look at what we write."
Robert didn't ask for it, but they wanted him to do that, so --
and he edited that chapter very heavily.
He said "Listen, you know, he was who he was, but, you know,
I feel bad for him, because, you know, how was he ever to know
that he now has to stand next to the shadow of his great son.
So, we can't really be too harsh on the guy.
He lived then, he did the best he could."
Now history has shown that Thomas Lincoln was not a drunk,
he didn't beat his son.
He wasn't shiftless near-do-well.
He was actually a hardworking farmer who was pretty successful.
So, I've never heard that about the World's Fair,
all though I know Robert went to the World's Fair.
I don't know, I personally tend not to believe those stories.
Just from everything that I read that Robert wrote
about his grandparents or his father's early childhood.
And actually most of the time, especially in 1909 a lot
of school kids wrote to Robert, can you tell me about your father
and what's the best -- what can I learn from your father.
Always -- almost every letter Robert said, "What you can learn
from my father is that it doesn't matter where you come from,
you can become the President of the United States if you work hard
and you believe in yourself.
He started with a dirt floor and he ended up in the White House."
So, he was very proud of that actually that his father had --
self-taught, had ascended that high.
Yes sir.
>> Can you talk a little bit
about Robert's relationship late in his mother's life?
How estranged were they, those kinds of thing.
>> Sure. Yes, Robert -- Robert and his mother were incredibly close
and there's a book out -- came out last year called
"The Mary Lincoln Enigma" and it's a bunch of essays about Mary
and I wrote one about Mary and Robert's relationship.
And I argue in that essay, I think Robert --
Mary was closer to Robert than she was to Abraham in many ways.
During the Illinois years, Lincoln was gone six to nine months
of the year riding the judicial circuit and doing politics.
Robert was always home.
He became -- he was really his mother's best friend,
he was her confidant.
She was terrified of robbers and lightening.
He was the one that she always clung to.
When Eddie died, when he was four, Robert was seven,
he was the one Mary clung to.
He was the one that dealt with her in her grief.
Lincoln rode off on the circuit.
And so they were incredibly close.
All their letters attest to this.
After the assassination, they remained close.
Mary's letters all constantly say, you know,
"Robert is the greatest son who's ever lived."
And she ultimately bestows upon
against him the greatest compliment she can.
She says, "He grows more and more every day like his sainted father."
After Robert had his mother committed,
of course Mary got a little upset.
She thought -- she was -- one of her many symptoms was she was paranoid.
And she thought he was --
she was also obsessed and diluted about money.
She always thought she was on the brink of poverty
and she thought he was trying to steal her money,
which is where that accusation comes from.
Is that's what Mary thought, which is not true,
but basically she wouldn't forgive him for it.
So she was in the mental institution for four months.
She was in the Edward's Home in Springfield for another nine months
under court order, but in their house.
When she was declared restored to sanity, a few months later she went
to Europe in a self-imposed exile and she
and Robert did not speak for five years.
And Robert -- many letters that I've seen,
and I think I have them all in this book here.
He was heartbroken, you know, in letters he always said,
"Someone just asked me where my mother is and I said 'I --
she's somewhere in Europe, I don't know because she won't speak to me."
And Robert's aunts, Elizabeth Edwards, who was Mary's sister,
she kept urging Robert, "You should --
you should mend fences, mend fences."
Finally, Robert wrote her a letter.
He said, "I have nothing against my mother, I will speak to her tomorrow
and not blame her for anything because I know it wasn't her fault,
but she won't speak to me."
So finally, in 1881 -- Mary came back from Europe in 1880.
She was very poor in health, back problems,
leg problems, she was going blind.
I'm sure she missed her family, as well.
She came back.
In 1881, Robert was Secretary of War and he went from Washington
to Fort Leavenworth, Kansas to inspect the fort, and on his way
out there, he stopped in Springfield and spoke
to his mother for the first time.
And we don't know -- I'm -- my guess is
that Elizabeth Edwards arranged the meeting,
but we know that Robert would have done it.
I think she probably smoothed out Mary
to eventually accept talking to Robert.
So after they reconciled, Robert visited her about every two weeks
and then she spent six or eight months
in New York getting medical treatment and when she was
in New York, he and his family visited her every week
until she died.
So, they mended fences.
But -- you know, it's really sad to read the letters,
that she was so angry at him, which is you know.
When I wrote this book, I spoke with many psychiatric medical experts.
And my main expert, he said he had a case just like this.
A woman clearly had, you know, various issues, schizophrenia
or something, her son had her committed against her will.
Nowadays, you know, she was committed for two weeks
for observation, she was given medication
and the medication evened her out.
And the doctor told me, he said she admits to me, "Yes.
I needed help the medication is helping me, I feel great."
But she never forgave her son for having her committed.
Even though she knows it was the right thing.
So it's very sad.
Yes sir.
>> There's been a lot of speculation and discussion over the years
about what Abraham Lincoln's voice sounded like.
Sadly we will never know.
But are there audio recordings of Robert Lincoln and also is there --
is there any film of him?
>> Not that I've seen.
I have to admit after my book was done, I stumbled across a reference
in the Columbia University Library Collections
of a supposed recording of Robert Lincoln.
But I haven't had -- honestly haven't had time to go look into it.
So supposedly there is.
That's the only thing I've ever found.
You know, he was at the dedication of the Lincoln Memorial,
so there is, I think, video footage of that.
And there's -- obviously there's a lot of photographs.
But I think there's video of him when he arrived and when he walked
up the steps with -- the military helped him up there,
wearing a top hat that I discovered within the last year or two
that that was probably one of his father's hats that he wore there,
kind of an Omanis to his father which is pretty neat.
But I think Daniel Day Lewis probably pegged Lincoln's voice
pretty great in the movie.
That was uncanny how amazing he was as Lincoln.
I've been studying Lincoln for 20 years -- that was Lincoln.
It was just crazy.
Yes sir.
>> Did you come across any interesting communications
between he and Theodore Roosevelt,
or any observations by him on Roosevelt?
>> Yes, many.
Roosevelt revered Abraham Lincoln and so he --
you know, he wanted to get to know his son, Robert Lincoln.
Robert had met him multiple times in Washington.
I'm trying to think of the chronology here so I'm correct.
They had many -- when McKinley was shot,
Robert was on his way to Buffalo.
He was not in Buffalo.
He got to Buffalo, he went to the Milburn house and as he came out,
he met with Vice President Roosevelt and he, you know, said,
"Thank God the President's okay."
Of course all the doctors are, "Oh, he'll be fine don't worry about it."
And so he had a brief chat with Roosevelt and then
of course the president died.
Robert wrote him this wonderful letter.
I think it's here actually in the Roosevelt Papers
in the manuscript room, where he said, "When I saw you
that day outside of the Milburn House neither one
of us had expected the president to die.
You know, I will not congratulate you for becoming the president
because I know better than anybody what a horrible job that is.
And I don't envy you your position."
So they became -- they became somewhat friends.
The wrote occasional letters and Robert went to the White House
for functions occasionally.
During Roosevelt's -- I think his bid
for election in '04 I think it was.
He started claiming the mantle of Lincoln
for his progressive policies.
Robert was a conservative republican --
all his life, die-hard conservative republican;
whatever republican was at that time.
And he was furious.
And he publically wrote letters saying, you know, Roosevelt --
Colonel Roosevelt doesn't know what he's talking about,
my father would be aboard if he knew that this man is claiming his mantle
and they had a little public spat in the newspapers.
And Roosevelt basically said, "Oh,
Robert doesn't know what he's talking
about I know -- I know who I am."
So then, but then they cleared that up and --
and actually, a really fascinating story I found during my research,
the 1912 presidential nominating convention; Roosevelt, Taft,
and whomever -- somebody else.
Anyways, you know, Taft and Roosevelt were trying
to maneuver each other out of the nomination.
And Roosevelt, he tried to finagle a group of members
to nominate Robert Lincoln for president.
That was the fifth time.
And Robert was sixty-something, he said, "Listen,
I don't want to be president, but I can tell you right now,
if I were to get the job it would kill me because I'm not
in good health, and no thanks."
Roosevelt's ploy failed.
His delegate could not get in there to nominate Robert Lincoln, but,
you know, it's kind of an interesting thing
to know what may have happened
if he had actually gotten into the [inaudible].
So they had a very interesting relationship.
Roosevelt thought Robert was one of the best ministers to Great Britain
that he had ever seen in his adult life.
So, yes sir.
>> [Inaudible].
>> Was Taft?
Yes, they were -- they were very good friends.
Actually, Taft was the first American President
to really play golf, and Robert was an avid golfer,
and so they became golfing buddies and Taft went to Hildene a number
of times, basically just to play golf.
They were -- Robert supported him for re-election,
gave money to his campaign, invited him to Manchester,
Vermont during the campaign.
I think he voted for him.
You know, he always admired Taft, thought he was a good president,
thought he was a Supreme Court Justice.
But it was, you know, kind of a -- more than an acquaintance,
but not a deep friendship.
You know, they knew each other.
I mean, I think the real connection was golf mostly.
But, at that time, Robert really hated Teddy Roosevelt,
so he very vociferously supported Taft.
Another question?
Yes, sir.
>> I've read your book.
>> Thank you.
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
>> It was very enjoyable to read.
I learned about a lot in that book
and I really appreciate you doing it.
Two things though, what was his wife Mary's illness?
She seemed to be sick quite a long time in his life
and you never quite said what she had, and then the other was
with the talk of Mary Lincoln, or Mary Todd Lincoln that --
that with the -- with the insanity trial that that couple
from Chicago -- oh my God.
>> Right, the Bradwells?
>> Could you -- could you speak just a little bit about those?
>> Sure. Robert's wife, Mary Harlan Lincoln was a very sickly woman,
always sick, as was her mother actually.
I honestly, I never say what her illness is
because I actually don't know.
They were not -- Robert was a private person,
his wife was manically private person.
And I think she also had some social anxiety disorder too.
She hated public events and -- so I -- I actually don't know,
it's just she was always sick, or else she was with her mother
who was sick, so she was caring for her mother.
And then she was always sick, and then she
and her mother they'd be sick together and they'd go out to,
you know, they'd go to the Rocky Mountains to recover and.
And so yeah, it's -- but it actually was about the 1880s or so.
So, throughout the 70s and 80s, she was sick all the time and then
after about the 1880s that sickness really drops way off
and I don't know if she grew out of something.
She may have found actually a doctor
who actually knew what he was doing -- I'm not sure.
But she was still had a lot of illnesses throughout her life.
But nothing like -- that decade 70 to 80 was pretty awful.
And, you know, a lot of people have said, "Well, she was an alcoholic."
And you may have heard that.
I think that came from Jean Baker's book, as well.
Not one shred of proof for that.
And I've searched through the entire Hildene House,
the Hildene historians searched through the entire house,
no bottles, no receipts, no records, no letters, no nothing.
But Peggy Beckwith, Robert's granddaughter,
has a membership card to Alcoholics Anonymous.
So apparently that's the proof.
That Peggy was and therefore Mary Harlan was drunk.
So, I don't know she was just sick.
And the second part was the insanity -- oh the Bradwells.
Yes, the Bradwells were a pretty interesting couple.
You know they were both lawyers, Myra Bradwell was a feminist,
an abolitionist, and amazingly brilliant woman.
But I think that they were just out for themselves, you know,
they played it like they were trying to protect Mary from Robert,
but really they were just getting their own publicity for --
they ran a newsletter and he was a political official.
And then after Mary got out, they didn't speak to her
for -- I think over a year.
Now one thing I theorize in my book, there may have been some kind
of an agreement between them and Robert,
where Robert said I will let her go
if you just go away, which would make sense.
But I think that they were kind of self-serving opportunists myself,
but -- and yet they were also her friends, you know,
eventually they all reconnected and up until the --
about 1880 I think was the last letter I saw,
they actually corresponded.
And the Bradwell's granddaughter inherited numerous items
that Mary Lincoln had given Myra Bradwell and she gave them --
a lot to Chicago and some to Springfield, Illinois.
Supposedly the pen that Lincoln used
to sign the Emancipation Proclamation,
supposedly she had that.
There was a big thing, someone else said, "No, I've got the pen.
You don't have the pen."
It's a sorted world, you know, but.
But, no so they were interesting people, but that was --
it was through their descendent that I actually found the trunk full
of Mary's letters from the asylum that had been missing
for almost 100 years and I found -- was through their descendent,
their last living descendent.
He had some documents about it that lead me on the trail.
Yes sir.
>> I don't know whether this is accurate or not, but I've heard
that Robert Lincoln held back some of his father's papers
for release years after most of them were release
and my question is number one, is that accurate?
And number two, if it is why?
>> Well when he donated the papers to the Library
of Congress he had a stipulation in there
that the papers could not be publically open for,
was it 27 years, 21 years until after he had died --
or after they had been or after he had died.
And that was -- you know there's been a lot of theories about,
he was trying to deny access to people; historians, whatever.
Basically, what -- as a Victorian gentleman
and he puts it right in the document.
He says, "There are things in here that could be embarrassing
or damaging to people who are still living or to their children
and I just -- I don't want to put them through that, so by that time,
they'll all be dead and then we can all see the papers."
So, now after he died, you know, his family still owned a ton
of stuff from the Lincoln family.
So Mary Harlan Lincoln donated a number of items to the Library
of Congress after Robert's death, after she died, her daughter Maimi,
Mary Isham donated items.
Her son Lincoln donated items.
The two Beckwith children, I don't know that they ever did.
They hated being -- they really didn't care about being Lincolns so.
There was just that one, just to protect people
who might be referenced in the papers.
Should I cut it off?
Alright, thank you all so much.
I'm sorry I could talk forever.
[ Applause ]
>> If you come over here, you can ask more question if you have any.
>> Yes, I can just keep talking all day.
>> This has been a presentation of the Library
of Congress, visit us at loc.gov.