>> From the Library of
Congress in Washington DC.
[ Silence ]
>> Chris Murphy: Good
afternoon ladies and gentlemen.
I'm Chris Murphy.
I'm the head of the
Near East section here
in the African Middle
Eastern Division.
In behalf of all my colleagues in
the division and, in particular,
the chief of our division
Dr. Mary-Jane Deeb,
I wish you all the
warmest of welcomes.
Today's lecture is significant
because it is the last, I believe,
of a dozen that have
taken place in connection
with the extremely
popular A Thousand Years
of the Persian book exhibit,
which is on the other side
of this building on this floor.
If you've not seen the exhibit,
it's coming down this
weekend, this coming weekend.
So, I urge you all to go see it.
Now, the Near East
section, as I said,
is part of the African
Middle Eastern Division.
And, this division
staff is responsible
for building the collection,
developing the collection from
and about all of Sub Saharan Africa,
the purview of the African section,
North Africa, or we should say all
of the Arab countries including
those in North Africa, Turkey,
Turkic Central Asia,
Iran, Afghanistan,
the Muslims in Western China, Russia
and the Balkans, and, of course,
the Peoples of the Caucasus.
So, the Near East section and
the division, and oh I forgot,
the Hebraic section
which is responsible
for Hebraica and Judaica worldwide.
You can see the debts and breadths
of this division's work,
it's responsibilities.
And, one of the main
responsibilities we have is
to make these collections
known to the American people
and to the scholarly community, the
international scholarly community.
And, to that end, we, when we
are able to find the funding,
we create these exhibits.
This Persian exhibit is
the 3rd, is the 4th of 4.
We had 1 on letters from
current Afghanistan.
We had one on the Armenian books
celebrating the 500th anniversary
of movable type printing in Armenia,
and 1 on the Hebraic book
celebrating the 100th anniversary
of the Hebraic section
here in the library.
We are, particularly, pleased
that, along with this exhibit,
we have had this lecture series.
And, I want to thank both Fatimah
Kashfars [assumed spelling],
professor at Maryland who has been
instrumental in finding the lectures
and a benefactor, Dr. Mir Joali
[assumed spelling] who is well known
to Fatimah who has made
the funding available
so that these lectures
could take place here
and at the University of Maryland.
And so, I'd ask you all to
give a big hand to Fatimah.
[ Applause ]
Now, I'm going to ask
Hirad Dinavari,
the curator of the
exhibit, to come forward
because I know he has a
few things to say himself.
[ Silence ]
>> Hirad Dinavari: Thank you Chris.
And, thank you everyone for coming,
especially on a lunch
break during the week.
I know it's not easy to
transport throughout DC.
I want to take a minute
to, essentially,
thank the Iranian American
Community immensely
for making this exhibition happen.
Without the funding and support,
it would not have happened.
As the exhibit has unfolded and
opened, I've had a large number
of people from the Iranian
American community, Tyagi community,
Afghan community, giving in groups
such as the Iranian Jewish
community, Baha'i community,
Zoroastrian, Ismaili, and on and on
who have come and seen the exhibit
and have really, really, enjoyed
it and have been really very, very,
very positive and grateful
for having an inclusive
exhibition like this.
This would not have happened without
the support of the community.
And, especially, I want to thank
PAAIA, the Public Affairs Alliance
of Iranian Americans
who made it possible,
Ms. Sally [Inaudible]
who's not here, was crucial
and instrumental in
raising the funds.
And, I also want to thank University
of Maryland, Dr. Fatimah Kashfars
and by extension, the Roshan
Cultural Institute in Hawaii,
Dr. [Inaudible] for allowing
this lecture series to happen.
This lecture series has
enriched the exhibition threefold
by allowing wonderful scholars
from around the world to come here
and to, essentially, speak about
the Persian book tradition.
And, nothing's better than ending
it on such a wonderful note.
The present lecture,
which, essentially,
talks about the humanism
and the inclusiveness
of the Persian book tradition.
Without taking too much time,
I'm going to ask Dr. [Inaudible]
to come here and to introduce
our guest speaker Dr. Dabashi.
But, I also want to take a
second and say how grateful I am
to Fatimah herself and to Dr. Mozoff
[assumed spelling], in Germany,
for helping me with the manuscript
and lithographic content
of the exhibition.
Their expertise was truly needed.
And, the library has had up to 60
plus employees and staff who have,
in some way, played a
role in this exhibit.
They all played an important role
and they should be recognized.
Thank you very much.
[ Applause ]
>> Dr. Fatimah Kashfars:
Thank you very much.
This has been a tremendously
rewarding partnership
with the library.
And, I cannot, possibly,
put it into words.
I should, quickly, also add my own
personal thanks the Hawaii Cultural,
the Persian Cultural
Heritage Institute in Hawaii
and the Dr. [Inaudible] who
personally funded this series.
The Library of Congress has
been an amazing partner.
Thank you so much, Mary-Jane,
Chris, Hirad, you know,
I just can go on, on that.
And, I, really, want to have a time
to listen to Professor Dabashi.
So, I wouldn't, I wouldn't
say more except
for this has been just tremendously
rewarding to do this work.
Professor Dabashi and I go way back.
So, I can go on about the
background of his work,
many of you know him well.
And, I'm not going
to go into any detail
of all the books that
he has written.
He comes from the City
of Ahvaz in Southern Iran
where he got his early education,
he did his PHD in sociology,
sociology of culture in Islamic
studies from the University
of Pennsylvania and followed it
with a post doctorate at Harvard.
There are seats in the front,
if you, please move forward.
That's fine.
Hamid is a Hagop Kevorkian
Professor of Iranian Studies
and Comparative Literature at
Columbia, also a founding member
of the Center for Palestine
Studies at Columbia University.
He has written 25 books.
And, I really mean he
has written 25 books.
These are not chapters or
edited volumes or, you know,
introductions to books, but,
actually 25 single authored
monographs edited for
and contributed numerous chapters
to various other publications,
over 100 essays.
You know that.
And, these are articles in peer
review journals not referring
to what he's done in the, you
know, public media in order
to address some of
the current issues,
which he has also been doing.
A selected sample of his writing
is co-edited by Andrew Davidson
and [inaudible], I call the
world as my home, [inaudible].
That came out in 2010, so that would
be a good window into his work.
He's an internationally
renowned cultural critic
and an award winning author.
You know his books have
been, and articles,
have been translated
into numerous languages.
I'm not going to, again,
count those.
I would like, though, to refer to
the fact that he's also the founder
of Dreams of a Nation, a Palestinian
film project dedicated to preserving
and safeguarding Palestinian cinema.
So, I think, that that's a
tremendously worthy contribution.
And, let me spend a couple
of minutes only on this book
about which I'm hoping
Hamid will talk today,
the world of Persian,
literally, humanism.
I think this is a wonderful
ending to this whole series.
In this work, Dabashi has two major
goals, he wants to open a window
on a millennium of
Persian prose and poetry
and other artistic expressions
from the later period actually
comes to the contemporary era.
And, he likes us to read
and appreciate these artistic
expressions on their own terms
that is through the expansive and
colorful lens of their worldliness.
That is the concept that he
introduces and focuses on,
on their worldliness
of this literature.
In particular, he likes us to see
that this literary heritage may be
inform by religious scholasticism,
but, is not reduced to it.
So, we need to really
look beyond that.
He would also like us to
get a better understanding
of how this literary humanism that
is generated, which is vibrant
with emotive and intellectual
encounters
with the rest of the world.
So, there's a kind
of a world view there
that he brings to our attention.
And, much of this multicultural
kind of pulley vocal urbanisim
that he talks about is developed in
successive imperial periods, which,
so, in other words, he actually
grounds it deeply in history
in these, in these, in these
particularly significant historical
period, periods.
What I really also like is
that he goes back, again,
from this vast panoramic view
to the notion of [inaudible]
or what he calls the fragile
and unknowing subject.
The [inaudible] on the one had
is connected with this world,
on the other hand is very
aware of the smallness.
And, quite rightly, he points out
that, if this had been studied more
in depth earlier on, it
would've had a great impact
on the theoretical
understandings of the South
and the performative
[assumed spelling] South
and all these subject
theorization on the subject.
I'm going to stop so
that he can talk.
These books are available
at the back.
Dr. Dabashi has graciously
agreed to sign them for you.
Please give a warm welcome to
him and enjoy his presentation.
Thank you.
[ Applause ]
[ Silence ]
>> Dr. Hamid Dabashi:
Good afternoon.
And, thank you for coming.
I know it's your lunch time.
And, I'll try to be, if not
convincing, at least, entertaining.
So, it'll be worthwhile.
I'm absolutely delighted and
grateful to my colleagues
and the Library of
Congress to host me here.
I've never been to the
Library of Congress.
This is the first time that I
am in the Library of Congress.
And, I'm absolutely delighted
to see what our tax money is put
to some very good use
in the nation's capitol.
My gratitude is, particularly,
to my dear friend and colleague,
Professor [Inaudible] who
initiated this invitation
for me to come and talk to you.
I'm, absolutely, flabbergasted
by the extraordinary exhibition
that Mr. [Inaudible]
kindly gave me a tour
of the One Thousand
Years of Persian Books.
As you know, books 5are
disappearing into thin air.
And, anytime I see one of my
students actually [inaudible]
and has a physical book like this,
I get excited because I, myself,
have transformed into PDF
and iPad and all of that.
And, but, my understudy, who is a
PC student in English [inaudible].
I'm delighted to see that
she is actually interested
in the physical book.
I'm more into PDF and
so forth than she is.
But, I will say I have
something to prove.
She doesn't have anything to prove.
Now, the book that Professor
[Inaudible] was talking about,
the World of Persian Literary
Humanism, is entirely indebted
to my work with one of the greatest
literary intellectual scholars
of my generation, Professor George
Makdisi, Late George Makdisi.
I was a student at Penn when he
was writing his two masterpieces
on Arabic literary humanism
and on the rise of colleges.
The rise of colleges is
on, it's on scholasticism
and the humanism is
on Arabic humanism.
I was a green headed
graduate student
but he was exceptionally
generous and patient with me.
I would take issue with him.
And, in fact, the book confused
my taking issue with him.
Because of his, he was Lebanese.
He came the Mediterranean culture.
So, this interesting
humanism was, in fact,
comparative with European
humanism and Latin humanism.
So, if you were to read the book,
you will see him constantly
make comparison with Latin West.
And, that was his frame
of comparative reference.
Whereas, my interest
was further to the East.
I wanted to take George's ideas
and concepts and engagement further
to the, to the East of
Islamic empire, empires,
there's multiple empires.
And also, partly because
of my both benefiting
from a magnificent history of
Persian literary historiography
with people EG Brown and [Inaudible]
and so forth but not being happy
with what they were doing
because, in my opinion,
they were shoving a vast and
multifaceted literary history
into a narrow national
historiography.
In fact, EG Brown tells
you, at the beginning
of his magnificent four volumes,
that, he always write history
of Persian literature
very much like the history
of literature of the British people.
Whereas, the historical
context of the production
of Persian literary
literature is much larger
and is entirely imperial.
And, it is within that
imperial context that I begin
to re-narrate the production
of Persian literary sources.
Very briefly, to bring you into the
context, I begin with the formation
of the first dynasties the
[inaudible] and so forth.
When the Persian language becomes
an entirely political proposition.
[Inaudible] is famous to have said
to a poet to praise in Arabic, why,
you praise me in a language
that I don't understand.
Praise me in Persian.
So, and, also the fact that, in the
eastern most parts of the empire,
Arabic did not influence,
it was not as wide spread.
And, we know, for example,
from the translation
of [inaudible] was
translated into Persian.
Letters were exchanged to
[inaudible] soliciting permission
for his commentary to be
translated into Persian.
And, subsequently, his history,
the History [inaudible] was
to be translated into Persian.
But soon, other sources began
to be producing Persian directly
without being translated
such as the Book of Geography
who [inaudible] the text
is actually Persian.
Or, a book on [inaudible].
So, Persian, eventually, begins
to emerge as a language of piety,
people wanted to know interpretation
of their own or the history
of Islamic dynasties, but,
eventually becomes independent and,
eventually enters the Persian court
of the [inaudible] and so forth.
I begin, in the book,
periodize the manner
in which the language
Persian is understood
and interpreted and performed.
And, the first phase that I
identify in the immediate aftermath
of the [inaudible] empire
is connecting it with the
so called [inaudible] movement which
is a movement against [inaudible],
initially [inaudible] an early
[inaudible] period tribalism
that claims Arabic
as a tribal language.
And here, I root the emergence of
impact Arabic literary humanism
to the cosmopolitan
conflicts [inaudible],
[inaudible] in the aftermath
of the [inaudible] revolution,
after 750 when the capital is
moved from Damascus to [inaudible],
by that becomes a cosmopolitan
culture
in which you don't
even have to a Muslim.
There are Christians there are
Zorastrians, there are Jews,
there are all sorts of
people in [inaudible]
as a cosmopolitan capital
and enriched culture.
In fact, Arabic language
itself becomes beneficiary
of multiple languages and cultures
who begin to compose in Arabic.
My argument here is, again
following George Makdisi, that,
we have two very general
branches in production
of knowledge in Islamic context.
One we call scholasticism, knowledge
of [inaudible], eventually,
[inaudible] theology, philosophy,
those are all related
to scholasticism.
And then, the second, but
related to it, is the production
of literary humanism or [inaudible]
which we have in both Arabic
and Persian and Hindu
[inaudible] and Turkish.
So, the concept of [inaudible] which
is the at the center of my book,
I take it and carry it
into Persian context.
Production of Persian sources,
I argue, in the early period
when it corresponds with the
[inaudible] movement, is,
at the root of it,
a concept of ethnos
because the Arab poets were boasting
how great they were, suddenly,
in the rise of the [inaudible]
movement, you have the boasting
of the Persian poet about
the [inaudible] greatness
of the Persian language.
So, Persian, or the
ethnic origin of this,
Persian becomes an
ethnic proposition.
My argument, then, is that,
with this establishment
of the [inaudible] who are
normal [inaudible] have no claim
to the [inaudible] but actually
come from the Turkic tribes
from central Asia, Persian ceases
to have any ethnic reference,
but becomes a linguistic
proposition, a language proposition.
Persian belongs to
those who speak Persian.
It doesn't belong to this
ethnicity called the Persians.
It's a linguistic proposition.
Whoever speaks it,
Turk, Arab, Iranian,
it doesn't make no difference.
So, language has, in fact,
transformed, transmuted from a claim
to ethnicity, at most, to claim to
logos, a language who speaks it.
And, it is at this period, at
this time that, as you know,
late [inaudible] period, that we
have the production of [inaudible].
This famous manuscript illustration,
that some of you may know,
comes from the so called [inaudible]
or what we call [inaudible]
is a very famous book
that no longer exists.
It was produced by [inaudible] and
given as a gift to [inaudible].
And, it's changed a number
of hands and, ultimately,
ended up with a collector,
[inaudible] in Baltimore.
And, he began to tear it into
pieces and gave a few pieces
to Metropolitan Museum
and, subsequently,
it was sold piece by, page by page.
Before, of course, he did that,
two scholars, literary scholars
and art historian studied it.
And, there are limited editions
I have seen, I don't own it.
They were very expensive.
Limited editions of the original
[inaudible] page by page.
Some of it's color some of it's
black and white, which is a literary
and artistic study
over the [inaudible].
Just for you may know,
that, after that,
[inaudible] the art historian
was responsible for collecting
about half of the [inaudible]
paintings and exchanging it
with [inaudible] paintings
that [inaudible] had purchased
from a Museum of Contemporary
art in Iran.
They were part of a trilogy that
[inaudible] had done, three women,
two of them were in Iran.
And, there's two of them
were exchanged for about half
of these collections of the
[inaudible] and taken back to Iran.
So, no actually in Iran,
but, no more than half,
the other half are
scattered all over the place.
Now, this particular
painting is in the possession
of the [Inaudible] Foundation from
whom I have permission for my cover.
Now, I like this cover
for the following reason.
This is a famous encounter between
three court poets and [inaudible]
when [inaudible] had just spent a
lifetime collecting his stories,
both written and oral, [inaudible]
began to write his [inaudible].
I worked with the designer and
I [inaudible] you'll see here.
So, you'll see it here.
These are the three
court poets [inaudible].
They're having a picnic,
they're having a ball.
They're court poets.
They're very prominent
people and so far.
And suddenly, this
Ruffian [inaudible] appears
and says may I join your party.
They don't want to let
him join the party.
They're arrogant, they're
aristocrat, they're court poets.
They don't want to have
anything to do with [inaudible].
But, they want to devise a
polite way to tell him get lost.
And, they say, you know, we compose
a quatrain, three of us will come
with three [inaudible]
of the quatrain,
if you come with the fourth
quatrain, you can join us.
But, nasty that they
are they choose a word
to rhyme they're absolutely sure
that only three words
in Persian language.
And, there is no fourth word.
So, the first one [inaudible] says.
[ Foreign language spoken ]
Even the moon is not
as luminous as thy face
because they are sure there are
only three words in Persian that end
with shan as it must in poetry.
[ Foreign language spoken ]
Even the moon is not as
luminous as your face.
[Inaudible] the second one said.
[ Foreign language spoken ]
No flower is as pretty as thy face.
The third one says.
[ Foreign language spoken ]
Your eyelashes are so long
and piercing they pierce
through an armor.
And they turn to [inaudible]
and say okay now you
come with the fourth one.
And he says.
[ Foreign language spoken ]
Just like the dagger of Geeve
[assumed spelling] in the battle
with Pashan [assumed spelling].
They said who is Pashan?
Because, they'd never
heard of Pashan.
He says, well, can I join you?
[ Laughter ]
So, he joins them and tells
them who Pashan is because by
that time he had to spend a lifetime
collecting these magnificent stories
and writing [inaudible].
The subject of your [inaudible]
book, here, I'm interested
in this story because
it is the borderline
between the institutionalized
language of the court
and the fresh blood that comes from
somebody who's out in the field.
Now, this, as you may know,
between the [inaudible] scholars,
there's a huge battle between the
oral formulate scholars and those
who believe there's a literary
origin for the [inaudible]
for example and [inaudible]
are on the side
of the recent critical edition of
[inaudible] but they don't want
to have to hear about
oral formulated history.
Other equally [inaudible] scholars
Orval Davidson, Jay Clinton,
etcetera, they believe in
the oral formulated history.
My interest is, I mean, as a scholar
I tend more towards [inaudible]
that this is a literary and
poetic production rather
than an oral formulate.
But, I don't categorically
dismiss the possibility
of oral origins for
[inaudible] either.
This, by way of saying, that
by the time of the [inaudible]
in particular during whose
reign [inaudible] is composed,
Persian language has transmuted from
a signal or a sign or a signifier
of ethnicity is one of, into one
of logos languages it doesn't
make any difference who speaks it.
The third period, which I
identify with late [inaudible]
which is a much vaster empire,
and ultimately culminates
in the Mongolian Empire.
And, it's in the Mongolian Empire
that we have the absolute
masterpieces of Persian poetry.
[Inaudible] is in this period,
Rumi [assumed spelling]
is in this period.
The ethos logos has now
transmuted to efface.
Persian becomes a signifier
of efface.
There is a particular normativity or
ethical principle that is embedded
in the notion of language.
And, I argue, as a result, that,
when we come to the Mongol empire,
which was the vastest empire
on Planet Earth, okay,
much bigger than.
Can I say American Empire here?
Because I was told
don't talk politics.
British Empire, it was
even bigger than that.
[Inaudible] of the
Mongol Empire was Persian.
Okay. That is, if you
take, for example,
[inaudible] if you take
[inaudible] out of Mongol Empire,
you don't know anything much
about the Mongol Empire.
And, production of great
masterpieces, we habitually talk
about all the Mongol's came
and destroyed and so forth.
But, that is not really true.
If you look at the destruction about
1258, when [inaudible] is coming
from [inaudible] down towards
[inaudible] who is riding with him
to the right of his horse?
Is [inaudible], okay.
And, all the way from [inaudible]
to [inaudible] by the time they get
to [inaudible] there's a debate
between [inaudible] who's
a great astrophysicist
and a court astrologer
asked him what to do
with [inaudible] the last king.
The court astrologer
says don't kill him.
If you kill him, the
world will come to an end.
[Inaudible] says don't worry,
kill him, nothing will happen.
So, the debate goes on until
they get to [inaudible]
and [inaudible] offers a solution.
He wanted to be on the
good side of [inaudible]
for the reason why I
tell you in a minute.
He said, you know what we do,
we roll [inaudible] in a carpet
and we just keep rolling the carpet.
If we see something is
happening, we roll back the carpet.
But, if nothing is
happening, just roll.
And this is how [inaudible]
was killed in 1258.
At the camp of [inaudible]
[inaudible] to see what is he doing?
He's collecting bibliographers,
he's collecting [inaudible] makers,
and he's sending to collect
astrophysicists, mathematicians
and what have you, all of them.
And then, from there, from
[inaudible] to [inaudible]
and in [inaudible] establishes
the [inaudible] observatory.
That contemporary historians of
science such as George [Inaudible],
my own colleague at Columbia,
now argue, after a lifetime
of searching the scholarship,
that it is not the question
of whether Copernicus got
what they called [inaudible]
from [inaudible] but
how did he get it.
So, it's the question of tracing.
This, by way of saying
that, the establishment
of [inaudible] observatory generates
for us a more complicated
genealogy of libraries.
Where are the libraries
in medieval history?
The scholasticism that libraries
are usually in [inaudible]
and in mosks [assumed spelling],
[inaudible], as you know,
are established as law
schools, these are law schools,
these are not, even if you
want to study theology, and,
if the dominant theology
is [inaudible] theology
and you're interested
in [inaudible] theology,
you're really in trouble because,
in the times of endowment,
what school of law you
study is even stipulated,
let alone if you're
interested in theology.
Forget it, if you are
interested in philosophy,
it's a whole different trouble.
But, where do people
study philosophy?
You can't study it in [inaudible].
Okay. Here you meet another book
which is [inaudible]
the four [inaudible] 580
on Islamic calendar 450 in Islamic
calendar is a very important book
for the following reason.
[Inaudible] tells you that
every poet, every king,
every sultan needs a four
[inaudible] at his court.
What is a poet?
The origin of poetry,
as it is of you see it,
it is panegyrics for
the Royal Court.
You have magnificent
wonderful stories
of the perfidious merry
that court poets had.
And, one reason for rhyme
and rhythm is for people
to be able to memorize the poem.
We have a story of a court poet who
had such a great memory all he had
to do was to hear a poem once,
no matter how many lines of,
and he would know it by heart.
He had a wife who had to hear twice,
and she would know it by heart.
He had a son who had
to hear it three times,
he would know it by heart.
And, they had a servant who had
to hear it four times
to know it by heart.
So, any poet who came to the
court and said, Your Majesty,
I have composed a new panegyrics
for you 355 lines, I will recite it.
The court poet would get up
and say Your Majesty his
lines is actually my poem
because he had heard it
once, he would recite it.
Afterward he said, [inaudible]
my wife knows it too.
[ Laughter ]
Because, by then, she
had heard it twice.
She would recite it.
[Inaudible] my son knows it too.
The second function
is the astrologer.
And, the connection, obviously,
because the king wants to know
when to invade and when not to
invade and that sort of thing.
So, that is the origin of
poetry within the court,
the origin of astrology-astronomy
within the court.
The third functionary is
medicine, a physician because,
they came came with, you
know, had all sorts of issues
that needs to be attended to.
But, immediately related
to medicine is philosophy.
If you, obviously know, what
are the two famous books?
[Inaudible] and [Inaudible].
[Inaudible] is medicine,
[inaudible] is philosophy.
And, fourth is what they call
[inaudible] which is described
within the court whether it
is for historical references
or for writing the
history or what have you.
So, the court and the mosk, as a
result, are the two locus classicus
of production of knowledge,
and as a result, libraries.
Now, by the time we get to a text
like [inaudible] the famous
[inaudible] book seller as it were,
you realize that, in the main of
humanism that you also have books
like [inaudible] or [inaudible]
they tell you [inaudible] what sort
of sciences they need to know.
That, already in the field of
humanism, and this is the point
that [inaudible] was referring to,
you need to have a knowledge of all
of them or your not an expert.
You know theology but
you're not a theologian.
You know [inaudible] but
you're not a [inaudible].
You know philosophy but
you're not a philosopher.
All of them inform your
production of literary humanism.
To make a jump to the fourth, that
is, if you follow me from Etmos,
to Logos, to Efface, the fourth
phase, I argue, is in the aftermath
of the collapse of the three
last major Islamic empires,
the Mughals in the east,
the Safavids in the center,
and the Ottomans in the west.
These are the three last Muslim
Empires before the onslaught
of European colonialism
and the emergence of,
what I call the fourth
phase in the transmutation
of Persian as a signifier.
Now, if we do that, the problem
that we usually encounter,
say [inaudible] is [inaudible]
in Afghan or a Persian or a Turk?
He was born [inaudible]
traveled through Iran
and he lived in [inaudible].
But, he wrote most of
his work in Persian.
My argument is that these are all
post-colonial nation formations
that have nothing to do
with the imperial context
of their production.
It is ludicrous to think that
[inaudible] belongs to me.
I was born in the southern part of
Iran and doesn't belong to somebody
who was born in [inaudible]
who is just, you know,
miles away from where
it was actually written.
So, you have to expand the
conceptual and geographical horizon,
think of the [inaudible]
empire, which was the location
of where [inaudible] was
produced, and, as a result,
Afghans have as much claim
on it as the Iranians do
and as [inaudible] do because
that's within the empire.
So, this puts me in odds with those
who call [inaudible] national epic
because it is not national epic.
As any epic, it belongs
to an empire.
Epics and empires go together.
And second, the same thing is with
[inaudible] whoever, all this,
sort of post-colonial,
national claims,
you want it all for yourself.
Yes, he lived in Ottoman, in
[inaudible] but he wrote in Persian.
But then, if Persian becomes
the unit, what about [inaudible]
who wrote most of his work in
Arabic, but he never much Iran,
sort of contemporary, you know?
None of these issues
becomes an issue if we begin
to think historically, as we
must within the imperial context.
The fourth period which is the
period that comes after the collapse
of these three Muslim empires,
is derived of publican
space, publican space.
And, my argument is that,
usually, what happens with poets
from one court become out of
someone's courts, they look who's
in power, they go to
into [inaudible] courts.
They come out of the
[inaudible] courts.
Where do they go?
They go to the [inaudible] courts.
They come out of the Safavid courts.
Who is the next empire?
When the Safavids come
to power in Iran,
they're not interested in poetry.
They're interested in
Shea Scholasticism.
Sheasum [assumed spelling]
becomes the ideology
of the dominate class as it were.
So, what do Persian poets do?
They just migrate to
India to the Mughal court.
We have exports of Shea scholars
from Ghibelline [assumed spelling]
into Iran we have famous stories
that they didn't speak
a word of Persian.
They just got on the
donkeys in Ghibelline
and all they knew is [inaudible].
Where is [inaudible]?
And they got themselves
to [inaudible]
and they were [inaudible].
And, meanwhile, we have a migration
of Persian poets all the way
to the [inaudible] court.
Here, to me, many literary
historians say aren't these Indians
cute, look how lovely
they speak Persian.
It's their language.
The same way that you cannot tell
[inaudible] how cute he's Persian
and he speaks so beautiful
Arabic, it was the language,
[inaudible] at the time the
same was Persian in India.
As a result, this puts me at
odds with the so called Indian,
[inaudible] the Indian style
which is usually treated
in literary geography as something
weird and a little bit odd
when the Indians speak Persian.
No, it is just a style
like any other style.
And, in fact, a key figure
like [inaudible] becomes far
more important in Central Asia
than after he had his hey day
in the [inaudible] environment.
He has a revival, actually,
in Central Asia.
So, as a result, we have no
problem accommodating rise
of historiography rise
in [inaudible] India,
magnificent poetry arose, philosophy
that are translations of, sort of,
[inaudible] form Arabic into
Persian done in Mughal period
that are impeccable in
terms of the language.
There's nothing odd.
But, what happens afterward
has to do
with the collapse of these empires.
And, the way that I put it
allegorically is the proverbial
poet, Persian poet, comes
out of that Mughal court,
comes out of the Safavid court,
comes out of that Ottoman court,
but there's no more dynasty to go to
because now the dominant dynasties,
quote unquote, are British.
They're no longer Persian.
So, where does the poet go?
[ Silence ]
Cut. There is a great poet of the
constitutional period, [inaudible].
He says, in a piece, that,
before I use the word
of Vacan [assumed spelling] nation,
one of out ten Iranians didn't
know what [inaudible] is.
That is absolutely right
because Vacan, the way I see it,
is the public sphere,
what [inaudible] much
later calls public sphere.
Now, the poet has created
in order to go occupy it
because there no longer is
a court to go to that court
and compose a poem and [inaudible].
As we are coming towards the end
of the exhibition [inaudible]
was showing me, you know,
people like [inaudible] for example,
[inaudible] is where, [inaudible] is
in Berlin when he writes his
[inaudible] Once Upon a Time.
He's no longer working at a court.
He's the son of [inaudible]
revolutionary as it were.
And, many of the other literary
scholars [inaudible] etcetera,
they all have exited the court.
The court is no longer a site
of the literary production,
yet entered the public.
Now, here is the period that we have
the simplification of Persian prose,
the introduction of printing
machine, [inaudible] from London,
he sells, he had a [inaudible].
He sells it and buys a
second hand printing machine
that he brings [inaudible].
We had printing machine in
[inaudible] before that but only
for [inaudible] purposes.
Christian missionaries had it.
But, [inaudible] from London
brings the first printing machine.
His own travel log is the first
indication of simplification
of Persian prose for
public purposes.
No longer it is for court.
It is to convince people
of one thing or another.
And, it is with that prose
and that printing machine
that he publishes the
first newspaper.
And, he calls it [inaudible],
newspaper translated from English.
Simplification of Persian prose,
introduction of printing machine,
publication of the first newspapers,
etcetera, all become the indices
of the formation of the public
sphere upon which the poets,
stylists, historians, etcetera
begin to write for the public.
Okay. This culminates in
the constitution revolution
of 1906, 1911 and has continued.
Now, you an, just to conclude, you
can look at the contemporary history
of Iran from the [inaudible]
to the Islamic Republic.
But the [inaudible] is when
[inaudible] and the court tries
to control the public sphere,
or define the public sphere.
In the aftermath of the revolution
in 1979, it is the [inaudible]
that wants to control
the public sphere.
And, all of these upheavals
that you have seen
since the constitutional
revolution nationalization
of Iranian [inaudible] formation
of [inaudible] party all the way
until the green movement,
most recently the green movement
is the revolt of that public space,
okay, as a reality [inaudible]
against the attempted control,
whether it is by the court
or by the [inaudible]
to define the terms
of the public sphere.
And, in the exhibition itself,
you see magnificent examples,
most recent loss, now we
are mourning, is [inaudible]
as paramount example of a poet
who saw herself belonging to now.
She said my people, my nation,
whatever it is, but, in the language
that I develop here
is the public sphere.
Okay. You don't receive
your salary anymore
from the [inaudible]
or from the court.
That is the context that, in
a way, gives you a history
of Persian literary humanism but as
[inaudible] said is a [inaudible]
on that ye, that ye [inaudible]
Adam, but in Persian we add this ye
to [inaudible] we call it, also
in Arabic, that makes it fragile
and susceptible and fixed.
And that, plus the
fact that, in Arabic,
we don't have gender
specific pronouns, okay,
when we say [inaudible] as well as
all the magnificent Persian poetry,
you don't know whether it's a he or
a she or a what, is perfect Persian,
is add to the vulnerability
undecidability
of the knowing subject which, to
me, is the definition of humanism.
Thank you.
[ Applause ]
[ Silence ]
>> Dr. Dabashi thank
you for a very, very,
very fascinating subject
and lecture.
It was very wonderful.
I'm going to ask people to
stand up and ask questions.
We are recording the lecture.
Be aware that, if you stand up and
ask a question, you will be recorded
and you're giving us permission to,
subsequently, show
you on our website.
Thank you.
Feel free to get up and
ask any questions you have.
Go ahead Mary-Jane.
>> Mary-Jane Deeb: Again, thank
you very, very much Dr. Dabashi.
It was fascinating,
absolutely fascinating.
Now, my question is [inaudible] what
was the initiative between the poets
in court and the public sphere?
I mean [inaudible] or was it,
or did that come [inaudible]?
>> Dr. Hamid Dabashi: Okay.
Excellent question.
In this technical sense,
there is no public sphere.
You have classes, you have the
courtiers, you have the merchants,
you have the [inaudible],
there are all sorts of this.
But, one function of poetry, I
argue in this book, is actually for,
quote unquote, state
propaganda, because if a poem,
a panegyric [inaudible] is composed
so brilliantly and so compellingly,
people will memorize it and start
reciting it out in the street
and it becomes a mechanism
of the justification
and legitimacy of the monarch.
So, in the time, at the
time of the [inaudible]
and many dynasties after, we still
cannot talk about public sphere
in this technical sense, which
is introduced for the first time
by [inaudible] the book
that he talks about,
the Structural Transformation
of [inaudible] public efface
in the case of Europe
but now we can extend it.
We can talk about classes.
We can talk about merchants.
We can talk about [inaudible]
within the [inaudible]
for example [inaudible]
are far more important
than say the juridical
establishment.
So, we need to make a number
of critical conceptual corrections
before we can see what are the
actual influences.
But the fact that panegyric
[inaudible] is the classical form
of poetry both in Arabic and in
Persian and it develops in court
for which the poet receives salary.
And then, from the early part
of [inaudible] we call it
[inaudible] eventually,
[inaudible] emerges, comes
in reality unto itself.
And, all other shorter forms
of poetry say courtering
[assumed spelling] develops.
But, courtering is more whisperish.
That's why both in the case
of [inaudible] and in the case
of [inaudible] you have subversive
poems that are in courtering
because they're very quick, okay.
You know, in Arabic we
have two [inaudible],
one is called [inaudible]
one is called [inaudible].
[Inaudible] comes from
sitting, okay, it's long enough
that you have to sit to listen.
[Inaudible] comes from standing.
So, you can, it's like a joke, I
can tell you while we are walking.
Courtering, which is very, in
terms of Arabic and Persian,
in Arabic they call it [inaudible]
in Persian they call it [inaudible].
So, it's exchanged.
It's very quick and very
whisperish and it's very, like,
tweet, you know, it's tweeting.
It's, the medieval version
of tweeting in so many words.
And so, you have to, in my opinion,
you have to begin with [inaudible]
as the classical thing and then see
where how does [inaudible] emerge
or how does [inaudible]
emerge, etcetera in order
to have a more genre related
conception of the Arabic
and Persian and Turkish poets.
[ Inaudible ]
Okay. The question has to do with
the leadership of these poems.
Leadership, as you know, is
not contingent on literacy.
Okay. It is very important
for us to know
that literacy is a professional
qualification, has nothing to do.
So, when you say oh in
the medieval period,
women were not literate,
nobody was literate.
It's not just women
were not literate.
And, to the degree that literacy
was a professional qualification,
women also were literate.
We know it in the case of
[inaudible] that once one
of his students was
about to marry one of,
hist daughter and didn't
have a dowry.
So, [inaudible] tells in the
end, [inaudible] tells one
of his students in such and
such court, there's a woman
who teaches the women of the
court how to read and write.
Go and tell her to put
together some of their jewelry
to bring us gift for this young.
So, we know that this woman
was a [inaudible] at the court,
was a professional teacher.
As a result, her literacy was part
of her professional qualification.
So, if we divorce the audience,
the readership, as it were,
from literacy, then we have, then
we know another function of rhythm
and rhyme is to be
for it to be memorized
without you know you're
able to read it.
I am, ladies and gentlemen,
a product of that kind
of quote unquote literacy.
My mother could not read and write.
But, she knew miles
of poetry by heart.
And, she would have poetry,
[inaudible] that [inaudible]
was drinking wine one day
and then the wind blows
and the thing falls down
and he turns to God and says.
[ Foreign language spoken ]
I drink and you get drunk.
And, God gets angry and,
sort of, smittens him.
And, he apologizes.
You see, I still remember
her voice in my ears.
[ Foreign language spoken ]
Who hasn't done wrong?
Tell me, etcetera.
And God forgives him and so forth.
So, how did she, because she was
the eldest daughter of a couple
who came from a provincial town.
So, all my aunts were put to
school and knew, were literate.
But not my mother.
But, my mother knew more poetry
than they did put together.
Why? Because of this tradition
that has, divorces literacy
from knowledge of poetry
and so forth.
And, it's not just poetry,
also other subjects.
So, that expands the main of
readership, so see, readership,
quote unquote, because you have to
bring orality into it far beyond
who can actually read them.
So, the scarcity of manuscripts,
okay, again I know this from,
[inaudible] was telling me once,
the story of his father, that,
he could perform [inaudible] in
five different ways depending
on who was his audience which
is the same way we have it
in Egypt there's something
called [inaudible].
Okay, [inaudible] also
reperformed depending
to whom the performer is
performing can add any number
of additional issues.
That expands the meaning, reception
rather than readership in our class.
[ Inaudible ]
Yeah absolutely.
The question is, this corridor
that I told you, the insider
and the outsider, the
insider, I mean,
these three court poets
[inaudible], they're insiders.
They're great performers,
you know, innovators.
Whereas [inaudible] not just
the knowledge of his vocabulary
but his knowledge of his
worldliness that is important.
One of his, I think, Dick
Davis has done a service
to Persian literature
beyond anybody.
But, one of the problems that
I have with my dear friend
and distinguished colleague, Dick
Davis, translation of [inaudible] is
that he dispenses with this
early parts of every poem
with which we see [inaudible]
reflecting on the nature of poetry
and on the nature of the particular
story that he's about to tell you.
We are in the presence of a thinker.
But, when you dispense with all this
and just go for the story, I mean,
his [inaudible] begins
with [inaudible].
And, he does it impeccably.
He's the best translation ever.
I mean, the world of [inaudible]
scholars is immensely indebted
to Dick Davis.
But, you need to have this
worldliness, this outsider, okay,
has to do with the fact that
is the way he tells the story
of [inaudible] for example, okay,
or the way he tells [inaudible].
I have written and I have
demonstrated chapter and verse,
that, if you read, for example,
[inaudible] attentively,
[inaudible] is interested.
[Inaudible] is young, [inaudible] is
pretty, is vivacious, is attractive.
And, he makes sure that you
know the erotic elements
in the first encounter
between [inaudible] and.
This is his worldliness
of [inaudible], this
is his worldliness.
Or, the famous battle
when [inaudible].
In a very dramatic moment,
as [inaudible] is about,
as [inaudible] is about to
kill his own son, [inaudible].
So, all the commotion suddenly in
[inaudible] narrative, freezes.
He pulls back and he
looks that [inaudible] is
about to kill [inaudible]
his own son,
and he asks in three glorious lines,
how come he doesn't
recognize his own son?
[ Foreign language spoken ]
None of them, their emotions
begin to bubble for [inaudible].
So, he spends two or three lines,
depending on, I mean the thing
about [inaudible] scholars, they
make a whole production of a theory,
then [inaudible] is
not in the original.
I don't care.
Even if [inaudible] didn't
compose it, he should have.
Then he pulls, he resumes this story
his dad comes down and he kills.
You see, precisely
those moments have to do
with being not being a court poet.
[ Inaudible ]
Very good.
Very good.
Listen, the fact, the question
has to do with the transformation
of Persian language into a
security language and so forth.
We are on this side of
the street and they're
on that side of the street.
On this side of the street,
[inaudible] gave a magnificent tour
of a magnificent exhibition.
I mean, he had to, I was
just telling, in two years,
put together his resource goal,
you know, collect money, etcetera.
But, people who care about,
who walk through this library,
come to this library, go
through that exhibition,
they won't have it conceptional
or listen through that video
to what I have to say or the
scholarship that is generated.
They have a different conception
of Persian language than people
out there, the first thing I told
Nas, who was graciously picking me
up from the airport is, Library of
Congress, I hope the congressmen,
women, come to Congress Library
and read some of this book.
It has to do with the
heart of the empire.
Okay. I could not produce this
book if I had stayed in Iran.
Both the English language
and the carefree,
the fact that I am protected
by my university allows me
to think what is not
thinkable there, not that,
there are greatest scholars
of Persian language
and literature in Iran.
But, this is part of the
paradox of empires, all empires.
And, the fact that I delivered
it in, have delivered it
in English, not in Persian.
You follow?
And, people, if I were to
deliver this very talk in Persian,
I will have difficulty because
its conceptual categories
and theoretical perspectives in
the formation of that version
of knowledge that you
said is not contingent
on Persian as a security language.
Okay. I just began by
saying this is a result
of my conversation
which George Makdisi.
George Makdisi was a professor
at University of Pennsylvania.
Do you follow?
So, there is a genealogy of
scholarship and university apparatus
that brings me here but that
this system has also enabled.
This is the central issue
that needs to be kept in mind,
that is not allowed
on the [inaudible].
Do you follow?
I am, for example, far more
translated into Turkish
and Arabic than I am into Persian.
Okay. It's not only in
the Library of Congress
that they tell me don't
talk politics.
I'm not even translated
into Persian my own,
all the time or the whole language.
But, this, again, I don't say it
begrudgingly, I say it gratefully,
do you follow, that this is
the paradox of all empires
and we are living one
particular paradoxical empire.
[ Applause ]
>> This has been a presentation
of the Library of Congress.
Visit us at loc.gov.
[ Silence ]