>> From the Library of Congress in Washington, DC. >> Good morning. Secretary Albright, members of Congress, distinguished guests; I am Jane McAuliffe, Director of the John W. Kluge Center. On behalf of the Library of Congress, it is my pleasure to welcome you this morning to a wonderful collaboration undertaken by the Kluge Center, the Embassy of the Czech Republic and Florida International University. A collaboration to honor the life and legacy of poet, playwright, human rights advocate, and former president of the Czech Republic, Vaclav Havel, and to commemorate the 25th anniversary of the Velvet Revolution. We are pleased and honored to have with us this morning Mr. Lubomir Janecka, the sculptor of the bust of Vaclav Havel that will be unveiled at the U.S. Capitol this afternoon. As usual, before we begin, please take a moment to silence your mobile phones and electronic devices so that they don't interfere with our speakers. I'll also make you aware that this event is being recorded for placement on the Library of Congress website. To initiate our program, we are pleased to present a short video by Czech filmmaker, screenwriter and director, Petr Jancarek. Jancarek's career spans journalism, film and humanitarian work. And he collaborated with Vaclav Havel in the final decade of Havel's life. This short film has been created especially for this occasion. It reflects on the life's work of this great man. [ Music ] [ Speaking in Foreign Language ] [ Music ] [ Speaking in Foreign Language ] [ Music ] [ Speaking in Foreign Language ] [ Music ] >> But what can I say? Very few actors can unravel their audiences as quickly as President Havel did with Congress. I thought it was wonderful. [ Music ] [ Speaking in Foreign Language ] [ Music ] [ Speaking in Foreign Language ] [ Music ] >> I think there are very few people in the world I can think of who have had the journey that Havel has had from stage technician to playwright to dissident to successful dissident to politician to president to statesman and then back to being an intellectual, being a statesman and an intellectual. And I think it's perhaps the greatest testament to him is that he has been successful in every role on his own terms. Havel is unique to me perhaps mostly because through this entire journey, he was able to maintain his humanistic core, his liberal core. [ Music ] >> His vision as a playwright, I think it made him a very good president because he was able to not just understand how to articulate himself, how to express himself, but to the social implications of everything from what kind of cutlery you use on the table to you know, how to stage an anniversary so that people remember the events. You know, this takes the mind of a playwright. It takes someone with a broader vision. [ Music ] >> What I do know is that he's a kind person. And I didn't know much about -- [inaudible] rather have a direct experience of kindness in his life but I just always felt that in his own way, he was a benign and kind person. So it was something of a miracle that he ended up as president of anything. [ Music ] >> I think we need the whole world, I think this planet; I think we need such person from time to time. Their voice and their active role for promotion of making correction of some of these wrong habit that I can report. [ Music ] >> Your life, it's something really very important where you've become the source of inspiration. [ Music ] >> Once I told him, I said, "I think you made a mistake to become president. When you were not president, you were the most popular person in Czechoslovakia or the Czech Republic. He's the number one with total allegiance, total respect from your entire people. Once you become a political figure, you will have adversaries, maybe even enemies. Why did you do that?" And he said, "Look, I had to do it for the country. I'm Czech and I had to do it for my people and my country and I understand it." [ Music ] >> The Librarian of Congress, Dr. James Billington deeply regrets that he cannot be with us this morning but he has sent some remarks and I will read them now. It is an extraordinary pleasure and privilege for the Library of Congress to be taking part with our Czech friends in this commemoration of Vaclav Havel and the 25th anniversary of the historic Velvet Revolution. Havel was the central moral force within the peaceful transformation of a great people into freedom. And he became an ecumenical spokesman for human rights throughout the world. He has been a prisoner before he became president and his conscience reached across borderlines and cultures in our global era. On his first presidential visit to the United States, I was privileged to turn over to our House and Senate leaders who in turn, gifted to President Havel, the original Czech Declaration of Independence of 1918 which had been in the safekeeping of the Library of Congress and was in many ways, modeled on the American Declaration of Independence. Vaclav Havel had a unique connection with the Library of Congress. He twice became a scholar in residence at the Library's John W. Kluge Center conducting research on human rights and authoring both his memoir and his final play. He donated to the Library audio recordings of his plays voiced in his own words as well as literary works autographed in his own hand. We are honored to host this symposium on an unforgettable humanistic hero of our times. I am particularly sorry not to be able to be with you here this morning but I look forward to being with you when President Havel's bust is unveiled in the halls of the U.S. Capitol. I would now like to introduce and to welcome the Minister of Culture of the Czech Republic, Dr. Daniel Herman, who will make some opening remarks. Minister Herman formerly served as spokesman for Czech's Bishop Conference and is Director of the Institute for the study of totalitarian regimes. He was elected a Member of Parliament in 2013. May I welcome to the podium, Minister Herman. [ Applause ] [ Background Sounds ] >> Dear [inaudible] distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen. It's for me a great pleasure and honor to greet you here. I think that it's really a great moment, 25 years ago, thanks to Vaclav Havel, we became a part of the free world. I will tell you a popular joke from the communist time. A Czechoslovak president met with the American president together and they talked to each other. A Czechoslovak leader said, "In our country, we have freedom of expression." And his American colleagues replied, "Okay and we also have freedom after expression." [ Laughter ] [ Applause ] And that tells all. I think we find that a quarter century after collapse of the communist regime, there are still some deep marks in the way we think. And even after the Velvet Revolution, I understood in the better way a great biblical parable of Exodus, of the Jews from Egypt of pharaohs. Egypt was left by the generation of slaves and into the Promised Land and to the new generation of free-thinking people. Through or during this journey through the desert, came to a generation changed and this journey through the desert took 40 years under the leadership of Moses. And I think that 25 years after, we are somewhere in the middle. It takes time. And accordingly, the role of Moses more or less three-and-a-half thousand years ago was very similar to the role of Vaclav Havel in our modern history. And it's a great pleasure for me that we can be here now and realized that or we are witnessing really that the great legacy of Vaclav Havel is being fulfilled now in this moment. It's really great even for myself. I am happy to deliver my message to a free country and feel that Vaclav Havel is here with us today. Thank you. [ Applause ] >> Thank you, Minister Herman. We're delighted and honored to be able to present a video message from the 43rd President of the United States, President George W. Bush. >> I'm delighted to congratulate the Czech people on the 25th anniversary of the Velvet Revolution. During my presidency, I had the privilege to get to know Vaclav Havel, the great playwright and former prisoner of conscience who became President of the Czech Republic. My friend helped bring about the return of freedom to his people and led his nation through a remarkable transformation to a vibrant democracy. As democracy pushes further into every corner of the world, it does so on the back of Vaclav Havel's strong example of intellectual integrity and his refusal to be intimidated by tyranny. His legacy will continue to shape mankind's continuing journey toward liberty and dignity for all. Thank you. [ Applause ] >> I am very pleased to introduce Ivan Havel, the brother of Vaclav Havel. A scholar and political activist, Ivan Havel is presently Director of the Center for the Theoretical Study affiliated with Charles University and the Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic. He is the Editor-in-Chief of the scientific journal, The Universe and a member of the Academia Europea, Mr. Havel. [ Applause ] [ Background Sounds ] >> Ladies and gentlemen, it is my great pleasure that I was allowed to address you. The only problem that I do not see you at all because the lights [laughter] but I imagine that the hall is full of people who are interested in my brother [laughter] and I would like to remind that Moses had also a brother. [ Laughter ] [ Applause ] Of course, you know his name was Aaron [laughter]. I lived with my brother actually all his life. Sometimes, very closely because when we were children, we play together also. So I know his moods, his times when he was upset, times when he was happy, everything and a lot of people ask me how he would feel if he were here with us this -- today and these days of the anniversary. And the only thing I can answer is that and I know him, he would not be too much concerned with the official speeches and other events. But he would look from some small absurdity somewhere in corner and amplify it and nicely find in it a symbol of something very important and interesting. I wish you an interest in the debate which will follow and I would like to come again sometimes and talk to you again. [ Laughter ] [ Applause ] >> As we turn to the panel discussions planned for this morning, may I invite our first set of distinguished panelists up to the stage? They will speak about the political importance of Vaclav Havel and I will say a few words about each one of them. [ Background Sounds ] Former U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright served in that position from 1997 to 2001, the first woman in the United States history to be named Secretary of State. Secretary Albright was born in Prague, Czechoslovakia and immigrated to the United States with her family in 1948. She became a U.S. citizen in 1957 and rose to prominence with a distinguished academic and political career before being appointed Ambassador to the United Nations by President Clinton and then Secretary of State. U.S. Senator John McCain is the senior senator from the State of Arizona. Senator McCain entered the U.S. Naval Academy in June 1954 and served in the U.S. Navy until 1981. He was elected to the House of Representatives from Arizona in 1982 and elected to the United States Senate in 1986. He is a member and former ranking member of the Senate Committee on Armed Services, member and former chairman of the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, member of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, and member of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. The conversation will be moderated by Michael Zantovsky, Ambassador of the Czech Republic to the United Kingdom and former Ambassador of the Czech Republic to the United States. Ambassador Zantovsky formally served as President Havel's Press Secretary and Political Director. We'll allot a few, we will allot a few moments for questions at the end of the conversation so index cards and pencils will be distributed. Please write your question and hand it to one of the ushers and we'll address as many of those questions as we are able to in the time available to us. Thank you. >> Michael Zantovsky: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. It's a great honor and pleasure for me to be here with two such distinguished panelists. The moment I learned that I am to moderate a debate between two of my favorite politicians but also quite vocal politicians, I realized I might be in trouble so I took the seat nearest to the exit. [ Laughter ] [ Applause ] We are to debate the political legacy of Vaclav Havel and they are, I will go through several points and then I will largely leave it to the panelists to choose which of them they want to debate or if they want to debate different points. Some of them are fairly obvious. Of course, the legacy of Vaclav Havel starts from his defense of human rights and but he was not the first politician or dissident who thought about human rights and defending them, of course. But he was one of the first to realize the strategic role of human rights in the principle that he advocated of living in truth, he realized that most authoritarian and totalitarian regimes depend on the society living a lie out of fear, out of pressure and oppression. And that the moment an individual resists living in a lie and simply withdraws his ritual support for the regime and stands up in defense of his individual rights, the whole structure of the regime is undermined. The second principle I would mention is the principle of individual and shared responsibility for the fate not of just of our immediate surrounding but of the society in general outside our own country and around the world. The third quite important principle that Havel advocated was the inadmissibility of appeasing the evil. He felt very strongly about that and it's in a way a corollary to the famous Edmund Burke's dictum that you know, all it takes for the evil to triumph is for the good people to do nothing. And Havel was decisively refusing to do nothing about evil. Now, the less conspicuous points I would mention is, you know, Havel felt that humor in politics is a very important thing. And there are, I'm afraid, too few politicians to go by that and there should be more. Also defense of language against the contamination of political language of empty phrases and words, et cetera, et cetera was something he felt strongly about in his essay "Words about Words" and others. And last but not least, he advocated the politics of hope but it's not the same kind of hope that many politicians talk about. He made it explicit that for him, hope was not a belief that something will turn out well but the belief that something is meaningful regardless of how it turns out. So that's the moral core of his politics and I will leave it at that and we will start with the lady, Madeleine. >> Madeleine Albright: Well, thank you and I'm delighted to be here and on a personal note, I'd like to thank the Library of Congress. I wrote my dissertation on the role of the Czechoslovak press in 1968 during the Prague Spring. And none of that could have happened if it hadn't been for the fantastic Slavic collection here and they had all the newspapers so I spent an awful lot of time here. And this is a great institution. Thank you very much for hosting us. There are so many parts of President Havel's legacy that I think really do need to be examined not only in terms of what it did at the time but its relevance to us today. You may wonder what we have in common. We have -- [ Laughter ] Many things but I think the way that we started out, our friendship was actually at those elections that in this video they talked about when President Havel said that the next thing had to be elections. And Senator McCain and I were in Prague for that incredible time, and we were with everybody in the Lucerna singing "We Shall Overcome" and that is a permanent link for us. And we are great friends and I think that that is something that really linked us. I think that the part that is so important in any number of things, Michael, that you said, "one needs to examine." But I do think the issue of the role of individual and collective responsibility because we, at the time, worked and all through his writings, he had talked about the fact that you couldn't just be -- he talked about the power of the powerless and that people who felt that they didn't have power actually did. If they exercised their individual responsibility and understood their role within the collective and that each person had a way of making a difference if they told the truth. And I think that that is something that we have to recognize at this point and also the responsibility of citizens to each other and to their country. And so that is a message that not only certainly resounded at the time but I think is something very specific today that we both know, we all know, in terms of how one as a responsible citizen acts within a democratic society. >> Michael Zantovsky: John? >> Sen. John McCain: Well, first of all, could I also thank the Library of Congress but also I'm a great admirer of Secretary Madeleine Albright. To me, she epitomizes many things about America including people who have come to this country fleeing the conditions as they existed and becoming the first female Secretary of State and did a hell lot better than most males did. [ Laughter ] [ Applause ] >> Madeleine Albright: I think you actually voted for me. >> Sen. John McCain: Absolutely [laughter]. And as Madeleine mentioned, that evening of the election was one of those moments that you just feel so fortunate to be alive and to be there. It was electric, the people jammed in there with -- and also, by the way, I might point out the great affection and respect and recognition that they had for Madeleine who was there that night. So -- and by the way, she happens to be the chair of a very important organization the national, NDI and I happen to chair the IRI and we work a lot together in human rights in the tradition of President Havel is what we have pursued together. Just a couple of comments that -- from my perspective. One was that I so much admired his strength and courage well in a prison. As you know, I was an involuntary guest of the North Vietnamese for some time. >> Madeleine Albright: Yeah. [ Laughter ] >> Sen. John McCain: But it was very different because we were military people and we believed that sooner or later, the conflict was going to end and it was very likely that we would return to our country. Vaclav Havel had no assurance of that when he was thrown into the Gulag. He had no belief or foundation that he had hope for his country and hope for some day that they would achieve freedom. But certainly, it wasn't apparent when he was incarcerated, and interrogated, and mistreated and yet, he came out of that much stronger than when he went in. And I just like to make one other comment also and that is that frankly, it is very important for us to celebrate this anniversary because I'm very disturbed about the trend in some countries in Eastern Europe including frankly the Czech Republic. Some of the things that have been said about Russia, some realignment that's taking place, I'm very worried. It's time that we all went back to those principles and those guiding pursuit of democracy in free and open societies. I look at Hungary today. It's very disturbing. I look at some of the statements by the President of the Czech Republic. I look at some of the things that are going on there and there seems to be some kind of realignment or accommodation with Vladimir Putin who is practicing the tsarist ambitions of restoration of the Russian Empire and influence in that region of the world. So I think this is a really opportune time not only to celebrate the legacy of Vaclav Havel but we ought to start paying attention to what's going on in some of these countries particularly in Eastern Europe and those that are bordering Russia not only because of the threat that Vladimir Putin poses to them. I'm particularly talking about the Baltics and Moldova and his continued dismemberment of Ukraine but I'm also talking about accomodationism that I see taking place in some of these other countries. So it might be worthwhile for all of us to reaffirm our belief and our commitment to the principles that nobody epitomized in a more emphatic and historic fashion than Vaclav Havel. Well -- [ Applause ] >> Michael Zantovsky: Why am I not surprised that you went right for the jugular and -- [ Laughter ] >> Sen. John McCain: But could I also mention one of the great experiences anyone can have in the world is to walk across the Charles Bridge at sunset. That is one of the world's -- [ Applause ] That anyone can have anywhere on earth. >> Michael Zantovsky: I agree with that and [laughter] -- and I believe that you know, we all know what you've been talking about and many people have been commenting on this lately and thinking about it lately. But let me pose one question. How much of that is that the countries in question are really thinking about realignment, and how much comes from the fearing of being vulnerable, of being left out on a limb of the western unity not being what it once was, of the Atlantic bond fraying at the edges and what can we collectively do to get back to where we want to really be? >> Madeleine Albright: Well, I'm very glad that we are looking at the larger picture here. Let me just say and Senator McCain mentioned this obviously our connection with the National Endowment for Democracy. Carl Gershman is here and these two institutes that we operate and I think that the thing that we have learned is that democracy is not an event. It's a process. And it takes a long time. We have been in this country in existence for quite a long time and I think there are a few people out there that are somewhat critical of what is going on here. I, when I've been abroad, people have said, "So what's the essence of democracy?" And I said, "It's compromise." And they said, "Really, like you guys?" So [laughter] I think we have some lessons also. But I do think that what is important to think about and I obviously, now that I'm not a diplomat, is that I'm a political scientist and I have studied changes in political systems in both as an academic and as a practitioner and I think it's a lot harder than people thought. And we were all there during the euphoria and there are not a lot of countries that have the possibility of having somebody like Vaclav Havel as president. He really was such a change in every single way and we'll talk more about that. But then, I think it came down to the hard work of how democracy works and what is the relationship between political and economic development and how do people feel comfortable in the country that it exists? And how do political parties work and how do people organize their voices in order to make sure that change is going on? So I think that in all the countries in Central and Eastern Europe, there really has been the facing the reality of how difficult it is to run a country in a way where people are feeling responsible to each other and yet exercising their individuality and their rights as individuals. I have to say that I am troubled by any number of things that have been happening in Europe. A lot of people think that Americans didn't want a strong European Union. Wrong, we wanted a strong European Union as a partner in order to deal because we had more in common with each other than anybody else in order to deal with the issues of the rest of the world and do it in a partnership. The European Union operates on one leg, if at all, and part of the problem is how that works and what is the role of the countries within it. And we could spend a lot of time on that. >> Michael Zantovsky: The [inaudible]. >> Madeleine Albright: I do know that what happened is because a lot of people came to me were saying, "Why is the United States now paying attention to Asia and not paying attention to Europe because we need you?" And I would say to them, "We actually thought you were going to be -- you're no longer the problem. You are the solution." And I think that there is kind of mutual disappointment in terms of how we are dealing with each other. I agree with the Senator in terms of what is going on in some of the countries, real disappointment. You and I have been to Ukraine. We've been to any number of places and I think people keep looking for how we can fix this, who is responsible, how does democracy work? And I think that's where the ongoing work comes and I do think that the 25th anniversary provides a remarkable opportunity to kind of renew our vows and try to figure out how to help each other get through this very difficult period. >> Michael Zantovsky: Thank you. >> Sen. John McCain: Well, I agree with everything that Madeleine said but I think we may be ignoring the elephant in the room or the bear in the room [laughter]. And that is Vladimir Putin who has made -- it's not disguised in the slightest his ambition to the restoration of [inaudible] Russia or that old tsarist word is, and it has got countries in the region particularly our Baltic friends most importantly Moldova very nervous. We see, we are watching for the first time since the end of World War II, the dismembering of a European country. And what is the United States response? When I tell my constituents back in Arizona that we won't even give weapons. We won't even give weapons or real time intelligence to the Ukrainian government and military, they're astounded. They're astounded. And now that the absolute avalanche of propaganda coming out of Russia into these countries, the Baltics particularly and others, and directed at "Russian-speaking peoples" is incredible. And right now, very frankly, there is almost no response as it was in the old days when we were, when they could in their basements turn on their short-wave radio and hear the Voice of America. And so we watch in the last few days tanks, artillery pour into Eastern Ukraine. I predicted exactly what he would do. After the Yanukovych left, he had to have -- Putin had to have Sevastopol. He could not give up the naval base there so he was going to take Crimea. I predicted it. And what did we do? Nothing. Does anybody ever mention the shoot down of a Malaysian Airliner? We know who did it. And now, according to General Breedlove, the NATO Commander, we see another movement of troops, and tanks, and equipment into Eastern Ukraine. Now, if you were the president of Estonia, who I, many of us know very well, I'll tell you, you are very nervous because you have a significant Russian-speaking population in your country that is being inundated with Russian propaganda. And what's next? I think -- I think that what Vladimir Putin is doing right now and what price has Vladimir Putin paid? Sanctions? By the way, he sanctioned me. I'm sanctioned by Vladimir Putin [laughter]. It might be -- I view it as a badge of honor and it didn't hurt me any in Arizona. I'll tell you that [laughter]. So when you look at the price that Vladimir Putin has paid then we are seeing great nervousness including in the Czech Republic about what this is going to be all about and what's the effect going to be on him? Where does Vladimir Putin stop? And frankly, our European friends as long as they are dependent on Russian energy, they're not going to do a hell of a lot. A little straight talk, my friends. They haven't and they won't. And Vladimir Putin knows that. So we see statements by the President of the Czech Republic which are remarkable, which are remarkable. And obviously, it got kind of a negative reaction from some students in Prague in the last few days -- pretty vigorous but so the point is that we are now in a situation in history where over time, Russia and Vladimir Putin cannot survive. Russia is a gas station masquerading as a country and the price per barrel -- the price of a barrel of oil going down around $70 is devastating their economy. Look at the depreciation of the ruble. But at the same time, look at Vladimir Putin's approval in Russia itself. And so what do we need to do? We don't need to start World War III. We don't even have to start the Cold War again. But we have to reaffirm the principles of NATO. We have to do what we can to help Ukraine. I was in Maidan with 300,000 people, they're in subfreezing weather. The people of Ukraine do not want to be part of the Russian orbit. They want to be part of Europe. And we should be helping them and not only by providing weapons but we should be speaking up for them the way that Ronald Reagan spoke up for the Czech people and Vaclav Havel. >> Yeah! >> Sen. John McCain: And we're not doing that. [ Applause ] Well, and we're finally, could I just say, we are not doing that. When is the President of the United States going to condemn Vladimir Putin rather than saying, "Tell Vladimir that after I'm reelected, I'm going to be more flexible." >> Hear [inaudible]. >> Sen. John McCain: Yeah. [ Applause ] >> Michael Zantovsky: But I'm the moderator here and I'm a diplomat so you can't expect me to comment on [laughter] what either of the presidents do. But let me make a historical remark because it has to do with the legacy of Vaclav Havel. When Vladimir Putin was first elected president in 2000, he was -- for many, he was the darling of the western world because he dressed quite nicely. He spoke passable German and many people saw this was the future of the Russian democracy. There was one person, Vaclav Havel who was distrustful from the very beginning of Vladimir Putin and made it quite clear in his writings and in his remarks. For him, Putin embodied some of the worst instincts of Russian imperial policy and of Russian undemocratic thinking. And he turned out to be largely right. In the meantime, things have happened. How much do you think the -- and I know this is awkward but how much do you think the reset had to do with emboldening Putin to become more assertive? >> Madeleine Albright: You know I had the privilege of doing something. Putin was named one the hundred influential people by Time Magazine and then they asked me to in 750 words describe what I thought of Putin [laughter]. And I had a lot of fun with that. I think Putin, he's a KGB officer and I think he's delusional. He has made up his own set of facts and he is pushing those you were talking about the propaganda and he has done something that I think is part of the danger here. He has identified himself with the loss of power by the Soviet Union/Russia. In 1991, I went and I did surveys all over Europe in terms of how countries felt with the dissolution of the Soviet Union. I hesitate to say this but I think that the United States made a mistake in saying that we won the Cold War. They lost the Cold War and that is not just a semantic difference. The communist system failed. But it has given Putin an excuse to say that we are the source of all evil and are the ones that have undermined them. We actually are responsible for Ebola and everything. And so, I think -- and one of the moments during the survey that I will never forget is we were doing a focus group outside Moscow. This man stands up and says, "I'm so embarrassed. We used to be a superpower and now we're Bangladesh with missiles." And one of the things that happened both for the first Bush administration and for the Clinton administration was that people felt that we didn't respect the Russians enough. Not true. We did everything we possibly could to work in order to try to bring Russia into the system and respect them whether it was with the G8 or any number of things. I personally went to see President Yeltsin when we were expanding NATO and said, "You know, if they got -- there was a time that if they wanted to be able to fulfill the requirements of NATO, there was no reason that Russia could not be a country that was part of the system." A lot of us are blamed for all of this because we expanded NATO. I talked to President Clinton about this and he said, "Ask a Pole or a Czech how they would feel if we hadn't expanded NATO." So I feel that we have done everything possible to make this work. The problem is that the Russians are the man who say we are just Bangladesh with missiles and what really is part of Putin's attraction and why he does very well is because that that sense is there. I think that we do need to stand up to Putin. And I absolutely believe we should do that. I think the question is how we do it and I think we do it by trying to in fact -- to get back to the theme here, of really trying to think about the things that Vaclav Havel would do or say. And then how he would gather -- because among the other things that he did so well, was to gather a community of leaders around him who spent time trying to figure out what the longer term solution is. There is a huge problem here. There is no question. I think that what is happening throughout the world but certainly in Europe is very dangerous and I do think that without getting into political arguments, we do need to do something. And I think the Czechs and the Poles; the Hungarians have lost their minds. Not the Hungarians themselves but Orban, have really gone way over. By the way, in this first survey that we also did, one of the questions we asked was, "Do you believe that there is a piece of your country in the neighboring country?" I'll never forget this, 80% Hungarians thought that there was. And so this kind of revanchism that's going on is something that we also have to deal with. >> Michael Zantovsky: Well I think we need a bipartisan consensus. >> Sen. John McCain: Right, could I just -- could I just make one addition? I agree with everything that Madeleine said but I also think that one of the factors, one of the major factors we learned after the Iron Curtain came down was the effect that things like Radio Free Europe, Voice of America, the effect that it had. How many people do we know that after it was over said, "I listened to Radio Free Europe. You gave us hope." "We listened to the Voice of America. We were encouraged when we heard that they were with us." Natan Sharansky talked about how the word spread in the Gulag that Ronald Reagan had mentioned his name. So what, I think, we need to do is how are we, how can we best counter this vast propaganda machine that Vladimir Putin has set up and that is to go back to and emphasize our message. The message of freedom, of democracy, of the legacy of Vaclav Havel. But one of the reasons why we're celebrating him today is because he was in the lead. He's what really epitomizes what many of us who study history, as the cutting edge of what eventually led to the end of the then Soviet Empire. So what, in my view, Congress working with the administration should evaluate what we are doing as far as our counter message to the people in Europe and especially in Eastern Europe including in the Baltic especially in others where we would counter the message. The stuff that's coming out of Moscow and these countries are being inundated with is the absolute, it's really like the old communist lies that are just blatant lies, the kind of thing that Lavrov says almost every day. So I think that we ought to look at that aspect of it. It's not that expensive and it would be, I think, very important for us to counter this inundation of propaganda that's coming out of Russia today. >> Madeleine Albright: John, one of things, if I might say, a great term that I've learned recently is what the Russians have done with their propaganda is the militarization of information. And I will work with you to support Radio Free Europe and RL because we've got to do that. >> Michael Zantovsky: Amen to that. [ Applause ] Now we've -- we promised to have some time for questions from the audience. And here they're coming. >> So we have quite a few questions and only about five to seven minutes to address them so I'll consolidate a couple of the questions into one. >> Michael Zantovsky: Please. >> There are a number of questions about Vaclav Havel's words, his writing, his playwriting, his poetry, his speeches. So to consolidate them into one question, one, could you reflect on his words and how his words might be used today to mitigate some of the situations that have been discussed? And two, do you have particular speeches or words of Havel's that resonate most with both of you? >> Madeleine Albright: Well, there are words that stand out -- love, truth, responsibility, consciousness. Now one of the very famous statements during the joint session was that consciousness proceeds being. And we all wondered how many people actually understood what he had said even though everybody thought it was the most brilliant thing. But I think it's very important because he did talk about that consciousness is the essence of who people have to be and to understand where you exist within the system as being something that is conscious. Because the opposite was the being came first and then consciousness and I think the fact that he put it in that order, I think was very important. >> Michael Zantovsky: And of course, the opposite was what the Marxist advocated and he refuted that in the Congress. >> Sen. John McCain: The only thing that I would add that I think was really one of the tools that he had that was very effective was satire. If there's anything that drove the Soviets crazy was when they with the use of satire and it just was so beautifully done. It was done with a scalpel that it -- and when you satirize people that are like the Soviet Union is, it was -- it catches on and is repeated time after time. And I think that was one of the very important aspects of his overall message. >> You both touched on it a little bit but we have a question specifically about Voice of America and its role that you see in Europe and the world. >> Madeleine Albright: Well, I think that one of the interesting parts is more towards where we brought public diplomacy within the State Department so that it became part of a tool that could be used in a number of ways to refute arguments. What is interesting is Radio Free Europe was moved to Prague which I think was very symbolic. And I do think that it is a way to get the message out in ways that people can listen to it that is not propaganda, that is a way of explaining what is going on in a democracy and not just kind of bellowing facts out so that people know that they are being lied to. >> Sen. John McCain: One thing I would to add to that, there's been divisions and certainly great debate particularly in the Senate and in the State Department and in the bureaucracies about sort of what Madeleine was talking about. Do we go back to sort of a propaganda, and I hate to use that word but sort of a message function or do we want to be just straight news or do we -- in other words, there is not a united or uniform approach to the use of Radio Free Europe and the Voice of America and we're going to have to resolve that. And again, it will cost some money to staff up which by the way, has been drastically reduced and to get more perhaps professional work there in keeping with the new means of communication that we have today, the internet, the tweets, all of that, Facebook, all of those make use of all those new methods that particularly young people use to communicate with each other. That's another thing that we have not done. But we also have to figure out, I think, through Congressional hearings and working with the administration as to exactly how we shape that message. Thank you. >> And unfortunately, we only have time for one more question so I'll throw a three into one question [laughter]. There's a question, a couple of questions about how Havel may have responded to China and other nations that are being alleged to have committed human rights abuses. There's a couple of questions about NATO and its role and a very interesting question about leadership and how do we build and generate new leaders for the world in the spirit, in the vein of Vaclav Havel's? Where will the next generation of Havel's come from? So take a crack at any of those three [laughter]. >> Madeleine Albright: Well, let me just say I do think that what was -- among the many important parts about Vaclav Havel was that he spoke out about what was not only wrong in his own country but used his moral authority to be the spokesperson for human rights. And he aligned himself with people that were fighting within their own countries. He certainly did with what was going on in China. At a certain time, he did with Aung San Suu Kyi. I know her well and she is very grateful for the kinds of things that President Havel did in support of her. I think there was not a time that he did not speak out about some derogation of human rights anywhere in the world and I do think that we should be doing more with that. And then I do also believe that that is where a new generation of leaders come from who understand that whatever principles one has for one's own country are derived from your own culture but that we are all the same which is what Vaclav Havel believed. And that we can help each other in our various countries and that's where leaders come from. >> Sen. John McCain: And I -- [ Applause ] The fact that we are celebrating him today is, I think, another testimony to his enduring legacy. When historians look back at the 20th century, I think they will look at the role that he played as a very important factor in bringing about a fundamental change in Europe. And I think one of the lessons we can learn from that is that it isn't necessarily the force of arms that change history. It's the voice of reason. It's the willingness to sacrifice and God knows he sacrificed for the principles and things that you believe in and stand for. And that there's one universal principle that all of us should never forget and that is human rights, that all of us no matter where we are from, no matter what part of the world, no matter what kind of regime exists that human rights are universal. And if there was some message that I got from Vaclav Havel is exactly that. That the people who are living in the most remote part of the world and in the most difficult circumstances are entitled to the same future that those of us in more advanced countries are able to enjoy. And if we stop doing that, if we stop advocating for them, then we will have abandoned the fundamental principles that were so eloquently articulated by Vaclav Havel. >> Madeleine Albright: If I might say one more thing, we were talking about the Old Testament and Moses. In the New Testament, it does say that a prophet is not often respected in his own country. We all respect Vaclav Havel here and are celebrating him, and I think the most respectful and truthful way and I wish that the people of the Czech Republic understood what an incredible legacy he left for those of us that were born there, that were proud of being born there, and that need to be respected in the Czech Republic today. [ Applause ] >> Michael Zantovsky: Madeleine, let me assure you that many people back home do. But before we conclude, this was wonderful. I have a small ceremony to conduct and I will stop with John. John, you're a military man so you know what a challenge coin is. So I have a challenge coin here for you as a token of our appreciation from the Czech Republic. >> Sen. John McCain: Thank you. [ Applause ] >> Michael Zantovsky: And, and Madeleine, you've been a Secretary of State. You've been famous for your pins which you used as tools of foreign policy and symbolic statements and sometimes as weapons of mass destruction [laughter]. But we have a Czech jeweler here, Mr. Alois Reshavi who made a special pin for you and would like to present it to you here so please. [ Applause ] This is Mr. Reshavi. [ Speaking in Foreign Language ] >> Madeleine Albright: Oh. >> Michael Zantovsky: Oh, it's beautiful. >> Madeleine Albright: That's terrific, a Czech lion. It's beautiful. [ Applause ] >> Michael Zantovsky: Shall we try to pin it on you? >> Madeleine Albright: [Inaudible]. This is definitely many pins. Thank you very, very much. Thank you. >> And just thank you very much. >> Sen. John McCain: It's beautiful. >> Michael Zantovsky: Thank you very much. Thank you. >> Sen. John McCain: Thank you, my dear. It was great to see you. >> Michael Zantovsky: Madeleine, I get a hug too. [ Applause ] >> Excellent, what a wonderful panel! We are very fortunate. I now invite our second panel to the stage and as they're coming forward, we will screen a short excerpt of Vaclav Havel's memorable address, "The Emperor has No Clothes," which was delivered at the Library of Congress. Oh okay, you're going to bring more [inaudible]. As Dr. Billington's remarks have reminded us, Vaclav Havel was twice a scholar in residence at Library's John W. Kluge Center. During those periods, he worked on his final play, "Leaving" and on his memoir, "To the Castle and Back." Havel also presented two lectures at the Library during his Kluge residencies. His May 2005 lecture on human rights, "The Emperor has No Clothes," addressed the contradiction between what nations proclaim about human rights and how they actually treat their citizens. In February 2007, during his second residency, Havel conducted a forum on dissidents and freedom featuring eight human rights activists from around the world. Here is a portion of Havel's 2005 address delivered on this very stage nine years ago. >> Dear friends, during my first presidential visit to United States more than 15 years ago, I received here in Washington on behalf of my country an important gift. It was the original manuscript of the Czechoslovakian Declaration of Independence from the year 1918. This rare and valuable document had until 1990 been the property of this Library. It was handwritten in Czech by our first President Tomas Garrigue Masaryk who deserves a great deal of credit for the creation of an independent Czechoslovakia and who, when he was in exile in the United States, worked closely with President Wilson. It is highly likely that in writing this declaration, Masaryk was inspired by the American Declaration of Independence. There are several such documents in modern history that have had a significance similar to that enjoyed to this day by the American Declaration of Independence. I need only mention for instance the universal declaration of human rights adopted after World War II by the United Nations or the final act of the Helsinki Conference in 1985. These documents are so much more successful for having been written in simple, clear, eloquent language if only because that makes it easier for schoolchildren to learn them and take them to heart so they become a permanent part of their civic understanding and their system of values. Along with the precision and the elegance of such basic documents, of course, there is one other thing that plays an immensely important role. There must be people who are willing, as they say, to put themselves on the line for these documents. That is, these declarations must be taken seriously. Their general principles must be made specific. They must be made genuinely binding and their fulfillment must be a tangible thing. Unfortunately, there are regimes or governments in the world who make a great show of floating these papers yet clearly do not take them seriously. For such regimes, these declarations are merely one of the loftier aspects of a formal ritual that has a single purpose, to disguise a miserable reality. Their function is similar is to the function of many celebrations, flag waving, parades, demonstrations or celebratory proclamations or speeches. Not to reveal truth but to hide it. What may be rightly and properly be done about it? Certainly, such manipulation with words, texts, declarations, constitutions or laws should not be met with merely private ridicule or resistance. There is another way. One that is riskier yet more productive. It may not be universally applicable but it has proven effective in most cases especially in the modern world with its unprecedented concentration of power and the unprecedented influence of falsely used words. That way consists in a persistent effort to take those who invoke those declarations at their word and to demand that their words amount to more than hollow sound. Such an approach usually provokes great astonishment and anger in rulers who are used to no one taking them at their word and to no one having the courage to appeal to the real meaning of their words. But that is only to be expected. [ Applause ] >> This has been a presentation of the Library of Congress. Visit us at loc.gov.