>> From the Library of
Congress in Washington, DC.
>> Robert Patrick: I'm Mr. Patrick.
I'm director of something they
call the Veterans History Project.
Okay, this is your quiz for the day.
Who can tell me what a veteran is?
You had your hand up first.
>> A person that helps animals.
>> Robert Patrick: A
person that helps animals.
You know, a lot of
people sometimes say that.
That's a veterinarian.
Okay, I'm going to
try you, young man.
>> A person who used to be in a war.
>> Robert Patrick: A person
who used to be in a war.
Pretty good.
>> A person that you
should remember.
>> Robert Patrick: A person
that you should remember.
Thank you.
And you?
>> It's somebody that
spends [inaudible].
>> Robert Patrick:
Okay, that's right.
That's another definition
for a veteran [inaudible].
And then you.
>> Somebody in the Army.
>> Robert Patrick:
Somebody in the Army, yes.
[ Inaudible Comment ]
There's a whole collection of what
you just said that's kind of right.
A veteran in terms of what we're
talking about today, though,
is somebody that has served in the
military, in any of the military:
Army, Navy, Air Force,
Marine Corps, Coast Guard.
All those people who served in
the military are called veterans,
once they come out of the service.
Who in here knows a veteran?
Who do you know?
>> Me.
>> Robert Patrick: You're a veteran?
>> No, [inaudible comment].
>> Robert Patrick: I did.
Your father?
What service was he in?
>> He was in the military.
>> Robert Patrick: Do you
know what service he was in:
Army, Navy, Marine Corps?
>> Marines.
>> Robert Patrick: He's Marines?
That's why you got a
good haircut, right?
Okay, yes, you.
>> My grandfather.
>> Robert Patrick:
Your grandfather was.
Do you know what service he was in?
Marines? My gosh, we got
a bunch of marines here.
Yes sir? Your cousin?
Do you know what service he was in?
>> She was in the Navy.
>> Robert Patrick: In the Navy.
Has she been recently in the Navy?
Okay. And you, sir?
[ Inaudible Comment ]
One of your uncles
was in the service?
You don't know what service it was?
Yes, ma'am.
[ Inaudible Comment ]
She's in the Navy?
Your uncle?
Do you know what service he was in?
The Army. I'm an Army veteran,
so he's probably a
pretty good guy, right?
Yes sir?
>> My father.
>> Robert Patrick: Your father?
[ Inaudible Comment ]
He went overseas?
Did not go overseas.
But he was in the military?
Whoever is in the military,
no matter what they do,
no matter they serve,
they're all veterans
and they should be remembered.
Did someone else have
their hand up over here?
Yes sir?
[ Inaudible Comment ]
Your friend's father
was in the Marines.
So the fact that a lot of you folks
know veterans, have some veterans
in your family, your friends
have people in veterans,
that says there's probably
a lot of veterans around.
And really there are.
Believe it or not, there
are 20 million veterans
who are in this country today.
In this room alone, Mr.
Cole [assumed spelling],
where'd Mr. Cole go?
He's a veteran, in the
Army many years ago.
I was a veteran.
There's veterans everywhere.
I bet there's veterans
in your school.
I bet there's veterans that
live down the street from you.
I bet there's veterans
you go to church with.
They're everywhere.
And each and every one of them have
what we call an important story
to tell.
It's a story of serving
their country.
No matter where they go,
no matter what they do,
what they do is important.
Why do you think veterans
are important?
Anybody have an idea?
Yes.
>> Because I think they
fight for [inaudible].
>> Robert Patrick: Exactly.
They're willing to fight, in some
cases lay down their lives, for each
and every one of us so that we
can enjoy what we have today
in this country.
And that's happened from day one
from when this country
started all the way up to today
that there're men and women
who've been willing to do this.
And that's why we think
those stories are important.
So we here at the Library
of Congress,
actually the United
States Congress thought
that this would be a good idea
and they created something called
the Veterans History Project.
And this is a project where
we encourage people to sit
down with a veteran in their
life, their neighbor, their uncle,
their mother, their grandmother,
their teacher, whoever,
and listen to their story.
And generally this is
done, this is something
that we ask high school
students and above to do for us.
And we've had people all
over the country doing this,
students all over the country.
We've had people like
in the Red Cross.
We've had people in
veterans' organizations.
We've had people in the Department
of Veterans Affairs, just all kinds
of people recording these stories.
But you can kind of
be a part of it too.
And if you want to, you
can go online and hear some
of these stories on our website.
But I would also encourage
you to talk about,
we talked about those veterans you
know or maybe that you don't know
to sit down and talk to them.
Ask them what's it
like being in the Arm.
What'd you do in the Army.
Where'd you go.
What was important for you.
What was some of the funny
things that happened to you?
Believe it or not, there are
funny things that happen to you
when you're in the military.
I have 28 years' worth of them.
But also ask them what does it mean
for them to say, "I'm a veteran?"
And when they think back on
their service to their country,
how they look at that and the
importance they put on that.
And whether they would
do it all over again.
And nine times out of ten
they would say they would.
There's another veteran
sitting back there.
That young man's a veteran.
I'm a veteran.
Mr. Cole's a veteran
who was just here.
So we're everywhere.
So that's the story
I have for you today.
You're going to be
hearing some other stories
from a very important veteran
that I think Miss Jaffe is going
to introduce at this time.
>> Karen Jaffe: Brian
Thacker is a Vietnam vet
and a Congressional
Medal of Honor winner
and you're going to
learn all about that.
And yesterday, which was
Memorial Day, we were talking
about that a little bit earlier.
He participated in
a special ceremony
in which the US Postal
Service launched three stamps
and on those stamps it
features the Congressional Medal
of Honor, very unique opportunity.
And Brian was one of ten
veterans who was at that service
and I believe who spoke,
at least to the media,
because I saw it, thanks
to Bob Patrick.
So without further ado, I'm
going to introduce Mr. Thacker.
He will be doing two things.
He's going to talk a bit about a
new book about "Choose Courage,"
which is a book about the
Congressional Medal of Honor,
winners and citizen winners, citizen
honor winners, and then he's going
to talk a bit about
himself and feel free to do
that in whichever order pleases you.
Okay? And then after he
speaks, we will have opportunity
for you to ask some questions.
This is what I'm going to do when
that happens, I'm going to sit
over there, but when the
question and answer period starts,
he will pick the person
that starts the questions
and he will call on them.
I will give the first person the
microphone and then you'll look
to see who's been called on
next and then you'll give
that person the microphone.
Because this is videotaped,
we want to be sure
that everyone gets their
question on the mike.
Okay? Alright, thank you.
>> Brian Thacker: Can we start the
lesson with a fine point for us
that we think of ourselves
as recipients, not winners.
We entered no contest.
It's a little thing but it's one
that I've been given the opportunity
to speak to, coming
out of the shoot.
Got to get my [inaudible].
This is not a me award.
This is an us award.
Yesterday when I was down at
the Vietnam Veterans Memorial
and the questions were always
what does this day mean to you,
what are you thinking about,
and the short answer is the same
thing I think about every day.
On panel four west, there's
a place on that panel
that remembers March 31, 1971.
And it was an average
day in Vietnam.
There's nine names on that wall,
in that section and a little
down about 85 to 95 row levels.
But for the efforts of five other
people, mine would be the tenth.
And every day I thank them for the
opportunity for a second chance.
I hope that when I
walk out of here today,
you will think that
I did them proud.
This award is since the Civil War,
just about 3500 soldiers, sailors,
airmen, coast guard,
one coast guard,
one woman have received the
honor out of over 40 million
that have ever served,
same time frame.
I had nothing to do with
nominating myself for this thing.
None of us did.
It was our peers that when
all the dust had settled
and there's usually a commander
that says, okay, awards,
what do you think,
who made a difference,
and somebody nominated us with
me to carry the responsibility
of receiving the award
and presenting it
in their behalf, to
whoever I talk to.
That's the way it is
with all of them today,
all of the living recipients.
It wasn't always that way.
Back in the Civil War, you could
promote yourself and many did.
And that era has passed.
This book, "Choosing Courage,"
is not just about this award.
It's about some civilians
that have done the same thing.
That would be you.
There's at least two stories in
there that are from children,
maybe three if I remember right.
Doolittle's daughter wrote one
but I knew her as an adult,
not when she was in sixth grade.
Jencie's story is a tough one.
It's a reality in every school
that all of the teachers train for.
My generation did not.
It's one of the differences between
the good old bad days in the 1950s
and yet when I say that
I'm a product of a separate
and unequal school system,
it hadn't changed over yet.
Having a weapon in school was
the last thing we thought of.
I certainly knew how to use them.
I'd been taught.
Don't point that thing at me, boy,
that's the way my uncles
addressed me when I needed
to improve my behavior and conduct.
But it was very clear from first
grade on that you shoot at targets.
If you're hunting, you
shoot at the animal
but you never point
he weapon at a person.
And I got that training early on.
We didn't have weapons
in the schools.
We had these but that was it.
The challenge that
Jencie faced was one
that here we are, we
have to deal with it.
If you go down to Union
Station and you watch the metro,
the Amtrak videos, there's a video
there that tells you what to do.
You only have three choices.
Two of them are run away.
And they come first.
The third one is the
soldier's solution
and the third solution is attack,
only if you have to because
at that point you've
already made the decision
that the shooter that you're next.
You're trapped and that's an
ugly reality that we all face
in public spaces and in school.
Let me start with Jencie's story.
If any of you have
questions, break it up.
Am I going to read the whole thing?
[ Inaudible Comment ]
It's a short one.
I need to read the first paragraph
and then I'll probably skip over.
I'll probably read about the
young man that she confronted.
I have not made a phone call
to the Foundation in years
about what's happened next.
But when you hear the
date is March 14, 2006,
Jencie Fagan was a
phys ed teacher setting
up for volleyball for first period.
I think you all have been there.
Some of you might've
been there to help.
She was at the Edward Pine
Middle School in Reno, Nevada.
And she was one of the more
popular members of the faculty.
She had enthusiasm but she
also had high expectations.
And she was involved with her kids.
She ran the laps with the kids.
She encouraged those that were
having trouble to keep up.
She ran with you to
try to help you along
because running is a challenge.
I don't like to do it.
But it's one of those
things that you have to do
to develop your lungs,
to develop your body.
The bad news is that the
lungs mature next to last.
The last to mature is
this thing up here.
But if you don't exercise
both before you get there,
you don't come out as strong.
Anyway, James, I don't know if
that's his real name or it's
to protect him, was one of
the loners at Edward Pine.
School was a struggle.
He had a dark feeling that
no one, not his schoolmates,
his parents, cared about him.
He was angry, confused.
It had come to a boil when he
watched a video of Columbine.
He came to school that morning
with a 0.38 caliber
pistol in his backpack.
Went to the boys room,
loaded it, and came out ready
to shoot before first period.
One of his friends, he
did have at least one,
he didn't recognize it though,
passed him and asked him
to take the gun away,
put the gun away,
and then James told him
to run for his life.
And then he opened fire.
Jencie recognized the sounds.
There were three rounds.
And she sprinted to the sound
even though she didn't have to.
The first rule when you hear
those sounds is to move away.
Code Red had been sounded.
That was their emergency signal.
Jencie huddled as many
students as she could
into the offices along
the way to the gym.
One of her students said, yeah,
we kind of expected Jencie
to come to the rescue.
That's the kind of
teacher that she was.
And then she saw James.
And she walked up to him
and started talking to him,
not in a loud yelling voice at all.
You talk in a soft voice.
The book says she began
talking to him in a soft voice.
She kept telling him
that he was not a killer
and that he would be all right.
You know, worried that someone else
could come in to the cafeteria,
he'd turn and shoot, so she stood
in front of him to make sure
that if he was going
to pull the trigger,
she was going to take
the first round.
She wasn't angry with James at all.
She felt sympathy and was
determined to keep him
from hurting anybody else.
She remembered her own
difficulties growing up.
One of six kids, brought up by
a single mother, in a small town
in Alabama, she felt disadvantaged
in comparison to normal families.
But her mom who worked
wouldn't tolerate self pity
and she was taught
mom didn't give up.
She pushed us harder.
She taught us to never quit.
And that's one of the
things that made her stick
with James rather than run.
She asked him to put down the
gun, please put it on the floor.
As long as you've got that thing,
we're in an unstable situation.
As soon as he did put it down, she
hugged him and kept talking to him.
She said we're not going anywhere.
I'm going to be with you.
I'll see you through this.
You have at least one
teacher on your side.
Yep.
The part that I'm unhappy about
because I don't know the rest
of the story on this side
is, you know, James was --
Two students were treated.
He did wound two students.
He was tried as a minor, arrested,
tried, convicted of two counts
of battery with a deadly weapon,
and I'm sure he went for treatment.
What I don't know is what's
happened to him since.
And that bothers me.
When she was asked why she
had put herself in harm's way,
Jencie talked about her mother.
She taught us to think that
if you see something happening
that isn't right, you do something.
You don't look for
someone else to handle it.
She said I'm a teacher,
a mom, a human being.
These are our children.
There's no way I'm going to call a
parent after something has happened
and tell them that I
didn't do everything I could
to protect their child.
A couple years later in 2008, March
25, that's a significant day for us,
it's the Medal of Honors' birthday.
We celebrate it.
We recognized Jencie.
I think she was one of
our first recipients
of our citizens above
self recognition.
That was a dream come true.
We think as recipients that we need
to recognize people in civilian life
when they step up to the
plate and it's a small token
of our appreciation to Jencie Fagan.
What she did when facing
harm was every bit
as courageous as what
a soldier faces.
And that is an abbreviated
version of what's in print here.
I skipped some of the
words and inserted some
of my own comments along the way.
But it's a short story,
unfortunately one
that almost every school
has to be aware of.
Now I think comes the hard part.
I'm supposed to talk about me.
I never know what to say on that and
we'll open it up for questions next.
We were soldiers.
We were in Vietnam.
We were on a isolated
small fire base.
The only way we could get
to it was by helicopter
because it was surrounded with
North Vietnamese regulars.
On March 31, the North Vietnamese
decided they wanted the fire base.
And we didn't want to give it up.
I lost three men, very quickly,
because they were awake.
They were on duty,
5:30 in the morning,
6 o'clock in the morning
you're supposed to be asleep,
unless you're a soldier
in a combat zone.
And then you either have a third
or half of your people awake,
ready to fight all the time.
That was a rotating duty.
My turn would've been the
day before or the day after.
We just took turns being up,
taking watch at all hours
of the day and night.
We were outnumbered, outgunned.
The only advantage that we
had is that we were on top
of the hill shooting down and
they had to shoot up at us.
But eventually by the end of the
day, we were not going to be able
to hold that position for that next
night and wait for reinforcements.
In order to get people away, I asked
for artillery fire on that position
so that they could form up in what
turned out to be a small platoon,
move down a trail through a place
where they could be
extracted safely.
I was waiting for that
fire to get to me
and it was taking much too long
for me, seconds if you were
down at the firing battery.
And I wanted to make darn sure
that when I left the first base,
and there was one South Vietnamese
soldier standing right beside me.
He had the machine gun.
They weren't messing with him.
They could listen to
us on the radio.
They knew that I was going
to shoot the location.
It was just a matter of do we
want to rush across that fire base
and try to get to them or do we
want to hold back and let them go.
I don't know what was going
through the enemy commander's mind.
What I was looking to do at
that point in time was buy time
so that what was left of a
friendly unit could separate.
Hopefully there wasn't an
ambush waiting for them.
And they could get to a place
farther away from the fire base
where helicopters could
land and extract them.
I tried to catch up.
Did not. Ended up deciding that it
was better to stay still and hide
where I wasn't supposed to be and
hope that they wouldn't look for me.
And that was a successful
strategy the first night.
The next day I was trying to move to
a safer location and we got bombed.
And when the dust settled,
I was surrounded
by a North Vietnamese
machine gun position.
And I had to wait in a bamboo
thicket that had been prepared
by some animal, probably a
tiger, when I think back on it.
And I just had to wait until I
thought it was safe to go back
up to the fire base, which had been
retaken by the South Vietnamese.
There was a battle going on.
You could hear it all day.
Whenever helicopters came in
to resupply the fire base,
they flew right over my position.
The machine gun -- The North
Vietnamese machine gun emplacement
opened up on them and they
either had to go up, go around,
maneuver to land at the fire base.
We got strafed every day.
We knew that a resupply was coming
because we got strafed followed
by the supply helicopters and
the North Vietnamese just stayed
in their little holes and waited
for the strafe to end and came up
and were read to shoot at the
next round of helicopters.
It was a pretty simple game.
And eventually I decided
I had to crawl back
up the mountain and
was successful here.
I was thirsty.
I was tired.
I was hungry.
Mostly thirsty.
And I was evacuated and two
and a half years later
I got the phone call
that you're going to be decorated.
And that, sort of in a
nutshell, is my story,
whatever I could pull
up today and remember.
I don't know to this day
what I did that was heroic.
I had a job to do.
I was the team leader.
They were my men.
I had tools at my disposal.
I used every one of them
to the extent I could.
But I think that's what
I was expected to do.
I have to trust my colleagues
that whatever they saw
trust their judgment
because that's what we were doing
because you don't give an order,
an order that you give that
nobody follows is useless.
People have to accept the
guidance and the instruction.
But they did put me in and it
survived all the reviews and two
and a half years later
I was decorated.
Hopefully, I don't know,
we'll know from your questions
because that's what's going to come
next after about one or two lines.
So I'll give you a
break, give you a chance.
I joined the Medal of Honor Society.
In 1973 there was almost
400 living recipients.
I got to meet guys from World
War I, II, the Interim, Korea.
All the people in this
book I've known.
It's kind of neat.
It's personal.
But it's all after Vietnam.
That the book was published
is a dream come true,
that we can recognize people like
Jencie Fagan is a dream come true.
It's something we've wanted to do.
We've worked hard to do.
With the help of a lot of other
people, we can make it happen.
And we hope that you pay attention.
A lot of people trying to
get you to pay attention.
I know that.
And this is one way we hope
we get a sound bite in.
Do you have any questions?
Yes ma'am.
Yeah, you get to practice
using the microphone.
Say your name.
>> My name is Cassandra
[assumed spelling].
And the first thing that you said
was you considered as recipients.
Why?
>> Brian Thacker: This
happens to me.
That's a good question.
I didn't volunteer for this award.
I didn't put in an application.
As one of my colleagues and
you'll read about him in this book
and it's Ron Rosser, he says what it
means to me is that the other people
that were with you had a difficult
time and when you see his video,
when he says that his voice
starts to quiver and break
because the emotions
are bubbling up.
They thought you were worthy of it.
I'm not sure that I am.
And that's not a winner.
A winner is something that
you work hard to try to get.
And I didn't work to get this.
Did that answer the question?
>> Yes.
>> Brian Thacker: Sort of?
>> Yes.
>> Brian Thacker: It's okay.
It's okay to have follow-up
questions but I'm sure some
of your other colleagues
would like to ask a question.
Yes sir. Take the mike.
You're going to have --
>> Why did you want
to come in the Army?
>> Brian Thacker: In
the Army or an officer?
>> Officer.
>> Brian Thacker: Okay, in
those days there was a law
that said you get drafted.
Every able-bodied male was going
to be drafted whether
you liked it or not.
Most people don't like that at all.
I was in college.
I was flunking out of college.
In fact, I did.
Fifty years ago, I had
flunked out of college.
And when I went back to
school, ROTC was available.
If you were in ROTC, you
were deferred from the draft.
But you went in as a
commissioned officer.
And an officer is responsible
for everything
that his unit does and doesn't do.
I wanted to find out
if I could do that.
I wanted to find out if I
could get men to do something
that they didn't want to do
in a hostile environment.
I didn't know if I'd like it.
Didn't know if I would
thrive on that.
But wanted to know if I could do it.
And those were my reasons
for going ROTC.
Yes ma'am.
No. You need the practice of
speaking into the microphone.
I'm sorry.
Your colleagues have
to pass it to you.
>> My name D'Kaya [phonetic].
When you served in the Army, did
it make you proud [inaudible]?
>> Brian Thacker: I'm
very proud of my service.
I'm proud of the people I was with.
They were from all over the country.
And they were good soldiers.
And they wanted to come home and
they were willing to work together
to come home rather
than by themselves.
I wouldn't -- It's one of those
things that you don't want people
to have to go in the Army.
You don't want war.
But if you have to, it seems
like almost every generation
in our country has had to.
It's kind of like learning what to
do when there's a weapon in school.
It's not what you want.
It's not what you like.
But it's an ugly reality of
what you have to life with.
And --
I'm perfectly willing to
come back to you but I want
to see somebody else get
their questions in too.
Follow-up question?
>> Did you have any family members
when you was in the Army, well,
like, was you married back then?
>> Brian Thacker: Okay,
no, I was not married.
My father is an Air Force officer.
And I grew up in the Air Force.
Let him have it first.
>> My name Isaiah.
And what it is like
to be in the Army?
>> Brian Thacker: When
you're in the Army,
you go where the Army wants
you to go, first of all.
I got very used to living
out of a duffle bag.
Everything I owned and needed
was in a small suitcase.
You only need three
pair of underwear.
One that you got on, one that's
clean and one that's in the laundry.
You quickly learn it's
nice to have a fourth,
just in case the laundry
doesn't work.
Same with your uniform.
Two pairs of boots, one that
you've got on, one that's resting
and you switch off every day.
The first thing you do
is you brush your teeth.
Then you wash the rest of your body,
depending on how much
water you have.
Of course, you're training to do the
one thing that we don't want to do
as humans and that's
hurt somebody else.
It goes against every
grain in your body.
But that's what you're
training to do.
>> Karen Jaffe: Brian, I
have a question for you.
In reading this book,
one of the points I got
of it was the universality
of certain characteristics
of both outstanding military
soldiers who were recipients
of the medal and citizens
who received the honor
medal from the Society.
So I wondered if you could
talk a bit about some
of these important characteristics
about courage that are applicable
to everyone, including our
students from L Pine School.
>> Brian Thacker: I'll try.
The enemy is selfishness.
The enemy is me, I, and thinking
that the world revolves around me,
and accepting the reality
that it doesn't,
that there's something bigger
than you, more important than you,
and that you can get along a whole
lot better if you think that way.
The most -- One of the
most fundamental instincts
that we all have is self
preservation and I want me
to be saved first as opposed
to me being saved last.
If you make me saved first,
you're going to have regrets
for the rest of your life.
Even though it may be more
difficult in the short run
to say save me last,
if you are saved.
You don't wonder, could
I have done more.
What about if I'd only
done this, then maybe one
or two more would've made it.
I still think about the men I lost.
Is there anything that we
could've done differently.
And at the end of the day,
no, we were going to have two
or three people on duty that morning
that were going to be fully armed,
loaded, letting the rest of us
catch a few Z's, a few more Z's.
And that when the attack
came, they were the ones
that were going to be on the line.
And I lost them very early.
I can't change that.
The others, yeah, we could've
tried to bug out early
and we would've all, none of us
would be here to talk about it.
In all of the stories in
there, it's an individual
who was putting other
people ahead of themselves
and it makes a difference
whether it be Jencie
or Dr. Cox [assumed
spelling] who was the doctor
from the Doctors Without Borders.
There are other individuals that
eventually their stories will get
in to print and will
be added to that.
I'm thinking of one detective up
in Philadelphia that got a medal
from the 8-year-old that he
saved in the river that day.
That award means more
to him than ours.
And that's the difference
that he made on that day.
You had another question.
>> What is the --
I forgot.
>> Brian Thacker: It'll
come back to you.
That was a dirty trick
to play on you.
Yes sir.
>> So my question is
what was it like --
What was your experience like coming
out of the military [inaudible]?
>> Brian Thacker: My whole
experience, even in Vietnam, was,
when I reflect on it, not normal.
But when I came home, I came
home to a military base,
where everybody there had
already returned home.
So from startle response was
everyone knew what it was.
We all laughed about it.
And it's okay.
We've all done that.
We still are jumpy.
Anything else going on and
they talk to you about it.
And instead of being
different, I was with people
who were the same and
they understood.
I was in a state that was pro
military, the state of Hawaii,
not one that you would
expect would be pro military
but the state is very pro military.
As a people, they are very
pleased and proud and be Americans
and they understand
that that Navy base
at Pearl Harbor has a
lot to do with that.
And they're very proud of now
it's their grandfather who served
in the 442 or the 100th
in the Japanese regiments
that fought in Europe.
They fought for their citizenship.
And they're very proud of it.
So I was in a friendly,
understanding environment.
And by the time I got to
graduate school in '73,
my own generation was getting
over that and we were trying
to get back together again.
Eventually we'll heal.
That's work in progress.
Yes ma'am.
You remembered?
>> What is the ITC,
NTC, ITC, I don't know?
>> Brian Thacker: ITC?
>> ROTC.
>> Brian Thacker: ROTC?
Okay. It's Reserve
Officers Training Corps.
It's a military school
command structure
that helps college
students become officers.
In many colleges it's a
minor in military science.
You'll find it in the
department of social studies.
You're done?
>> Yes.
>> Brian Thacker: Yes ma'am.
>> I was going to ask a similar
question [inaudible] does have ROTC
for high school students
and our building actually
shares the [inaudible] building
with the ROTC headquarters.
They're in our middle school.
And so I know our kids see it a lot
and they're not sure what
exactly the ROTC wing is about.
And so I was just wondering if you
got any advice for them or any sort
of decision-making advice when it
comes, when they get in high school
and they have the opportunity
to join ROTC?
>> Brian Thacker: When
I was in sixth grade,
I didn't know what I wanted to do.
It wasn't until eighth grade that I
even realized that I wanted to fly.
Still do. I'm too blind
but in the back,
one of the things that's
driven a lot
of my decision making was
how do I become a pilot.
Junior ROTC in high school
is an interesting program.
It's not for everybody.
It's one that you need to
look at but it's a program
that gives you a sense of belonging
to something bigger than yourself.
They do -- It is -- They do
have some discipline in it.
Like Jencie Fagan, the cadre
tend to have high expectations
of the students that do it.
So if you're -- Some
students in high school need
that for structure, for help.
Others don't and would
chafe at the regimentation.
You have to first look in and learn
to know yourself, what do I need
and then will this help me
get to where I want to get.
I have to admit, in sixth grade
I wasn't thinking that way.
That would've been a stretch.
But by eighth grade,
it was -- I was very --
I had some skill in the STEM side
of [inaudible], so I kind of pointed
that way as preparation
for being a pilot.
Somebody waiving their
hand with another question?
[ Inaudible Comment ]
Yes ma'am.
>> My name is Oshay [phonetic] and
I wonder who was your inspiration
when you went to the Army?
>> Brian Thacker: When I was young,
my parents, my dad in particular,
was my mentor, was who inspired me.
As I've gotten older
and older and older,
I look at a couple of middle school
teachers, junior high teachers
who had high expectations
for their students,
were strict about your behavior
in class, Miss [inaudible]
in eighth grade was the first one
to give me leadership responsibility
on the fire patrol and
later on the safety patrol.
Somebody has to tell you that along
the way and identify it and point it
out to your parents that this one
has potential in the following area.
I can see it already.
Miss Hall in Montgomery, Alabama,
ninth grade Latin teacher,
taught us more English in that
Latin class and taught us more
about English in that
Latin class than we had had
in our English teacher but
she was an experienced teacher
and could do that.
It was not fair to ask a first-year
teacher who was an art major
to teach ninth graders English.
But Miss Hall had no
problem teaching English,
Latin, any of the courses.
I think she could've taught
any class in that middle school
at the ninth grade level.
She was that good.
>> Brain, can I ask a question.
>> Brian Thacker: Yes sir.
>> My name is [inaudible]
and my question is
that what was your most favorite
thing when you was in the Army?
>> Brian Thacker: You asked
what's the most favorite thing
when I was in the Army.
Well, it was usually Saturday
night but we weren't on duty then.
When I was on duty and doing my job,
I really liked and analyzed things.
I liked to say -- I liked to look
at the terrain and ask the question
if I were the enemy,
where would I be.
And try to figure that out.
And if you can do that, then
you can defend yourself better.
I liked to make organizations work.
And later on that became favorite.
But in the beginning, it was
down in the weeds doing the math,
doing the calculations, thinking
about what the enemy
was trying to do to us.
Yes sir.
>> My name Isaiah and what was
the most important thing that --
What was the most important
thing that you had
to learn during the Army?
>> Brian Thacker: Ask for help.
The question was what was the
most important thing that I had
to learn to do in the Army.
Well, you walk in as this brand new
second lieutenant and every sergeant
in the unit has been there and knows
more about their job than you do.
Your job isn't to tell
them how to do their job.
As a lieutenant, you have to
learn can they do their job,
do they do it well,
can they do their job
without messing somebody else up
because it doesn't do any good
to do your job if you've made
somebody else's life more difficult.
You had to learn to
ask them for help.
You had to learn to ask
the question, serg, chief,
is this is a sergeant problem
or is this an officer problem.
Inevitably, the sergeant said,
well, let me take a look at it first
and if I can't handle it,
it's an officer problem.
And, you know, only one or two
times did I ever get a problem.
But learning that and learning
how to make that work for you,
that was all after school.
That was on-the-job training.
Yes sir. Thank you.
>> I know you guys have leave.
And when you are on leave, what
did you do for fun or [inaudible]?
>> Brian Thacker: The unit
I was in, in Vietnam chose
to let their officers have leave,
R&R, after 11 months in country.
I never got to 11 months in country.
So I don't know.
Your choice was go to Bangkok,
see an incredible culture
that's very different from ours.
Go to Australia, see an English
speaking culture that's very
different from ours.
Go to Hong Kong, get a suit made
that's going to be too small for you
because when you get home
you're going to put on weight.
I don't know where
I was going to go.
With an older audience, I would say
what that did was in that battalion
after you went on R&R,
you were given light duty
and you were never
sent back to the field.
And then you went home.
So that was the mindset
about the command decision
about not giving R&R
midway in between.
It was a command decision
and it was for the good
of the battalion, not
immediately obvious.
I think people are getting
antsy, just a little.
Are there some more questions?
Yes ma'am.
>> Okay, I asked the same question.
What was the funniest thing
that you have [inaudible]?
>> Brian Thacker: Funniest thing?
The funniest thing that happened
to me in the Army was when you pull
in to a firing site and the
XO, the officer in charge,
has to point the direction that he
wants the artillery tubes to point.
The first time that I pulled the
firing battery into a firing point
and wanted them to align on the
direction, I went like this.
And the chief sergeant said, sir,
which way do you want the tubes
to point, this way or this way?
He needed to know from me which
way and I didn't give it to him.
I just gave him an
azimuth direction.
I didn't point him in
the right direction.
It was a learning experience for
me but I was also the subject
of laughter that evening in the BOQ,
where all the officers were sleeping
in the same room, dorm style.
Everybody in the battalion learned
that you point this way, this way,
this way, but don't do it this way.
And I was the butt of
the joke for a night.
Yes sir?
[ Inaudible Question ]
>> My name is Mawqua [phonetic]
and what is your favorite weapon
while you were in the war?
>> Brian Thacker: What
was my favorite weapon?
My favorite weapon was
one that I didn't have.
An artillery piece in those
days was an eight-inch howitzer.
It's big. It's mean.
When it hits somebody, it
really kicks your butt.
But it's very accurate
for a weapon that big.
And that was the weapon I needed
most the day of the action.
I would've loved to have been
on the wrong end of that weapon
because it would've missed me by --
If I had asked it to
miss me by 50 meters,
it would've missed me by 50 meters.
If I had asked it to
miss me by 10 meters,
it would've missed me by 10 meters.
That weapon is that good.
And that's what I needed
and I didn't have it.
It's not the answer you
were expecting, I'll bet.
>> Karen Jaffe: Okay,
well thank you so much.
You want to give Brian a
round of applause [applause].
>> Brian Thacker: Thank you.
>> This has been a presentation
of the Library of Congress.
Visit us at loc.gov.