>> From the Library of Congress in Washington, DC. >> Jason Steinhauer: Well, good afternoon. My name is Jason Steinhauer, I'm a program specialist at the J. W. Kluge Center at the Library of Congress. Today's lecture is presented by the John W. Kluge Center at the Library of Congress. The Kluge Center is a vibrant scholar center on Capitol Hill that brings together scholars and researchers from around the world to stimulate and energize one another, to distill wisdom from the Library's rich resources, and to interact with policy-makers and the public. The Center offers opportunities for senior scholars, post-doctoral fellows, and PhD candidates to conduct research in the Library of Congress' collections. We also offer free public lectures, conferences, symposia, and other programs, and we administer the Kluge Prize which recognizes outstanding achievement in the Humanities and Social Sciences. For more information about the Kluge Center, please visit our website, loc.gov/kluge and I invite you to sign up for our RSS email list on your way out to learn about future programs and opportunities for you to conduct your own research here at the Library of Congress. Today's program is titled, "Medieval Manuscripts at the Library of Congress." It features scholar Ilya Dines, currently a Kluge fellow at the John W. Kluge Center. While at the Library of Congress, Dr. Dines has been working to catalogue 150 medieval manuscripts and fragments held by the Library. In his presentation, he will analyze and detail the importance of the Library's Medieval Manuscript collection and outline the role it could play in expanding and deepening understandings of the medieval era. For those of you with us today who have had a chance to view the wonderful manuscripts that we've put out in the other room, we'd like to thank the Law Library of Congress, the Rare Books Division of the Library of Congress, and the Music Division of the Library of Congress for making those documents available to us today. Dr. Ilya Dines has been involved in numerous cataloguing projects since receiving his PhD into -- excuse me -- in Medieval History from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem in 2009. He was the director of the Medieval and Renaissance Catalogue Project at the National Library of Israel and is currently head paleographer and codicologist for the Lazarus Project at the University of Mississippi, perhaps the best title I've ever had the opportunity to read [laughter]. Dines has been a post-doctoral researcher at the University of Cologne, University of Cambridge, Ben-Gurion University, and Hebrew University of Jerusalem, and has taught at the Higher School of Economics in Perm, Russia. Besides publishing numerous articles, Dr. Dines has written three books, Apocalyptic Cartography , Thematic Maps , The End of the World in a Fifteenth-Century , co-written with former scholar at the Kluge Center, Chet Van Duzer. As well as both " Westminster Bestiary: Text and Commentary , and a critical edition of the " Bestiaries of the Third Family forthcoming this year. So, please join me in welcoming Dr. Ilya Dines. [ Applause ] >> Dr. Ilya Dines: Thank you [inaudible], thank you very much for all for coming to my talk. This is a big honor for me. Let me start. Medieval manuscripts at the Library of Congress -- it gives me great pleasure to begin my talk with thanks to the Kluge Center for the wonderful opportunity to work here during the past year and to conduct my research on medieval manuscripts [noise]. A year ago, I was granted the Kluge fellowship to catalogue medieval bestiary manuscripts acquired by the Library of Congress. This was a great honor considering the scope of the collection and that [inaudible] who's distinguished role I was to assume. My work wouldn't have been possible without the care and collaboration of the director of Kluge programs, Dr. Mary Lou Reker, the Collector of the Rare Books Department, Dr. Mark Dimunation, Dr. Eric Fraser, Dr. Nathan Dorn, Dr. Susan Claremont, and my many other colleagues for their valuable contribution. Thank you. The [inaudible] are the treasure, the Library of Congress possesses about 300 medieval manuscripts. These manuscripts have been produced in various parts of Europe from 1100 to about 1600, throughout Europe. Several words about the collation and its place of origin in order. Contrary to many European collections, the time to recite where they were produced, the Library of Congress manuscripts came from various collections. They were donated by various individuals and were purchased at various times. Two of these collections are particularly worthy of mention. The first is the Collection of Sir Thomas Phillips , who was probably history's greatest private collector of manuscripts. His collection included about 60,000 manuscripts. His success as a collector was due -- at least in part, to the solution of the monastic libraries, [inaudible] the French Revolution, and to the relative and expensive use of manuscripts at that time. And as [inaudible], Phillips established Middle Hill Press in 1822 which he named after his country, set in Broadway, Worchester, England. At Middle Hill, he not only recorded his book holdings, but also published his findings on English topography and genealogy. During his lifetime, Phillips attempted to turn over his collation to the British library as his legacy to the British nation. He corresponded to then Chancellor of the Exchequer Disraeli, but the negotiations proved unsuccessful and ultimately, the dispersal of his collection took over 100 years. Significant portions of the European material sold to national collections on the continent included the Royal Library in Berlin, the Royal Library of Belgium, and the Provincial Archives in Utrecht. Outstanding individual items were sold to J. Pierpont Morgan and Henry Huntington libraries in the US. The Library of Congress is very fortunate to have acquired about 10 manuscripts from Sir Thomas Phillips' collection. The second notable collection is that of the famous Chicago businessman and chess patron Lessing Julius Rosenwald. Eventually, he dedicated himself full-time to collecting rare books and art. In 1943, he pledged to donate his collection to the Library of Congress and to the National Gallery of Art. The Library of Congress collection contains about 20 medieval manuscripts. Among them is the famous Giant Bible produced ion 1452, 1453 probably in Mainz or its [inaudible]. It is well known not only because of its beauty, but also that is one of the last manuscript bibles written before the invention of printing in the west. The Bible was written by a single scribe on high quality parchment. The pages measure 576 millimeters to 405 millimeters with wide margins. Because the collection of manuscripts at the Library of Congress came from so many different sources, it has a very mosaic character. Another peculiarity of the Library of Congress collections is that contrary to many other libraries, its collections are not kept in one place but are distributed among several library locations. Thus, manuscripts can be found in the Rare Books room, the Law Library, the Music Division, Manuscript Department, Geography and Map Division, and probably some other places that I hope I didn't over look [laughter]. Most of the Library of Congress manuscripts have been briefly described in census of medieval and Renaissance manuscripts in the United States and Canada, prepared between 1935, 1940 by the same duration with the assistance of Wilson. Here's how the standard description appears in the region. You can see. Manuscript number one, Biblia Velum, circa 1340, 352 and394 folios. Then, we have size, there's one folio in volume one and five folios in volume two. Written in Italy, probably in Bologna, contains 146 miniatures, formerly bound in velvet. Rebound circa 1830 in dark blue Morocco, with H. Perkins arms. As you can see, the description is very short. It mentions briefly the content of the manuscript, specifies the material of the manuscript, paper or parchment, provides information about the number of pages to get the [inaudible] size and gives a not very precise date, such as the 13th Century. Sometimes, it mentions the place of production, usually very generally, say Italy. It also specifies whether or not the manuscript is illustrated. This is generally all areas that are [inaudible] from the Rich Catalogue which until today, remains the most common way readers gain information about manuscripts. The Rich Catalogue has been updated several times. In 1962, Foy and Bond composed a supplement in which they described more manuscripts and where they provide readers with slightly more details and when possible, with important corrections of the Rich data. The 1980s are shown in a new e-book for the Library of Congress manuscripts when Swetha [inaudible] one of the finest manuscriptologist of that period assumes scholarly responsibility for the collection. In this presentation, I will be using the notes and technological records compiled by Swetha and other librarians. Swetha has a huge advantage over most cataloguers. Before starting to work at the Library of Congress, Swetha was a priest and his deep knowledge of Catholic literature stood him in a good stead in describing various medieval liturgical books. During the past 30 years, several important North American libraries such as the Chicago Newberry Library, Yale's Beinecke Library, Princeton University Library, and some others produced new catalogues of the medieval and renaissance manuscripts but none equals the catalogue produced by Swetha. It comprised a special place among them and deserved practical notice. Then to [inaudible] catalogues showed that there are many ways to describe manuscripts. This way depends on manufacturers such the amount of time [inaudible] chooses or is able to devote to the manuscript. This series in which he approached each manuscript, the skill and the scholarship of the researcher, and the opportunity to fulfill his goals. Most catalogues, however, present that to promote further research. The fact is most historians including our historians do not possess the skills of archivist and of good cataloguers. The [inaudible] described 116 manuscripts is simply amazing. His description combined what is seldom contained in a simple catalogue entry, that is the fullest description and research. His every manuscript entry represents many articles of approximate 10 pages which makes this entry virtually unparalleled in cataloguing practice throughout the vault. This [inaudible] explains why 116 manuscripts are described in two volumes and occupy more than 1000 pages. It also explains why this research took more than 20 years. Let us look at standards [inaudible] description. This is the description of manuscript number one -- I used, in this case, I use Foy Bond number. An early 13th Century Bible of English production and it's possible to see the depth of the descriptions [inaudible]. At the left -- because see the correct date of the manuscript [inaudible] 13th Century. Thirty-one [inaudible] important [inaudible] information about number of columns in the test and the measurement of the bound volume itself. For [inaudible] description of the content of the manuscript, for instance, there is a description of the preface to the Bible. A considerable amount of medieval Bibles are preceded by introductory text from [inaudible] who translated the Bible from [inaudible] at the end of the 4th Century. This entry provides information about the structure of this prefix which is slightly different in many medieval manuscripts. This way, the reader can get initial information about the group to which this manuscript belongs. Furthermore, contrary to [inaudible] order of the books is set beginning with Genesis. The medieval Bible shows great consistency in the order of the books. Therefore, [inaudible] is very important in describing manuscripts because quite often a single manuscript may contain a number of texts that at some point in time, were bound together. The deRitchi and other short catalogues simply overlook this fact and mostly mentioned on the first item for text in the manuscript. As a result, scholars don't know what else the manuscript contains. The situation is dramatized by Umberto Eco in the name of the [inaudible] who's plot is based on an erroneous catalogue description where a relatively unimportant text by Cipriani is noted in the context of the manuscript while [inaudible] copy of Aristotle's second book of [inaudible] is not. [Inaudible] detailed description save readers and researchers an incredible amount of time. After two or three pages of such a description comes a codological analysis of the manuscript. Swetha describes the system of foliation, the [inaudible] numbered, then he provides details about measurement of [inaudible] space. The number of columns, the number of lines, the margins are close, and the way the manuscript is ruled. All this information is of crucial importance for the reader. Of great importance is an analysis of the number of hands that participated in creating a manuscript. To illustrate this importance, the first like of the folio in a medieval manuscript can be set either above or below the top line. While the difference seems insignificant, in fact the position of the line in many cases can be crucial for the proper [inaudible] of the manuscript, in accordance with the rule of Neil Ker, the name of the English scholar who discovered it. For some probably mostly [inaudible] reason, after the year 1250, the practice of most European scribes changed from placing the first line in the above position to placing it in the below position. In the absence of other indicators, such information can point to the date of the manuscript. Without such a notation in the catalogue, much research will be lost as sometimes on microfilm or in digital image. [Inaudible] is hardly visible. The analysis [inaudible] undertook in his research is virtually unparalleled in modern cataloguing. He described the correct usage of letters and justified his conclusion about the number of [inaudible] and the date and origin of the manuscript. The codological description and coloration -- -- this is one of the most problematic elements in manuscript research. The manuscripts are made from [inaudible] of leafs. They usually have four, six, eight, and 10 folios. Depending on the number of folios, in some cases, the country and region of the manuscript production become possible to determine. Checking the [inaudible] is a very sensitive process, some manuscripts [inaudible] are fragile and many manuscripts are bound very tightly. In many libraries, librarians understandably prohibit [inaudible]. Thus, the only possible way for a researcher to obtain the required information is a catalogue and thus, the crucial importance of such information in catalogues. The description of the entry and the description of the [inaudible] program of the manuscript -- -- and if notes about prominence and bibliography. The way Swetha described 160 manuscripts is amazing. It saves researcher a lot of time and helps keep manuscripts safe. Readers who are not interested in [inaudible] Swetha's codological analysis can easily find this data in his catalogue. Such a thorough description is also very useful in our digital era. Nowadays, many libraries tend to digitize manuscripts and the process becoming progressively is indeed. With the reduction of the cost of good [inaudible], we can see that every era, more and more libraries put their collections sometimes even entire collections online. The [inaudible] problem for scholars arise not from the images, but from the fact that the image itself is not as [inaudible] as description in the manuscript. As I noted earlier, the catalogues of many libraries are simply old and uninformative so that the large efforts library -- librarians and technical assistants result in beautifully [inaudible] manuscripts [inaudible] with very poor descriptions like for instance, the [inaudible] of the Rich Catalogue. A further complication is that once a digital copy is available, many libraries tend to bar scholars from examining the original manuscripts and make an accurate catalogue entry virtually impossible. The possibility of destruction of manuscripts also makes accurate and thorough catalogue description mandatory. During the last decades, we have seen the manuscript which survived for 1000 years in medieval repositories are not as safe in our modern environment. It is enough to recall [inaudible] Library of Anna Amalia in Germany 10 years ago and the tragedy that happened in 2009, to the famous archive at Cologne where in several minutes, a huge collection of [inaudible] charters and many medieval manuscripts was lost. A considerable portion of manuscripts have not been properly described or at least they're not described in the way Swetha has done and such precious information is lost to us forever. At the time Swetha retired, the [inaudible] description of manuscripts have been stopped for [inaudible]. Before retirement, Swetha compiled a list of manuscripts to be added to the third already-planned volume. This list includes about 70 manuscripts. In 2015, Swetha generously provided the draft that he had compiled for some manuscripts. One problem however, [inaudible] catalogue was published because Swetha had used his own shelf marks for manuscripts and despite the fact that the volume include the index of the [inaudible] of old and new numbers. In many cases, [inaudible] errors of within the numbers. To resolve the problem, today the library tends to use [inaudible] system of shelf marks. As I noted, the library [inaudible] and the manuscripts are spread over several departments. As a result, about 70 manuscripts were never noted by deRitchi, [inaudible], and Swetha. Some of them didn't have any shelf mark at all and as a result, they are not known to the general public. All these manuscripts would appear in the third volume that I have been compiling during the past year. Let me come directly to these manuscripts. A considerable part of the Library of Congress manuscript treasures consist of eight Bibles, about 40 liturgical manuscripts, and about 20 books of ours. These items are described in the first volume of the Swetha's Catalogue. Of particular interest is the creation scene from manuscript number 71 produced in Paris around 1250. The peculiarity of this manuscript is evident in its initial [inaudible] at the beginning of Genesis. The sections of compartments in this initial doesn't correspond to the days of Scriptural account but the order of days goes as follows, like firmament, division of waters, dry land, plants, sun, moon, fish, reptiles, birds, quadrupeds, man and [inaudible]. In the manuscript 71, the first compartment -- -- appears to stand for the general beginning, the second for creation of light. The meaning of the third and fourth is rather unclear. The fifth compartment showed plants, the sixth birds, and the seventh, man. Liturgical manuscripts -- liturgical manuscripts are represented by Antiphonals, Graduals, Breviaries, Missals, and of course, the Book of Hours. Antiphonary is one of the most popular liturgical books intended for use in the liturgical choirs and characterized by the assignment to principally of the antiphons used in various parts of the Roman Liturgy. It has included general antiphons and antiphonal chants sung by the cantor, congregation, and choir at Mass and in the canonical hours. The Library of Congress has several beautiful [inaudible] where the most beautiful is manuscript number 128. The book was produced in Northern Italy probably at the beginning of the 16th Century. The Book of Hours is a devotional book, extremely popular in the Middle Ages. It is the most common type of surviving medieval eliminated manuscripts. Book of Hours show a huge diversity in the textual and [inaudible] program. But most contain a similar collection of texts, prayers, and psalms for Grecian devotion. The Book of Hours, are mostly written in Latin although there are many manuscripts written in vernacular languages, especially Dutch. A considerable part of them and the most beautiful ones were produced in the [inaudible], Yiddish, [inaudible], and Gelt. Here's an example of a beautiful Book of Hours in the Library collection, manuscript 46. Among the -- among the manuscripts that don't relate to Bibles, liturgy, and Book of Hours are books of various important medieval authors. The collection includes for instance, one of the most popular [inaudible] of the Middle Ages is Torres Scholastica of Petrus Comestor who lived in Paris in the middle of the 12th Century and was a member of the Church of Notre Dame. Peter's nicknames Comestor, Devourer, demonstrates the esteem in which his learning was held. He was a bibliophile and prolific author although much of his work wasn't published. Historica Scholastica is a sacred history written for students. The author begins the book from the Creation and continues it to the end of the incidents related in the Acts of the Apostles. Another important visual text was mentioned is the Golden Legenda, the Golden Legend, Legenda Aurea, a collection of hagiographies. It was written around 1260 by the Dominican chronicler and Archbishop of Genoa, Jacobus de Varagine and it immediately became a late medieval best seller. Thus, more than 1000 manuscripts have survived to date. During the next two centuries, many texts were added to the original Legenda. Among other rare texts, I would like to bring to your attention [inaudible] text entitled, "Tractatus de members beate Maria Virginis," a treatise about the body of the Virgin Mary. This is an old piece of writing that combines the image of [inaudible] with a rather graceless anatomic scrutiny of the Mother of Jesus Christ. Connoisseurs of Medieval Book Binding will certainly appreciate the original bindings which are in the Library of Congress, manuscript 127 is [inaudible] probably around the year 1200. The manuscript is important because of its iconographical style but what is really precious in this it's binding. It is bound in old oak boards, each about 12-millimeter-thick with [inaudible] compartments for [inaudible] and or jewels none of which are [inaudible] both on the face and the edges of the covers showed the former locations of the fasteners. The boards are oversized for the [inaudible] book in its present state and might have been taken from another book. Manuscript 84 is a mid-15th Century copy of the immensely influential Italian theologian and philosopher Thomas Aquinas. The impressive protection arranged for the manuscripts indicates it was highly esteemed. As you can see -- as you can see its bindings are made of yellowish pigskin over thick wooden boards with five round [inaudible] -- -- on each cover made to prevent the rubbing off the surface of the cover. The manuscript is also equipped with an iron chain intended to protect the book from theft. The last interesting binding I will show is that of manuscript 91 which is -- which is a 15 Century Gradual produced in Northern Italy. It is bound in contemporary covers sewn over seven leather bands. The covers are made of reddish-brown goatskin over wooden boards heavily protected and decorated by brass around all the edges with added hexagonal spike like protections. [Inaudible] cover. On the surface of each cover, there are five hexagonal [inaudible] protruding from the octagonal rosettes also [inaudible] four eight-point stars. The metalwork is strong, sometimes even crude. The overall impression being that of armor. Okay, the goatskin of the covers is also blind stumped with fleuron forming a latch rosette around its central metal ornaments. [Inaudible] creating a large rectangular frame closed with a scalloped protecting metal. The catalog I am compiling, which compliments the two volumes written by Svato will include about 150 items. Because of the time restrictions, I have had only one year for all these books. I cannot describe the manuscripts in the same level of detail that Svato has done in his two volumes, but I hope to match the high standards for codicology and paleography established by Svato. The books chosen for the third volume are also different from the ones which formed the previous volumes. Many of these items are classical Roman and Greek authors and their translations into vernacular languages such as Caesar, Plutarch, [inaudible], Terence, Cicero, [inaudible], Virgil, and Plautus. There is a good scope of alchemical and cartographical material, various encyclopedic material represented by the work of Johannes de Sacrobosco and Bartholomeus Anglicus. Several manuscripts deal with music. I am not going to demonstrate a few highlights from the manuscripts that will comprise the third volume. Manuscript 101 is a very important medical work. It is a book called "Thesaurus Pauperum", "Treasury of the Poor," written by famous doctor Petrus Hispanus. Petrus Hispanos was born of noble family in Lisbon between 1210 and 1220 and was called Peter, the son of Julian. After having studied in Paris where he took degrees in all the faculties, he returned to Lisbon. Soon he became Archdeacon of the church in Braga. Then he went to Rome when he was appointed First Physician to Pope Gregory 10th. While in Pope's service, Peter composed his "Thesaurus Pauperum" in which he discussed in detail remedies for the disease of every part of the body. The book quickly became popular and was widely quoted and circulated, with many additions made by later physicians. Later, in recognition of his merits, the Pope appointed Peter as Cardinal Bishop of Tusculum. The Library of Congress possesses a very good late-13th century copy of Peter's "Thesaurus Pauperum," which you can see in the images. The book, typical for medieval period, opens with various zodiac tables -- -- and only later addresses the subject of medicine itself. In this image you can see a typical Italian [inaudible] made by scribes, so that the book binder will not confuse [inaudible] while binding. About 14 manuscripts, many of which were not described by any previous cataloger are kept in the law library. Manuscript L5 is of great importance for all specialists dealing with the Latin Empire in the Orient. The laws of this empire were formed by the leaders of the Fourth Crusade, Baldwin of Flanders, the first Latin Emperor; Boniface, Marquis of Montferrat; and Enrico Dandolo, doge of Venice in 1204. The laws were codified following the model of laws of the kingdom of Jerusalem, which had been compiled a century before. On April 4, 1453, when the Latin Empire had been extinct for almost a century, and only about eight weeks before the Byzantine Empire of Constantinople collapsed, the Venetian doge Francesco Foscari approved the use of this code in Euboea, Negroponte which was a Venetian possession until 1470. The previously-mentioned Rosenwald collection contains a manuscript which is of great importance to the local history of Nuremberg. This manuscript was produced in the year 1555 -- -- and contains the Coat of Arms of many Nuremberg families with their description. And here [inaudible] with the description. The manuscript includes an index of the Coat of Arms at the end -- -- according to the alphabet. Another Rosenwald manuscript I would like to mention is a manuscript of Roberto Valturius who was born in Rimini in 15th-century Italy. He was an engineer and writer. In 1472, he wrote a treatise entitled, "De Re Militari," or "About Warfare." The book consists of a preface with a dedication to Sigismondo Pandolfo Malatesta then follows a list of the classical works on warfare, an introduction to the history of the subject. The book became extremely popular. Various European kings, including Louis 11th of France, the Hungarian King Matthias Corvinus, and the ruler of Florence Lorenzo de Medici had copies of the printed book. Most of the methods of war that Valturius describes are [inaudible] and medieval. Here are the impressive illustrations of various methods and fashion, catapults and battering rams of siege warfare from this book. The last manuscript I would like to show today is a copy of the "Sachsenspiegel," or the "Survey of Saxon Law." This is the most important book of laws and customs of the German Middle Ages. The "Sachsenspiegel" was written in about 1220 as a record of existing customary law. The author was probably the Saxon administrator Eike of Repgow, who wrote it by the order of his liege lord Count Hoyer of Falkenstein. Later, the influence of the "Sachsenspiegel" extended to the laws of several, mostly German-speaking, European countries. The manuscript which is in possession of the Library of Congress was made in the south in Germany and dates to the late 15th century. Article 42 of the book contains a condemnation of slavery as contrary to the law of God. I hope I have managed to demonstrate that the Library of Congress has a very impressive collection of manuscripts, which until now has not been properly described, and as a result, not properly studied. I also hope that all these manuscripts will be digitized one day and put online with proper descriptions, and in this way will become widely available. The researcher who would like to investigate further will certainly find more manuscripts in the Library of Congress, particularly fragments of manuscripts. The Music Division has about 100 unstudied and uncatalogued fragments. The Rare Book Division has about 200 fragments, some of them letters of European kings and Papal Bulls. And also there is a [inaudible] collection in the Rare Books that has many incunabula, a minimum of about 100, whose bindings are leaves of medieval manuscripts. I hope the Library of Congress will encourage and support further investigations in these important resources soon. Thank you very much. [ Applause ] Questions, please. Yes, please? >> Thank you very much. This was really fascinating. In your talk you gave a really wonderful overview of sort of the thematic context of a lot of the manuscripts within the Library's holdings [inaudible] liturgical texts, as well as [inaudible] alchemical works, works of music, works on warfare, and so on and so forth. In terms of the chronological and geographical focuses of the manuscripts here, where do you see the greatest concentrations? Do you see the greatest concentrations in the traditional areas of northern Europe, of England, France, Germany? Or do we also have [inaudible] in the Mediterranean? Topologically what are areas where you see -- >> Ilya Dines: It is much easier to answer the second part of your question about chronology. Most of manuscripts which kept here, they date from 1200 or 11 up to 1600, at least I didn't touch any manuscript after 1600. So I had restrict my research up to 1600. And as to manuscripts themselves, I would say most manuscripts came from France, Germany, and Italy. But this is standard for Middle Ages. About 20% of all manuscripts which we possess were made in Italy. Thank you. Yes, please, [inaudible]. >> Is there question of the material on which the Parisian [inaudible], about 500 of them were hidden. Has it been solved? It can be solved probably on basis of some DNA study or some -- >> Ilya Dines: Oh, [inaudible]. Oh. >> [Inaudible] of the 15th century [inaudible], and the books are [inaudible] about 500 of [inaudible] for students. They are about the size of the [inaudible] and such. And I [inaudible] that it was [inaudible] because for the 500 books. And -- but it was [inaudible] and -- >> Ilya Dines: So thank you very much for the correction. As far I know, there is no one who made DNA of pocket Bible for Parisian origin. This is the only thing I know. >> [Inaudible] find some [inaudible] which is going to be able to DNA studies -- >> Ilya Dines: Thank you much for that. Thank you very much -- Yes, please? >> Hi, [inaudible] this cataloging of manuscript, and it makes me curious, do you have examples or evidence of manuscripts that were deliberately miscataloged, or misplaced, or hidden for ideological purposes? >> Ilya Dines: From a geological -- here or at all? >> Anywhere at all. >> Ilya Dines: Yes, for example, there are many medieval treaties against women, which are usually -- and in this case, the content of manuscripts in many libraries was hidden in catalogs of -- many medieval or post-medieval, 18th and 19th century catalogs. This is the only thing I can think about. >> [Inaudible] nothing [inaudible] books that would have been saved from being destroyed [inaudible] in the [inaudible] various works -- >> Ilya Dines: Here? In Rare Books there are two manuscripts where there are [inaudible] downs which are -- which came from Jewish Bibles. >> Oh. >> Ilya Dines: Yeah, but only two. But only two. >> Fragments or -- >> Ilya Dines: Fragments, fragments. A 13th-century one of Parisian origin, and one probably [inaudible] origin. This all I know. >> The work is fragment? >> Ilya Dines: Yeah. >> Of all the manuscripts that you've looked at while here, which one most excites you, or resonates with you, or do you find the most fascinating? >> Ilya Dines: Well, this -- well, thank you very much, this of course a question of preference. You have seen this book binding of -- where most of [inaudible] -- where all [inaudible] were student. This is my favorite, because this is rare -- very rare and atypical. >> Jason Steinhauer: If there are no more questions -- last chance. Ilya will stick around for a few minutes. If there are no more questions -- oh, was there one? Oh, yes. >> I was actually [inaudible] but I also wondered is there anything in the manuscripts [inaudible] that you wanted to point our attention to, or -- >> Ilya Dines: Actually, most of manuscripts which are in that room, these are manuscripts which are demonstrated, except several manuscripts which are -- except for manuscripts which came from Music Division, and they simply were beautiful, and I want you to see the real treasures of Library of Congress. >> Jason Steinhauer: Well, that's a great note to end it. So please join me in thanking Ilya again. >> Ilya Dines: Thank you, my pleasure. [ Applause ] >> Jason Steinhauer: A quick just tad-bit of administration before we let you go for the rest of your afternoon, there is an event survey circulating around the institution that we are asking those who attend our events to give us some feedback on our events and also feedback on how you found out about our events. So please do fill that out on your way out. We would be appreciative. We are on break here at the Kluge Center for a couple of weeks. Our next event is actually an evening event, on Tuesday evening, April 19th, we will be in the Coolidge Auditorium downstairs holding the second annual Daniel K. Inouye distinguished lecture. And this year's lecture will actually be a conversation between former Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta and former U.S. Senator Alan Simpson. They'll be discussing how America balances its national security with civil liberties. So if you're interested in that topic or other future events, please sign up for a list or check our website. And thank you all again for coming. Thank you to Ilya for a great talk. [ Applause ] >> This has been a presentation of the Library of Congress. Visit us at loc.gov.