WEBVTT

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>> Jim Obergefell: I was --

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Bridget Koontz, that was the
very first hearing on our case.

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You know, we got married on a
Thursday, and by virtue of friends,

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connecting us with a friend

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of theirs who's a civil
rights attorney.

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We met that attorney on
Tuesday; we filed suit on Friday.

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So we filed suit eight
days after we got married.

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And on Monday, 11 days
after we got married,

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I was in Federal District Court,

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and that was when Bridget
Koontz was defending the state

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against our lawsuit.

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And I remember in that
courtroom thinking,

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"Her heart doesn't
quite seem in it."

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[Laughter] And I honestly
thought, "So I wonder,

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was she the last person in
the office this morning?"

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[Laughter] And the decision was,

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"Last in the office
has to go to court."

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So it was -- for me it was
really fun to learn that I picked

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up on something that she
felt she was conflicted.

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She was doing her job, and I respect
her for that; and she did her best,

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she did her job to fight
for the state of Ohio,

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but it was really kind
of nice to learn

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that she was personally
conflicted, and was on our side.

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And I have to say the other
great thing that happened

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in that very first
hearing, when we filed suit,

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we filed suit against the state of
Ohio and the city of Cincinnati.

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And in that very first hearing,
the city solicitor for the city

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of Cincinnati stood up in court and
said -- and I'm paraphrasing this,

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"Your Honor, the city of
Cincinnati agrees with John and Jim.

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Their marriage deserves
to be recognized."

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And for me that was one of the
most powerful experiences I had had

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because, you know, for years,

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Cincinnati was considered the most
gay unfriendly city in the country,

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and to have the city stand up in
court and say, "We're on your side,"

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that was an amazing thing.

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So I was in court for that.

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When Al started a second lawsuit

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about birth certificates,
I was in their hearing.

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I was in every single court
hearing that I could attend.

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>> Travis Painter: And do you feel
that support and that conviction,

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and at what point did you
stop feeling that conviction

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from other attorneys or the judges
behind the bench was like, "Oh,

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this is not as welcoming
as we first felt."

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Is there a point you remember
specifically about that?

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>> Jim Obergefell: Well, that
was certainly when we ended

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up at the Sixth Circuit
Court of Appeals.

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So we won in Federal District Court,

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and the judge issued a temporary
restraining order, which said Ohio,

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when John dies, you have to fill
out his death certificate correctly.

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You have to recognize
their marriage."

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And it was a temporary order,
so the state could not appeal.

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John died three months later, and
his death certificate was accurate.

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Two months after that, the
judge made that order permanent,

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and at that point,
the state appealed.

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Now, at that point, the Sixth
Circuit consolidated our case,

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along with the birth certificate
case our attorney Al was leading,

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as well as four cases from
Kentucky, Tennessee, and Michigan.

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So there were six cases total, and
we went to the Sixth Circuit Court

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of Appeals, which right from
the start, Al our attorney said,

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"I'm just forewarning you this is
considered the most conservative

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appeals court in the country."

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So we went into that
feeling a little uncertain,

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and they ruled against.

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And it was a two-to-one --
it was a three-judge panel,

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and it was a two-to-one
ruling against us.

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So that was the moment
when I thought, "Hmm, okay,

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this isn't going as
well as I'd hoped."

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But it was also the moment when
I could have, you know, decided,

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"I need to take a step back.

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I want to go back to my life.

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John's been gone for about a
month now -- for about a year now,

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and I just want to go
back to being quiet Jim,

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not being in the midst
of everything."

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But I realized I couldn't do it.

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I still hadn't lived up
to my promises to John.

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So that was the low point for
me, but it was also the point

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when suddenly, there
was the silver lining.

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The First Appeals Court ruled

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against marriage equality;
we now had a split.

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So the hope was, "Maybe now the
Supreme Court will take it."

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>> Debbie Cenziper: One of the most
compelling characters, I think,

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in the book is Judge
Daughtrey, who was a female judge

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on the Sixth Circuit Court
of Appeal, Martha Daughtrey,

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who was the one judge who
supported marriage equality

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of the three-judge panel.

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She was on the side
of marriage equality.

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And there's a great
scene in the book

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of Judge Daughtrey
describing how she tried

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to convince these two more
conservative judges right

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after oral arguments in
the Sixth Circuit to rule

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on the side of marriage equality.

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She said something like -- to
Judge Jeff Sutton, "But Jeff,

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these two men were in love."

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And unfortunately, she lost vote.

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And her opinion was, of course,

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right around the world it
was a scathing opinion.

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But in the book, she compares
this fight for marriage equality

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to the fight to gain the right --
you know, to vote, women's rights,

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and in fact has a first-edition
copy of Susan B. Anthony's book

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on the history of women's
suffrage in her office.

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So we were very lucky
to get her to --

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a sitting federal judge
to come talk on the record

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about how she felt about this case.

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>> Travis Painter: That's great.

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Jim, throughout the writing
and working with Debbie,

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can you talk to the process of that,
and were there intimate moments

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of your life, things that
you felt were private,

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or things that were coming out
that were needing to be shared

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in the writing of the book?

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>> Jim Obergefell: Oh, absolutely.

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I can say without hesitation
that writing this book,

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but also having the opportunity
to be involved in this case

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and to fight for this, and to
speak about it, all of it combined,

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it gave me the opportunity
to keep talking about John,

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and to keep him foremost in my mind.

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It kept him alive, and it helped
my grieving process in a great way.

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And Debbie has this incredible way
of pulling details out of my head.

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My memory's always been one of
the forest, not of the trees.

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So she would ask me questions
and ask for memories,

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and it was always the
broader strokes.

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It wasn't the details.

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And she would keep pushing
me, "So Jim, what color shirt?

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What was the weather like?

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What was happening in Cincinnati?

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>> Debbie Cenziper:
"What were you eating?"

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>> Jim Obergefell:
What were you eating?"

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>> Debbie Cenziper: Yes.

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>> Jim Obergefell: And she just had
this incredible way of pushing me

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and making me actually dig deeper
and pull out those details,

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which I would have forgotten,
and didn't realize were there.

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So working on the book was
a really good experience

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because it was healing,
it was therapeutic,

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and I got to relive a lot
of really good things.

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I shed a lot of tears, but
they were healing tears,

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and it was really great.

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So it was this constant back and
forth of conversations, memories,

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writing, how's this, change this,
how's that, change that, love that,

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keep that, add this, and it was
just a really good experience.

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And for me, the fact
that I did know Debbie,

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and it was this phenomenally
successful journalist asking me

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if I wanted to help write a
book about my life about my life

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with John, it was this sense of
comfort that I felt with her,

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comfort and safety because
she wasn't a stranger.

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So it was a really good experience.

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>> Debbie Cenziper: I had to take
Jim back about 40-some years,

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but I had to take out [inaudible],
his civil rights lawyer,

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who was a main character in the
book back about 60-some years.

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So he, you know, described
to me his life growing

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up on a chicken farm
outside of Cleveland in this,

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you know, rural community.

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And his father, you
know, tended to thousands

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of chickens in this Amish community.

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And he got a full ride
to law school at NYU,

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and could have gone on anywhere.

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His friends went onto big-name law
firms, but he wanted to go back

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to Cincinnati to be a
civil rights lawyer.

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And he made, you know, money,
and he bought a house, you know,

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with this small inheritance.

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And he's still living
in that same house.

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So, you know, Al's career
as a civil rights lawyer --

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I've met a lot of lawyers
as a journalist,

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and he is truly an inspiring man.

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I mean, he's just -- he's
scrappy, and he's always rumpled,

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and his tie's all messed up, and
his hair is blowing every which way.

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[Laughter] And his office has
green carpet from the 1970s.

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[Laughter] And, you know, he's just
-- but he's just a true believer.

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And I was really moved by him,

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so much so that I've told
my younger son I want him

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to be a civil rights
lawyer when he grows up.

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[Laughter]

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>> Jim Obergefell: Yes; I mean
I can't say enough good things

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about Al.

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I really think if any other attorney
had knocked on our door five days

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after our wedding, I'm not
sure we would have done this.

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But Al is just -- as Debbie
said, he is this true believer

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about civil rights and
fighting for people.

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And throughout the entire two years,
he never lost sight of the fact

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that there were real
people at the heart of this,

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real people with a real story,

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real people who were being
harmed, and he fought.

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I mean, you'll learn in
the book, he got pushback

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from national organizations saying,
"This is not the right lawsuit.

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This is not the right time for this.

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We don't think you
should be doing this."

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And Al's reply was always --

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>> Debbie Cenziper:
"I have clients."

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>> Jim Obergefell: "I have
clients who are being harmed.

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This is absolutely the
right thing to do."

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And he is just this incredibly
intelligent, dedicated, kind man.

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And --

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>> Debbie Cenziper: He had spent
35 years fighting for the rights

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of women, and children,
and the gay community,

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because his younger brother
is gay and had taken on a case

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against a Catholic high school
back in the '80s, and lost.

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And then he took on the city of
Cincinnati in the early 1990s,

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because the city had passed --
had embedded in its charter a law

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that said you couldn't protect
the gay community with any kind

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of antidiscrimination laws.

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And he spent five years personally
trying to take that law down,

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without pay; I mean, almost lost
his shirt, almost left the practice

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of law, took the case all the way
to the US Supreme Court and lost.

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And so this case was in some
ways redemption, I think, for Al.

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And it brought him back to the
Supreme Court a second time.

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And as you know, arguing in front

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of the Supreme Court is a
make-or-break, you know,

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moment for lawyers in
their legal careers.

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And Al stepped down and decided
not to be the oralist in this case,

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because there was a more experienced
oralist and a brilliant oralist here

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in DC who he felt would
do a better job.

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That's how committed Al was.

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He actually stepped down and didn't
argue the case because he wanted

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to do right by his clients.

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>> Travis Painter: Wow.

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And Debbie, what was
your involvement

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with the LGBT community before
writing, during writing,

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and now a year after
the case, book just came

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out two weeks ago, a week ago?

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>> Debbie Cenziper: Two week, yes.

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>> Travis Painter: Two weeks ago.

16:28.920 --> 16:30.220 align:start
>> Debbie Cenziper: Yes.

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I mean, I was not involved.

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I was really an outsider looking
into the politics of gay rights.

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I mean, obviously, I knew and
supported marriage equality,

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but I had never really
looked into it.

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I mean, you know, I don't write
about those kinds of issues.

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But when I heard about this case,
like I think so many other people,

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I was so moved by the practical
problems that couples faced.

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The fact that John could not get
an accurate death certificate,

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and Jim was not listed

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as the surviving spouse
seemed outrageous to me.

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As an outsider looking
in, it seemed punitive.

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And beyond that, there
were parents in this case

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who couldn't get accurate birth
certificates for their children.

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So here they have done to
the trouble of adopting,

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or having children, you know,
through in vitro and in other ways,

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all they want is to protect
their families; all they want is

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to protect their children.

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And they fact that they couldn't
get a birth certificate as a parent,

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I just couldn't believe that.

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And I think that that was why
this case in some ways spoke

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to so many people, because the
lawyers and the plaintiffs were able

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to show that there were
practical technical problems

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that same-sex couples faced.

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The rest of us may not
have even known about it.

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>> Travis Painter: And Jim.

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>> Jim Obergefell: Well, you know,
from my perspective, Debbie says,

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you know, "I was an outsider looking
in," and I've noticed a change

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in her in our book events, and
she talks about how, you know,

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this case, this writing
this book opened her eyes

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to those very practical daily ways
in which we were being harmed.

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And I think one of my favorite
things I've heard you say, Debbie,

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is that someone asked you,
you know, "What's next for you

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in your professional career?"

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And I love that you
said, "Well, you know,

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I've spent my career mostly
writing about bad people,

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and now that I've written
about this, I think I want

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to keep writing about
more good things.

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I want -- I'm not so concerned
about writing about bad people now."

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And I thought, "What
a lovely thing --

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lovely effect for this
process to have had on you

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to realize you get a lot more --

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you get more out of that than
you had been getting, perhaps,

18:48.040 --> 18:49.690 align:start
out of writing about
bad people," so --

18:49.690 --> 18:51.540 align:start
>> Debbie Cenziper:
Yes; and I think too --

18:51.540 --> 18:55.890 align:start
exactly, but I think this is a book
that's about underdogs, really.

18:55.890 --> 18:58.520 align:start
It's like a David and Goliath story.

18:58.520 --> 19:02.840 align:start
It's about ordinary people who
stepped out of their private lives

19:02.840 --> 19:06.990 align:start
to protect their families, and
the people they care most about.

19:06.990 --> 19:09.490 align:start
And then they ultimately
started advocating, you know,

19:09.490 --> 19:11.460 align:start
for the larger gay community.

19:11.460 --> 19:15.060 align:start
And, you know, I love
those kinds of stories.

19:15.060 --> 19:17.190 align:start
You know, I mean, it's geeky.

19:17.190 --> 19:20.040 align:start
But as I was writing the book,
like I hear like the "Rocky" theme

19:20.040 --> 19:22.440 align:start
in my head, [laughter] and
he's climbing up the steps.

19:22.440 --> 19:26.710 align:start
Because these stories
really are inspiring.

19:26.710 --> 19:30.090 align:start
If you read the book, you'll see
these parents and what they did.

19:30.090 --> 19:34.940 align:start
Do you know after the state of
Ohio was forced by a federal judge

19:34.940 --> 19:37.940 align:start
to give these parents
accurate birth certificates,

19:37.940 --> 19:40.190 align:start
the state was appealing
to the Sixth Circuit,

19:40.190 --> 19:43.200 align:start
so they gave them birth certificates
with asterisks on the bottom

19:43.200 --> 19:45.420 align:start
that said, you know,
"Pending the outcome

19:45.420 --> 19:47.880 align:start
of the Sixth Circuit,"
or something like that.

19:47.880 --> 19:51.400 align:start
Even then, they couldn't get -- all
they want is a birth certificate,

19:51.400 --> 19:52.960 align:start
and who does that really affect?

19:52.960 --> 19:55.950 align:start
It's just -- they're kids, they're
just trying to protect them.

19:55.950 --> 19:59.440 align:start
And so yes, I mean, this
is a story about underdogs,

19:59.440 --> 20:01.780 align:start
and I've always been moved
by stories like that.

20:01.780 --> 20:03.080 align:start
>> Travis Painter: Okay.

20:03.080 --> 20:04.380 align:start
Okay; because now your audience --

20:04.380 --> 20:07.570 align:start
you've had quite an
exposure to LGBT community.

20:07.570 --> 20:09.990 align:start
And it's maybe even broader for both

20:09.990 --> 20:13.400 align:start
of you our alphabet
soup of LGBT/QIAA.

20:13.400 --> 20:21.830 align:start
How do you feel about
that community as a whole?

20:21.830 --> 20:25.900 align:start
What are we doing to address
issues across the board?

20:25.900 --> 20:30.720 align:start
What role, Jim, as an activist,
now the face of an entire movement,

20:30.720 --> 20:34.500 align:start
how do you feel we're addressing
the community as a whole?

20:34.500 --> 20:36.730 align:start
Are we doing enough?

20:36.730 --> 20:39.210 align:start
>> Jim Obergefell: I think
we can always do more.

20:39.210 --> 20:43.680 align:start
You know, I -- for me personally,
over the past two years,

20:43.680 --> 20:47.780 align:start
it's been an important thing
for me to make sure I talk

20:47.780 --> 20:50.620 align:start
about our transgender siblings.

20:50.620 --> 20:53.350 align:start
And I know there's
more to our community

20:53.350 --> 20:57.330 align:start
that I should be talking about,
or I could be talking about.

20:57.330 --> 21:00.510 align:start
But for me over the past couple of
years, you know, marriage equality,

21:00.510 --> 21:02.200 align:start
I knew there would be backlash.

21:02.200 --> 21:07.700 align:start
But the backlash has been so vicious
against our transgendered siblings,

21:07.700 --> 21:12.610 align:start
that it's been a point for
me to make to always talk

21:12.610 --> 21:14.930 align:start
about our transgender community.

21:14.930 --> 21:17.570 align:start
And I also talk about how, you
know, stories change lives.

21:17.570 --> 21:21.340 align:start
And I think this book, it's
nothing but a story of love.

21:21.340 --> 21:23.850 align:start
It's John's and my love, it's
the love of the other plaintiffs

21:23.850 --> 21:26.520 align:start
for their spouses, their
partners, their children.

21:26.520 --> 21:28.900 align:start
And stories do change
hearts and minds.

21:28.900 --> 21:32.390 align:start
And I think about my own experience
within the LGBTQ community.

21:32.390 --> 21:35.690 align:start
You know, up until a little
over year ago, I had no friends

21:35.690 --> 21:37.560 align:start
who were part of the
transgender community,

21:37.560 --> 21:39.990 align:start
at least none that
I specifically knew.

21:39.990 --> 21:44.650 align:start
And over the past 14,
15 months, I've --

21:44.650 --> 21:49.660 align:start
lucky enough now to say that I have
quite a few transgender friends.

21:49.660 --> 21:53.640 align:start
And I realize the change that has
made in me, in my understanding,

21:53.640 --> 21:56.900 align:start
in my attitudes, my outlook.

21:56.900 --> 22:01.730 align:start
And for me that's what this
community is all about,

22:01.730 --> 22:04.540 align:start
it's sharing our stories, and it's
making sure we share the stories

22:04.540 --> 22:06.410 align:start
of everyone who's part
of the community,

22:06.410 --> 22:09.440 align:start
because that's how we change
people's perspectives.

22:09.440 --> 22:11.020 align:start
I mean, that happened
to me personally.

22:11.020 --> 22:15.020 align:start
I had a friend of mine from 1989,
I've known her that long, she said,

22:15.020 --> 22:16.960 align:start
"You know, Jim, watching you --

22:16.960 --> 22:20.300 align:start
having met John, having seen your
relationship and watching you fight

22:20.300 --> 22:23.020 align:start
for John, fight for your marriage,
and everything you've done,"

22:23.020 --> 22:26.770 align:start
she said, "you have changed my
opinion on marriage equality."

22:26.770 --> 22:31.500 align:start
So stories are what change the
countries; change the world.

22:31.500 --> 22:34.470 align:start
And for our community, that's
what we have to keep doing.

22:34.470 --> 22:36.310 align:start
We have to tell each
other's stories.

22:36.310 --> 22:38.650 align:start
And for me that's been
telling stories

22:38.650 --> 22:41.930 align:start
about my transgender friends,
and how important that is,

22:41.930 --> 22:46.060 align:start
and how that affects
change in our country.

22:46.060 --> 22:48.590 align:start
So there's a lot of
work to do, absolutely,

22:48.590 --> 22:52.300 align:start
and unfortunately sometimes parts

22:52.300 --> 22:53.740 align:start
of our community fall
through the cracks.

22:53.740 --> 22:58.530 align:start
And we have to make sure that
we don't let that happen.

22:58.530 --> 22:59.830 align:start
>> Travis Painter: Debbie, anything?

22:59.830 --> 23:01.790 align:start
>> Debbie Cenziper: I think
he -- I think Jim answered it.

23:01.790 --> 23:03.110 align:start
>> Travis Painter:
I know [inaudible].

23:03.110 --> 23:04.410 align:start
>> Debbie Cenziper: Yes.

23:04.410 --> 23:05.710 align:start
[Laughter]

23:05.710 --> 23:07.010 align:start
>> Jim Obergefell:
So in the same vein,

23:07.010 --> 23:08.650 align:start
yesterday marked the
47th anniversary

23:08.650 --> 23:10.890 align:start
since the Stonewall Riots began.

23:10.890 --> 23:15.810 align:start
We have one year since the
Obergefell V. Hodges case.

23:15.810 --> 23:19.270 align:start
And --

23:19.270 --> 23:22.630 align:start
I'm trying to see what's
for the next --

23:22.630 --> 23:27.330 align:start
what do we do we tell the next
generation of LGBT community?

23:27.330 --> 23:32.060 align:start
I know a lot of -- we call
the it the "Pride Parade",

23:32.060 --> 23:33.980 align:start
when historically it
was the Pride March

23:33.980 --> 23:38.120 align:start
because this was a
march outside to riot

23:38.120 --> 23:43.180 align:start
out of city-sanctioned
harassment from police at Stonewall

23:43.180 --> 23:45.540 align:start
with that just becoming
a national monument.

23:45.540 --> 23:51.070 align:start
And what's next for
the LGBT community?

23:51.070 --> 23:52.920 align:start
>> Jim Obergefell: I
think what you're seeing

23:52.920 --> 23:56.070 align:start
within the community is
more of a concentration,

23:56.070 --> 23:59.390 align:start
more of an effort to
preserve our history.

23:59.390 --> 24:02.660 align:start
And the fact that Stonewall was
just named a national monument,

24:02.660 --> 24:05.160 align:start
that is a huge part of that.

24:05.160 --> 24:08.820 align:start
But it's on all of our shoulders to
make sure the younger generation,

24:08.820 --> 24:13.560 align:start
the people who come after us, know
what we went through, and understand

24:13.560 --> 24:17.560 align:start
that things weren't always
as good as they are today.

24:17.560 --> 24:20.130 align:start
There have been people -- so
many people have come before us.

24:20.130 --> 24:23.880 align:start
I mean, I know personally, I
wouldn't be where I am if I weren't

24:23.880 --> 24:28.750 align:start
for my heroes, ED Windsor, Harvey
Milk, Frank Kameny, so many others.

24:28.750 --> 24:33.200 align:start
And if it weren't for the people who
really put their lives on the line,

24:33.200 --> 24:39.620 align:start
and risked everything to fight
for equality and dignity,

24:39.620 --> 24:41.070 align:start
I certainly wouldn't be here.

24:41.070 --> 24:45.630 align:start
I wouldn't have had the luxury of
finding myself in that position.

24:45.630 --> 24:49.570 align:start
And that's what we have to make sure
our future generations don't forget,

24:49.570 --> 24:52.500 align:start
is that it might be
great right now for you,

24:52.500 --> 24:56.750 align:start
but remember who came
before what happened before.

24:56.750 --> 24:58.050 align:start
And also we have to make sure

24:58.050 --> 25:00.950 align:start
that people understand
we can go backwards.

25:00.950 --> 25:04.960 align:start
I mean unfortunately, in so many
ways in our nation's history,

25:04.960 --> 25:07.390 align:start
when we have those steps
forward, fortunately,

25:07.390 --> 25:09.730 align:start
we often have steps backward.

25:09.730 --> 25:13.840 align:start
And we have to make sure that
people understand that and fight

25:13.840 --> 25:17.470 align:start
to keep the progress we've made,
and to keep moving forward instead

25:17.470 --> 25:20.140 align:start
of allowing us to move backwards.

25:20.140 --> 25:22.170 align:start
So for me, it's all about education.

25:22.170 --> 25:24.270 align:start
I mean, I think in so many ways,
that's what it comes down to,

25:24.270 --> 25:27.880 align:start
we have to educate others who
don't know the LGBTQ community,

25:27.880 --> 25:31.310 align:start
and we have to educate those
of us in our community.

25:31.310 --> 25:34.770 align:start
>> Travis Painter: We have such
an acknowledgement and recognition

25:34.770 --> 25:37.980 align:start
for the LGBTQ community,
what they have been through

25:37.980 --> 25:44.330 align:start
and faced throughout so much,
AIDS epidemic, Stonewall,

25:44.330 --> 25:48.980 align:start
so much of the current generation,
myself included, that wasn't a part

25:48.980 --> 25:51.450 align:start
of our -- wasn't a part
of my everyday life.

25:51.450 --> 25:57.670 align:start
And it wasn't until, as Roberta
had spoke on the unfortunate events

25:57.670 --> 26:00.050 align:start
of Orlando, that it was
then again brought back

26:00.050 --> 26:03.800 align:start
to the forefront of we're not done.

26:03.800 --> 26:06.330 align:start
We haven't achieved everything.

26:06.330 --> 26:11.780 align:start
And so that was -- I wanted to hear
your activist perspective on that.

26:11.780 --> 26:14.530 align:start
And how about from a journalist
standpoint, what have you seen

26:14.530 --> 26:17.520 align:start
in the media shifts, changes?

26:17.520 --> 26:22.140 align:start
>> Debbie Cenziper: Well, I think,
you know, one year ago support

26:22.140 --> 26:24.500 align:start
for marriage equality
was overwhelming.

26:24.500 --> 26:26.400 align:start
Public -- all the polls in the CNN

26:26.400 --> 26:30.280 align:start
and in the Washington Post showed
the majority of Americans believed

26:30.280 --> 26:32.890 align:start
in marriage equality and support,

26:32.890 --> 26:36.160 align:start
and loved the LGBT
community; and then Orlando.

26:36.160 --> 26:40.310 align:start
And it definitely seems like
one step forward, one step back.

26:40.310 --> 26:43.910 align:start
And, you know, I think civil
rights movements in general,

26:43.910 --> 26:47.080 align:start
that's kind of often the way it
plays out, whether it's, you know,

26:47.080 --> 26:50.040 align:start
civil rights, or women's
rights, that kind of thing.

26:50.040 --> 26:55.120 align:start
And I think Orlando was --
unfortunately shows that in --

26:55.120 --> 26:57.950 align:start
there are people in the
public, and perhaps even people

26:57.950 --> 27:01.260 align:start
in public office, who still
don't support the gay community.

27:01.260 --> 27:03.230 align:start
It was a hate crime.

27:03.230 --> 27:05.200 align:start
>> Jim Obergefell: And I know for
me, Orlando, one of the things

27:05.200 --> 27:10.830 align:start
that I wasn't expecting personally,
you know, it was a reminder,

27:10.830 --> 27:14.020 align:start
and it was also a moment when I
felt something I'd never felt before

27:14.020 --> 27:17.410 align:start
in my out gay life.

27:17.410 --> 27:21.360 align:start
You know, I've been out since I
was 26, and I can honestly say

27:21.360 --> 27:26.400 align:start
in that time, never once have
I felt unsafe, threatened,

27:26.400 --> 27:32.670 align:start
and I've never felt the direct
recipient of discrimination.

27:32.670 --> 27:35.250 align:start
Maybe I've been ignorant,
maybe I've been clueless.

27:35.250 --> 27:38.670 align:start
I can be fairly clueless
at times, so --

27:38.670 --> 27:43.450 align:start
but that day, I suddenly
felt afraid.

27:43.450 --> 27:51.970 align:start
And for me, that was I think a
much needed reminder that I can --

27:51.970 --> 27:56.640 align:start
I'm fortunate in my life and
I haven't felt afraid before.

27:56.640 --> 28:00.360 align:start
And that was a remind that, "You
know what, Jim, there are kids

28:00.360 --> 28:03.330 align:start
out there every day
who are that afraid.

28:03.330 --> 28:06.720 align:start
Our transgender family everyday
they're living their lives

28:06.720 --> 28:08.060 align:start
that afraid."

28:08.060 --> 28:10.630 align:start
And for me it was a
necessary reminder

28:10.630 --> 28:15.680 align:start
that no matter how
good my life might be,

28:15.680 --> 28:17.030 align:start
it can change in an instant,

28:17.030 --> 28:18.850 align:start
and there's still a lot
of hatred out there.

28:18.850 --> 28:22.280 align:start
And that's one of the those
things I think Orlando has served

28:22.280 --> 28:26.370 align:start
as a wakeup call and a reminder
to many of us in the community

28:26.370 --> 28:29.460 align:start
that no matter how
good things might seem,

28:29.460 --> 28:33.670 align:start
we still have a lot
-- a long way to go.

28:33.670 --> 28:36.980 align:start
>> Travis Painter: I think that's
an awesome charge for all of us.

28:36.980 --> 28:41.260 align:start
And just want to take some
questions from the audience

28:41.260 --> 28:43.760 align:start
if anybody had been thinking
about something that you would

28:43.760 --> 28:47.950 align:start
like to ask one or both of them.

28:47.950 --> 28:50.410 align:start
I'll probably just
give you this mic.

28:50.410 --> 28:53.040 align:start
So if you don't mind to come
up, that way we can make sure --

28:53.040 --> 28:55.730 align:start
this is being recorded, so make
sure that we get it captured.

28:55.730 --> 28:57.660 align:start
There was one in the back.

28:57.660 --> 29:03.450 align:start
Come up, please.

29:03.450 --> 29:04.750 align:start
If possible.

29:04.750 --> 29:07.510 align:start
Sorry, I know there's
technology in the way.

29:07.510 --> 29:16.120 align:start
[ Background Talking ]

29:16.120 --> 29:17.880 align:start
>> Hi. Thanks for being here.

29:17.880 --> 29:23.010 align:start
I was curious about sort of the
resistances that you got from some

29:23.010 --> 29:26.910 align:start
of the, I guess, you know,
big groups that said, "Oh no,

29:26.910 --> 29:29.670 align:start
your case is not the
right case," and all that,

29:29.670 --> 29:33.420 align:start
and how you sort just
persisted through that,

29:33.420 --> 29:36.420 align:start
kind of what persistence you
got, your reaction to that, so --

29:36.420 --> 29:37.880 align:start
>> Jim Obergefell: Well, I can say

29:37.880 --> 29:41.090 align:start
that resistance was all directed
towards Al, our attorney,

29:41.090 --> 29:43.390 align:start
and other attorneys on the case.

29:43.390 --> 29:46.550 align:start
Al did a phenomenal job, and
the other attorneys did as well,

29:46.550 --> 29:51.140 align:start
of keeping us the focus of it,
but also keeping us out of a lot

29:51.140 --> 29:54.010 align:start
of the things that we
didn't need to worry about.

29:54.010 --> 29:57.090 align:start
So that pushback was
directed towards Al.

29:57.090 --> 30:01.560 align:start
So once our case came out, shortly
thereafter the ACLU joined our case.

30:01.560 --> 30:04.560 align:start
And then when he did the
birth certificate case,

30:04.560 --> 30:06.620 align:start
[inaudible] joined that case.

30:06.620 --> 30:09.350 align:start
And there was quite a bit of
pushback saying, "You know,

30:09.350 --> 30:14.850 align:start
this doesn't fit within our strategy
that we had for marriage equality,

30:14.850 --> 30:16.350 align:start
and this isn't the
right thing to do."

30:16.350 --> 30:20.260 align:start
And we only knew about
it after the fact.

30:20.260 --> 30:23.860 align:start
And Al simply said,
"No; I have to do this.

30:23.860 --> 30:26.220 align:start
I have clients who are being harmed.

30:26.220 --> 30:27.790 align:start
This is the absolute
right thing to do."

30:27.790 --> 30:33.790 align:start
And he just kept pushing, and kept
talking, and kept talking about us.

30:33.790 --> 30:37.110 align:start
And he brought them
all over to his side.

30:37.110 --> 30:41.430 align:start
And from that point on, I personally
never, ever felt any pushback

30:41.430 --> 30:43.210 align:start
from any of those national
organizations.

30:43.210 --> 30:46.300 align:start
They were a very cohesive
team of attorneys

30:46.300 --> 30:50.520 align:start
and experts working on our behalf.

30:50.520 --> 30:52.240 align:start
So I thank Al for that.

30:52.240 --> 30:53.680 align:start
He really kept us out of that.

30:53.680 --> 30:54.980 align:start
He made it all about us.

30:54.980 --> 30:57.690 align:start
>> Debbie Cenziper: It wasn't also
-- it was Al, he was the head, head.

30:57.690 --> 31:02.480 align:start
But all of the attorneys in all of
the four states faced this pushback,

31:02.480 --> 31:05.810 align:start
to the point where they actually
asked some of the national groups

31:05.810 --> 31:09.670 align:start
for a funding to support expert
witnesses, or other things

31:09.670 --> 31:10.970 align:start
that lawyers have to pay for.

31:10.970 --> 31:13.950 align:start
Remember, they were working with
no pay, and they couldn't get it

31:13.950 --> 31:17.930 align:start
in the beginning, because the
national groups, perhaps rightly so,

31:17.930 --> 31:21.650 align:start
were worried about the Sixth
Circuit, you know, saying no.

31:21.650 --> 31:23.020 align:start
In fact, one of the attorneys

31:23.020 --> 31:26.790 align:start
in Michigan actually sold
her house to fund this case.

31:26.790 --> 31:30.480 align:start
She was that determined
to keep going.

31:30.480 --> 31:31.780 align:start
I mean, these are lawyers --

31:31.780 --> 31:34.210 align:start
Al had been in business 30-some
years, he could afford it.

31:34.210 --> 31:36.510 align:start
But the other lawyers,
I mean, they just --

31:36.510 --> 31:38.450 align:start
they did all kinds of things
to come up with the money,

31:38.450 --> 31:40.760 align:start
because they basically
worked for free

31:40.760 --> 31:46.780 align:start
for the better part of
two-and-a-half years.

31:46.780 --> 31:48.080 align:start
>> Travis Painter:
Thank you so much.

31:48.080 --> 31:52.050 align:start
Anyone else?

31:52.050 --> 31:53.350 align:start
>> Jim Obergefell: Oh, come on.

31:53.350 --> 31:54.650 align:start
Oh, there's one.

31:54.650 --> 31:56.600 align:start
>> Travis Painter: Please.

31:56.600 --> 32:04.490 align:start
Mr. Bob.

32:04.490 --> 32:10.790 align:start
I will say, this is our first chair
of LC Globe, [laughter and applause]

32:10.790 --> 32:17.750 align:start
as our first chair, so set up our
organization globe 20 years ago?

32:17.750 --> 32:19.050 align:start
You're welcome.

32:19.050 --> 32:20.350 align:start
>> Twenty-five.

32:20.350 --> 32:21.650 align:start
>> Travis Painter:
Twenty-five years ago.

32:21.650 --> 32:22.950 align:start
[Laughter]

32:22.950 --> 32:24.250 align:start
[ Inaudible Comment ]

32:24.250 --> 32:25.550 align:start
Here you go.

32:25.550 --> 32:26.850 align:start
>> Not quite 25.

32:26.850 --> 32:28.150 align:start
I was just wondering about the oral
arguments at the Supreme Court.

32:28.150 --> 32:30.800 align:start
Now, we know that we
can't always predict

32:30.800 --> 32:33.050 align:start
from oral arguments how the
justices are going to rule,

32:33.050 --> 32:35.260 align:start
because there are all these
briefs that get filed,

32:35.260 --> 32:37.720 align:start
and there's all this -- a lot of
work that goes on behind the scenes.

32:37.720 --> 32:40.410 align:start
But I'm wondering what your
impressions were during the oral

32:40.410 --> 32:43.460 align:start
arguments, if there was ever
a time when you felt, "Wow,

32:43.460 --> 32:48.700 align:start
this is going really well," or, "Oh,
my God, this is not looking good?"

32:48.700 --> 32:50.460 align:start
>> Jim Obergefell: You
know, during oral arguments,

32:50.460 --> 32:58.530 align:start
I really tried hard not to let
myself wander too much down pathways

32:58.530 --> 33:03.930 align:start
or avenues of thought, because
I know I'm not smart enough,

33:03.930 --> 33:07.320 align:start
I'm not an attorney, I don't
know the justices well enough

33:07.320 --> 33:10.850 align:start
to have put any thought into, "Well,
that justice has this question,

33:10.850 --> 33:14.510 align:start
so that means X, versus they ask
that question, that means Y."

33:14.510 --> 33:16.220 align:start
I wouldn't let myself do that.

33:16.220 --> 33:19.660 align:start
So I spent my time in oral
arguments just writing notes

33:19.660 --> 33:22.640 align:start
about what was asked, what was said.

33:22.640 --> 33:25.530 align:start
And I really tried hard
not to think too hard.

33:25.530 --> 33:30.320 align:start
Now, I did leave that day thinking,
"I think we're going to win."

33:30.320 --> 33:33.860 align:start
How much of that was what I actually
got out of the oral arguments,

33:33.860 --> 33:37.590 align:start
versus how much of that was just
me knowing I was on the right side

33:37.590 --> 33:40.590 align:start
and being an optimist, I'm not sure.

33:40.590 --> 33:44.380 align:start
But I did leave feeling
pretty optimistic.

33:44.380 --> 33:50.370 align:start
And as far as the oral arguments,
the things I remember was when --

33:50.370 --> 33:53.830 align:start
you know, the whole
argument around, "Well,

33:53.830 --> 33:55.250 align:start
why are we changing the meaning

33:55.250 --> 33:59.060 align:start
of something that's meant the same
thing for millennia, marriage?

33:59.060 --> 34:01.580 align:start
It's meant the same thing
for all of these years.

34:01.580 --> 34:02.880 align:start
Why are we changing it?"

34:02.880 --> 34:04.850 align:start
And it was RBG, wasn't it?

34:04.850 --> 34:07.280 align:start
RBG said, "Well, no, I disagree.

34:07.280 --> 34:09.470 align:start
We have actually changed
the meaning of marriage,

34:09.470 --> 34:12.430 align:start
because women are no
longer considered property

34:12.430 --> 34:15.450 align:start
of their husbands."

34:15.450 --> 34:17.270 align:start
[Laughter] That was one
of my favorite moments.

34:17.270 --> 34:21.330 align:start
And another one was -- and
this was during the arguments

34:21.330 --> 34:22.630 align:start
for the right to marry.

34:22.630 --> 34:26.780 align:start
And I forget who it was, but it
was, again, back to, you know,

34:26.780 --> 34:28.080 align:start
why are we changing this?

34:28.080 --> 34:30.860 align:start
And if we think back to the ancient
Greek civilization, you know,

34:30.860 --> 34:34.240 align:start
we know that same-sex relations
were okay, because we can read

34:34.240 --> 34:35.550 align:start
about that, and we
know that it was part

34:35.550 --> 34:37.640 align:start
of their culture, it was accepted.

34:37.640 --> 34:40.590 align:start
But they didn't have same-sex
marriage, at least not from anything

34:40.590 --> 34:41.890 align:start
that we've been able to tell.

34:41.890 --> 34:44.190 align:start
Well, why do you think that is?

34:44.190 --> 34:48.400 align:start
And Mary Bonauto just
pointblank, "Well, Your Honor,

34:48.400 --> 34:56.670 align:start
I'm in no position to even consider
what ancient Greek philosophers

34:56.670 --> 34:58.050 align:start
believed or thought."

34:58.050 --> 35:03.020 align:start
It was just this really ridiculous
point of, "Well, ancient Greek,

35:03.020 --> 35:04.590 align:start
they didn't, so why should we?"

35:04.590 --> 35:07.930 align:start
And well -- [laughter] and
Mary's response was, "Well,

35:07.930 --> 35:09.580 align:start
how am I supposed to
know what they thought,

35:09.580 --> 35:11.010 align:start
or what their feelings were?"

35:11.010 --> 35:12.320 align:start
I just thought it was
a great response.

35:12.320 --> 35:13.620 align:start
>> Debbie Cenziper:
But the beautiful thing

35:13.620 --> 35:15.230 align:start
about that is what the
justices didn't know is

35:15.230 --> 35:17.990 align:start
that she had studied
the classics in college.

35:17.990 --> 35:21.190 align:start
[Laughter] So she was actually
prepared to answer those questions.

35:21.190 --> 35:24.090 align:start
She wasn't expecting them, but
she was prepared to answer them.

35:24.090 --> 35:26.460 align:start
Because I think -- I remember
Al Gerhardstein, there's a scene

35:26.460 --> 35:28.840 align:start
in the book where he said he
was kind of holding this breath

35:28.840 --> 35:32.300 align:start
because he was not expecting
the ancient Greece questions,

35:32.300 --> 35:35.120 align:start
"Are we really going back that far?"

35:35.120 --> 35:39.030 align:start
[Laughter] And Mary Bonauto is
this brilliant lawyer, and --

35:39.030 --> 35:41.400 align:start
but had never argued
before the Supreme Court.

35:41.400 --> 35:42.700 align:start
But she was prepared.

35:42.700 --> 35:44.410 align:start
She studied the classics,
and she handled it.

35:44.410 --> 35:47.920 align:start
But I think to answer your question,
too -- and Jim can talk about this,

35:47.920 --> 35:50.460 align:start
everybody was listening to Justice
Kennedy, because, of course,

35:50.460 --> 35:52.180 align:start
we all thought he was
the swing vote.

35:52.180 --> 35:55.750 align:start
So every question was analyzed,
and which way is he going to go?

35:55.750 --> 35:58.650 align:start
And, you know, the room kind of
quieted down when he spoke up.

35:58.650 --> 35:59.950 align:start
>> Jim Obergefell: Yes.

35:59.950 --> 36:01.570 align:start
And my absolute favorite moment

36:01.570 --> 36:05.280 align:start
of the entire two-and-a-half
hours was in the last few minutes.

36:05.280 --> 36:06.580 align:start
And the second part

36:06.580 --> 36:08.650 align:start
of the two-and-a-half
hours were the arguments

36:08.650 --> 36:10.110 align:start
for the right to recognition.

36:10.110 --> 36:13.670 align:start
And Douglass Hallward-Driemeier,
who was arguing,

36:13.670 --> 36:15.060 align:start
he was doing his closing.

36:15.060 --> 36:19.240 align:start
And during his closing, as I've
mentioned, every single attorney

36:19.240 --> 36:22.110 align:start
on that team kept the
plaintiffs front and center.

36:22.110 --> 36:23.560 align:start
They always brought it back to us.

36:23.560 --> 36:26.110 align:start
They always brought it back to the
fact that these are real people;

36:26.110 --> 36:27.700 align:start
these are people being harmed.

36:27.700 --> 36:32.740 align:start
And in the last few lines
of his closing statements,

36:32.740 --> 36:36.220 align:start
he brought it back and
talked about John and me,

36:36.220 --> 36:37.670 align:start
and about our relationship.

36:37.670 --> 36:41.750 align:start
And for me, that -- I loved it.

36:41.750 --> 36:44.570 align:start
I mean, it felt like John
and I had the last word,

36:44.570 --> 36:46.950 align:start
which was pretty powerful.

36:46.950 --> 36:48.900 align:start
But I loved that, again,
he brought it back to us,

36:48.900 --> 36:54.400 align:start
and he brought it back to a real
couple who suffered real harm.

36:54.400 --> 36:58.790 align:start
And I really respect that they
did that every chance they had,

36:58.790 --> 37:00.090 align:start
they brought it back to us.

37:00.090 --> 37:01.850 align:start
>> Debbie Cenziper: And this
attorney is a veteran Supreme

37:01.850 --> 37:03.150 align:start
Court oralist.

37:03.150 --> 37:07.290 align:start
He lives here in DC, and I think
he's argued before every circuit

37:07.290 --> 37:11.120 align:start
court in the country, and multiple
times before the Supreme Court.

37:11.120 --> 37:12.960 align:start
And he knows not to get emotional.

37:12.960 --> 37:16.310 align:start
I mean, he knows this is not
what the justices want to see.

37:16.310 --> 37:18.750 align:start
But he was determined
to slip that in.

37:18.750 --> 37:20.050 align:start
>> Jim Obergefell: Yes.

37:20.050 --> 37:21.350 align:start
>> Debbie Cenziper: And I
was told my multiple sources

37:21.350 --> 37:22.650 align:start
in the courtroom.

37:22.650 --> 37:24.320 align:start
Then when we turned around
and went back to sit down,

37:24.320 --> 37:25.620 align:start
he had tears in his eyes.

37:25.620 --> 37:27.390 align:start
So I kind of thought
that that was, you know,

37:27.390 --> 37:28.690 align:start
really, really sweet moment.

37:28.690 --> 37:29.990 align:start
>> Jim Obergefell: Yes.

37:29.990 --> 37:31.290 align:start
>> Travis Painter: That's awesome.

37:31.290 --> 37:39.060 align:start
Did you still want to ask -- please.

37:39.060 --> 37:42.450 align:start
>> Hi. So my question actually has
two parts, if that's all right.

37:42.450 --> 37:43.750 align:start
>> Jim Obergefell: Of course.

37:43.750 --> 37:46.740 align:start
>> So how did you handle, on
a personal and legal level,

37:46.740 --> 37:48.270 align:start
the backlash that you
must have received

37:48.270 --> 37:51.350 align:start
from religious organizations in
the country during your case?

37:51.350 --> 37:57.390 align:start
And something that I've noticed
is that a lot of the hate crimes

37:57.390 --> 38:02.040 align:start
that are directed towards LGBT
members of our community tends

38:02.040 --> 38:05.100 align:start
to arise because of
their interpretation

38:05.100 --> 38:06.520 align:start
of a particular religious text.

38:06.520 --> 38:09.570 align:start
And so do you believe, as an
activist, that it's possible

38:09.570 --> 38:13.310 align:start
to prevent hate crimes against
LGBT members of our community

38:13.310 --> 38:17.490 align:start
without reforming these
religious institutions?

38:17.490 --> 38:18.790 align:start
>> Jim Obergefell:
Ooh, good questions.

38:18.790 --> 38:20.090 align:start
[Laughter]

38:20.090 --> 38:21.390 align:start
>> Thank you.

38:21.390 --> 38:22.690 align:start
>> Jim Obergefell: Wow.

38:22.690 --> 38:24.760 align:start
Okay; so in the first one,
when I get this question,

38:24.760 --> 38:28.780 align:start
I think it always amazes people
when I say that in almost two years

38:28.780 --> 38:31.640 align:start
from the start of our case
to the Supreme Court ruling,

38:31.640 --> 38:37.000 align:start
I got four pieces of mail that
were less than supportive.

38:37.000 --> 38:41.670 align:start
That's it, four, as
opposed to thousands --

38:41.670 --> 38:48.080 align:start
honestly it feels like millions of
cards, letters, e-mails, messages,

38:48.080 --> 38:52.820 align:start
and people stopping me everywhere
I go to thank me, to share stories,

38:52.820 --> 38:57.060 align:start
to tell me why this fight -- why
marriage equality meant something

38:57.060 --> 38:58.440 align:start
to them or someone they loved.

38:58.440 --> 39:00.970 align:start
So for me personally,

39:00.970 --> 39:02.890 align:start
I've experienced nothing
but love and support.

39:02.890 --> 39:06.490 align:start
And it's been an amazing
two years because of that.

39:06.490 --> 39:08.840 align:start
You know, every single time that
happens when someone stops me

39:08.840 --> 39:11.600 align:start
and shows me a photo, talks
about someone they love,

39:11.600 --> 39:15.500 align:start
it's this incredible gift,
and this incredible thank-you

39:15.500 --> 39:20.480 align:start
that the other plaintiffs
and I stood up to fight.

39:20.480 --> 39:24.850 align:start
So personally, I've
experienced almost no backlash.

39:24.850 --> 39:26.630 align:start
And I love that I can say that.

39:26.630 --> 39:29.720 align:start
To me it gives me hope
for our country.

39:29.720 --> 39:38.560 align:start
The religion part, you know,
marriage there's such this feeling

39:38.560 --> 39:43.120 align:start
of ownership to the word
"marriage" by religions.

39:43.120 --> 39:48.720 align:start
And I always did my best just to
reply with, "Well, you know what,

39:48.720 --> 39:51.750 align:start
we go to a government office
for a marriage license."

39:51.750 --> 39:56.910 align:start
It is a civil institution,
no religion is required.

39:56.910 --> 39:58.930 align:start
I mean, any person in this
country can get married

39:58.930 --> 40:01.850 align:start
without having a religion involved.

40:01.850 --> 40:03.460 align:start
So I would always come back to that.

40:03.460 --> 40:07.860 align:start
And I've never quite understood this
feeling that they owned that word,

40:07.860 --> 40:10.780 align:start
that no one else can use it.

40:10.780 --> 40:12.970 align:start
And do I think we will continue

40:12.970 --> 40:20.880 align:start
to see continued hatred directed our
way, or pushback around LGBTQ rights

40:20.880 --> 40:24.140 align:start
from a religious perspective,
absolutely.

40:24.140 --> 40:31.090 align:start
And I think it will be a
process of religious leaders

40:31.090 --> 40:38.790 align:start
and religious people having
that realization that, you know,

40:38.790 --> 40:44.900 align:start
"Love thy neighbor," the
Golden Rule, "Judge not."

40:44.900 --> 40:48.460 align:start
Those concepts seem to be forgotten.

40:48.460 --> 40:53.290 align:start
And I think until religions really
embrace that, and live that,

40:53.290 --> 40:59.620 align:start
and step away from focusing on one
or two lines when they don't focus

40:59.620 --> 41:04.670 align:start
on every other line, until
those types of changes occur,

41:04.670 --> 41:08.800 align:start
I'm afraid we will
continue to see this.

41:08.800 --> 41:12.650 align:start
And that saddens me because,
you know, I was always taught

41:12.650 --> 41:15.880 align:start
that religion is about
loving your neighbor

41:15.880 --> 41:19.730 align:start
and treating them the way
you want to be treated.

41:19.730 --> 41:23.690 align:start
So I'm hopeful one day,
maybe that will be the case,

41:23.690 --> 41:27.350 align:start
but it will take some -- take a lot
of effort, and time, and reformation

41:27.350 --> 41:31.920 align:start
within various churches;
various religious organizations.

41:31.920 --> 41:33.220 align:start
>> Travis Painter: Great, thank you.

41:33.220 --> 41:34.520 align:start
We'll end with the word "hopeful."

41:34.520 --> 41:35.820 align:start
>> Jim Obergefell: Yes.

41:35.820 --> 41:37.120 align:start
>> Travis Painter: [Laughs]
And before we do end,

41:37.120 --> 41:40.450 align:start
I want to invite our current
chair of LC Globe, Nicholas Brown,

41:40.450 --> 41:43.510 align:start
up for some closing remarks,
and some -- thank you.

41:43.510 --> 41:53.130 align:start
[ Applause ]

41:53.130 --> 41:55.250 align:start
[ Background Sounds ]

41:55.250 --> 41:56.550 align:start
>> Thank you.

41:56.550 --> 41:57.850 align:start
Hi, everyone.

41:57.850 --> 41:59.150 align:start
Good afternoon.

41:59.150 --> 42:02.420 align:start
First off, I just would like to
thank Jim and Debbie on behalf

42:02.420 --> 42:06.680 align:start
on all of the LGBTQ employees here
at the Library for taking the time

42:06.680 --> 42:11.640 align:start
out of your busy lives to share your
experiences with us, because to all

42:11.640 --> 42:15.390 align:start
of us you are people who we
look up to as leaders; Debbie,

42:15.390 --> 42:18.220 align:start
you for helping sort of tell
the story of what happened.

42:18.220 --> 42:19.750 align:start
That's a remarkable feat that we

42:19.750 --> 42:23.010 align:start
as library people really,
really appreciate that.

42:23.010 --> 42:25.040 align:start
So thank you for your
contribution to this.

42:25.040 --> 42:29.450 align:start
And to Jim, you're one of those
people who we will for the rest

42:29.450 --> 42:32.350 align:start
of our lives remember having
been able to see in person,

42:32.350 --> 42:37.500 align:start
and to witness, and to
share moments with you,

42:37.500 --> 42:40.110 align:start
especially in this pride
month this year which has been

42:40.110 --> 42:42.440 align:start
so difficult in so many ways.

42:42.440 --> 42:43.890 align:start
You give us inspiration.

42:43.890 --> 42:49.390 align:start
And your tireless commitment to
fighting for all of us is something

42:49.390 --> 42:53.160 align:start
that we can only strive to come this
close to to matching in our lives.

42:53.160 --> 42:55.670 align:start
So thank you, both,
for your contributions.

42:55.670 --> 43:01.150 align:start
As that's kind of alluded to, this
is a huge day for us at the Library

43:01.150 --> 43:04.900 align:start
of Congress, I think, in terms of
working with so many colleagues

43:04.900 --> 43:08.480 align:start
around the Library, especially
Chief of Staff Robert Newlen,

43:08.480 --> 43:11.640 align:start
Law Librarian of Congress Roberta
Shaffer, and various colleagues

43:11.640 --> 43:16.720 align:start
in EEODP Roberto and Eric, and
Travis, of course, to come together

43:16.720 --> 43:19.410 align:start
to celebrate our LGBTQ community.

43:19.410 --> 43:21.490 align:start
We have had a long
time at the Library

43:21.490 --> 43:25.770 align:start
of working towards
gaining more recognition,

43:25.770 --> 43:28.890 align:start
and that is certainly happening
with the support of leaders,

43:28.890 --> 43:30.190 align:start
such as Robert and Roberta.

43:30.190 --> 43:33.400 align:start
So we really appreciate everything
that they're doing for us.

43:33.400 --> 43:35.950 align:start
And we also appreciate the folks
who have taken leadership roles

43:35.950 --> 43:38.310 align:start
in LC Globe over the
past 20-some odd years.

43:38.310 --> 43:40.880 align:start
If you have ever been on the
LC Globe steering committee,

43:40.880 --> 43:44.060 align:start
could you stand up for me
please, so we can recognize you?

43:44.060 --> 43:45.790 align:start
These are the folks who
work behind the scenes

43:45.790 --> 43:47.590 align:start
to make everything possible.

43:47.590 --> 43:55.440 align:start
[ Applause ]

43:55.440 --> 43:58.320 align:start
Another special thank-you goes
out to Leah from the Law Library,

43:58.320 --> 44:00.510 align:start
who has worked very closely
with us on this event.

44:00.510 --> 44:05.310 align:start
[ Applause ]

44:05.310 --> 44:07.330 align:start
And before I go into some
housekeeping announcements,

44:07.330 --> 44:10.200 align:start
I just want to share my impression
of what the Library's role is

44:10.200 --> 44:14.140 align:start
in capturing LGBTQ history.

44:14.140 --> 44:16.610 align:start
All of us that work here at the
Library are charged with collecting,

44:16.610 --> 44:20.630 align:start
preserving, and serving cultural
history, and cultural memory,

44:20.630 --> 44:23.980 align:start
regardless of what demographic,
or regardless of what topic,

44:23.980 --> 44:27.090 align:start
what religion, what subject
area, we're here to do it all,

44:27.090 --> 44:30.220 align:start
which is a really remarkable
charge, and it's a difficult charge.

44:30.220 --> 44:33.840 align:start
But I think with the LGBTQ
collections, in particular,

44:33.840 --> 44:35.800 align:start
we are doing an astonishing job,

44:35.800 --> 44:39.360 align:start
and we're all working
to spread the word.

44:39.360 --> 44:43.280 align:start
And part of that is on you all,
to share with your colleagues

44:43.280 --> 44:45.960 align:start
and friends around the world how
important the Library's LGBTQ

44:45.960 --> 44:47.360 align:start
collections are.

44:47.360 --> 44:50.440 align:start
We have an LGBTQ portal for
Pride Month, which gives you some

44:50.440 --> 44:53.030 align:start
of the highlights, which
is at loc.gov/lgbt.

44:53.030 --> 44:55.780 align:start
You can go in there
to see highlights

44:55.780 --> 44:57.650 align:start
about the Walt Whitman
papers, for example,

44:57.650 --> 45:01.820 align:start
or Leonard Bernstein's collection,
or a vast range of American poets

45:01.820 --> 45:03.930 align:start
who have read their work
here at the Library.

45:03.930 --> 45:05.780 align:start
Our collections are vast.

45:05.780 --> 45:07.970 align:start
As you know, we have
over 160 million items.

45:07.970 --> 45:10.980 align:start
A large portion of that has
to do with LGBT culture,

45:10.980 --> 45:13.220 align:start
and not necessarily in a
direct title, you know,

45:13.220 --> 45:16.270 align:start
it's not "LGBT Issues in the 1970s."

45:16.270 --> 45:19.740 align:start
However, our lives touch
all parts of society,

45:19.740 --> 45:22.190 align:start
because we contribute
to all parts of society.

45:22.190 --> 45:25.250 align:start
So you can go into collections
having to do with any topic,

45:25.250 --> 45:29.350 align:start
and you can see the legacy of our
community having a major impact

45:29.350 --> 45:31.310 align:start
on what we know today as society.

45:31.310 --> 45:34.860 align:start
So thank you all for contributing
to that work, and for those of you

45:34.860 --> 45:36.160 align:start
who are visiting us today,

45:36.160 --> 45:38.170 align:start
please visit our resources
and check them out.

45:38.170 --> 45:39.830 align:start
The Library's open to anyone.

45:39.830 --> 45:42.270 align:start
You just need to present a
photo ID and get a reader card.

45:42.270 --> 45:44.440 align:start
And you should be age of 16 and up.

45:44.440 --> 45:48.870 align:start
And if you'd like to connect with
us on a more research level in terms

45:48.870 --> 45:50.790 align:start
of cultivating LGBTQ collections,

45:50.790 --> 45:54.540 align:start
consider joining our LGBT studies
group, which meets monthly.

45:54.540 --> 45:59.100 align:start
And we work to kind of dig out some
of the hidden treasures relating

45:59.100 --> 46:02.480 align:start
to our area of study, and then
promoting them to the public.

46:02.480 --> 46:04.450 align:start
So I'll leave you with that.

46:04.450 --> 46:06.700 align:start
And just some general announcements.

46:06.700 --> 46:08.760 align:start
We will have book sales in the back.

46:08.760 --> 46:12.200 align:start
The copies of Jim and Debbie's
book are going for $25 of discount.

46:12.200 --> 46:13.580 align:start
So get them while they're hot.

46:13.580 --> 46:16.250 align:start
And Jim and Debbie have
been kind enough to agree

46:16.250 --> 46:18.460 align:start
to sign copies for all of you.

46:18.460 --> 46:21.100 align:start
And also a huge thanks
to the Law Library

46:21.100 --> 46:23.690 align:start
for arranging a light
reception for us.

46:23.690 --> 46:25.480 align:start
So we invite you all
to join us in the back

46:25.480 --> 46:27.520 align:start
of the room before you depart today.

46:27.520 --> 46:31.150 align:start
And one last thing is that our final
Pride Month event is taking place

46:31.150 --> 46:35.080 align:start
on July 6th, slightly outside of
Pride Month, but we're very filled

46:35.080 --> 46:37.750 align:start
with pride, so we can
keep going all year.

46:37.750 --> 46:40.990 align:start
[Laughter] And that is a really
fascinating event, featuring authors

46:40.990 --> 46:43.130 align:start
from the Golden Crown
Literary Society,

46:43.130 --> 46:45.480 align:start
which if you don't know
what that organization is,

46:45.480 --> 46:49.000 align:start
it's an organization that
promotes lesbian fiction writing.

46:49.000 --> 46:51.380 align:start
So we're going to have some really
distinguished authors come here

46:51.380 --> 46:52.860 align:start
to the Library on July 6th.

46:52.860 --> 46:54.160 align:start
Hope you join us for that.

46:54.160 --> 46:57.250 align:start
It's at 11:00 am in
LM139 downstairs.

46:57.250 --> 47:00.200 align:start
And if you're interested in joining
us in more social capacities,

47:00.200 --> 47:04.020 align:start
check out our Facebook group,
facebook.com/group/lcglobe.

47:04.020 --> 47:05.350 align:start
There are things like
parade pictures,

47:05.350 --> 47:07.980 align:start
invites to happy hours,
and that kind of thing.

47:07.980 --> 47:11.170 align:start
So again, thank you to Debbie
and Jim, and also Travis

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for moderating today, and to
Robert and Roberta, and Leah.

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And thank you for being here.

47:17.780 --> 47:21.430 align:start
>> This has been a presentation
of the Library of Congress.

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Visit us at loc.gov.