>> From the Library of
Congress in Washington DC.
[silence]
>> CARLA HAYDEN: Good morning,
and all of the shushing,
and this is so wonderful.
I'm Carla Hayden and
I am very fortunate
because I am the rather
new Librarian of Congress.
And so, we're so ...
yes ... I know, I know.
And just think about what I get
to do as Librarian of Congress.
I get to be here with special people
and to help you think
about special books.
So, we're so glad you're
here and also,
I want to give a special thank you
to the people who are making sure
that we all get these books,
and that's "Everybody Reads."
Could you just stand
up for a minute?
Thank you for helping
to make this possible.
Now, I've got a quiz question.
This is a special month; do
you know what month this is?
Women's Rights, Women's History ...
and we just celebrated
Women's Rights.
That's right.
And guess what?
The reason why we were all going
like this is because we have one
of the most important
and influential women
in the United States, even
the world, right here today.
[applause]
>> CARLA HAYDEN: Now, I'm
sure you know what she does.
She sits on the highest
court in the United States.
>> AUDIENCE: It is
the Supreme Court.
>> CARLA HAYDEN: It's the
Supreme Court and it's right
across the street; right
across from the Library.
And do you know what
they're called, the judges?
>> AUDIENCE: Justices.
>> CARLA HAYDEN: Justices ...
great. Have you all been practicing?
>> AUDIENCE: Noooo ....
>> CARLA HAYDEN: Okay, because
the name of the book is "Dissent,"
so we have 'yes' and
'no' and all that.
We have a great author
here today as well,
and she just wrote a wonderful
picture book called, "I Dissent."
And you just heard ...
do you know what dissent means?
>> AUDIENCE: I agree.
>> CARLA HAYDEN: Or not.
>> AUDIENCE: I admire?
>> CARLA HAYDEN: You could
agree but you don't agree.
It means that some people
agree and some people don't.
And Justice, if I get this
wrong, please correct me.
But we are delighted that Ms.
Levy is here who wrote the book,
and she's going to interview
the lady that we're going
to give a big hand
to, Chief Justice ...
oops. Sorry.
Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg.
[applause]
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Thank
you, Dr. Hayden,
for that lovely introduction.
I'm so happy to be here for
several reasons: to share this space
with someone who, to
me, is a true hero.
To also be here and spend
some time with you students
in the Young Readers Center, and to
be here at the Library of Congress,
largest library in the
world - did you know that?
- where I did research for
this book, "I Dissent,"
and I've done research for
other books that I've written.
And I'm still doing research for my
book that's going to come out ...
let's see, you all are in 3rd grade?
... that will come out
when you are in 5th grade.
That's how long sometimes it
takes to get a book published.
As you know, I wrote this book about
this very accomplished person next
to me, who holds one of the
highest offices in our land.
And I focused the book on
how she has been disagreeing
with things ever since
she was a little girl.
Now, there's no disrespect in
this focus because, as you'll see,
Justice Ginsburg's example shows
that disagreeing doesn't
make you disagreeable.
And in fact, that we can make change
in the world one disagreement
at a time.
So, I'm going to read
some pages from my book
so you can see how Justice
Ruth Bader Ginsburg started
out as little Ruth Bader.
Then, I'll ask Justice
Ginsburg some questions
that I think you'll want
to hear the answers to.
And then you'll have the chance
to ask some questions of your own.
So, I'm going to start
with, "I Dissent."
"I Dissent" the book is called,
"Ruth Bader Ginsburg
Makes Her Mark."
You could say that Ruth Bader
Ginsburg's life has been one
disagreement after another;
disagreement with creaky old ideas,
with unfairness, with inequality.
Ruth has disagreed,
disapproved, and differed ...
she has objected, she has
resisted, she has dissented.
Disagreeable?
No. Determined?
Yes. This is how Ruth Bader
Ginsburg changed her life and ours.
In 1940, little Ruth's neighborhood
was vibrant with immigrants ...
people from Italy, Ireland, England,
Poland, Germany, Jews from Russia
like Ruth's father, Nathan Bader.
People from different cultures
with different holidays,
foods, and traditions.
But in all these families
in Brooklyn, New York
and in families everywhere, one
thing was pretty much the same.
Boys were expected to grow up, go
out in the world, and do big things.
Girls? Girls were expected
to find husbands.
Ruth's mother disagreed.
Celia Amster Bader thought
girls should have the chance
to make their mark on the world,
so she took Ruth to the library.
On the shelves were stories of
girls and women doing big things.
Ruth read about Nancy
Drew, girl detective.
She discovered Amelia
Earhart, daring aviator.
She learned of Athena,
goddess of Greek myths.
Here were independent girls
and women taking charge.
Ruth read her way into this world.
Around her, the sweet smell of
books blended with savory aromas
from the Chinese restaurant
that was downstairs.
Delicious!
A girl could be anything.
Sometimes Ruth and her parents took
car trips out of the crowded city.
As they drove past a hotel in
Pennsylvania, Ruth saw a sign ...
"No dogs or Jews allowed."
This is how it was in those days.
Hotels, restaurants, even
entire neighborhoods announcing,
"No Jews, no colored, no Mexican.
Whites only."
Ruth and her family were Jewish;
this was prejudice pure and simple.
Now it was Ruth's turn to disagree.
She disagreed by never forgetting
how it felt to read such words.
She never forgot the
sting of prejudice.
In elementary school, Ruth
was excellent in some classes,
and less excellent in others.
Her favorites were English, history,
and gym; in those she did well.
But then, there was handwriting.
Back then, teachers told
left-handers they should try
to write with their right hand.
Ruth's left-handed penmanship
was so bad she earned a
"D" on the penmanship test.
She cried.
Then she objected.
Then she protested.
(Pardon me; I want to get in
every single one of those words.)
She protested by writing with her
left hand from that day forward,
and it turned out she had
quite nice handwriting.
That's what I'm going to read,
and from there, Ruth, excuse me,
Justice Ginsburg, went on to
disagree, resist, persist,
not concur, and dissent
- which means disagree -
and dissent her way into big things.
Also to agree, support, lift up,
and defend the idea she believed in.
She went to college.
She became a lawyer, a
professor of law, a judge,
and a Justice of the Supreme
Court of the United States,
the highest court in our nation.
Justice Ginsburg, I
know you didn't sail
through all these accomplishments
without challenges,
so I do want to talk to
you about your school days
and some of those challenges.
But first, let's make sure
everyone understands the job
that you do today.
So, will you tell these
students something about the role
of the Supreme Court, how it works?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: What
does the Supreme Court do?
The Supreme Court is the
highest court in the land
to decide questions
involving federal laws.
That means laws passed by
Congress, or the Constitution
of the United States,
which is our highest law.
And if any law passed by Congress is
in conflict with the Constitution,
the Constitution prevails.
So, our job is to say
what the national law is.
Sometimes, Congress writes
statutes that are very dense,
not easy to understand, and people
disagree about what they mean.
So we interpret statutes,
laws passed by Congress,
and our highest law,
the U.S. Constitution.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: And there
are nine Justices normally,
and there is a Chief Justice,
currently Chief Justice Roberts.
So, does the Chief Justice
decide what the decision will be
and the rest of you
just go along with him?
[laughter]
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG:
The way it works is this.
We spend lots and lots
of time, hours and hours,
reading about the cases that are
then argued before the Court.
We start sitting ...
this Monday coming up,
we'll sit for two weeks.
And on Wednesday, we'll all meet
together to talk about cases
that were argued on Monday.
And then we meet on Friday to talk
about the Tuesday and
Wednesday cases.
We go around the table; the
Chief Justice speaks first,
but he has only one vote
as the rest of us do.
We go around in seniority
order, and when each one
of us has said how we think
the case should come out,
sometimes we talk across the table.
When all of us have
given our opinion
on how the case should come
out, if the Chief Justice is
in the majority, he will
say who writes the opinion.
And if he's not in the majority,
then the most senior Justice who is,
nowadays that's often Justice
Kennedy, will assign the opinion.
And then we write opinions.
That's the biggest difference, I
think, between the way courts work
and the way the legislature,
Congress, works.
If you're a member of Congress, you
can just vote "yea" or "nay," yes
or no, but we can't do just that.
We have to write our reasons
for every decision we reach.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: And that is why
we end up with volumes and volumes
of written opinions
from the Supreme Court,
and that creates part of our law.
Now, let's go from the Court
back to your school days.
We just heard that your neighborhood
in Brooklyn was full of immigrants
and children of immigrants.
Your father was an
immigrant from Russia.
What type of work did
your parents do?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG:
My mother was a bookkeeper
in the New York garment district,
and my father was a
manufacturer of fur coats.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Of fur coats.
And as parents, would
you say they were strict?
Just wondering.
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG:
My mother was very strict.
My father spoiled me.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: And what did
you like to do as a girl hanging
out with other kids
in your neighborhood?
What types of games and did
you ever get into mischief?
Were you a good, good girl?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG:
Games first ...
jump rope, stoop ball.
Mischief? Climbing garage roofs.
The way the neighborhood was,
you could go from one
garage to the other.
I don't think that my parents were
very happy about my doing that.
And then later, there was
skating and bicycle riding.
And when the weather was
warm, going to the beach
in a place called Coney
Island in Brooklyn.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: How
would you get there?
How'd you get to Coney Island?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Sometimes
by bicycle, sometimes by bus.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: In my reading, I
mentioned some classes at school
that you were good in and some
that you were less good in.
I didn't get to talk about Home Ec,
that is, sewing and cooking class.
You were required to take sewing
and cooking class as
a girl, weren't you?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG:
All the girls were, yes.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Did the boys
take sewing and cooking?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Oh, no, no.
The boys took shop.
The boys worked with saws and
they made things out of wood,
and the girls made
chocolate pudding.
[laughter] Which, one
time, instead of reaching
for the sugar, I reached
for the salt.
And we had to eat ...
at the end of the class we
had to eat whatever we made.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Well, I was going
to ask how did that go for you,
but I think you just told
us how that went for you.
Also, I know that you enjoy,
and enjoyed when you were
a girl as well, music.
I know that you very much enjoy
opera today, and I also understand
that you were introduced
to opera at a young age,
about the age that you children are.
But in school, there was no
opera class, so will you tell us
about your chorus class and
your participation there?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Yes, in that
class, all the children were divided
into two groups, and one
group was called the Robins,
and the Robins could sing.
And the other group was
called the Sparrows,
and Sparrows were told never to
sing out, only to mouth the words.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Did
you follow that rule?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG:
In the chorus class?
I had no choice but to do it.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Did you ever sing
just for pleasure, for yourself,
after you were told you
were just a sparrow?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Oh, yeah.
In the shower and in my dreams.
But I should say that
I did play the piano,
and then I also played the cello,
which is a very nice instrument,
so I could be in the
school orchestra.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: And when you were a
little older, maybe in junior high
or high school, what other
activities did you participate in?
So, you were in the
school orchestra;
did you have any after
school activities?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Yes, I
was what we called "a twirler."
Do you know what a baton is?
Have you seen them
at sporting events?
So, I went to every football game,
and at halftime we
twirled the batons.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: You twirled.
Were you good at it?
Were you a good twirler?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Yeah.
I was pretty good at it.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Justice Ginsburg,
when you went on to college
in the 1950s, many people assumed
that girls were there
only to find husbands.
What was that like knowing that
that's what a lot of people
around you thought when
they saw you in college?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: I went
to a school in New York state.
It was called Cornell
University, and in that school,
there were four boys to every girl.
So yes, that was a school where
parents would send their girls
because if you couldn't find
a husband at Cornell, then,
four-to-one, you were hopeless.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: You did meet a young
man there named Marty Ginsburg.
Did he also think you were
in college to find a husband?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Maybe he
was in college to find a wife.
Anyway, one of the
reasons I loved him
so much is he cared
that I had a brain.
And so we were very good friends.
We talked about everything.
He would ask me what
classes I was taking
and then he would sign
up for the same classes.
Something I didn't know then
but I soon found out ...
I already told you that
cooking was not my strong point,
but my husband was a great chef.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: So, who did
the cooking in your family?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: So it
started out, I was the everyday cook
and my husband was the
weekend and "company" cook.
I was never allowed
to cook for guests.
I had one cookbook, it was
called "60 Minute Chef,"
and that meant nothing
took longer than one hour
from the time you got home 'til
the dinner was on the table.
I had seven things that I made,
and when I got up to number seven,
we went back to number one.
So my daughter, when she
was about high school age,
noticed an enormous difference
between her daddy's cooking
and her mommy's cooking,
and she decided daddy should
be the cook every day,
not just on weekends.
And so it has been now for ...
well, he died in 2010.
But my daughter, because she was
responsible for my husband taking
over the kitchen, now comes
once a month to cook for me.
And she fills the freezer with food,
and then when the supply
is finished,
she comes back and cooks some more.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: That's a very
nice thing for a daughter to do.
Is she a good cook, too?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Yeah,
she learned from the master.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: I'll add that
Justice Ginsburg's daughter,
Jane Ginsburg, is also a
professor at Columbia Law School.
So she cooks, teaches law,
and does a few other things.
Today, things have changed from
when you were in college more
and in high school and younger.
More people understand that girls
and boys both go to school to learn,
to be able to grow up
to do interesting work,
and to take control of
their own lives as adults
because they have an education.
But, Justice Ginsburg, what would
you like the students to learn
or to understand from your
own less-than-equal experience
as a girl and young woman?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: I
would like the students to know
that they can be free
to be you and me.
That is, free to do whatever you
have the talent and are willing
to work hard enough to do;
that there are no closed doors.
So, it used to be ...
you heard Debbie tell
you that there was a time
when women were not allowed
to be pilots in planes.
Men were not allowed to be nurses.
Now, there are no such restrictions
anymore, so a girl can grow
up thinking, "Whatever I like to do,
if I'm willing to work for it enough
to achieve the learning that
I need to do it, I could do it
and nobody will say - as they often
said to me - 'We really don't want
to have any lady lawyers
in this place'."
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Well, you became
a lady lawyer and you specialized
in cases where you were fighting
against unequal treatment of men
and women, girls and boys.
And in the cases you
brought, you argued to Judges
that a person's choices shouldn't
be limited just because she happened
to be born a girl,
happened to be born a boy.
Can you tell us why you felt,
and still feel I assume,
so strongly about this?
Tell us why ...
And also, if I can make
a two-fer question here,
tell us why you thought society had
such rules limiting
what girls could do.
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: I
thought it was a tremendous waste
of people's talents.
Boys and girls have
a range of talents,
and to say that boys can only do
this and girls can only do that,
was just wasting the
talent of a lot of girls
who could do what boys were doing,
and boys who could do
what girls were doing.
So I thought everybody
would be better off
if people could do whatever it is
that they have the talent to do,
and it shouldn't matter
whether they're a boy or a girl.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Why do you think
those rules, those limitations,
were put on girls, for example?
Why did society say, "No, young
Ruth, you shouldn't be a lawyer."
Or to somebody else, "You
shouldn't be an airline pilot
because you're a woman."
Why do you think?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Well, some
people said all those "no's" were
to protect women, so
they couldn't be pilots
because that was a
dangerous occupation.
The important thing to understand,
it turned out women were
not really protected.
Instead, as one Supreme Court
Justice said, they were in a cage
and couldn't get out to
do what they wanted to do
and were ready, willing,
and able to do.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: I started out
talking about you as someone
who has disagreed with
unfairness and with discrimination,
and with inequality since you
were a girl, so I would say
that you are an awesome arguer.
I think you're a champion disagreer,
so now I'd like to get
back to that in this way.
Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia
and you disagreed very
frequently on legal matters.
And students, I want to make sure
you understand that Justice Scalia,
who was one of the other Justices
on the Court, sadly, died last year.
But when he was alive,
the two of them ...
oh my goodness.
They disagreed strongly
on legal matters.
Will you tell students, first,
about the back and forth that went
on between you and Justice Scalia?
That is, did you listen
to each other?
Did you just show each other the
hand and say 'don't talk to me?'
How was that?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: When Justice
Scalia and I disagreed, and I wrote,
say, the opinion of the Court and he
dissented, or he wrote the opinion
of the Court and I dissented, my
opinion was always much better
in the end because he pointed
out all the weak spots,
and then I was able to fix them
and make the opinion stronger.
Justice Scalia was
very good at grammar.
His mother was a grade
school grammar teacher
and his father taught Latin.
So if I made mistakes in grammar,
he would call me on the telephone;
wouldn't tell the rest of my
colleagues, and he's say, "Ruth,
you know, you really should use
plural here instead of singular."
And I would sometimes tell him,
"Your dissent is so overheated,
you're going to lose people that
you might otherwise persuade
if you moderated the tone."
He didn't always listen
when I said that.
But I loved him and I've missed him.
One reason is, he had a wonderful
sense of humor and he made me laugh.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: So the two
of you disagreed strenuously,
but were great friends.
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Yes.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Since we're here in
a great library, and I know that you
as a girl went to the library
in Brooklyn with your mother,
I want to ask why was reading
important to you as a child,
and why do you think it's important
for our students here, reading?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG:
Because it opened vistas to me
about far away places and
people who were different.
My mother would leave me
at the library and I'd pick
out five books to take home.
And we'd check them out and
bring them back the next week,
and find more books.
Something that I loved that
was not real, Greek mythology.
You mentioned Athena,
the goddess of wisdom.
I love to read about the Greek gods.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: I wonder, what is it
about the Greek gods
and mythology ...
Percy Jackson, you all; right?
Weren't we talking
about that before?
What is it about that
that attracted you so?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG:
Well, for one thing,
there was more equality
among the Greek gods
with Athena the goddess of wisdom.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: There was equality
among the gods and goddesses.
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Yes.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: And
I know that you have
to read a great many
legal papers for work,
but do you find time
to read for pleasure?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Yes,
I wish I could do a lot more
but I always take home a lot of work
from the Court; a lot
of reading to do.
But the last thing I do
before I fall asleep,
if I've done a good job, I did all
my homework, and I get into bed
with a good book and
read a few pages,
usually fall asleep before ...
>> DEBBIE LEVY: I think
that's a good habit.
Much as we love to read, a
person cannot read all the time.
Sometimes, one has to
get up and move around.
And you, Justice Ginsburg,
are known to spend some time
at the gym in the Supreme Court.
You're an exercise buff, and I think
the students would be interested
in your exercise routine.
Can you talk to them about it?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG:
Tonight, I will meet my ...
we call him "personal trainer,"
and we will spend an hour together
doing all kinds of things ...
lifting weights, doing pushups,
planks, using the elliptical glider.
I started working with a
personal trainer in 1999,
long before you were born.
And you know, the reason I started
was because I had been very sick.
I had a disease called
cancer, and when I was finally
through all the treatments,
I was not in very good shape.
I was very weak.
So my husband said, "You'd better
get yourself a personal trainer."
Which I did.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: And you've
been exercising seriously ever
since then.
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Yes.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: That's a long time.
Now, I think I have time
for a couple more questions
before opening it up to you.
I have two final ones, and that
is, what is the best advice
that you can give us on how
to react when someone argues
with you by saying mean things?
That is, attacks you rather than
engaging or going after your ideas?
What about when it gets personal
as arguments sometimes do?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: My
best advice is to tune out.
Don't try to argue back.
Don't try to be mean in return.
That's not going to
get you anyplace.
Try to use the good reasons you have
to persuade people, and for people
who don't want to listen,
just tune them out.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: And another
question about advice,
what is the best advice that you
can give us for changing things
in the world as you have changed
things in the world as a lawyer
and as a Supreme Court Justice?
We're not all going to be lawyers
and Supreme Court Justices,
but what's your best advice
for how we can change things
in our own communities when
we think that they are wrong?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Join
together with other people who feel
like you because there's
strength in numbers.
If you just try to do
things all by yourself,
you're not going to get very far.
You need a team to work with you to
achieve what you think is important.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Thank you.
Now, I could go on and on and on,
but I don't want to tread on time
that we've got for
student questions.
So, may I open it up for
student questions and then ...
if you don't have any, I'll
just keep asking my questions.
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG:
Looks like we have one.
>> AUDIENCE: Were you involved
in the Women's Rights March?
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Were you involved
in the Women's Rights
March, the one in January?
That's your question?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: I
wasn't in the March itself,
but I met with people who were
in the March, and I had dinner
with them the night before.
But many people I know ...
my granddaughter was in the March.
People who work for the government
tend not to be in marches,
but I thought it was a wonderful
thing because it was so peaceful.
It wasn't at all rowdy; there
were no episodes of violence.
There were just people, as I said
before, who were on the same team,
standing up and saying women have a
lot to contribute to this country,
and don't shove them aside.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: How
about right behind you?
>> AUDIENCE: What year did you
start at the Judicial Branch?
>> DEBBIE LEVY: What year did
you start in the Judicial Branch?
So, when did you first
become a judge?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: I
first became a judge in 1980.
I was not on the Supreme Court, but
I was on the U.S. Court of Appeals
for the District of Columbia circuit
at the U.S. courthouse
on Constitution Avenue.
I was there for 13 years, and
I was appointed to that Court
by President Jimmy Carter.
And then I was appointed
to the Supreme Court
by President Bill Clinton.
>> AUDIENCE: Was it your dream to
become a Supreme Court Justice?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Did I
dream to become a Supreme ...
?
>> DEBBIE LEVY: That's the
question, was it your dream
to become a Supreme Court Justice?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: People of
my advanced age, women who went
to law school when I did,
dreamed of getting a job
in the law, any job in the law.
There were no women judges so it
would have been an impossible dream.
In fact, the first woman appointed
to a federal trial bench was
appointed by Truman in 1948,
and there had only been one
woman on a U.S. Court of Appeals;
she was appointed by Franklin
Delano Roosevelt in 1934.
And when she retired,
there were none again.
So it would have been ...
it could be something that was
beyond the realm of possibility.
In fact, I didn't dream
about becoming a judge
until Jimmy Carter became President.
And the reason I started then
is, he looked around at people
who were judges in the United
States and he said, "You know,
they all look like me, and
that's not how the great United
States looks."
When he said "they
all look like me,"
he meant they were white
and they were male.
So he was determined to appoint
members of minority groups and women
in numbers to the federal bench.
So he appointed about 25 women
to the federal trial Court,
and 11 to Courts of Appeals,
and I was one of the lucky 11.
>> AUDIENCE: Why did you want to
become a Supreme Court Justice?
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Why did you want
to become a Supreme Court Justice?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG:
Because I think it's the best
and the hardest job a
law-trained person can have.
We have no cases that are
easy because most of the cases
that we hear are cases
where other courts ...
I'd better get myself
another Constitution;
this one's falling apart ...
So, my job is to do
a lot of reading,
a lot of thinking, a lot of writing.
It's hard, but it's very
satisfying when I finish an opinion
and I can say, "Yes, that's good.
I hope it will persuade
the people who read it."
>> AUDIENCE: Did you actually
write the little girl [inaudible]?
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Can you repeat that?
>> AUDIENCE: Did you actually
write the little girl who dressed
like you a special message?
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Oh, did you actually
write the little girl who dressed
like you a special message?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG:
Yes, I certainly did.
Her name is Michelle.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Michelle, for those
of you who are unfamiliar with this,
dressed up for her school's "Dress
Like a Superhero" Day
as Justice Ginsburg.
>> AUDIENCE: Did you always fight
for civil rights of your ...
did you ever fight for
civil rights to be a woman
to be in the Supreme Court?
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Did you
ever fight for civil rights?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG:
Yes, I certainly did,
and I thought it was
great that I was ...
people were able to come
to the courts and say,
what is happening is wrong and it
doesn't fit with our Constitution.
One of my favorite things
in the Constitution is
in the 14th amendment,
and it's known as the
"Equal Protection Clause."
So, let me read to
you just as it is.
It says, "Nor shall any state deny
to any person equal
protection of the laws."
And let me ask you
a question in turn.
The word "equal" becomes part of
the Constitution in the year 1868.
The main part of the
Constitution was written in 1787.
Now, why do you suppose the word
"equal" doesn't appear until 1868?
What's the answer?
>> AUDIENCE: I think that
it only appeared in 1868
because people wasn't
allowed to be like ...
couldn't go to school with
white people or nothing,
but they couldn't learn with ...
they didn't have a lot
of books or nothing
like the white people did,
and they wasn't equal.
They couldn't go to school
with them or nothing.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Do you have
another answer to that?
Or you have a question?
We'll take another, sure.
>> AUDIENCE: When did she become
a lawyer, and how old was she
when she became a lawyer?
>> DEBBIE LEVY: How old
were you, Justice Ginsburg,
when you became a lawyer?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG:
When I became a lawyer ...
let's see.
I was 26.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Who
hasn't asked a question?
>> AUDIENCE: Why did you want
to stand up for equal rights?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Because I
thought everybody should have a fair
chance to do what they can do best,
and I also thought about how I would
like the world to be for
my children; I have one boy
and one girl, and now
my grandchildren;
I have four grandchildren
and two step-grandchildren.
Some of them are boys, some
are girls, and I want the world
to give them a fair chance to
do whatever they want to do
if they're willing to do
the hard work that it takes.
And nobody should be able to
say, "No, you can't do this"
because you're a boy or
because you're a girl.
>> AUDIENCE: Would
you want your children
to be a Supreme Court Justice?
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Would
you want your children
to be a Supreme Court Justice?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG:
Well, the chances for anyone
to be a Supreme Court
Justice are not large.
There are only nine of us,
and there are thousands
and thousands of lawyers.
I want my children to do
things that they can do well
and that gives them satisfaction.
My daughter is a law teacher, and my
son makes exquisite compact discs.
He loves music, and so
that's what he does.
>> AUDIENCE: Do you still
work at the Supreme Court?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: As soon as
I leave you, I'm going to go right
to my desk at the Supreme Court.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: It's
right across the street.
It's right next door.
Who hasn't asked a question?
I'll let you choose.
>> AUDIENCE: Is it
hard for you to get
through all the cases that you have?
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Is it
hard for you to get
through all the cases that you have?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG:
Yes, it is, it is.
It takes a lot of staying
power, a lot of stamina,
because sometimes I'm reading
things to prepare for the cases
that will be argued
and I fall asleep.
And then ...
somebody taught me a trick.
Hold a pencil, and when it drops,
then you know you're falling
asleep and you should wake up.
>> AUDIENCE: Do you have a
place where you like to work,
prepare to work, when
you're doing your job?
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Do you have a
place that you prefer to work
when you're doing your job?
And I imagine we mean at the
Court or maybe not at the Court.
Where do you like to work?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: At the
Court I have a very nice office.
At home, I work in the
bedroom and I've always done
that from the time we
had a small apartment ...
there's the bed, and
there's a writing table,
and there's bookshelves, and
that's my favorite place to work.
My husband used to work
on the dining room table
and I worked in the bedroom.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Anybody else?
I don't want to ignore
the people behind you.
>> AUDIENCE: On your cases did
none of the Justices supported you,
did you have to agree
on the case, or no?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG:
Do I have to agree?
Five people have to agree in
order for the case to be decided.
So, if five people can agree, then
the Court will make a decision.
But the four people who don't agree
can write the reasons why they don't
agree, and that's what's
called "a dissenting opinion."
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Anybody
on this side?
We can stick with ...
yes?
>> AUDIENCE: Did you
break any world records?
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Did you
break any world records?
Hmm.
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG:
I can say, one.
I am the longest sitting
Jewish Justice.
There have been in history
eight Jewish Justices,
and just this month I
am at the Court longer
than Justice Frankfurter.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: Mazel tov.
[applause]
>> Who has not had a question?
>> AUDIENCE: Did you ever ...
were you in the Supreme
Court when the Lovings was
in the Supreme Court
trying to get their rights?
>> DEBBIE LEVY: When who
was in the Supreme Court?
>> AUDIENCE: The Lovings.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: The Lovings,
as in Loving against Virginia.
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: I was
a lawyer at the time of Loving
against Virginia, and I knew one of
the lawyers that represented them
because the American Civil
Liberties Union took their case
to the Supreme Court.
There's a wonderful movie
called "Loving" about them.
>> AUDIENCE: How long was you
working at the Supreme Court?
>> DEBBIE LEVY: How long have you
been working at the Supreme Court?
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG:
Almost 24 years.
[laughter]
Longer than any other
job I've ever held.
I was a law teacher for 17 years,
Court of Appeals judge for 13 years,
Supreme Court Justice
for almost 24 years.
>> AUDIENCE: What was
your first case based on?
>> DEBBIE LEVY: What was
your first case based on?
Maybe the first ...
well, either a first Supreme
Court case or some other case
that didn't go to the Supreme Court.
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: The first
case that went to the Supreme Court
where I wrote the brief,
it was kind of a sad case.
It was a couple who had a
young son, and then the mother
and father didn't get on
because they got divorced.
And the mother took care of the
child when he was very young,
but when the boy was a teenager, his
father said, "Family Court judge,
give the boy to me because
he has to be prepared
to live in a man's world."
His mother did not want the
father to have the child,
but the judge ruled in
favor of the father.
The mother, sadly, was right because
the boy became very sad, depressed.
And one day, he took out one
of his father's many guns
and he killed himself.
So his mother wanted to
take care of anything
that he left behind;
it wasn't much ...
a guitar, some clothes, recordings.
And the father applied, too,
to be the one to take care
of whatever the boy had left.
And there was a law in the
state, the state was Idaho.
The law read, "As between
two persons equally entitled
to administer a decedent's estate,
males must be preferred to females."
And Sally Reed said, "That's wrong.
Why must males be preferred
to females?
I can do the job of attending
to my dead son's belongings
at least as well."
So, that was the first
case that I briefed,
and the Supreme Court decided that
unanimously in the mother's favor.
>> DEBBIE LEVY: I believe we
have run out of time I'm afraid,
and I just want to say, other
than thank you to all of you
for your excellent attention
and your good questions.
And of course, thank
you to Justice Ginsburg,
thank you to the Young
Readers Center.
Did you all know that it was Justice
Ginsburg's birthday yesterday?
Happy birthday.
>> RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Thank you.
[applause]
>> This has been a presentation
of the Library of Congress.
Visit us at loc dot gov.