>> From the library of
Congress in Washington DC.
>> David Mandel: Good evening.
I'm David Mandel, the
library's head of exhibits.
On behalf of the Librarian of
Congress, Dr. Carla Hayden,
I'd like to welcome you
all to tonight's program,
opening the library's
Baseball Americana Exhibition.
It was Dr. Hayden who
greenlight this project
and was instrumental
in making it happen.
And we are very appreciative
her support.
We began developing Baseball
Americana, the team set
out to produce an
exhibit-based experience,
that provides meaningful
engagement
with the library's collections
relevant to baseball.
We did this with
story and design.
The storytelling focused on the
idea of baseball as community
on any given day when
the weather is nice here
in the United States
there are boys and girls,
men and women playing softball
and baseball from Oakland
to Omaha, from Albany
to Atlanta.
The story structure was a broad
thematic sweep of history,
people and growing inclusivity.
The design rifted off
architecture organic
to baseball.
The grandstand, a public space
where people come together.
We set out to make an
immersive environment
that would be a place where
the library's visitors can also
come together.
Those with a love of
baseball and those
who are new to the game.
Those who already
know the library
and its extensive collections,
and those who are
discovering its treasures
for the first time .
We hope it's a place where the
story of baseball as community
and related items on display,
the interactive experiences
and design inspire conversations
and create enjoyable
moments and memories.
The best exhibits combine
engaging aesthetics
with intellectual rigor.
That was our goal.
And I hope you and all
of our visitors feel
that it was obtained.
Exhibitions are collaborative
endeavors.
I'd like to think my
main co-conspirators
in committing this act of
active visual communication.
Our curator, Susan Rayburn.
Our exhibition directors Betsy
Nahum- Miller and Cynthia Wayne.
Our deputy chief of exhibitions
and production manager Karen
Worth [assumed spelling].
Our education specialist
Naomi Coquillon.
June Ni [assumed spelling],
our digital project specialist.
And our colleagues
in the Interpretive Programs
Office and Library Services.
Pure and applied were our
wonderful, exhibition designers,
Northern Light Productions
made our audiovisual pieces.
Space Design built and install
our grandstand and graphics
and Color Ad our exhibit cases.
Lastly, I'd like to thank our
content partners and lenders.
Major League Baseball, the
National baseball Hall of Fame
in Cooperstown, ESPN
and Mr. Hayden Trubitt.
Now, please welcome the
curator of Baseball Americana,
Susan Reyburn to introduce
tonight's featured guests.
[ Applause ]
>> Good evening everyone
and welcome
to the Library of Congress.
Thank you all for coming.
The calendar says tomorrow is
June 29th, but for the Library
of Congress it will
be opening day,
as Baseball Americana officially
begins its year-long run.
I hope you all had a chance
to get an advance peek
earlier this evening
and that you will all send out
to everyone you know copies
of the baseball cards you
just made of yourselves.
Hashtag Baseball America.
You will probably have noticed a
couple themes in the exhibition,
including a comparison
between baseball then and now
and how the game has
fostered a strong sense
of community among
teammates, fans, neighbors,
and of course baseball
stat geeks and stat heads.
A group that will find
tonight's discussion
especially illuminating.
There are items in
the exhibition
that specifically
address baseball's ancient
and unique obsession
with number-crunching.
Whether it stats on the
back of baseball cards,
hand color hitting charts
that Whitey Herzog
produced by the thousands.
A game of Strat-O-Matic,
or the use of sabermetrics.
A newspaper broadside from
1859 covering the first
intercollegiate baseball game
includes an early example
of a box score, before things
got so much more detailed.
Taking stats to an extreme,
we display a book illustrating
Allan Roth's mind-numbing,
seemingly endless formula
that reduced a player's overall
performance to a single number.
Roth anticipated the
importance of OBP.
I've been looking a
lot of acronyms lately
on base percentage, a concept
that plays a central
role in Moneyball.
It all used to be so
simple; batting average,
home runs, runs batted in.
The acronyms BA, HR, RBI were
easily understood by those
who had only a passing
acquaintance
with the game or mathematics.
Today, of course, nobody
has just a batting average.
They have an entire
slash line, EA/OBP/SLG.
And if you have slash marks,
you also probably have WHIPs,
that walks and hits
per innings pitched.
Slashes and WHIPs,
obviously would lead to WAR,
that is wins above replacement.
Meanwhile, Major League
Baseball's stat cast calculates
new forms of data.
Such as average launch,
angle and exit velocity.
For most fans in
the general public,
the concept of what is now known
as sabermetrics reinterpreting
data and inventing complex,
comprehensive methods
for calculating player
performance first entered the
national consciousness
with the 2003 publication
of the eye-opening and
best-selling book "Moneyball,
The Art of Winning an Unfair
Game" by Michael Lewis.
And the subsequent
film released in 2011.
"Moneyball" represents
an important milestone
in the crowded field of
excellent baseball literature.
As many of you here know, the
book chronicles the efforts
of Oakland A's general
manager Billy Beane
to build a strong team
with a weak budget
by using advanced forms
of statistical analysis
to identify worthwhile players
who were overlooked using
conventional scouting methods.
"Moneyball" not only look back
on what happened in Oakland,
but it prompted an entire
sport to look forward
to what this new
approach offered.
The Library of Congress
currently has more
than 9000 baseball books and
few have had such an immediate
and resounding effect
as "Moneyball."
It influenced the way
teams evaluated players
and built rosters, and
it prompted front offices
to add science and
technology to the hunches
and gut instincts
of veteran scouts.
More than a sports book,
"Moneyball" is also a book
about business and success.
Finding an edge among
opportunities that others miss.
In celebrating the
exhibition opening,
The Library of Congress is very
pleased to have with us tonight,
Michael Lewis the
author of "Moneyball,"
and pioneering baseball
analyst, Rob Neyer.
In addition to "Moneyball,"
Michael Lewis is the author
of several other popular works
that have also made
it to the big screen.
Including "The Big Short,"
about the financial
crisis that began in 2008.
And "The Blindside,"
which followed a high school
football lineman's journey
from hardship to success.
His latest book is
"The Undoing Project,"
which examines how
we make decisions.
Rob Neyer is a former senior
baseball editor for Fox Sports,
an analyst for ESPN,
and a research assistant
to the baseball stats
guru Bill James.
He is the author of several
baseball books including the
forthcoming "Powerball, Anatomy
of The Modern Baseball Game."
He was also just recently
named the Commissioner
of the Summer Collegiate
West Coast League.
To get into a "Moneyball"
frame of mind,
we've got a clip from the film.
Take a look.
[ Applause ]
>> Rob Neyer: Let's just
jump right into this thing.
>> Michael Lewis: Let's do it.
>> Rob Neyer: Because
we've already introduced
and we all know what
this is about,
so let's just talk
about "Moneyball."
I met Michael back in
the summer of 2002.
Oddly, I had read
one of his books
and enjoyed it but
forgot his name.
So, when he introduced himself,
I had no idea who he was.
But told he was writing
this book about baseball
and focusing on the A's.
And we talked, and it wasn't
until the book came out.
And he shared with
me the manuscript.
But it wasn't until the
book came out that I,
of course that we realized we
had a phenomenon on our hands.
But I want to first ask what
led you to start hanging
around the Oakland
Coliseum in 2002?
>> Michael Lewis: Well,
there's a back story.
And the back story was, I
followed my wife to California,
Tabitha had a Fellowship
at Stanford.
And I had always, as a little
kid been a fan of the A's.
And I'd been a fan of the a's
because my high school
baseball coach had come to us
from A's spring training,
where he'd been beat
out for the starting
catcher job by Gene Tenace.
And decided that the Minor
Leagues were no longer for him.
He was from New Orleans.
His name was Billy Fitzgerald.
And he showed up with
Gene Tenace's mitt
and an incredibly persuasive rap
that I was the next
Catfish Hunter.
And the only thing I had in
common with Catfish Hunter was
that I didn't have a fastball.
But he turned this into
like a positive attribute.
Just like him, you've
got no fastball.
And so, the A's; I started
following them from then.
So, we're now in
the A's backyard.
And I started watching games
on TV again for the first time.
And this was late nineties,
when salaries are exploding.
And I started to pay attention
to the money on the field,
because salaries are exploding,
and I was particularly
interested in the beginning
with the question of
whether there was kind
of class warfare within teams.
You know, the leftfielder was
being paid $6 million a year
and the right field
was making 150-grand.
And I wonder how pissed
off the right fielder was
when the left fielder
dropped a fly ball.
And I was watching for that.
I was seeing, are they
starting to hate each other?
Is the inequality in
baseball expressing itself
in the team dynamics?
And that's why I
started paying attention.
And then, I started realizing
these payrolls are radically
different from each other.
And that the A's had no money,
and they were playing some
of these teams with
all this money.
And that made me curious,
because they were
doing real well.
How could you?
If the market for baseball
players was efficient,
the team with the most money
should just buy all the best
players and win all the games.
That seemed to be a question
worth trying to answer.
And then, two things happened.
I met a man named Dough
Pappas, who died not long after.
But, who was in the
part of the Society
for American Baseball Research.
And he sat me down and he
showed me analysis he'd done
that showed just how
extraordinary it was what the
A's were doing with their money.
>> Rob Neyer: Marginal wins.
Right?
>> Michael Lewis: That's right.
It was dollars per win.
And they were winning so
many more games per dollar
than every other team.
If it had been a normal industry
they would just acquire all the
other teams and run them too.
They were clearly running their
team, it looked like they were
in a different business.
So, that caused me to call
Billy Beane, who was at the time
at spring training in 2002.
And I said I'm thinking
about writing a neat little,
something about this,
I'm curious about it.
I thought it was going to
be maybe a magazine piece.
And I flew out and
spent time with him.
And after a day, I
thought oh my God.
This is big.
I don't know how big, but and
I didn't know what it was.
I'd never written a sports book.
So, I didn't even think
to myself at first
that there would be an interest
in me writing on the subject.
So, it took some time
before the storm gathered
and I realized exactly
what this was.
Maybe six or seven weeks.
But it was six or seven
weeks of really kind
of immersing myself
in the organization.
So, that's the beginning of it.
>> Rob Neyer: And was there?
We talked about your
process before,
you typically start off thinking
with luck this is
a magazine piece.
And with more luck, or a great
story, it's more than that.
Do you remember a moment or
moments when you thought oh,
this actually is a book, this
is my next six or either months?
>> Michael Lewis: So,
I remember it vividly,
because I took action.
I had not told anybody I was
doing this except my editor
at "The New York
Times Magazine,"
who was faintly interested,
but you know.
He was humoring me.
And it had become
clear, that yes,
they're doing things
differently than everybody else.
Yes, he's thinking about;
the person who's running
this team is thinking
about his players differently
than the other organizations
are.
But it wasn't until, it
was a night, I decided,
so they were conducting
what amounted
to be a science experiment
in baseball.
And the lab rats
were the players.
And I remember asking Billy
Beane, what do the players think
about this experiment.
And he said, we don't tell them
it would only confuse them.
He said, but you know,
you've got a first baseman,
who's never played first base.
You've got a leadoff
hitter who's slow.
You're using people in
all kinds of strange ways.
And you don't explain it?
And he said, don't explain it.
Now, what I found, just
generally in my writing life,
that it's easier to
insinuate myself into a world
if I can add some value.
So, of course, the first thing I
do is run over to the clubhouse
and start telling players what
I learned from the front office.
And they were like?
You're shitting me, really?
That's why I'm playing
first base?
Tell me more.
And so, at the end of every,
what I was starting to do
after every game, I'd
meet with one player
and tell him what I knew.
And then get kind of a feel
for who these people were.
Because I was already thinking,
who are the characters
in this story.
And I was already thinking,
it's the hitter who's
the most unlikely
that people don't appreciate.
And it's the pitcher who's
most unlikely, you know,
people don't appreciate.
But I wasn't sure
who those were.
And I was sitting in the
clubhouse after the game
and waiting for a player
to come talk to me.
And I looked up and I was
seeing all these naked bodies.
It was the first time I'd
seen the Oakland A's naked.
And it was such an
unpleasant site [laughter].
It was repulsive.
A baseball uniform, I mean
it really is a business suit
for an athlete.
It hides all the problems.
And I mean there were
guys with fat ankles.
There were guys, I mean
they just didn't look good.
And I went to the A's,
I went back to the
front office that night.
And I found Paul DePodesta,
and I said I just saw your
guys naked, and I said,
it was such a strange site
that I thought to myself,
if you line all those naked
bodies up against a wall,
and asked anybody what
they did for a living,
nobody would guess
professional athlete.
And he says you kind of
stumbled on part of our story.
And the story is we're
in the market for players
who the market miss
values in some way.
And one of the chief sources
of mis-evaluation is
physical appearance.
A good-looking player
will be overvalued,
and an ugly player
will be undervalued.
A player who doesn't look
the part will often be an
opportunity for us, because
we can detect his value
with statistics.
and I remember driving home
from the coliseum that night
and thinking, wow, it's
not a baseball story.
It's a story about the way
markets miss value people.
Forget that it's a sport.
Imagine this is just a business.
You've got employees
on the field,
who have been doing basically
the same thing for a century,
with statistics attached to
every move they make on the job.
With millions of people
watching them while they work.
And all those people think
they're experts on valuing them.
If that person can
be miss valued
by the market, who can't be.
A story of women
in the workplace?
A story of Jackie Robinson.
There was something
universal about this.
About the way people
get misjudged.
And I went home, and I wrote my
editor, WW Norton, my publisher,
Starling Lawrence who's been my
editor since my very first book.
And I said I've got had
bad news and worse news.
I said the bad news is the
reason you haven't heard from me
for the last six or seven weeks
is I've been kind of marinating
in the Oakland clubhouse.
And I'm going to write
a book about baseball.
And it's good be
called "Moneyball."
And I said, and the worst
news is, it's just the first
of two books about baseball.
And the only reason I'm
writing "Moneyball" is
so I can write the second book.
And the second book is going
to be called "Underdogs."
And it's going to
be about the people,
they were about to draft
players in the draft,
and they were going to turn
that into a science experiment.
And I thought I was going to
write a second book about that.
And he called me up the
next day, he said go for it.
That was the moment it started.
>> Rob Neyer: So, I wasn't
going to bring that up,
but since you do I have
two related questions.
One is the next big moment was
when somebody told you this book
is exploding, and you're going
to have a huge best-seller
on your hands.
Do you remember that moment?
>> Michael Lewis: So,
I'd already had a few.
And so, it wasn't
new [laughter].
No, so I mean that
sounded differently
than I intended [laughter].
I remember I think
it went to number
on the Best Seller
List almost right away.
And what I remember,
the memories I have
of the publication of the
book are not about sales.
My memories are about
the controversy.
It was so loud.
And angry.
And that's what I followed.
And my most vivid memory is; so,
with my subjects I have a rule.
Every writer should
have this rule I think.
You're not allowed to see
it until it comes out.
I don't' want your
fingerprints all over my prose.
And I'm going to do my best
to get everything right
and check things with you.
But you're not going to
get to read the thing
until everybody can
read the thing.
And Billy Beane had got
his copy of the book.
And it was not hardback
yet, it was a galley,
but it was it was a week before
it was going to come out,
it was that kind of thing.
And it's now a year later, it
was spring training of 2003.
And I remember sitting in
my office talking to him.
He calls and he's my first
inside baseball reader.
And he's upset.
I mean he's really upset.
But he's not exactly
directing at me,
but he's incoherent
on the phone.
And he's just upset.
I read this thing,
and God this thing.
And this is not making
any sense.
I said Billy, stop,
you're obviously upset.
What are you upset about?
And at that point I was
feeling a little guilty
because I thought well, I'm
going to destroy his business.
That what I've done is
revealed his secrets .
I've done my best, and
everybody's going to read it.
and there's no longer going
to be these inefficiencies
to exploit, because what they're
doing makes so much sense.
And he says, not that.
He says, you don't understand,
you have me saying all the time.
>> Rob Neyer: And my mother's
going to read this book.
>> Michael Lewis: My mother's
going to read this book.
>> Rob Neyer: And I said you
do say all the time [laughter].
And he said, you
don't know my mother.
He said, my mother
is going to be.
And I said, I said
you are kidding.
You're not serious right?
You're upset because your
mother is going to read it
and she's going to see you?
And he said, yeah [laughter].
And I said, I'm so relieved.
I thought you were
going to be upset
because I just destroyed
your entire business.
And then there's this long
pause at the end of the line,
and he said you don't think
anybody is baseball is going
to read your book [laughter].
And, Billy he had once,
there was a line that came
out of his mouth once, you can't
be too stupid to play baseball.
And he did explain.
He said, you don't understand
we've been doing this
for the last six or seven years.
It's been obvious to anybody
who wanted to pay attention
that we were more
efficient than anybody else.
A book isn't going to
make any difference.
And I remember following that.
So, my memory or response
to the publication wasn't,
oh this thing is
selling so well.
It was selling not quite as
well as one of my other books,
and a little better
than the other one.
And it seemed to be doing fine,
but it was all these
baseball people,
angrily not reading my book.
Joe Morgan, I couldn't turn
on ESPN, I could not turn
on that television without
hearing someone talk
about the book.
And that went on for a while.
And usually it wasn't spoken
of in flattering tones.
Everybody, to the extent,
they talk about "Moneyball"
the way people
in Oklahoma talk
about climate change.
That it's a controversial
subject at best.
And actually, if we were on
air, we didn't have to be polite
about it we would damn
everything about it.
And so that was the
tone of it all.
And that was preposterous to me.
And I knew they were to lose.
Evolution was going to
take care of the problem.
But it was not until
I published a book,
"Flash Boys" did I have a
similar sort of experience
where a whole industry
was angry.
And that was my memory of it.
And that it was going to
be an influential book.
Well, Billy had told me no
one in baseball was going
to read it, and they
seemed determined not to.
but what happened was curious.
What happened was my
other audience kicked in.
Rich people [laughter].
And the head of Goldman
Sachs, called the owner
of the New York Mets
and said, you fool.
You have any idea
what these people
who are running your
organization are doing
with your money?
and that conversation
happened with owners
and their rich friends, a lot.
And that's where the
pressure came for change.
The owners started
saying oh my God.
And had a number of
young people say,
I got my job because of you.
>> Rob Neyer: Well,
and I baseball would look much
different without the book.
>> Michael Lewis: You think so?
>> Rob Neyer: I do.
>> Michael Lewis:
I'm not sure I agree.
Maybe slower, but that's it.
>> Rob Neyer: Yeah,
slower, but what I mean is
in a very specific way, there
are lots of people who have jobs
in baseball who wouldn't
without the book.
And most recently you can draw
a direct line between the book
and the Houston Astros
win the World Series
because Jeff Luhnow,
who built that team.
>> Michael Lewis: That's
how he got the job.
>> Rob Neyer: He wouldn't have
ever been considered for a job
in baseball unless the
Cardinal's owner son,
or son-in-law hadn't
read the book.
So, I guess I'm wondering,
I'm sure you knew that.
What it was like
to see the Astros.
Because that's sort of the most
direct link between the book
and a team actually
winning the World Series.
>> Michael Lewis: Theo,
no, the Boston Red Sox.
>> Rob Neyer: But Theo
worked for the Red Sox,
before the book came out.
>> Michael Lewis: Yeah, but Theo
wouldn't have gotten his job
without the book.
>> Rob Neyer: He got the job
before the book came out.
>> Michael Lewis: No, he
didn't get the job before,
if he got the job before the
book came out, it was this.
>> Rob Neyer: He
was hired in 2002.
>> Michael Lewis: No, he wasn't.
But this is what
happened [laughter].
So, while I was working on
the book, I went and reported
in other organizations.
And one of the other
organizations I went
and reported in was
the Boston Red Sox.
And John Henry had bought
the Boston Red Sox a couple
years before.
And I told him what I was up to
and he said please come see me.
I flew out to Boston
and we went to lunch.
He said what do I have to do to
get you not to write this book.
And I said why?
He says because we are going
to do this in some way.
We've caught on to
what the A's are doing.
And I said well, I'm
writing the book.
Then, he said more or less
how do I hire Billy Beane
to be the general
manager of the Red Sox.
And I found myself in this
weird conversation where I was
in between Henry and
Billy Beane talking terms.
And it ended with Billy
briefly accepting the job
at the Red Sox, and
then walking away
because he was uncomfortable
with other people there,
or for whatever reason.
And Henry then said,
who do I hire?
And Billy said hire Theo.
So, if that happened before the
book published, it was just.
Because I was talking to Theo
who was a minion at the Red Sox
in the year I was
working on the book.
>> Rob Neyer: I think Theo
was hired as GM that fall
after the season of 2002.
>> Michael Lewis:
After 2002, right.
All right.
So, it's possible, you're
right, it's possible.
>> Rob Neyer: You can take
credit for as many championships
as you want [laughter].
>> Michael Lewis:
Billy, actually,
the Oakland A's can
take credit for that.
Because the reason Henry wanted;
Henry had noticed
what I had noticed.
So, it was a move
that was happening.
>> Rob Neyer: He
hired Bill James.
>> Michael Lewis:
He hired Bill James.
>> Rob Neyer: two
months before I think.
>> Michael Lewis: Yeah,
that sounds right.
So, all right.
So, you just defeated
your own argument.
My first response was I
think baseball would be kind
of where it is now, but it would
have moved a little more slowly.
And you say all these things
changed because of it.
>> Rob Neyer: What I think is
that the movement would be.
>> Michael Lewis: Here's the
counterfactual, all right.
You're right.
You're right in this sense that
the Boston Red Sox were going
to do this in some
form or other.
And they were going to win the
World Series because of it.
When they won the World Series,
everybody would have
imitated them.
And they would have; Theo
and John Henry would have
gotten all the credit
for having revolutionized
baseball.
And no one would
know Billy Beane is.
That's probably the
counterfactuals.
>> Rob Neyer: And I think the
movement would be roughly the
same, a little slower.
But every World Series
would be different.
If you think about
the cascade of events
when you have all
the hiring and team.
Just the world would
look different.
>> Michael Lewis: Imagine if
your parents had never met.
>> Rob Neyer: That's right.
>> Michael Lewis: That would
have changed the world.
That would have changed
the world.
>> Rob Neyer: Well, before
I forget I do need to ask,
since you brought it up, what
ever happened to "Underdogs?"
>> Michael Lewis:
"Moneyball" ate it.
The response was so loud that
other things I was going to do,
it all, everybody
else was doing it.
>> Rob Neyer: But
you worked on it,
you went to Sacramento and saw?
>> Michael Lewis: I spent three
years roaming the minor leagues
with these players.
I was in uniform for the
Midland Rockhounds during games.
I shagged flyballs before
the games with players.
I mean, I was all over
the minor leagues.
And I could never quite figure
out how to tell the story.
First, there were
20 main characters.
And then, all the fake work
that was going to be in it,
it just felt like
"Moneyball" just had;
there was just too much
noise around "Moneyball."
So, eventually I walked.
But what happened, interestingly
what happened is my wife,
Tabitha is a professional
photographer,
mainly art photographer,
but she tagged along
and started taking
pictures of these players
that they were drafting.
And she followed
them for 15 years.
And she's published a
book called "Fantasy Life"
which did real well, last year.
Where it's photographs of
these players over time.
And this to me is
like a watershed
moment in our marriage.
Because when I met her, the
night I met her in Seattle,
1996, the night before
she'd been asked to throw
out a first pitch at a
Seattle Mariners' game.
And I was seeing her the night
after she'd been
invited to do it.
She was a celebrity on MTV.
And I said well,
what was it like?
And she said, well,
I didn't do it.
and I said why didn't you do it?
She said, I didn't
want to get hurt.
I said, wait, wait.
Why are you going to get hurt?
She goes they hit
it right [laughter]?
And that was, that I have taken
that woman from where she is
to the point where she is
publishing famous books
about baseball is a
great, great triumph.
[ Crowd Noise ]
>> Rob Neyer: So, when you
were young, playing baseball
for Billy Fitzgerald,
coach Fitz, there's a book
about Coach Fitz called "Coach."
You were pitching.
What did that teach
you about baseball?
That experience?
What did Coach Fitz teach you?
How does that experience show
up in "Moneyball" if it does
and more broadly in
your work in general?
>> Michael Lewis: The big thing,
so after "Moneyball" comes out,
all the sudden I'm allowed
to write about sports.
And "The New York Times" editor
who was faintly interested
in the beginning of "Moneyball"
is extremely interested
when I mention my high
school baseball coach.
And he's interested for the
same reason I'm interested,
is the idea was, describe
the power a teacher can have
in a kid's life.
And that, to this day, when
I find myself in high stress,
high pressure situations, I can
hear Billy Fitzgerald's voice
and it gives me strength.
And the things he put me
through gives me strength.
And he used the sport
of baseball, probably,
he didn't use it, I mean he was
a great coach, and he won a lot
of games, more of
a basketball coach
than he was a baseball coach.
But he was a really
intense person.
And he used the trope
about baseball is
that it's a game
of failure, right?
And it is a game of failure.
And it's an individual game,
masquerading as a team game.
There are lots of one-on-one
encounters where you're
in the spotlight and
you are likely to fail.
And the failure is
going to be very public.
He used that to teach kids
how to come back from failure.
And it was a rocky
experience at times,
but it was a great experience.
I had found out this was you
know, 2003, before that a bunch
of former players for this
man were raising the money
to name the gym at the Isidore
Newman School in New Orleans,
where I had gone for the coach.
And they were having no
trouble raising the money
from both the former
players, and the parents
because he had had this
profound effect on lots
of people, not just me.
I mean he had turned around
my life in a lot of ways.
He, at the same time, was
about to be fired by the school
because a handful of parents
of his current players thought
that he was too hard
on the kids.
And he had mellowed
by so much [laughter].
When I went back and started
talking to the players
and told them some of
the things we had done,
their jaws were on the floor.
I started calling former
players, Payton Manning
and Eli Manning both played for
him, they went to the school.
And Payton Manning
said to this day,
I think of Coach Fitz
when I'm in huddle.
Since this day, he's in my head.
And this is playing
baseball and basketball
for him, not football.
So, I thought, what's happening,
Coach Fitz became an excuse
to write about something that's
happening in the society.
That how hard it
is for a teacher
that is demanding
to work his magic.
Because the parental fear,
life has just become
too front-end loaded.
Failure when you're 13,
is all of the sudden too
fraught, or when you're 16.
So, the parents in some
cases are just interfering
in a process that really should
happen, because they're afraid
of what happens to their
child if they aren't
on the all-district
team, or whatever.
Or they aren't playing
shortstop.
Or they're on the bench.
So, that's what that
story was about.
How he leads me to
"Moneyball" is well,
I would never be writing about
baseball if I hadn't played,
but I'd played before I met
him, and I probably would have,
I don't know might have played
even if he wasn't there,
though he was one of
the cheap attractions
for playing at the school.
But, there's something I've said
a couple times in interviews
and I was ridiculed for it
because I pitched two innings
at Princeton my freshman year,
that was the extent
of my college career.
But I was recruited.
And it got me into
college, no question.
Coach put me on a list, because
my high school stats were gaudy.
But they were gaudy
without a fastball.
Because I had a really
good curveball.
And he taught me how
to; he turned me into a
"Moneyball" pitcher basically.
Never walked anybody,
never hit anybody.
He gave me a feel for the game,
that when I hit the Oakland A's
and they're taking people
who don't look right,
don't have the obvious
attributes, I remember that.
Because I was one of those,
as a player I was
one of those players.
So, in that way, probably
maybe a bit receptive
to the story I was hearing.
I too was undervalued.
Now, and I think a lot of
people feel that way, right?
And I think the way the book
resonated, it resonated first
because oh there's this
controversy in baseball,
and second because a lot
of people read it and said,
I feel that way, I feel
like Scott Hatteberg.
>> Rob Neyer: so, you get
your two innings at Princeton.
Then you've got a long stretch
where you're not really
immersed in baseball.
I'm guessing.
At least as a player, obviously.
But then, was it
20-sum years later,
your daughter starts
playing when she's,
your oldest daughter
when she's 6?
Is that right?
So, for the last 12 years
now you've been immersed.
>> Michael Lewis: Yeah, so I've
got my children, I have a 19,
16 and an 11-yeaer-old.
Two girls and a boy.
And each of their athletic
careers has already cost me
a book.
So, the shear amount of
time that I've devoted
to the athletic careers
of my children.
And I'm dead serious, I mean
tomorrow morning I'm going
to get on a plane and
go to Boulder, Colorado,
where at this moment, my
16-year-old is playing his team
from New Mexico in a 16 and
under softball tournament.
She's big-time.
And so, I ended up in Berkeley,
California, where I live,
first coaching my oldest child
when she was 6 all the way
to the age of 14, and
then she outgrew me.
And then the second
daughter the same way.
I'm still coaching my son.
I'm his baseball coach
and his basketball coach.
But I ended up the funny role
was if the kids were good
in the recreation league, we
have a couple hundred girls
in the recreational league and
the ones who are ambitious,
and committed, and
all the rest move
on to kind of an All-Star team.
These travel teams.
Starting at the age of eight.
And the travel teams, I ran.
The minute my eldest
got to the age,
they picked that
she was good enough,
they said will you
be the commissioner.
So, I was the Commissioner
of the Berkeley Competitive
Travel Teams.
Now the Berkeley Recreationally
League was founded
by a moral philosopher
at the University California
Berkeley, 35 years ago.
It's a wonderful league.
The first line of the founding
document is, "The purpose
of children's sports is the
moral education of the parents."
[Laugther] And the league is
run so that if you win too much
as a coach you're not asked
to coach the next year.
They gun for like you're
gunning for a 500 record,
that's the perfect season.
And of course, the strike outs
are applauded, no one remembers
who won and all the rest.
And it is as warm and
fuzzy an experience,
and competitive experience
as you can have it.
So, now, these little girls from
Berkeley, these little liberals
from Berkeley, California get
on this travel team and they go
over the hill and have
to play republicans.
And it was like taking these
small furry creatures who come
from an island without
predators.
And letting them loosen
like, you know in a Safari.
Where lions are chasing
after them.
>> Rob Neyer: And how long
did it take them to learn?
>> Michael Lewis: It was
an incredible process.
Because they had
both experiences.
They realized there
were two roles.
There was this role
where you're supposed
to be just collaborative
and nice.
And then there's a role
where you're supposed
to slit the throat of the
person you're playing.
And they learned how.
It usually took kids
a couple of years.
So, Dixie, who's my 16-year-old,
when she was 8 on the 10
and under team, they
were like 2 and 24.
And when she was 10, they
were number 1 in the country.
So, that's how long it took.
And it was you know,
even little liberals,
there's a political
lesson in this.
Even sweet natured
liberals if you beat them
up long enough, get tough.
And learn how to fight.
So, my role now, a
year and a half ago,
I stepped down from that role.
But I ran that for five
or six years and it ate
up a big chunk of my life.
And it was totally fascinating.
And one day I'm going to
write a book about it.
>> Rob Neyer: So, I
have two more questions.
The first one, quickly please,
do you think "Moneyball" would
have resonated the way it did,
would have been essentially one
of the best-selling
baseball books
for 15 plus years running now,
if it had been a
different sport.
Could you have done "Moneyball"
with football or basketball?
>> Michael Lewis: You remember
when "The Blindside" came
out and nobody bought it.
And that's when I realized
how grateful I should be
to baseball for creating
readers.
Because football
doesn't [laughter].
I mean there is no safe
place for a book to be
than a football stadium.
No one is going to pick it up.
No one is going to open it.
No one is going to
ask what's in it.
Fifty thousand people
will walk by that book
in a football stadium and nobody
will think twice about it.
Whereas, you put a book in a
baseball stadium and people,
the ballpark people will pick
it up and kind of look at.
So, if it had been
about football,
it wouldn't have worked.
Any other sport.
So, I think that the literary
dimensions, the literary,
that there is an overlap between
literature and the sport.
That there's a built-in
readership
for virtually anything written
about baseball, was the kindling
that started the fire.
Without it, I don't think
it would have gone anywhere.
>> Rob Neyer: So,
a very quick story.
I was the press junket
for the "Moneyball" movie.
>> Michael Lewis: I remember.
>> Rob Neyer: Which was in 2011.
>> Michael Lewis: I was
in the press junket too.
>> Rob Neyer: You
were in the room?
>> Michael Lewis:
Yeah, I mean kind of.
>> Rob Neyer: I was in the
front of the theater in Oakland.
And I have this very distinct
memory of sitting there
as the movie's it's the first
two minutes of having these,
well a continuing
wave of emotion.
Because it felt like sort
of my life was up there.
Because a lot of it
had been in your book.
Not my personal life,
but my professional
life and my passion.
And what I was going to ask you
was what it was like for you
to see that up on the screen the
first time and so will wrote.
But then you reminded me that
it wasn't your first go 'round.
"The Blindside" had come out.
Maybe even a better
question the moral
of the question is what did it
feel like when you were sitting
in the theater for the first
time watching "The Blindside"
and seeing your words, sometimes
your exact words being spoken
by these people.
>> Michael Lewis: Right.
I went to "The Blindside,"
the first time I saw
"The Blindside" was at
a benefit for Goodwill.
They released the movie a couple
of days earlier to Goodwill,
so they can show
in San Francisco.
And the idea was I was going to
go watch it with 300 grandees
and then afterwards I was
going to get up and talk
about how I felt
about the movie.
And I brought Tabitha with me.
And we were sitting there and in
the middle of it, I leaned over
and I said, I don't
know if I like this.
And she said, do not say that.
And then the more; but
as I was watching it,
I was laughing out
loud and I cried.
And how often does
that happen in a movie?
Not often.
And I realized afterwards,
I was quite moved by that.
It was actually kind of
impressive what they did.
What I had been doing up to the
point when I turned to my wife
and said I don't know if
I like this, is I was,
every time something
was really working,
I was saying, oh I did that.
Yeah. They didn't screw that up.
And then, if I thought
something didn't work,
or maybe it just wasn't from me,
I was saying that's not
working, that's his fault.
And so, I was taking credit
for everything that was working
and not taking any
blame for what wasn't.
And then, once I got through
that, you know since then,
by the time of "The Big Short,"
I don't' really watch
them in a proprietary way.
I really do just kind
of watch the movie.
And then, the only
concern I have is
that I've been son
enthusiastic about all of them,
that when I first see it
and I feel the enthusiasm,
the way I felt with "Moneyball"
and I felt with "The Big Short,"
that I'm only enthusiastic
because it's a move
about my book.
And nobody else is
going to like this.
>> Rob Neyer: And then they all
get nominated for best picture.
>> Michael Lewis: It's been
incredibly lucky, right?
The talent that's been attracted
to it, has been fantastic.
>> Rob Neyer: Well, and
"The Moneyball" movie
in particular was, what entailed
you can write a book just
about the making of the movie,
because there were
so many false starts.
Famously, it was shut down.
I think it was the day
before they were supposed
to start filming, you were
supposed to get your check.
>> Michael Lewis: Yes, and I
was in LA, and I was supposed
to go have dinner at
Brad Pitt's house,
with my daughter
who was with me.
And that never happened.
And, it just shutdown.
But, that whole story,
my memory.
So, bumping along with the
drama alongside the drama
of the making of "The Moneyball"
movie was the drama Billy
Beane's response to the making
of "The Moneyball" movie.
Because he was so upset about
the book, he never quite go;
he got over it after his
mother was actually furious.
And actually, furious with me,
and I'm not kidding you I took
her to dinner in San Diego
and tried to charm
her and had no luck.
But his attitude
towards the movie,
right from the beginning
was, look,
this book has created this
huge noise in my life.
I never wanted it.
He didn't know the book was
about him until he read it.
And I disguised my
intentions well enough.
And that he said why on earth
would I let anybody make a
movie, that's like
10 times the trouble.
And I said to him right
from the beginning,
I said Billy you
don't understand.
They never make the movie.
They'll give you some money for
your rights, they'll go pretend
like they're going
to make the movie,
and then the movie
won't get made.
And he made me list for him
all the times this had happened
to me.
And it had happened
a dozen times.
Not just with books, but
with magazine articles.
I said Hollywood is fantastic.
You throw your manuscript in,
they throw this money out.
And you run away
as fast as possible
and they never bother you again.
They just give you
free money for nothing.
And when I told him
what I'd paid
for various things,
he goes, huh, huh.
And he went and slept
on it, he came back
and he said, I'm
going to do this.
He said this is great.
And so, he got a check
for an 18-montyh option
on his life rights, and
then 18 months later,
he calls me he says, guess
what, I got another check.
And he said, and like this
happened three or four times
and each time he'd call he'd
say, this is genius [laughter].
They're not making the movie.
And then one night he calls
and he says, you bastard.
He says, Brad Pitt just
called me and he wants
to come over to my house.
And the babysitter's
wearing a dress
and my wife is putting
on makeup [laugther].
And then he proceeds to be
genuinely irritated with me
for having mislead
him into think
that no move would
ever get made right
through the making of the movie.
To the point where, they'd
been shooting for three months
and Billy has created this
social awkward situation,
where yes, he's let Brad
Pitt come to his house once,
but he's been invited to the set
over and over, and he won't go.
They're filming in
the Oakland Coliseum.
These beautiful night scenes
where they've re-created a game
between the Royals and the A's.
And they've got body
doubles of 50 players.
And they've got 8000 people in
the stands that they're moving
around so the place looks full.
And everybody's there.
And Billy won't go.
And so, they call
me, and they say,
could you please just get
Billy down to the set.
I mean everybody just feels
like we don't want him saying
how much he hates us all
at the end of it.
And it won't be an
unpleasant experience
for him and blah, blah, blah.
So, I call Billy, I say, Billy
I haven't been to the set.
But I'm going to come
out and I'm going to go,
and you should just
come down and see.
And he says, you
going to be there?
I said yeah.
You promise you're going
to be there he says,
he's like; I said I'll be there.
So, child Dixie, softball player
in Boulder, Colorado right now
and I, after one of her games
go out to the Oakland Coliseum.
We roll in and Brad Pitt has
just finished filming one
of his movie scenes where
he's roaming back and forth
in the middle of
an empty stadium.
And we walk out, and at
this point I know him.
And he comes running
over to say hello.
And he gets down on one knee
and starts talking to Dixie,
who's then 9 or 10,
or whatever she is.
And I leave them alone.
and Billy comes walking
in from another place.
I go talk to Billy.
And as I get Billy, Dixie
comes running over grabs my leg
like she's terrified
and says who is
that weird old guy [laughter].
And she's standing there,
and Billy and I are talking.
And while Billy and I are
talking, he's kind of like,
he's putting in an
appearance on the set and he's
about to like turn and leave.
And a production assistant
comes running over.
And he's got headphones on.
He's got a notepad.
And there's a book
inside the notepad.
And he comes running over
just dewy-eyed and gushing,
and he says Mr. Beane,
Mr. Beane,
please will you you're
your book for me; please.
And Billy says, it's
not my book.
He wrote the book.
And he says, no Mr. Beane,
I want you to sign my
book, it's your book.
And he's so fawning, it's really
kind of awkward, uncomfortable.
And Billy goes okay.
Now what you need to know
for what happens next is
that there were two Billy Beanes
who played professional baseball
and they actually played
int eh same outfield,
I think on the Twins;
what's that?
>> Rob Neyer: They played for
the Toledo Mud Hens together.
>> Michael Lewis: Really?
They played for the
Twins and for the Tigers.
Right.
>> Rob Neyer: In the minors
they were in the same team.
>> Michael Lewis: I
didn't realize that.
But in the big leagues
they were in the same.
And the other Billy
Beane, spells his name
without and e on the end.
So, the other Billy Beane
had come out of the closet
and written a book
about the experience
of being a professional baseball
player coming out of the closet.
You know what it's
called, it's "Hitting
From The Other Side
of The Plate."
It's like; so, and so the
young man, production,
flips open this binder
and there's the other Billy
Beane's book [laughter].
Now, there's no right answer for
my Billy Beane in that moment.
There's just no right answer.
And I look over and Brad
Pitt is sitting in one
of the A's dugouts
rolling around laughing.
He had set up,
he had orchestrated the
entire thing [laughter].
And the reason I had been
implored to bring Billy
to the set was so he
could play this joke.
He'd been thinking about it for,
obviously for like six months.
It was just perfect.
It was perfect.
>> Rob Neyer: That's great.
[ Applause ]
Well, we have run a little long,
but I think that
story was worth it.
we do have time for
a few questions.
I will choose people.
Please keep them brief.
First one is always the hardest.
>> Susan Reyburn:
We've got microphones
on both sides of the aisle here.
>> Speaker 1: Hi,
so can you hear me?
So, I saw you last year
at the book festival
and you had mentioned that
you're working on a project,
if memory serves,
of the transition
of the current administration,
I was hoping
that you could tell us a little
bit more about that project.
How it's going now
and if it's damaging
to the current administration,
please hurry up
and publish it [laugther].
>> Michael Lewis: So, the
book comes out October 2nd.
It's called "The Fifth Risk."
It's not quite finished.
The sixth risk is that
I don't finish it.
But it's not due until august
1st, so there's some time.
It's basically done.
And it started as a
series in "Vanity Fair."
And the premise in the beginning
was well I was astonished
to learn actually, that, by law,
that the outgoing
administration is required
to make all these elaborate
preparations for the transition.
And as they should, because much
of what the federal government
does not ideological at all.
There's just like here's
what we're working on,
or here are the problems,
or here are the risks.
And there are thousands
of people
in the federal government,
spent many,
many months generating
these briefings
and briefing documents.
And you can get just
about the best course
in how the government works
ever created by just going
and listening to briefings.
And the Trump team had
not gotten any of them,
basically they'd not shown
up for the transition.
And because Trump had fired
them all, the people who were
in place, who he was apparently
a little bit aware of,
fired them all right
after he won.
So, I went and got
the briefings.
And I went, and I actually
had people brief me
who would have briefed, in place
where I thought were
most interesting,
or most frightening.
And you know you
can't write a book
about the whole federal
government,
it would be 60,000 pages long.
But it is true that if you
parachuted me into any agency
of the federal government, I
could find you a great story.
Because of just how
mismanaged it is.
Mismanaged in this
particular case.
I mean there's general problems
that transcend the
Trump Administration,
and the Trump Administration
in many ways are a
symptom not a cause.
They're a symptom of decades of
trashing the federal government.
For the people who actually
believe that it's just
like this pointless enterprise,
where if it falls apart,
you won't believe
what's going to happen.
But, so the book is me cherry
picking what I think is the
material that will be most
interesting to readers
who don't really know what goes
on inside the federal
government.
And I'll be back to talk about
it in three months [laughter].
>> Speaker 2: Hi, so I'm about
a quarter of the way through
"The Undoing Project."
So, in looking at the cognitive
biases that you talk about.
How does that sort of what
you've learned about that stuff,
sort of shed light
on kind of your
"Moneyball" and those ideas.
>> Michael Lewis: So, I have a
very fun experience, which is,
I mean it was unique
in my writing career,
that after "Moneyball" came out,
there was a review
I actually read.
I tend not to read the reviews.
And the review was
by Dick Thaler,
who just won the Nobel Prize
in Economics, and Cass Sunstein
who was in the Obama
Administration,
he's a law professor at Harvard.
And they basically said
that I didn't understand
the point of my story.
That I thought it was about
what I thought it was about.
But what it was really about
in their view, was a case study
in the wisdom of the
work done by Amos Tversky
and Daniel Kahneman two
Israeli psychologists
who explored how the
human mind screws
up with making intuitive
judgments.
Because what these baseball
scouts had been doing,
that had led to the
miss valuation players,
was just using their
intuitive judgment
when there was actually a
statistical answer at hand
about whether that this
player was good or not good.
And so, that sent me scurrying
to start to read the works
of Kahneman and Tversky who
I'd never heard of before,
even though the year I was
working on "Moneyball,"
Kahneman, a psychologist
who knew no economics,
won the Nobel Prize of Economics
for having changed the
discipline from outside.
So, what subsequently, the
book, I wrote about them,
kind of informed me after the
fact because sort of the buckets
that a psychologist would place
the errors, the various errors
that the baseball
scouts were making.
I think most of them were
described one way or another
in "Moneyball" but
in different language
and with a different
depth of understanding.
That these people
had gone out and kind
of in a scientifically
plausible way demonstrated
that all human beings did it.
That is wasn't just
baseball stuff.
If you'd asked me
when I was working
on "Moneyball" why
is this happening.
It's a question I
should have asked right?
Like, why is the market
making these mistakes.
I didn't think baseball
scouts were stupid.
I really enjoyed the time I
spent with baseball scouts.
But I would've said this is kind
of like a groupthink going on.
Something like, it would have
been kind of like peculiar
to these people in some way.
That it was so universal
that the economy
of diversity would
take all kind of people
and replicate exactly the same
mistakes the baseball scouts
were making across a
range of human judgments.
That was really interesting.
And so, the story ended
up being, I mean it kind
of partly explains why
"Moneyball" was as successful
as it was because it was even
more universal than I thought,
the problems that they
were dealing with.
>> Rob Neyer: And by the way,
cognitive biases haven't exactly
gone away, even in baseball.
They're still out there,
there are just different ones,
to a large degree than
there were 15, 16 years ago.
>> Michael Lewis:
Right and Kahneman
and Tversky would have told you
at the time, that as amusing
as it is to them to classify
human idiocy, that them writing
about it and classifying
it isn't going
to diminish in any way.
That they themselves
remain; they themselves,
two of the smartest
people walking
around the planet
were amused by how,
even after they'd
done all their work,
they were susceptible
to the same problems.
That we were wired to make
certain kinds of mistakes.
>> Rob Neyer: So, the
smartest baseball people know
that they're suffering
from biases
and they do what they can.
>> Michael Lewis: To not
trust their judgment.
>> Rob Neyer: Right.
>> Michael Lewis.
Right.
>> Susan Reyburn: Got
another question over here.
>> Speaker 3: Thanks,
great talk.
Billy Beane was one of
those miss valued players,
in the other direction.
And you get into it in the book.
Why would he let you in,
regardless of whether
it's about him or not?
Why would he let
you into the tribe?
>> Michael Lewis: You know,
he did it only reluctantly.
And he did it.
I'm going to tell you
exactly what happened.
So, I go start to inform
the players in the clubhouse
about how the lab
experiment is going down.
And so, I start to get into
the organization that way.
And then I can come
back to the front office
and tell them things about
their players they didn't know.
I mean little things, but you
know how they were behaving.
Who was maybe smoking dope.
That kind of stuff.
And so, I made myself
somewhat useful to them.
Not hugely, but I
wasn't just an annoyance.
I wasn't just an
annoying presence.
I somehow sometimes had things
to say that they wanted to hear.
And so, he let me just loiter
for a long time, to the point
where they kind of forgot
I wasn't part of the staff.
And he's said that since.
He said, you know we
just started thinking,
he just kind of works here.
But talking to Billy Beane
about himself is not easy.
He's very self-protective.
And he did not have
much interest
in the psychology
of Billy Beane.
A lot of other people
did, but he didn't.
And the way I found it's easiest
to get people to tell you
about themselves,
one way or the other,
is to do things with them.
So, I started to orchestrate
things I would do with Billy.
And one of the things I would
do is I would make him take me
when he would go look at
his minor league teams.
So, he would go drive
to Sacramento,
and drive to Modesto
from Oakland.
And the drive home was
always in the dark.
And in the dark, he couldn't
see that I had the notepad open,
and I was writing [laughter].
But there was something
about being alone in the dark
where he would start
talking to me, in a way,
when I would ask him questions
about like why he got so angry
when he struck out
in minor leagues,
or you know why he thought
his career hadn't gone the way
it was.
And he was more acute
about his own self
in those drives then
he was any other time.
And I got to the
point, where I thought,
I mean I could barely
read what I had written.
I did the writing is
all over the notepad.
I was turning pages, because
I wasn't sure I was writing
over what I had already written.
But I got to the
point where I thought,
I probably haven't gotten to
completely the bottom of this,
I probably won't,
but I've got enough.
And the enough was
realizing that he was very,
very aware that baseball
had screwed up his life.
That he had this other narrative
that he really should not have
signed with the New York Mets.
He really should
have gone to Stanford
and been the quarterback
after John Elway.
He probably would have played
in the NFL as a free safety.
And he would have had
a Stanford education.
And as smart as Billy
Beane is, and as on top
of the world as he is.
I mean he's as on top of the
world as any human being I know.
It's just like he rules the
world, he retains a charming,
intellectual insecurity that
he didn't go to college.
He eventually went
back and got a degree.
But he didn't have
a really deep,
rich educational experience.
He missed out on something and
he knows he missed out on it.
It really bothered him.
So, once you know that
about him, you know part
of what's going on here is a
little bit of a revenge fantasy,
that part of what's going
on is they miss valued me
and screwed up my life.
I'm going to screw
them up by figuring
out how to do this properly.
>> Rob Neyer: But, you
know I should mention
that Billy Beane isn't
the only one who's opened
up to Michael Lewis.
You're the common
denominator here.
You got a certain way
of engaging with people.
Which you might not want to
talk about at great length,
but there are; he's
not the only one.
>> Michael Lewis: You try not
to be tedious to be around.
I mean if you're not
tedious to be around,
eventually people are going
to tell you who they are.
>> Rob Neyer: And a
lot of people love
to talk about their work.
You want to start a
conversation with a stranger,
ask them about their work.
And sometimes, they'll be great.
Sometimes they'll
speak for 20 minutes
and you'll be bored,
but they will talk.
>> Michael Lewis: That's true.
>> Rob Neyer: Do we
have time for one more?
>> Susan Reyburn:
We can do one more.
>> Speaker 4: Hi, as you said,
baseball has changed, so much,
you know from "Moneyball" now
we see everyone's datamining,
right?
So, what do you think is going
to happen in the trajectory
of the sport now, and you're
looking at e-sports and betting,
all of these other issues.
Do you think that the game will
retain some of the integrity
that it has right now?
>> Michael Lewis: That's funny,
it's charming that you think
that the game has retained
[laughter] integrity.
I'm not sure integrity is
what it's ever been selling.
So, I don't; if we're
talking about just baseball,
but the professional
sports generally.
I don't worry that much about
the integrity of the game like,
oh because gambling is now;
sports betting is now legalized
that everybody's going to
be betting on the side.
There's actually too
much at stake for a kind
of black socks kind
of scandal now.
I think to happen.
I mean, so that kind of
thing doesn't worry me.
The question is, 50 years
from now, will anybody want
to watch a baseball game.
And that, I don't know I
mean I think it's so much
of the appeal fo the
game is rooted in;
you know this is the thing that
ended up, of a lot of stuff
that ended up on the
cutting room floor
of the book I never wrote.
And where I thought,
there's rich material here,
I just never figured
out how to do it.
And some of the richest material
was to discover that even
for players who were so
battle-hardened and successful
as the people who were
drafted by the Oakland A's
to play professional baseball,
even those people were playing
in ways that were rooted in
their childhood experience.
There was a player who could
only hit lefthanded pitching
because his whole childhood he's
only seen lefthanded pitching
from an adoptive father.
He was great hitting lefthanded
pitching, and he just never got
around to hitting right
handers in the same way.
There was a player who,
Martin, who developed his swing
in his backyard, he was
a lefthanded hitter,
he played wiffleball
every day for years
with his older brothers,
and their left field fence,
was way short, and the right
field fence was forever.
So, everything was
the other way.
He couldn't get it out of
his swing in the big leagues.
And the emotion of the
sport is the same way.
It's rooted in the experiences
you had as a little kid,
often with your parents,
your dad,
or with friends playing
the game.
And your attachment
to the sport later
in life is the echoing
of those feelings.
Now, I look around me and I
see little leagues that are,
and my son really wants
to play basketball,
despite being given every
reason by me to play baseball.
And I see that with
a lot of kids.
The game is just a
little slow for them.
It's out of step with the
way they live their lives.
And I think that's
the risk to the game.
That as long as you
preserve that childhood,
of vibrant little league,
the game will be great.
And people will want
to watch it.
But if America's youth move on
to another game, it's doomed.
>> Rob Neyer: Thank you all.
[ Applause ]
>> This has been a
presentation of the Library
of Congress, visit
us at loc.gov.