>> Sean Khorsandi: Good
afternoon again, everyone.
Thank you for returning.
We're more than halfway through
and we've had a great morning,
so we're hoping to
maintain the momentum.
We wanted to make sure that
when planning the symposium
that we included practitioners
because as even Dean
Stern just mentioned,
former Dean Stern just
mentioned he was --
this was such an integral part
of who Paul Marvin Rudolph was.
We have a distinguished
panel today of practitioners
who have had the pleasure and
the pain of working on updating,
renovating, restoring, and
in other ways intervening
and responding to
Paul Rudolph works.
Each architect will present
their projects and challenges
and Bob Bruegmann will respond
and for us and lead questions.
The first member of the
panel is Andy Bernheimer.
Andrew Bernheimer is a
Brooklyn based architect
and assistant professor
of architecture
at the Parsons School of Design.
Bernheimer leads an
eponymous from responsible
for a wide variety
of residential,
civic and cultural projects,
including a new multiunit
affordable housing development
across the five boroughs as well
as an award-winning
private residences
in the northeast region.
He edited the book
"Timber in the City,"
which features innovative
projects,
practices in wood construction,
published by Oro additions.
He also sits on the advisory
board of the Institute
for Public Architecture.
He is the Co-chair of Van
Allen's Program Council
and is a fellow of the forum for
urban design as well as a member
of the Architectural
League of New York.
In 2018 Bernheimer was elevated
to the College of Fellows
of the American Institute
of Architects.
As director of the master of
architecture program at Parsons
from 2012 to 2016 Bernheimer
oversaw a graduate program known
for its connection
between theory and practice
with a distinct focus on
New York City's communities
and their constructed
environments.
The program includes a
signature of design build studio
and cross disciplinary
curricular opportunities
with graduate programs in
lighting and interior design.
Previously Bernheimer
was a founding partner
of the award winning from
Della Valle Bernheimer.
In 2009 I think make a
monograph of the first decade
of their practice of Della
Valle Bernheimer was published
by Princeton Architectural
Press.
Please welcome Andy Bernheimer.
>> Andy Bernheimer:
Well, thank you Sean.
Thanks to the Rudolph
Foundation, Sean Dan,
thanks to all the
other speakers.
And thanks to the -- I guess
ever and always Dean Stern.
When Sean invited me to this,
I was very happy
accept the invitation.
Had I known that I was
going to have to follow Bob,
I might've rethought that.
It's like a nightmare
to follow him.
One thing that I've
realized in listening
to this morning's talks and I
say this not because I think
that it's really charming
to be self deprecating,
though it might be,
is that I realized
that now I'm probably the least
knowledgeable person among this
really incredible group.
And so, at the moment I'm
feeling quite self conscious
about that fact.
I did want to talk
to you a little bit
about 23 Beekman Place, which
was Rudolph's own residence
in New York City on the
east side of Manhattan.
And I really want to
acknowledge the people
who actually also made
this project happen.
First Sean alluded to him,
Jared Dell Valle my good friend,
former business partner and
also an incredible architect,
a gentleman named Adam Ruedig
who went to Yale and was
in our office at the
time and led this project
and Adam's work was
absolutely indispensable.
The contractor, Cory Ward, who
helped bring us this project
and also the client
who I will protect
by remaining -- leaving
him nameless.
This project is iconic.
I think many of you
probably know this.
And you face a real
dilemma when you have
to work within that icon.
There's the legacy of the
history of that place.
There's danger in engaging
that kind of space.
A few things that went
into that sense of risk
when we started this
project is that I was not --
I might not even be, but I
was definitely not a mature
architect at the time
that we were talked
to about this project.
We were -- Jared and I were
definitely not Rudolph scholars
actually, nor am I a
Rudolf scholar now.
I was not a Yalie.
I got rejected by Yale,
so we can psychoanalyze
that all day long.
If we want to.
But there was a lot of
history in this building.
This is the post restoration of
the exterior on Beekman Place
that was on the east
side of Manhattan.
The rear of the building
faces the East River.
You can see it from the FDR
Memorial on Roosevelt Island,
built in 1978 or
completed around 1978.
The site of Rudolph's
experimentation
about architecture, about
materiality, about space.
It was a site of
constant change.
It had made some popular waves.
It was in Wes Anderson's,
the Royal Tenenbaums,
the actor Ben Stiller in the
scene he performs a fire drill
with his kids in that scene.
If you know anything about
this apartment, if you've been
in this apartment, a fire
drill in that space has got
to be practiced dozens of times
before you get it even half,
right?
Anyways, a little piece
of popular culture.
In 1997 the house changed hands.
The photographs by Peter Aaron
from Esto that you see here.
And you'll see sort of
dotted throughout this
brief presentation.
This is the project
that we knew right from,
from popular publication
from having seen it in print,
never having seen it in person.
Reflective surfaces,
kaleidoscopic spaces,
vertigo inducing spaces.
Really just the most incredible
thing you can imagine being
inside a townhouse
in New York City.
When we received this
project, we actually got a call
from the contractor with
whom he had done a project
out on Long Island and
he said, we have a space,
client is moving on from
their cart architect.
It needs help.
So, we said, "Okay, what is it?"
He said, "The address."
And Jared and I sort of, our
ears perked up a little bit.
And we said, "Yeah,
can we come see it?"
So, we did.
And what we walked into in
fact was a total war zone.
The house had been
through some changes
after Rudolph passed away.
Owners following had actually
made some slight renovations
to it.
There were conventional
bathrooms put
in just the accoutrements
of normal domestic living
that this apartment didn't
necessarily work for.
But when we walked into
it, we found a place
that had been stripped
of a tremendous amount
of what made this
place so iconic.
You can see the left Peter's
photograph, and on the right,
this is effectively
what we walked into.
Ballisters had been stripped.
The chrome that you
see on the beans,
which actually was mylar
film had been peeled off.
Construction on a new set
of plans had been
started and then stopped.
You see the famous
chrome stair folded plate,
steel stair on the left,
acrylic -- short acrylic rails.
And on the right
what we walked into.
On the left his bedroom
with his bathroom,
with the skylight beyond
and on the right, really,
there was nothing left of this
place other than this space
and some of the finishes,
that space was critical.
Additionally, there was a
neighborly dispute this amazing
wall of windows in the main
living domestic living room
on whichever level it was
because there were something
like three dozen
horizontal layers going
to an earlier comment about
the irrelevancy of the plan.
The neighbor next door and
the owner had a Hatfield's
and McCoy's kind of goings on.
That neighbor start to build
an unreinforced masonry wall up
and then eventually
passed this window,
which has glorious
views to the South East.
So, there was a lot
of stuff going on.
There was also, from our
standpoint, a lack of knowledge
about Paul Rudolph, to
be completely honest,
other than what we knew about
his drawings and what we knew
about the images of the
projects that he made
which obviously we knew,
but we didn't really
know much about them.
So, we tried to do a little bit
of forensic archeology to find
out what was this
original place like?
'Cause it had already
been through many changes.
We couldn't find much.
There was not much with the
New York City Department
of Buildings.
There was actually not a
whole lot here at the Library
of Congress, which Adam
came down to look at.
And so, we had to stop
the project entirely.
We actually asked the client
for a little bit of time
so we could reconstruct
a set of drawings.
And we also had to engage
a different way of looking
at architecture from
our standpoint.
Jared and I went through school
and were maybe the last class
at Washington University in
Saint Louis where we didn't have
to learn to use the computer.
But we found that orthographic
drawing hand drawing,
was really not going to
work for this either.
We were half going to have
to build it full scale,
like literally full scale
to understand this space
or we you're going to
have to do it virtually.
So, this was one of the f --
this was actually the very
first project that we've worked
with entirely in the computer.
We did our research as best we
could to understand the logics,
the material strategies of
Rudolf within this place.
And we found some things.
I'm speaking to this
place as a laboratory.
This was one of the great fines.
We think this is his r --
his handwriting though,
those who knew him may tell
us it was someone else's.
Things like it was
constantly being altered.
It says Melamine,
everything, right?
So, there were spaces where
just cover it in melamine.
And that was the kind of
stuff that happened in here
where it kept changing.
So these are the drawings that
we did to understand this place,
the chrome stairs and the
vertigo that you feel there the
on this -- on the right
you see an entry space,
which is a double height area
with a walkway and a stair
that led up to the
main living space.
But we had to also accomplish
code compliant construction,
which was another trouble.
We also had to put
in a sprinkler system,
a mechanical system.
And so, we had to do
this all within a space
that didn't really have
those accoutrements.
So, thinking about materiality,
reflectivity, threshold,
and this is what resulted.
So, where we couldn't
use chrome paint
because the chrome
paint was too expensive.
We had to use chrome
laminate to create reflection.
We brushed stainless steel for
floors to create reflection,
to draw light deep into spaces.
We did explore his details
and his connections and tried
to replicate some of those in
places while inventing new ones.
We had to sneak sprinkler lines
through cabinet tree to get them
to where those sprinkler
heads needed to be
and cook those systems because
systems weren't really the
primary articulated
element in this space.
Space was.
On the left the rendering while
we were designing on the right,
you see that entry space on the
right side of this photograph.
This is actually a sink.
You can see the trap.
The trap goes into this wall
and leaves the wall while
sprinkler lines come
up and over.
All hidden inside
this multiplicity
of reflective Matt white chrome,
stainless steel surfaces.
And there's the restored,
it's also very questionable
whether it's a restoration,
it's not really a restoration
because we don't know
what we we're restoring.
It's a renovation.
I guess. It's definitely
a renovation.
It's not preservation because
we weren't preserving anything
that -- we can't preserve
what wasn't there in the end.
So, it's a very strange
exercise in a combination
of all of those things.
Some of the drawings that
we did explaining, again,
this is actually more
interesting maybe to architects
and to meet and then these
other people, but the confluence
of structure of sprinkler lines
here which wrap up and over
and trying to think about all
the surfaces that we had to wrap
to make this place not
like it was, but that --
so that it was respectful
and thoughtful
to what Rudolph had
considered this place,
which was a lab, studio a home.
And there's a view
which is really strange.
I'm looking up towards an upper
floor from the entry space w
and it's actually way more
destabilizing in person
than it is in photograph.
And it's pretty destabilizing
in photograph.
Now the view of the --
this is the entry space,
the amount of different
tones of light, warmth, cool.
All affected by the materiality,
by the translucency of surfaces.
And the master bedroom,
which had been completely
eliminated was repla --
on the left is the mass space of
the master bedroom on the right,
a space of a master bathroom
with a chromed mirror
so you can see through from
the sink to the bathtub.
A kind of display
of this duality
of translucency and
transparency.
And this photograph I like
not because of what it looks
like finished, but
because this starts
to summarize all the different
things that went into the house.
From systems, to
thinking about light,
to thinking about the planes,
the replacement of acrylic,
these are acrylic
handrails with glass.
A conversation that went on for
a very long time to try to think
about how do you make
something code compliant.
But that also keeps the
spirit of this place going.
So, on the left, what we
walked into and on the right,
what we walked out of.
Thank you.
>> Sean Khorsandi:
Thank you, Andy.
And he will be right back.
So not to fear.
Next up, we have my
fellow Cooper Union Alumni
Toshiko Mori.
Toshiko is the Robert P.
Hubbard professor in practice
of architecture at Harvard
University Graduate School
of design.
And the principle of
Toshiko Mori Architect.
Mori has designed a residential
compound, in addition
and a guest house around the
original Paul Rudolph House
in Casey Key Florida.
Her firm's recent work
includes master plans
for the Brooklyn Public
Library, central branch
and the Buffalo Botanical
Gardens.
Thread, a cultural center
and artist's residence
in rural Senegal, first school
and teachers, residents also
in Senegal and the new canopy
at the number seven line
for the Hudson Park and
Boulevard in New York City.
The firm has also
recently selected
to design Brown University's
expansion
for the Watson Institute
for International
and Public Affairs.
Their projects have been
internationally exhibited,
which includes the 2012,
2014 and upcoming 2018 Venice
architecture Biennale's.
The 2017 Chicago architecture
Biennale and Louisiana Museum
in Copenhagen in 2015.
Architectural digest listed Mori
amongst their Biennale A D 102,
2014,'16 '17 and '18.
She regularly contributes
to publications
and has won numerous awards.
The Academy award
in architecture
from the American Academy
of Arts and Letters,
the AIA New York
chapter medal of honor.
And in 2016, she was inducted
to the American Academy
of Arts and Sciences.
Her projects have one her many
awards from Architizer, the plan
and the American
Institute of Architects.
She's also recently
been named the recipient
of the Farnsworth Art Museums
2018 main in America award.
Mori served as the chair of
the Alvar Aalto Metal Jury
and has recently
been on the jury
for the Adelaide
contemporary international
design competition.
Also noteworthy like Rudolph.
Ms. Mori s a Scorpio.
Please wish her a
belated happy birthday
and please welcome Toshiko Mori.
>> Toshiko Mori: Good afternoon.
Thank you.
Yes. I share the same cycle
birthday with Paul Rudolph.
And I just have to say my --
I have to thank Bob for this
amazing talk this morning.
And as a chair of a department
of architecture,
who did I model?
But Rudolph and yes, I wrote
Yale tradition back to Harvard,
but who knows Harvard in Yale
in a football game all the time.
It goes in one place and that is
like instilling faculty
with each other.
If that's the game, I think
without rivals we can't survive.
I think only rivals
make it better.
But this whole legacy is
very important for you.
And also, my Cooper Union
graduates, it's shown in me,
John Hejduk always
used to tell me
that Rudolph is the first person
who gave me the real
teaching job.
So, no way that the generosity
of Rudolph described by Bob
and diversity of inclusion
was a very important legacy he
set forth.
So, the project I talk
about is a book at house
in cases Florida 1957.
And this is a period in which
right after collaboration
with Twitter and it's
unique in a sense
that it has this more
writing influence.
And as you can see, it
does have more heroic ideas
of county rivers and so forth.
But it's one storey building
and if you can see B,
it actually used to be
opening being either --
I was talking to Steven
Harris, got dog trot,
but now it's been closed.
So, my client had
bought this building
and lovingly restored it.
So, I have nothing to do
with the restoration here,
but it's actually kept
that in really good shape.
And then Rudolph was alive then
when I received the commission.
And the reason I received
this commission is
that I was a trustee at Van
Alen Institute in charge
of presentations
and exhibitions.
And we hired Jivoc
Myla [phonetic]
to do Paul Rudolph exhibition
because not too many people,
I'd seen his Southeast
Asia project, big towers
and combined it with
the furniture.
And when that happened,
we said --
oh, he says, I have all the
sketches and drawings and okay,
it says, "Val Alen
will try to frame it."
And Paul Rudolph said, "no,
I will frame them myself."
I say, oh, that's perfect.
And Jivoc Myla figured out all
the configurations were waiting.
This huge role appears as
delivered from Paul Rudolph,
a mark, the drawings, like
what is this huge tube
and when I wrote it,
but Paul Rudolph did is,
he went to kinetic at
local meat packing factory
and vacuum package drawings.
So the whole thing looked
like a shower curtain,
the whole thing enrolled.
And I said, well how
are we going to do it?
Is -- I just hang it like a
shower curtain so you can see
from inside or outside
dressed or undressed
and okay, that's what we do.
So that's -- and then
the client finally
who we had a mutual relationship
and then she did tell Rudolph
I'm doing a guest house.
He said she's not
touching your house,
but we bought a property
next to it.
Our kids had grown
up and we're going
to commission guest houses.
He just kind of remembered,
oh, that's, that's a girl
who did this exhibition, right?
He said okay, she can do it.
But I didn't -- wasn't able
to show him the project.
This was done in 1999.
The first one, as you can
see, T shaped guest house.
This house, Rudolph
House is long.
100 feet long, a
one-bedroom house.
And the family kept
growing sweet kids.
At night you have to go
100 feet to get a glass
of water in the kitchen.
So [inaudible] They say
they want something compact
that they can have three kids.
So, I proposed this addition,
not really addition guest house
in the next property which
is connected by a path.
And the code change, hurricane
Andrew hit this area in 1992
so a complete upgrade the --
when Vera Winnco hurricane
code and also flood.
So, we cannot build
on the ground anymore
like he used to do.
And we had to put them up on
pillar T in [inaudible] able
to figure out the wave crest
height for each vision.
Very detailed data and then no
habitable space can be existing
below it.
So -- and then also hurricane
code would not allow me ever
to be able to build in
anywhere like good of that.
That's -- what's funny
about this region is
that it was Hurricane Andrew,
no Elma didn't damage it.
It's on a sand dune, I'd say
very narrow sand dune Gulf
of Mexico Bay and Gulf of Mexico
has a very, very shallow bet.
So, when hurricane comes to this
area, it comes from the south
and goes to northeast or
goes to the extreme west.
So that's one of the reasons why
I think some [inaudible] Robert
is here, many of the houses,
buildings from a Rudolph 50s
and 60s still remain intact.
It's a great location.
The secret that - so --
but at the same time
we had to do the code.
So, my project has to do is
how to continue the legacy
of Rudolph and yet meet the kind
of code and to have this idea
that it's a new building.
It's by me, not by
Rudolph, but this idea
of conversations going, it's
like three bedrooms and heights.
And as you can see, it's
got a stair in the middle
and two bearings are separated.
It's not connected so that
it will reduce the impact
of a wind load to -- and my
important aspect of that,
it's going to be
built on stairs.
Like you see it's quite of
a civic engineering there.
A civil engineering there.
The same concrete blocks he
used to use our color blocks
in a quarry in Florida, but
that quarry has already been
excavated out.
But we were able to use a local
more pink like with some fossil
in it, very similar to it and
then the whole thing is built
in concrete and steel
in combinations.
They have cast in place
concrete and steel verticals.
That's how we actually worked
the whole hallway through.
And then this stair is in
a tradition of the past.
It's looking back at the main
house and from the main house.
This is how you look back at it.
And also, energy code is another
one, very strict energy code
that we have to work
on performance basis.
But we also want to keep the
character of a large expands
or glazing, which is very much
of a characteristics
of Rudolph houses.
And what we did here -- and
also what we did here is
to have some fit pattern.
You can see the views later
from interior, from exterior,
it looks white opaque, but
it's a series of white dots
which would helping
to insulate in helping
to reflect the light off.
But from inside it's black
dots so you can see through it,
has keeps a transparency.
And as I explained before,
I'd had to be raised
but I actually raised
it higher than required
so that there is a view
between gulf and a bay
that can be continuous.
And also, the new residential
area, habitable space is
within a tree canopy so that
the tree canopy can provide
a shading.
And what I learned about
Rudolph in this theory,
he was very sensitive
to the site
in citing ventilation, shading.
Everything works very
well, very comfortable.
And there's something
of a optimistic,
relaxed tropical nature
to this theory of Rudolph,
which may not appear elsewhere.
There's some remnant of
some in Southeast Asia,
but it becomes a much
lighter project so forth.
So, I want to really
understand this idea
and what he would
figure it out --
how I would do it in
the site and so forth.
So, for me its interpretation
in a spirit of Rudolph.
As you can see in a short
side is facing the bay side
and the long side the gulf side.
And you can see that's actually
-t hat's a short side phasing
a base.
So, in a sense from
the road it has less
of a presence of addition.
But in a gulf side beach side,
he tends to have much
more dramatic site.
And that's interior as you
can see because of the dots,
you can see right through
them simply furnished
and a casting place concrete
with inlaid bamboo wood floor.
And this is also a polished
cast in place concrete here.
And then a furniture,
always interested
in material experiments in which
I use the bulletproof fiberglass
as a material to do
all the cabinets.
Again, the tropical climate
cabinets are challenges.
So, in a way say of
easy maintenance,
which he also considered to the
idea of his main house as well.
And also, environmental
issues of biological,
a requirement by
biology of a site.
The Gulf of Mexico's is
a sea turtle habitat.
So, we are not allowed to
have any lighting exposed,
no lights after 10
o'clock at all, darkness.
So that turtles don't get
confused where the light is.
And also, when we are
building this we had
to do a diary for manatees.
Manatees protect, manatees
protect the sea grass
and aquatic vegetables.
It's so to prevent erosion of a
site, we had to do diary every
to [inaudible] and basically
you had to sign up as
with the building
permit that if we hurt
or even killed manatee me
and a contractor would
get to go to jail.
So, no way I think we had to
deal with not only Rudolph
but see turtles and manatees.
And hurricane or flood on in
addition to all of these issues.
So that's actually
the site as it is.
And as you can see, it
is a very large house,
but also therefore is to
make it compact to see
which the main player
of this whole idea.
And that was 1999.
In 2005 by then their kids
have grown up, had families,
they started to occupy not only
the guest house, the main house.
So, they called me back
and said I want an addition
to the Rudolph House.
And I said, really.
He says, yes, I have
so many grandchildren.
We are being kicked out,
but we want to live nearby.
There's one thing though that
Rudolph said to me is the fact
that he was happy that I'm
not touching the house,
but he hated the pool.
Pool was never meant to be.
He says anything there in
the pool and everything is,
I'm not -- I have
nothing to do with me.
So, I avoid that confrontational
aspect with rob about this.
But then now I had to
kind of deal with this
and L shaped piece
is the addition,
which actually connects
to the Rudolph
and it has a very
delicate balance.
I think the drawings maybe
be a little difficult.
I think that this one shows
I just took one element
of Rudolph extended it to
make addition as [inaudible].
Some really delicate element
which had to do with a garden
but keeps a module of his
architecture into connecting.
So, in a sense it is addition
by very minimum means,
but in essence it will read
as independent building.
But again, this is a steel
and concrete building in glass
and actually repeat
same wood module.
And therefore, in a --
like in previous one,
the steel structure
can be as small
as the same size as
a wood structure.
So, it's just does not look
like a steel structure,
but it retains a
similar modulation scale
of buildings of a Rudolph.
And then that' the
pool he hated.
But I didn't touch it, but
you can see the trellis
which actually kind
of disappears.
But in a sense it connects
it very delicate relationship
to what's been happening here.
And um, this is a master bedroom
above and now grandparents house
and also works as a
pool house for kids.
The previous house had stairs.
Stainless.
Stainless doesn't
mean staying free.
Stainless and as, and the
clients they are bankers.
You have no time to clean.
Can you really figure
out a new material?
Rudolph always experimented it.
So, I do come up with new
material for the stairs.
I came up with this
fiberglass stair which is made
by Eric Gutts [phonetic]
who makes America's cup
boats in Rhode Island.
And so [inaudible] stare weigh
300 pounds carried by two people
and then it's hang by
[inaudible] from a ceiling.
And this was a challenge
because you can imagine
with a code compliance and
everything, but it turns
out to be the load to the stair
to the boat is a lateral load,
is it same as the wind load?
So, with a boat building,
engineer and local engineer,
when they look at the
formula, it completely matches.
And therefore, this
passed the code
for a strict Florida aqua shows.
So, this was kind of interesting
innovation, which is in the back
of mind Rudolph always
urging me to innovate,
to experiment and so forth.
So that's actually their parents
and also having a live vogue
as intermediary in this
sense also helps in terms
of managing buildings on
this site is a landscape.
Cornet at Glendale in Australia
was a landscape architect
of that.
So, this is the true project
I'm showing you today.
Thank you.
>> Sean Khorsandi: I'm so glad
the Manatees were not harmed
so you could be with us today.
Arthur practitioner
is Steven Harris,
a native of northern Florida.
Steven Harris is
the founding partner
of Steven Harris
Architects in New York.
He was educated at New
College, the Rhode Island School
of Design and Princeton
University.
He's a professor of architecture
at Yale where he has taught
for more than 25 years
and he previously taught
at Princeton and Harvard.
Since establishing
Steven Harris Architects
in 1985 he has led the
design of an extensive range
of residential, commercial,
and institutional projects
with a particular
fondness and skill
for exploring the architectural
potential of residential life.
Under his direction.
The firm has completed projects
in New York, Connecticut,
New Jersey, Florida,
California, and other areas
of the United States as well
as Mexico, South Africa,
Costa Rica, and Croatia.
Diversity is a hallmark of his
prolific and innovative work.
AIA Award winning projects
range from Manhattan townhouse
to a bowling alley and
pool hall in Queens,
New York to the southeast
most private residence
on the Baja Peninsula.
In 2008, Harris was inducted
into the interior
design hall of fame.
Harris's work is regularly
featured in a variety
of international
publications and books.
Steven Harris architects
has been included
in the HD 100 looks gold list
and LD decor A list since 2012.
Harris co edited the
book "Architecture
of the everyday"
with Deborah Burke.
His insights, experiences and
works have contributed much
to the landscape of contemporary
architecture and he continues
to lecture worldwide from
seminars at Yale to the Benelli
in Santiago, Chile to here.
When he's not in the office.
Harris can be found on
vintage driving rallies
around the world.
In the last few years
he completed the peaking
to Paris endurance
rally and came in second
for the great South
American challenge.
Please welcome Steven Harris
>> Steven Harris:
Thank you Sean.
Thank you, Bob, for
that extraordinary talk.
Thank you, Ian.
George, Shawn, and then for
helping to organize this.
My relationship with Paul
Rudolph goes a long way back.
I grew up as Sean said, in
northern Florida more precisely
on the Atlantic, just
south of Jacksonville.
There was a house there
when I was about --
I remember when that
was about 14,
when I was about 17 I
went to the parties there.
They were out -- they
were extraordinary parties
of this 1967.
It was the Myelin House.
It was the middle of a sand
Dune near Surfing Beach
and there were a lot of very
interesting people in Pajamas
and Palazzo pants
and sometimes less.
But it was that period.
Then when I was at new college,
I am choosing to move off campus
because of a trustee
the college was able
to spend a semester living in
one of the Queensland cottages.
One of the catenary roofed a
little cottages on Siesta key,
which was an extraordinary
experience as you can imagine
for a kid who was 21
or something like that.
And my next encounter with
Paul Rudolph was at Yale.
When I first began teaching
there and would stay overnight.
There was no way you could
afford to stay at the colony
that costs like $70 a night.
And it was outrageously
expensive.
So, Yale happened to have
this guest apartment,
which was adjacent
to the elevator core
and had a little shower,
a little sitting
area, all of that.
I think there's quite a long
list of interesting people
who have stayed in there.
One of my greatest memory
of it is the shower.
The shower was about this
big and like the outside
of the building was a
Bush hammered concrete.
So, it sort of brought new
meaning to the term exfoliation.
I mean, you have to came
out of their bleeding.
Finally, the fourth
interchange or experience
with Paul Rudolph is this little
house in the West village.
Unlike the Andy with the Chico.
This was a very modest
project for us,
and it was a very curious house.
It was -- it's at 42 West 11th
street and Rudolph was working
for a man named Donald Zuker
[phonetic] and his wife,
he was working -- they
were real estate developers
and he was working for them
on much larger buildings
in midtown and uptown.
Some of you may know
the feature.
It's a 33-story building
on Second Avenue
or Third Avenue in 32nd street.
You can spot it because all the
balconies go off at a diagonal.
It looks like an
axonometric drawing
that somebody actually built
the exact -- the axial.
Instead of it so all the
balconies are parallelograms.
Well, in the process of
doing this building with
or out working on this
project with Zucker.
The Zuckers were in the
process of a divorce
and extraordinarily
contentious divorce.
He was running off with
his secretary and part
of the settlement
was that he had
to have Rudolph renovate the
house they had bought the year
earlier on 11th Street.
This is an 1840s, polite little
Georgian house in the middle
of one of the most beautiful
streets in the West village.
The facade, obviously being
in a landmark district was
not open for a discussion.
And when he began this,
Mr. Zucker decided to do it
as frugally as he could.
So whatever one would have
associated with Rudolph
at the time, instead of
being rendered in steel
or bronze was rendered in two
by fours and one by six, six.
Instead of having any
integrated mechanical system,
it was all piled on the roof.
Instead of modifying the
existing stair or any
of the woods framing in
the house, it was all left.
So, it was this sort of
odd, sort of quirky house.
The house was then in 93,
the interiors were redone.
What? There wasn't much
of the Rudolph Interior,
I don't think done
originally, but in --
but by the time it came to us,
the interior had been redone.
It was actually featured
in Florida Design Magazine.
I'm not sure why, but the thing
I remember most is that in --
on the ground floor,
the room closest
to the street was a plastic
one piece shower, a bath tub
or thing, which people
in my office referred
to as the orgasmatron and
it was completely visible
from the street.
And we're fairly confident
that was not a part
of the original sort
of Rudolph piece.
The thing that intrigued
us the most was the frame
on the back of the house.
Obviously, that's the thing
which is most distinguished
about this and the
stair to the garden.
Obviously, the Walker
Guest House.
I was lucky enough
recently to walk
through the recreation of it.
It had been on the grounds of
the Ringling Museum in Sarasota,
now has been transported to
the Palm Springs Art Museum
in California and will be
the centerpiece of modernism.
But from what I understand,
it is a precise replica
of the original and it is
absolutely astonishing to look
at the level of detail
and the care
with which what is apparently
an extraordinarily modest little
wood screen porch
has been detailed.
Every casing around the
door, and the consistency
with which every member is
attached is really beautiful.
And it seems to me
that that frame is one
of the first times Rudolph
uses that kind of articulation
of double edged, in this
case with construction.
In some ways it seems to me
its woods trying to be steel,
that it's also a framing
of space outside of itself.
The house is I think 24 by
24, and then when you add
out the outriggers and obviously
becomes considerably larger.
On the left is the Myelin House,
the site of rather
extraordinary parties.
The others are also examples
of the relationship between,
in some cases, the
frame is an expression
of the room that is behind it.
What I think Shawn and Dean
and we're calling thrust
of various guys and others
it's some sort of cross
between a breeze lay a
compositional strategy
that somehow is metaphorically
indicative
of what's happening
specially behind it.
In the case of, obviously other
examples of this same thing
and more urban situation are
the modulator building his
own house.
And the House that I can think
of is the host of the house,
which I understand Tom Ford
is in the process of buying
and hopefully restoring after
it's unfortunate tendency
for the last few years.
But again, these are steel
buildings, steel frames,
the same idea as what
began with, I think,
the Walker Guesthouse.
Then onto the Myelin house
and things of that sort.
Clearly the modulator building,
those frames don't have a
direct one to one correspondence
with the spaces for
drove behind them.
This is the front of that
house and about 1930,
it is the one directly above
the tripod with a dark door.
It still looks very
much like that.
Probably a slightly
better shape.
This is the only drawing
we have of the house.
It's from the New York
City buildings apartment.
We don't believe that the --
that you have any
archive for this house.
We've tried, you know, and
researched it under the address
under Zucker, under, you
know, all of those things.
If they do exist, it'd
be fabulous to see them.
But I think it was a kind
of a professional courtesy
that was done to a client
for much bigger projects.
What's interesting to me about
it is the right-hand side
of the drawing shows the frame
that's not what was built.
There's a different layout
in a different configuration
of spaces in it.
The photograph to the left
is the most photo-shopped hot
rotted a real estate listing
photograph you can imagine.
We think it was probably taken
about 10 years before
the house was sold.
On the right is a photograph,
pretty much the condition
of the house when
we encountered it.
Everything was wood.
The wood was incredibly
deteriorated.
However, there was still
-- it was still quite clear
and how it was detailed that
it appeared, at least to us
to be wood representing steel.
I mean the way in which the
a one by sixes are appended
to the side of the two buys,
trying to represent a W section.
And so, we documented the
entire thing piece by piece.
The other thing that was
happening was it being wood,
it being in New York,
they're being termites
and everything else
was falling apart.
There was no possibility
of preserving it.
You couldn't disassemble
it without a rotting.
There were places where if you
could not walk down the steps
because you would step
through the -- a tread.
So -- but I think a lot of
its intention was intact even
if it had been rendered
in a, shall we say,
cost effective manner.
Everything was -- if you look
at the dimension on the one
with the tape, you'll recognize
that, that it does not appear
to be a legitimate
lumber dimension
from that period of time.
Things pretty much like the
Walker Guesthouse, those pieces
of wood we're actually milled
to meet other dimensions.
It wasn't off the rack stuff
that was just put together.
It was quite intentional.
The far right is what
the roof looked like.
The entire mechanical
system was up there,
in the center is
what the penthouse
or the master bedroom was like.
And this was when the
house was being shown.
This is as good as they
could make it look.
You know, this wasn't after
it had been abandoned for,
you know, for six years.
This was -- people
were living here.
Then you know, we began to
look -- in our proposal,
we were looking very carefully
at how he detailed steel
and how you could make the
steel be detailed like the wood.
In some ways what we
were doing was making,
in this case it's not steel,
it's bronze, make bronze look
like wood imitating steel.
So, it's like a double -- I
mean I have a friend who talked
about in the 80's people
were buying Pontiac fieros
if you know them.
It was a cheap little
mid engine car
and somebody was making
a fake Ferrari F 40 body
that they were putting
on a Pontiac Fiero.
We always wanted somebody
to buy an f 40 Ferrari
and put a Fiero body on it.
So, in a way what we're
doing is going from big --
using a very expensive material
to imitate a cheap material
which was imitating a
moderately expensive material.
So, you know, it is that
screen which consumed a lot
of our effort and time.
It was actually made by this
extraordinary firm in Paris.
They also have a place in --
it's called Horace bronze.
They also make most beautiful
windows on the planet,
but they made that screen and
the facade behind it for us.
Because they were able to do
things and, and dimensions
which were very much like the
much earlier steel dimensions
from the 60s.
I mentioned that the drawing on
the left shows what was filed
with the building department.
The drawing in the center
shows what we encountered.
You will notice that
the horizontal member
between this horizontal,
can you say that?
Is that moving okay.
Means there was a large pedal
there at a smaller, when they're
in a smaller one there,
that's not what was built.
It was a sort of small --
the largest one was there
at that upper one was there.
The section of the building
did have a double height space
in the center and an
offset sort of balcony.
Those we adjusted and rebuilt.
So, again, in this case we
were able to make the plan
and the section conform
to the elevation.
So, you know, there's a --
if not a direct one
to one correspondence
that elevation does
have some relationship
to the internal organization
of the building.
That's how it is now.
It's -- the master
bedroom was rebuilt.
If you recall the photograph
of the all the detritus
that was up there.
The glass is -- there are,
as I think Tishiko
discovered the same trick,
a very fine wires that
have to be code in order
to accommodate the handrails.
The stair is -- the
original stair had
to stringers because
it was wood.
This has one because it can.
The handrails are even finer
than the ones that we're
in the original Rudolph House.
The -- I can't remember
the author,
but there's an extraordinary
essay on the welds
and the Farnsworth
House as a kind of index
into the whole conception of how
the steel and the glass meet.
I think the stair here goes
a long way toward talking
about what the idea
of the section is.
The stair is because it
has no vertical surfaces
because it is a piece of
the ground that has been cut
and transported and
stacked as it goes up.
It's like a progressively
raised ground plane
and how it's framed.
In this case, the owner chose
to excavate the entire
garden about 12 feet.
So, the garden is on
the roof of a series
of spaces which occur below.
So, in laying out the garden,
similarly, that same idea
of the stair of where there
were a series of planes,
which slide back at --
which slide past each other.
You know, I think suggested and
in fact that bamboo is growing
out of a garden that
is 9 feet lower
or 10 feet lower
than that plane.
So, there is a whole
space underneath there
and there are these
other planes that stack
down there that was never there.
But it is -- it was a way
of engaging in that garden.
Again, the stair rather than
using glass, there was water
that was used underneath
it hoping to reflect it
and avoid the problem of what
you do underneath the stair.
This is the facade it is --
although it is bronze,
it is painted bronze.
Landmarks determined that bronze
was too posh for this house
and therefore ask
us to paint it.
So, it is bronze painted
to look like bronze,
which is imitating wood, painted
to look like bronze, which was,
which wanted to be steel
in the first place.
So, you know, it's a little
like starts waiter and nausea,
you know, it's how many removes
from the obvious can you get,
so that's from above looking
down on it where, I think, yeah.
Here are parts of those same
things originally and after.
That's the original condition.
Similarly, that was
the original stair.
You can see those have
a double stringers.
I think we have one.
These are, you know, a
bit thinner and find her
and have a different
detail about their edge.
Those of you who know the
Farnsworth house well know
that the detail of the trends
that go from the garden
to that first landing
are exquisite.
Another shot.
You've already seen them.
Other photographs
of how it looks
with the side, how it's built.
I mean, I -- if I have a regret,
it's that the bronze is painted.
I think it would've been
beautiful had it all been
allowed to remain that way.
>> Sean Khorsandi: All right.
Thank you.
Don't go too, too far Steven.
Our responding and we're
going to invite the panel back
up in a moment is
Robert Bergman.
An architectural
historian and critic,
Brakeman is also professor
emeritus of art history,
architecture and urban
planning at the University
of Illinois at Chicago.
He's the author of
Monographs on Harry Weise.
If anybody's just been in
the metro, Halliburton Roche
and the 2005 book
sprawl, a compact history.
His latest work, Art Deco,
Chicago designing modern
America is hot off the presses.
So, you should all get a copy.
We have asked him to come
respond, so we invite him up,
as well as the three
panelists please.
While we're assembling,
let me just add another
piece of this biography.
I was -- spent a lot of time
in 1980s with Paul Rudolph
and we've spent not much time
in this symposium
talking about that.
At the time, it's hard
to imagine how much
out of fashion he was in
the architectural world.
I was there to do an
exhibition for Steelcase,
another exhibition for the Art
Institute and I also worked
on three books that were
being done at the time.
It was very interesting
that that although I think he
felt very slighted and felt
that the generation after him
had taken a lot of his ideas,
particularly Robert Venturi,
he never fought back.
He never in public
made any statements.
But he was obviously
intensely angry.
And you heard his comments in
with a lot of expletives talking
about the contemporary scene.
So, I think it's -- one of the
things that was most striking
and I added here
because this was a --
this is we're at the library of
Congress they have the drawings,
was his attitude
about these drawings.
You've heard that he
laid these drawings out,
but he didn't always
execute them.
So, we were sitting
in his apartment
and in the ledge behind
him, he had a whole stack
of drawings were just sort
of helter skelter there.
He took them out to explain to
me how badly they were executed
by people in his office.
So, he was holding this up
and he said, and this park
down here, and he's hitting
this drawing, this Mylar,
this beautiful ink
on Mylar drawing.
I was trying to get drawings
from him for the Art Institute.
We were trying to get the
Christian Science Center
because we were in the Midwest.
So, he's taking out a drawing.
This was at the Concourse
building in Singapore,
explaining how badly it was
done, hitting this drawing.
And then when we get across the
room and I'm thinking, you know,
this is the drawing
that's been published
in all the major magazines
and he's just throwing
this thing around.
Fortunately, it was Mylar,
I don't think was
ever really injured.
But we're here now to respond to
the three panelists we've heard
and we're also at
the end of our time.
So I thought the first thing
we should do is just among the
three of you, if any of you
have comments on the other two
of the, the work that you've
seen and, similarities,
things that you think
were different, any,
any commentary about the panel?
>> Toshiko Mori: I
think we can agree
that Andy had the hardest job
>> Steve Harris: I think so.
>> Andrew Bernheimer:
No, no, no, no, no.
That's a whole different league.
>> Toshiko Mori You had to
deal with the entire ghost.
>> Steve Harris: Yes.
>> And the ghost,
it was translated
because it was changed
constantly.
I mean, it was -- it only
starts changing because he died.
>> Andrew Bernheimer:
Yeah, I know.
But I would say that
the commonality though,
it's also about trying
to discover content.
So even in the rear frame and
that it was a material trying
to be like another
material in it.
If you have to do it new
or you have to do it again
and it's a different time.
Technology is different,
the materials aren't
always different.
But technology and
how you make things
out of those materials
is different.
That you still have to discover.
You have to kind of -- you're
not inhabiting the person body.
That's not what it is.
But you do have to think through
what did, what was the intent.
And it's always risky
because this whole, you know,
there's a larger question.
I guess we're near a
building where this idea
of original intent
might be a lot
of it is testing you right now.
>> Steve Harris: But what was
the intent of the architect?
>> Andrew Bernheimer: It's
there in all of them, I think.
I don't think it's just -- it's
not exclusive to the ghost.
That's a great word
for it by the way.
I had never thought of it as
that there were ghosts there.
But that intent I
think is, is common.
>> Steve Harris: But also, I
think there's a commonality
in which none of us --
how'd I say is trying
to historically try
to restore it.
We know that's a futile effort
and I think all we tried
to do is have to advance
the legacy of Rudolph
and how he can survive not
only today but for the years
and somehow our work
contributes to the legacy
for the future generation
to maintain continually
in discourse.
I think that's maybe
commonality.
I can see.
>> Andrew Bernheimer:
Speaking of continuity,
I'd be very curious
to hear your thoughts.
All three of you were working on
buildings where the aesthetic,
I think you could say comes
out of the fifties
and early sixties.
What do you think
of that later work?
Would you have the
same attitude toward,
do you think it's as good?
Would you have been
as careful trying
to restore the buildings
in Asia?
>> Steve Harris: I would, yes.
>> Andrew Bernheimer: Yeah.
>> Steve Harris: I think it's
actually totally underrated
for the buildings and I think
more people are visiting
and I think it's
gaining service.
I think it's ahead of time.
Now, they're all looking
at Rudolph building
as an amazing prototype for,
or the fast development
that's happening now
and human Harry Lewis.
>> Andrew Bernheimer: But
I think one of the virtues
of what we were working
on is they are articulate
and [inaudible] they're
made of parts;
they're not cast in place.
Highly contiguously.
I have a friend who was
involved with the restoration
of Bob Hope's house in
Palm Springs by Lautner.
And it's a nightmare because
although it's actually a wood
dope covered in a stuck
out to look like concrete.
And you know, there were also
four or five versions of it
in burn during construction
and which one do you go
back to and all of that.
But I think at least for us
and I think to some degree
in his house as well, you
know, you could theoretically
on almost like the Walker
House, you could take it apart
and put it back together again.
In other words, you know, you
could unbolt it or unweld it
or cut it apart because
it's not a continuous
three-dimensional form.
>> Sean Khorsandi: That's
such an important observation.
In fact, in the -- in his
hat -- in his apartment,
one of the most difficult
things was that there was,
there's actually a lot of
new work in that space.
And in that house, there's
an elevator actually
that gets you up.
The building that elevator is
about as deep as this table
and about as wide as this table.
It's really -- it's
a tiny little there.
And there's obviously a
stairwell, but getting that idea
of parts, which I forgot to
mention is -- it's so important.
So, millwork, in fact
all the mill work pieces
and there's quite
a lot of millwork
in that house was actually
brought it in pieces raw.
So, it was drawn and then
shop drawn and then fabricated
with some, you know, some
fungibility, brought in
and pieces scribed in place.
So assembled Ikea Furniture
basically, scribe in place, cut,
brought out of the site,
taken apart or taken apart,
brought on site, finished, right
shop, finished, brought back
in pieces and reassembled
in site.
And -- but that conception
of it as a kit of parts
in a way gives you an x. It
does as very young architects,
it actually allows us to
break down the project
to understand the
deeper logic of assembly
and I think that's
a great opportunity.
>> Andrew Bernheimer: I think
it's [inaudible] who just came
out with a flat pack
house or something.
>> Steve Harris:
Yeah, a few people.
>> Andrew Bernheimer:
In Subways,
the Walker Guest house is a
demonstrated version of that
because you know, it was
disassembled, you know,
put in a truck and shipped
to Palm Springs here
and put back together again.
And you know, get absolutely
is disassemblable right
in that way.
>> Steve Harris: But
it also allows you
to disguise your own hand in
a way if you follow the logic.
So, I think your question
about whether the more
larger scale the, you know,
the cast buildings
like the bigger --
it will be a very
different exercise,
very different process.
>> Andrew Bernheimer: Well isn't
it interesting though that even
in the buildings
that are concrete
that he was still
thinking of modules.
It's just the modules got
bigger, so we were thinking
about them almost as
trailers that were then put up
and you could have done
it in steel and hung them,
but instead he was
just doing in concrete.
So, in a way it was just the
module becoming bigger was still
kit of parts.
>> Sean Khorsandi: Why don't we
throw it open to the audience
and see if there's
any questions?
Comments? Yes sir.
>> Audience: Are
any of those houses
in New York City
open to the public?
Have they'd been open during
door's open for sample
or open house New
York or is there any
like there is there opportunity
for the public to see any
of his properties
in New York City?
Thanks.
>> Sean Khorsandi: If you can
convince the real estate agent
that you're rich, you can
go see the wholesale house.
Yeah, I mean, yeah.
I mean it was for sale.
>> Andrew Bernheimer: I think
the modulator building open.
>> Sean Khorsandi: Yeah,
the modulator building
[inaudible] was going to be
on the budget out of
buildings if available.
>> Steven Harris: Yeah,
it's at that Shannon dam.
>> Sean Khorsandi: They
could probably get you in.
Oh, and Mr. Harris
House, you renovate,
why didn't you just
do it in steel?
>> Steven Harris:
It was a decis --
first and we could not get the
quality of fabrication in steel
that we could in bronze.
These days structural steel
works to a much looser tolerance
and the quality of the
steel sessions themselves
and their consistency is not
what it is in bronze and wanting
to keep it as precisely
as we could.
We chose to make it in bronze
and also the owner wanted --
decided that he wanted
it to be renovated once.
And he didn't want to do
it in steel and then have
to repaint it and you
know, our 20 years and have
to do this and you know.
I think it was his decision
and we supported it just
because it was the -- I don't
know if you've ever worked
with the level of detailed
to which a bronze fabricator
works is much more precise
than it is for most
steel fabricators
that we've encountered.
I'm sure there are, you know,
if you dealt with a sculptor.
>> Sean Khorsandi: Yeah.
In the middle there.
>> Audience: My question has to
do mostly with Mr. Bernheimer
and Mr. Harris's
projects because both
of you mentioned an
interesting aspect of Rudolph
which was concealing the
building systems in part
with the sprinkler is and later
on with the electrical
plants fit.
One thing that I was wondering
if you could respond to was
that it wasn't necessarily
his modus operandi
to conceal everything.
For example, in Beekman
Place there is really --
there was a really beautiful
moment where the trap
and the hot water and cold water
for the faucet actually
goes outside the wall
and the pipes are
decoration themselves.
I know in contemporary
architecture, concealing all
of those things is much more
of an aesthetic necessity.
And I was wondering if you
could comment about his --
yeah, his not so
dogmatic understanding
about those aspects.
>> Steven Harris: I think
in some case -- it's
a good question.
Some cases the lack of systems
exposure was simply a virtue
of the fact that some of
them were not required
at the time it was constructed.
Right.
>> Andrew Bernheimer:
It wasn't a sprinkled.
>> Steven Harris: It
wasn't everywhere.
So that was something
that was not a response
to an investigation of intent.
Like, oh, he didn't want
to show them sprinklers
or there weren't any
sprinklers, right.
So, I guess the idea
of concealment
of certain things is likely --
and thinking about your question
is likely also a desire of ours.
Right. So that's
I think a good --
maybe it's a good moment
to think they self
critically about, you know,
what maybe I just said.
And also, when does the hand
of the author, the newer author
in place versus trying
to interpret
or replicate the intent
of the original author?
That's a good question.
I might respond by
saying that perhaps some
of that actually was our desire,
not necessarily a manifestation
of what we thought
his desire was.
>> Andrew Bernheimer: Although
in New York went tryp -
one typically tries to avoid
running the plumbing outside
of the envelope.
>> Sean Khorsandi:
Yeah, that's right.
That's true.
Another question.
>> Audience: Yeah,
I will just comment
about the Walker Guesthouse.
The Walker Guesthouses
on loan for 20 months.
Is that right?
20? Yeah, 20 months it's on loan
from the Sarasota architect's
foundation to Palm Springs
and there will be the be the big
symposium out there in February.
And I also want to just mention
the [inaudible] are architects,
your foundation to other
officers that are here
and that's the organization that
had the Walker Guesthouse built.
And then we go backwards.
The Walker Guesthouse -- buil --
Walker Guest House
was originally built
when there was no
bridge to Sanibel.
So, the building
was originally --
the original building was
constructed is elements
that were then taken to the
site and built into the site.
So, Rudolph certainly did do
that in his early
work very clearly.
And the other thing to mention
is another Rudolph celebration
and that's in Sarasota.
The ninth, 10th, and
11th of next month starts
at Architecture Foundation is
having a 100th birthday party
for Paul Rudolph
there, so join us.
>> Steven Harris: Yeah, I
would also point out that
at the Palm Springs modernism,
sort of birthday celebration
for Rudolph, the current dean of
Yale will speak Deborah Burke.
>> Sean Khorsandi: We have time
for one more comment
or question.
Yes sir.
>> Audience: I have a -- not
really a question or a comment.
I come from the other end, from
what you guys basically talking
about that is, the design.
I had the pleasure
of actually working
for Paul Rudolph
from 1985 to 86.
I'm a cabinet maker and I
spent about half my time
at Beekman Place,
23 Beekman Place
at that time mostly
maintaining things.
But it was definitely
interesting.
He changed a lot of
things, a lot of things
that you've wanted me to do.
It can't be done, but you
want it to have it done.
And when you spoke about
the small elevator,
some challenges you want
to bring material
up into his place.
It was just -- it was
a challenge every day,
but he was -- he was just
a, it shaped my life.
It shaped my future, my current,
you know, what I'm doing.
It was -- I mean - I'm every
-- extremely privileged to work
for him and I think
the renovation you did
is incredible.
>> Andrew Bernheimer: Thank you
>> Audience: I would
love to see it.
I mean, because I like
-- I saw it before.
>> Andrew Bernheimer: Thank you.
>> Audience: Thanks.
>> Sean Khorsandi:
Thank you all very much.
That's all we have time for.