>> Keith Knight: I was
just really into looking
for the cartoons
throughout the paper,
and that just made me
a really newspaper fan.
To this day, you know,
I drive my family crazy
by bringing newspapers home
all the time, and just,
like -- just go through
all of them,
because it's just
something I grew up on.
>> Warren Bernard: Right.
And so, what were some of
the strips that you liked?
>> Keith Knight: That I liked?
I mean, you know, back in
the day, it was, I mean,
just -- Peanuts was it.
>> Warren Bernard: Peanuts?
Peanuts was it?
>> Keith Knight:
Yeah, Peanuts was --
>> Warren Bernard: Did you read
any comic books by any chance?
I mean --
>> Keith Knight:
I really didn't.
I mean, I read comic
collections of Charlie Brown,
but I also remember
going to my library,
and they only had
two cartoon books,
which were Charlie
Brown and Doonesbury.
And what fascinated me about
Doonesbury is, clearly,
they were mixing in stuff that
was going on in present-day,
and I think that's where
I got the idea of mixing
in true-life stuff
with imaginary stuff.
And so -- and Doonesbury
really was the first cartoon
that showed me black characters
that were black characters.
They weren't just a
character that seemed just
like everybody else,
except they were black.
There was -- I remember one
early Doonesbury book where one
of the black characters knocked
on Doonesbury's door and said,
"Hey, can you give to the
local Black Panther --
campus Black Panther Party?"
And they're like, no, man,
I -- you know, I'm pretty --
you know, pretty empty today.
And another guy's like,
no, I can't do it.
So then [laughter] the
kids writes a little X
on Doonesbury's door
[laughter], walks off,
and they're like, I don't know.
This doesn't look too good.
But I just thought
that was really funny.
>> Warren Bernard: It
was the subtlety in that.
>> Keith Knight: Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
And -- but just that -- I
remember that really stuck
out in my head, but I
remember reading obviously
"MAD Magazine."
"MAD Magazine" was a huge
influence on me, and then --
but back in the day, you know,
it was "Book County"
[assumed spelling] was huge.
Well, this is what I loved,
was leaving my house and going
to my Uncle Owen's house.
And he had "The Boston
Herald," and in there,
there was all these
other cartoons
that were not in "The Globe."
So that's where I saw
Morrie Turner Wee --
>> Warren Bernard:
I was going to --
>> Keith Knight: -- yeah, and
then -- I forget this one,
who was -- I think the -- it
was called "Loose" or something.
It was just a family
that lived in squalor.
There was, like, trash all
over the place [laughter].
Like, I -- is it Loose
Millan [assumed spelling]?
It was just, like, trash
everywhere, garbage, and, like,
fish bones and everything.
I was just really
fascinated by that, but also,
my Uncle Owen was very
-- he was an artist,
and he used to point to me --
there was one panel where --
it was a couple that were
always fighting all the time.
And the way it was drawn is
their heads would always float
just above their bodies,
like they weren't connected.
And he would always
point that out.
Like, see how the
head just floats?
And so, those little things,
and learning the language --
because the first language
I think we all learn is the
language of cartooning.
Who teaches you how
to read a comic strip?
No one does, right?
We just, like, sort of learn
that it's left to right,
and then, you know, this is a
word balloon, and then this one
with the circles is
a thought bubble.
And, you know, if there's lines,
that means they're shaking.
Like, you learn that
-- I think it's, like,
the first language we all learn,
and so, it's really a neat thing
to sort of continually pick up.
That's how you pick
up the skills,
is you see something
you've never seen before.
Like, oh, I like the way they
do that, and you incorporate it.
And that's how I -- to this
day, I see cartoons and go,
I'm going to do it like that.
I want to do it like that.
You know, I still
learn what to do
and what not to do
with cartoons.
But, you know, really,
the newspaper cartoons --
Jules Feiffer on Sundays,
seeing Feiffer's stuff,
the fact that he didn't
use panels -- I love that.
I love that.
Chuck Jones' Warner Bros.
cartoons -- that's
a huge influence.
>> Warren Bernard: Daffy Duck?
>> Keith Knight:
Yeah, Daffy Duck.
>> Warren Bernard: Or
Bugs Bunny, or both?
>> Keith Knight: I am a
Daffy Duck person [laughter],
because Daffy Duck can play
both the protagonist --
he can play the good
guy and the bad guy.
Like, he's very versatile,
although I really
like it the few times -- and
I don't like early Bugs Bunny.
I'm trying to explain that
-- my son is watching.
Early Bugs Bunny to -- because
early Bugs Bunny was very
irritating, and he wanted to --
and to get, you know,
caught, or blasted.
But it's the later,
cross-dressing Bugs
Bunny [laughter] --
you want to be the cool
cross-dressing Bugs
Bunny [laughter].
>> Warren Bernard: The role
that was -- he was put upon --
you know, when you watch
those Bugs Bunny cartoons,
he wasn't the one
making the first move.
Someone else came
along and annoyed him.
>> Keith Knight: That's true.
That's true, but
there were a couple
where he's a little slightly
-- the Robert McKimson ones,
where -- one time, they
were posting up the bounties
for different animals, and I
think rabbits got two cents.
And he got really mad,
and he came to Washington.
And -- until they -- the game
warden or something, and said,
"How come bunnies
are only two cents?"
And he said, "There's -- they're
really harmless bunnies."
And he's like, "I'll show you."
And then he goes, and
he saws off Florida
and lets it float
out [laughter].
That's, you know -- that's
the Bugs Bunny you want to be.
But yeah, just -- you
know, just running
at the -- but I love that.
And I'll tell you this.
Those folks who grew
up on Warner Bros.
cartoons have a literacy that
generations after don't have,
and I would say the only thing
that equates -- and here's why.
Because Chuck Jones could
take, you know, like --
the opera, and then put --
you know, "Kill the
wabbit, kill the wabbit."
And you -- you're
learning something,
but you don't realize
you're learning something.
And that's what I loved
about those cartoons,
and it's the same thing.
I will say this.
Hip-hop does the same thing.
The golden age of hip-hop -- if
you listen to all the samples,
all the different samples that
-- the music they turn you onto,
and the turn of phrases
is very similar.
So I am so lucky to have
come up when Warner Bros.
cartoons were big
and hip-hop was big,
because that is what really
fuels the idea of all this stuff
that I put into my comics.
You may not get all the
references, but, like, later on,
you might be like, oh, that's
what he was talking about.
That's what I love
about any piece of art,
is when you're figuring out
-- oh, that's what that means.
That's what -- you know,
getting that stuff.
And I just want to say how
proud I am of my son, Julian,
who made this little print
of Rosa Louise Parks.
I didn't Rosa Parks's
middle name was Louise --
Louis, I'm sorry, Louis.
Is this true, Julian?
Is this Rosa Parks' middle name?
>> [Laughter]
I think it is, though.
>> Keith Knight:
Okay, it is now.
It is now.
So I'm very proud of that.
But yeah, I mean -- so I
always say I was raised
on a steady diet of Star
Wars, racism, and Warner Bros.
cartoons [laughter].
But the bigger thing
is, like, you know --
is hip-hop, and just all
the different influences
of just the media, and, you
know, what I grew up on I try
to channel into my work.
>> Warren Bernard: And so,
when did you start putting pen,
or pencil, or crayon
to paper, and --
>> Keith Knight: I think we all
do it when we're little kids,
and we're always encouraged
until you get to school.
And then -- I was always
continually encouraged,
but I think when
someone starts saying,
"Oh, look at this," and
they're not doing it to yours,
you get a little discouraged,
because they're always putting
up somebody else's stuff.
But I was always encouraged
to do it until I got
into the upper grades.
And then, I -- my
art teacher was --
were trying to discourage
me from doing it,
which is really weird,
but they said,
"You should get into,
like, medical stuff."
They didn't take
comics seriously at all.
>> Warren Bernard: And the
fact that they didn't --
a lot of them still don't.
>> Keith Knight: Yeah.
And people -- the people
that did encourage me were
my English professors.
They were the ones who
encouraged me to do it.
I had a great high school
teacher who allowed me,
instead of doing a
regular book report --
we read the book "Animal Farm,"
and I did a comic book
report on "Animal Farm."
He allowed me to
do a comic report.
So I did a comic
parody of "Animal Farm."
So I don't know if you're
familiar with "Animal Farm,"
but George Orwell -- farm
animals take over a farm,
kick out all the humans.
They have four legs,
and they make up laws.
"Four legs good, two legs bad."
So I had my -- me and my friends
take over the high school,
kick out all the
adults, and we said,
"Under 18 good, over 18 bad."
And I did parodies
of them all --
like, caricatures of my high
school teachers, and also,
making fun of all
these kids in class.
And my teacher was so
excited that he kept it
in the teacher's lounge to
show the teachers [laughter].
And I thought it was going to
-- I thought everyone was going
to get me, but everyone
was just happy
that they were in it [laughter].
I was just -- you
know, I was like, wow.
Like, if I could do this for
a living, make fun of people
for a living, and not get
beat up, like, that was --
like, that was going
to be my thing.
And he wrote A-plus-plus.
You captured the essence
of "Animal Farm" perfectly,
but more importantly, you
should be given a syndicated
comic strip.
So that the first time I heard
"syndicated comic strip,"
and so, it got me, like,
looking into syndicates,
and all that kind of stuff.
But the other big change I had
was with a teacher who was --
it wasn't until I was a
junior in college, and then --
>> Warren Bernard:
Where'd you go to college,
and what was your
major in college?
>> Keith Knight: Salem State
College -- now, it's university.
>> Warren Bernard: No,
don't you have some kind
of special address
that you're doing now?
Tell everybody about that.
>> Keith Knight:
I just got invited
by Salem State University to do
their 2020 commencement in May,
so I'm returning -- every
time I say it, I go like this.
I don't know what I'm going
to say, but it's going
to be like this [laughter].
I told you all.
No, I -- no.
No, but I was in graphic design.
There were no cartooning
classes, and, like,
it was just a regular
state school, and -- but --
>> Warren Bernard: It would've
been the mid-'80s then.
>> Keith Knight: --
the mid-'80s, and they
graduated two award-winning
syndicated cartoonists.
Mark Parisi of Off The
Mark is from there, too.
So people go there thinking
that there's some fancy
cartoon program there,
and there's nothing there.
So they always give
them my number,
and then people say,
"What did you take?"
Well, I took graphic
design, because that's all --
and my parents starting
worrying at this time
that I was serious
about cartooning.
>> Warren Bernard: Well,
I was going to ask you your
parents' response to all this.
>> Keith Knight:
So they started --
you know, there's no money in
cartooning, and they were right.
They were right, but it
was too late by this time.
So I was going hard-core,
and -- so I did --
my local newspaper
made the school --
the campus newspaper --
>> Warren Bernard: Oh, so you
worked on the campus newspaper?
>> Keith Knight: -- yeah.
>> Warren Bernard: Okay.
>> Keith Knight: And, you know,
I did posters for local bands,
and events, and stuff like
that, but I had a teacher --
I had my first black
teacher in college.
And there was a study that
came out, like, last year
or two years ago that
black students have a 30 --
their chance of going to
college goes up 30 to 35%
when they have one black teacher
in the first 12 years of school,
the first 12 years of school.
And so, I can't tell
you how important it was
to have this black teacher,
because he was an American
literature teacher --
American literature teacher, and
he assigned us Richard Wright,
James Baldwin, Maya
Angelou -- who else?
Ralph --
>> Warren Bernard: Ralph?
>> Keith Knight: -- Ellison,
yeah, and when someone said,
"Why are you giving
us all black writers?"
He said, "I"m giving you
all American writers."
And so, when I heard
that, my head exploded.
>> Warren Bernard:
Right, sure, it's --
>> Keith Knight: When we
learn American writers,
you think of Mark
Twain, and he was just --
he was basically using -- he
was working within the system
to subvert the system.
And so, I thought that was
just amazing, and, like,
it was just -- I
loved that class,
and he gave me an A-minus,
even though I deserved
an A [laughter].
He was a great teacher,
and he really sparked --
it made me say, "Okay, when I do
this cartoon, I'm going to do it
from the perspective
of a black male,
and some of the stuff that, you
know, everyone's going to get,
some of the stuff only a
few people are going to get.
But, like, it's going
to be distinctly
from that perspective.
>> Warren Bernard: -- and
so, once you left college,
was that the point that you
went down to San Francisco?
Was there a delay, and then
once you got to San Francisco,
what did you do to
further your comics income?
>> Keith Knight: Well,
there was no delay.
It was -- I worked
in Faneuil Hall
in Boston drawing caricatures,
and it was, like, a great --
it was a great job,
because you sat --
you know, you just drew comics.
But you also heard everybody's
accent, and so you're like, oh,
my God, the Boston accent
is the worst [laughter].
That's why, you know,
if I have a few beers,
and the Sox are on,
that it comes back.
But, you know, I got rid of
the -- we had one artist,
Dale Stephanos, who's
this amazing illustrator,
and he would get
all the good jobs.
So those jobs where you'd have
to travel around the country --
and he went to San Francisco.
And then, when he came
back, he was like,
you got to check
out San Francisco.
He's like, it's,
like, indescribable.
They got a big -- it's
like Harvard Square,
but it's the whole city
[laughter], you know.
So I was like, all
right, I'm going.
And so, I worked really
hard, saved up the money
for the summer, and
then just jumped
in a car, drove out there.
And I thought I was going
to be there for five years,
and stayed there for 16, and
met my lovely wife, and we --
basically, that is really
the birthplace of sort
of underground cartooning
in the States.
>> Warren Bernard: Right,
that's where Robert Crumb
started selling Zap out of a --
>> Keith Knight: Yeah.
>> Warren Bernard:
-- town story.
>> Keith Knight: Yeah,
yeah, and so literally,
I would be there doing
my 'zines, and I would --
>> Warren Bernard: Was
that the mini-comics?
>> Keith Knight: -- yeah, the
mini-comics, and go to FedEx --
well, back in the day, it was
called Kinko's, and it's funny,
because we were just
talking about this today.
Because I used to go there,
and there used to be, like,
you know, these crazy, like,
50-year-old guys, like,
running off their
manifestos, and, like,
stapling them together.
And then, you know, I realized
today, I am that guy [laughter].
I am the guy that someone
looks and says, like,
what's that guy [laughter] --
so, you know, I'm that guy.
So I used to put the 'zines
together, and there were a lot
of great places to sell them in.
But I used to wear a
-- I used to wear a --
and sell them in
Golden Gate Park.
I would sell them at the
San Francisco Book Fair.
I remember when I went
with my cousin to New York,
and they had a Subway
sandwich board [laughter].
And people got -- people either
thought we were undercover
police officers, or just -- I
don't know what they thought.
But we had a -- I had a --
I always have a really
fun, fun time.
>> Warren Bernard: And you did,
like, what, like, 10 of those?
>> Keith Knight:
I think I did 10.
Yeah, I think 10 of those,
but, I mean, seriously, like,
just doing 'zines, I ended up --
there was a German filmmaker --
I have all these different
connections to Germany.
I'm not just married
to a German,
but this German filmmaker
wrote to me and said, "Hey,
can I develop your
cartoon into a short film?"
I said, "Yeah, sure, just spell
my name right in the credits."
You know, I didn't think it was
a real thing, but he did this.
He created this short
film about me.
It's Karton -- Jetzt Kommit Ein
Karton, and it won some award
in some -- Fest, and it was
supposed to show at The Castro
for the Berlin -- Film Festival,
but there was something
that prevented it
from showing there.
But I'm going to try to
get the rights to it,
to put it on a TV,
in the TV show.
So, yeah, there were all
these Easter eggs in the show
that are going to be in --
that people who know me from
my childhood would be like, oh,
my God, I can't believe
he did that.
>> Warren Bernard: Well,
before we get to the TV show --
so you're doing the 'zines.
>> Keith Knight: Yeah.
>> Warren Bernard: How did you
get into the all-weekly world.
>> Keith Knight: The all-week
-- yeah, so I remember it ran,
like, in the local color.
They -- the very first
strip that was ever run
in the local newspaper was --
it was a review of a
Beastie Boys show I did,
and it was the Beastie Boys.
And then, they had two
unknown bands opening for them,
and one was -- I
forget the first one,
but the other one was a
very unknown band called
Cypress Hill.
This is just when
they were starting,
and I remember someone trying to
break into the club by climbing
through the window
of the bathroom.
And, like, you know, I had
written about that, like --
and I had ripped on the
bouncers, and made fun of them,
and everything, and
people loved it.
People went nuts, and so,
then I got an inquiry from
"The SF Weekly" about it.
But then, they -- something
happened where they weren't
in contact with me for a
long time, and then the guy
who called me became the editor.
And here's what I did, is I
taped a $10 bill to a letter
with my cartoons in it,
and I sent it to him.
I said, "Don't spend it all in
one place [laughter]," and I got
in the next week [laughter].
So I'm telling you,
like, bribery does work.
[ Laughter ]
>> Warren Bernard: No, you
see -- saying, because --
other people got in
the all-weekly world,
and unlike going through a
syndicate, you actually had
to do all the hustling yourself.
You had to contact
the papers, and --
so tell us about that process.
>> Keith Knight: Yeah,
well, this is why,
like, this is our moment.
As the republic crumbled,
it's the ones
that have always
struggled that are --
when you're an Indie cartoonist,
and you're everything.
You're the accountant.
You're the businessperson.
You're the creator.
You're the press person.
You do all the hype stuff
to -- you do everything.
So you're completely
prepared for it.
So yeah, we have to send
out portfolios to everybody,
and then follow up,
and then, like,
you have to invoice people,
which [laughter] my family
knows I'm very slow at that.
And just -- you do
all that -- stuff.
So when newspapers
started to crumble,
I went to an editorial
cartoonist convention,
hoping to, like,
glean some knowledge
from all these elder statesmen.
And they were coming to me,
because they're like, hey,
I've been working at
this place for 30 years.
They just let me go.
I don't know how
to do PhotoShop.
I don't know how to do -- like,
how do you do what you do?
And so, I was just
like, oh, my God.
If they're coming to
me, then we're doomed.
We're all doomed [laughter].
So it was just really
surprising.
So -- and all --
everybody who has --
who struggled in the all-weekly
market are somehow making it
work now, because
they've figured it out,
you know, somehow, some way.
And it's ways, like,
through Patreon,
which is this great
subscription service for people.
If you want to subscribe to my
work, you can go through that.
Or they'll do -- you know,
I do college slideshows.
I go on the road and do that.
They get TV shows, you
know, somehow, some way.
No, but there's all
these different ways
that people have somehow
been able to make it work,
and continue to create
what they create.
And so, very, very fortunate --
and I'll just say it quickly.
I grew my -- you know, the
alternative weekly market,
then it started to
collapse and crumble.
>> Warren Bernard: Craig's
List came in, and --
>> Keith Knight: Craig's --
yeah, and it's not what they --
the guy who started
Craig's List, I used to see
at the Office Depot where
I used to make copies,
and we used to see each
other all the time.
So I -- if I took
him out right there,
then none of [laughter] --
I don't encourage violence.
>> Warren Bernard: So now,
did (Th)ink come to be,
and K Chronicles, and the
differences between those two --
>> Keith Knight: So the
K Chronicles was the
autobiographical
strip that I started.
I first did an autobiographical
strip when I was in junior high
about a food fight, and
I didn't know anybody
who could write the story.
And so, I decided to
set the record straight,
and do this comic strip.
And that was the very first one,
and it developed
into a regular strip.
And that was a daily size
back in the day, and then,
when I got to San Francisco
and saw alternative comics,
and how big they were,
I made it the size
of Matt Groenig's Life in Hell.
So that's how it got
the nine-panel size.
So I was doing that, doing
well, and then I was approached
by alphacom.com [assumed
spelling]
to do another --
a strip for them.
They wanted an autobiographical
strip, and I was like,
I'm not going to
do the same thing.
So I said I wanted to take --
instead of autobiographical,
I wanted to take
it from the news.
Instead of multi-panel, I want
to do it as a single-panel.
And so, I went in there.
I remember drawing my first
(Th)ink strip on a bar napkin,
and it was Denny's -- it was a
Denny's strip, a Denny's sign
that says, "Serving blacks
since 1997 [laughter]."
And then I remember --
yeah, they -- I got the gig.
This is funny.
I still have that little
bar napkin, so, you know,
if you'd like to buy
it, you can [laughter].
But it was -- what
I didn't realize is,
if you take (Th)ink --
all you have to do --
"think" is knight spelled
backwards without the G,
and I didn't realize that
until 15 years later.
I was just staring at
it, and I was like, wow,
it's just such a weird thing,
because I just never --
I never realized that until
you stare at the blank page --
>> Warren Bernard: Right, right.
>> Keith Knight: -- on top.
But so, Th(ink) came
about in about 1999,
and that just took off.
And --
>> Warren Bernard: Yeah,
because I remember you coming
to SPX first time -- I've
got one book from SPX 1998.
When you did start coming
to these alternative
comics festivals and things?
>> Keith Knight: Oh, I've always
gone -- yeah, I went to --
first went to Comic Con in San
Diego in '93, but, you know,
whenever there were
new alt comic con --
>> Warren Bernard:
And things like --
>> Keith Knight: -- yeah, I was
always going from the beginning,
and yeah, I just --
I am a people person.
I -- being a cartoonist is
probably the worst thing for me,
because I don't like sitting
by myself, but I do okay
when I'm drawing things.
You know, I --
>> Warren Bernard: -- you
can go out to a coffee shop.
>> Keith Knight: -- I
go to a coffee shop.
I will go to -- I
will sit in a lobby.
I will sit -- any sort
of stimulation, like --
I just can't sit, like --
I need something going on.
So -- although it's like --
it's probably like,
how can you do this?
But I saw this article
once that said, like,
like even a little bit of
cafe noise is actually better
for your mind to concentrate.
>> Warren Bernard:
And so, what's --
to get technical for
a minute, okay --
so you're still ink on
paper, and so, you know,
what kind of paper do you like?
What kind of pen nibs,
for all the pen nib geeks
out there, and --
>> Keith Knight: Yeah.
I mean, Jasper, can you grab
my equipment of the bag there?
You can -- so I do -- I use
Micron pigments, markers,
but I think I actually found an
alternative, because Microns --
I think their quality's
fallen off a little bit.
>> Warren Bernard:
-- and this happens.
I've heard other creators
talk about how supplies
that they use, whether it's
ink, or pens, what have you,
just has fallen off in quality.
>> Keith Knight: Yeah, yeah.
So this -- you know, you see
these Micron pigments all
over the place, but -- in places
like Michael's and
stuff like that.
So I've just found these
Prisma colors that are similar,
and these are far more inky.
They're far -- I
think higher-quality,
at least for now.
When they take off, then
they'll get bad, and then --
but also, I used to do these
Rub-a-dub laundry markers
that are made by Sharpie,
but they're white
instead of this gray.
But they don't make
them anymore.
They -- I don't know
what happened,
but we used to use them all
the time for our caricatures.
So that's how I got
used to them.
So now, I use Sharpies,
which I don't really want
to use, but I don't know.
It's just, like, what can I say?
>> Warren Bernard: And you
do pencils first, then ink,
and then you scan in --
>> Keith Knight: Yeah.
Jasper, you want to grab a
-- the -- one of my pads?
I think there's a pad in there.
So yeah, I still do it
on -- yeah, there it is.
This is a Bristol -- you know,
I still use Strathmore Bristol,
and let's see what's
in here right now.
Oh, look, here's one of
the latest K Chronicles.
So this is the size I do it,
and I don't do the K Chronicles
anymore in nine panels,
just because the
Sharpies are so thick.
And I'm trying to do it
on this smaller paper.
I'm trying to save
trees, in all honesty.
I'm trying to save trees, but
this is the size I do it in,
and then, it fits on my
scanner, and get that done.
(Th)ink obviously is smaller,
so it's a little easier.
I do have some artwork
here from the show,
but I can't show you it, because
then it would give away part
of the stuff.
>> Warren Bernard: Well, and
actually, that's a good lead-in.
So you did Knight Life,
and that has syndicated
in "The Boston Post."
>> Keith Knight: Okay, so
why did I do The Knight Life?
And this is probably what
most people are familiar
with -- familiar with.
Sorry. For years and years,
syndicates have bugged me
to do a daily strip, and I
would say, "No, I'm in a band.
I'm going to -- yeah.
You know, I'm making
no money in the band,
so why would I make no
money doing a daily?"
[Laughter] So finally, the --
we saw the writing on the wall.
We were in San Francisco,
and, like --
like, I didn't want to be --
we saw that San Francisco
was changing, and I --
>> Warren Bernard: It's
a really different place.
>> Keith Knight: --
oh, it totally is,
and I didn't want to be stuck.
We were in a great
rent-controlled apartment.
We had, like, a three-bedroom.
It was, like, 1500, I
think, whatever it was.
We were sitting pretty, but I
didn't want to be stuck there,
and I didn't want to be,
like, bitter San Francisco --
man, this used to be
cool back in the day,
you know, that type of thing.
So we took off for L.A.,
much to everyone's --
>> Warren Bernard: Right.
>> Keith Knight: -- you
know, rent was horrifying.
Culver City, yeah.
>> Warren Bernard: Culver City.
>> Keith Knight: Culver City.
And we got to L.A., and we
didn't have a car, did we?
You had your stick shift, right?
But I can't drive a stick
shift, so I didn't have a car
for three years down there,
which is -- you can't do it.
You can't do it.
You can actually
do it now better,
because there's a
subway there now.
But we were down there
because I wanted to try
to develop something for
television, and we had Jasper.
And I realized I have
to make some money,
so I have to go for it.
So we got -- I lost a daily
strip in the worst year of --
in newspaper history,
which is 2008.
That's when the bottom fell
out, and, like, I thought I was
in all these papers, and then I
was not in any of these papers
that -- it was -- so 11 years, I
had nine deadlines, and it was,
you know -- it was great
working in the format
of it, the challenge of it.
Like, trying to work in a
small space, and I loved sort
of creating the new
characters for it, doing all --
like, I loved the daily format,
but it is a grind that --
you know, back in the
day, you could get
into automatically
-- papers, almost.
>> Warren Bernard:
Right, and these days,
the syndicates don't
give you the support
that they used to give you.
>> Keith Knight:
They can't afford it,
because there aren't
that many newspapers.
And so, they can't afford all
these salespeople going all
over the place.
And literally, part of the
deal is, newspapers are
so old-fashioned that
they literally --
like, there were papers
that wouldn't run the strip
because there was a
mixed-race couple in the strip.
Like, there is --
>> Warren Bernard: And here
we're in the 21st century.
>> Keith Knight: -- yeah.
>> Warren Bernard: -- okay.
>> Keith Knight:
So, like, it's --
you know, it's hardly
newspapers' fault
that newspapers are --
because there's something
that newspapers do that the
internet can't do, which is --
I think with the
internet, you're --
you know, you get distracted
by stuff, and you follow --
you know, you follow the little
chick in bikini in the corner.
But with the newspaper,
you look at everything.
So when you turn a page,
you have an opportunity
to really do something really
neat with, like, the layout
and design, but also,
people read all the whole --
like, they look at
everything in there.
And I just think that you
could design a paper --
and McSweeney's did a version
of what they thought would be a
good newspaper, and it was full
of comics, and color, and
all this different stuff.
And that's the way newspapers
should try to move forward, but,
you know, with the
way our laws are,
you just basically have these
corporations buying these
papers, and not really caring
about them, firing everybody,
and just putting in the
same content everywhere.
So it's a lost cause.
I think comics are one of the
few things that are inexpensive
that you can put in
there that are unique,
that will make people --
bring people to the paper.
>> Warren Bernard: And that used
to be not only the raison d'etre
for comic strips
way back in the day,
when they had the
comic strip wars,
but also the weekly papers
-- they wanted the comics,
and they would put them in
the classified sections.
>> Keith Knight: Yeah.
>> Warren Bernard: Be sure that
people want their classifieds
to go ahead and read them, so --
>> Keith Knight: And -- yeah,
and that's the first thing
that they cut, are the cartoons.
And, like, literally they
still pay $25 per week,
like, cartoons in a paper.
It's -- they pay the same
as they paid two decades
ago, if you're lucky.
So it's insane.
It's insane, being
in cartoons today.
I mean, thank goodness
for the internet.
Like, that is the way to
go, because all you need
to do is cultivate
your group of people,
and they will support you.
If they like your work,
they will support you.
>> Warren Bernard: So we're
sort of running short of time,
so here's the question.
Do you want to do some of the
presentation, or do you want
to take some questions?
>> Keith Knight: Oh, well,
let me take questions
and a presentation
at the same time.
And speaking of support -- boys,
this is your time [laughter].
They wouldn't allow me to sell
any books, or prints or anything
in there unless I
went through the --
it was a nightmare
trying to set it up.
So I'm going to have my sons
pass out these cards to you.
So if you guys are interested
in my books, or my prints,
or bringing me to
your school, to --
I do this slideshow on
racial illiteracy, and --
which I think is the
country's biggest problem,
and it uses humor,
and storytelling,
but it's a very serious topic.
But I do it all over the place.
I just did VCU in Richmond.
>> Warren Bernard: And you've
been doing this for a while,
in terms of having this -- your
slideshow, going into colleges
and universities and
talking about race.
What are some of the
experiences you've had?
>> Keith Knight: Oh,
it's been amazing.
Again, I am a person who
likes to go up, and sit,
and talk with people,
and present this stuff.
And so, I figured if
no one under 50's going
to read my comics in the paper,
I'm going to bring
it to them in person.
So I've been doing all these
colleges all over the country,
and I've done overseas, too.
I've done a bunch of colleges
in Germany, and St. Vincent --
I can't remember where it was.
But anyway, it's been
amazing, and people --
I mean, it's similar
stories all over the place.
There's just -- we
continue to do --
some of the things are
heartbreaking, where, you know,
kids are going to school
for the first time,
and they're just telling
me their experiences about,
you know, like, really --
their experiences with racism
for the first time, you know,
people in blackface, and,
you know, doing all
this bizarre stuff.
And I remember there were
these two older women sitting
in the middle of one
I did in Chicago.
They came up to me and said,
"You know, when we were students
in the 70s we sat in those
same seats and listened
to the exact same
presentation, you know, like --
you know, 50 years
later, or 40 years later.
Because we learned nothing
about" -- you know, people say,
oh, Black History Month.
We learn nothing
about black history
in this country, nothing.
We learn the same four or
five feel-good stories,
and the majority of the
history of black people
in this country is a harsh,
horrible history of a nation
that has been built on the
backs of enslaved people.
And what I do in my slideshows
is really explain to people --
what could you build if you
had 250 years of free labor?
What sort of business
could you build?
What sort of nation
could you build?
And the fact that
we take the time --
we take about a paragraph
of a history book and talk
about it -- is absurd.
We know that the generation --
the descendants of people
that were in the Holocaust,
survivors of the Holocaust, have
higher degrees of depression
and of suicide, because they
carry that trauma genetically.
So what do you think is carried
within the descendants of people
who were enslaved for 250 years,
and then 100 years of Jim Crow?
And how could you possibly
imagine that 50 years
of affirmative action, you know,
eight years of a black president
is going to wipe out 300,
400 years of oppression?
Like, we know that when
you break something --
it's a lot quicker
to break something
than it is to fix something.
And we don't -- I use my
colleagues, and my storytelling,
and my statistics
and facts to explain
that if we just examine the
history, everything that's going
on right now with who's in
the White House right now,
with what's going on with
voter suppression right now,
police brutality, the
disparity between wealth
in white families
and black families.
All that would be explained if
we just examined the history.
>> Warren Bernard: And, you
know, down in Texas, you know,
they have -- their schoolbooks
that they have down there,
they go ahead, and they
give it about that much.
You know, different states have
different ways of doing that,
but even the high school
yearbooks in some states are --
they purposely downgrade it.
>> Keith Knight: Oh, believe
me, after moving to the south,
and hearing some
of the stories --
>> Warren Bernard:
Wanted to move --
>> Keith Knight: -- listen,
no, I'm going to defend that.
I've learned more about
the black experience moving
to the south in five years
than I've ever learned growing
up in Massachusetts
or in California.
Because what happens is --
and this happens all
over the country.
We are fed what I call
pop music history.
Christopher Columbus is
pop music history, okay?
Jackie Robinson being
the first black
to play professional
baseball, like,
in mainstream baseball
is pop music history.
Blacks and whites played
in the 1800s, you know.
That is a result -- they --
and whites kicked
blacks out of baseball
up until Jackie Robinson
got back in.
But Christopher Columbus,
in his own words,
does not deserve a
holiday named after him.
If you read the first 10
pages of Howard Zinn's
"A People's History
of the United States,"
which gives you the U.S.
history from the perspective
of enslaved people, indigenous
people, Mexican, Chinese --
in his own words,
he will explain
to you why he does
not deserve a holiday.
That's the pop music history,
and when I say pop music --
you know how you hear -- you
know Taylor Swift's music,
even though you don't
seek it out?
It's just forced
upon you [laughter].
>> Warren Bernard: Yeah.
>> Keith Knight: Okay.
Now, if you want to
hear the good music,
you do what I say is called
digging in the crates.
That's a hip-hop term.
You go dig in the crates.
You search.
You go down and to
the left of the dial.
You listen to -- you
know, you go to the clubs.
You find out the obscurities.
You need to find -- dig for the
real history in this country.
It's not going to be fed you.
The thing that's going to
be fed you is the stuff
that is not right
[laughter], is myth,
but the real stuff, if you dig,
it's the ugly history,
but it's a history --
for me, when I find out what
went on in, like, Stagville,
one of the biggest
plantations in -- in the south.
When I learn that the
folks there were able
to create the largest
agricultural building
in the south at that time
with no nails, with no plans,
just create it, from the skills
that they taught themselves,
that -- there's a pride there
that I didn't have before that,
like, just makes you -- just
makes you say, "Oh, my God.
Like, we are descended
from the most powerful" --
the people that survived going
through the Middle Passage,
because a lot of
people died then.
The people that made it
there were the strongest,
most resilient people, and
we are descendants of them.
And so, once you put it that
way, I think people understand,
like, seriously,
like, we -- we --
this was built by us, you know.
And so, the people
that this dimension --
like, oh, slavery
was a long time ago.
So I always get a shock when I
say this, but when people say,
"Oh, that was a long time ago.
Get over it, it was a
long time ago," I say,
"Jesus was a long
time ago [laughter].
No one getting over
that [laughter]."
[ Applause ]
I think just people
to understand, like --
it's just stuff needs to be
worded in a different way.
You know, Thomas Jefferson --
his -- what did he call her?
His mistress --
>> Warren Bernard: Sally.
>> Keith Knight: -- yeah.
This was not a mistress.
This was a person
that he owned, okay,
that wasn't considered a human
being, and when people say,
like, Barack Obama becoming
president is a black
accomplishment, to me, that's
a white accomplishment.
Because there have been
plenty of black people
that were capable of being
president of the United States.
This was the first time
white people were able
to bring themselves to
vote for a black person.
And so, it's a white
accomplishment,
and I need people to understand
that the success of black people
in this country is a
success for all Americans.
And so, it's in everyone's
best interests.
One of the things -- we
home-school our kids,
and we live in a place where
they tax a lot higher --
the property taxes
are a lot higher
because of the school system.
>> Warren Bernard:
And so, is that --
>> Keith Knight:
Fancy-schmancy school system.
People always say,
"Why do you live there,
and why do you home-school
when you pay those taxes?
Like, I wouldn't live there."
And it's just like, why
wouldn't I want my neighbors
to be better educated?
Why wouldn't I want
my taxes to go
to a better educational system?
Like, I would rather them
be smart and successful.
Then they won't come and
rob me, you know [laughter].
It's just like -- like, this
idea that, like, I have mine,
and I don't want to pay for --
everyone else needs to get --
like, it's just so silly.
It's so silly.
>> Warren Bernard: -- it
is, and there's a lack
of concept of the common good.
>> Keith Knight: Common
good, and empathy.
>> Warren Bernard: Yes.
>> Keith Knight: And empathy
in a way that, like --
someone else is -- that person
outside who's homeless is
our problem.
It's not their problem.
It's not a "oh, bring yourself
up by your bootstraps" type
of thing, because black
people didn't -- don't --
didn't have bootstraps
in this country.
You can't, like, bring yourself
up by your bootstraps
if you don't have it.
I talk about the --
sort of the wealth,
and how the wealth is built,
with all the low-cost mortgages
that were given to this country.
They weren't given
to black people.
So whites were able
to build wealth
by buying their first
house, like,
in the '30s, up until the '60s.
Black people didn't get that.
>> Warren Bernard:
Well, the red-lining.
>> Keith Knight: Red-lining --
>> Warren Bernard: Yeah.
>> Keith Knight: -- that's
how ghettos were formed.
People need to know that.
Once they know that,
they realize --
oh, okay, like, it's
just -- it's not --
there's a system in place,
and then, when people --
>> Warren Bernard: You know,
I used to build houses.
>> Keith Knight: -- okay.
>> Warren Bernard: And so, one
of the houses that I bought,
they gave me the covenants to
the house from the early 1900s,
and it said I was not allowed
to sell that house to anybody
in the negroid or Semitic races.
>> Keith Knight: Yeah.
>> Warren Bernard:
They're unenforceable,
but that was the document.
>> Keith Knight: But yeah --
I mean, they're unenforceable,
but they are enforced.
I mean, obviously,
like, when people say,
"Oh, we don't have quotas.
You know, police
don't have quotas.
They don't have this.
They don't have that."
It's all -- and people
say, "Well, what if the --
why does he have to bring
about race for everything?"
I didn't make race
about everything.
White people made
race about everything.
And, like, literally every
aspect of our lives is affected
by that, from the restaurant you
go in -- if you go to the back,
to the front, it gets
darker as it goes back.
Like, who only works
in the back is darker.
The one who works in
the front is lighter.
Like, in every aspect, when
a person goes to get a car,
black people are charged
an average of $700 more
for any car, like, and
getting a loan, and all --
like, every aspect
of everything.
I can give you -- you could
say any innocuous thing,
and I will tell you -- I'm going
to spoil -- I'm going to spoil,
like, Antiques Roadshow
for you [laughter].
Antiques Roadshow --
you watch that on PBS.
You try to find somebody black
giving -- coming up there going,
oh, my uncle -- my
great-uncle went to China
and brought this
jade thing back.
Black people couldn't
own a thing before 1960.
I'm just joking about that, but
literally, is a celebration of,
like, white cultural plunder.
Like, it's people going, oh,
we got this from the
Sioux, blah, blah, blah.
You know, and it's
just like, okay, like,
how many people did you wipe --
did you have to wipe
out for that?
You know, just, like,
it's total celebration
of exploitation, and so --
>> Warren Bernard: All
right, why don't we stop
and take some questions?
>> Keith Knight: Sorry.
>> Warren Bernard:
Okay, no, no --
>> Keith Knight: You got
me ranting [laughter].
>> Warren Bernard: -- no, no,
we were here to listen to you.
>> Keith Knight: All right.
So we didn't even look
at any comics, right?
>> Warren Bernard: No, we
didn't look at any comics.
>> Keith Knight: Okay.
Would you like to look at comics
while we answer questions?
Well, why don't we do
that really quickly?
>> Warren Bernard: All right.
>> Keith Knight: Okay.
All right, so these are
-- you notice something?
>> Warren Bernard: Anybody
with questions, go ahead
and raise their hands so --
>> Keith Knight: So this
is one of my favorite ones,
which isn't even a driving.
The all lives matter,
but restrictions apply,
see skin color for details
-- it works as a sticker.
It doesn't work as
a shirt [laughter].
I tried doing it as a shirt,
and people don't look
long enough to get it.
So do it as a sticker.
Oh, did that happen to you?
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, so you just
keep that at home.
But, you know, here's the
thing about Black Lives Matter,
and I explain this
in my slideshow.
If I have a bumper sticker
on the back of my car
that says Save the Rainforest,
it does not mean screw the
other forests [laughter].
It means the rainforests
are being cut down,
and we have to do
something about that.
So that's how I explain
Black Lives Matter.
So it's not like being selfish.
It's -- we understand that all
lives matter, but, you know,
other people's lives
are getting shot
down by police all the time.
So --
>> Warren Bernard:
Alex, question?
>> Keith Knight: -- oh, yeah.
>> Hello, Mr. Knight.
I've loved your work for years.
I'm so excited to meet you.
I'm just wondering what we
should expect aesthetically
from your new show,
because I'm imagining, like,
a "Who Framed Roger
Rabbit" situation.
>> Keith Knight: Oh, no,
no, no, no [laughter].
No.
>> Warren Bernard: I can
go forward to see them,
because we have some
pictures on here.
So I can --
>> Keith Knight: Oh, some
pictures of the show?
>> Warren Bernard: Yeah.
Yeah, because you sent them
and demanded they be put in.
>> Keith Knight: So that's --
that's me in a recreation of
my San Francisco apartment,
which is very exciting.
We're shooting it
up in Vancouver.
>> Warren Bernard: And you're
leaving right after this.
>> Keith Knight: Yeah,
I'm literally flying back
to the set right after this,
and on the other side is
our production office.
And they made it all
fancy, but, like,
I'm going to steal those
framed cartoons [laughter]
when all is said and done.
>> Warren Bernard: And it's Maya
Angelou and Hill Scott -- right?
>> Keith Knight: Yeah, yeah,
yeah, and so, what to expect --
whereas -- everything
is something
from the K Chronicles, right?
So there's the fam on set,
and there's some of the stars.
It's Blake Anderson
from Workaholics,
Lamorne Morris from New Girl.
That's Rose McIver from
I, Zombie, Sasheer Zamata
from Saturday Night Live, and T.
Murph from T. Murph [laughter].
This is his first show,
so he's super excited.
So, anyway, everything's --
comes out from the K Chronicles.
So the K Chronicles --
The Knight Life is sort
of the kiddie version
of the K Chronicles.
So it was in a mainstream
newspaper,
took out all the
blue stuff, you know.
The family's in it.
It's very family-friendly.
This is the opposite of that.
So it's going to be the adult
version of the K Chronicles.
So it's younger.
Like, it skews younger,
18 to 34 type stuff.
>> Warren Bernard: Does
that mean I can't watch it?
>> Keith Knight: You [laughter]
-- I will [laughter] --
-- I mean, I'm not going
to say how it tested,
but it tested well with a
very certain demographic
that you may not
fit in [laughter].
But -- and also,
like, it's very --
we don't use a lot of animation.
It's not like Roger --
it's mostly live-action.
So we use the animation,
and I can't really get
into what the animation is,
because that's part
of the fun of it.
But it -- I guarantee you,
you have not seen it before,
and I guarantee that some
of the parents will be like,
you can't watch this [laughter].
Let's just say that.
But it will be smart and funny.
>> Warren Bernard:
Okay, next question.
Go ahead.
>> One question I have,
how do you protect your
work from getting copied?
Because you --
>> Keith Knight: I can't.
I can't. Well, I mean,
obviously, you get your stuff --
there's a poor man's copyright.
You can send your stuff off
for it to be copyrighted
and all this stuff,
but here's the thing.
If someone's ripping off your
stuff in any public sort of way,
they will be called out for it,
and they will be blackballed.
I've had people -- you
know, there was one person
that I know consciously
ripped off my stuff, and he --
I've never heard from him again.
And -- not that I had him
taken out or anything.
It's just that [laughter] when
it came down to him trying
to create stuff, he couldn't --
he just never went
beyond a certain --
yeah, and then I'm catching
somebody else calling him
out on it.
And he was like, oh,
I didn't realize --
I've never seen your
-- but I don't know.
It's just like --
it usually gets
around if someone's
ripping somebody off,
and they usually
get blackballed.
But honestly, like, no one makes
enough money in this business
to be, like -- to -- it's
not even worth it, you know?
It's not even worth it.
So don't even worry about it.
Just create.
Don't worry about
anyone copying.
If you're doing stuff
that's good enough to copy,
then you're going to be okay.
You're going to be doing
all right, so just keep
on doing what you're doing.
>> Warren Bernard: Then we
have a question over here.
>> Keith Knight: Yes?
>> You talked about
your love of newspapers.
Do you subscribe to the
Raleigh or the Durham paper now?
>> Keith Knight: I
absolutely do not.
I just pick -- I read
them at the library.
I support my local library,
and, you know, I just --
I almost started to subscribe
to "The New York Times,"
and then they dropped
the cartoon
from their international
thing for just, like --
>> Warren Bernard: It
was a stupid reason.
>> Keith Knight: -- yeah,
it was a real silly reason,
and so, I -- you know --
>> Warren Bernard: One
controversy in public.
>> Keith Knight: --
yeah, yeah, yeah.
I -- you know, I try to support,
like, writers and cartoonists,
you know, people on Patreon.
I have a list of creators that
I support and things like that.
Yeah. I would support -- I
want to support politicians
that will get -- I
think there really needs
to be a recreation
-- we need to go back
when you couldn't
be a corporation
and own multiple,
like, media outlets.
You couldn't own a TV
station, and a newspaper --
>> Warren Bernard:
In the same market.
>> Keith Knight: -- yeah, yeah,
because it really is destroying
-- there are so many businesses
and jobs that are being
lost because of that,
because of all this
consolidation.
That's one of the -- I think one
of the reasons why we
are where we're at.
Honestly, just the media itself,
the fact that we're not calling
people out on stuff is -- I --
is one of the biggest problems
with what's going on today.
If someone is blatantly lying,
report that they're lying.
>> That's right.
>> Keith Knight: Just say,
"This person is lying right now,
and these are the reasons
why I think they're trying
to deceive the American people."
Like, that should be it.
It shouldn't be,
"Let's have this" --
you know, it's like it's --
you know, it's raining outside.
Okay, we're going
to have someone
who thinks it's raining outside.
We're going to have someone --
just to have someone
go against them,
who doesn't believe
it's raining outside.
Like, you shouldn't just
have two people arguing
about whether it's
raining outside.
You should open the window and
say, "It is raining outside."
[ Applause ]
Don't waste the time
debating it, you know.
>> Warren Bernard: Right.
So, any more questions?
>> One more question.
>> Keith Knight: Sorry, rant.
>> Warren Bernard: Yes?
>> I -- your topic around,
you know, black folks' legacy
in this country is -- you know,
kind of you're the
invisible people
with invisible accomplishments.
When you really know
the history,
it's quite contrary,
you know, to that.
>> Keith Knight: Oh, yeah.
>> As you look at, you know,
kind of internalizing that,
and then trying to project
how you deal with that issue
in your work, how is that
seen, especially as you try
to find mainstream outlets
to better tell, you know,
that's just -- we --
obviously, we don't want appear
as being ranting,
and being angry.
But the message somehow
needs to be told broadly.
I mean, we have a
Holocaust museum.
Every, you know, year, there's
a piece done on, you know,
that history, but I very rarely
see, you know, a piece around --
>> Keith Knight: Well, I mean,
obviously, we need to come to --
America needs to come
to terms with that.
And so, when I mean America,
white people need to come
to terms with the fact that
there's going to be some --
a lot of uncomfortable
conversations.
Like right now, the
discussion on, say, reparations,
or race in the country
only goes as far
as when white people
feel uncomfortable,
which is 5.2 seconds.
So that's as far as
it goes, and it needs
to go farther than that.
But as far as the way
it's been received for me,
I'm sitting here in the Library
of Congress doing an
interview [laughter].
Like, I am traveling around
the country doing slideshows.
I am going to have
a TV show on Hulu.
I think it's being received
really well, and maybe it's
because the way I do it is
through humor, and through,
like, you know -- it has to go
down with some medicine, like,
a little bit of sugar goes down.
But I think people want
to know this stuff.
I just think it's -- we were
just talking about it earlier.
There were really basic, simple
things that need to change
in this country, and
one of the things is,
when white people talk
about -- say black --
when they say "black people,"
they tend to whisper it,
because they've learned that
black means mad all the time.
So, seriously, most white people
go -- like [laughter] -- it's --
first, like, just
be able to say it.
Just say it.
Black is okay.
Black is beautiful.
Black -- just say it.
Like, and it is a --
it's a positive thing.
Once you get -- and don't
feel like you're afraid
to engage people in
these conversations,
because the reason why you
don't hear about this stuff --
because people always
say, "You know,
I work with all these
black folks," and --
well, they go, "I work
with all these black folks,
and [laughter] they
don't say anything --
they don't complain to me."
It's like, why?
Because they generally have
-- they are working for you,
and they are not in a
position to say anything bad.
Like -- so, like, these
conversations need to happen
in a -- I don't know if it's
a more comfortable space,
and we were talking about,
like, the safe space for folks
to talk about this stuff.
It's really hard.
This specialist -- I read
about this diversity specialist
that goes into workplaces,
and she says she goes
into workplaces, and even
when they are supposed to talk
about this stuff, people
of color won't talk
about it in their workplace.
Because -- and the people
that feel the most comfortable
are white people who are like,
you know, I don't understand
why I can't -- like --
because white people feel
comfortable everywhere,
everywhere.
Like, there's no place where
you can't feel comfortable.
And she says, at the end, people
of color will come up to her
and say, "I'd like to
talk, but once you're gone,
I'm still in this workplace.
And people are just
like, oh, like,
so I heard you complaining
at this thing."
Like, all the power is --
this country is a white state,
and it's -- I don't even
know how to explain that.
Even when people come up to me,
and they go, "I was on the bus,
and I was, like, the only
white person there [laughter]."
"I felt like -- what it's
like to be a black person."
No, you don't.
Like, you have to
grow up never reading
about your accomplishments
in this country.
You have to turn on the TV
and always see someone else
as the protagonist, as the hero.
You have to, like, have
all this stuff carried
on you before you ever
even feel for a moment
like you're a minority
in this country.
Because if you call 911 on
that bus, and the cops show up,
you're going to be the
safest person there.
So once people have that
idea, that sort of grasp,
then we can start to kind
of move forward, you know.
And it's going to take
a long time, but yeah,
I'll just say one
thing, one last thing.
I did a talk in my hometown,
Malden, Massachusetts,
because the whole city was
given the book "The Hate U Give"
as a book to read
in all the schools.
And I was just happy because
when I was growing up,
I got more books where the
protagonists were animals,
where the heroes were
animals, than people of color.
"Call of the Wild," you know,
"Animal Farm," "Babe" --
I got nothing where there were
people of color as heroes.
So I was just happy that they're
finally getting books like that,
where people of color
are the protagonists.
And I got an e-mail two weeks
later from the commissioner
of Malden's schools, and
he said, "I never thought
through that, never
thought through that thing."
And that's the thing.
Like, that's why you
need to have diversity
in your workplace, diversity
on your board, and diversity --
because it's not --
and it's not your --
it's not white people's fault.
Like, it's just -- it's
completely out of their --
but you got to understand, like,
your view is not
the be-all, end-all.
And so, in order to
make this country live
up to its ideals,
diversity counts.
When you say, "I don't see
color," that is an insult,
because that means you're
purposefully forcing yourself
not to see it.
Because you think it's
a detrimental thing.
You should be embracing
the idea of seeing color.
You should be embracing the
idea of seeing difference --
differences, and
different perspectives.
So embrace that, and I
mean that for everybody,
and across the board, not
just color, you know, race,
but gender, and age, and
through class -- like, class.
Like, people who have a lot of
money and don't have a lot of --
like, there are perspectives
that we all need to -
I'm just giving you a
certain perspective,
but we all have stories to tell.
And so, value those stories,
and immerse yourself
in different stories.
>> Warren Bernard: And
on that -- Keith Knight.
[ Applause ]