>> Juan Felipe Oliveria:
Hello, everyone.
This is Juan Felipe Oliveira.
I'm a member of the Literacy
Awards Advisory Board
at the Library of Congress.
And as a matter of fact, I spent
time at the Library of Congress
as a former Poet Laureate
of the United States.
And I'm very, extremely
happy and extremely inspired
by whom I'm going to
introduce right now,
which is Mr. Denzil
Mohammed, who's the director
of the Immigrant
Learning Center.
And there's more to it.
There is more to it.
And we're going to
talk about that.
So welcome.
Welcome, Denzil.
>> Denzil Mohammed:
Thank you, Juan Felipe.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria:
You know,
I'm very inspired, as I said.
I'm very inspired of all
the range of activities
and the depth of vision,
and the expansive reach
that your center has in
Malden, Massachusetts.
Can you tell us tell
us about that scope.
It's just so profound
and so innovative,
and also very deep given
the fact that you do so much
in a concrete focus,
and then you do
so much an expansive focus.
>> Denzil Mohammed: Yes, we
started out 28 years ago,
in Malden, Massachusetts,
which is the city
with the second highest
concentration
of immigrants in
the Commonwealth.
It has always been a
gateway city for immigrants,
various waves over the
past century or so.
And so, there was
definitely a need
for English language
instruction that was free.
So in 1992, we began with 60
students and three teachers.
Over the years, we've
served well over 10,000,
with what is really not a casual
sort of kind of instruction.
It's five days a week,
sometimes 15 hours a week,
during the daytime, not
evenings, not weekends.
So it's a very, very
intensive English immersion
instruction program.
And over the years, because
we're mostly privately funded,
we are able to adapt it
to whatever the needs
are for our constituents.
So people come from around
Eastern Massachusetts
and we're able to
change the instruction.
So that's why we have
four levels of literacy,
for instance, where we're able
to adapt our program
for who is in need.
So if we see that there are
more people who are need
of high level instruction, we're
able to expand those classes.
And we do much more
than serve immigrants.
I mean, our mission is to
give immigrants a voice.
And we would like to think
that we do that in three ways.
One is through this free
English instruction.
But since 911, we realized
that we also need to
educate Americans.
Americans know very little about
immigrants and immigration,
the immigration system.
So we would like to help
change the conversation
on immigration in
the United States.
So I direct our public
education institute,
which educates Americans
about immigrants
and their contributions.
And we also give immigrants
a voice through research.
We partnered with George
Mason University in Virginia,
and launched the Institute
of Immigration Research
eight years ago and they look
at immigrant contributions
on a national level.
Everything from immigrants
in trucking and health care
to immigrant Nobel laureates.
You'll be surprised to know
that more than one-third
of Americans, Nobel laureates
were born in another country.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria:
That's incredible.
You know, you speak
of the English learning
program that you have.
And, you know, what's
the process?
What's the process that
you have come up with
and developed during
these years?
It's such a difficult
transition,
you know, stepping in.
I remember stepping into
first grade, in my experience,
let's speak in English.
And it was just a violent clash,
physically, being punished
for not knowing English
and being out of sorts
and not knowing how to
even walk through the halls
or walk into the class.
So how do you do it?
How do you get that --
what process do you have of
step one, step two, step three?
Hello, how are you?
Sit down. I mean, you
know how it is with --
the first step is so critical.
You know, just walking in
and saying [foreign
language], you're welcome here.
How are you, you know?
So what are some of
the steps that you have
or process or approaches?
>> Denzil Mohammed:
We pride ourselves
in very highly individualized
instruction.
And that goes all the way to
the very first time an immigrant
or refugee adult
steps into our doors.
Their testing is typically
administered by a counselor,
so that we are keenly aware
that they may be bringing
all sorts of, you know,
a lot of backgrounds and
maybe even trauma with them,
while they navigate the
American system and take
that very courageous step
of trying to learn English.
And might I just add that,
contrary to, you know,
the many of the myths that are
out there about immigrants,
our [inaudible] is
typically over 1,000 people.
Immigrants and refugees really
desire to learn English.
So we've never had
to advertise, ever.
We've always had a waiting list
of people wanting
to learn English.
So very individualized testing.
And then once we have a
space available for them,
we reach out to them by mail.
Right now it's by email.
And they could enter the
classes the way they best fit.
And again, because we're
so highly individualized
there's a lot
of differentiated
instruction, particularly
in our literacy program.
So there may be a class of
30 people, but that's divided
into six possible
different groups,
or 10 possible different groups,
depending on where they are.
They may be good at
oral delivery English,
but not writing, or the
converse may be the situation.
So even homework instruction
is very highly differentiated.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: Yes.
Well, that's a lot, you
know, to have it kind
of a spectrum of the process.
And like you said,
so differentiated.
That's incredible, you
know, and I was also --
and what you also
mentioned about teaching.
What you said, Americans,
and what is that all about?
What's involved, because
there's so much as you know,
as we all know, as
everyone knows, there's just
so much friction, and the kind
of intensified intensification
of differences, quote,
unquote, and the intensification
of stereotypes, so how
do you approach people
that are not part of the program
that are outside the program?
>> Denzil Mohammed: Immigration
is as American as apple pie,
which in of itself was brought
to America by immigrants.
America is an immigration
are inextricably linked.
And the fact is that every
immigrant group that came here
from the Germans to
the Irish, Italians,
all the way up to the
presence of Mexicans
and Muslims experienced
some sort of backlash.
We don't do advocacy,
but we want to change the
conversation on immigration.
So we give groups without their
grassroots, groups the tools
that they can use to
work in their work
to help change the conversation
from the community
level right up.
So a lot of that deals
with, A, the facts.
When we started out this
Public Education Institute
after 911 we commissioned
research.
All immigrants a net
benefit to the US.
Has that always been the case?
And, of course, we've
commissioned the research.
And we found out, well,
yes, that is true.
> Why is that?
Immigrants are inherently
entrepreneurial.
People who pack a bag, and
leave a country leave everything
behind, leave everyone
they know,
that's a very entrepreneurial
act.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: Yes.
>> Denzil Mohammed:
They take a risk hoping
that something will be better
for them and their children.
And so that's the
message we want to spread
around the country through
webinars, through books,
through research,
conference presentations,
community dialogues.
And over the years, I think
we've had a lot of great impact
within the state
of Massachusetts.
Our work has helped shape
the new Americans agenda
that was commissioned by
former governor Deval Patrick.
And we seek on a national level
to truly help change the
conversation into something
that is fact based, and is
something that is positive.
And particularly in
the last few years,
emphasizing common values,
shared values, shared
prosperity.
You know, what happens to
immigrants is not something
that simply happens
to another group.
immigrants are part
of our economy.
They're part of our communities.
They're our friends,
our neighbors,
our employers, our employees.
So letting people
know that what happens
to immigrants happens
to everyone.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: Good.
That's beautiful.
You know, we need more of that.
And how do people respond that
are not aware of all this?
How do people respond that are
not aware of all the amazing,
incredible histories
that you just described?
They go, what do they --
they go, oh, this is great.
Do they think about it?
Is there a way to find out how
they feel once you present the
materials and the people, and
the exposure, and the learning
to the quote, unquote,
outside world?
>> Denzil Mohammed:
People are often surprised
who work with immigrants.
Some of the most basic facts
like immigrants make up less
than 15% of our population.
That's the entire foreign
born population of the US.
And yet there are people
who think it's 50% or 30%.
And it's actually a lot less.
And it speaks to the fact
that we have been fed
throughout our lifetimes a lot
of sound bites, a
lot of myths too.
Immigrants take jobs.
Immigrants bring disease.
Immigrants bring crime.
We are being overrun
by immigrants.
And you as a poet would
know the power of the words
that we choose, like
infestation or invasion.
And so, people are often
very, very surprised at some
of the most basic facts
that immigrants are critical
to our labor force,
they are overrepresented
in our labor force.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: Yes.
>> Denzil Mohammed:
During this pandemic,
especially we've seen how
immigrants are overrepresented
in essential services.
They are taking care of the
sick, people who have COVID-19.
They're taking care
of our baby boomers.
They're overrepresented in
our health care industry,
in our food and agriculture,
sanitation and transportation.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: Yes.
>> Denzil Mohammed: They
are states like Nebraska,
where they, without immigrants,
the meatpacking industry
would collapse.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria:
That's right.
>> Denzil Mohammed: In
California, as you know,
agriculture, hugely
impacted by immigrants.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria:
That's true.
>> Denzil Mohammed: And we're
talking about documented
and undocumented immigrants.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: Yeah.
>> Denzil Mohammed:
Undocumented immigration
to the US has always
been a thing.
It is not something that is new.
And as you know, the history of
the Brasero Program and others,
there was always a flow
of people back and forth.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: Yeah.
>> Denzil Mohammed: So a lot
of the very basic information,
Americans don't know.
The immigration system itself
is as complex as the tax system.
You know, there is no
line, for instance.
So getting a lot of those basic
facts often surprises people.
I think it opens their eyes.
We've even spoken in
schools to children.
I've spoken to fifth graders,
who themselves they come
up to me afterwards and said,
"Everything you've told
me is exactly the opposite
of what my mother's
has been telling me."
What children are being
fed these messages?
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: Right.
>> Denzil Mohammed: So, A,
awakening them to the facts.
B, tapping into more positive
thinking about our shared values
that we have much
more in common.
An immigrant mother,
and a US born mother,
think the same things.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: Yes.
>> Denzil Mohammed: They want
their children to be healthy,
to be bright, to have
a chance at the future.
There's not much
that separates us.
So emphasizing that shared
humanity is something
that we really try to do.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: I
think that's the heart of it.
And I think that's another
reason why your center is
so important in what you've done
and developed for other centers
to tap into and perhaps
to just agree
with because they're
doing it also.
>> Denzil Mohammed:
Well, you know,
we do have a brand
new youth board.
One of the ideas being that
young people, you know,
one of our main audiences
is teachers, educators.
As I talked about fifth graders
who are being fed
wrong information,
young people need the
right information.
They need to change
the conversation.
They are going to
be our leaders,
and we want them
to have the facts.
We want them to have
a perspective
of America that is not insular.
That is global, because
America is such a diverse place.
So one of the things that
we started is a youth board
of high school students.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: Yes.
>> Denzil Mohammed: With the
idea of they being able to go
out into their schools
and spread that message
that America is a
nation of immigrants.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: Yes.
>> Denzil Mohammed: During this
pandemic, one of the things
that several of our youth board
members has done is they've
actually started a
free tutoring program.
So they've been able to recruit
dozens of high school students
across Massachusetts to
tutor people and children
in low income or rural areas
who may not have access
to solid virtual learning.
Many of those children are
children in immigrant families.
And that model has actually
spread to Los Angeles,
where a group of high school
students who are looking
to do more community
service are looking
to replicate that program.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria:
That's amazing.
That's good.
That way the program
has longevity,
and it replicates itself
and it expands and deepens.
That's great.
You know, it's like
your program is not --
your center is not just
a one dimensional center.
It has many dimensions.
And that's what we need.
You know, let me go back, or
let me go forward to dialogue.
You know, there's a lot
of learning taking place,
there's a lot of
tutoring taking place,
there's even publishing taking
place, and expanding the radius
of the center in
terms of materials
and what you do and
how you do it.
What about dialogue?
Is there a way that you,
or maybe this is dialogue,
but is there a way that you
put two different people side
to side or a group and somehow
how you work with groups
and individuals, those that
are in the center, immigrants,
and those that are not
immigrants, already are involved
in the core, or in the
centers of power in society.
Let's just put it
that way, then.
To talk with each other, and to
listen to each other as opposed
to read about each
other, or see each other
on the screen, or in a book.
Is there any kind of face to
face encounters, where we go,
this is who I am, you know.
Or, you know, people are in
a circle, you do any of that?
>> Denzil Mohammed: We try
to get other organizations,
grassroots organizations,
nonprofits,
the tools to be able to do that.
So there's a lot of recent
work by organizations like,
More in Common, the
Frameworks Institute,
even the California Immigrant
Policy Center, that have looked
at how you talk about
immigration.
What kind of framing do you use?
So a lot of our work over the
past few years, particularly
since 2017, has been on
that immigration narrative.
Words to use, words not to use.
What sorts of frames to use.
So, for instance,
don't say things
like coming out of the shadows.
That has a negative connotation.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria:
That's true.
>> Denzil Mohammed:
Don't, you know,
in place of immigrant
use words, like friends,
like community members, like
workers, like soccer coaches.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria:
That's right.
>> Denzil Mohammed: In
terms of framing, you know,
think about immigration
as part of the whole
in a community wide issue.
It's not just something
that affects one group.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: Okay.
>> Denzil Mohammed: So,
A, a lot of the work I do
at our public education
institute is
to give other organizations
those tools,
so that they can spread out and
facilitate those conversations
in their churches, in their
after school programs,
in their community dialogues.
We ourselves, go to libraries
and other community
organizations across the state,
and help facilitate
those conversations.
You know, sometimes it can
be a little bit heated,
in [inaudible] small part
because people are --
they believe a lot of the
myths and misinformation.
And it's really difficult
for them
to divorce themselves of that.
Sometimes when they see an
immigrant telling them these
things, they may or may
not want to believe it.
So giving US born people
those tools has been
crucially important.
Our research institute at George
Mason University, the Institute
for Immigration Research,
they're looking
at things at a policy level.
So looking at immigrant
contributions
and how integral they are
to our labor force to paying
into Social Security, and
Medicare, they have tried
to help spread that message
through their policy
work and their research.
And I think as for our students,
they learn integration
in our center.
You walk into any particular
classroom for E-COVID.
And you will see a young
Dominican guy sitting down next
to an older Chinese man,
and they're working
together on a project.
You see Syrian refugees
in hijabs talking
to Haitian immigrants on
temporary protected status.
They learn about each other,
they learn about different
cultures, religions,
they learn how to get
along, they learn how
to depend on each other.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: I
think that you mentioned COVID.
How did COVID impact
everyone at the center
or the program itself?
>> Denzil Mohammed:
So our classes moved
online even before the state
of emergency was
declared in Massachusetts.
We had unfortunately no model
to work with when it came
to something like this.
So our teachers, particularly
our literacy teachers,
had to overnight become,
A, tech experts, and, B,
innovators in terms of how
they lead their instruction.
So not only using things like
Zoom, but also Google Hangouts
and meet-ups using
FaceTime, WhatsApp,
which is very popular
among immigrants in the US.
Teachers were using that to
help in their instruction.
Our literacy program,
particularly, you know,
those students are in such a
delicate educational stage.
We needed to make sure that that
those students weren't lost.
And so, some of our literacy
teachers actually shifted
to phone conversations.
And their day of instruction
was literally one phone call
after another with one
student at a time going
over English pronunciation.
How do they repeat the
statements they got
for homework to practice?
So very, very individualized
instruction.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria:
I wasn't expecting the
phone conversations.
That's something that I
want to think about in here
in Fresno, where we are.
And I think that's
a great thing.
Makes it intimate,
makes it personal.
And it's listening to the
voice very closely also.
It's right here.
It's right here.
It's not out here.
Well, congratulation
on that approach
and all you're doing
at that area.
You know, you have so much
culture, we come in with
so much culture and so many
traditions and celebrations,
our language and
languages, different regions,
different generations.
Is that something that
comes into the writing
or the expression
of certain events,
or are you really are operating
at different levels, you know,
economics, history, the larger
society as opposed to, or,
you know, harsh or
highly defined difference
from our cultural, you know,
abilities and cultural knowledge
and tradition, celebrations
and beliefs, and all that.
Do you deal with those
aspects of the people?
>> Denzil Mohammed:
So our instruction is very
highly contextualized.
[ Inaudible ]
Civics is incorporated
into every class
from a literacy program to
all levels one through four,
Esau Program, English language
for speakers of other languages.
But even though that we are an
English immersion English only
program --
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: Yes.
>> Denzil Mohammed: -- which is
a little bit more challenging,
but we find it to
actually be more effective.
We emphasize that everyone's
culture is important.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: Yeah.
>> Denzil Mohammed: Everyone
culture needs to be shared.
Everyone's culture
needs to be transferred
and brought to their homeland.
We host international days
where each classroom
is a different region,
as students dress up and bring
their foods, the mayor comes,
members of the public come,
elected officials come.
And so, we both instruct on
US culture, and emphasize
that their culture is also
something that's very important
and very valuable.
And because we have
students from, you know,
we've taught students from
over 140 different countries,
top countries of origin right
now include Brazil, Haiti,
Morocco, Dominican
Republic, El Salvador.
So it's a lot of different
languages and cultures
and backgrounds and
religions rolled into one.
But they are reminded everyday
that those things
are very important.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria:
Yes, yes, yes.
No, because I've been thinking
about the cultural sources.
We have, you know,
resources, celebrations,
and all those things
that we think about most
of the time as cultural.
And but I've been thinking
about, you know, deep sources
of cultural knowledge.
That is, kind of the original
materials or early materials
in our particular
cultures that contain
or that preserved
ethical values.
Are those things
brought up at all?
Only because that's an area
that I'm really interested in.
And I think that
we have a lot of --
we carry on, and we have very
deep ethical value systems
in our cultural roots, whether
they're in scrolls, or books,
or stories, early, very early
stories, not recent stories,
but very early stories, and they
kind of guide us through life.
And they kind of assist
us in the kind of changes
that we face, for example, in
this country, the United States.
Is that brought up or is
that just a little too deep?
Or let's say the books that
you mentioned, the publications
or in some discussions?
I'm just curious about
that, because it's so key
and so beautiful
and so important.
And it's easy to kind of just
build sediments on top of it,
and then create,
recreate the culture
in more contemporary manners.
Even though we do have
much deeper layers
of where we come from.
>> Denzil Mohammed: I think
a lot of different cultural
and ethical qualities help,
they actually help
inform our instruction.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: Yes.
>> Denzil Mohammed:
So, for instance,
we have teachers
who are from Haiti.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: Yes.
>> Denzil Mohammed: And
they use oral tradition
in their instruction.
They use a chanting and singing.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria:
Oh, man.
>> Denzil Mohammed: I
have teachers from Algeria
who also bring in
their traditions
into actual instruction.
And so, students are
exposed to these sort
of different cultural facets.
In terms of ethics, I don't
think that we necessarily get
into that level of things.
But it certainly helps
in formal classrooms.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: Yes,
I like that idea of chanting
and singing in the classroom.
I really do.
>> Denzil Mohammed:
[Inaudible] remember.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: Right.
Because I, you know,
when I used to teach
at Chicano Latin American
Studies here at Fresno State,
I would start to sing.
I said, no, I'm just going to
kind of sing the lessons today.
Or I want to sing
the discussion.
I mean, not in a fabulous,
you know, operatic voice,
but I'm just going to sing
the way, whatever way I can.
And it just changes everything.
You know, kind of people
begin to melt a little bit,
and the doors begin
to soften and open.
And I enjoy that.
And I can see how that can
be so beautiful and valuable,
given our various traditions
in a classroom format,
or in a smaller group setting.
So I salute you on having those,
that openness in the center,
and in the programming
and the teaching.
And I bet you it
really, you know,
brings out the heart, right.
All of a sudden it's the
love of the a classroom.
All of a sudden,
I'm at home again.
And even though it's a
it's a great classroom,
all of a sudden, I'm really
connecting to this class.
And as a matter of
fact, I'm joyful.
Right? All of a sudden, there's
joy involved in the learning
and teaching and grow.
>> Denzil Mohammed: And for
many years we actually ran a
theater program.
And that was one of the
last levels of instruction
where students in order
to build their confidence,
in order to public speaking, in
order to improve their writing
and delivery, they would
actually write plays themselves.
And so, they got actually bring
their cultures and backgrounds
but act out for the public.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria:
Beautiful [inaudible].
Now we're really talking.
[Laughs] You're right,
theater, you know,
it [inaudible] a group.
And you're right,
the voice, the voice.
It took me a long time to --
years and years and years
to really express myself.
I kind of was a silent
student for many years.
And my third grade teacher, you
know, because of my language,
and because of living on
the outside of the city
and being a farm
worker, and feeling kind
of absorbing the
negative perceptions
of who I was and who we were.
And then, not being
allowed to speak in Spanish
and then being punished
for that.
My third grade teacher, Mrs.
Lilia Samson invited me to come
up in front of the
class, and she said,
"Why don't you sing a song?"
And I had never participated
in the classroom.
And she says, "I'm right
here next to you, okay?
Face the class, and
sing a song, Juan."
You know, that was a
challenge of the century.
And I say, three blind mice,
and I did my little best.
And she was right next to
me, and she turned around
and she said, "You have
a beautiful voice."
And that shattered all
the negative barriers
that I had been dragging
around since first grade,
second grade, up to third grade.
So I'm so glad that
you bring up the voice,
which is at the core,
don't you see?
>> Denzil Mohammed:
I absolutely agree.
And giving students that voice,
students from other countries,
to be able to go into doctor's
offices and be able to talk
to them, to be able to talk to
the teachers of their children.
They have -- English language
is that equal to what agency.
It allows them to be able
to help chart the courses
of their lives better, that of
their children when they're able
to talk to someone in City
Hall, or talk to their employer,
talk to their doctors, their,
you know, at PTA meetings.
We have stories of students
in our literacy program,
who not only learn basic
English, but also learn civics
and learn their rights.
And they were able to
tell their employer,
you know, turn up the heat.
It's February, we are cold.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: Yeah.
>> Denzil Mohammed: If you don't
do that, I will call City Hall.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria: [Laugh]
I'm glad to hear that too.
You know, it was very difficult
for me, you know, challenging,
challenging or contesting
or simply put,
putting out a point of view.
There's so much pressure.
For me, I felt a lot
of pressure to do that,
because I was brought
up with, you know,
respect for our elders,
and respect for my mother,
of course, and my
father, of course.
But it was kind of deep respect.
It was not just a
respect everybody.
It was kind of a deep respect.
And no matter where
I went, there I was.
I had a deep respect for elders,
and deep respect for teachers,
and deep respect
for administrators.
So it was difficult
to say I disagree.
So I'm really happy that you
work through all those things
in your programming, and your
students, and the students
at the center, and the
centers that you've worked
with have all those tools
to kind of learn the basics,
exchange, and write, and
express and contribute.
And also, just bring
out your voice now.
You've learned all
these things now.
Okay, it's your turn.
And so, I appreciate
what you're doing.
And thank you so
much, Dr. Mohammed,
and keep up the great work.
And congratulations on the
American Award for Literacy.
And I want to follow up on
your center just because I'm
so interested in
education also, and poetry.
[Foreign language].
Thank you so much.
>> Denzil Mohammed: Thank
you very much, Juan Felipe.
>> Juan Felipe Oliveria:
Thank you, Denzil.