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>> Stephanie Stillo: Hi,
my name Stephanie Stillo,
and I'm a curator
in the Rare Books
and Special Collections
Division, and I am delighted
to welcome you to another
segment of From the Vaults.
Today, we are joined
by the Rare Books
and Special Collections
medievalist Marianna Stell.
>> Marianna Stell: Hi.
Thank you, Stephanie.
>> Stephanie Stillo: So,
today we're going to talk
about a collaboration that we
find in the Air Mount Library.
And this collaboration was
between the artist Pablo Picasso
and the poet Pierre Reverdy.
So, during World War II,
Reverdy composed a series
of 40 some poems.
And they came under the title
of Lashante's [phonetic]
Desmal [phonetic],
or the Song of the Dead.
And the poems really
reflect Reverdy's engagement
with the international
conflict and how he saw
that unfolding around him.
So, they are a mixture
of extreme despair,
but also hopeful optimism.
So, in 1948, Pablo
Picasso created a series
of original lithographs to
accompany Reverdy's poems.
But instead of doing
a literal translation
or visual elaboration
on Reverdy's poetry,
he instead created an
abstract visual language
that latticed through
the poetry.
So, to talk about this
unique visual language
that Picasso created
for Reverdy's poems,
we're going to talk more
with Marianna Stell.
So, Marianna, there's
a great deal of debate
about why Picasso illustrated
this particular text
in this particular way.
But one of the prevailing
theories is
that he was influenced
by medieval manuscripts.
So, as a medievalist, what
are some of the visual echoes
of medieval manuscripts that
you see in Picasso's work?
>> Marianna Stell: Well,
medievalists have a tendency
to see echoes of medieval
manuscripts everywhere.
But I think in this
case, we're justified.
The publisher, Tiriad
[phonetic], was very interested
in creating what he
called a modern manuscript.
And that was this ability
to take a famous artist,
like Picasso, or Matisse, or
[inaudible], and mix the words
with the images in a
particular way that was inspired
by medieval manuscripts.
And I think of his
collaborative works,
The Song of the Dead really
stands out because of some
of the decisions that, in
particular, Picasso made.
And so one of the
wonderful things about being
at the Library of Congress is
how deep the collections go.
And so we were able to pull
some medieval manuscripts here,
15th century manuscripts.
>> Stephanie Stillo: An
impressive one, as well.
>> Marianna Stell: Absolutely.
To kind of continue the
conversation that the author
and the illustrator had.
All right, so the first thing
I want to draw your attention
to is the size of this work.
The manuscript, modern
manuscripts tended to be
in this folio size,
which adds a kind
of presence to the creation.
You're not going to slip this
in your pocket and take it
on your metro ride into work.
This is something you're going
to deliberately maybe sit
down with or stand, and
it needs to be held.
And so we picked as a pairing
this 15th century gradual,
which would have been used
in a liturgical setting.
Obviously this needs
to be held up.
And it would have been available
so that a choir could
have sung in front of it.
And we wanted to draw
attention to just how like large
and impressive this work is in
size, but also in the dynamics
of the script and the
color that's used.
Because the color
is what converses
with history more
than anything else.
So, traditionally, medieval
manuscripts are created with,
if you're only going
to pick one color,
it would be this vibrant red.
So, this red is called
rubrication
in manuscript studies,
and it comes
from the Latin word
rubrica, which means red.
And it's the word we use as
the basis of our word rubric.
So, that's where
we got that from.
And if you'll notice this
15th century German manuscript
on your left, there
are little red lines.
And the first letter of many
of the sections uses
a very similar color.
And intentionally or not,
Picasso's work goes back
and references the rubrication
of earlier manuscripts.
>> Stephanie Stillo:
It's very interesting,
because we have seen other
artist books in [inaudible]
that are in the Air
Mount Library
that use a similar red as well.
So, earlier we talked
in one of our segments
about George Ruro [phonetic]
and his particular
illustrations for SERC.
And he used a very
specific red also
because it was the
red of old books.
So, a very similar and
nice connection there.
>> Marianna Stell: And
we do know that Picasso
at least saw one manuscript
in a rare books shop in Paris,
because his partner at
the time attest to it.
So, we do know that he at least
interacted with him minimally,
though, how much and exactly
what we can't quite say.
>> Okay.
>> Stephanie Stillo:
All right, well,
that was incredibly fascinating.
But as someone that studies
medieval manuscripts,
you surely see differences also
between what Picasso has done
and what you see in
manuscript production.
So, tell us about some of
those differences as well.
>> Marianna Stell: Excellent.
Yes, this is when it helps
to have an older piece
right next to it.
So, one of the differences
would be kind
of from a medieval aesthetic,
this would be considered maybe
less expensive manuscript.
It has the hallmarks of
something that would be created
with a little bit
more roughness.
And so the first thing we notice
is that this is on paper rather
than parchment, and parchment
would have been a more
luxury item.
It also has no proper
illumination,
so technically speaking,
illumination refers
to the gold leaf
that you see here.
And so where this might
have what's called pen work,
Picasso's brushstrokes
are rough.
And that roughness
would have been,
it would have been difficult
to see this as a luxury item
in the 15th century for
a 15th century audience.
The other real point
of departure
for the modern manuscript
is in the script.
So, it was very important
to [inaudible] the publisher
that these modern
manuscripts be in the hand
of the artist or the poet.
So, in this case,
it's Reverdy's hand.
And you'll notice here
there's a cross out,
and more is written at the top.
And so for medieval studies,
this would be considered
a scribal error.
Scribes were not the authors.
Their scribes were
very well trained,
and it was a professional job,
and you were often
just a copyist.
And so you'll notice these
letters are very uniform.
And this would be, scribbling
in your notebook would
not have been something
that you would then illuminate.
>> Stephanie Stillo: Yeah.
>> Marianna Stell: This would
have, on the other hand,
for the contemporary
audience in a modern setting,
this brings us closer
to what we think
of as being an authentic moment
of genius for the artist.
And so we are looking for that
kind of intimate engagement
with a moment of
artistic genius.
This is looking for a kind
of technical perfection.
And so you have two
different artistic aims here
that I think is very important,
because it tells you something
about the culture in
which they're created.
>> Stephanie Stillo:
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think it's really
interesting that you bring
up Tiriad [phonetic] as
well, because you're right,
that several of the
publications that come
from him do have
that handwriting.
So, you think immediately of one
of the most famous [inaudible],
which is jazz, right,
that is famously
in Matisse's handwriting.
All right, so sort
of a larger question
of why do you think
Picasso decided
to illustrate Reverdy's
poetry in this particular way?
So, he was notorious about
having very different levels
of engagement with the text
that he was illustrating.
He and Reverdy were, of course,
friends, and so I don't know
if that came into it, but
what do you think is Picasso's
engagement here between the
illustration and the text?
>> Marianna Stell: Well, so
Picasso made more lithographs
for this book than
he did for any other.
And so he was certainly invested
in it to a certain extent,
though with Picasso, I certainly
couldn't speak for him.
My impression is
that his engagement
with the text also has a
bit of a historical point
of conversation in
that I think Picasso,
like the medieval period,
recognized the flexibility
of abstraction.
And with the medieval period,
you often have border
illustrations or you have
like these lovely initials that
make use of lines and designs.
And Picasso is able to, he
certainly abstracts them more,
kind of takes them apart
and layers them on the page.
But both the medieval period
and Picasso's drawings allow the
reader to engage with the text
and bring their own thoughts
to it without being catechized.
So, Picasso's illustrations
are not really illustrations
in the sense that
they're not pictorial
and they don't tell you
how to interpret the text.
They allow you to bring your
experience to the illustrations
and let the movement
of the border designs bring
you through the poetry.
>> Stephanie Stillo: Yeah.
And it's interesting to think
about that the poetry
itself has a bit
of abstraction to
it as well, right?
So, there's sort of several
layers of interpretation
that you could engage with
in this particular work,
which is really interesting
to think about.
>> Marianna Stell: I think so.
>> Stephanie Stillo: So, as
a way of sort of wrapping up,
everyone sees Picasso through
their own particular lens.
So, through your study in the
medieval period, what do you see
with Picasso and
his brushwork here?
>> Marianna Stell:
Thank you for asking.
My, I feel like Picasso is
such a complicated artist
that everybody has their own
way of interacting with him.
In some ways, everybody
has their own Picasso.
For me, Picasso is a master
of [inaudible] a stroke
with emotion that comes off the
page or comes off the painting
or comes off the ceramic.
He was in a ceramic period
when he created this.
>> Stephanie Stillo:
Interesting.
>> Marianna Stell: And
capturing the viewer
and having them feel
the emotion,
even in his abstraction.
And because of my background in
kind of late medieval studies,
to me, the like graphic impulse,
particularly in this work,
strikes me as being very
similar to the graphic impulse
that was used in
late 15th century,
often Northern European work,
which broadly refer
to as blood piety.
And it's a tendency for
medieval manuscripts
to have a kind of roughness.
And very similar to the
strokes that Picasso is using.
And it's a way of communicating
to the viewer a way
of helping them to identify with
the suffering, both physical
and emotional suffering
of a very human Christ.
So, it is a part of a
devotional practice.
And we have a little
manuscript here.
>> Stephanie Stillo: Oh, my.
>> Marianna Stell:
As an example.
>> Stephanie Stillo:
Quite, quite a contrast.
>> Marianna Stell:
It is, in size.
And so this is exactly, this
is the kind of manuscript
that you hold and
you take with you.
And it emphasizes
a more personal way
of interacting with
the material.
And so we have this little book.
And you can see the dots and
the lines in red that are drawn
over in a really, in a way of
helping the viewer to identify
with the suffering of
Christ in this case.
And I think it's the parallels,
you can't call it a
historical precedent.
There is absolutely no
reason why Picasso would have
interacted with this kind
of devotional literature
very heavily.
But the graphic impulse
of the artist
in that period seemed
very similar to Picasso.
And both are responding
to suffering.
>> Stephanie Stillo: Absolutely.
>> Marianna Stell:
Reverdy's poems are filled
with the suffering
that he experienced
and that he knew others
experienced under,
during World War II.
And the 15th century was
also full of turmoil.
And so I think one
of the successes
of this modern manuscript
format, especially in the way
that Picasso and Reverdy
are able to come together
in this collaboration is
that because they are using
these kind of abstract methods
of communicating
to the audience,
I can take my educational
background, find a parallel
that then helps me to
enter a conversation
that they're having.
So, between the images
and between the words,
I have something to bring
to that relationship.
And I can't help, I wish
I could go back in time
and ask Tiriad [phonetic] if
that's what he was hoping to do.
But if it is, then certainly
Song of the Dead [inaudible].
>> Stephanie Stillo: Yeah,
that's a really beautiful
interpretation.
Thank you.
Marianna, thank you so
much for joining us today.
This was such a fascinating
exploration of the old and new
and how they can come together
to enlighten a little
bit of both.
So, I really appreciate
your knowledge
and your expertise here.
And we will definitely
come together again to talk
about more manuscripts, to talk
about more Leverdartise
[phonetic].
And I want to thank
you for joining us
for another segment
of From the Vaults.
We look forward to
seeing you next time.
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