>> Edward Miner: On behalf of the Library's African and Middle Eastern Division, I wish to welcome you to today's program in honor of Black History Month. I am Dr. Edward Miner, head of the African Section. For more than 60 years, the African Section has served as the focal point for Africa-based research, collections, and services at the Library. Within the division, it is one of three sections, including the Hebraic and Near Eastern, that provide access to research collections of unmatched depth and breadth, documenting the literatures, cultures, and histories of regions extending from the Southern tip of Africa to the Mediterranean Coast, across the Middle East to Central Asia and down to the Indian Ocean Islands. The Library holds rich collections in major African languages, such as Hausa, Arabic Compart, [phonetic] Tigrinya, Somali, Kiswahili, Malagasy, and Zulu, as well as hundreds of Western [inaudible]. Today's program highlights particular strengths in the Library's collections for Liberian historical research. Dr. C. Patrick Burrowes is a long-time user of these collections. In the following presentation entitled Re-Patriots, Re-Captives, and African Abolitionists: The Untold Story of Liberia's Founding in 1822, Dr. Burrowes takes us on an adventure into uncovering lost history in the archives. Moderator for this program is my esteemed colleague, African Area Specialist, Laverne Page. Over to you, Laverne. >> Laverne Page: Thank you, Edward. Good afternoon. The Library of Congress pays tribute during this Black History Month to the generations of African Americans who struggled with adversity to achieve full citizenship in American society by featuring programs such as the feast on our plates today. It is my pleasure to welcome you to this program. Again, my name is Laverne Page, and I am an Area Specialist in the African Section at the Library of Congress. Many years ago, I believed that I got this job as a librarian. In addition to having academic credentials, I believed that I got this job because of my connections and knowledge of Liberia at that time. My father worked in Zorzor, Liberia. And my brother and I felt that we knew Monrovia, Hakata, and Zorzor like the backs of our hands. We loved being there in Liberia. I'm going to introduce you now to our speaker, Dr. C. Patrick Burrowes, who is no stranger at all to staff in some of the reading rooms at the Library. He has spent much time there conducting research and also participating in a major way in African section activities, like the Liberian-U.S. Relations Symposium in 2007, coordinated by Dr. Angel Batiste. So I'm going to take a minute to provide some academic background. C. Patrick Burrowes, Ph.D., is called the people's professor because of his willingness to share his deep knowledge of Liberian history freely with others. Before returning to Liberia in 2017, he was a tenured Professor of Communications and Humanities at Penn State University. From 1995 to 1997, he was at the Carter G. Woodson Distinguished Professor of Journalism at Marshall University. Dr. Burrowes is the author of Between the Kola Forest and the Salty Sea: A History of the Liberian People Before 1800, and co-author of the Historical Dictionary of Liberia. His research has received awards from the International Communication Association and the Association for Education in Journalism and Mass Communications. Dr. Burrowes holds a B.A. in Journalism from Howard University in 1976, M.A. in Communications, Syracuse University, 1979, and a Ph.D. in Communications. Since he knows so much about us, I asked Dr. Burrowes what he thought that you, our audience, might want to know about the Library of Congress. And he said that novices may want to know how to do research here. So using a few slides, I will tell you about that. Next slide, please. First, the Thomas Jefferson Building is one of the most beautiful buildings in the world. The photograph to the left is a view overlooking the main reading room. And the other photograph is the new reading room for the African and Middle Eastern Division. And it too is quite beautiful. Next slide, please. Researchers for Africana subjects will want to start by contacting the African Section staff and for several -- and there's several access points here on this page, you know, such as the -- Actually, I'm looking at the wrong slide. This is the slide that I should refer to for researchers who are coming to the Library and want to acquaint themselves with the Library's research and reference services. And we have collections in the millions in all formats, books, pamphlets, journals, newspapers, photographs, manuscripts, unpublished papers, maps, films, and more in all languages and scripts. We collect on all subjects except clinical medicine and technical agriculture. And this particular webpage that we were looking at just a second ago is full of information. And it's really so helpful. It also provides what you need to know about coming to the Library during this era of coronaviruses. Now, this is the slide that is about the African Section. And those of you who want to come might start by contacting African Section staff. And several access points are here on this page, such as the list of countries and who to contact for reference assistance, and so forth. And then this next slide is of -- it's about the Prints and Photographs Reading Room. And please note that there are 328 photographs on Liberia, with more coming. The Library is continually adding to its collections. And then this last slide shows you a finding aid for the American Colonization Society records from 1792 to 1964. And note the size of this collection. It's available also to all researchers. And now I will turn you over to our friend of the Library of Congress, our researcher extraordinaire, doctor C. Patrick Burrowes. >> Carl Patrick Burrowes: Thank you so much for that generous introduction. And I want to begin by thanking the Africa and Middle Eastern Division of the Library for inviting me to give this talk. It actually feels like a homecoming in many ways because the Library has been like a second home, no matter where I was along my academic journey. I, at times, worked in California. I would trek to the Library every summer from West Virginia, wherever, you know, life in my career took me. In fact, I'm going to share an anecdote with you that I don't, you know, speak about publicly. I haven't before. But I happen to be in the reading room one evening. And when I looked up, I noticed that all the lights were off. I had become so engrossed in my work that I didn't hear the very gentle chime that was used at the time to signal that the reading room was closing. And so I made my way sheepishly to an exit. Fortunately, this was pre 9/11, and the security precautions were not as stringent as they are now. So the security guard looked me over and then allowed me to exit with all my photocopies in hand. Some of my relatives have never let me live that down because they said it was predictable that, you know, because I was so bookish, they said, and into working in libraries that it was inevitable I would get locked in at some point. Well, being asked to give this talk during Black History Month is humbling, knowing as I do the blood, sweat, and tears that went into creating the historical record that February is now set aside to celebrate. The first step in that long journey began with debunking many widely accepted myths about Black passivity, criminality, immorality, and inferiority. Those weeds had to be cleared before the recognition that people of African descent had agency in humanity. The work of debunking anti-Black myths dates back at least to Ahmed Baba, a scholar in Timbuktu, who lived between 1556 and 1627. Baba produced several carefully argued theses, rebutting claims of African inferiority made by Arab writers of his time, some of whom offered theological justifications rooted in Islam. But as we all know, the revolution in Black history, which we take for granted today, was sparked in the early 20th century by a small cadre of scholars and activists. Most of whom, noted -- most notable, I should say, among them were Dr. W. E. B. Du Bois and Dr. Carter G. Woodson. Through their pioneering efforts, the misrepresentations and misconceptions that veiled Black humanity were stripped away. Unlike African American history, however, the history of Liberia, which was impacted by slavery and anti-slavery in the U.S., has remained shrouded by unchallenged myths for 200 years. Some date back to the early 19th century. They have reduced Liberian story to the status of a children's fairy tale, with a cast of local victims and villains who are policed by a few saviors, usually Westerners. In the Liberian context, what passes for history are often models of the society derived from political science as well as an outdated, excuse me, and discredited school of anthropology. In this brief talk, I cannot present a fully developed cura-narrative [phonetic] complete with empirical evidence. Instead, I simply hope to leave you questioning some sacred dogma. After all, questioning is the first step in learning and scholarship in all disciplines, including history. This year, 2022, is the bicentennial of Liberia's founding. It provides a perfect opportunity to peel back the veil to see what really lies beneath. So here, in no particular order, are five of the most widely accepted myths about Liberian history. Myth Number 1: In the 19th century, the people of the Windward Coast, where Liberia is now located, were primitives organized into unchanging ethnic groups committed to frozen traditions, including the capture and selling of Africans. This myth is rooted in a 19th-century assumption of cultures as genetically determined and unchanging. In reality, ethnicity, power, and culture in the region had all been remade many times over by more than 300 years of engagement in the trans-Atlantic trade. By the mid-1600s, Africans along the coast of what is now known as Liberia were, among other patterns, drinking French brandy and Caribbean rum, eating smoked herring from the Mediterranean and salted codfish from Norway, wearing wax print from Java, and hunting with Danish muskets. Cassava, originally imported from Brazil, have been integrated into local cuisines, both in a stew known as cassava leaf and dumbo, which was derived from the pounded root of the plant. Some residents spoke Dutch, French, and English, while Portuguese words like palava [phonetic] were already embedded in local languages. While some warlords and gangs of kidnappers were committed to maintaining the human traffic, there were anti-slavery rulers and communities who provided land for the colony of Liberia. If you don't acknowledge the existence of African abolitionists in the early 19th century, you cannot understand the founding of Liberia. Myth Number 2: Those who came from the U.S. were culturally incommensurate and hence, incompatible with those already living in the area. This misconception assumes that the God-like enslavers in the Southern United States had remade the enslaved descendants of Africa in their own image, culturally, psychologically, and spiritually. But reality was messier and far more complex. In truth, the cultural roots of those who immigrated from the U.S. to the Windward Coast drew sustenance from their continent of ancestral origin. The shaping influence of Africa is still evident in the rhythm of go-go music in D.C., the sounds of Gullah Geechee speech in South Carolina and in Coastal Georgia, in the okra gumbo of New Orleans, in the swaying of bodies brought on by the joyful noise of rhythmic clapping, and in the aesthetic of Ku, [phonetic] which the Gola people of Liberia define as quote, "the ability to be nonchalant at the right moment." And when I think of that stance, of course, I think of Miles Davis, among others. If African culture continues to echo throughout the diaspora even today, imagine then how much more pronounced those patterns were in the 19th century. When Blacks began immigrating to Liberia in the early 1800s, they were not citizens of the U.S. As a result, they were not regarded as Americans by others. Nor did they regard themselves as such. That sense would emerge in the 1830s and grow, you know, subsequently. Their sense of African identity was reflected in the names of churches and other institutions, such as the African Methodist Episcopal Church and the First African Baptist Church of Savannah, Georgia, to name a few. So when Baptist leader Lott Cary was asked why he chose to leave the U.S., it is recorded that he responded, quote, "I am an African and in this country, however meritorious my conduct and respectable my character, I cannot receive the credit due to either. I wish to go to a country where I shall be esteemed by my merits and not by my complexion. And I feel bound to labor for my suffering race." In some ways, this phrasing anticipates a part of Dr. King's address at the March on Washington. Myth 3: The American colonization society founded Liberia with support from the U.S. Navy's Anti-slavery Squadron. That half-truth was fueled by the Great White Man Theory of history, which prevailed in the early 19th century, as well as by the self-mythologizing of ACS leaders. So while both the U.S. and the U.S. Navy provided crucial resources, neither gave the blood, sweat, and tears, which cemented together the building blocks of the nation. After 200 years, it is time to broaden the spotlight to illuminate the actions of people previously confined to the shadows, specifically, the repatriates from the U.S., recaptives taken from aboard slave ships bound to the Americas, and African abolitionists, who constituted the country's founding generation. Myth Number 4: Liberia's founders were all men. A recurring use of masculine-inflected labels like kings has effaced the power held by some women in the Cape Mesurado region that became the site of Monrovia. According to the oral traditions of the Dade ethnic group, a woman named Woloo [phonetic] played a significant behind-the-scenes role in the negotiations for land for the colony. And she furnished housing and transportation to the repatriates. She was a matron in the female initiation society known as the Sande Society. In addition, a biracial woman named Philippa [phonetic] lived on Bali Island near what is now Monrovia. In fact, metropolitan Monrovia now incorporates Bali Island. She lived there with hundreds of her dependents. Had Philippa not died shortly before the arrival of the Americans seeking land, she probably would have participated in the purchase negotiations. Another woman, Mary McKenzie, sold her portion of Bushrod Island to Liberia in 1827 without any male support or opposition. The existence and prominence of these women was documented in primary sources from their era. A quote-unquote, traditional African culture did not exclude them from power as some might presume. They were erased from history by enlightened modern scholars who went looking for men as the embodiment of rulership and authority. And now Myth 5: The people of Liberia have spent their entire existence locked in ethnic conflicts without cross-ethnic collaborations or fusions. They are like billiard balls banging against each other on a pool table. This myth is the most insidious of all. It generalizes blame for the wrongdoing of any member of an ethnic, religious, or other group on to all members. After a military coup took place in Liberia in 1980, it was the dependents -- the descendants -- excuse me -- of the repatriates who were all villainized. But guilt by association, which underpins this mindset, has not remained focused on one group. It never does. In 1985 group animists and widespread violence was directed against members of the Mano and Dan ethnic groups because the leader of a failed coup attempt was from their region of Liberia. Five years later, the owners of group guild [phonetic] and victimization was redirected towards the Krahn in Mandingo. That mindset has never been challenged in the decades of post-war peace. It is dangerous because it forms the basis for genocidal actions. And it is especially dangerous in a country with 16 relatively small ethnic groups. The ascribing of criminality or immorality to an entire group is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode. Now, members of this audience who aren't Liberian might be inclined to view the existence of these myths as uniquely Liberian in origin and solution. But that view rests upon ideas embodied in Myth Number 1. If Africans along the Windward Coast were living in a globalized environment in 1822, that is much more the case for Liberians 200 years later. They do not shape their destiny in isolation. They never have. From Liberia's founding, U.S. media stories about the country have carried an obligatory paragraph about the role of ex-slaves in its history. Although that phrase is no longer ubiquitous, it is still often used. In contrast, new stories on Australia never reference, quote, "British convicts" who settled there. Repeated evocation of the ex-slave label by American journalists and scholars has helped to entrench a form of othering that suggests a less than human existence. In the words of sociologist Orlando Patterson, that language imprints the quote, "disposable status," that results in what he calls social death. After 200 years, it is time to drop the various tropes about Liberia. It is time to demand evidence in precise language instead of sweeping emotional claims. It is past time to replace the caricature of villains, victims, and saviors with images of complete and complex human beings. It is urgent that the legacy of Baba, Du Bois, Woodson, and others be brought to bear on Liberian history. One important lesson of their work is this: Reducing people of African descent to mere caricatures has consequences. Repetition doesn't make stereotypes true, neither does widespread acceptance. Left unchallenged, some caricatures can be deadly. Thank you. >> Laverne Page: Thank you so much, Dr. Burrowes, for that wonderful presentation. It's given me lots to think about. And I'm sure that our audience feels the same way. And we should open up this portion now of the program to questions for you. And we ask if you could put your questions in the Q and A box. And Dr. Edward Miner is going to assist with this portion. So Edward. >> Edward Miner: Thank you, Laverne. Firstly, the Library is very grateful to all of the greetings from the audience and expressions of appreciation. This is what we're all about, making our collections and the stories that they -- that they tell and that are -- and that they retell and that are reinterpreted to the world. I have a couple of questions I can answer directly. One, can the books written by Dr. Burrowes be presented in the text chat? I don't have that immediately at my fingertips. But if -- we will put up a link, or I will, and I'll get out the link to Ask A Librarian. And if you write your request to that, we can provide you with that information. Also, someone asked about the photographs from Liberia that were referenced in Laverne's introduction. And if, again, if you can send that request to the Ask A Librarian link that I'll put into the chat shortly, we can provide you with that. One audience member is asking about any connections between Marcus Garvey's idea of African return and the development of Liberia. Dr. Burrowes? >> Carl Patrick Burrowes: Yes, there was a connection. Garvey acknowledges being influenced by Edward Wilmot Blyden, who lived in Liberia before moving to Serra Leone. And so those ideas about Liberia and return played a role in the development of Garvey's own ideas. And there was an attempt by the Garvey movement to connect with Liberia. And that effort was aborted. >> Edward Miner: Thank you. Another audience member asks, how many people did the American Colonization Society actually repatriate to Liberia? And did any of them return? >> Carl Patrick Burrowes: This is a question that comes up very often. So let me answer the question up front quantitatively. There are about 15,000 from the U.S. who were repatriated under the auspices of the American Colonization Society. In addition, about 5,000 recaptives taken from aboard slave ships that were headed to the Americas were settled in Liberia by the U.S. Navy. And they were mainly from the area of Angola and the Congo, the Congo River. But there are also some from the Coast of Nigeria, et cetera. The question often comes up in the context of saying that the ACS effort failed because quantitatively, there weren't that many who ended up being removed. But if one pulls the lens back to look at all of the African Americans who found a way out, the picture that emerges is complex. And, you know, it shows that there was a drive before the Civil War on the part of many to find a way to freedom in whatever form it took. So we know that there are thousands who went to Canada. But there were others who went to Mexico. And there were thousands who went to Haiti as well. And so there was a repeated, you know, drive on the part of many African Americans to find, you know, security and liberty in some other space. >> Edward Miner: Thank you, Dr. Burrowes. Another audience member asks, thank you for an enlightening and necessary talk. When you speak of Liberia's 16 ethnic groups, are you not counting the settlers as an ethnic group? >> Carl Patrick Burrowes: Yeah, that's a very good question. And I must say that I went with the official, you know, designation, and I should have included the repatriates as a 17th, yes. >> Edward Miner: Another audience member asks, my mother's family is Vai, [phonetic] is there any evidence that the Vai people participated in the slave trade? >> Carl Patrick Burrowes: Well, that, again, very interesting question. So what I would say is that members of just about every ethnic group along the coast of West Africa participated in the slave trade. But that participation was not unidirectional. And again, I caution the audience from extending responsibility, blame, et cetera, for the actions of some, you know, kidnappers and slave sellers to all members of their ethnic group. But yeah, Cape Mount, where the Vai are located, was an embarkation point for large numbers of captives who ended up in the Americas in enslavement. But the truth of the matter is oftentimes, people will, in West Africa, characterize the Mandingoes as having played a critical role in the slave trade or the Fula, another large ethnic group. In reality, both of those groups are extremely large because they were at the center of major empires. When one looks at those the ethnicity of people who were brought to the Americas, you find that the Mandingoes and the Fula were also highly represented. They were among the top 10 ethnic groups exported. So you had individuals who were engaged in the traffic from both of those groups. But then you also had people who ended up victimized, who were taken from those groups. And I think a classic example of this would be the subject of a book called A Prince Among Slaves. And that is Abdulrahman Ibn Ibrahim Sori. He was a Fula prince. And at the time, the Fula empire was engaged in the slave trade, or some of the officials were. And he ended up being captured and spent decades enslaved in Mississippi. When he finally was emancipated, he made his way to Liberia with his wife and some of his children. But he died shortly after. >> Edward Miner: An interesting follow-on to this last question is this, what are the prospects for the re-interpretation of Liberian history through the lens of current developments in West African historical research? In other words, does situating the Liberian experience in the broader West African context help with rounding out the fuller-lived experiences of Liberian -- of various Liberian people, societies, cultures, and so forth? >> Carl Patrick Burrowes: I would argue that one needs to be careful about fitting the Liberian reality into frameworks derived from the rest of the region or from what has been the case before of the U.S. experience. It is really important for Liberians to try and recapture the uniqueness of the Liberian experience while recognizing that, you know, there were sources of influence from several other places. But together, those make the Liberian experience particularly rich and unique. So let me give you just one example. I did a book called Between the Kola Forest and the Salty Sea: A History of the Librarian People Before 1800. And what I came to find, in the course of my research, is that the people of Liberia were, in many ways, anti-empire. They were committed to a very decentralized form of governance based in part on the experiences of having lived on the margin of Sahelian empires. As those Sahelian empires were developing and growing, they were engaged in the trafficking of Africans across the Sahara. And people living on the periphery of the empire were being victimized. In addition, the empires, the rulers of those empires and the merchants had converted to Islam. And traditional African beliefs in, you know, religious practices were being marginalized. So those on the periphery moved south. And many of the groups living in Liberia today trace their ancestry to the area around Mali. This is documented in the oral traditions. So the Vai were mentioned earlier, also came from Mali, the area of Mali. So they came to the forest belt, seeking to preserve African traditional religious practices and theology known as the way of the ancestors [phonetic] and also to escape, you know, the possibility of being kidnapped and sold across the Sahara. So you have a experience in the forest of highly decentralized governing structures that contrasts dramatically from the empires of the Sahel, or the Ashanti, or the Yoruba, et cetera. One needs to focus on the experience of the particular environment that's being studied. >> Edward Miner: Thank you, Dr. Burrowes. Here's another question. There is so much history here that many likely do not know. Is this history being taught to Liberian school children? >> Carl Patrick Burrowes: No. So like history is not a part of the curriculum in Liberia, unfortunately. And what makes the situation worse is that because of the almost two decades of civil war in Liberia, institutions were destroyed. Schools, you know, were not operating as they should have been. You didn't have history being portrayed through the media, television, radio, none of that. And the result is that there's a vacuum as far as historical knowledge is concerned. And that's one of the reason you have so many myths sort of circulating among Liberians. >> Edward Miner: Sorry. Another audience member asks, Dr. Burrowes, can you speak about the document you discovered recently that shed light on the sale of land that became Monrovia? >> Carl Patrick Burrowes: Oh, thank you for that question. So there was a purchase agreement executed by Dr. Eli Ayers, who was Agent of the American Colonization Society, and Captain Robert Stockton of the U.S. Navy, along with six local rulers of the area around Cape Mesurado, the area now the site of Monrovia. So that document relates to a tract of land upon, you know, the top of the Cape, in particular. And the document went missing in the 1830s. The American Colonization Society, at that point, about 10 years after the agreement was signed, decided it would compile the separate treaties it had, you know, executed with local rulers. And when they went looking, the original document, the first purchase agreement, was missing. So since the 1830s, it hadn't been seen. Historians hadn't been able to cite it as a primary document. People relied on the text as published in newspapers at the time, the text of the agreement. But I'd spent so much time at the Library of Congress, including in the Manuscript Division with the ACS Papers and so on, that as I was writing about the founding, I began to think about where that document might have ended up. I wanted to use the primary source if I could find it. And I knew that there were three lawyers who volunteered to work with the ACS. Oftentimes legal matters were passed over to them as a kind of subcommittee of the board. And so I went tracking down the papers of those individuals. One is relatively obscure, and it didn't seem like there were any preserved documents from, you know, his law practice or anything of that sort. But then there was Francis Scott Key, and his legal papers are in the Maryland area. So I went looking. Fortunately, the Maryland Center for History and Culture was open during a period of the pandemic. Went through his legal papers. They weren't there. The last person that I needed to track down was the Secretary of the ACS. And he was Elias Caldwell. And long story short, searching for the papers of Elias Caldwell, I found them in the papers of Justice Bushrod Washington. So Caldwell had acted as Clerk to Bushrod Washington. He died in the period where this document went missing. And it turned out that he had documents related to the ACS in his Supreme Court office. And they seem to have been tucked away with the papers of Justice Washington. So that's how I found that document. >> Edward Miner: Intriguing. Dr. Burrowes, another audience member asks, what roles do these five myths you've outlined have on influencing the present situation of people coming to move permanently to a nation such as Liberia? A number in the diaspora are espousing a new Back-to-Africa movement, which is at an all-time high now with the outreach from Ghana. >> Carl Patrick Burrowes: Well, from what I've seen, those who have expressed an interest, you know, to return have focused on Ghana very heavily because the invitation, you know, was extended from the government of that country. And there are other African countries that have been making, you know, such overtures. But I think as long as those ways of imagining Liberia, of seeing Liberia remain entrenched. Liberia doesn't carry the same degree of attractiveness for people in the diaspora, you know, as other places do. I think before Liberians can consider the possibility of others coming in to join, there are a number of lingering questions and issues, challenges from the civil war that needs to be resolved. So there's a need, you know, for some inward thinking and work. Who are we? We need to answer the basic questions of the humanities. Who are we? You know, where did we come from in order to understand where we're headed. If we don't settle those issues and we start suggesting, you know, that others come into the picture, they're entering into a state of confusion. >> Edward Miner: Here's a very currently focused question from the audience. How do you see these myths influencing the U.S.'s diplomatic relationship with Liberia? >> Carl Patrick Burrowes: Well, what I will say to you is that -- I have an example at the top of my head. It doesn't relate to the myths per se. But when I explain what I'm talking about, you perhaps will understand why I'm citing it. Very recently, the U.S. House of Representatives passed a resolution relating to Liberia. And the bulk of the text references Liberia's history and the relationship, you know, that has existed for 200 years between the U.S. and Liberia. And in that text, the resolution refers to January 6th, I believe, as the date when the African Americans landed in the area of Monrovia. That's something that's been repeated. It's circulated widely, but it's not true. And it hasn't been investigated. The House, in drafting the resolution, relied, I would believe, on sources, you know, collected by the State Department. And the State Department, in turn, relied on the work of historians or, you know, scholars who haven't done the necessary spadework. And the result is that we have these notions that are often repeated that just aren't accurate. Now that's not one of the five myths that I mentioned, right, the myth about when the African Americans landed. But it just illustrates the fact that there's so many of these assertions that are accepted as truths that haven't been examined. And there needs to be a much more careful, you know, study of the Liberian story. >> Laverne Page: I should interject here and say that we thank you, Dr. Burrowes, for being here today and for telling us about so much. We have additional questions in the queue, but we're running short of time, and we can't get to them. So we are encouraging our audience to send their questions directly to you or to send them to us through our Ask A Librarian service. We would welcome that. We want to thank everyone for coming. And thank you for your questions that we have received today. This is just extremely enlightening. There is also a question about whether or not this is recorded or when the recording is going to be available. The turnaround time now should be something like at least two weeks, maybe three at the very, very most. And so you could also submit that to Ask A Librarian. And the moment that the video is up, we could respond and send you the link. So, thank you so much for coming, Dr. Burrowes, and thank you, our audience. And you've had a very good audience today. So anyway, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. >> Carl Patrick Burrowes: It's been my pleasure. >> Laverne Page: Any closing words? >> Carl Patrick Burrowes: No, I just -- >> Laverne Page: Or you said [inaudible]. >> Carl Patrick Burrowes: Yeah, I really appreciate it, you know, the homecoming. And I wish, you know, there had been turkey and other trimmings on the table. Appreciate the invitation. >> Laverne Page: Okay. Well, thank you. And until the next time. So I'll say goodbye for now. >> Carl Patrick Burrowes: Bye now. >> Laverne Page: Thank you. Okay. Goodbye.