>> Austin Ferraro: Welcome
to the Library of Congress
and National Book Festival.
Now again in person.
We are very, very
excited to be back here
and I am personally very
excited to introduce you
to our three lovely authors.
We're going to be chatting
with for the next hour or so.
So we have Chloe Gong,
who is going to bring us
to 1920 Shanghai with a
Realmo and Juliet retelling in
"These Violent Delights" and
the sequel, "These Violent Ends"
where their characters
biggest problem
is not the gang violence,
it's the part where people
are ripping their throats out,
just like in Mass.
It is exactly as
gory as it sounds.
If you are curious. Hi, Mom.
Then we have Namina Forna,
who's bringing us
these really awesome
almost immortals
with these amazing
magical powers.
And so, so, so many secrets.
Yes, it's great.
It's a West African
inspired fantasy.
And the first book is
"The Gilded Ones".
The second book is
"The Merciless Ones".
And then we have
Victoria Aveyard with this
super quirky fantasy
quest ensemble,
which has the most
weirdly shippable villains
I've read in a long time.
[audience laughing]
And those are "Realm Breaker"
and the sequel "Blade Breaker".
I am Austin Ferraro, I'm a teen
services librarian about
45 minutes west of D.C. Hello.
And I interned at the
Library of Congress while I was
getting my master's degree.
And up here
with me, we have Ava,
who is one of our Library of
Congress teen interns
from the summer.
And she is here all the way
from Indiana
to ask some questions
of our authors as well.
We could not do any of this
without our sponsors.
So a huge thank you to them.
There will be a
Q and A at the end
of this panel for all of you to
also have the chance to ask
some questions.
Our authors will be signing
books downstairs at 6 p.m.
Victoria will be in line three
and Namina will be online four
and Chloe will be in line five.
And then just to start us off,
how about you each give an
actual little bit about
yourself and the book and not
just my weird interpretation.
>> Chloe Gong:
Should I, should I start?
Well, first of all, Austin,
thank you.
And that was a great
interpretation.
So I think you did
the job great.
But hello, everyone.
My name is Chloe Gong,
and "Our Violent
Ends" is a gory,
monster throat ripping sequel.
But for anyone who doesn't
know, it is a Romeo and Juliet
retelling set in 1920 Shanghai.
It follows the two rival heirs
of gangs at a war, who have to
work together on a monster rise
in their city and starts killing
a lot of people in gory ways.
>> Namina Forna: Hi everyone.
My name is Namina Forna.
I am the author of "The Gilded
Ones and its sequel,
"The Merciless Ones".
It's really hard to pitch "The
Merciless Ones" without telling
you all what "The
Gilded Ones" is about.
So basically "The Gilded Ones".
It is a white fantasy set in a
deeply patriarchal world where
there is a group of girls who
are considered monsters. Because
they're faster and stronger
than regular people and they
bleed gold. But then actual
monsters come into this world
and the girls are given
a choice, fight or die.
My main character, Deka,
decides to fight and in doing so
goes on an adventure that
changes her life.
And in book two, I don't know
how to pitch this one.
I'm not even going
to lie like so.
In book two, Deka learns
who she's supposed
to be fighting for.
She thinks, and starts
fighting for them, only to
discover that there are more
monsters and more villains that
she didn't know about. And
that's just that's as well as
I can pitch it. I tried
y'all. I really did.
>> Victoria Aveyard:
Hi, my name is Victoria Aveyard.
I am the author of "The Realm
Breaker" series, which is my
new series. I like to pitch that
trilogy as "Lord of the Rings"
meets "Guardians of the Galaxy".
I very much wrote it because
I was a "Lord of the Rings" nerd
growing up and loved that story
so much, but didn't feel like
it had a place for me.
You know, there's no, there's no
teenage girls in the fellowship
of the ring. There's no one
who's not a straight white guy
who's not in the fellowship of
the ring.
So after my first series
"Red Queen "
and I was deciding what
do I want to write next,
I was like, I love this so much.
And I wanted to read something
like this that had me in it.
And now I'm in a position
where I can maybe write it.
So that's what
"Realm Breaker" became.
And then my first series,
"Red Queen", I like to say, is
"The Hunger Games meets "Game of
Thrones" meets "X-Men".
So if there's something in
there that you like,
you'll probably
like "Red Queen".
It's also heavily inspired by
Pokémon, which I feel like
I can now say without shame.
[laughs]
>> Austin Ferraro:
Awesome. Thank you all.
>> Victoria Aveyard:
Thank you.
>> Austin Ferraro: So I'm going
to since this is a panel
about sequels,
going to ask you all,
at what point in
your writing process,
your story development process,
did you decide that
you really needed
more than one book? Was that
always the plan or was that
something that you were like,
"Oh, this is very long and needs
to be two books now?"
>> Victoria Aveyard:
Immediately,
I guess I'm a really
greedy reader and I am
also a greedy writer, and
I want to tell a big story
in a big world, but I'm very
envious of people who can write,
trilogies or standalones, and
I'm hoping I get to do
that in the future.
>> Namina Forna:
It was the same for me.
Like immediately as I got the
concept for "The Gilded Ones",
I was like, "Oh, this is a
trilogy. Because for me, like
when I write, I tend to think
of like my books as, like thesis
statements. And so, like, each,
each part of it is like a part
of the thesis, and you need to
read all three
to sort of
actually get the point.
Like if you stop at book one,
you sort of didn't.
Although I do like to I do like
to end it sort of on a
definitive note at book one.
So like if you didn't like it,
you can stop there.
But if you did like
it, it's three books.
>> Victoria Aveyard: I'm cheap.
I always end on a cliffhanger.
[audience laughing]
>> Namina Forna: I see.
This is why I decided
to stop at book one.
Because it is people like you.
It is people like you.
[all laughing]
Because then I have to read it
all at once and I can't stop it
one. So like, I was like,
that's why I did it that way.
It's people like you, I hope,
you know.
>> Austin Ferraro: I mean,
big shout-out to Chloe
for managing to end a
duology on a cliffhanger.
>> Chloe Gong: Yeah, you know,
I said two books we're done.
And then it's a spin-off.
So you buy it anyway.
>> Austin Ferraro:
You're so smart.
>> Chloe Gong:
Yeah.
I have a bit more of an
unconventional answer when it
comes to knowing when
to give book to end.
Because "These Violent Delights"
was originally just one book.
And then after we sold it, my
editor said, 'So you rush
at least five
subplots at the end."
And I was like, "Yeah, you're
right." And she was like,
"Okay, well, why don't
we turn it into a duology?
And that gives you room to
actually develop the ideas that
you've started developing here."
Because you know how books are
the first drafts and like the
later drafts, like the fifth,
sixth drafts sometimes are kind
of getting where it's at, but
it's not quite at
final product yet.
I think "These Violent Delights"
and "Our Violent Ends",
final product was a duology and
it took me time to actually
realize it and stumble onto it
and realize, oh, what I'm
actually doing here is telling
a story where the two
main protagonists have
their roles flipped.
So in book one, there's one
person lying to another one and
a book two. What's that saying?
The shoes are swapped,
the tables are turned.
Yeah. How the turntables.
Right. That's my, that's my
book two thesis statement
how the turntables.
So I kind of--
>> Namina Forna:
I could use that from now on.
>> Chloe Gong: Okay, good.
I'm glad to offer that.
Yeah. The sequel for me was
kind of like, okay, now,
now the story is
really finding itself,
but it took a lot of editing and
it took a lot of discussions
with my editor too.
>> Ava Luo: As a follow-up
on that question,
which book was
harder for you guys
to write the sequel
or the very first book?
>> Victoria Aveyard:
That's interesting, because
usually the first book,
especially if it's
your first book,
is written in a vacuum
and you don't have a publisher,
you don't have readers,
you don't have deadlines. It's
just you have no guarantees,
but you're writing for
yourself for the most part.
And so for me, the hardest book
I've ever written was the Second
"Red Queen" book, because that
was the first book I was writing
within the infrastructure of
being a professional writer.
And that's really, really
difficult because you suddenly
have voices that are also in
your head that aren't your own,
which to be fair, we kind of
all have that.
But you have readers, you have
an editor, you have a deadline,
you have a schedule, you have
all these other things that are
not necessarily conducive to
good creative work, but you're
trying to get a book out on
time. So I really struggled with
getting around that balance,
and it took several books to
realize, okay, there's a whole
another part of this job
that you didn't realize existed.
So for me, the second one is
always the hardest.
>> Namina Forna: Let me
tell y'all like when I was
writing book one, I
was writing Clickbait,
I was working,
writing, Clickbait, and
our boss at the time
was like, "Guess what?
We're going to lay all of you
guys off in a month and we're
going to switch you all to like
freelancers, right?"
So I had a ticking clock of one
month, and so I'd like told my
agent at the time, she's like,
"How long will it take you
to get me this book?" I was
like, "Give me two months."
I wrote that book in
a month and a half.
Like literally, I was waking up
at like 4:00 or 5 a.m.
writing ten pages before work,
like writing 30 pages on the
weekends to get this book done,
because I had, you know, poverty
like at the end of the thing.
And then came book two, and all
of a sudden I could not write.
Like book two was
such a struggle.
Like, I was just like, I don't
know how I'm going to do this.
It was, it was awful.
And then now I'm
writing book three.
[panelists laugh]
So I guess what
I'm trying to say is
book one is always the best.
>> Chloe Gong: I'm also in the
book three problem child club,
but I had a miracle book two.
Like that was the easy,
sometimes
I describe my books as kids, and
when I say that, like book one
was a really difficult birth.
Book two just slid out of the
canal so easily.
>> Namina Forna: I hate you.
>> Chloe Gong: But the reason
why that was the case
was because since it was
originally a duology,
I actually had
the whole skeleton
there already, so I knew
exactly how it was going to end.
I knew where the climax was.
I just had to fill in the dots.
And on top of that, I wrote the
entirety of book two during
April of 2020, and we all
remember that being the toughest
COVID time. But for me,
I'm from New Zealand.
You can hear it probably.
What happened was I was in
junior year of college and they
kicked all international
students out, so I got kicked
home and for those few months I
had nothing to do except stay at
home and write. Because New
Zealand had an incredibly
strict quarantining
thing. Right.
And literally the only thing
that was like my saving grace
from like the world outside,
from the news, from everything,
was to sit on my couch
and just write this book.
And it was like my joy every
day, which is why it was like my
miracle thing that
I was creating.
That was like pulling me away
from like the actual things to
worry about, right? So but then
once we go to book three, I was
like, I can't write. I don't
know how to write anymore.
But that turned
out fine as well.
It was just a tough birth.
[all laugh]
>> Victoria Aveyard: It's really
comforting to know that
all of us, every single
time we start a book,
think I don't know
how to write a book.
>> Namina Forna: Yeah.
>> Chloe Gong: Yeah.
>> Victoria Aveyard: You wish
you had left yourself notes.
>> Chloe Gong: Because all these
books turn out differently
and it's like, why can't you
just have the same process.
>> Victoria Aveyard: That's for
James Patterson and no one else.
[all laugh]
>> Victoria Aveyard: Is he here?
[all laugh]
>> Namina Forna: I literally
call people crying, being like,
"I think I've lost it. I don't
know how to write what happened?
Like, did I know
how to write before?"
>> Victoria Aveyard:
That's our imposter syndrome.
Like the terror that we all
feel that like this has all been
accidental, that someone's
going to figure out we aren't
actually good at this
and kick us to the curb.
>> Chloe Gong:
You start wondering
if the earlier
books were flukes.
It's like, "Oh, did I actually
just accidentally write
150,000 words? Maybe."
>> Namina Forna:
I'm still wondering that.
But I'm like two weeks
from deadline, so, you know.
>> Chloe Gong:
Wait, me too.
>> Namina Forna: You can't oh.
>> Chloe Gong: Oh.
[all laugh]
>> Victoria Aveyard:
What are you doing here?
[all laugh]
>> Namina Forna:
Delay, blah, blah.
You're like, "This is how I'm
going to get through it."
Like, I'm gonna be here and
then go back and then
somehow, somehow.
>> Chloe Gong: Well, I'm going
to need help from you guys
because I'm on deadline
for book four, which is.
>> Namina Forna:
I can't help, you.
[all laugh]
>> Chloe Gong:
Damn it.
>> Victoria Aveyard:
Don't take my energy, witch.
[all laugh]
But something like this is
actually really helpful to us as
writers, especially because
we're in the pandemic
still, but we're coming through
it and we didn't get to have
this kind of connection
with you,
the people we are
writing these books for.
So we did become those that
very much the stereotypical
writer, the mole person in our
rooms writing a book and sending
it away and never seeing it
land anywhere.
So getting to see our books
meet you and getting to meet you
with them is a really
gratifying because
it's something we got used to,
or Chloe's experiencing it
a little bit for
the first time now,
which is really exciting.
But thank you guys for showing
up for us because
we love to show up for you.
[audience clapping]
>> Namina Forna: Like literally
every time somebody says,
"I read your book
and I liked it,"
I like first I want
to like, fall over,
but then I'm like, "Wait a
second, that means I probably
should work on this instead of
watching anime maybe."
>> Victoria Aveyard: Or both.
>> Namina Forna:
At the same time.
>> Namina Forna: If I
could multitask, I'll do it.
>> Austin Ferraro: So I'm a
very character driven reader
because, I mean, like, I'm not,
I can't watch paint dry, right?
But I really like connecting
with characters.
I really like seeing characters
and going, "You are evil
and I dig it."
And all of you have characters
with just tremendous
amounts of growth, specifically
from the beginning of book one
and the end of book two.
And sometimes it's a little
backsliding and sometimes
that's more forward steps.
But could you take us through
the process a little bit of how
you sort of pace
that growth out?
So it's not like we
open book two and,
oh, is this the same character?
>> Victoria Aveyard: I think
the key is while you are
thinking of every novel
as a single story
contained in itself, I
always think of a series
of its own contained story, and
especially with "Realm Breaker",
because it's a trilogy,
I can really easily
break it down into Book One is
Act one, Book two is Act two,
Book three is Act three, and
then there are acts within each
of those. So it feels
like a continuous journey.
So yeah, you do get the readers
who don't get any closure at the
end of book one, maybe a little
bit, but then they go into book
two. I'm always a little shocked
when someone is like, "Well,
can I pick it up with book two?"
And I'm like, "No,
you cannot do that.
Why would you want to?"
But yeah, I think for me I have
to write chronologically.
I have to grow with the
characters and know where
they're going. There are people
who can write completely out of
order and that blows my mind.
That's some sort of alchemy I
do not understand because I have
to track the path with them,
and I think that's what makes
them feel as
natural as possible.
And you give them, you know,
flaws and beliefs and mistakes
that always helps connect
a reader to a character.
>> Chloe Gong: I love it
when the characters kind of
torture each other,
like within the book.
I like to think of it
not specifically as
what can I make the character
like grow and develop?
Like not what can I do,
what can they do to each other?
And the more I think about it
that way, the more things kind
of intertwine more and it
becomes more natural where
you're seeing different aspects
of a character because they're
different people interacting
with different characters.
And especially, I think for my
duology, because I had the kind
of two book like scale and
balance, I had this kind of like
general idea where, somewhere in
book one, I think it was like
around the last chapter,I wrote
the line like The Lover and the
Liar. And the moment I wrote
that down, I was like, Oh my
God, that's the that's the two
book like scale balance,
which meant like by the
time I swept to book two,
I was like, okay, how do we,
how do we, like, send them
all the way back to square one?
How do we start again?
But then see that this
character is still like someone
different. Because you've
already met them for a whole
book and they're lying to
themselves being like,
I'm this person,
I'm this person.
But you actually know
that that's not the case.
So I think the more, the more
complicated I can make
characters based on how they
decide to perceive themselves or
how like other characters are
treating them, the more fun
I'm having. And then I'm like,
Well, hopefully that means
a reader is kept
just as engaged.
>> Namina Forna:
So I think if I'm speaking
specifically in terms of
"The Gilded Ones trilogy",
what I wanted to do
with that book was
my stated purpose was to
examine what it means to grow up
in a patriarchy, you know, what
system supported, who sort of
wins, who sort of loses,
although everybody loses.
And so to do that, I had to do
this through the eyes of my main
character, Deka.
And initially when because I
wrote like the first draft of
the book, which I tossed out
entirely, I wrote it in 2012 and
like initially Deka was like a
Buffy the Vampire Slayer, like
already coming out the gate,
like, you know, slay monsters.
Ye very powerful.
But then when I went back in
2018 to write the book, like
I had to, like,
sit down with myself
and think, is
this a true person?
Is this an actual character?
Because like what I was
reacting to in writing this
trilogies that I'd grown up in
deeply patriarchal spaces, like
I grew up in Sierra Leone, West
Africa, which was one type of
patriarchy. And then I came
here to America and I grew up in
Georgia, which was another type
of patriarchy.
And what I found very
interesting was that, like
it was basically like all
shades of the same thing.
Only back then when I came,
America was more polite,
not anymore.
So when I was looking
at the character of Deka.
I was like, "All right, if you
have a girl who grows up in this
world and she's told, this is
the way things are, this is the
way that you as a person who is
female or femme presenting are
like, how does she interact?
What like what does she
question, Does she think?"
And like so I had to go through
this slow process with her of
just like opening her up
and like her learning how to
question. And then from there
her learning how to take action.
And so in every book you see,
the process of Deka's growth is
like her having to learn
what the actual question
that she needs to answer is.
And then when she
answers that question,
what does she need to do?
And that's how my
characters grow in the books.
>> Ava Luo: Speaking of
character growth and characters,
which character in your series
do you think is most like you?
For everyone. Of course.
>> Namina Forna: Now that
is an unkind question.
>> Chloe Gong: It is an
unkind question because
most times we have to
give our characters flaws.
And oftentimes big flaws
that make up the crux
of themselves. So then when we
answer this question, we're like
admitting, yeah, so deep down,
that's--that's who I am.
>> Namina Forna: You want us to
expose ourselves on the stage.
Thank you for like, yeah,
expanding.
>> Victoria Aveyard:
I'm most like Corinne.
[all laugh]
But also, I think all
of our characters
have a piece of
ourselves in them.
That's how we understand them
and how we're able to write them
as close to as truthfully as we
can, as realistically as we can,
because we need to give them
a little piece of ourselves,
whether it's a big piece
or a little piece.
Even the worst villains.
We have to find something to
hook into to connect ourselves
so that we can tell them
truthfully.
So yeah, the worst villains
have a little bit of me, and
the best heroes have
a little bit of me.
And I pretty much write great
characters, and I think there's
a lot of like giving a
character something you wish you
had in yourself while also
giving a character something
you're really glad you don't
have or something you wish you
could be. That's not so nice,
but it would be cool to be
that kind of person.
No, you're good.
>> Namina Forna:
I think for me,
I most relate to three
characters. A three.
To me, main characters is Deka,
Britta and Belcalis, right?
So with Deka I relate to her in
that like when I was growing up,
I had all these questions that
every time I asked, people would
shut me down, like, why must
you always cause problems?
Why must you ask all these
questions about, like, what it
means to be a girl? Da-da-da.
Stop asking questions?
And so like a part of like, so
what I did in response to that
was I just shut down
and I stopped asking.
And it was only when I went to
college and I discovered women's
studies classes that I was
like, "Wait a second, this is a
system. I have been bamboozled."
And that is the reason why
I wrote the book. But like so
just that I think the quietness
and timidity of Deka towards
the beginning and then learning
how to be her authentic self,
that was a journey
that I had to go on.
And then with Belcalis, I feel
like she externalizes this
rage that I wish
that I could, right.
So, like for me, like she's
somebody that I look up to and
that the rage that I had
inside, she had outside
and I was like,
"There, that's her."
And then Britta like, I think
like I'm the most loyal friend.
I really am. And like, just how
Britta is like down for her
friends and like,
we'll go to the end.
So I do that too. So that's why
I wrote Britta because I'm like,
"Everybody needs a friend like
Britta, like, so yeah."
>> Chloe Gong:
I really like the,
this concept of how
every character we create
will carry a part of ourselves.
I think it's the truest way
that I've seen myself
in my character-creation
process.
It's always that I'll kind of
take a archetype.
I'm kind of trying to drift
near for the purpose of the
story. Like if the story is
about someone kind of growing
out from their past, like what
kind of like grumpiness, iciness
do they need? And then I kind
of like put a part of myself
in it so that I know, like as
I'm creating this person, like,
oh, this is going to be a real
person because there's a part of
me in that. How can
that not be real?
Right? So for characters like
Juliet, a lot of her is she
she's who I want to be like,
she'll just say things because
she has that power to say it.
And I think in like ordinary
life, most of us are not going
to go upsetting
people that often.
But then she'll have certain
parts of like my dry humor that
I'm kind of just like I'm
putting, I'm putting that in
there. Because as you read
these lines, like I hope readers
are being like, "Oh, haha.
Like, I can imagine a real
person saying that."
But then for other characters
like Benedict, just being
anxious all the time,
that's just me.
It's just, I'm just putting
myself on there or just,
I guess, like character
monologues, observations.
They have chunks of who I am,
but it's so hard to just point
to one and be like,
"There's me."
>> Austin Ferraro: So I like the
bringing up of the
concept of anger.
So there is a point
in "The Gilded Ones"
where there's a character
who says,
"Anger is what alerts us
to what needs to change."
And I think that all
three of you have written some
very angry, very ambitious,
occasionally very stabby
heroines into your books, and I
wanted to know what it was like
writing such powerfully
motivated characters that really
just like leap off the page
and are just very like there.
>> Chloe Gong:
First of all, thank you.
[all laugh]
I really wanted to write like
a stabby, powerful heroine.
I think not only because it's
just like something I really
love reading, but also because
I wanted that kind of like
character existing
out there, right?
Because I had grown up reading.
Why I so often, I just
loved these stabby heroines.
And then I wanted that exactly
for my book, just like a Chinese
girl. Because so often, like in
media, we're just we're casting
like Asians as just like, either
quiet or like Dragon lady.
And I'm like, I want this
mixture that feels true to life.
So I created Juliet to kind of
have that, like ambition and
that like badassery, but as a
three-dimensional person.
But then it's also hard because
in writing historical, I'm so
aware of the whole time that
I'm doing like historical
fantasy, I'm doing speculative,
but this was a real-time, and
these people were suffering
like real pain throughout
history of like having imperial
powers. And having to negotiate
that and reconcile with your
level of privilege in a system
that's kind of constantly being
like, we're going to take this,
and you can't really do
anything about it unless you
want to like walk away from
this whole thing.
So it's--it's one of those
things where I want to tell my
story of itself, but I'm also
trying to stay as true to the
kind of like energy and
mentality of the people who are
existing back then and adding
my own like culture and what
I've heard out of the stories
my family has told me,
putting that all together.
>> Namina Forna:
Um, let's see.
I think that for me, I was
inspired very much growing up
by "Buffy the Vampire Slayer".
I love that.
And so, like, I wanted to create
heroines that were like that.
And the other thing I was
tangentially inspired by was
"300," because like when it
first came out, it was like
all these, like, dudes
with swords or whatever.
I watched it recently and that
that movie is Wow, Who, that?
Yes. But I wanted to see, like,
the feeling that I felt in the
theaters initially not knowing
any better like that.
Now, when I watch it,
I feel a different thing.
But like initially I wanted to
have that feeling with girls
because I'd never seen that on
the screen before.
I'd never seen that on the
screen, I'd never really seen it
in a book. So I was like, I
want to have that girl power.
And so it was like, honestly,
I just felt delighted writing,
like writing it,
like the stabious
parts were like my favorite
parts. I'm like, "Yes. And then
she's going to murder this
person this way and it's going
to be great and she's going to."
Like I was having the time
of my life, and it was only
recently. So I saw like the
screenplay for like, I have like
another writer rewriting the
screenplay for the movie.
And they rewrote some scenes
that I'd written in the book.
And I looked at it and I was
like, "We need to tone down this
violence. This is too much
like, I need you to pull back
because I am shocked and
appalled by this violence."
I didn't realize how that felt.
>> Victoria Aveyard:
They'll fix it in editing.
[all laugh]
Yes. So I went from "Red Queen",
where almost all of
the female characters
are physically very,
very capable and strong and
stabby, quite literally stabby.
And I knew coming into "Realm
Breaker", I wanted to show
the spectrum of what
strong female characters are
and that it is not just
about physical strength.
So I have characters who are
not stabby, who learned to be
stabby and who are stabby from
the get-go and I sort of imbued
all of them, though, with that
same feminine rage that I think
a lot of us feel, especially
right now that we carry with us.
And I really examine that most
thoroughly through the character
Erida, who I'm not going to
spoil anything, but she was very
much a character I was excited
to show the journey of, and when
I realized I needed her POV in
"Realm Breaker", that sort of
cracked open the story for me
when I figured out I was going
to be telling part of the story
from her eyes. Because she is
a very, very powerful woman,
a queen of a country.
She's 19 years old, has been
queen for several years, and is
completely limited by the fact
that she is a woman and nothing
else. And so she has all of
this power, but also
is so neutered by her own gender
and held back by it
and has all of
this anger and rage.
And I knew I wanted to track
the way that's going to
change her and the things she's
going to do with the audience
following every step. And
knowing that the audience
is going to be like,
"That's wrong.
But like also, I get it
and I want you to do that.
But you're the bad guy,
but you're not really,
but you kind of are."
Because I love following
the villains and I love
kind of shredding them
apart so we can see the heart
at the middle of them, and
kind of say, "Well, I get it,
you're not wrong, but you're
also kind of wrong in this."
And tracking her journey
through "Blade Breaker",
where she starts
to get a little stabby
was really, really fun for me.
And that was a moment that kind
of stood out of like, this is
her totally embracing
who she has become.
And hopefully people enjoy that
but are also like yeh.
>> Austin Ferraro: I was very
excited to see more of her
POV in "Blade Breaker". That
was, that made me very happy.
>> Austin Ferraro: And kind of
like on the topic of characters
who appear a little bit more in
"Blade Breaker".
Starting with you. But like
all of you, this applies to
there are characters
in your books
who are not what they seem
to be, and in some cases
I still don't have any
idea who they are, but I'm
interested in finding out
eventually.
So can you talk about
what the most fun part of
knowing stuff we don't is?
[audience chuckling]
>> Victoria Aveyard:
I love I think all storytelling
is just us manipulating you.
We're getting you to
care about things
that don't exist,
and that is completely
manipulation. So that's very
much my favorite part is
manipulating the audience.
Feinting left, feinting right,
knowing you're going to hate
this person and I'm going to
make you love them by the end of
the series, or
you're going to be
totally on this person's side.
And then by 90% through
the book, I'm going to twist and
then you're going to figure out
they've been the bad
guy this whole time.
I love doing that to you.
That's always my drive.
That's always where
I'm coming from
in terms of very aware of my
audience and very aware of
how much I want
to mess with you.
And I think it's because. Other
authors have messed with me.
So that's just me passing on
the pain of that.
And hopefully you pass that
pain on to somebody else.
>> Chloe Gong:
No, that's exactly it.
I remember exactly where I read
the Maven chapter.
I exact I remember
what I was doing that day.
Yeah. So it's, I love plot
twists, you know, And I think
I love plot twists because of
that rush that I get when I'm
reading another book. And I'm
like, 'Oh my God, how did I not
see this coming?" But also, why
does that make so much sense?
I think when I'm trying to
write like my character reveals
or my character like, you know,
things aren't what they seem.
I want that gasp moment, but I
also want it to make sense.
So at least with
"These Violent Delights"
and "Our Violent Ends", there
are some big plot twists that I
don't think they're as shocking.
They're like plot twists in the
sense that like, oh, okay, well,
all right, that makes sense.
In the spinoff, there is a plot
twist involving a character
being someone that you don't
expect them to be,
as the question indicated to.
And I'm really excited for
people to read that.
It's kind of related to this
panel still, because a spinoff
is still a sequel.
So I'm excited for that.
I'm keeping vague because
I don't want to spoil it.
That defeats the
whole plot twist.
>> Namina Forna: So I love
morally grey characters.
I tend to think that nobody
just one way or the other.
Everybody has like
shades of grey.
But for me the most fascinating
characters are the ones
that you actively fear, right?
Like, and you think like this
person is just like,
really, really messed up.
And then you start to, like,
examine their psychology and see
why they are the way they are.
And that for me, is what
actually delivers the best
plot twist, right? Because
you come in thinking that
this person is this
way and you hate them
because they're this way, but
then you learn their
circumstances, which then like
sort of comes at you sideways.
I'm not sure what the saying is.
I lost the saying.
>> Victoria Aveyard: You got it.
>> Namina Forna: I got it.
>> Victoria Aveyard: You got it.
>> Namina Forna: Got it.
Okay. It comes at you sideways.
And then all of a sudden you've
you've seen this person in a
different light. But not only
that, you're viewing the story
in a different light. And that
for me is like my favorite thing
to do. Like my one of my
favorite characters in
"The Gilded Ones"
is white hands.
Because until you finish the
end of the trilogy, you really
don't have an understanding of
who this person actually is.
And that is what makes
it so fascinating.
>> Austin Ferraro: That may
or may not be the character who
spawned that question.
[laughs]
So I think you've all talked a
little bit about this, but just
to like kind of dig into it a
little bit deeper. You all have
very different settings for one
reason or another, and those
were obviously a very conscious
choice for your stories.
What can, what were you able
to do in those settings
that you don't
think you would have
been able to do in
a different setting?
>> Namina Forna: So I.
So I grew up in Sierra Leone,
West Africa, and my dad was like
an amateur historian.
He would always tell me,
like all these stories about,
like the walls of Benin.
He'd be like, "Namina, the walls
of Benin, where once they could
circle the island of
Great Britain 16 times.
You know, they were once four
times the Great Wall of China."
Like he would go on and on
about this or like, you know,
he'd go on and on about, like,
just all these ancient African
kingdoms. And like, at the
time, like my grandmother, like,
also used to tell me,
like, a lot of stories.
So, like I being a kid, thought
I thought that he was also just
telling stories. I'm like, "Oh,
papa, you know, like
you're telling me tall
tales, blah, blah."
Come to America.
Go to Spelman College,
which is in HBCU.
And I do a class called African
Diaspora in the world, which
one of the things that it does
is you have to learn the history
of the African diaspora
and you have to learn about
pre-colonial African
civilizations.
And I start reading these books
and what should I encounter?
But the walls of Benin, which
were indeed once four times the
Great Wall of China, which were
the largest earthworks
in the pre-mechanical age,
like everything
that my dad had said,
but I had never really known.
And even when he told me I
hadn't believed, even though
I grew up in West Africa, I am
of Nigerian descent, you know,
and I didn't like know any of
this stuff. Because that is all
history that has been rewritten
and overwritten so that like
every time you think about
ancient Africa or pre-colonial
Africa, you're like, "Oh, they
were all naked and like
living in huts," which
was not the case, right?
And so for me, when I thought
of "The Gilded Ones",
I immediately knew that I
wanted to place the story
in a fantastical African world.
I wanted to elevate it like the
same, like I wanted to feel
about ancient Africa the same
way I felt like, you know, those
shivers you get like when you
read a fantasy story and it's
like, oh my. Oh, I wanted that.
But I wanted it to be in
ancient Africa because I had
literally never seen it.
And even though my father had
told me and I'd read it and like
I had never seen it, and, and
you cannot imagine what it is
like to come from a place.
I mean. Well, I'm sure, like a
lot of you can. What it is to
come from a place where people
tell you that like you are less
than like the stuff that was in
your history is not there.
And so that's why for me, it
was so important to write that
book in that world and like,
that's why I like
"The Gilded Ones"
could exist in no other place.
Because while this book like
deals with trauma and the trauma
of being, you know, in a
patriarchy and all of these
things, the, the glory, the awe,
the beauty, the majesty,
the wonder comes
from the setting.
Like it comes from like the
moment, like you, you know,
you go into like,
I guess, Elmira
and you see the walls of Elmira
and you see all of these
things. That for me is like
the moment that
like, excites me.
Like it's the moment like, you
know, when you're watching Thor
and you see Asgard for the
first time, I wanted that
moment. And that is what
setting "The Gilded Ones"
in this world delivered for me.
It was having that awe
and that beautiful, beauty
and that majesty. So yeah.
>> Chloe Gong: That was such
a good answer, absolving me.
[audience applauding]
Okay. Do I have to follow it up?
>> Victoria Aveyard:
Would you like me to?
>> Chloe Gong:
You can go first.
>> Victoria Aveyard:
So, for "Realm Breaker",
I approached it with carrying
that with me of
"Lord of the Rings". Loved it.
Didn't see a place for me in it.
And also, I think we've all
sort of been pushing back.
And thankfully, fantasy has
expanded so much
in the last few years.
But we're seeing it now
with the "Lord of the
Rings" show coming out
where there are people
who are so, so hostile
to the idea of anyone who is not
white and not straight existing
in a classical, traditional
fantasy world.
So I approached "Realm Breaker"
with the idea of knowing that
the actual medieval
world, Europe,
North Africa, the Middle East,
was very interconnected
and extremely not one thing.
And if you're telling a story in
that world and trying to make it
look all like one thing,
it's inherently wrong and not
going to feel real. And we're
always approaching these
stories, wanting to make the
world feel real to you.
So that's what I went in with,
of knowing I was trying to tell
a story in a world based on
Europe, the North Africa and the
Middle East and trying to show
how big that place is. And how
people from all over the world
interconnected and intermingled.
And you have different
languages and trade routes and
different beliefs and different
cultures, and they all exist
in the classic
fantasy quest story.
So my goal was always just to
make space and make it feel like
everybody was a little bit more
welcome and a little bit more
able to be part of this story.
Because I hadn't read those kind
of books growing up, and I
always thought they rang
a little bit hollow
to me because
that wasn't the way
the world actually is.
>> Chloe Gong: When
I started writing
"These Violent Delights",
I had gone into it
with this idea that it was
going to be a love letter to
Shanghai. So even going into
the basic idea, right, it's
when I envision like what the
duology ultimately became like,
it's not divisible, like from
1920 Shanghai in the slightest.
I guess because I draw so much
of true history to even come up
with the plot of
like rival gangsters.
But it was I think my intention
going in was to capture this
time period and just capture
the city that is so familiar
to me. Because the reason why I
was aware of 1920 Shanghai is
this golden age anyway.
It's because my parents tell so
many stories about it
at the dinner table.
My parents, and then
like everyone up from them
then onward, have
been in Shanghai
for like, who knows how long.
And the way that I always
explain it is that people from
Shanghai are they feel the same
way about Shanghai as people
from New York feel about
being from New York.
It's that, it's that quality.
You know exactly what I'm
talking about. Right.
And I think the way that
they show me the city is so
unique, even within just
Chinese culture itself, because
Chinese culture is huge, right?
If you're from the north or
from the south, it's already
different. And then if you're
from specific cities, it's
really different. So they have
like this whole history of
Shanghai behind them.
And I went into it being like,
I already feel kind of like at a
distance from it because of
being like second generation
immigrant. Like I grew
up in New Zealand
and I just didn't
see enough of it.
And yet they had so much pride
about it that I wanted to kind
of capture this feeling of
loving a city and still feeling
as if you have been removed from
it and can't quite grasp at it.
So, so much of like
Juliet's kind of feelings about
how can I love the city and
fight for it and yet still feel
like an outsider? Is supposed to
be this like second generation
immigrant, Mira. Even though
technically she went outside for
education, it's not identical,
but I had written it wanting it
to resonate with other like
second-generation diaspora,
right? So that kind of setting
the 20 specifically, it kind of
had this like element to it
where I was like, I want
the world to see like how
beautiful a time like this
could have been, especially when
you imagine like the twenties.
So often we think of like the
Roaring Twenties in New York
and Chicago and
things like that.
But Shanghai was also one of
the like beating centers
of the world. And
then also to show that
it was so westernized
in a sense,
because like we forget
about that.
We forget about how global it
had already been going
at that time. And I just wanted
to bring that whole setting in
without shying away from
the darker areas, right?
There was so much imperialism,
so much like colonization.
And as we go into the thirties,
world wars are about to start
a lot of just pain,
so much pain.
And it was to tell a good story
about real human love and
relationships without shying
away from the actual ugly
atrocities. And being allowed to
exist in that kind of space,
which I think needed to be in
that kind of like sitting I knew
so well because of my own
family history and culture.
>> Ava Luo: So as a follow-up
question to the setting,
I think this is something
I've struggled with personally
and a lot of aspiring
writers have probably
struggled with at some
point in their lives.
How do you avoid telling,
instead of showing the reader
your fantasy worlds
in your novels?
>> Victoria Aveyard: Sometimes
you do just have to tell,
and that's okay.
I find it's best to just figure
out exactly what the audience
needs to know and tell them
that and nothing else, because
you don't want
to overwhelm them.
I definitely overwhelmed
readers in the first chapter of
"Realm Breaker" and I know that,
and I chose to do that because
I loved it. So it's definitely
a push-pull of like what I,
the author, want to do,
because if I want to write about
a tree for a page, my editor
will get rid of it later.
It's fine.
But yeah, it's about giving the
audience exactly what they need,
and nothing else in that moment.
And finding those little world
building pieces that it could
be a single word, but
it explains so much
more about the world.
Like the way that they curse.
Curse words are very indicative
of world-building.
What do they swear on?
What are their odes like?
What is their music like?
Those little pieces will inform
so much more and do much so much
heavy lifting for you without
you having to do
three paragraphs to explain.
>> Chloe Gong: I
guess, relatedly,
it's also about
intentionality sometimes,
so it's like deciding like,
okay, well, what I'm actually
trying to do here is
just to tell you that
you need to know
this, this and this.
And if I've gone into it, like
wanting a reader to just absorb
it as quickly as possible,
that's okay.
I think so. So often we get
paralyzed by writing rules
because you think, okay, well,
show don't tell is the ultimate
thing you need to hold up to
become a good writer, right?
But then sometimes you can,
you can go around the rules
if you've identified what it is
that it's trying to achieve.
It's trying to make sure that
the reader is getting your
world, that you're actually
capturing them into this
little thing you've created.
But as long as you think you're
achieving that in a different
way, like don't be afraid to
just tell it
and build the world that way.
>> Namina Forna: I used
to be like the worst, most
verbose writer, like
descriptive writer ever.
And then I went to film school.
And one of the things that film
school forces you to do and
screenwriting forces you to do
is that it forces you to deliver
in like maybe
three sentences max
exactly what it is
that you're seeing.
Right. And that takes like a
particular type of practice.
And so, like, for me, what I do
is like when I look at a
sentence, I'm like, exactly
what is it that I'm seeing?
I have three
sentences to do that.
Max Right.
And that was just an exercise
that I did initially
to force myself to be concise,
to be like, okay,
those three sentences
of description.
And then if I need to do more
description, what I'll do is
I'll thread it in like
the rest of the like in
the rest of the
action sentences.
And I'm not suggesting this for
like your entire writing career,
but I am saying that, like, if
you know that you are like
your descriptions are like this
long, this is like just an
exercise that forces
you to be concise.
And then from there you can see
how it's you can weave
through the rest of the stuff.
>> Victoria Aveyard: I'm
realizing. I think that's why
I gravitate towards YA.
And probably it as well is
because screenwriting
is so immediate
and so fast-paced.
And that's what YA is and
that's why we like it. Because
the stories are so immediate
and so page-turning that,
it's a natural thing. So
take a screenwriting class.
If you're an aspiring writer.
>> Namina Forna:
Yes. Read "Save the Cat".
>> Austin Ferraro:
Ava, do you have like
one last quick question
or should we turn it
over to the audience?
>> Ava Luo: I think. I
don't think I have any more.
>> Austin Ferraro: Okay.
So if you guys want to come up
to the microphone, we have time
for a couple of questions.
>> Victoria Aveyard:
You are ready.
>> Austin Ferraro: And if
you can just tell us your name
and then ask one question.
>> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE:
Hi, I'm Emma.
I wanted to ask you, you
touched on a little bit.
I think I've been reading YA
for most of my life.
But I think a shift
in the last few years.
What makes you all love writing
morally grey characters?
Because I feel like maybe in
the last like five years,
that's like a selling point.
There'll be like morally grey,
dark hair, love interest and
that. But what makes you love
writing that type of character?
>> Namina Forna:
I'll go first.
So I grew up in Sierra Leone,
West Africa,
during the civil war,
while at the beginning of it.
And what I found fascinating
was that people that I had known
all my life, people who seemed
like very nice people at the
drop of a hat, became very
monstrous people.
And when I was young,
I very quickly discovered
that like everybody
has a dark side.
It is a part of human nature.
And so I've always been drawn
to like looking at what do
people do when they
are under duress?
Because I understand like this
darkness, it is a part of us.
And that's why I'm always drawn
to the morally grey, because
I think it's very easy to point
and say this person is evil and
this person is good,
but it really doesn't
work out that way.
>> Victoria Aveyard: Yeah, and
to what Namina said earlier.
That's what real people are.
And especially we are writing
these fantastical worlds
in these incredible situations
that are kind of unbelievable.
So the most we can do to make
you believe it is to have the
believable characters and the
believable people in it, so
you have some sort of touchstone
to keep you grounded.
So yeah, morally
great characters
because that's what
real people are.
>> Chloe Gong: Yeah, exactly.
Echoing these two answers
because they're so good.
But I also think it, you know,
as you said, it seems to be
a recent thing, right? Like what
we're seeing all these
descriptions of like morally
gray characters, morally gray
love interests a lot
of the times, too.
And I almost wonder if it is
that they've always existed.
But I think recently we've
liked marketing it that way or
introducing them that way.
Because people are realizing
that a whole, a wholly good
character or a wholly heroic
character isn't one as
interesting or two as realistic.
Right? Because I think a few
years ago it's like, yes,
I believe in
goodness and heroism.
And then recently we're like,
well, the world is kind of
burning. So it's like it just
feels more realistic and it
feels like something that draws
people's attention faster.
>> Victoria Aveyard: And good
characters are hard to write.
Heroes are really hard to write.
It's hard to make
them interesting.
>> Namina Forna: I also think
in general, we're more cynical
and we learn more.
And because of the cynicism of
having, like gone through like
the Great Recession and 9/11
and all this stuff.
I think people are able
to handle nuance more
and that's why we want more
morally gray characters.
>> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE:
Thank you.
>> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE:
Hi, my name is Rachel.
There's been a big movement,
I think, especially in the last
couple of years, especially
with the introduction of
social media. But
TikTok and Book Talk,
and I know all of you are
on there, I follow you.
I love to hear kind of your
thoughts on kind of how
you're seeing a shift in either
the publishing industry
or even how you're
approaching your writing
and how you're
writing these sequels.
>> Namina Forna: Oh, God,
that's a whole on its own.
>> Chloe Gong: It truly is.
I think it's it's very
interesting to look at book talk
and its relationship with the
industry because it's so recent,
right? As someone who got onto
book talk in midway through
2020, I think I was the only
author there and Sarah Rush
was on there and that was it.
And then we got to that New
York Times article about how
book talk is moving sales and
suddenly, like, you know, it was
just like a gold rush. Like it
was like everyone's like, yeah,
I'm going to, I'm
going to use this.
And it's become
one of those things
where it has become
an integral part of publishing.
And we have all
these conversations about like,
what does this mean for the
books that we're writing?
What does this mean for like
the books that are publishing?
And a lot of times, at least
from my experience, you guys
could disagree if you think so,
but I don't think it affects
traditional publishing as much
because traditional publishing
is so slow. It takes like two
years in the pipeline.
By the time you've actually
written something for the
express purposes of like, "Hey,
TikTok, you should read this.
Because of that," it is gone.
It is old, right?
And then a lot of times I think
people fling that around as an
insult. They're like, "Oh,
you're just trying to appeal to
TikTok in the same way that
I think for a long time people
use YA as an insult like,
"Oh, you're just writing for
teenagers?" I feel a lot of
similarities in that.
And there's so much recent talk
about like, oh well TikTok
and it's focus on tropes is
ruining the industry.
And it's I don't know, it's so
complicated because tropes have
always been around.
Tropes are fun to use.
Obviously, like the extreme
commercialization of TikTok
is very bad, but I don't think
as many especially traditionally
published authors are being
affected in it in the way that
like the outcry is portraying.
But again, I would need 40 more
minutes to keep going.
But I think that's the gist of
what I'm seeing.
>> Victoria Aveyard: I
think the biggest change
on the traditional publishing
side has been the obligation,
or the expectation
that publishers may have
for authors to maintain
a TikTok situation.
And that has existed since
I'm going to date myself here.
My first book published
in 2015, and there was a lot of
conversation about
being good on Twitter.
And then it was being
good on Instagram
and now it's being
good on TikTok.
And ever since social media and
the platforms have sort of
arisen, there's always been a
pressure from publishers for
authors to be on social media,
to maintain a platform and to
kind of do a little bit extra
work that we don't necessarily
think we should be doing,
have the time to do,
or we're not good at
because we're not social
media managers or we're not,
you know, PR people.
So I understand the frustration
of a lot of authors feeling like
they have to be there.
My advice would be, be there if
you want to be there,
be there if you genuinely like
it, if you don't like it,
you're not going to make
content that people want.
You're not going to make
content that like does what you
want it to do, and it's just
going to be a waste of your time
anyways. So it's a little bit
of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
If you don't want to be there,
don't be there.
But I understand that
publishers are putting pressure
on authors to have a presence.
>> Namina Forna: I think
that they both covered it.
I'm an extreme introvert,
so like, yeah,
like I literally post and ghost.
Yeah, so you all got this.
>> Victoria Aveyard:
I do agree that I don't think
anyone's like rush this book out
in three months because of this
TikTok trending.
That's not happening.
And that sort of assumption has
been around for a long time
of like, oh,
vampires are hot now.
Write your vampire book.
No, your book is not gonna get
published for two years.
It's not going to happen. So it
just it's too slow to catch up
that way. But then marketing
a book that already exists.
Yeah, you're going to want to
market it to TikTok and do it
in a way that's going
to catch a TikTok vibe.
That's just good business.
That's just realistically how
the business works.
And unfortunately, the margins
in publishing are razor, razor
thin. So anything anybody can
do to keep the publishers afloat
and keep the bookstores open,
I'm not going to
be too mad at it.
>> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE:
Thank you.
>> Victoria Aveyard:
Yeah.
>> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE:
Hi, my name is Nicole.
I was just wondering if any of
you guys, like, had a certain
moment where you realized that
you wanted to be an author or
if, like, there was a moment
where you kind of thought about
going a different path.
>> Namina Forna: Oh, I'll go.
So I did not actually realize
that being an author
was a career.
Like, I had this idea
that authors were like these
nebulous rich people
who, like, lived in
cottages on the seaside
and like, you know, they had
like billowing white curtains
and like, they wore
flowing dresses.
>> Chloe Gong:
I think that had to me.
>> Namina Forna: Like,
like literally this was
what I thought it was.
And then Harry Potter came out
and I realized, wait a second,
this woman is doing a job.
And that was the moment when
I realized that it was possible
to actually have
a career as an author.
And I'd always been
the type of person
to tell stories in my head.
So I was like, "Wait a second,
if this person is making
a lot of money on books, I don't
know if I can make that money,
but I think I have what
it takes to be a writer."
And that was the moment
that I knew was possible.
>> Victoria Aveyard: I'd
always written fan fiction
growing up and that
was my writing outlet.
Thank you. You
will never find it.
[all laugh]
And that was my outlet because
I also thought, you know,
this isn't a career, this isn't
something you can pursue.
There's no like, it's not like
medical school.
It's not like you do this,
you do this, you do this,
and now you're a doctor.
That's not how it works.
So I didn't really think it was
something I could do.
It was something I just knew
I had to do in my free time
until I realized people went to
college to study film.
And I was like,
wow, I love movies,
I love cinema, I love TV.
>> Namina Forna:
I also didn't know that
you could go to film school.
>> Victoria Aveyard:
Yeah. I learned this.
I learned you could go
to film school because
I was a dorky teenager and I
was home on a Friday night.
And I watched the AFI, Lifetime
Achievement Award presentation
for George Lucas, and they had
a whole spiel about
the film school that he went to.
And I was like, "Wait,
you can do that?"
And then I went to
that film school.
>> Namina Forna: So do
you know, like literally,
like I'm African, so it's like
lawyer, doctor, engineer.
Those are your choices.
We already had a doctor
and I'm squeamish, right?
So it was lawyer and I didn't
have the math for engineering,
so it was law school.
So like, I literally got into
law school and every time
I thought about it, I would have
a panic attack
and want to vomit.
So I applied to film school
on the sly, got in
and like literally as I was
leaving, told my family
and by the way, I'm
going to film school bye.
[all laugh]
>> Victoria Aveyard:
I only got into my film schools.
I was like, "I have to go."
>> Chloe Gong:
I very similarly did not know
that you could be an author.
I was always writing
when I was a kid,
but it was just
one of these things
where I was like,
"Oh, this is my hobby."
You know? I do this on the side
to entertain myself, to have fun
and to post it. I did post my
original fiction online because
I got serotonin boosts every
time I got one comment.
>> Victoria Aveyard:
Because you had Wattpad.
We didn't have Wattpad.
>> Chloe Gong:
Yeah.
But it was it was one of those
things where I was just like,
well, this is just going to be
something I do for fun.
But then I, I think I was yeah,
I was just writing manuscript
after manuscript, and
I never revised it.
I think that's one of the
critical parts.
I had so much fun because I
never needed to fix it, right?
It was just existing.
But then I got the idea for
"These Violent Delights",
and that was also when, like,
YA had kind of finished
having its big boom or not.
YA is still booming.
No one boo me.
But like, you know, YA in
the 2010s was having like
it was everywhere, right?
Movie franchises, everywhere.
Everyone knew about young
adult fiction, which also meant
I was looking up
like these authors
and following them on Twitter.
And being like, huh, how do you
like kind of become
one of those people?
So when I got the idea
for "These Violent Delights"
I was like, I want to become
like one of these authors.
But I never imagined it could
be something that I did
just as a job, right? It was
always going to be like,
Oh, I'm going to do
writing books on the side
and then I'm going to do
my real adult career.
However, I graduated during
COVID and no one wanted to hire
non-Americans, so I kind of
accidentally stumbled into
actually being an author with
a capital A in the sense that,
like, that's all I do.
Authors with day jobs
are also authors.
Capital A's, don't get me
wrong, those, we love them,
but I kind of accidentally
took it on as a career and,
you know, it's really fun.
So I'm glad.
>> Victoria Aveyard: You'll
find most of us are accidental.
>> Chloe Gong: Yeah.
Like a real accident.
>> Victoria Aveyard:
Yeah. What?
>> MEMBER OF AUDIENCE:
Thank you.
>> Austin Ferraro:
All right, so, unfortunately,
we are out of time
for questions.
Oh. I'm so sorry,
but they will be
signing downstairs.
If you have a quick question,
then, and want your book signed.
So thank you all
very, very much.
[audience clapping]