>> Carolina Moratti: Hi.
Welcome to Share Your Foodways.
My name is Chef Carolina and
today I'm with Roman Kovbasniuk.
Hello. Welcome.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Hi.
Thank you for having me.
>> Carolina Moratti: Oh, my God.
We are so excited.
We're so happy to have you
in our kitchen today.
Mainly because I have to say,
you're a very young chef.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Yes. Yes.
>> Carolina Moratti:
And you are bringing tradition.
So how exciting is that?
I love the fact when young
people can bring traditions and
recipes from their backgrounds
and all of that.
And I know and I heard
that you are going to cook
something with us?
So simple but so traditional.
Tell me about it.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: So, again,
thank you for having me.
I am very happy to share my
traditions with you guys.
I'm Ukrainian, so I'm going to
be sharing a very simple,
very traditional recipe,
stuffed cabbage rolls.
>> Carolina Moratti: Here in
the city and Middlesex County,
we are familiar with
the Ukrainian community
because we have a
Ukrainian festival.
But I want to learn more
on your family side.
Tell me about your background.
Your family background.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: So my
family is entirely Ukrainian.
Both of my parents
are Ukrainian.
All of my grandparents
are Ukrainian,
my cousins, everything.
So in terms of the strength of
our culture, in our family
itself, like that's the only
culture we celebrate because
that's the only culture
we, we know.
Yeah. So in terms
of my background,
I'm not the first person
that was born here.
I'm the second person
after my mom.
But we've always been
very deeply connected
to the other Ukrainians here.
I'm coming from Morris County
up north and we have a very
large community up there,
probably very similar in size to
down here in Middlesex County,
simply because New
Jersey and New York
are really were Ukrainians,
are really thriving
in terms of immigration and
things like that,
like Ellis Island
and all of that.
That's, that was
a huge, huge space
for Ukrainians when
they first came here.
Back in the 20th century,
like the 1930s and forties.
To the point where we actually
have a Ukrainian village
in New York City, like
you have Little Italy,
you have Koreatown, and then
you have the Ukrainian village.
>> Carolina Moratti:
I'm learning something today.
I honestly didn't know that.
Thank you so much
for sharing that with us.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: There is--
wherever you look in
this area, you'll probably find
someone who either knows a
Ukrainian or is Ukrainian
themselves. For that reason,
stuffed cabbage rolls.
>> Carolina Moratti: Love it.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: In
Ukrainian we call them Holuby.
which basically just
means little doves.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Oh, that sounds--
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Very cute name.
We love our cute
names for our foods.
So as you can see,
based on our ingredients here,
not complicated.
So a couple of things
that we're going to do.
First is we have to make sure
that our cabbage, which is where
we're going to be stuffing today
and our rice are all together.
>> Carolina Moratti: So what do
we have for the recipe?
You say we have cabbage, we
have ground beef, rice, carrots,
mushrooms and onions and oil.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
And a little bit of garlic.
>> Carolina Moratti:
That's all we need?
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: That's it.
>> Carolina Moratti: That's amazing. 
Are you guys seeing us?
You have to make this recipe.
We can see that
it's very easy to make.
So can we start?
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Yeah, absolutely.
Let's get started. So the first
thing that we want to do
is we want to make sure that
we take the core
out of our cabbage.
So...
You have to have a really
sharp knife because
the core of a cabbage is
very thick, very thick.
So what I've actually done is
I've actually taken it out.
So as you can see,
the core is really deep.
But you want to make sure that
it's taken out because otherwise
the cabbage won't cook and it's
going to take a really long time
to get the recipe done. And we
don't want to waste any time.
We want to get this done so
that everybody can have
a great time at
the table eating.
So core doing it, you don't
have to get rid of it.
You can use it for other
things, other recipes.
So we keep this on the side.
>> Carolina Moratti:
So we make sure that
we're going to re-use it.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Absolutely.
Recycle is number one.
So this goes into a pot
of boiling water.
So we're going to
turn that on now.
So while that's, so actually
what you can do
if you want to save some
time so you don't have to
spend time waiting for the
water to boil, you can actually
put the cabbage
in while it's cold.
It'll soften up the leaves
a little bit faster.
So we're going to
go ahead and do that.
So you want to get the core
actually the inside.
You want to get that nice and
wet because you want. you want
the inside to get
nice and soft, too.
So we're going to put the lid
on that and let that cook.
>> Carolina Moratti:
For how long?
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
It takes about 10 minutes.
Just based on
the size of the pot
that you're going to be using.
Like this one will probably
be about 10 minutes.
The nice thing about cabbage
when you're cooking it
is that you'll know it's ready.
When the leaves start to come
off a little bit.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Yes, they start separating.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Exactly.
>> Carolina Moratti: Okay.
We'll make sure to check it out.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
That's step one.
Next step is make sure that
you want to wash your rice.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Oh, yes, of course.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
So rice is the second step.
Regarding what kind of rice?
It really doesn't make
much of a difference.
But for the recipe
just to make sure
that you have a nice tight fit
that everything glues together,
white rice is what
we traditionally go to.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Any brand because
you have a favorite brand.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Any brand, doesn't matter.
You can use your regular
grocery store brand.
If you have someone, if you have
a farmer's market nearby
that has rice that they get from
somewhere, that's fine too.
You just want to make sure that
you wash it no matter what.
This is not a recipe that you
need to go to a special market
or anything like that because
all of these are pretty common
ingredients. So we're going to
go ahead and wash our rice.
>> Carolina Moratti: Perfect.
You want to make
sure you have a sieve so that
you make sure the water comes
out clear at the bottom so that
when you're ready to cook, it's
nice and clean and it goes right
in the pot. So actually, I'm
going to have you do that.
What I'm going to get going is
actually our onions, because
we need to sweat those down so
that we can add the meat.
The meat mixture is actually
meatloaf mix.
I find that for the way that I
make them having a mix of
different meats. So in this
case beef, veal and pork,
those are really great because
they have a really nice fat
content and they also have
different levels of flavor.
So you don't have to worry
about salting too much because
already with the pork in
particular, it has more sodium.
So we're going to go ahead and
start chopping the onion.
Perfect. Rice looks
absolutely beautiful.
>> Carolina Moratti: Good.
I'm going to place
right there for you.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Perfect.
Now that the rice is washed,
I'm going to get started
on the onion.
And actually, if you,
what I want you to do,
if you don't mind, is
actually if you want to put
two cups of water in here.
>> Carolina Moratti: Yeah.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: That way...
we measure 1 to 2
whenever you cook rice.
Because what we're going to do
is once the rice is in there,
we're only going to
partially cook it.
And the reason for that is so
that once we mix the ingredients
together for the stuffing,
when it goes into the oven,
once it's ready. It doesn't
take up too much moisture
because we don't want
soggy cabbage rolls.
>> Carolina Moratti:
So this is how you want
to make the rice
with the water first?
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Yes.
>> Carolina Moratti: Okay.
I'll do it different.
I toast the rice first and
then I add the boiling water.
So this is something different.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
So do you make
the rice a little
crispy on the bottom?
>> Carolina Moratti:
No, not as much.
But you're always like, we put
the oil and then we put the rice
kind of, like, cook it over,
and then we put the water and
the water is already boiling.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
I see. Okay.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Different way to do it,
but at the end of the
day it's rice, right?
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
That's right. That's right.
And honestly, our only goal for
cooking the rice this way
is just to get it cooked enough
so that the grains
are soft and sticky.
So that's really cool.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Because you want to mix it
when you make the meat.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Exactly.
>> Carolina
Moratti: It glues together.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
You can actually, if you want to
turn on the burner
and throw the rice in.
>> Carolina Moratti: Yeah.
I want to learn how
to do this kind.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Yeah, absolutely.
So you can throw
that in the rice.
Here you go.
And don't worry
about stirring it.
Just make sure that
all the rice is in there.
And it'll do.
It'll do its job. So--
All right. So now,
onion, rough chop.
I don't do this
any particular way.
I just make sure that I cut it
into quarters and then once the
quarters are cut, then I chop
it up roughly because it's going
to get cooked, it's going to
get sweated down softening and
it's going to shrink
once it's cooked.
So one.
And then I actually cook,
cut them horizontally
instead of vertically,
and then nice and easy,
slices first, two or three
just to get them relatively fine
because we don't want the onion.
You don't want huge
chunks of onion, obviously,
because nobody loves--
>> Carolina Moratti:
Some people.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Nobody likes
biting into a huge
chunk of onion.
>> Carolina Moratti: Well,
to me, onions and garlic,
it's never enough. But yeah,
some people don't like that.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
I definitely agree with you.
In particular, in the
Ukrainian culture, we love
using onions and garlic.
Like if you come into
a Ukrainian kitchen
and you don't have that smell,
then someone
is not cooking, right?
>> Carolina Moratti: You
will see mom and grandma
saying like, what are you doing?
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Exactly.
>> Carolina Moratti: You have to
add more of this, more of that.
And then you know.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Right.
Yeah. So one of the things
that I actually love
about this recipe is
like we've said already is
how simple it really
is. It doesn't take--
You don't have to be a chef.
You can just be, you know,
you can be just a regular person
who wants to make
something tasty,
to serve to their family,
to their friends.
Even for yourself,
you can make big batches,
you can make small batches.
It's super versatile
and anybody can do it.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Especially nowadays.
It's good to learn and it's
start cooking at home.
We're leaving so fast that we
don't take the minute
that a minute to cook or
to enjoy to make a meal.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Right. And it's, it's a shame.
>> Carolina Moratti: And
when you go to the restaurant,
it's so expensive
now that we have to
learn how to cook stuff at home.
And this is something you can
eat the next day.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Yeah,
it's, it's actually great
for leftovers because you have
so many options for how
you want to reheat them.
You can fry them, you can
put them back in the oven.
You can do so many
delicious things.
>> Carolina Moratti:
You remind me to a dish
called Pastelitos fritos.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Okay.
Which is kind of similar.
Like, like a little like you
said, you're going to roll it.
Like, roll it up.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Yeah, yeah.
Similar in Fried as well.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Oh, that sounds delicious.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
It sounds great.
>> Carolina Moratti:
You know that cute names on food
bring so many memories, right?
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Exactly.
Exactly.
>> Carolina Moratti: How do you
learn how to cook this?
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: So I
learned to cook from my mom.
She basically taught me how to
do everything from pasta to eggs
to, you know,
stuffed cabbage rolls.
How to make pierogi is like all
of the things that I grew up
eating. I learned how
to cook from my mom.
Oh, so yeah, so she is,
she is our chef at home.
And, you know, I'm so grateful
that I had someone that
taught me how to do that
because it just opened up
so many doors for me to be able
to share my culture and share my
experiences with people
who aren't Ukrainian, you know.
>> Carolina Moratti: That's
exactly what I was thinking
in the beginning,
because you're really young
and then you got
this passion for
cooking from your families and
now you are following traditions
and you want to keep on going.
That tradition. That's lovely.
I know you brought up book,
so we're going to talk about
the book later on.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Absolutely.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Yes. I'm looking forward to
see your book and
see your recipes,
because I heard that book is
like 37 something years old.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
It's older than I am.
Let's put it like that.
Even without this book,
which has been in my family for,
like you said, over 30 years,
being able to cook Ukrainian
food is something that's
very important to me,
especially nowadays with
everything that's going on
around the world, like being
able to preserve my culture is
something that I think
everyone should be willing
to do regardless. So--
>> Carolina Moratti:
Give me the onions.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Yeah, so
pour some olive oil in there.
It's actually, let's get the pan
nice and hot first.
Ooh, I'm not crying.
I'm not crying. So we're good.
[Laughing]
I must have done it right.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Good. So we have the onions
that you chopped already.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Yeah.
>> Carolina Moratti: Right.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
So, like I said,
super rough chop like this is...
This is not restaurant standard
by any means, but honestly,
it doesn't have to
be. Like I said,
it's all going to
get mixed together.
The flavors are all...
>> Carolina Moratti:
It's about perfect.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
You're going to love it.
It's going to be great.
>> Carolina Moratti: Perfect.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
So we're just getting the--
>> Carolina Moratti:
Something really nice and hot.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Exactly.
And once it's nice and
hot, we're going to put the--
We're going to put some oil in
there and then we're going to
start sweating down the onions.
Yeah. So it's nice and simple.
Nice and simple. And we're
already almost half done.
>> Carolina Moratti: One, two,
three, four, five, six, seven.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: See?
>> Carolina Moratti: Eight.
Easy to me.
And I know it's
going to be delicious.
I'm looking forward to it.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: I can't
wait for you to try them.
I am very excited.
>> Carolina Moratti:
So now we're going to
work in the meat, right?
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Yes.
The meat is next.
>> Carolina Moratti: So we have
the part already here.
And what are
we going to do next?
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
So we're going to
coat the pan in some oil.
Now, if you want to use a
certain kind of oil, you can.
Today, we're going to be using
extra virgin olive oil
to give it that
nice earthy flavor
to the meat as well
as the onions.
But you can use,
you can use any oil.
You want to use avocado oil.
You want to use grapeseed oil,
even vegetable oil,
any oil you want to use
just to be able to coat the
pan and add some nice flavor,
keep things nice and,
nice and together. Perfect.
>> Carolina Moratti: What's your
mom's or your favorite?
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
So my favorite actually
is Grapeseed Oil because
it's a nice neutral flavor.
It doesn't really
change anything.
It keeps everything
nice and natural,
really great for
sautéing in general.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Good. Good.
Yeah. So, but today we're going
to change it up a little bit.
We're going to add a little
extra virgin olive oil.
So this pan is nice
and hot already.
You always want to make sure
that a pan is hot before you add
oil to it. So just,
just a little bit,
just to get it around the pan,
we don't want it too oily.
So that's that.
And the next thing that we're
going to do is we're going to
take the onions that we chopped
beforehand and we're going to
toss those in so
you can see already,
You see smoking a little bit?
>> Carolina Moratti: Yeah.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: That's
exactly when you want to
throw it in nice and hot.
So here we go.
Now, something that I didn't
talk about before is
how much of everything
you really want.
So specifically with The Onion.
Because. Because you're only
using one cabbage.
You don't want to overload it
with too much onion and other
vegetables because vegetables
have a lot of water.
And if you have too much water,
then the cabbage
rolls can come apart.
And obviously
you don't want that.
So one yellow onion is generally
the recipe that I follow.
You can use other onions,
but I find that yellow onions
in particular are the
perfect size so that you can
just use one and that's
all you really need.
>> Carolina Moratti:
And they make it quite less.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Yes, that's definitely true.
That's definitely true.
So see, this pan in
particular is because
it's so hot, it's
already sweating.
Everything is getting nice
and caramelized already.
So what I'm actually going to
ask you to do is...
Actually I am gonna ask you
while I'm stirring the onions,
if you want to just
put the meat in.
You can just put them
all in together and...
Yeah. So because I'm going to
break everything up and mix it.
>> Carolina Moratti: Okay.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Yeah.
>> Carolina Moratti:
So let's do that.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Perfect. So, so like I said--
>> Carolina Moratti:
How much meat you put it in?
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: So for
this recipe, it's one pound.
So one pound...
>> Carolina Moratti:
So everything is one, one onion.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
One pound of meat. Yep.
>> Carolina Moratti: Good.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Exactly.
>> Carolina Moratti:
One cup, one cup of rice.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
One cup of rice and one cabbage.
>> Carolina Moratti: Oh, we're
the doing one, one, one, one.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
That's right. That's right.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Awesome.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
So. So again, keeping it simple.
You don't have to worry about--
>> Carolina Moratti:
That's the way to go.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
It really is. It definitely is.
So now that Karina has put the
meat in, what I'm going to do is
keep breaking everything up.
That way, everything gets a nice
even coating in
the oil and onions.
The flavor starts to
infuse and you can just,
oh, just smell so good.
I wish you guys could smell it.
It smells absolutely delicious.
If you have specific
diet restrictions,
anything like that, you can
change this however you want.
Honestly, it's, it's truly,
it's such a versatile dish.
>> Carolina Moratti: Yeah.
Speaking about that.
We can replace the meat.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Yes. Absolutely.
>> Carolina Moratti: Any kind of
meat, we can use turkey.
Can we do this also with
vegetables, for example,
for people who doesn't
want to eat meat?
We do like all
mixed vegetables.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
There's another recipe
actually that calls for
specifically only vegetables
with the rice.
So if you're a vegetarian...
Even if you're, actually
even if you're vegan, there is
pretty much nothing in here
that you couldn't eat in this.
The style that we're doing
today, obviously,
since we're using
meat, you can't.
But otherwise, if you just want
to use vegetables, you don't
want to use anything that's a
byproduct of meat, no dairy,
anything like that. No eggs.
This is perfect.
Yeah, absolutely.
>> Carolina Moratti: We talk
in Share Your Foodways a lot
about cooking or cooking with
what you have at home.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Yes.
>> Carolina Moratti:
So this is also a dish that
allows you to do that?
To apply that, to use
whatever you have on your shelf
and make something.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Yes, absolutely.
It's also inexpensive.
So even besides like using
whatever you have at home.
Let's say you're on
a really low budget.
All of these ingredients
together cost me less than $20.
>> Carolina Moratti: Amazing.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
And I can make,
I can make at least a dozen
stuffed cabbage rolls
just from this alone.
So if you are looking to not go
to the grocery store all that
often and you're on a limited
budget, it's perfect.
Like if you're a college
student, you know.
>> Carolina Moratti:
That will be perfect.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
This is truly perfect.
Like it'll last you for at
least a few meals.
You can share it with your
roommates, things like that.
It's awesome.
It's great. Yeah.
>> Carolina Moratti: I love it.
So what else we
have to add after the meat?
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
So since we're only going
to be partially
cooking the meat,
what we need to do is make
sure that we season it.
So what I have over here
is actually a season mix
that I use at home. It's
an all-purpose seasoning,
all different kinds of
vegetable seasonings.
So and if you're someone who
doesn't like to use a lot of
salt, this already
has sodium in it.
>> Carolina Moratti:
So you don't have to add more.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Exactly, so and this,
my favorite part about this
is that you don't
have to measure it.
You can just season it to
your heart's content so.
>> Carolina Moratti: Good.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: If you want
a lot of flavor,
you can add more.
If you don't want a lot,
you can add a little bit.
So yeah, it's perfect.
Yeah, it's great.
So actually, you know what?
I want you to season it.
>> Carolina Moratti: Okay, good.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
You know what?
Since we're going to be, we're
going to be eating it together,
I want you to--
>> Carolina Moratti:
Oh, you can see.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
See? Exactly.
>> Carolina Moratti:
I think that's good.
Then we add more if we need to.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Yeah, exactly. You can do it
to taste, which
is the best part.
So. This pan is really hot, so
I'm actually going to be using
this to grip. We do not
want to get burned, so
give that a nice mix.
Get the onions.
We don't want the meat to get
clumpy or anything like that.
We want it nice--
>> Carolina Moratti:
And the seasoning
is giving a lot of color, too.
I love it.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
It's beautiful, beautiful color.
Nice golden, golden color.
So this meat is actually pretty
close to ready, which means that
what we can actually do
is grab our price,
which should be ready by now.
>> Carolina Moratti:
It is. Yeah.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Perfect. Perfect. So...
See, it's gorgeous, gorgeous.
It's absorbed all
that excess water.
It's perfect. So if
you want to add it.
Actually I have.
Do we have? Yeah.
So you know what?
>> Carolina Moratti:
I can use this one.
That's not hot, you
can just put it in there.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Beautiful. Beautiful.
Here we go.
And so now that this is all
mixed together, you'll really
see why it's
important to just only
partially cook and everything.
Because if everything
was cooked fully through,
everything would be really soft.
It wouldn't take on
the flavor as well.
So watery.
>> Carolina Moratti: Yeah.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
So and as it continues to cook,
>> Carolina Moratti:
We want to make it to be.
We want it to be dry.
Because the cabbage is
already you know, it's very,
it has a lot of water in it.
You get the good consistency.
This need to be dry.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
That's right.
So why don't you
give that a stir?
And in the meantime, I'm
actually going to take a look
at our cabbage.
>> Carolina Moratti: Yeah.
So now that we have
this meat, we can start working
in the cabbage in
a minute, right?
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Yes, that's going to be
the next part while
this is mixing.
And then once we
break down our cabbage, we can
add our last couple of
ingredients to the mix
and then we can start rolling.
>> Carolina Moratti:
I think I'm going to add
a little bit more of
the seasoning too.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Go for it. Go for it.
So now that we've mixed our
meat in our rice with the onions
and the seasoning,
we're going to let that cool
and we're going to
work on our cabbage.
So the most important thing
about this is making sure that
you have something to
actually poke into the cabbage
so you can pull it
out of the water.
Otherwise you're
going to get hurt.
And we don't want that, right.
So, so coming off.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Thick enough.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Beautiful. Beautiful.
So something that I
that I had mentioned before is
that you can actually see when
the cabbage is ready, once the
leaves look like they're
starting to pull away from
the center. So, like, you
can see how soft these are.
Like, I can just, I can just
grab it and just if I wanted to,
I could just pull it off.
So what we're going
to do is we're going to
put a fork right
in the middle.
See. See how easy that was?
One of the leaves
already came off.
So we're going to let that
drain a little bit.
Because we do not want
boiling water everywhere.
>> Carolina Moratti: Yeah.
I love the color
of the cabbage.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Isn't it
beautiful? Absolutely beautiful.
Oh, so speaking of the cabbage,
actually, since there are
so many kinds of cabbage
like you can get Savoy cabbage
and things like that, this
is a basic green cabbage
that you can get it
in your grocery store.
It's the perfect density.
The leaves are the right size,
and it has it adds a really
nice, sweet flavor to the, to
the savory ness of the meat.
So, yeah. So there we go.
Now our water is drained.
Nice and easy. So I am going
to use this leaf as well.
But what? And
there's going to be,
I'm going to do
something special
with this one in particular,
just because
this one does have a hole in it,
which normally
wouldn't be a problem,
but because it's also
one of the outer leaves,
it's pretty thin and we don't
necessarily want
a really thin leaf.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Let me take that way.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Okay, super.
Now that we have our
cabbage, it's been prepped.
It's nice and soft.
We're going to start
pulling it apart
and we just, you just pull
from the stem just like that.
Now, be very careful.
It is super-hot. So if you
need to definitely put on
some sort of gloves so
you protect your fingers.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Maybe we can wait a little bit.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Yeah, if you want.
You want it to cool
down a little bit.
It'll continue to soften
because it's still hot.
So if you want to
wait, it's fine.
>> Carolina Moratti:
But not for too long.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
No, no, you don't want it
to get super cold
because that doesn't
that doesn't work well either.
>> Carolina Moratti:
It will get too soft as well.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Yes, exactly. Exactly.
So and you want it a
nice, like warm, warm
temperature because then once
you mix everything together,
because it's still soft,
all the flavors
will be able to go, right.
>> Carolina Moratti:
And also, if it gets too cold
it can start breaking apart.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Yes. Yes, absolutely.
So see beautiful big leaves.
One thing that you definitely
want to watch out for when
you're cooking the cabbage,
though, when you're getting it
ready, is you don't want it to
overcook because then it gets
too soft and it starts to tear
and just it's not a good time.
So this is actually perfect.
And again, because we love to
save our food that we don't use
for other things, any of the
leaves that are either too small
or have holes or things like
that, we will incorporate either
into this dish or we save for
other dishes that use cabbage,
which trust me, in
Ukrainian culture,
there are plenty of so...
>> Carolina Moratti:
Wow. Well, more than halfway.
This is amazing. Super easy.
And the smell again,
It's amazing.
So we let this. We let, we cook
this, and then we let it sit.
So it's already cold. So
what are we going to do now?
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
So now what we do is actually
we're going to take our last
couple of ingredients.
We have a carrot,
we have one slice of
portabella mushroom and
we have two garlic cloves.
I know a lot of people are
going to be looking at this and
going, why are you
putting the garlic in last?
Well, there's a reason for that.
The reason you put the garlic
in last is because you don't
want to overcook the garlic.
You want that flavor
throughout everything.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Because this is going
through the oven.
That's exactly why you do it.
In a regular way that if
you would be cooking in a
different way, then
you use the garlic.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Yes. Then you would do it first.
>> Carolina Moratti: Okay.
That's the technique
that we using for today.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Yes,
that's the technique
we're using for today.
>> Carolina Moratti: I love it.
So let's chop that up.
Add it in and then
we start rolling.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Okay, great.
>> Carolina Moratti: Love it.
[upbeat music]
So now we're going to add the
last ingredient to the mix.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Yes, we are.
We have two cloves of garlic
already freshly peeled
and chopped.
And what we're going
to do is we're actually going to
use this press that I have here.
>> Carolina Moratti: That looks
very interesting and quite old.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
It is. It is.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Tell me about it.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
This is actually something
that I've had at home
with my family
for a very long time, probably
longer than I've been alive.
And I'm 32. So you can only
imagine how old this thing is.
And this is, it's a champion.
Honestly, it has never failed.
We've never had to fix it.
It's just, it's one and only job
is to take these garlic cloves
and mince them. That's it.
So we're going to
do that right now.
Most of my cooking experience
is from my mom.
Breakfast, lunch, dinner, all
those things.
Some baking.
Like she just learned.
She just taught me how to bake
our holiday bread,
which is called Kalach.
So if you're, if you're Jewish,
you might know it as Challah,
but it's our version of it.
But for whatever reason, all of
the stuff cabbage rolls wasn't
in her wheelhouse in the way
that my grandmother made them
because my mom specifically
only made them for holidays.
So she would make
them with like barley.
And it was just barley,
like it was just grains.
We say kasha. So it's like it's
like full grain syrup, but it's
not oats necessarily.
And so that was her specialty.
But when it came time to
learning, my mom actually said,
you know, why don't you have
your grandmother, your Baba,
teach you how to do it? Because
she's been doing that for like
decades, like selling them.
When she came over here and that
was one of the ways that she
made money, is that she would
sell her, Holopchi at the
local church and to
the local community,
like just to give them
a taste of home.
So eventually, finally, I asked
her to teach me, and she did.
And it came out so well
that now I am the resident
Holopchi maker in our household.
We don't make them on the
regular, although if you were to
go to Ukraine, it is not
anything holy in the sense that
you don't just eat it on the
holidays, but here on the US.
It's not as common.
In certain families,
I'm sure that they are.
But for my family, we
typically only eat them
during the Christmas holidays.
So overall, the adaptation that
I made to my, to the recipe that
I grew up eating is just it's
more balanced and it's more
about enjoying the dish
whenever you want rather than it
being something that you reserve
for just the holiday season.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Moment. We got to the moment.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: We did.
>> Carolina Moratti:
We have to roll it up.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Then we have to bake them.
>> Carolina Moratti:
So can you please show us
how to roll it up?
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Absolutely.
So what we're going to do here,
is actually the first thing
that we do before we actually
roll it is we want to divine it.
So this part of the
stem is very thick
and it takes a very
long time to cook.
So we want to cut through that
just to make the cooking time
a little bit shorter and
a little bit more even.
>> Carolina Moratti: Because
it's also a little bitter.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Yes, it can be a little bitter.
We don't want that. So so we're
going to do that right now.
So very gently, knife as
horizontal as you can.
Just like that.
Right through the stem.
Right to the end.
Nice and easy. And that's it.
Last step before we throw all
the cabbage rolls together is
the actual stuffing. So you
take a tablespoon, typically,
depending on how stuffed you
want your cabbage rolls
and how many you
actually want to make.
I typically use a tablespoon.
It's a nice even measurement.
Everybody has one.
So two tablespoons.
>> Carolina Moratti:
I love the colors.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Similar to other wraps.
Take the sides one over the
other and then from the center
you just roll it right up to
the front.
So if you've ever wondered how
a spring roll is made or
anything like that, this is
basically the same concept.
Exactly. So. And there you go.
Nice and easy.
It stays nice and tight.
Since it's wet, it'll basically
stick to itself.
And there you go.
Your first cabbage roll.
See, we did it.
>> Carolina Moratti:
So we made 12 rolls.
Now it's time to
put it on the oven.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
That's right. Yes, it is.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Before I want to ask you
about this beautiful pie.
Tell me. I feel like
there is a backup story.
The same thing with garlic.
Tell me about this one.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
So this is a Dutch oven.
And this Dutch oven has been in
my family for probably at least
45, maybe 50 years,
something like that.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Wow. Let me ask you then,
with that answer,
I have to ask you
how many years your family is
here in America?
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Well, I was born here
as well as my mom.
So the only actually the only
person in my immediate family
out of my parents that was born
in Europe was actually my dad.
So, yeah, So I'm like
generation 1.5.
That was born here in America.
So this is actually, this was
actually from the US and
it's actually my grandparents
and they, we just kept it.
>> Carolina Moratti:
I love it.
So I can feel that in your
family you have a lot of these
connections and these roots
and these traditions
that you keep bringing
and to this.
Thank you for sharing your
foodways with us.
This is amazing.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Absolutely.
I'm very happy to be here.
>> Carolina Moratti:
So we put it together,
you put it on the on the pod,
and now we're going to
put it in the oven.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
We're going to put this
in the oven for 350 degrees.
But before I forget,
before we do that,
we have to make sure.
So actually what
I'm going to do is
I'm going to show you
what it looks like.
So what you want to do
is between the layers of
cabbage rolls, you want to make
sure that those spare leaves
that weren't necessarily that
pretty or that great,
or maybe they were
just too small,
you layer them between
the cabbage rolls.
What that does is it keeps
them nice and moist and
it keeps them from
sticking to each other
so that when they're
ready, there is no mess.
>> Carolina Moratti:
That's how you say that.
We're going to use it later on.
I love it.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Yes. That's
why we never throw anything out
until we are truly done,
because there is a
purpose for everything.
One other thing.
Have--you want to fill the pot
with some sort of liquid.
you can use water or what
I like to use is broth.
I use vegetable broth because
I think it gives a lot of really
great flavors and it sort of
works with all the seasoning and
all the ingredients. So fill it
with vegetable broth up to just
about the top layer, not
covered, but just so you can see
the tops of the cabbage rolls
cover it 350 degrees on the
oven, baked for anywhere from
an hour and a half to 2 hours.
>> Carolina Moratti: Perfect.
Let's put it in the oven.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: All right.
>> Carolina Moratti: And wait.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Let's go right ahead.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Roman, this is amazing.
All the stuff they teach us
today, all the things that
I learned, I'm looking
forward to while we wait.
I'm looking forward to ask you
a few questions and to get to
know you more, to get to
know your culture more.
So I have to ask
you something else.
You said that you learn to
cook from your mom, right?
So what's the favorite dishes
that you learn from her
and the dishes that
you enjoy to cook?
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: So besides
the dish that we made today,
actually something
that my family does
that I do with my mother
and my younger brother
is we always make the Ukrainian
word for it is Veranyky.
In English you may
know them as pierogies,
and that's a dish that we do
we can make
throughout the year.
But typically for us, we only
make them together for
the Christmas holidays.
It's one of th--one of the
primary dishes that we make.
it's almost a sacred dish.
And one of 12 other--one of 12 
total dishes that we make
for the holidays.
And so besides the dishes we
made today, that's another one
of my favorites and actually
one that I learned
how to make recently.
Similar to Jewish Challah bread,
we have our own
it's called Kolach.
And it's a long braided bread.
It's probably as
long as this stove,
maybe a little bit shorter.
It takes almost a
whole day to bake.
And my mom just taught me how
to make it this past winter.
So it was it was an
amazing experience.
If you've never baked bread,
which I'm sure you have, but if
there's anyone who hasn't baked
bread, you have to at least
learn how to make
dough for bread because
it is truly a
magical experience.
>> Carolina Moratti: I love it.
We have made bread here
before on the show as well.
But this is just amazing.
I have to say that I love to see
that you are second generation.
You were born in here and
your mom was before you.
And this is, I love the fact
that how you carry your
culture, your traditions,
all of this stuff.
And with that, I want to ask
you about the book.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Oh, yes, the book, yes, yes.
So this is a book
which is from the 1980s.
We actually-- I don't remember
where my mom got it, but it is
actually from a
bookstore up in Canada.
So it's actually not
even from the US.
Also, another very strong
Ukrainian community in Canada.
So this book in particular, it
has recipes that are not only
Ukrainian but also non
Ukrainian recipes.
So it's it gives you a mix of
many different things,
a lot of different influences.
But this book in particular is
one of three traditional books
that we use in my family to
help us remember or to learn new
recipes so that we can
carry on our culture.
>> Carolina Moratti:
I'm looking at the book
and I can help to
see the similarities
from the book to your shirt.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
To my shirt. Yes.
[Laughs]
>> Carolina Moratti: So you
wanna tell me about your shirt?
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
I'd love to.
So this is the Ukrainian
word for it is Vyshyvanka
and Vyshyvanka is the Ukrainian
word for embroidery.
So our Ukrainian, our embroidery
is very specific to us because
our symbolism stems almost
entirely from agriculture.
So farming and things like that.
So on my shirt in particular,
this is two rows of stars and
it's not a very
traditional design.
Aside from the stars, the
colors aren't very traditional,
but it's the stars themselves
represent a lot of different
things in Ukrainian culture.
It's also partially
religious, not only Catholic,
but also our pagan roots from
centuries and centuries ago.
So it's a lot of different
tied together themes. Yeah.
>> Carolina Moratti: I love it.
So what would you said?
What would it be your message
to the people who come from
another countries like you from
I mean, you are from here, but
with traditions and history with
a lot of culture and legacy.
What would be your message?
Embrace that.
What would it be?
if you have a,
If you have a 15 year old
Ukrainian boy in front of you,
what will you tell them?
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
I would tell them
to find other people like them.
Find other Ukrainians,
because especially if you're
coming here and you've never
been to a different country or
especially if you're moving to
a new country, finding people
within your community
is truly super important.
It gives you such a great
foundation for so many things,
so that you have some place
to essentially call home
away from home. So that
would be my message.
>> Carolina Moratti: To give you
some sense of community.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: Exactly.
>> Carolina Moratti: And to
embrace the culture, right?
l love it. Let's see
if the food is ready.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Yeah, let's do that. Let's go.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Wow. It's done.
I'm so excited.
I cannot wait to try it.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk: I'm really
excited for you to try it, too.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Can I open it?
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
Absolutely.
>> Carolina Moratti: Let's see.
Wow. Look at the colors.
Oh. Smells delicious.
Super soft.
You can see everything in here.
I am gonna grab this.
A little bit of
everything, right?
Wow.
[Laughs]
It's so soft.
Hmm. Wow.
Wow. Thank you so much.
This is delicious.
You did an amazing job.
Thank you so much.
You showed us all your culture,
all this adventure,
all the stuff that you
cook for your family,
and how you keep
your traditions.
Really, I want to thank you.
And I want you to come again.
>> Roman Kovbasniuk:
I would love to come again.
>> Carolina Moratti:
Yes. Oh, my God.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for all of you
watching the show.
Share Your Foodways
is produced by
the Division of Food Life
and Cultural Heritage
at the Arts Institute of
Middlesex County, New Jersey.
This episode is produced
in collaboration with
the American Folklife Center
at the Library of Congress.
Thank you so much.
This was Share Your Foodways.