>> From the Library of
Congress in Washington, D.C.
>> Mary-Jane Deeb: Sima Wali,
I thank you for being with us.
I had the opportunity of
listening to you yesterday.
And I thought that you made
a wonderful presentation
for the case of Afghani women.
You are yourself an Afghani woman
who has battled a number of battles,
who has received awards
from numerous institutions,
including Amnesty International
with the work you have done.
Tell me a little bit about you.
Where were you born?
>> Sima Wali: I was born
in Kandahar in Afghanistan.
And I was raised in Cabo.
And I continued to live in Cabo
until the time of the
Soviet invasion.
The actual invasion
came after I left.
I left three months
before the Soviet invasion.
>> Mary-Jane Deeb: And where
did you go when you left?
>> Sima Wali: I fled Afghanistan
to come to the United States
and seek refuge in asylum
in the United States.
And since then, I have been
living and working in the U.S.
and have focused my work primarily
on Afghan women, and, of course,
on women who have been affected
by wars throughout the world.
And since well before the Taliban,
I spent a lot of time working
on the Afghan situation and
exclusively focused our programs
to promote the empowerment and to
raise awareness about the situation
of Afghan refugees
internally displaced people
and the Afghan people in general.
The focus of my work is on
Afghan civil society institutions
and on the people of Afghanistan
who are running their own
community-based organizations
and they have done so in the
past 23 years of conflict.
And my work focuses on
promoting the empowerment
of these grassroots organizers
and civil rights institutions.
>> Mary-Jane Deeb:
Both men and women.
>> Sima Wali: We focus on
both men and women because--
>> Mary-Jane Deeb: And children.
>> Sima Wali: And of course,
because these grassroots
community organizers focus
on the entire community.
They provide the basic
human services
and the critically-needed
services to their communities
because we have not had a
government that has focused
on the Afghan people for 23 years.
And the women have
suffered immensely.
It's the women who have
suffered disproportionately
from the conflict in Afghanistan.
>> Mary-Jane Deeb: Is it
primarily in education
or economically or socially?
What has been taken
away and away from them?
Because I know that there were
women, members of parliament,
you had women teachers,
doctors and so on.
Is that primarily in education?
Was that the first impact and then--
>> Sima Wali: It's been all sectors.
It's been in the education sector.
And the fact that the lives of
the Afghans have been disrupted.
And it's the women who have
bore the brunt of the war,
and they have suffered
untold misery.
And it's the women who
have lost their husbands
and they have become widows.
And they themselves are
so heavily traumatized
and they are undernourished.
So they've suffered in all
sectors; the health sector,
the education sector,
the human rights sectors.
And when the Taliban came
into power, the very rights
of Afghan women, that was guaranteed
and then tried in our constitution
that was taken away from them.
So progressively over
the years of the war,
Afghan women's rights
were taken away from them.
>> Mary-Jane Deeb: One by one.
>> Sima Wali: Yes.
>> Mary-Jane Deeb: Have
you been traveling?
Have you been going back
and forth to Afghanistan?
>> Sima Wali: I have been
going because my work focuses
on human rights, and it focuses
on promoting the empowerment
of the grassroots community
organizers and the leaders
who provide the human rights
advocacy and services and education.
And especially those
that provide it now,
the clandestine education is really
for girls during the
time of the Taliban.
Because I write about
the situation and I write
and critique the human rights
conditions throughout the war
in Afghanistan.
And because I've been known for my
work, so my own security is at risk.
And I've taken that calculated
risk to portray the voices
of the Afghan women who don't
have a voice in the west,
and this is my major concern
because there are many women
who do remarkable work, and many men
who support them at
the community level.
However, they're so isolated.
So they're constantly, when I
go back to the border to work
with them, they tell me to please go
to the west and take our voices out
and serve as a witness
to our suffering.
So I have not been able
to go inside Afghanistan
because of the various regimes,
and also because of the Taliban.
But I am very pleased
that I am going now.
In about two weeks, I am going
to establish our programs
in Afghanistan.
>> Mary-Jane Deeb: So in a
way, you have been the voice
of the Afghans outside Afghanistan.
And in many ways, in the
meetings that you have attended
and with the people you have met.
Tell us, who are some of the people
you've been meeting and talking to,
and how is your organization
affecting changes in Afghanistan?
>> Sima Wali: I try to serve as
a witness to the Afghan people
because they have actually
requested of me
at several different visitations
that I've had with
them at the border.
And these are women and men who have
crossed the border from Afghanistan
to specifically talk with me and my
group, and also with my colleagues
and those that are living
as refugees in Pakistan.
So I have tried to portray
the reality and the needs
of the Afghan people,
particularly the women.
I've done so by writing,
attending conferences.
>> Mary-Jane Deeb: You worked
with the United Nations, isn't it?
Or through the United
Nations you were given awards
and you've been chosen as a speaker?
>> Sima Wali: Yes, so international,
I was pleased to give
the keynote speech.
And, of course, I focused
on Afghan women
on International Women's
Day this past year.
So I'm happy that I get invited
to opportunities such as Fulbright
and other situations, so where I'm
able to portray the true realities
and the aspirations
of the Afghan people.
And my main struggle is
for the rest and for women
and human rights institutions
and policymakers
to understand what the
realities of the Afghan situation
and what the needs of
the Afghan women are.
It's not really the dress code.
It's the-- I'm concerned that
we're focusing too much in the west
on the symptoms of the war, and the
dress code is one of the symptoms,
rather than looking at the
>> Mary-Jane Deeb: The basic.
>> Sima Wali: The origins of
the conflict and to provide--
you have to understand the
true origins and the history
of what caused the war and
what the origins of the war is.
In order to devise solutions
that are sustainable,
you have to address the causes
that keep women impoverished
and keep them from having
access to society's resources.
And being at grave risk and being
the targets of human rights abuses.
>> Mary-Jane Deeb: Of course.
Tell me, did you have support from
your family, from your parents,
from family members who
helped you and supported you?
Or was it difficult?
Did you find obstacles?
Family, cultural obstacles
that stood in your way
as you were trying to push forward?
Because it is difficult.
It is difficult for a woman to be
doing the things you are doing.
>> Sima Wali: I lived
through the war
in Afghanistan a very
sheltered life.
And when the war broke
out, this was in 1979,
I had a passport and
I was able to leave.
And this is when we
were under house arrest.
And I actually worked with the
Americans, the Police Corps.
And prior to that,
the American Embassy.
And this was [inaudible] a
risk in itself for that time.
I immediately had to stop working,
so we were being watched
very closely.
>> Mary-Jane Deeb:
Because your parents?
>> Sima Wali: It was my
parents basically who said
that they would not survive,
that I should take opportunity,
the opportunity to
leave Afghanistan.
And this is when I left.
In a matter of 24 hours,
I managed to get my Visa.
But then when I was in the
process of acquiring the documents
to leave Afghanistan, I was arrested
at gunpoint and interrogated.
And it was very difficult for
several hours because they suspected
that I was from the
family, that I was supposed
to be under surveillance.
But I managed.
I mean, there was-- after
several hours, they got tired
of questioning me and
investigating my background.
One of the soldiers then said
that, "well, she's a woman,
what kind of a threat can she be?
Let her leave."
>> Mary-Jane Deeb: And they
didn't understand what kind
of a threat you were,
and how powerful a woman's
voice can be, isn't it?
>> Sima Wali: And I was leaving
under the pretense that I was going
to visit my brother who was
then studying in Germany,
and I would actually go for
a short trip and come back,
and I had my return tickets with me,
and I had taken all
of those precautions.
So it was very difficult.
And I left--
>> Mary-Jane Deeb: You left alone?
>> Sima Wali: I left alone,
and I left reluctantly.
And I was actually the first
Afghan refugee who arrived
after the communist takeover
of Afghanistan in 1979.
I arrived in the United States, and
since then I've been living in exile
in the U.S. And that's been
when I started feeling
the impact of the war.
And I realized, and I had
also experienced as a product
of the war the atrocities
that many of my friends
and extended family
members had survived.
And that's when I made
the vow that I would serve
as a voice and a witness.
And I was sent by my family that if,
God forbid, they did not survive,
this is my immediate
family, that I would take--
be a representative of my family
outside and take the voice
of the Afghan people
outside of the United States.
>> Mary-Jane Deeb: And
your family was fine?
>> Sima Wali: My family
was still in Afghanistan.
They left during subsequent
[inaudible]
under very difficult
and risky conditions.
But I am very lucky because my
immediate family members are all
alive, and they managed
to escape with them.
But many of my extended
family and my friends
and relatives did not survive.
They were subjected to
torture and many were killed.
>> Mary-Jane Deeb: By the Taliban?
>> Sima Wali: Prior to the Taliban.
>> Mary-Jane Deeb: When
the Soviets were there?
>> Sima Wali: When the
Soviets invaded Afghanistan.
So I decided then that I would
serve as a witness and try
to take the voice of the Afghan
people outside of the United States
because we are so isolated
from the world community.
But over time, it is very
emotionally draining work,
but it's extremely
rewarding when I work
with people at the grassroots level.
These are remarkable men and women
who do the work on the grave risk,
at grave risk to themselves
and their families.
So I realized that their
only hope was in me,
and I had to actually serve as a
voice to them and the outside world.
And, of course, it did become very
risky, in which time I would go
to Pakistan, my mother is very
concerned because I am known
and I have been on death
threats-- I've had death threats.
And this last time when I was at
the border working with Afghan women
and men who had crossed the border
during the time of the Taliban
to tell me their stories and to work
with us and we provided training
to the groups in Pakistan and
outside, in the region and also
from inside Afghanistan, I was--
my family was very concerned,
and my colleagues locally know
that it is threatening for me to be
in the field because I try
to write on the situation
and to actually bring awareness
and raise awareness in the west
and at international conferences.
So they were giving
me enough protection.
And when I returned, I got a very
threatening letter threatening my
life, that they're
watching me closely.
If I come back and provide the
services and that I provide,
it would be very threatening
and very dangerous for me.
>> Mary-Jane Deeb: Sima, you
are leading a life which is full
of meaning, which is meaningful to
you and meaningful to many others.
And it is, in a way,
you're a mother for many,
and the light leading others
out of a period of darkness.
And I want to thank you for being
with us and for sharing something
that is so close to your heart
and which inspires us all.
Thank you very much, Sima.
>> Sima Wali: Thank you very
much, and I hope that we
in the west will understand its
true reality of the Afghan people,
that they're very dignified,
they're tolerant,
and the Afghan people are tired of
war and their wish is to have a free
and democratic Afghanistan.
And I hope that the Afghan people,
who are very dignified people,
will have the opportunity.
And so far, we have heard too
much about the extreme voices
and about the militants
in Afghanistan.
We have yet to hear about the needs
and aspirations and the voices
of the Afghan people, and
I'm hoping that I'll be able
to portray that in the west.
>> Mary-Jane Deeb: You're
a wonderful representative
of your people.
>> Sima Wali: Thank you.
>> Mary-Jane Deeb:
For their courage,
for their honor and
for their dignity.
>> Sima Wali: Thank you very much.
>> Mary-Jane Deeb: Thank
you for being with us.
>> Sima Wali: Thank you.
>> Mary-Jane Deeb: Thanks.
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