>> From the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C. >> Guy Lamolinara: It is now pleasure to introduce our distinguished authors. To my right is Victor Hazan, who is an authority on Italian food and wine. He is a life-long collaborator of Marcella Hazan, who is the queen of Italian cuisine in America. She unfortunately passed away in 2013, but her spirit and, of course her recipes and ideas about Italian food will live forever on. It was Marcella Hazan, together with Victor who brought us "The Classic Italian Cookbook", a book that introduced Americans to classic Italian cuisine. Whenever you have a dish of classic Italian food such as spaghetti bolognese or veal saltimbocca you have Marcella and Victor Hazan to thank for their dedication to educating Americans on what real Italian food is and about using authentic products. Today he will discuss his and Marcella's new book called, "Ingrediente". And to my left is our other author Alessandro Frassica, who is the author of "Veggie Panino". Like Victor's book, "Veggie Panino" focuses on the importance of good ingredients. As both of these authors would agree, all ingredients are not created equal. Your finished product can only be as good as the ingredients that went into it. By the way we call in American an Italian sandwich a panini, but in Italy panini is actually a plural. The singular is a panino and, thus, the books title, "Veggie Panino." Please join me in welcoming Victor Hazan and Alessandro Frassica. [ Applause ] Victor I understand you have a short film about Marcella Hazan. >> Victor Hazan: Yes. It is a short film taken when Marcella was given the Lifetime Achievement Award presented by the James Beard Foundation. >> Guy Lamolinara: Okay. >> Victor Hazan: And Marcella picked up probably every single award available- >> Guy Lamolinara: Right. >> Victor Hazan: In food in her lifetime. And if we have a couple of minutes do you- >> Guy Lamolinara: Yes. >> Victor Hazan: Think we could. >> Guy Lamolinara: Could we see that please? >> Victor Hazan: Yeah, is that the one. [ Inaudible background discussion ] >> Guy Lamolinara: "Master classes." >> Victor Hazan: I'm sorry. >> Guy Lamolinara: There are two films. One's called "Master Classes", is that the one? >> Victor Hazan: It could be. >> Guy Lamolinara: It could be. >> Victor Hazan: Master. >> Guy Lamolinara: Why don't you start it and we'll see if it's the correct one. Start the "Master Classes." Let's see. [ Silence ] Is this the right one? >> Victor Hazan: It looks, it looks like it, yeah. [ Music ] There is no sound with it? >> Guy Lamolinara: Is there sound? >> Julia Child always called her her "Italian Counterpart." And years back Americans didn't know about northern Italian cooking. And this woman Marcella is instrumental in teaching Americans about norther Italian cooking. And she's such a kick, let me tell you. >> We're going to ask why the world's most accomplished chefs to work with her magic on the most basic kind of meal. She is the remarkable Marcella Hazan and welcome to you. >> Thank you. >> And she is known as Italy's national treasure. Even our friend, the great Julia Child, considers her a mentor in all things Italian. For more than 25 years she's been teaching Americans about Italian cooking. You probably didn't know about pesto until Marcella told you about it. >> Italian cuisine is a favorite in this country. And its popularity is due in part to Marcella Hazan who is a cookbook author and many times she is called the godmother of Italian cooking in America. And here is the queen of Italian cooking Marcella Hazan, who has produced this book "Essentials of Classic Italian Cooking." >> Marcella, your first book was a revelation for me. It was the first time I saw in print the kind of food that I was raised with, with my Italian family. But the thing that I think I will be eternally grateful to you for was when I came to study with you in Bologna in the mid 70's you introduced me to what was to become one of the great loves of my life, the region of Emilia-Romagna. As you know, it is the main love of my life professionally. Of course, my Tuscan family still doesn't understand this. Well, Marcella, thank you and thank you for all you've given all of us. >> Okay. I was not the one to make you happy now. >> A little more, yes. You're with me now Marcella. >> Okay. >> You didn't set out to be a famous cook, right? I mean, you're a biochemist. You have two doctorates. >> Yes, I am. >> Yeah. >> But I use it. I'm crazy almost like this. >> This dish is called. >> Pesce all'acqua pazza. >> And in English that translates to. >> Fish with crazy water. >> Fish in crazy water. >> Yeah. Brian, this is a good example of Italian cooking, because we have a way of saying in Italy that has the same importance what you keep out of them and what you put into them. And here actually you put salt and pepper and lemon, that's it. >> That's it. >> Marcella arrived on the scene like a comet and nothing was the same again. The food that we thought of as Italian turned out to be more American than Italian. For many of us, Marcella was the beginning of the real thing. La Vera Cucina, "The True Cuisine." Thank you Marcella. When we think of pesto, we think of you, Marcella. Thank you. And when we think of pork simmering in milk, a dish so succulent that one only has to think about it to taste it. We thank you. And when we think of Vinicia, the place that you gave so many cooking classes to so many people, we thank you, Marcella. >> There are so many different Italian items that you introduced to this country, right. >> Yes. >> She's very modest. >> Extra virgin olive oil. >> Yeah, the extra virgin, balsamic vinegar. >> Well, unfortunate, because now they use it for everything. >> We're drinking it like wine now. >> Marcella is particularly gifted. She's uncalculating, unpremeditated. She, she cooks as she breathes, you know, as she walks. It has become a reflective act on her part. She, she is part to a ingredient, to its color, to its shape, to its freshness or lack of it, to its bulk. And out of her [inaudible] comes, comes a dish. And it is, she is true to herself in this. Marcella is always true to herself. [ Music ] >> Guy Lamolinara: Thank you. That really gave us a great picture of Marcella and the great influence she had on Italian food. And Alessandro, I understand you have a slide, film that you'd like to show us. Can you tell us about it? >> Alessandro Frassica: Right. >> Guy Lamolinara: Can you run that please? Or do you want to introduce it first? >> In the slide part, first thing, thank you to be here. It's a big pleasure to me to come from Italy and to be here to present my book, myself. Sorry for my English. It's not so- >> Guy Lamolinara: Your English is fine. >> Alessandro Frassica: Perfect. But yeah, this is my [inaudible] in Florence. It's a place where we make only panini, because in this word panino there are, this is our menu and there are many things to say and I am happy to be here to, to explain something. [ Silence ] >> Ingredient, ingredient is the word, the word that today we talk because for me, this is my first one, book, "il Pan'ino." And I am happy that with the panino, with the [inaudible] we have here in Washington to talk about this. This is the second one, Panino Veggie. It's only evolution of what we do because for me it's important to talk about the food with or without meat, fish, now we talk about this. It's for me great opportunity to explain this. I was saying that ingredients it's very important, because for me everything starts from the ingredient. The quality of the ingredients, it's the first thing important thing. The panino for me is the, the tool, the container where I can do what I want to explain. This is my philosophy. And here you can see some pictures of the book, different recipes. Because I think that they, they get word it's so interesting. When we think of panino we think always of salami, prosciutto, mozzarella, picolino cheese. But this is very important, but it's very important even to explain how there is a word, a [inaudible] word, and even the panino can be a way to taste, to understand this word. Not only for who is vegetarian, but even for everybody because it's very important to understand what there is behind these words. In this book my recipes, but even different recipes of friends, famous chef in Italy. And each of them have done one recipe for my book and it's a great honor for me, for me to have this. Okay. >> Guy Lamolinara: Thank you. Tell us about a panino and what makes it different from just an ordinary sandwich. >> Alessandro Frassica: First thing that when we talk about panino we have to talk about the bread. Because usually when I see, even in Italy, not only outside, we never talk about the bread. We always talk about what we put inside but we forget the first thing that for me is the first important thing. In the book there is, I want to talk about, about flour because it's very, very important to say what is or meal or other things. I don't want to do too difficult to explain. But there are some simple things that is very important to know. And after, if you want to develop this but everything starts from here. This is very, very important not only for the taste okay, but even for the healthy, because we cannot think when we eat something it's only for tasting flavor, but even to stay well, to stay better. Panino is important but even the way with which you to, to mix, to combine this ingredients. For me a panino is very, very important harmony, the balance. I see that many people that more things you put the panino is better. Many people can't, especially sorry, from USA, and they tell me put prosciutto, mozzarella and you have this icons and pesto, mozzarella, prosciutto and they want to put everything, because they think that more things they put, this is better. It's not, no. Simplicity is the really truth. Simplicity to do this you must have with quality of the ingredients. And how to combining them and always I look forward to find harmony and balance when you have to feel, to taste the different ingredients, but they together are something more. I always say you know one, one must two, not 1.50, always and then to have something is to became it better. This is the difference for me from a panino and a sandwich. >> Guy Lamolinara: Okay. Thank you. Victor you have a chapter in your book where Marcella writes how I fell in love with ingredients. Can you tell us about that? >> Victor Hazan: Yeah. This was Marcella's introduction to, to her book, the book that representing today is called, "Ingrediente", which is Italian for ingredients. And too this was Marcella's summation, the last work of her life, for her last years into. And too much of the essence of cooking, the whole purpose of cooking is taste. And taste depends on getting to the essence of the ingredient, the essential quality of the ingredient. And as Alessandro was saying the more ingredients you put into something, the more muddled the taste becomes. And Marcella fell in love in a sense with the central character of the material that she was working with. If she was working with artichokes, you know, she would prepare a dish and put, the star was the artichoke. You tasted the artichoke. There weren't four or five other things along with it. And to Marcella cooking to taste not of the person who produced it, but of the material that was on the plate, as simple as possible. And Marcella became celebrated for producing recipes with only two or three ingredients. She has a tomato sauce with only three ingredients that's become one of the most widely used tomato sauces in the world. And the interesting thing that I saw, I saw an article in the "Wall Street Journal", not too long ago. And it said that industrial food companies have hit on a new thing. Food with very few ingredients, with no more than two or three ingredients. And I said, "Well, if only Marcella were around." Really because she would enjoy it. >> Guy Lamolinara: Yeah, she would set them straight, I'm sure. Okay. I, there's one place in your book where you talk about a woman who talked about pasta and she said I only used fresh. >> Victor Hazan: Oh, I remember the incident very well. And this happened not infrequently in Marcella's preps. This was on a book tour and it was the local food editor of a city in the north. And the first thing she said after greeting Marcella, said, Marcella I want you to know that the only pasta I ever use is fresh pasta. And, of course, she meant pasta that she made herself at home. And Marcella said, oh you poor girl. You don't know what you're missing. Because you know to us, yes, fresh pasta we are from Romagna. We spent much of our life in Bologna. We loved [inaudible], tortellini, lasagna, but there is so much else that is different. The pasta you buy in the stores, penne, rigatoni, spaghetti, spaghettini, they have a, a character or quality they marry with sauces in a way that fresh pasta doesn't. So, if you eliminate all of that you're eliminating, like, 80% of the flavors that Italian pastas can deliver. >> Guy Lamolinara: Okay. Alessandro, I was looking at some of the recipes in your book and I couldn't believe some of things you were using, like brussel sprouts like in a panino. How do you get your inspiration for doing things like that? In fact, I see that on your cover there. >> Alessandro Frassica: It's very easy because I said before, for me a panino is like a plate, is a recipe. I learned many things with my friend's chef that when they come to find me they told me when you do one panino do exactly like we do when we think a plate. And then the balance like I said before with the salty, bitter, the different flavor, no. And then the inspiration is when even I go in a restaurant, when I go to find a producer, I think with this ingredient what can be the intelligent combination to do this. And our menu is always traditionally, because the tradition is a treasure that we have that we cannot forget this. But I think that we must be even contemporary, because the world is changing. Our way of life is changing. For example, in Italy now we use as before to come back home to it, we say, with the legs under the table, you know. No, no, even we stay out. We go to eat, but even if I don't come back home, if I don't have my wife or my mother that cook for me, now this is only what we call it, we don't do this anymore. But I have to find something good, healthy. And even if it is fast the time, the quickly, and then I have to think something of good, of healthy, quick, contemporary. This is for me the word of what, what I do. And then tradition, but to think what are the, our way of life of today and we don't have to forget the quality, the taste and the healthy. >> Guy Lamolinara: You have a recipe in your book for what's called a hamburgerino, but yet it's a vegetarian panino. What is that? >> Alessandro Frassica: It's a, it's a game because in Italy we use it to do a Miranda, is like, I like to call it Miranda because [inaudible] is not the same things in our mind. And Miranda, panino con la frittata, panino con la frittata put on plate, but even when you are a child and all your mother gave you these you know when you go for [inaudible] the school, no. Give you panino con la frittata and [inaudible] and this I have done. This contemporary veggie and then I have done this game. Use one omelette but to a disc no, like if it was in a [inaudible] to put some in this recipe you put some kale inside. And there is like an omelette, the bread, the tomato, the cheese. I use picolino cheese, usually a sheep cheese that we have Tuscany. And I add my own ketchup with a good tomato and a good red pepper [inaudible] and some salad in this. So it is a game like if it was a really hamburger. And then it's a way to explain, like even with a joke you can do quality. >> Guy Lamolinara: Thank you. Victor, your book has all these various chapters about different ingredients and one, of course, is on parmigiano-reggiano. How is that different from that stuff you buy in the green can? >> Victor Hazan: Oh, the difference again is in the raw material. And the raw material that goes into parmigiano-reggiano is a product of a specific environment and of the reaction of milk produced by cows to that environment. Milk is one of the most sensitive products in the world. When there was the explosion in Chernobyl and there was a fall-out all over Europe and food stuff began to taken off the market because of the exposure to possible fall-out. The first product in Italy to be taken off the market was fresh milk. And I say this to indicate how sensitive it is to the place where it is produced. So the milk for parmigiana-reggiano is limited to a few provinces in northern Italy. Part of them in them in the province of Bologna but mostly the provinces of Parma and Modena. It is also a procedure that is 800 years old and hasn't been changed except for the source of heat that heats up the milk in the, in the kettles. Originally the heat would have been fire, firewood. Today the heat is better controlled; it's gas. But otherwise the milk produce, is created exactly the same way. There, part of the milk come from the evening milk and part of milk come from the morning skim. It is cooked in these large kettles. Each kettle produces exactly as much cheese necessary to make two wheels. And then those wheels are subjected to salting, to brine, to aging. And only after three years may be called parmigiana-reggiano. So it's a little bit different than the stuff you buy in the can. >> Yes, it's quite different. >> Yeah. >> Guy Lamolinara: One of the things, of course, that Marcella wanted to do in America is educate us on Italian cuisine. How far do you think we've come in the process? >> Victor Hazan: Well, I think as far as access to ingredients the change has been enormous. Because when Marcella first started cooking in this country when we were married and came over, there was virtually nothing. And through her books, through the respect and curiosity that she aroused in people about Italian cooking I think we've come today to virtually everything that is available to Italians in Italy. Almost everything is available someplace, somewhere in this, in this country. The only thing I must say that is still lacking the quality of agriculture. In Italy we have vegetables that have extraordinary flavor. I find it difficult in America to get that flavor in the vegetable. The vegetables are either overgrown, overwatered, they may be beautiful but they don't have that intensity or flavor, that quality that made Marcella fall in love- >> Guy Lamolinara: Right. >> Victor Hana: With ingredients in the first place. >> Guy Lamolinara: How about you Alessandro have you tried making any of your paninos in the United States and what kind of success have you had with that? >> Alessandro Frassica: No, no, but even here you can find good ingredients. I think that when I do something here many immigrants come from Italy, okay. But if you can find something of good here for me is even interesting to use is what you can find in the place. Because for me my philosophy is even what my parents told me, when you come back home you open this [inaudible] and you always find something, always. And if you're creativity and the, your what you feel to do together, you always find something. That to say, here in USA if you want you can do a great quality of panino if you want. >> Guy Lamolinara: What about the bread that we have here? >> Alessandro Frassica: In USA the bread are, there are good flour. I have tasted many good things and I, I think that we can do very good things if we want. The problem is very often people doesn't want to do. We see the cost, you know. It's normal that some products cost much more. For example, we talk parmigiana-reggiano, to do one kilo of parmigiana-reggiano you need 15 liters of milk, one kilo, 15 liters. Parmigiana-reggiano need, when you to have 24 months of aged and even more, but you need to have a product that stay 24 months in your warehouse it have a cost. Then what I tell you is it's okay to see the price. But it's, you have to one question to yourself, more if one thinks cost too less. Because you have to do this kind of why it cost? So it's so cheap, not only when it is so expensive, because this is the question that is important to do ourself. >> Guy Lamolinara: What do you think about Italian restaurants here in this country? >> Victor Hazan: That was not on the program? [laughter] >> Guy Lamolinara: Okay you better not answer that. But why don't we take some questions form the audience? Who has a question? Please go up to the microphone, please. >> Hi. My name is Carlotta and I have the privilege of being from the same hometown of Marcella that is Cesenatico on the Adriatic Coast. So as such I love Italian food and food from Romagna. So I have a question for Victor. I have tried multiple times to make pidadina, but I'm not quite able to replicate the piadina. I can [inaudible] that I can make in Italy. So I'm really, really curious to know whether Marcella was really able to make piadina and whether it was the same that she would in Cesenatico. >> Guy Lamolinara: Did you get that? >> Victor Hazan: Oh, yeah. >> Guy Lamolinara: I'm sorry I didn't hear what food you said. >> Piadina. >> Victor Hazan: Piadina. >> Guy Lamolinara: Piadina. She's asking if you could make, if Marcella made piadina here in the US? >> Victor Hazan: Marcella made piadina. >> Guy Lamolinara: Maybe we should tell people what that is. >> Victor Hazan: Piadina is a, is a flat bread. It's an unleavened bread and in Romagna it's flattened out and it used to be cooked on an earthenware. We called it a testo, an earthenware disc that was put directly over fire. And it was slightly charred. It came off the testo and it was slightly charred, very thin. And we would either eat with a little bit of, cut into, into wedges and make panini out of it. There was prosciutto, mozzarella, but other panini we made was with grains, wild grains a little bit that were wild grains that were sauteed with garlic and olive oil. You'd put it on the piadina and that made it wonderful, a wonderful panino. I, Marcella made piadina at home. I must, however, that in our many returns to Cesenatico the quality of the piadina there has sadly declined. It's no longer rolled out with a rolling pin by hand, but it is rolled out through big steel rollers. It is cooked on a steel griddle and somehow the composition of it doesn't have that flavor and that, that crackly texture it used to have and that Marcella could get at home. >> Guy Lamolinara: Anyone else a question? >> Victor Hazan: If you have the time Guy, I don't know if you do. But other video- >> Guy Lamolinara: Let's watch the other video. >> Victor Hazan: That's very interesting because you see, it's about Marcella and her last two weeks of life. Of course, she didn't know they were her last two weeks. The "New York Times" had sent an interviewer to Longboat Key, where we lived to interview her and to ask if she would produce some dishes for the "Times" and this was videotaped. And this was the public view that anybody had of Marcella. >> Guy Lamolinara: Oh. >> Victor Hazan: And it is quite moving, I think. >> Guy Lamolinara: Okay, could you show that, please? [ Music ] >> The sauce for the first course is a very easy one. Onion, butter, and tomato, that's altogether at the same time. >> You don't cook the onion first. [ Music ] >> Not many spice because I got tired about listening that people think that the Italian food is full of spice. They come here and they look at my kitchen and they say, where are your spice? One is here. The other is there. So. In a few months I will be 90. That's too much. [ Music ] >> I think the reason that Italians are the happiest. [ Music ] >> Want me to do that? [ Music ] [ Food cooking ] >> [Inaudible] because this part cook faster than this now. >> Right. >> So I have to do this. >> It's very smart. >> I wish I had thought of that. >> You didn't. >> No, sorry. >> Oh, look at this relish. [ Music ] When I married Victor I never cook in my life. But we had one thing that was much more production. When I did try anything and it came right, he was jumping from his chair and come to kiss me. I want to be so happy. Well, I'm glad that you like that. >> It's fantastic. >> It was very easy to be done. >> Yes it was. [ Music ] >> That was great. Thank you for bringing that. [ Applause ] Anyone else have some questions? >> Yeah, I'm Bernie. Over in the Mediterranean and in general I know noticed that fennel grows like wild, like weeds everywhere. But when you want to get fennel to put in your ingredients to put in your dishes here in the US it's like out of sight cost wise. >> Guy Lamolinara: And the question is, I'm sorry. >> Oh, for Victor is what he feels about fennel as an ingredient. >> Guy Lamolinara: What do you think about fennel as an ingredient in the United States? >> Victor Hazan: Well, as a vegetable it's perfectly acceptable. We can get very good fennel [inaudible]. Marcella talks about it in the book, "Ingrediente." But if you're talking about fennel, wild fennel [inaudible] there are very many varieties of wild fennel available in Italy. But they're also available here, except they don't come to the market and in Italy you can go to the produce market and there may be an old lady with just a few things in the store. But she will have some wild, some wild arugula and maybe some wild fennel and that has a different purpose. That has, that is for flavoring. Fennel the kind you buy in the market here is a vegetable that you can eat either raw, or fried, or braised, or baked, and it's excellent. It's a wonderful vegetable. >> Do you use fennel in any of your panino? >> Alessandro Frassica: There is on recipe there is fennel, because there is a typical Sicilian recipe, the orange with fennel, no. And then I have done one panino using what I said before, the tradition but contemporary. >> I get it. >> Alessandro Frassica: And then fennel is a nice ingredient and fennel seeds is, are inside one of the most famous [inaudible] salami that we have is fennel [inaudible] like a salami, but inside there are fennel seeds. And this flavor is very, very interesting. >> Victor Hazan: May I add something to that, because Alessandro reminded me. One of the things that we find very peculiar is that Italian sausages in this country by default, Italian sausage contains fennel seeds in America. And Italy we have places that have sausages with seeds. But you go to Venice or Bologna or Piedmont or anywhere in the north of Italy and you have these marvelous sausages, wonderful pork. There is no fennel in them. They all they taste of is meat and it's very peculiar. Have you ever found a simple Italian pork sausage in the United States that did not contain fennel seeds? >> Guy Lamolinara: No. >> Victor Hazan: It's frustrating. >> Alessandro Frassica: So the problem is that when I can you say another country I see some recipe ingredients that we don't use in Italy. I say if I have to say one recommendation, the first thing is to look for the authenticity because many, many things that are here, many restaurants, many places sell, like, Italian and not Italian, but we don't eat this [inaudible] and then it's better to know less things, but true things. This is what I recommend. >> Guy Lamolinara: Who else would like to ask a question? >> I wanted to thank Victor for all of the cookbooks that you and your wife did. They were very welcomed by me and my family. >> Guy Lamolinara: She said thank you for all the books you've written. >> And I have enjoyed your son's books as well, Juliana, his cook books. And Alessandro, I personally prefer pecorino too and I wondered if you could discuss your preference for that. >> Alessandro Frassica: The question. >> Guy Lamolinara: Do you have a preference for pecorino? >> Well, you, he said that he did over- >> Guy Lamolinara: Not that you did. >> Alessandro Frassica: I come from Florence, Tuscany. And the cheeses that in Tuscany you produce are always sheep cheese because the tradition is that many a story from [inaudible] came to Tuscany and the, we have sheep. It's difficult to find cow, goat cheese. And pecorino is a simple one. I like so much the fresh one, the marzolino, for example. But even if it's a little bit more aged, because in this word there is a world. Sorry, for the mistake on words. And yes, I love pecolino cheese, yes. >> Thank you. >> Guy Lamolinara: Thank you. >> Thank you. I'm really enjoying this. I had a question because my relatives are from the southern part of Italy and they use some spinach and things like that. Is that common up north to put that kind of ingredient into a meal and they combine, like, spinach with raisins in a dish that I know of. So I'm just curious. >> Guy Lamolinara: Do you know of any Italian dishes that combine raisins with spinach? She's from the southern, her family's from the southern part of Italy and that's something they do down there. So you know of that? >> Victor Hazan: The kind of dishes that combine spinach. >> Yeah. >> Guy Lamolinara: With raisins. >> Victor Hazan: With raisins. Well, not spinach with raisins, but raisins are used in the cooking of Venice. And we use raisins and onions and a dish uses sardines and used to preserve the sardines. It was made originally for those Venetians who were traveling very far away on boats and they would take local homemade food with them. And one of the dishes was sardines fried in vinegar and onion and raisins. And they, they lasted for a very long time. But raisins with vegetables I don't know Alessandro. I, if in Tuscany you serve raisins with vegetables like spinach. >> Alessandro Frassica: [inaudible] in Italian. Okay right understood, yeah. In Sicily there is one recipe here in one place where we use moscato raisin. It's very sweet and usually a typical combination is the scarolla [phonetic]. >> Guy Lamolinara: Escargot. >> Alessandro Frassica: It is a little bit bitter with the raisin because a little bit sweet and even anchovies because it's salted. What I said before, no the different kinds of flavor but together gave you harmony and balance. And then I have used in the book one without anchovies because it's veggie, but I have said this in the recipe that usually scamorza cheese, it's cow cheese with scarolla with the raisin and anchovies if you want to and the veggie version without it. It's very interesting. In south Italy we use braising [inaudible] we say, no. >> Guy Lamolinara: Sweet and sour. Anyone else. Well, please thank our guests Victor Hazan and Alessandro Frassica. [ Applause ] >> This has been a presentation of the Library of Congress. Visit us at loc.gov.