>> Peter Vankevich: Welcome this afternoon. This has been a wonderful day for the fiction stage here. I just do want to introduce Roswell Encina, who's Communications Officer at the Library of Congress. That sound like one of the best jobs in the district here, so. And welcome and we'll go ahead and let you two proceed. Thank you. >> Roswell Encina: Thank you, Peter. Let's give Peter a round of applause. He's been the longest volunteer for all book festivals, so we're proud to have him. And I want to welcome everyone to the National Book Festival on behalf of the Librarian of Congress, Carla Hayden. She welcomes everyone. It's been exciting day. I know many of you have been falling inline outside. We appreciate your patience. But this is one of our biggest events that we do here at the library not only here in Washington, but to all the people who are watching online as well. If you're tweeting or instagramming, please use our hashtag at, you know, #natbookfest and we hope, you know, we'll follow you around as well. So, I'm not going to go on and on about this introduction. The first time I heard about Andrew was about maybe like 14 years ago, when the today show picked "The Confessions of Max Tivoli". I still have my copy here actually, as their book selection for that month. I don't think they even do the book club anymore. But I think I remember reading this entire book in one weekend and going like who is this Andrew Sean Greer, like he's definitely going to make a mark. Fast forward to 2018, earlier this year when he wins the Pulitzer for fiction for his book, "Less" that everybody has been raving about. [ Cheering and Applause ] Which clearly leads us to today. So please welcome to the National Book Festival Pulitzer Prize Winner, Andrew Sean Greer. [ Applause ] And I'm not sure if you guys can see it, I think we have like matching shoes on too, some to think about it. >> Andrew Sean Greer: And pants further right down. >> Roswell Encina: We didn't plan it, so. Now, people don't know here that you're kind of like a Washingtonian. You used to work at Politics and Prose. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Yeah, I did. Yeah. [ Applause ] Back when they were on the other side of the street, if anyone remembers that. Someone must. Where they box up the books, all the customers helped them moved to the other side. Yeah. >> Roswell Encina: So make sure you go and buy a book from Politics and Prose and get it signed up afterward, so. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Yeah. >> Roswell Encina: Let's talk about the book. The reviews for it have been like ridiculously amazing. So, because I work for the Library of Congress, I feel like I need to quote a librarian. During Nancy Pearl's interview with you, she says, it's funny, tender, meaningful and he hits all the right notes. And in the interview, your jaw dropped, how were you thinking all these excellent reviews? >> Andrew Sean Greer: Well, I've given instructions to my publisher and my husband only to show me the good reviewers. So, I-- for me, it always just-- it feels like I miss America every day and I don't see-- I'm not aware of any other ones though. >> Roswell Encina: Well, here's-- just a couple weeks ago, I think you retweeted this and it made me chuckle a little bit. I don't know who this woman is, but her tweet is at Marieke Hardy. "I just finished a Greer's exquisite masterpiece less. And if I ever meet him, I fear I may just fall into his arms and weep." >> Andrew Sean Greer: Is she here? >> Roswell Encina: This is your chance, Marieke. I mean, this is crazy. Most people like when you win the Pulitzer, it's always some tragic or, you know, a book that's this thick but this is a comedy. >> Andrew Sean Greer: I think somehow-- and it made people giddy online, you know, that that-- and also other writers who I talked to got-- there were sort of like a wicked chuckle about it because, of course, we enjoy writing all kinds of work and then somehow I think a lot of writers are afraid that they're going to get smashed if they do something funny or satirical about the same material that they're not taking it seriously enough. >> Roswell Encina: Wow. >> Andrew Sean Greer: But-- >> Roswell Encina: Now, let's get to the book. I should say I'm a man heading certain age, I'm not proud of it but it's happening. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Be proud of it. >> Roswell Encina: But I can relate to a lot of the stuff that was happening in the book. There's this one line, I've got to read it. So I'm sorry. Yes, I don't over prepare. >> Andrew Sean Greer: I told him not to over prepare. The rainbow flag of tags on this. >> Roswell Encina: There's this one line in the book, it says, "Strange to be almost 50. No. I feel like I just understood how to be young. Yes, it's like the last day in a foreign country. He finally figured out where to get coffee and drinks and a good steak and then you have to leave and you won't ever be back." Is that how it is? >> Andrew Sean Greer: A little poignant too, right? It says that-- Well, I'm only 47 so I have no idea. But most of my friends are older than me up into their 60s and things and so I've watched everyone-- or 90s in crossover a different thresholds of age and they've consistently given me the advice of like what the hell are you worrying about, enjoy yourself right now. You've got five good years left. But then they say that they've been saying that a whole time as they got 50 and 60 and then older and then I get the impression like you always have five good years left until you suddenly don't. But it is on my mind. And, in fact, when I was writing "The Confessions of Max Tivoli", which is about a man aging backwards and where-- well, as mind goes forward, I was turning 30 and I was worried about. It's adorable now. It was about a body getting old, you know, that kind of thing. So this is me in preparation for the end. >> Roswell Encina: Now despite-- I'm hitting there too. So, despite the book being very funny, I think it's still very sad. Was this meant to be a comedy or was it ever-- did you go through a journey for it to be a comedy? >> Andrew Sean Greer: Well, I bet you know the answer to this, which is that it was-- I actually work on it for year as a wistful poignant novel about a man approaching 50 and it has the same characters in it. And it has about four pages left of the original draft. And I really struggled with it the whole time. I wasn't happy. And I didn't know what I was going to do. And-- because I couldn't feel sorry for him, you know. It just didn't-- It's too much like me. And also in the present day in age, like maybe in 15 years ago, I could have written a book about like a middle age white man fairly well to do and been like, oh what a hard life. But right now, just doesn't feeling that way. So I couldn't feel like his problems were that solid. So it occurred to me one day that while swimming in the San Francisco Bay, that, yeah, I should just make it a comedy instead. And I threw everything away except three pages. And I made it the same problems but made fun of them as being not really worth worrying about. And I had such a good time ridiculing someone like myself but not entirely like myself, so that I could use a lot of things finally in my life and-- and you know what also help me every day because I would try to think of like-- I would sit in my chair and I think what is the most humiliating thing that is ever happen to you, Andy. And how could you make it funny. And it was a great way to get over it. And every-- the minor humiliations of the day where you trip over something in the sidewalk and you try to pretend you were doing a wild dance in the sidewalk kind of thing, I would take notes on all of those and it would make the day a lot easier. I wouldn't immediately think it was funny, but a few hours later, when you meet your friends for drinks and they say how is your day, then I would tell them this funny story. And I realized I have friends, so I think, why do funny things happen to them all the time and I realize they don't, they've just figured out through I think sadness that they can't bear to tell it as a sad story and they're always making it a funny story and those people are usually the professional comedians I know, are pretty sensitive to sad things and they just turn around. >> Roswell Encina: You mentioned a middle age white man. There's a part in a book that talks about the other, the book-- within the book, swift. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Yeah. >> Roswell Encina: That a middle age white man is not really sympathetic and I feel the same way towards Arthur and like am I suppose to like him or am I suppose to hate him because I'm a little jealous of him that everything kind of came easy for him. He may be-- you know, he dated someone who was clearly very successful and was well-known, then everything just kind of went very nicely from there. Is that supposed how it's supposed to be? I mean, are we supposed to like him or hate him? >> Andrew Sean Greer: I think you're supposed to-- in fact, when I come across reviews on Twitter that say something like I didn't think I was going to like, oh, Roxane Gay is on-- review on Goodreads was great. She said, "I didn't want to like this book at all for all kinds of ridiculous reasons but I just couldn't help myself." And I was like that's exactly what I wanted in a way I wanted you to understand like-- to like enjoy his minor suffering and then eventually come around and be like, well I hope it turns out OK. >> Roswell Encina: I think I've got another passage that's connected to this, which I think is kind of describes my feelings about Arthur. And I guess everybody else was too about if we should hate him or dislike him. Here it is, it says, "What if it isn't even sad? For a moment, his entire novel reveals to himself like those shimmering castles that appear to men crawling through the desert." And that's when he realizes that Swift is not really a person that you want him to be. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Yeah, that you could-- and because, I mean, you spend a lot of time in his head and when you do that as a writer it means that characters going to seem self-centered and neurotic and-- if you like spending time with the character, you never thinks about anything but just thinks action, right? And like Hamlet, you're like, oh my god, just kill him or move. Yes, so I was-- that was my game. >> Roswell Encina: Arthur was accused of being a bad gay, too. I mean, maybe some of us could relate to that but was that from any personal experience as-- have you been accused of being a bad gay, have you seen people that you think are bad gay men? >> Andrew Sean Greer: I would never-- maybe some politicians. But it's not for me to say, because what the hell would that even mean. No one has said that to me. But except the person in my head who tells me that I'm a bad gay for not writing books that are about the gay experience completely. Like before this book, there was always been a gay character on this as a side character and that I would be-- I think I told myself I was a bad gay for not making like a big gay book. And I-- and maybe I am, but I couldn't do it like I couldn't figure it out without being the wistful point itself [inaudible] book that I was almost going to write for this one until I turned it around. And, you know, I tell my students I don't-- I teach sometimes and I think the first day I tell them and that's usually a diverse crowd of people, which is wonderful and I say I know there's like a middle age white guy up here again teaching you about writing and I know what you're thinking. And I say, I think all of us come from a community that we want to speak for, and that we're going to have a conflict in our writing that we want to celebrate and tell the stories of that community and then we also want to tell the truth about it which will sometimes be at odds with that community and the myth it has for itself and wanting to celebrate it but also make it real and human, you're going to have to figure out some middle ground and you're going to let somebody down somewhere. And you're going to each have to make your own choice about that and I tell them the kind of choices that I've made. So, I'm sure I let somebody down to this book but I hope they're not in this audience. >> Roswell Encina: You brought up a good point though, because many books that have a central character who is gay, it's either-- there's always something tragic that's going to happen like-- I mean, from "A Little Life" to "Brokeback Mountain" to that new book, "The Immortalists", always something awful happens to these people. But there's this-- including last but like "Call Me By Your Name" and the "Love, Simon" book, they're all just cheerful happy books that I think no matter if you're gay or straight, you can relate to because the central theme is love. Is that how you look at it? >> Andrew Sean Greer: I have nothing else to say to that. That seems wonderful. But here's something else I have to say about it, which is that when after I won the Pulitzer Prize-- [ Laughter ] [ Applause ] -- I was-- I tried to start every sentence like. I think I have one more month of getting to do that. And I was-- I had a job, I was working at-- I was the director of "A Writers Retreat" in Tuscany. I have a very hard life. It was stranger than you think. And there was a great writer there, Terry Tempest Williams, who's a wonderful nonfiction writer and naturalist and wise person and strategist at Harvard Divinity School and I asked her why I should wear to this ceremony. And I was looking online at things I was going to get on the reelreal.com. And she's-- And I was like I think I should wear something very sober and serious because it's such a grand occasion. And she said, oh no, no. When people in the world-- I'm trying to say, when people tell you that you don't count as a human being and that your celebrations aren't real and aren't valid, sometimes the greatest protest you can do is a defiant expression of joy by the red suit. [ Laughter ] And I thought, well, I think she was-- I think in the book, that was me being a good gay was to have the book be a defiant expression of joy. And I wore a red suit. You can see on Instagram. >> Roswell Encina: I remember the tweets. >> Andrew Sean Greer: It's really bright. Vulgar. >> Roswell Encina: Now, after reading this book, I guess the central theme is, you know, Arthur accepts all these invitations that go around the world. When was the last time we did something absurd or last minute or spontaneous or as crazy as that? >> Andrew Sean Greer: A few months ago, or in March. I-- Departures magazine asked me if I could go-- it's like dinosaur attack, right? Jurassic Park 7. Book festival, something, oh my gosh, it's really dramatic. I'm going to try to talk over it or work it into my story. It was something else, super glamorous, it was like, we want someone to go to the Swiss Alps and write about spas there. And I said I have a job. Like, I mean, I'm in Italy but I can't leave. I mean, I can go away for three days and they said, OK, three days, can you force bus in three days? And I'm like, well, who couldn't? Well, I couldn't because it involved driving a four-wheel drive car over the alps like over glaciers where people were skiing and I would like leave a place in the morning. I was like, I'm sorry I have to get a massage on the mountain like, two, I would go as like I can't talk to you, I have to get the massage. I get the massage, I would sit in the sauna for long enough to be able to write about, I mean like I have to drive to the next massage and-- which is four hours away and I did that for three days and it was ridiculous. But also, of course, like luxurious. >> Roswell Encina: Aha. >> Andrew Sean Greer: So you can't complain but you can make fun of yourself for thinking that was relaxing. >> Roswell Encina: How fun was it doing research on this book? Did you have to go to each of those countries to experience everything so you could cram it all in there? >> Andrew Sean Greer: I mean, I did. It was-- half of-- I was trying to make money, and so I was pitching ideas to travel magazines and food magazines. And I was the guy who didn't have like children or a job so like I was available to go to Japan for-- I was there for four days. And, you know, I was a couple trips in before I realize that I wanted to put all of these into my book because I'm an anxious person, I would take notes. If you're alone by yourself, you just sort of take-- I just sit and take notes in a restaurant. You're there for two hours. So, you know, I'm not on my phone taking notes. And I made-- and then I realized I was going to use all these stuff and then I had to start pitching ideas where I wanted to go, you know. Japan was when I had pitched, because I'd thought I mean if you go there and I needed to go India which is hard to get to, and I forget where I was going with this. It was great. I needed the dinosaur. Oh, I made-- I have two rules for myself in writing the book. One was that I could not put in any physical detail that I had not written down in my notes. So, I-- so, none of the characters are true in the book and those things didn't happen, but every little rock and like tree and everything was real. I took down in my-- it's because I didn't want to write like a fantasy over foreign country and get caught up in any cliches or stereotypes. I wanted to write down only what was actually there. And the second one was that the joke always had to be on Arthur. I couldn't make fun of the country he's visiting because I discovered, of course, going to these places that every one there, everything was running perfectly fine. I was the thing that was wrong, you know. If I couldn't catch the bus, it was because I hadn't figured it out the system. That because the system was crazy. And that's easy to do. >> Roswell Encina: It's such a good point here. How much of your personal life are in your books? I mean, are you more like Arthur? Are you more like Carlos? I think everybody has a Carlos in their life, you know. Or more of a Freddie or [inaudible], so. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Oh my word? Well, I think most writers would say, no, all part of me. But this, book, I am a lot like Arthur because I have to really admit even I have a bright blue suit myself. >> Roswell Encina: And you wore that in your PBS interview. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Yeah, I wore it to my PBS interview. I would have brought it here but it's really warm. It was supposed to be a summer white suit but it's really, really warm, so. >> Roswell Encina: Any inspiration from the other people, the other characters in your books from any other people? >> Andrew Sean Greer: Some are real and some are not at all. And I hope you can't tell the difference. My husband can't. He got very jealous of Javier. And I'm like, it's not a real person, it's not real, like it's a complete invention, and like he didn't notice the real people in the book at all. But like some people did because I will borrow like a dress from a friend of mine and put it in on the character, Zora. She's dressed just like a friend of mine. But she's not like her any other way, but my friend recognized the dress and she said-- thank me for putting her in the book. But it's not her, I know-- my mom always thinks it's her if there's a mom in the book. >> Roswell Encina: There is a conundrum here in the book that I guess faces a lot of generation X game that is the first time we don't know what the future is because I guess the generation before us it's when the AIDS epidemic hit, so we don't know what to do when we get old. And you confronted this and I haven't even thought about it until I read it on the book. Where did that come from? I mean, I feel like it is very true and it's very relatable. But what do we do? How do we get old? >> Andrew Sean Greer: I don't know where it came. I was something I had been thinking about. When the serious version of the book, that's what I really thought about of-- I certainly have older male friends with HIV who sort of survived that. They're doing great, young friends with HIV. But, you know, we live through a time where we watch a generation died tens of thousands of men. And those men were the first men who were out and proud in the world and making art and, of course, that's all, that's all lost, so we never got to see tons of men get old. And I guess dignified is what we're supposed to get. I'm not sure, because it's-- I guess we should get dignified. >> Roswell Encina: Yeah. >> Andrew Sean Greer: I started to try to buy clothes that aren't as tight. [ Laughter ] These pants aren't a very good example. >> Roswell Encina: Yeah. There's a line here that says, Arthur Less is the first ever homosexual to grow old. >> Andrew Sean Greer: See, it's overstated. Humor, yeah. >> Roswell Encina: He's never seen any gay man age past 50, none except Robert. He met them all at 40 or so but never saw them make it much beyond. They died of AIDS, that generation, lest, this generation almost often feels like the first to explore the land beyond 50. How are they meant to do it? I think we're all trying to answer that question. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Well, what do you think? What your plan? >> Roswell Encina: I don't know either. Actually, I may have to go on a trip around the world. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Trip around the world. >> Roswell Encina: And discover myself. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Yeah. I mean it's-- one good thing about being our generation is I think we came out at a time where we were-- had to like make sac-- real sacrifices to come out and the sacrifice would be like, I guess I'm just going to be myself. And so that seems like a good pattern to go forward is to-- I mean watch out. I would be more and more myself as I get older. Not to become conservative in some way and fade in because that was never what we were ever doing. But I don't know what that would look like. I mean it's-- it was-- I think it was a political plan to be defiantly joyous, you know, in the face of-- I remember marching on Washington in the AIDS epidemic, and our signs were-- everyone was like, like people wearing dragon, you would have signs that would say, you know, high heels not tank wheels, you know, stop the Gulf War kind of thing like we were funnier than everyone else. And that's still my plan like I don't know if that's going to work but it's all I've got. You know, that's what I learned in those battles was to like dress brightly and like kiss openly and be funny and unapologetic, but be kind and empathetic. That's my plan. >> Roswell Encina: I may have to acknowledge it. >> Andrew Sean Greer: See? Look at the shirt. Look, this is how it's going, right? [ Applause ] >> Roswell Encina: Should be more opposite in my white t-shirt. I heard somebody say this like the past couple months that this is like a man's "Eat, Pray, Love". Do you agree with that assessment? >> Andrew Sean Greer: Oh, eat, gay, love. >> Roswell Encina: I don't agree, right? But I want to see if you'd think about it. >> Andrew Sean Greer: I haven't read "Eat, Pray, Love", so I don't know. But I specifically like he goes to India but he does not have a spiritual experience of any kind. And I spec-- in fact, I specifically-- he gets himself, he thinks he's going to have this amazing like spiritual Indian experience, but he books himself into a loser and retreat scent. [ Laughter ] So he doesn't-- but, you know, come across the-- his sort of stereotype of what it's going to be. He has a different experience. You know, I did that specifically so that he wouldn't have a spiritual moment. It's just him facing himself, so. But I guess there must be like an emotional resolution at the end and I guess, love. There's no eating to speak of. >> Roswell Encina: Well, he ate in Japan a lot. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Yeah, but that's the end. >> Roswell Encina: Yeah. >> Andrew Sean Greer: That's like love-- >> Roswell Encina: Yeah. >> Andrew Sean Greer: -- love-eat, love-eat, love-eat, love-eat. [ Laughter ] >> Roswell Encina: Time has a lot to do with a lot of your books. This one's aging. I guess Max Tivoli is aging-ish. Is that a conscious decision? >> Andrew Sean Greer: I remember sitting next to him on a plane like 10 years ago or something and she asked me what-- you know, you have that conversation of like what do you do? I'm a writer. What kind of writer? I'm a novelist. What kind of novels? Fiction. There's no other kind of novel. I see how this is going to go. And she's-- And then she said, well what do you write about? And I said love in the passage of time. And damn if I wasn't right, the whole like it's been pretty consistent, but I don't know why. I don't know. I wish I didn't think about that all the time. >> Roswell Encina: Before we take questions from the audience, has this been-- have you been approached to turn this book into a movie or like HBO miniseries? It could be like big little lies like each country is an episode. And have you, do you-- >> Andrew Sean Greer: All right, do you want to produce it-- >> Roswell Encina: Well-- >> Andrew Sean Greer: -- Roswell? >> Roswell Encina: Produced by the Library of Congress, yes. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Oh produced by Library of Congress. I don't know if I'm allowed to talk about it right now. >> Roswell Encina: Oh boy. That's a little hint, right? >> Andrew Sean Greer: This could be exciting. >> Roswell Encina: Yes. >> Andrew Sean Greer: If it happens. That's the thing about Hollywood like-- >> Roswell Encina: Who do yo picture of playing the roles, like who do you picture as Arthur? >> Andrew Sean Greer: I'm not very good at that. I was trying to-- like cast it in my head but just I'm not very good because you're like Neil Patrick Harris, right? >> Roswell Encina: Yes. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Seems obvious. >> Roswell Encina: A good friend of mine says, maybe Jude Law too. Do you agree? >> Andrew Sean Greer: Oh Jude Law? Sure. But also in my mind, it was like-- why couldn't Daniel Craig give it a shot, you know, like cast against type. >> Roswell Encina: I think Robert could also be like a Richard Chamberlain from the '80s too. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Oh that sounds great. I mean I think Robert is exciting -- >> Roswell Encina: "Thorn Birds" like Richard Chamberlain, so. >> Andrew Sean Greer: -- Thorn Bird, yeah. I haven't cast it in my head. >> Roswell Encina: I think I'm over-- >> Andrew Sean Greer: Do you have more casting ideas from you? >> Roswell Encina: Let me think about it. >> Andrew Sean Greer: And Fred is like 35 year olds dark curly hair. >> Roswell Encina: Maybe the guy from "Entourage". What's his name? Adrian-- what's his name? >> Andrew Sean Greer: Great. >> Roswell Encina: Yes, anyway though. Let's keep going on. OK. Now have to do questions. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Yeah, any ideas. >> Roswell Encina: We have two microphones right here to the side. Oh then we'll keep on chatting while people are-- >> Andrew Sean Greer: Like come up to the microphones as slowly as you need to. >> Roswell Encina: While we're waiting, there-- there's been a lot of debate about the gay novel. Should it be-- should we keep on calling them a gay novel? Considering I feel like literature we've come more mainstream compared to movies and TV shows that the main character in books have like for-- I'd say for years, there's always been a gay character. Should we stop calling them gay novels or gay books? >> Andrew Sean Greer: There's a reader who set main Instagram photo of her book from the library, "Less" and on the side of it had a big sticker that said, gay. [ Laughter ] It's like-- like it needs a sticker. But-- and I was-- I found myself really upset because I was like am I in some other part of the book store? Because in her take she was like, look at my progressive book story that labeled the gay book the way it is. And I wrote back and I said, just ask them if I'm next to the other Pulitzer Prize winners. And whatever section there is, I'm assuming they have multiple copies, you know [applause]. That's all, because I think those labels are for librarians to decide. And that-- we're going to-- because look some of the greatest stories are-- Andre Aciman is not a gay man, but he wrote an amazing, I guess gay novel, you know? But what do you call it at that point? Or like Annie Proulx, we celebrated here has one of the great gay love stories-- >> Roswell Encina: And Albertalli's [assumed spelling]-- she's a young woman who wrote about teenage gay. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Yeah. >> Roswell Encina: OK. >> Andrew Sean Greer: It's so-- it's, it's um-- then you don't really know who gets to be in that category and I think as long as-- during Prague Week, they get brought out, have a nice display, MO for that. Then anything could go in that display that celebrates. And I also-- the gay novel feels old fashion because it focuses so much on men. And that certainly-- I don't need to see literally myself in a book to feel moved and like my experiences being-- is being celebrated. So you would want it to be a book of-- that reaches out to people who feel hidden and not understood and like the story hasn't been told. And there's lots of those, so. >> Roswell Encina: There's plenty. Well, speaking of plenty, we've got some questions here. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Oh yeah. >> So spoiler alert, I want to talk a little bit about the end of the book. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Oh dear, oh no. [ Laughter ] Everyone has read it. Can we do it vaguely? Can we be abstract? >> I will do my best. >> Andrew Sean Greer: OK. Be very-- >> I'm gone, I'm done. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Wait, comment? Oh no. Do you want to whisper it in my ear and I'll be abstractly answer it? >> Roswell Encina: Well, let me-- well-- >> Andrew Sean Greer: Do you want to know whether I planned it from the beginning? [Inaudible]. All right. >> Roswell Encina: Let's move without giving it away. The narrator here is the big mystery. Was that a conscious decision to keep that little mystery going throughout the book? >> Andrew Sean Greer: Yeah, it's actually-- I have to give credit to Vladimir Nabokov for his book "Pnin" which has a similar device in it. And there's-- it's-- and other books do that. And I also like that there's an old fashion narrator who says I like the first time that I met the character, which is something like books a hundred years ago used to do. So there's this play of this, there are first person narrator or third person narrator throughout the book which I think I irritated some readers initially, but I think they got over it. They're fine now. Here's one here. Did that answer your quest-- look, anyway, talk to me later. We should have not booed her. No. Celebrate her, that was excellent. >> Oh, hi. Oh my god, so I finished "Less" about two weeks ago and I loved it. And I know that this question is probably kind of cliché but if I was going to ask anyone I want to ask you. What advice would you give to aspiring authors? >> Andrew Sean Greer: You're an aspiring author. Oh my gosh, I mean, enjoy the hell out of it, I think, and trying new things. And I know this sounds like weird advice, but I don't think you should be afraid to mimic things or write fan fiction if that finds you like in the way that like art students go and they copy Rembrandt or something. I don't think you should be nervous about that as long as you openly say what you're sort of learning from. You don't have to appear suddenly with your own brand new voice talking about things no ones ever talked about before. The way you get there is by reading a lot is the main thing and a variety of things. And finding the ones that really respond-- you respond to and not the ones that people tell you to respond to, but the ones that you really do like I like to take my students, I give them each a $5 bill, someone like 15 students but still. And we go to used bookstore and I tell them to buy a book they solely-- that they've never heard of before based on the cover and what they read and see on the back, something that just calls to them in some way. And if you do that, you'll build some sort of special library, all your own. And then you'll end up sounding like yourself because your influences would be the ones that you chose for yourself. But mostly, just try do things all the time. Enjoy yourself, yeah. >> Thank you so much. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Yeah. [ Applause ] Was that too like dreamy, an answer? I was, no, that's the answer. >> Your friends at Green Acres want to say hi. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Sorry? >> Your friends at Green Acres, do you remember? >> Andrew Sean Greer: Yeah, of course, I remember Green Acres. >> So hi. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Well, hi. Oh wait, is it Susan? You're back. Oh this is, oh my god, Susan, hi. Wait come up, let me give you a hug. Oop, uh-oh. She's my English teacher from middle school. [ Applause and Cheering ] And she's talking to my English teacher from high school, Allison right in the front row, oh my god. [ Applause ] We'll get a picture altogether afterwards. How amazing, I just saw Allison in New Hampshire and it's-- it was delightful. >> Roswell Encina: Tom Weld said you can't go home. >> Just-- >> Andrew Sean Greer: Do I also know you? What's happening? >> I'm too old. I recently finish reading "Less" and just before that, I had read a book about the love life of Gore Vidal. And it was late-- there's several books I've read about Gore Vidal and by Gore Vidal. And after listening to you, I have to say, thank goodness, you are not going to wind up my Gore Vidal. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Because he was so bitter. >> So bitter and sad. And Gore Vidal went though his life saying he was not gay and then he was infuriated if he was called a gay novelist. You know, don't-- it seems like you don't care if you're called a gay novelist, you're just going to write what you think is right for you to write. And all I've got to say is that's the best approach. You won't wind up old and bitter and alone like Gore Vidal. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Thank you [applause]. But there's still time for me to do that, but I give-- for me, I feel like there was a generation of the great male writers that were all in competition with each other. And Norman Mailer and like they all were-- they didn't seem to have ended up very happy from it. >> No. >> Andrew Sean Greer: And when I moved to San Francisco, there was a community there of writers who were open and generous and didn't care about rank and it was Amy Tan who's here right now, and Armistead Maupin and Michael Chabon and Dave Eggers and Daniel Handler and Khaled Hosseini who were all supporting each other. They were not in competition at all. And that taught me how writers are supposed to be with one another. And it is how writers-- I see them right now like Min Jin Lee and I have never met but we talked on Twitter and we were so excited to meet each other right now because we're fans of each other, we're not in competition because she sells way more books anyway but like-- I would prefer to be in that world and there must be another, well, but writers are bitter and angry and I don't want to participate in. It doesn't seem like it mix with books. >> Thank you. >> Andrew Sean Greer: They're better old age. [ Applause ] And someone's like such a Pollyanna today, I don't know, but I'm just-- I'm in a very good mood ever since April, yeah. >> I'm thinking less-- about "Less", but this question more I think about a story of a marriage and a few of your other books. But, when you're writing from the perspective of a character who's not very much like yourself, how do you get into that mindset? And is that a challenge for you or how do you go about doing that? >> Andrew Sean Greer: Well, to me, I feel like it's my job to write about people not like myself. It feels like that that fiction is to try to have empathy for people especially people you disagree with. But also to represent other people in the world that you see with diligence. And that means a lot of thought. And one thing you're touching on is something that's a touchy topic right now among novelist which is about representation of people who are different racial ethnic groups that like how do we dare represent them. And I think it's a conversation that is not over yet. But, certainly, it calls upon us to be basically decent people and good writers like you're supposed to write real people who come alive on the page and that the reader connects with and sees their flaws and their good points like a person. That's the job as a writer. And so, anyone who just dashes off like I'm going to put in a sassy drag queen waiter, like you haven't thought about long enough. But that's just your job anyway, like you should be thinking about the characters more than the metaphors. But I think it's sloppy to-- but-- so I think really hard. Like this book I really lost a lot of sleep putting my-- sending my character to other countries, like a lot of sleep. And so I just try to be really diligent and not making any character like a throwaway because I wouldn't want to have throwaway human being, so I just-- anxiety and doubt helps you make characters maybe. Does that answer it? >> Yeah, yeah. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Thank you for asking that. >> Alex: Hi. My name is Alex and I also went to college in Montana and that's when I was-- >> Andrew Sean Greer: Yeah, where did you go? >> Alex: Montana State. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Awesome. >> Alex: So-- yeah, but I spend a lot of time in Missoula. And it's not always the place, we have like a lot of drag branches or rainbow flags. So I'm wondering if any of your experiences going to school there made it into this book, and if not, how living in Montana kind of impacted you as a developing writer? >> Andrew Sean Greer: This is-- No one's ever asked me this before. I went to graduate school at the University of Montana, in Missoula, Montana for a few years. And it was a great experience. But it was strange. I remember people would say to me, I've never met a gay person before. What's it like? [ Laughter ] And I had just move from the West Village which was at that point, the gay part of New York and I'm going to be like, what's it like? I don't know, it's great and terrible and what's it like for you, and I'm just-- yeah, I get different experience. Or I did-- I mean this will sound familiar that like, you know, like one morning, I had to word fags keyed in to the front of my car. And more upset than me were my straight friends who had never seen this before and like sanded it off all day for me and they were to get back and I'm like, it's like, it's not OK but like it's a shitty car anyway. So thank you for sanding it down. But I had to learn in Montana. You're not going to believe it how to butch it up a little bit in like a bar like [inaudible] bar which was a tough one. And which was funny to see that I could if I bought the right clothes, I can totally pass and like play pool and things. And it was interesting to see that I didn't have to be in like a bubble of a ghetto like the West Village was to find people-- actually, I was with other writers and I felt like I had more in common with them than I did the man I was meeting in the bars in the West Village. And in Montana, people who were willing to take me out camping and who were adventurous and open minded and explorative, and I felt like I found my people there. Weirdly, even though it wasn't easy to be openly gay, it was easy to be yourself in a different way. So, I loved it. Do you like DC better? >> There's a lot more men here, so that's great. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Yeah. >> Thank you so much. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Yeah, the food was terrible though, I always hear that, you know. [ Laughter ] >> Roswell Encina: We have one question on this side. >> Yes, I'm a middle age woman, if I plan to live to be over a 120. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Yeah! >> So I just want to say that as an older-than-middle-age black woman, I absolutely love that book. I loved every moment of it and there's a certain universality to it that was wonderful. I read it and I spoke to my husband who also would have to live to be 140 to be middle age now. And he was so happy for me. So when I was getting ready to come today, he was so excited for me. And I just wanted to kind of share that with you. So that's my little gift. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Thank you so much. [ Applause ] >> Roswell Encina: Andrew, do you think you could have read this book like maybe 10 years ago, 20 years ago or do you think the tone of the country helps? >> Andrew Sean Greer: Well now, I finished the book before 2016 but as-- >> Roswell Encina: Not today's country, yeah. >> Andrew Sean Greer: But that doesn't mean I didn't feel the tone of the country and I think what-- I didn't know then that people have told me was that they needed to read a book that was, I guess, uplifting without lying to them about the way things are. And I deserve that for myself. And I can't tell you what it means to have written something like that and to have people write me and say, people tell me how humane it is. And I-- that's the best complement to me when they say that they've sort of felt good about other people. And I don't really know how that happens from that book, but I feel like I can take credit for it. I think people are in such a bad way right now and what-- you pick up the news everyday and you say, God damn it. That, you could go to something that feels like maybe reminds you of what you would really like to be. I don't know how to talk about that. >> Roswell Encina: You've got a little life shirt on. >> I sure do. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Oh yeah you do. >> Is that OK? >> Roswell Encina: Oh yes. >> It don't make "Less" shirts though. >> Roswell Encina: OK, we'll take your question. >> Andrew Sean Greer: I should do that. >> So I've really love the way the last-- the book end especially the last word of bucket, so smart-- >> Andrew Sean Greer: Don't give it away though. >> So, I'm not giving-- I didn't say the word but I wanted to know when in the writing process you knew how you wanted to end it and how you wanted-- the specific words choices you've used for the ending to be used. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Now, this is a kind of question readers-- writers really like and readers are very bored by which is a technical question about language because we spent a lot of time on it and then we spend a lot of time trying for you not to notice we spent all the time on it. But I will say that I wanted it to-- now it's going to give away that I wanted-- it won't give away to the audience but you-- I wanted to joke on the ending of Joyce's Ulysses, and the way Molly Bloom's speech ends there. And that's kind of-- I based the rhythm of it all on that. And I thought is this just too much? Can I really do this? But my editor didn't stop me and I'm like, I'm just going to publish it that way. Because I just thought it would over the top but like knowing that it's a little absurd and-- why not? Yeah. >> Thank you. >> Rowell Encina: Yeah, we'll take this side. >> Hi, I'm a public librarian locally and I've always wanted to-- [ Applause and Cheering ] -- hope my mother will be so pleased with this applause right now. I've always wanted to share with an author, you see how your book sales and everything. But I was lucky enough to pick up your book right when it came in because I can see clearly just kind of take it home before it gets processed. >> Andrew Sean Greer: You can't do that. >> But you see your book sales but I have not seen your book on our shelf and it has over 200 holds on it countywide. We own about a hundred copies and we keep having to buy more and more and more. We just got our large type print in-- of your book and I don't know that you see those-- >> Andrew Sean Greer: I haven't seen the large type-- oh my god. >> It looks the same but bigger. >> Andrew Sean Greer: OK. >> So I don't know that authors ever learn that, but it's you, people who are not purchasing your book. That is how there still over 200 people on hold for it. So thank you. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Thank you. >> I felt-- after reading your book, it was lovely. But I felt lovely after finishing your book. So thank you. >> Rowell Encina: Thank you. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Wow, a librarian, ladies and gentlemen. >> Roswell Encina: We'll take one last question. >> Hi, just another word nerd question. Why did you choose the word-- the name "Less" and were there any other names or adjectives that you had considered for naming a character? >> Andrew Sean Greer: I never considered another name for-- It was mostly-- now it seems like it's maybe a little too on the nose but at that time, it was to remind myself that I was trying to torture the character and produce his ego and his stature so I could get him. Because I thought-- it's very hard to write a funny book about someone except if you sort of-- you have to take everything away to give it back to them. Because the other thing about a funny book is, you have to kind of know from the beginning that it's going to turn out all right because otherwise it's sort of a cruel book. So-- And then I just-- the name stuck with me and no one stopped me so, again, yeah. >> Roswell Encina: We'll squeeze in one quick question? >> Hi. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Hi. >> So "Less" was really enjoyable to read and like many people in the audience, we want to read more. So are there titles that you can recommend the same vain as "Less" that are near and dear to you? >> Andrew Sean Greer: Oh well, that's a good question. The same vain gives you the same kind of feeling like-- >> Yes. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Because there's other comic novels recently like Paul Beatty's the "Sellout". I think Lorrie Moore who was here somewhere is the funniest writer I know. Also there are sad funny stories but she's a master of them. And I was reading, I think "Pnin" is funny but it's cruel. [Inaudible] books are very funny. Weirdly, I've been reading Graham Greene books recently because on my next book I'm hoping to make also a comic novel. "Travels with my Aunt", I find to be a book that makes me feel really wonderful about life. And we don't think of Graham Greene doing that but I think he did it in that book. >> Thank you. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Yeah. >> Roswell Encima: I'll ask the last question. So, you said you're 47, any big plans when you turn 50? A friend of mine gave me an idea to have a party at different country or different city for each decade of my life, so. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Oh I thought your friend had an idea for my party. >> Roswell Encima: Oh yeah. Well, there's that. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Oh we could, when do you turn 50? >> Roswell Encima: I don't want to share it with like 500 people. Like in two years when I turn 50. >> Andrew Sean Greer: So close. >> Roswell Encima: Yes. >> Andrew Sean Greer: Were-- it's very close. I've got-- don't know. I've been to a lot of 50th birthday parties, and the first friend who've-- turns 50, you like flight it to loom and you're in an island and you're-- get drunk and, you know, there's costumes. And then eventually, people like meet me at the bar at 6. [ Laughter ] So I think I'm like the last one. So it'll be more like that maybe. >> Roswell Encima: Oh. >> Andrew Sean Greer: No it won't-- >> Roswell Encima: No, it's going to be fun. Well, thank you everyone. I hope you go see Andrew downstairs. >> Andrew Sean Greer: And thank you to Roswell for doing this. [ Applause ]