[ Music ] >> Announcer: Sponsored by the James Madison Council and the Institute of Museum and Library Services, and the National Endowment for the Humanities. >> María Elena Salinas: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the 2021 Library of Congress National Book Festival. I'm María Elena Salinas, independent journalist and producer, and your moderator for these great interviews. I'm very excited to be here and I'm really looking forward to an amazing conversation with two very prominent Latino authors, and may I remind you that you will have the opportunity to ask our authors questions at the end of our conversation. So let me introduce them. Maria Hinojosa, one of the most prominent and respected Latina journalists in the country, host and executive producer of NPR's award-winning Latino USA, co-host of the political podcast In the Thick, founder and CEO of Futuro Media, author of Once I Was You: A Memoir of Love and Hate in a Torn America, and someone I'm fortunate to call my friend. [Foreign word], Maria. [Foreign phrase] Noé Álvarez hails from a family of working-class Mexican immigrants. His debut memoir Spirit Run: A 6,000 Mile Marathon through North America's Stolen Land chronicles his upbringing in Yakima, Washington and his experience in the peace and dignity journeys, a spiritual marathon that unites Indigenous runners across. [Foreign word], Noe. Welcome. >> Noé Álvarez: Pleasure to be here. >> María Elena Salinas: Let's dig in now. Welcome now to both of you, and Maria, you were born in Mexico as we know. Noe, you were born in the state of Washington but are the son of Mexican immigrants. Given that this book festival coincides with Hispanic Heritage Month, tell me what your book means for your cultural identity. Maria, you want to start? >> Maria Hinojosa: Huh, that's interesting, María. But you know, first, it's so great to be here with you, [foreign phrase], and to be with Noé, a fellow runner. Okay, I need to get back to running, but okay. Look, I think for me, this book is actually me coming to terms with this country, my adopted country, because I was born in Mexico. So for my identity, it's kind of owning my full self in that as a Mexican woman who identifies also as North American, as part of the United States because I'm an American citizen, this book is my opportunity to hold this country accountable while also, on the other side, there's the very intimate stuff of being a Latina, being the first in many of the newsrooms where I worked -- in all the newsrooms where I worked -- and in that sense, it's about creating a community so that other young women and men who want to be journalists or who are immigrants like me have an opportunity to see themselves in this book. >> María Elena Salinas: Right. Noé, what about you? What does your book mean for your cultural identity? >> Noé Álvarez: That's a great question. I think that's a work in progress. It's an ongoing battle, I think, for people such as myself where we sort of live in this middle space of, you know, your parents' reality who are from Mexico and then you know trying to establish yourself here in the United States. So I think for me, it's a book that I wrote from the perspective of being left out, of living on the margins, and trying to find your place on a land that didn't always want you there, didn't always tell you that you belong there. So for me, it's sort of about finding your place in movement and in running and finding healing in the stories that your people bring to it. >> María Elena Salinas: And you felt that way even though you were born in the United States. >> Noé Álvarez: Yes. You know, I mean, my upbringing wasn't, you know, it was a mixed upbringing, right? I grew up with Mexican immigrant parents who labored in the fields and, you know, I was out there, you know, I was babysat in the fields, and I would help my parents however I could. And their message was always, get out. You know? Do better. So for me, I didn't know what that looked like. I didn't know what that was. I didn't know what was available to me. I had to find myself. I had to find my place and try to honor my parents' migration by enacting in a similar path, in a similar journey, and getting out and finding that medicine in other people's stories. So yeah, I very strongly connect to the origins of Mexico, my people. You know, we have a strong connection, but I always was aware that I wasn't from there. So I was, you know, I was contemplating with all the different ways that we as a people are displaced, how we're displaced in our story, how we're displaced in our bodies, how were displaced from the land, and how we're forced to work the land in a certain way that sort of severs our relationship, our spiritual connection to our land. And so I wanted to reconnect myself to the land, and I wanted to reconnect to my story in ways that made me feel proud of who I was. Because it wasn't always something to be proud of, at least the way I grew up, to be like a Mexican migrant, right? There was some sort of baggage around that, around what it meant to be a field worker. And so my dad said just, get out, you know, do better than me. So, that was kind of a hangup for me and that's sort of been my journey, and so it's sort of kind of circling back to what it means to be, you know, from a certain community, what it means to be Latino, indigenous, and working-class, and being proud of that. >> María Elena Salinas: Right. Maria, while your book highlights the plight of immigrants such as the one that you and your family lived through, it's also very personal where you reveal very intimate things that you went through. Why was it important for you to share that? >> Maria Hinojosa: You know, María Elena, I wasn't expecting to share all of those things. When you're writing a memoir like this, you're doing a lot of -- you know, it's a little bit like therapy. I had a lot of communication with my dad, may he rest in peace, Dr. Raul Hinojosa, as I was writing. And you know, the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court, Dr. Christine Blasey Ford talking about her experience of surviving sexual assault, you know, in the process of losing my best friend, my dad, and my cousin, my marriage kind of like, you know, at the brink -- and so all of that was happening just before I start writing the book. And when I'm writing the book, I'm writing the story of my life and it was like this was -- this was important stuff. Thank God I had already started processing that I was a survivor of rape. I had already started doing the work, and I think it's because, María Elena, [foreign phrase], you and I have the possibility to feel very comfortable in our voices because we've been doing this a while. And I feel like I wanted other women who have been through this -- and men, too, in the sense that anyone can be a victim of rape, and I wanted people to feel seen. I wanted them to feel heard, and I wanted them to know that there's [foreign phrase]. If you actually deal with the situation. And this goes to that. I also wrote about impostor syndrome. A lot of people are like, but you're so successful. Why would you want to reveal that you battled insecurity throughout your entire career? And I'm like, because I don't want other people to have to go through this. It's a lot of wasted energy. >> María Elena Salinas: Right, yeah. I don't think people understand that the impostor syndrome is a thing. It's very real. Noé, I want to talk to you a little bit about what drove you to do this. So why did you take a break from college and join the Peace and Dignity Journey? Were you going through an existential crisis? I mean, by this point you had -- you were already in college. So what was it? Was there a breaking point, or is this something that you had been contemplating for a while? >> Noé Álvarez: No, I mean, I think I -- my whole journey had been getting into college and I never thought that I would get in. And when I got in, I just I wasn't ready, and I didn't know what that meant, and I felt sort of this shame and sort of abandoning my family that my whole reason for getting into college was to save the family and the whole pressure of having to be, one, to try to help my family out of these tough circumstances really crushed me. And so I was 19 years old. Going home was not an option for me. I really didn't want to be a failure in my family's eye. And so this moment when I was 19 years old happened to coincide with the movement of Peace and Dignity journeys, and I said, this is the education that I need. This is the education that I've been missing. Not in the books but out there, traveling, traversing lands, and amongst the elders, and sitting with people to tell you their stories about where they're from. And so I was lacking that. You know, so much had gotten lost on the journey that my parents took to Mexico. So much had to be abandoned, so much had to be left behind, right? And so my parents were protecting me by the stories that they told me and the stories that they didn't. So I felt that it was my obligation to find healing in our story and to recuperate those fragments that get lost in migration by engaging in the very active of movement that my parents did. So they ran north, and I enjoyed a movement directly south back into the origin story, because without it, I couldn't continue. I couldn't, you know, I'd be lost out there in the world and so I needed to find the framework of, you know, the core of who I was before I can do anything in the world. And college is sort of -- was a moment for me where I asked myself a lot of questions and I -- when someone said you can run across North America in the wild, I said, this is crazy, I have to do it. >> María Elena Salinas: It is crazy. I mean, what was that like? I can't do more than three miles honestly, and walking, not even running. So I can imagine 6,000 miles was not easy. What was it like? What did you confront that was unexpected? >> Noé Álvarez: Every day was different, but there's a saying on the run. You know, running was the easy part. It was really my, you know, the difficulty was contending with your own self, with your own realities, with your own emotions. Every day was a different reason to run. Every day you experience a different emotion. One day you would think about your mom. You dedicate that run to your mom. The next day to your dad. And so we were running for stories. We were running to recuperate those stories and our place in those stories in the land specifically because we are land-based people. Our religion is land-based. So if you remove a mountain, if you destroy and contaminate a river, you're contaminating our stories. So you're destroying our origin stories. So, we were refusing to let go and to get displaced. And so it was hard. It was hard, but it was also difficult contending with the people that you were meeting every day and trying to hold the strong spirit for the sake of other people. We were messengers carrying bundles of stories that represented countless stories of the struggles in our communities. Drug addiction, you know, loss of language -- all of that we were contending with in these feathered staffs that we carried that were visual reminders of obligation to our community, visual reminders of the responsibility we have to our people. And so it was a lot of weight, but I needed to be there. That was a journey that I needed to be on, and it changed my life. >> María Elena Salinas: Wow. Maria, going back to you, you described in your book that you and your family went through or what you went when you arrived here to the US, but also you've been covering the immigration issue for decades. Has anything changed? Have we evolved as a country in dealing with this issue? And I ask you this when I was just watching the news a few minutes ago, watching how there's tens of thousands of Haitians at the border and they're now, as we speak, being flown back to their country. And that's just today. If we look in the last few years, it's been mostly Central Americans. Has anything changed from what you experienced when you arrived? >> Maria Hinojosa: It's gotten worse. It's gotten worse. I'm so -- often I'm asked the question, how do you do what you do? Because you're doing the frontline reporting and you're with a lot of trauma all the time. And so part of what I do is that I go away and I spend the weekend in nature. You know, I try to disconnect. And so you know when I do check in today, I'm horrified by my fellow journalists putting these photographs, these videos of desperate people, I don't think -- part of what's happening now when we're seeing these images is precisely, when you ask what's changed is that the level of dehumanization has only increased. So what Noé did, and I'm so thankful and honored to be here on this panel with you, Noé, as a Latino or Latina, as someone connected to the earth and as someone who also lives on stories, I'm really, really happy to be here with you. Because the other side of that is this kind of -- and I'm going to use a term -- "gaslighting." I just wrote an essay for my bulletin which is a weekly newsletter I have called [foreign word], and I was talking precisely about how, you know, the images are incorrect. And today, María Elena, that [foreign word] these are people who are -- who got out because there was an earthquake, because there is climate change, because -- and you can replace Haiti with Honduras or Guatemala, and people will still come. And my question is -- and I know you have the same question -- [foreign phrase]? Is there really not room? Because as far as we know, if you look at the demographics of this country, half of the population growth in total population growth in the United States over the last 10 years was because of Latino and Latina births in the United States, not through migration. And we're okay. Imagine now that this kind, that in fact refugees, the Haitian people coming, actually they are an essential part of lifting up the American economy. That would be a change, María Elena, to be able to say, oh wow, we have a totally different narrative around immigrants and refugees. We understand that, in fact, they are an essential part of our country. And if they are coming from Afghanistan, we will also welcome them. And if they are coming from Honduras, we will welcome them. Because, I don't know, that's what the Statue of Liberty says, and she's just a stone's throw from where I'm sitting right now in Harlem, New York City. So, I'm sorry that I get so revved up because I'm desperate. The situation is getting worse, and this is not the past administration. So you know, cruelty may not be the point, but cruelty is still occurring because of bad choices around immigration and refugees. And frankly -- I'm sorry to say this. Trigger warning. But I'm sorry, I really am, but I also feel like we have to acknowledge this comes down from white supremacy. It is a sense that, oh, this country is for us and not for you. And it's like actually, this country was an indigenous country first. Then people who spoke Spanish arrived here. We don't read about that in the history book. Then the pilgrims arrived. So this country should be for all of us. >> María Elena Salinas: I have a question for both of you, and you both have very unique voices. As the Latino community continues to grow, you know, we're already the largest minority in the country, the second-largest voting block, Latino voices and perspective become more important and more relevant. What do you want people to know about the importance of those perspectives? Noé, let's start with you. >> Noé Álvarez: I think we're finally -- I mean, with this run that I write about, it's a spirit run, and what that means is that we're on a listening journey, and I think that's the heart of it. The world is fragmented right now, but I want people to know that there is incredible energy in the fragments. And I think the way we are channeling that energy is through our words. And it is important to capture the complexity of voice of the Latino, indigenous, and the working-class community. And we're doing it over the page. We're doing it in different forms, but we need to do it. We need to get out there. We need to bring healing and we need to confront our pain and our trauma. So yeah, I think the time is right. I think we are just sort of just tired of being displaced. You know, in literature, you know, we need to speak our truth, and we need to get it out there. But we also need to sort of do it in such a way that complicates our narrative, because nothing is black and white. And I think that's what makes our stories beautiful is that we are many realities. There's many layers to what it means to be Latino working-class and what it means to be from the US or from Mexico. Things are so complicated now, and that's beautiful and messy, and so I'm just trying to capture the beautiful mess that is our human condition, and I think that's why it's important to capture as many voices as we can, because I think it's imperative that we continue to be on this listening journey. Because I don't think we've been listening enough to the diversity of voices that are out there, the people who are our very neighbors who can teach us and give us and pass that medicine on to us. >> María Elena Salinas: That's wonderful. Maria, what about you? I know you have some thoughts about that. >> Maria Hinojosa: I forgot. I was so taken by what Noé was saying, I forgot the question. >> María Elena Salinas: Oh. I was asking, you know, how important Latino voices are, not just names and faces but Latino voices -- sorry -- and what you want people to know about the perspective of Latinos and Latino writers, in this case. >> Maria Hinojosa: So I'm obsessed, in this case, with journalists, you know, that, for example, we are -- in many ways, it feels -- invisible. If Latinos are the second largest group in the United States, ethnic/racial, because you know we're not a race. We are racially mixed, but we are the second -- I don't use the term "minority" just because I don't like that term, but yes, for lack of any other term we are the second-largest minority. >> María Elena Salinas: Second largest cohort. >> Maria Hinojosa: Cohort. [Foreign word]. Perfect. Second largest cohort. [Foreign phrase] So when we're talking about Latinos and the future of this country, we're talking about the future of democracy. So if Latinos and Latinas are not being heard, if we are not being engaged on our feelings about everything from the war in Afghanistan, to the economy, to entrepreneurship, to the tech world, to education, to business, to immigration, then there's something wrong. Because we now are essential to keeping this society not only thriving but actually -- again, with the values of democracy. You know, I was writing about the fact that -- you know this, María Elena, and you know this, Noé. You know, in fact, on the one hand -- it's a double-edged sword. On the one hand, there's the beauty of Latinos and Latinas wanting to be there for our parents, to give back to our parents, to make our parents proud, right? It can be also a weight, as you felt, Noé, it was a weight. It was too much, right? But at the same time, like, there's an incredible value in that perspective of like caring for others, putting your [foreign word] first before yourself. And so what Latinos and Latinas, how we think about quote-unquote "family values" is going to be what family values look like in the future in this country. Latinas are the most powerful consumer group in the United States of America. Why? Because we over-index in terms of white women and black women, we are the ones who decide what is consumed in our homes. We are engaged in democracy, but it needs to be even deeper and, in this case, we need people to see us. So as you know, María Elena -- I mean, I got frustrated. I said, I'm just going to create my own media company. I'm going to tell my own stories. But we want the mainstream to be seeing us not because it makes us feel good, but because it's for the future of this country. For the future of this country, the economics, the democracy, the education. One out of every four kindergartners is Latino or Latina. So, sadly, on the other side, what we have been fed is a narrative of fear that immigrants and Latinos are takers. Listen to Noé. His parents were working in the fields at 4:00 in the morning to make sure that we had asparagus and apples. >> María Elena Salinas: Yeah. >> Maria Hinojosa: You know what I'm saying? So, the thing is, is that we're not giving up and our stories continue to be told, but it's a little bit like, why are we still talking about invisibility? It's frustrating. >> María Elena Salinas: You're absolutely right. I'm going to jump right away to the questions from the audience because there are a lot of questions. I don't think we're going to be able to have time for all of them. Maria Pena [phonetic] is asking to either one of you, considering the new census data, are schools doing enough to raise awareness about Hispanic contributions to the US? Noé, you want to take that? >> Noé Álvarez: I'm sorry, I couldn't listen. I didn't hear that question. >> María Elena Salinas: The question from Maria Pena is, considering the new census data, are schools doing enough to raise awareness about Hispanic contributions to the US? >> Noé Álvarez: Oh. I think we can always do more for sure, you know, but we've got to give it to the teachers. They're overworked, working with, you know, little amounts of resources. So I think at the classroom, it starts, you know, that's where it starts to get creative about teaching our youth how to think and not what to think, you know? And I think as long as, you know you're putting all you can into funding our school systems to not leaving any of the kids behind. I think that's all we can ask, but I think it also starts, you know, education is in the home and education is outside of schools. It's, you know, I learned it on the land. I learned it with my elders. And so whatever we can do to diversify our education beyond the classroom I think is important, but I have an admiration for the teachers for what they have to do and endure in our political climate. >> María Elena Salinas: The next question is from Robert McCoy. He says I love hearing about each of your stories. You're both incredible. My question is, what stories as a child inspired you to embrace your culture and heritage? Maria. >> Maria Hinojosa: I mean, I -- this is what Once I Was You is all about, essentially. I am so thankful to my mom and my dad, my he rest in peace, that they kind of authentically knew what to do, and so it wasn't badgering us over the head by saying, "You're a Mexican, and you got to be proud and you got to speak Spanish, and you must" -- No. [Foreign word] we spoke Spanish in the home. We were all born in Mexico, but my parents then would take us every year to Mexico. We would drive from Chicago to Mexico every year, all six of us in the car, and that was solidifying my kind of rootedness with my Latino and Latina identity, very particularly my Mexican identity. Which then I was like, wait a second, there are indigenous people who are alive and they built Teotihuacan, Tenochtitlan, Uxmal, Palenque, Chichen Itza. And then I was like, wow, I'm a descendant of this, too. And it allowed me to kind of really kind of center myself. So all of that gave me a basis, but I actually wanted to jump on something, what Noé said about education. I actually think -- I love what you said about appreciating the teachers, but at the same time, no, this country is not teaching at all about the history and presence of Latinos and Latinas. Apart from indigenous people, the first people to arrive here were not the pilgrims in Jamestown. They were from Spain, speaking Spanish, and they arrived to Southern Florida, St. Augustine, and the second place, a settlement beyond indigenous people, was in Santa Fe, New Mexico. That means that Spanish was spoken here before English. We don't learn that. But imagine, María Elena and Noé, if our kids were learning that -- >> María Elena Salinas: [Inaudible] here in Florida. The Spaniards were here before the settlers. >> Maria Hinojosa: [Foreign word]. So imagine if that was like the headline. If it's like, oh my God, we're going to reteach what's going -- And how -- what that would do to, okay, the pride of people who speak Spanish. Instead, it's like, don't speak Spanish. English is the official language. It's like, what is this? >> María Elena Salinas: Right. Noé, I'm going to throw this question at you. This is from Ana T.: What has your new book meant to your community and your family? And I want you to answer this question particularly because it was really your family that sort of began or pushed you toward this journey. Not that they pushed you, but because of your experience with them, you did it because of them and for them. >> Noé Álvarez: Yeah. No, that's a great question. I'm definitely a product of my environment. You know, those experiences have informed me and I'm thankful today. And I think you'll -- I guess I'd have to ask them, but I think for me, I just wanted to sort of paint this picture sort of ceremoniously, right? What we do as a people is that we come around the fire, and we have conversations, and I just wanted to sort of introduce a conversation so that people can have it, and so that they can see themselves in a lot of these runners and in this story. And I think it was so impactful in that it helped amplify, bring attention to some of these stories that people didn't want to hear about. Didn't want to hear about the warehouse conditions. They didn't want to hear about the farm labor. It was my obligation to put that stuff out there in as much detail as I could, but also trying to find magic and healing in those stories so that people don't feel like that's where we're at and that we're stuck in these scenarios. So I just wanted to sort of show my people of Yakima, show the Latino community, Indigenous community, that there's different ways of restoring your fire, you know, and finding your medicine. And so I think I'm very excited it's been received very well in my community. I battled with outing my family, outing our story, and contending with whether I was the right one to tell it, but at the end of the day, it was my duty to tell it. We can't be quiet anymore, you know, and we have to inspire the youth to step forward and tell their own story. >> María Elena Salinas: Exactly. Well, we have to wrap it up. We only have two minutes left, so I want to ask you a question. And hopefully, we can answer it one minute each. So we know that the theme of the National Book Festival this year is, open a book, open the world. How have your books opened the world for you? Maria? >> Maria Hinojosa: The books that I've written or the books that I've read? >> María Elena Salinas: Well, how have books opened the world? Books in general. >> Maria Hinojosa: You know, I have to say, look, the truth is, is that mom and dad spoke Spanish. All the books in my house were Spanish, and so I didn't have like Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn. Like that wasn't my experience. It took me a while to feel like I could enjoy reading a book or that I should read a book. I've been asked recently, like what were your first books? And I was like Stuart Little, The Outsiders, you know, Dick and Jane. It wasn't until I read Hemingway that I felt like maybe I could in fact maybe write. Not be a writer, but just write. And so for me, books have been a constant companion. I'm always reading for work because I'm getting ready to interview somebody who has written a book, or reading somebody's work, and for me, I don't know. I'm still -- I'm like, I love it in my hands. I love the book in my hands. And they -- I agree. I think this notion of, open a book, open a world, you can go anywhere. And this has been a beautiful conversation, and thank you to all of the viewers and -- >> María Elena Salinas: Thank you, Maria. Can you tell us in 30 seconds, Noé, how books have opened your world? >> Noé Álvarez: Yeah, I didn't grow up with books, so I'm -- but I think it's introduced me to words, it's introduced me to other worlds. It's given me the opportunity to reimagine the circumstances of my world to sort of hold those tragic tales of displacement and then find magic. It's my medicine. It's my therapy. I can't be me without my writing, and so I encourage anyone who has something to say to open those books, expose yourself to other opportunities, other worlds, and you'll find much healing. >> María Elena Salinas: Thank you so much, Noé. Thank you so much, Maria. It was such a pleasure speaking with you and thank you so much to the Library of Congress for holding this festival, for inviting me, of course, to moderate this panel and have the great opportunity of speaking to these two wonderful authors. And I'm so glad that it's not just me that knows you now but it's a lot of people that are watching us now that know how magnificent you both are and how much you contribute. And happy Hispanic Heritage Month. [Foreign phrase] Thank you all. [ Music ]