[ Music ]
>> Male: Sponsored
by the Institute
of Museum and Library Services.
>> Anne Holmes: Good afternoon.
I'm Anne Holmes form
the Library of Congress.
And I am here today
with Trung Le Nguyen.
Hello, Trung, and welcome
to the 2021 Library
of Congress National
Book Festival.
>> Trung Le Nguyen: Hello.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm delighted to be here.
>> Anne Holmes: We're so
happy to have you here.
So, we're here to talk
about your new graphic
novel, 'The Magic Fish.'
Following your national book
festival video on demand.
To our audience, welcome.
You can check out
Trung Le Nguyen's video
on demand at loc.gov/bookfest.
Now it's time for you to ask
our author your questions.
We have up to 30 minutes today.
I have a few questions to start
us off, but it's real your time,
so please start sending your
questions and we'll go as long
as we can to answer anything you
might want to ask our author.
So, Trung, let's get started.
Can you just start by telling
us a bit about 'The Magic Fish,
what it's about and what
inspired you to create it?
>> Trung Le Nguyen: Sure.
'The Magic Fish'
is a graphic novel.
It's about fairy tales
and it's about stories.
It follows the story of
a young boy named Tien
and his mother, Helen.
And they have important things
to share with one another
but there are cultural
and linguistic differences
that they need to
overcome some way.
And it's a story that's
essentially about how
to weather transitions and how
to extend empathy to people
when they're doing their very
best without all of the tools
that might be necessary to make
everything go totally smoothly.
And yeah, it was mostly made
as an excuse to draw all
of my favorite fairy tales.
But as I was writing it
and as I was drawing it,
I became really enamored with
the notion of all the themes
of transition and sacrifice
in a lot of the fairy stories
that I had chosen for the book.
>> Anne Holmes: Yeah,
that's so interesting.
What are some of the fairy
tales that inspired you?
>> Trung Le Nguyen: Sure.
It started with 'The Little
Mermaid' because that's a story
that had always been
really important to me.
That's something that
I had always read
as an immigrant narrative,
and it also really resonated
with me just as a queer author.
It's got a lot of themes
from Hans Christian Andersen
about him in his own life and
expressing feelings for people
who would never be able
to fully return them.
And so, it was written a bit
as a love letter to someone
who didn't love him back.
And so, it resonates
really strongly
with me on a few levels.
And so, I started there.
And then I realized that a lot
of fairy stories about kind
of moving from space to
space and from kind of giving
up the things that you have
in front of you in order
to obtain something better.
All of those things are really
present in a lot of stories,
and I kind of wanted to
explore other stories
that had echoes of that as well.
And so, I kind of went to
the Cinderella stories.
I chose an English/ German
variant of a Cinderella story
to tell at the very beginning
called 'Tatter Coats.'
And in the Middle,
I got an opportunity
to tell the Vietnamese
iteration of Cinderella.
And then kind of allowing those
stories to kind of stand next
to each other really gives
the reader the opportunity
to compare and contrast,
and to make inferences
about the priorities
of the storytellers.
And each of the characters
are telling the stories
through their own visual
vernacular, their own kind
of visual imaginations that are
present in the storytelling.
And so, it gives you an
opportunity to take a look
at what is going on
inside of the characters
and what makes them
who they are,
why they imagine the world
the ways that they do.
>> Anne Holmes: Thank you.
That's so moving.
I'm interested to
hear more because this
and graphic novel is
so autobiographical.
What it has its release meant
to your communities,
to your family?
>> Trung Le Nguyen: You know,
that's actually something
that I find really
difficult to gauge.
Especially now while we're
all sort of in lockdown
because the pandemic
is still ongoing.
And so, I don't know quite how
to gauge what a community
response looks like.
It seems very warm so far,
but I'm also not someone
who read reviews of my work.
I like to let people have their
own individual relationships
to the work that might
be different than mine.
then I have gotten a lot
of really kind feedback
and people sending me emails
and sending me really nice notes
about what the story
meant to them.
And I think that is sort
of a nice positive
[inaudible] reception to me.
Every once in a while, I'll get
a real kind of heartfelt message
about the nature of
the story and the ways
in which it specifically
resonated with certain readers.
It was one of those-- I
kind of consider the story
to be an opportunity to
demand people's empathy.
A lot of times when you're
writing a story about immigrants
and you're writing about LGBTQ
experiences, when you're writing
about anything that sort of
exists within the margins,
there's this sort of special
expectation that you have
to defy the public
about your experiences.
And I really just kind
of wanted to tell a story
that centers the experiences
of people who kind of live
within those particular
identities.
And tell them that eye level.
Tell them in ways that would
insist that these characters,
these identities, and
these spaces are deserving
of a reader's empathy as opposed
to simply their curiosity.
>> Anne Holmes: Yeah.
Thank you.
Thank you for that.
That's really powerful.
Also, I see we do have some
audience questions here too.
So, from Ferdinand,
it says, 'Hi Trungles.
In addition to 'Magic Fish,
you've done some terrific
work illustrating other
people's creations.
What were your favorites?
>> Trung Le Nguyen: I think
my favorites are all kind
of within the fairy tale theme.
And so, my first two short
comics that I worked on were
for 'Twisted Romance'
and for 'Fresh Romance.'
And so, I got to work
with Marguerite Bennett
on 'Fresh Romance' and Alex de
Campi on 'Twisted Romance' for--
I think it was Rosy
Press and Image Comics.
And those two are still
very, very special to me
because started-- they were the
first works that I did that kind
of let me explore my
collaborative-ness.
And so, those are projects
that I'm still very
fond of to this day.
>> Anne Holmes: Thank you.
And Bruce asks, 'Do you always
draw to bring a story to life?
Or have you ever illustrated
something that you needed
to create a story for?'
>> Trung Le Nguyen: Yeah.
I do things both ways.
In the process of making 'The
Magic Fish,' what I learned
about myself is that as a long
form narrative storyteller,
I need to have a
script written first.
So, 'The Magic Fish'
actually did start
out as visual art projects.
They were all-- I was just
sort of drawing fairy tales
that were interesting to me and
had things to say that I found
to be very resonant personally.
And so, I had just all
these drawings floating
around of different
iterations of Cinderella.
I'd done a bunch of
mermaid drawings.
I had made a little Zena vim.
And so, those three
things that were kind
of in the water for me already.
And then I kind of brought
those into 'The Magic Fish.'
But when I sat down to actually
tell the cookies the story
and figure out the page
compositions and how
to elegantly convey all
of the narrative feeds
in the emotional
piece of the story,
I needed to organize
things as a writer.
So, I wound up figuring out
that even though I'm someone
who had always kind
of considered himself
to be a visually oriented
person, I need the organization
of a text to work from
for the most part.
But I still like to do both.
I like to just idly draw
things and then sometimes
from there a story
will start to kind
of come forth and bubble out.
And once that starts to happen,
I have to organize
things a little bit,
and then I switch
over to writing.
But, in general, I think
I'm someone who needs
to write something first, which
is still a surprise to me.
>> Anne Holmes: Yeah.
That's so interesting.
So, what set you on the path to
becoming an artist and a writer?
>> Trung Le Nguyen: [laughs] So,
it's been a bit of an accident.
When I was in college, I
was studying studio art.
I studied oil painting,
which was the closest thing
to my interest because
I'm not someone
who is very good with color.
To this day, I'm still a
little bit of a dilettante
when it comes to color theory
and that sort of thing.
I don't know the textures
and the ends and outs
of paintings that well.
But the other thing that
I studied was art history.
And I loved the ephemera, I
loved looking at the history
of the printing press,
advertisements
from the turn of the century.
I liked looking at Golden Age
illustrators and the Gilded Age
and all the iconography that
came about at that time,
and what that said
about publishing
and about the book industry and
about illustration and the place
of the designer and
the illustrator
within those industries.
And from there, I
got interested in
Kind of geometry a little bit.
And so, I got in internship at
the Minnesota Historical Society
in the summer of 2011.
And I was so excited.
And I was preparing to
do a lot of research
for their history players.
I was assigned to research.
Harriot Bishop, the first
schoolteacher in Minnesota.
And I got to look at all kinds
of sewing samples
and news clippings.
And then there were a
bunch of disagreements
between the major parties
in Minnesota that summer.
And so, the government shutdown.
And because I was a nonessential
personnel, I lost my internship,
and it was a graduation
requirement.
And so, I was kind of scrambling
to figure out what to do next.
And so, I wound up interning
at the Minnesota Center
for Book Arts where I learned
a bit of an appreciation
for books, just like
as something
that is a physical object that's
a piece of art, it's something
that people can hold
and interact with.
And I really loved that.
And from there, I
started working on zines.
And I didn't know if
this had anything to do
with what I wanted
to do in my future.
I had no designs to work
in comics or in publishing
or to make stories at all.
But I always a liked to draw and
I liked visual communication.
And so, I just started
Idly drawing comics
and little stories, and
posting them on the Internet.
And I think I got the
attention of some editors
who then gave me some work.
And here I am literally
because the government shutdown
in 2011 in my state.
>> Anne Holmes: Yeah,
I love those sort
of accidental beginnings.
I feel like so many authors and
artists have stories like that,
which is just-- which
is so compelling.
We have a question here
from Sienna, who asks,
I think it's really cool
how you use different colors
through different narratives.
How did you make this decision
and choose the colors?'
>> Trung Le Nguyen: Sure.
So, this was something
that's a bit
of an editorial consideration.
This is something that I
will credit to my editors.
Because when I pitched the
story originally, I'm someone,
like I said earlier, I
studied oil painting,
but I'm still not
very experienced
in using a lot of color.
I'm not very confident.
And my color theory and the
attention that I can bring
to that aspect of storytelling.
And so, I pitched
'The Magic Fish'
as a black and white comic.
And my editors really
wanted to take advantage
of the full color printing
that was available.
And so, we came up
with a compromise.
They said, 'Hey, why don't
you use a limited palette
where you can leave out
hues with one set of colors.
And that can be a really
elegant way to kind
of give me some baby steps
into coloring your comics.
And one of them also suggested
that it might be a
really great way to convey
which story universes each
of the tales are told from.
And so, it just became a
really elegant way to convey
to the reader what parts
of the story they're accessing
while they're reading it.
Is it a fairy tale?
Does it take place
in contemporary times
within the context of the story?
Or does it take place
within a character's past,
and are we get context for the
character in the present later?
And so, I ended up choosing
three different color palettes.
I chose sort of the kind of
yellow okra colors for the past
because attend to associate
them with sepia tones,
which gives it a
nice vintage feel.
And I think people conflate
that with old things and things
from the past as well.
And so, I thought
that was a nice way
to get people to think about it.
It's also kind of
a morning color.
It's sort of a sunshiny color.
The reds are sort of
very present minded.
This is sort of a
midday color for me.
And so, that became what
the contemporary segments
of the comic book became.
And then the blues are sort
of looking this serious,
bedtime story, midnight color.
It's the color of what
I think of when I think
of telling bedtime stories.
And I always loved the 10
fairy tale illustrations
of Maxfield Parrish.
And he used this incredible
blue color I think that's still
referred to as Parrish blue
and that has always been kind
of associated with
fairy tales in my mind.
And that's the decision-making
process that went
into the specific colors that
was originally an invention
of a compromise that
came from the editors
who did a really
brilliant job with working
with my particular limitations.
When I said, 'Hey,
like, these are things
that I'm not great at.'
>> Anne Holmes: Yeah.
That's fascinating.
But I love how you talk about
that sort of mix of senses,
of what things sort of,
you no, make you feel.
Because that seems important
to also convey to you readers
and maybe, you know, young
adult readers especially.
So, we have a question
from Billy, who says,
'I'm really excited to
read 'The Magic Fish.'
Do you plan on doing more
in the fairy tale genre
or doing new interpretations
of other classic stories?
>> Trung Le Nguyen: Yes.
I am working on my
second graphic novel now.
It's less set within a fairy
tale universe, but it's based
on a fairy tale that's
[inaudible].
And since my editor hasn't
seen the whole story yet,
I'm not going to flush out
and too much about what it is.
But it's kind of in
the vein of 'Beauty
and the Beast' fairy tale.
And it's set in modern times.
And I'm really excited
to tackle it.
I've mostly shifted gears in
that direction for this project
because 'The Magic Fish' ended
up being more emotional heavy
then I ever realized it was
going to be while
I was making it.
And so, I finished up,
okay, said to myself,
'I need to take a little bit
of a break, and I'm going
to tell a light and
fluffy story next.'
And so, that's what I'm doing.
But I'm excited to tell
a lot more fairy stories
within this kind of
storytelling format.
I don't often see a lot of
fairy tales that are told
within the comic book format.
And a lot of the stories that
are told end up being pastitsios
or remixes that don't
always resonate with me.
So, I'm definitely going to
tell more fairy tale stories
within graphic novels
and comics.
>> Anne Holmes: That's
really exciting.
Well, I'll definitely look
forward to your next work.
So, Trung, what advice do you
have for budding young writers
or painters or gothic novelists?
>> Trung Le Nguyen: Okay, whew.
This is very broad.
And I don't know that I
have an easy response,
but I'll do my best.
So, 'The Magic Fish' is the
very first work of fiction
that I have ever written.
The only things I have ever
written before 'The Magic Fish'
were essays for school.
So, book reports and, like,
I don't know, long essays.
So, 'The Magic Fish'
actually kind
of is structured a
little bit like an essay.
And so, what I learned that
when you're creating a project
that you want to feel
really confident in,
it's sometimes really helpful
to look at your strengths.
Because it was my very first
long form narrative project
at all, I had to let go of
the sense of preciousness.
You can't feel compelled to
get it right the first time.
Because that's going to
stop you from growing.
And you can't grow unless
you make a lot of mistakes
and try a lot of
things that don't work.
And sometimes things that don't
work in the present can be saved
for later, and they'll work
within a different context.
So, I think the most
important thing
when you're a creator who's
excited about doing things is
to not really worry
about messing up
and doing things incorrectly.
Because you are who
you are in the moment
that you make your work.
And later on, you're going to
be someone who's been enriched
by a foundation that
you laid for yourself.
You're going to evolve
and you're going to grow.
But you can't evolve and
grow unless you, you know,
set that foundation, unless you
make a lot of fun and, you know,
potentially embarrassing
mistakes in the beginning.
Because those growing
pains are something
that will lend your
work a lot more texture
and a lot more intention
in the future.
So, don't be afraid to mess
up is the short answer.
And then, I think the
other important thing is
that I'm figuring out that
everybody's relationship
to work is going
to be different.
As a writer, my relationship
to the work in front of me,
is going to be different than
a reader's relationship to it
and a critic's relationship
to it.
And so, for the most
part, if someone--
you know, if it doesn't
resonate with the reader,
then that reader has a
wonderful, just a wealth
of other stories that they
can pursue and consume.
Your work doesn't have
to be for everybody.
It doesn't mean that
you're doing it wrong.
It just means that you haven't
found exactly the right audience
for it yet.
But as long as you make
something from your heart,
people will find it
who will discover
that the story resonates.
And those will be your people.
So, you don't have to be
for everyone I guess is the
other piece of advice that I got
that was-- I wanted
to be very useful.
>> Anne Holmes: Yeah.
That's really lovely and
kind and generous advice.
I'm sure our budding artists
really appreciate that.
So, Laura asks, 'How have
libraries influenced you
in your career?'
>> Trung Le Nguyen: Yes.
Libraries are the most
autobiographical portion
of the story.
All of the details of 'The Magic
Fish' kind of come from pieces
of my life where I sort of spun
them into a different direction
or sort of asked myself a
kind of a 'what if' scenario.
But libraries are the part
of the story that comes
at its core completely unchanged
within the narrative for me.
Because I am like
the protagonist
in that I spent a ton of time
in libraries when I was a kid.
My parents also learned the
English language alongside
their kids.
And so, going to the library and
picking out stories and getting
to know each other and getting
to know each other's priorities
and aesthetic preferences,
and the ways that, you know,
the language rolls off
of each other's tongues,
how we like to say things,
phrases that stick in our minds.
Going to the library was such
a huge portion of that stage
of development in my
life, and I find it--
like, I'm very sentimental
about the library because if it
because I spent a
lot of time there.
And it was such a wonderful,
positive growing
experience for me.
It provided an environment
where I felt safe to be curious
about absolutely
anything that I wanted.
And I grew as an artist
and as a person from it.
And it helped facilitate
my relationships
with my family members
that way as well.
So, the library has always
been important to me.
And I think [laughs]--
I'm trying really hard not to
make the library a huge thing
in every single thing
that I make.
But I'm still noticing that
in everything that I do,
I always want to shout out
libraries a little bit.
>> Anne Holmes: Well, of course,
you know we appreciate that.
And we're all big library
lovers and nerds as well.
Let's see.
So, Sienna asks-- she
says, 'I just have to ask:
what is the story
behind Trungles?
Do you consider Trungles
a nickname or alter ego?'
>> Trung Le Nguyen: You
know, my relationship
to that handle has
changed over the years.
Trungles actually came from when
I was in high school, I think.
I was really shy, and I
got a really terrible grade
on a speech assignment that
I had when I was a freshman.
So, I joined the speech team
in order to get over that fear
and just sort of throw myself
into the deep end of the pool.
And I started to do really
well, and my confidence grew.
And then one day
I won something,
and the announcer
announced my name.
And because my name is Trung Le
Nguyen-- Le is my middle name.
It's just the two letters.
They squished my first name
and my middle name
together into Trungle.
And I remember being
slightly embarrassed,
but also not hating
the sound of it.
And so, I sort of reappropriated
that name and made it mine.
And so, it's never
been like a nickname.
It's not something that
people know me call me.
But I know that people
on the Internet refer
to me as Trungles.
And I sort of like that.
It's sort of a signifier like,
'Oh, you know me professionally
from spaces that, you
know, I don't tend
to interact with in person.
And that's a really nice way
for me to interface with people
and give me context
for who people are.
So, I feel very warmly about it.
I do answer to it if
people call me Trungles.
It's not something
I ask people to do,
but I certainly don't mind it.
Yeah, it's-- I still think
it's a cute handle [laughs].
>> Anne Holmes: So, you're
saying it's a term of endearment
from your prior fanbase?
That's great.
So, Meredith asks,
'You have written
about coming of age stories.
What fantasy world
influenced you growing up?'
>> Trung Le Nguyen: I sort
of grew up reading a lot
of stories before the why age.
I remember when coming
of age stories started
to really be a thing.
So, I read I guess what
would be considered a lot
of middle grade fantasy
works when I was younger.
So, the Prydain Chronicles
by Lloyd Alexander were kind
of a big influence on how
I thought about the world.
Because it was really great.
It was sort of a quiet adventure
where it was still harrowing,
and it was still very exciting.
But I think the lessons
that Lloyd Alexander imparts
in his Prydain Chronicles books
are more along the lines of how
to extend enough empathy
to be a good leader,
which is not something
you get in a lot of,
like, adventure fantasies.
And I loved that so
much about those books.
I did read all of the Chronicles
of Narnia growing up as well.
I went to Parochial school
for almost my entire life.
And so, the Chronicles of Narnia
and Christian Apologia
are things
that I'm pretty familiar with.
And so, I like to interface
with those narratives still.
And I have a special place in my
heart for the Garth Nix's books
because I loved 'Sabriel'
when I was growing up.
And I probably loved them I was
a little bit too young for them,
but I had no problem
observing them.
And I still to this day
consider them to be some
of the most formative
bits of storytelling.
It's essentially about
necromantic wishes.
And that's not something
that I--
that's not really my
vibe most of the time.
I don't do horror very much.
But it was such a compelling
adventure story, and I read it
when I was pretty young.
So, I love those
books to this day.
>> Anne Holmes: I love that.
So, we're coming to the end
of our time, unfortunately.
So, I just want to ask
one more question for you.
What would you say is, if
there's a main takeaway
from 'The Magic Fish,'
what would you--
what would you like your readers
to take away from your story?
>> Trung Le Nguyen: Sure.
This is always a little
tricky for me to answer
because I'm a big believer
in everyone having very
individual relationships
with the pieces of
work that they consume.
So, whatever a reader happens
to take out of it is going
to be a take that I
am going to accept.
Because it's not
really my business.
But the relationship
with that text is.
But I will say that the closest
thing to a sentiment or a lesson
that I want to impart with 'The
Magic Fish' is that oftentimes,
even when people are
trying their best,
they might not have
all of the tools
and they might not have all
of the right words in order
to convey the intention and
the care behind the things
that they're trying
to accomplish.
So, the lessons that people
are at where they're at.
And sometimes it's not going
to be exactly what it is
that you need in the moment,
but it is worth something that,
you know, people are doing
their best anyway in spite
of not having all
of those tools,
in spite of not having all
of the exactly correct words.
So, allowing people to try and
grow alongside you is something
that can be very difficult.
And it requires a lot of
compassion to get to a space
where you sort of understand
that on an ongoing basis.
So, that's kind of something
that I wanted to impart
with 'The Magic Fish.'
>> Anne Holmes: That's
beautiful.
And that's another great
way for us to end today.
So, Trung, thank you for
taking the time today
to talk to your readers.
We've had such a lovely time.
Thank you so much.
>> Trung Le Nguyen: Yeah.
Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you so much for all these
really wonderful questions.
They were so thoughtful, and
I deeply appreciate everyone
who was able to make it out
and ask me some questions.
>> Anne Holmes: Yeah.
Yes, thanks again to
our wonderful audience
who brought all of
your great questions.
So, you've been listening
to Trung Le Nguyen talk
about the book, 'The
Magic Fish.'
Thank you again, Trung, for
being a part of the 2021 Library
of Congress National
Book Festival.
It's been a pleasure.
And once again, to our
audience, please continue
to enjoy the book festival
at loc.gov/bookfest.
Thank you.
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