>> From the Library of Congress in Washington, DC. >> Judy Kent: Hi. I'm Judy Kent. I'm glad to be with you today. Today our focus is to give you a small sample of the stories of service that these veterans have recorded for the Veterans History Project. You'll hear some of the questions that we typically ask veterans in the somewhat more private recording sessions back home. Like those private sessions, these will be guided conversations rather than formal speeches. We know that many of you have your own stories to tell, and we hope that when you get home, you'll take advantage of the opportunity and record them for the Library of Congress. Okay, I'll give the mic back to Fredrick so he can introduce our honored guests. >> Fredrick Wallace: Thank you, Judy. My name is Fredrick Wallace. I am a volunteer with AARP, and I am the coordinator of the Veterans History Project for AARP Georgia. And that is how I got involved in this project, which has been a delightful experience. As Judy mentioned, we are honored to have with us this afternoon three veterans who all have seen combat during World War II. And I will introduce them to you and then we will begin our conversation afterwards. Robert Bloxsom served with the US Merchant Marines during the war. His experience. [ Applause ] His experience with the Merchant Marines began after he graduated from the Pennsylvania school ship in 1941. During the war, his assignments took him to South Africa, England, and the Persian Gulf. At the time when ships faced frequent air and submarine attacks. At the age of 24, Mr. Bloxsom became captain of the Liberty Ship Lillian Nordica, sailing his ship to Antwerp, Belgium, two weeks after it has been liberated from the Germans. He left the Merchant Marines in 1948 and two years later joined the US Coast Guard. He remained with the Coast Guard until his retirement. Mr. Bloxsom, will you raise your hand please? In 1943, at the age of 18, Joseph De Luca was assigned to the 411th Regiment of the 103rd Infantry Division. In 1944, he was shipped overseas. During his two-year European assignment, he saw combat in Belgium, Germany, Austria, and Italy. After the defeat of Germany, he served with the Army occupation as an MP in the Seventh Army in Heidelberg, Germany. He also served as part of the Honor Guard when General George Patton died. Mr. De Luca. [ Applause ] Excuse me a moment while I get my other set of eyes. Mr. Higgins, Mr. Marty Higgins. Just Marty. >> Mr. Higgins was my father. >> Fredrick Wallace: Marty joined the 101st Calvary Regiment, Squadron C, in Brooklyn, New York and was sent to Fort Devens, Massachusetts. He received his Calvary Commission at Fort Riley, Kansas in 1941, and was assigned to the 10th Calvary Regiment in California. In 1944, he was sent to Africa. Transferred to the 36th Texas Infantry Division. Participated in the invasion of Southern France and took command of a company. He was captured at the end of that year, sent to Lukenwall [phonetic], Germany, and was liberated by the Russians in 1945. He returned to the United States following his release from service in 1945. Marty. [ Applause ] Now that we have completed the introductions, we will get started with our conversation. Judy. >> Judy Kent: We'll begin at the beginning. How did you come to serve with your particular branch of the military? Let's start with Mr. De Luca. >> Joseph De Luca: Well, you don't volunteer for the infantry, but just they were hurting for infantrymen and when I enlisted, that's where I ended up. It's about the worst spot in the Army. >> Well, when they shipped me overseas, we landed at Marseille, France, to let the pressure off the people on D-Day. Wanted to spread the German forces out. We fought through the Vosges Mountains in France. And that was the first modern -- in military history, we were the first Army that ever penetrated the Vosges Mountains. Then we kept on going through the mashnel [phonetic], zegfield [phonetic], the Rhine River, and ended up in Innsbruck, Austria. And the war was over and we were still alive. >> Okay. [ Applause ] >> Judith Kent: That was the shortened version. Mr. Higgins, how did you choose your particular branch of the military? >> Marty Higgins: Actually, I joined the National Guard in 1939 to ride horses. Well, I went with the 101st Calvary. I was assigned to the 10th Calvary after I came back from Officers Candidate School. I was told that this war -- I've been on three panels. My voice is kind of caput. But I know two war stories you might enjoy. Are any of you out there Catholics? Raise your hand. A few. Well, in the 10th Cavalry, we had a Captain Bulkey [phonetic] with a walrus mustache. And I think he used to practice frowning so he'd scare us. But having been in the National Guard for so long, I felt like it was an equalization. One day we fail out and it was the holy day of obligation. And I said to the captain, sir, it's the holy day of obligation, and any Catholics should be allowed to go. Now, remember, this is a horse calvary outfit. He started to say -- I asked him how many men, about eight men raised their hands. He started to say, when did you go to mass last? I said, no, they're entitled to go. He grumbled and said, go ahead and take them. And I topped it off. I said, now we need four [inaudible] and horse holds. >> They don't get it. >> Thank you. >> Judith Kent: Okay, Mr. Bloxsom. [ Applause ] We don't know as much as we should about the Merchant Marines, but you must've known something about it to lead you there. >> Richard Bloxsom: Well, I guess the sea was in my blood. When I was a little tike, I had a fleet of little wooden boats that I'd take in the bath tub instead of a rubber duckie. And as I grew older, my father and I built a little sailboat. I went in the Boy Scouts and then into the Sea Scouts. It was while in the Sea Scouts I heard of the Pennsylvania school ship. So I applied and spent two years on the Pennsylvania school ship. I had broken my leg so I was in the hospital for six weeks with a broken leg, so my class graduated in October of '41, and I was told I wouldn't graduate till next May. Well, when Pearl Harbor occurred, I went up to the executive officer and said, I'm just repeating what I had before and they need officers in the Merchant Marines. So he says, go up and take your examination for third mate, and I did that, and the day after Christmas, I headed up to New York and was posted to the SS Keystone, which was a World War I cargo ship. That started my career in the Merchant Service. [ Applause ] >> Fredrick Wallace: Mr. Bloxsom, can you describe your feelings when you learned that you would be sailing your ship into a combat area? >> Richard Bloxsom: Well, when I was that age, I guess it didn't bother me. It was the older people that it really bothered. I was just happy to be on the ship. On the school ship I had slept in a hammock. I served mate on the Keystone, I had my own room. I had a man to make up my room and keep it clean. I ate at a table with tablecloths. And yeah, I don't think it bothered me that much on my first trip. It was the older people that I really admired that went to see -- because they were too old to get in the military, and they would volunteer. They had a license, so they would come and go to sea. The second trip I made, we had an older chief mate on there. And the first night out of New York, I came off watch at midnight and I laid down to go to sleep and I heard the alarm bells ringing in the engineers' quarters. So I strapped on my 45, put on my life jacket and went to the bridge. And they said that two ships on the convoy had been torpedoed. And they were all hands supposed to go their abandon ship station. So I went up to my lifeboat, checked off the crew, and then I saw the mate wasn't up there checking off his boat. So I went down to his room. And we were supposed to sleep with our clothes on. So I knocked and I said, hey, mate, the alarm bells went off. And he grunted. I said, hey, mate, the alarm bells went off. And he grunted again. I said, hey, mate, there's two ships sunk in the convoy. He came out of his bunk just as fast as he could, forgot he had his clothes on. His pants dropped down and he went face first on the deck. And I felt sorry for -- those older men that, you know, had some sense and awareness. And us young kids, nothing bothered us. So that was my thoughts on some of the Merchant Marine. >> Fredrick Wallace: In other words, you finally got the message of what combat was like. >> Richard Bloxsom: That's right. >> Fredrick Wallace: Mr. Da Luca, I'm going to ask you the same question. Can you describe your feelings when you first learned that you were going to be assigned to a combat area? >> Joseph De Luca: Fear, fear. Well, combat is -- infantryman is just brutal business. It's pretty hard to talk about it because it's so unreal to myself and you wonder how anybody can believe what you try to tell them. But I usually like to tell some funny things. And one incident where we got pinned down and we had to wait for some tanks to come up and knock the machine gun down. And they told us to dig in. And I was in a small gully, and I wanted to go deeper. So I start digging with my hands and I pushed the dirt out and my elbow went up above the gully and a shot rang out and bullet hit in front of my face and threw dirt. I wanted to go deeper. So I started again, and my elbow went up again and a shot rang out. And I figured the sniper's got me zeroed in. He had to be pretty bad to miss me twice. So here I am pinned down by a machine -- by a sniper and I had a small box of crackers in my jacket. So I'm laying there, waiting for the tank and I'm eating crackers. >> Fredrick Wallace: Marty, did you hear the question that I asked the other two? Did you hear the question that I asked the other two? Can you describe your feelings when you learned that you were being assigned to a combat area? >> Marty Higgins: Pardon my voice. As a matter of fact, I was with the 10th Cavalry, which I mentioned earlier -- there were colored enlisted men and white officers. I thought, we're going into combat together. When we arrived in Oran, Africa, they told us that the colored men would become support troops. We had an opportunity miss the war or get into combat. I'd say 99% of the junior officers opted -- we wanted to get into combat. We were assigned to -- we went to an infantry school for training for about a period of a month and a half. And then I was assigned to the 36 Division. There was no apprehension on our part. We wanted to get into combat. But I joined this panel primarily because they were interested in war stories. The other panels were pretty serious. So I'm going to be relatively light. Oh, first I'll say this. I always thought when I hit the beach I'd get rid of my helmet. It was so cumbersome. I also thought if I lost an arm and a leg I wouldn't want to come back. Well, I actually hit the beach and they started shelling us, I could get my whole body into that helmet. After two weeks of fighting, I thought, if I only lose an arm and a leg, I have it made. But at one point we were chased -- yes? >> Fredrick Wallace: Let me stop you for a minute. Excuse me a minute. Marty, excuse me. But I understand that we have Congressman Steny Hoyer who is with us, and he would like to say a few words to you. Congressman Hoyer is from the state of Maryland, and he is a member of the Five-Star Counsel. Congressman Hoyer. [ Applause ] >> Congressman Hoyer: First of all, let me apologize. It got caught in some traffic back there. A lot of people, a wonderful event. And I don't want to interrupt these folks. So I'm going to take two seconds to say to all of you that if you haven't read, but there's a beautiful magazine, Life Magazine's put it out. I was at the prayer breakfast the American Legion had this morning. And I read it. And the first two or three pages are written by Bob Greene, the son of a veteran of World War II. And gentlemen and ladies, he says in it, he virtually never spoke about the painting. This was a painting of his father that hung on the wall in their house. It was of his father as a captain in uniform. He said he virtually never spoke about the printing. It was on the wall of our house all during my childhood. And in fact, when my mother moved to another house, they took it with them. Most remarkable of all, they seldom spoke about it (meaning his experience in World War II). Those who did make it home, those who survive the fighting, went about their lives and started families and reported to work in a different America. An America of the post victory years in which the former soldiers were expected to wear different uniforms, obey different rules. They became the men in the gray flannel suits, the factory coveralls, or the service station caps and slacks. And it was almost as if they thought they were supposed to forget about the war except for inside their own hearts. It was almost as if no one told them this, they must've decided it on their own. They felt they were obliged to keep it to themselves. My stepfather fought in the Pacific. He flew a B-25 and he was shot down in the Battle of the Coral Sea and lost two of his crew. He rarely talked about it. This history project is about making sure that those who remain help us remember so that we do not repeat. Also to give us courage and encouragement from their lives, from their heroism. And so ladies and gentlemen, I apologize for interrupting, but I wanted to be brief, because the whole point is to hear from you. God bless you. Thank you very much. Thank you all. [ Applause ] >> Fredrick Wallace: Thank you, Congressman. Would you like to continue? I apologize to Marty, but now we will give him a chance to continue. >> Marty Higgins: I was interrupted at a good time. At one point we lost track of the Germans. We didn't know where they were. And they gave me five Jeeps and told me to go out to certain towns. We couldn't rely on our radios. At each town I was supposed to send a Jeep back to say everything is okay. I remember, five towns. The first town we hit, they put out the American flags. They put out champagne. And so people joined us with rifles. I sent the Jeep back, everything's okay. Second town was same thing. Third time, the same thing. And my orders were, if you find any Germans, get an estimate of their number and get the hell out. Well, each town I hit -- well, by the time I hit the fifth town I had an army. And all these flags were flying up. The Germans could possibly come through there. And I thank God they didn't because if all of a sudden I said, goodbye, boys -- I could speak a little French then, I can't speak any now. But I felt I was very, very lucky that the Germans didn't occupy any areas. That's my story. [ Applause ] >> Fredrick Wallace: Thank you, Marty. >> Judith Kent: Okay, the next question. All of you have been through some really tough dangerous, scary situations, whether from the weather or the enemy or both. What helped you get through that? >> Well, when you go to sea, you're liable to run into a little weather now and then. I was chief mate on the Augustus Merriman that was built in Wilmington, North Carolina. We went to Charleston and loaded 9000 tons of aerial bombs. They were very careful. We had the Coast Guard, the fire department, the Army, the Navy, and I don't know who else there to make sure they were loaded correctly. We then proceeded to Norfolk where we loaded 1000 tons of PX: cargo, beer, and all the goodies that the military needed to operate. And we went to the med. We went into Iran and they offloaded the 1000 tons of PX cargo and they said, okay, you can take 1000 tons of bombs aboard. So I'm on deck and I'm looking up where the bombs are coming from and this big Army truck comes down and he's got a load of bombs aboard. He does a 180, backs up full speed, hits the brakes, and all the bombs come off the back of the truck. I tell you, my hair grayed a little bit that day. Then we went up to Brindisi, Italy, and offloaded our cargo, came back to Lagalett, which is the seaport for tunas, and loaded 1500 tons of aluminum scrap and started out in a large convoy for New York. We got south of the Azores and we got in the middle of a real hurricane. And those convoys were about six knots. And they slowed us down to about five knots. And the wind was blowing and the seas were 20, 30 feet high. And finally, I was on watch and we couldn't hold her. She fell off the port, did a 180, and then I goosed her up to full speed and got her back headed into the waves again. But we were out of the convoy at that time. They brought the DE back with us. And I swear that DE stayed with us the two days of the hurricane. We were eating soup and sandwiches, but those poor guys on that DE -- had come out of the water and you could see all the way from the bow to under the powerhouse. And then you get down the way and you could see all the way from the aft to the powerhouse. And I just felt so sorry for those seamen on that DE that stayed with us the whole way until the storm was over and we were able to rejoin the convoy. >> Judith Kent: And why are you still with us? Why are you still with us? >> Sometimes I wonder. >> Judith Kent: Okay. We'll wonder too. Mr. De Luca, you were in some scary situations. What helped you survive? What help you get through it? >> Joseph De Luca: I could run fast. You have to remember, this was 24 hours a day, seven days a week, you eat when you can and you clean up when you can. I went 28 days, I never had a change of clothes or bath. And that's for 50 bucks a month. And there's one real close one that's always in my mind. It was in the Vosges Mountains. And the terrain is so bad there that the tanks and artillery couldn't accompany the infantry. And we called it when the odds were even, infantrymen against infantrymen. And our squad was leading the column and you couldn't spread out very much. So we come to a sharp bend on the road and the sergeant held up -- wasn't quite sure, it looked like a good ambush place. But we had orders to keep moving. So the two scouts went around the curve and then our BAR man and then the sergeant. And I took one step and a machine gun opened up and got them all. And I fell back against the wall and the bank and I was just shaking and crying really. Because you're a soldier don't mean you're not scared and can't cry. Then they put us back in the column and another squad took over. Then as I passed them, I just broke down. These are guys you went out, you trained with, and went out and got drunk. I wasn't of age. And then all at once they're gone. And about another two steps would've been me. It's just a brutal, brutal business. And one way I kind of got my mind that that German soldier was a thing. It wasn't human. And that thing is trying to kill me, so I got to do it first. Like try to hold my sanity. But I was scared. [ Applause ] >> I don't think I mentioned, when I made that landing, I had been assigned to the 36th Division. We made the Southern France landing with about 600 men in the battalion. I'll tell you later we were cut off for seven days in the Vosges Mountains that Joe referred to. But our company commander captain, Nick Neal, was killed about two weeks after we landed. Lieutenant [inaudible] took over. He was killed about another two weeks. And then Lieutenant Lavalley [phonetic] took over. He had been our weapons platoon leader. And I was a second lieutenant at the time. We were running with aria [phonetic], and as Colonel Steel was giving Lavalley orders to attack, and he stalled all day. And finally Colonel Steel came up and asked me if I would take the company, and I said, yes. I'm not going to go through the rest of the bit about the company and the fighting, except I'll stick it to we were cut off in the Vosges Mountains from October 24 to October 30. The Vosges Mountains that Joe was referring to. The Japanese-Americans rescued us with a tremendous loss of life. There were about -- well, at least 400 casualties. 54 killed to save 211 men. But to answer your question, when we hit the beach, there were 18 line officers in the battalion. When we were cut off, I was the only one left. And I attributed that to my wife the [inaudible] cross and the rosary every day, and she continued it the rest of her life. >> Judith Kent: Your religious faith. [ Applause ] >> Fredrick Wallace: Thank you. I want to lighten this up a little bit. I know that when you were in combat under fire, that things are really rough, and the only thing you could think about was survival. But there were times I'm sure that you were not in combat, that you were not under fire. So can you tell me what life was like at those times when you were not actually under fire? How did you relax? What kind of entertainment -- how did you entertain yourself? Let's begin with you, Mr. Bloxsom. >> Richard Bloxsom: Well, we didn't have TV of course at that time. So there was a lot of card playing. We had a lot of time to ourselves at sea. I think I read many books, some on the sea even. And we used to fish for sharks now and again if we were on the convoys that was only making six knots, you could put a piece of meat on a meat hook and haul it over the stern and every once in a while you'd catch a shark. Ashore, of course, I'm afraid to say we headed for the nearest bar and celebrated that we had made it that far. [ Applause ] >> Fredrick Wallace: Joe? >> Joseph De Luca: Well, we very seldom got to the rear. We were short of infantrymen and we just had to keep going. But the few times you would, first thing you wanted to do was bathe and eat a hot meal. And any spare time I did, I slept. I was totally exhausted, dirty, wet. Just tough. >> Fredrick Wallace: Marty? >> Marty Higgins: We were in the lines 119 days before I got captured. So I'm going to jump back and say, when I graduated from OCS, I was sent to the 10th Calvary. Riding horses every day and getting paid it. Weekends we'd play polo and jump. I couldn't get enough of it. I was stationed on the California border. We were 60 miles south of San Diego, 60 miles west of El Centro. It was such a fabulous post. I wanted to marry Marg. And an officer's wife can make or break them. And when we got back to cab [phonetic] -- I'll be relatively brief -- she went to the library to get a book. A woman approached her and said, can you play bridge? Marg said yes. The woman said, will you join us? So she sat down at the bridge table. The first woman said, my name is Helen Brown. My husband is a division commander. The second one said, my name is Blair Fork [phonetic], my husband's a regimental commander. The third one said, my name is Bettina Ward, my husband is a general's aide. Marg said, my name is Marg Higgins, my husband is a platoon leader. I don't know if you get the significance of that. It's the lowest place you could be. [ Applause ] >> Fredrick Wallace: Thank you. >> You've all heard the story that a seaman has a girl on every port. Well, if you look down front here, this beautiful lady in the wheelchair, whatever port I came in in the United States, she traveled to, whether it was Boston, Philadelphia [applause], Charleston. So actually I had a girl in every port. >> Judith Kent: But it was the same girl. Okay. It's hard for some veterans to share their story for lots of good reasons that we understand. But you have chosen to share yours, and we think that's wonderful. Why did you choose to share your story? >> Well, I wrote a book for the family of all my seagoing experiences, and it was in the Parade magazine about a year ago. They asked for veteran stories. So I sent an email into the Library of Congress and they said, sure. So I sent them my book and I sent it on a CD. And then about three months ago, I had a call from the Library of Congress, said, we have lots of stories in the Army, Navy, and Marines, but we haven't got any from the Merchant Marines. Would you act as a representative of the Merchant Marines? And I said sure. So that's why I'm here. [ Applause ] >> Judith Kent: Mr. De Luca, why did you share your story? >> Joseph De Luca: Well, I still belong to the 103rd Division Association and they encourage us to go out and talk. In the last six years, I've been talking to history classes and I'm still nervous. But I think a lot of us veterans would say they aren't teaching the kids about World War II. In the classes I go to, they really go to a lot of trouble. Then if none of the veterans would show up, what would the kids think? [ Applause ] >> What I didn't go into and I did at these other panels, was the Japanese-Americans that rescued us had tremendous casualties. Now, we didn't know this. I was a keynote speaker at the Punch Bowl in the year March of 2000. But I'm getting ahead of myself. In 1997, Franz Steidl wrote a book called "The Lost Battalion." It turned out there was one of us and one of the Germans. My son had asked me to send him his memoirs and I -- my memoirs -- and I did. I sent them out to Franz. Well, most of it was about horse cavalry, which he couldn't use, but he picked up the part about the infantry, and he put a chapter in the book about Marty Higgins and Jimmy Katawog [phonetic]. That was the first time we realized the losses they suffered. I have attended everything the Japanese-Americans -- that's the reason I'm here now. We had a panel the other day -- two panels -- and we had a dinner at the Harvest Moon last night and I was the keynote speaker and it was heartwarming. And they gave me a beautiful watch. That's how I got started. [ Applause ] >> Fredrick Wallace: Well, we've had some wonderful comments here this afternoon and I have one last question I would like to ask to either one of you. Is there anything else that you would like to add to this? >> I'd like to do a little advertising for the John Brown, which is one of the two remaining operable Liberty ships. If you care to see what life at sea was like during the war or a Liberty ship, go to Baltimore, go board the John Brown and see the conditions that we lived under. [ Applause ] >> Fredrick Wallace: Joseph, Marty, is there anything you would like to add? Anything more you would like to add? >> You must meet my son, Michael. He's here. He has written books about the Merchant Marine. And about six months ago, Ollie North has "War Stories" on the History Channel and Mike was featured. I made a videotape of it. He'd love to talk to you. As far as I am concerned, I might disagree with other veterans. I think each generation does what it has to do. [ Applause ] >> Fredrick Wallace: Well, thank you very much, gentlemen. And now we will open it up for questions from the audience. Anyone with a question? Yes sir, you over there. >> What kind of reaction when it was announced the war had ended -- how they felt? >> Fredrick Wallace: Can you pass the question on? What was the question? >> How did they feel when they heard the war had ended? >> The reaction when they heard the war was ending? >> Fredrick Wallace: Okay, I think we've got the question. What was your reaction when you learned that the war was over? >> Well, I was in the English Channel westbound in a convoy when the announced the end of the war in Europe. We were told we would meet an eastbound convoy and that procedure was we would just go down each other's columns. This worked good -- it was about 4:00 in the morning and the LST Convoy from France came in at 90 degrees angle and we had 17 different collisions between ships. So that wasn't a very good greeting for VE day. And VJ day, I was in route from Pensacola to North Africa. And we were told that we would discharge our cargo in North Africa and then load up cargo for the Pacific war area. And when we were announced, I tell you, we were real happy that the whole thing was over. [ Applause ] >> Well, we were in Innsbruck, Austria, and when they told it was all over, we were pretty happy. I went seven straight months on the front line. I never was wounded and I had all my limbs. And we got really drunk. And I thought I was going to die from that. [ Applause ] >> The best way I could react at the question is I was on the first boat load of POWs headed to New York harbor. The tugboats came out tooting. The fire boats came out with their hoses going. And they had marshall music playing on the yachts. Now, I had lived in Jersey City and I passed the Statue of Liberty every time I went to New York. Then it was only a statue. When I came back and saw it, I knew it was Liberty. [ Applause ] >> Fredrick Wallace: We have time for one more question. Yes, ma'am? >> Thank you. I wondered if Marty could share some of his experiences as a POW? >> Marty Higgins: I don't how much time we have, but the interesting thing to me and I'll tell you this much. I got my commission in Jersey City in November of '42. And Frank Maxwell got his -- I was in the cavalry. He got his in the infantry. We were both -- he went back to Fort Benning for orders. I went back to Fort Riley school to get mine. I was assigned to the 10th Cavalry and was riding horses till March of '44. When I got to the POW camp -- we were captured December 10. I met Heinrich Himmler, but we don't have time to go through that. But when I got to the outlet 64, there was Frank Maxwell. He'd been a POW for two years and he was sent home two weeks, was repatriated with ulcers. He gave me his extra longjohns -- and that's another story -- and his extra wool socks. But the most significant thing, he was able to go home and tell my wife I was alive. If you want to -- I could go on and on. The PO thing was not the happiest -- in fact it was the lowest point in my life, and I don't have the time to go into that. But just thinking of it. [ Applause ] >> Fredrick Wallace: Well, once again, I want to say thank you to the gentlemen here and to my co-moderator and to you, ladies and gentlemen, for sitting, listening to these wonderful stories. Thank you all very much. [ Applause ] >> This has been a presentation of the Library of Congress. Visit us at LOC.GOV.