WEBVTT

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>> From the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C.

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[ Silence ]   >> Good morning everyone.

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Good morning!   >> Good morning.

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>> Good to be here. 

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We're pleased that you've joined us for a very special kind

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of presentation that has come to you as I realized with various titles

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and that's because as you will learn,

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we are in a variable but interesting state.

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We-- I'm John Cole. 

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I'm the Director of the Center for the Book in the Library of Congress

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and be on half-- on behalf of both the Center

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and the European Division, our program co-sponsor,

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it is my pleasure to welcome back to the Library

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of Congress, Graziella Tonfoni. 

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She is a professor of linguistics at the University of Bologna

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and a scholar who is much more than a professor of linguistics.

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She is the author of more than a dozen books

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and internationally known for her research and publications

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in the fields of communications, 

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textural theory and cognitive science.

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Along the way, she has developed her own--

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she's become known for her research and she's developed her own theories

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and methodologies in these particular fields as well

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as in artificial intelligence and multimedia education.

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She is considered a founder of the field of computational literature

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and has been a visiting scholar at MIT and Harvard.

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It was recently, she's been a visiting professor at the University

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of Iran in Isfahan and also a lecturer

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at the University of Istanbul in Turkey.

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In 1996, 15 years ago, Graziella spoke here

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at the Library of Congress. 

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She told me earlier, it was her first talk here

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but not her first talk in the states and her topic here had a center

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for the book connection as this one does.

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It was new tools for reading and writing in the information age,

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a presentation and demonstration that was base on her then new book.

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Writing is a visual art, breaching the gap between the humanities

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and technology of pioneering effort in the topic

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that is now much more popular. 

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This morning, she's going to speak informally

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about how a digital publishing has grown and changed

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in the last 15 years and in the process affected are perceptions

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and uses of information both here and in Europe

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where of course she has wide experienced.

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Her talk is a first step towards the future center

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for the book publication on a topic of fundamental importance to our age

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and in fact, to the purpose of the Library of Congress which is one

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of the reasons I have special interest in it.

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It-- really the topic is when it gets down to it

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and you'll see it reflected really on the set,

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the subtitle of the presentation here.

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It is how we, as a nation, navigate and sort through our current state

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of information overload which I believe we all feel,

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but the purpose is in order 

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to make good informed decisions on behalf of society.

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And as a historian of the Library of Congress, I have noticed

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that in the last couple of years, as we rework our mission statement

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which we do periodically, we are swinging back

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down towards the congressional side of our dual mission.

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And one of my early books was for congress and the nation

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and the theory was that we serve both, thanks to Thomas Jefferson

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but in fact through history, we sort of veer towards the legislative role

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and then we expand the national role and now through the internet,

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we're really have been expanding the international role.

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But now, through a combination of circumstances

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which include the budget prices, but also includes the leadership

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of the Library of Congress responding to it,

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we're back to emphasizing-- 

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coming back to emphasizing the congressional role and the support

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that we provide for the congress through the entire institution.

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So the notion of good decision making on behalf of congress

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as the function of the Library of Congress, I think is back in the for

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and future historians were probably note this shift.

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Periodically, these shifts have lasted 10 decade or two,

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so we'll-we will see what happens. 

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And this is going to be 1 hour session combining presentation

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and questions and answer. 

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It is being videotaped for broadcast on the Library's website.

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So I ask you to turn off all things electronic and be aware

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that if you participate in the question and answer session,

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your image and questions may will become part of our web cast.

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After the first hour, our speaker will remain available

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for further information discussion here in the Pickford.

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This is my introduction end.   And now down to business.

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Graziella, we welcome your prospective.

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What's been happening in digital publishing in the 15 years

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since you last spoke at the Library of Congress?

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Let's give her a welcome.   Thank you Graziella.

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[ Applause ]   [ Silence ]

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>> Good morning! 

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Thank you all for being here and thank you so much

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to Director John Cole for having made this presentation possible

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and Dr. Carl Amburster [phonetic] also for making my stay

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in here possible and my sharing views with you.

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It is always so good for someone like myself

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who has been bouncing around, you know, bouncing between continents

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since back in 1981 to come back to Washington

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which I do consider a home as well, you know,

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since I started coming here 19-6, later on.

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And being able to see the right people, brilliant minds be here--

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still be here to make things possible and to make conversation

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and discussions on relevant matters 

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which are today of urgence, possible.

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So let me-- first of all, refer very shortly

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to that first presentation I made in 1996 which is 15 years ago.

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As to consider how different it was both the concerns which were there

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and the concerns which are here today.

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At those times, multimedia education and the growth

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of a digital field were in the booming age in that early stages,

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a lot of enthusiast and encouragement was of course

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in the air and scholars were in someway divided, you know,

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their attitudes were, you know, let's push the technology

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and see what happens on one side. 

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On the other side, and this side is the one I would,

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you know, prefer as being part of. 

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Yes, of course, let's consider what we can get out of this new ways

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of doing things, of communicating, of sharing information.

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But let us also be concerned about collateral effects or side effects

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of those technologies and tools. 

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And let us also be concerned and aware of the capacities which we had

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which may have to in someway change or be changed and let see

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if we can make all the good ways of doing things compatible

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with the new strategies and new challenges.

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I would say that the community, 

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this scholarly community was pretty divided on that.

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And as Dr. Cole mentioned, 

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I'm not going to give any scholarly lecture today

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but I'm more interested into conveying experiences and comment

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on that territory where methodologies

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and theories do hit the ground of practicalities in our society

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because this is where we stand it today and this is

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where a lot of problems come out. 

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So at those times, in 1996, there were concerns

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about creating more awareness about the cognitive capacities

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and the strain and the stress which of course, any user would--

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will have-- would have to confront when challenged and stimulated

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but also in some way pressured by the advent of new skills, new ways,

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new tools, new modes of operating. 

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The mission of Library of Congress, the wonderful mission

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of this institution being for instance in this case,

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the preservation of documents in their own context,

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post that the question of, how can we from now on in the presence

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of new tools and technologies make the most

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to reenforce the mission itself? 

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Let me go back to a second to this mission which is

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such an important one today. 

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Basically what we have here is wonderful collection--

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collections of documents. 

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Each of this document represents what is it supposed

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to be the most important thing in the United States and abroad,

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which comes as a consequence of a collaboration

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with other institution, which can select and filter

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and coordinate the process of not just accumulation of documents

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and data but coordination among threat--

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threats and trends of information, which are of relevance

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for those who're coming intend to make use of this pure

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and in some way constructive information to make decision.

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Institution such as Library of Congress is in--

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are in someway protected by their own mission.

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But outside there is the wilderness in their world because in some ways,

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the mission of sorting out information

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and filtering is not working the way it used

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to be working just back 15 years ago.

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So if we consider the concept of digital publishing, 15 years ago,

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digital publishing was subcategory of the major

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and main umbrella term, publishing. 

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We would have the publishing as a category and some kind

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of an experimental subarea called digital publishing.

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Since then and if we move 15 years up and we reach today,

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we have digital publishing as the umbrella term and just publishing

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or printing as almost as a subcategory.

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So things have been in some way, you know, reversed, you know.

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And it's like the glass which has been pulled upside-down and this is

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in some way the result of a lot of push into the technology.

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And it is also the result of a change of interpretation

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in the word, digital publishing. 

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Interpretation of the digitalization and the maintenance

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and the preservation of document was its starting point.

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At some point, the digital enterprise became some kind

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of a stimulating element for any kind of expression in--

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let me be more specific on that. 

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Authors were stimulated to try the digital publishing, the new,

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when they couldn't go through the regular publishing venue,

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the real printing. 

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And the whole ideology beyond and behind that was

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if you cannot make it through the "regular" kind of publishing,

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you will have the way nevertheless to express yourself

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through the digital publishing, considered to be in some way,

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cheaper, easier to access and with less constraints

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in terms of making it through. 

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This has created a very unbalanced situation

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because it has been working against the very originating concept

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of publishing and digital publishing as back in the 15 years ago

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which was the concept of diversification.

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You want to have digital publishing there but meanwhile,

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you will be continuing, investing time, energies.

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In the printing, you will understand the difference between solid

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and stable documents which are being printed and documents

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which maybe continuously changing or flowing or they are subject

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of discussion and object of-- 

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and also in some way leading to different versions

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and to different stages in the process.

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So there, let's say that the situation went a little bit

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out of control which in technology is a very easy thing.

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You know, people in technology see the relative confusion [laughs],

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the use of a tools as a way for technology to be lively and safe

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because in some way, there is a lot of movement

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and there are the things moved. 

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And the concerns for people who are busy producing new tools

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and evaluating the product are-- when things are stable and slow.

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But those times sometimes are very useful to check

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and see what we are getting at and where we stand.

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So this period, if we were to use, you know,

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a terminology which techno-- 

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the people in technology like has been more

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and more a period of author plus, plus.

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You know, all the emphasis has been on, you know,

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how could any individual become as active

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and protagonist to be an author. 

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Reader as a concept, fading a little bit away.

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I mean the whole principle was to advertise, you know,

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digital tools as the possibility for anyone to express the inner author

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which is inside of each of us but that

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because of very different circumstances maybe,

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we could not express adequately in some.

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Actual, you know, having done some research on that, you know,

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I could see that even the word reader was being

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in some way downgraded and say, you can be just a reader

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or don't be just a reader, you can be author instead.

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This is something which in a very subliming warming [laughs]

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in some way but has been growing progressively overtime

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up to the point that people, you know, readers become convinced

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that actually, they need to be author.

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And even their way of reading documents

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or let's call it information flows-- 

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because today we do have information flows and much less document--

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is extremely active, you know, so active to become almost,

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you know, restless now [laughs]. 

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That readers can in some way focus and be momentarily focusing

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on one word on a paragraph for a very limited amount of time.

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It has become like a jumpy side or everyone is restless

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because also the investment of time on a paragraph

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The past have this very clear view and past I quote, you know,

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I mean 15 years ago, we still had boundaries

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and there was a very clear cut distinction between what was stable,

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solid as opposed to flowing, fluent, moving.

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The way the technology has evolved has made those boundaries very weak.

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The message about-- the subliming message

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about how expressive tools mean more than conservation

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and preservation tool has been very powerful

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and has been absorbed very much in debt

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by largest communities of people. 

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So sometimes, when I talk about these things,

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I seemed to be saying things which are negative

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but this is not at all my point. 

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My point is that sometimes you have to raise issues

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which are a little bit less visible. 

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Linguists have a lot of invisible things to handle.

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And by invisible, I mean 

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for instance intentionality in messages, you know.

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What is the intention of the expression?

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If I talk like I'm doing now, 

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my verbal expression is quite indicative of a meaning

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of [laughs] what I intend to say. 

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You know if I were to make a joke right now,

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you would immediately grasp it or if I express myself paradoxically

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and logically, metaphorically, out of our context,

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we will be creating consensus about the kind of genre I am using.

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Well, this is not the case when the message becomes written,

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not just that but also and more than so digitalized.

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What I am here-- let me step back 

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and be a research person for a second.

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I've notice out of you know, research, constant research

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in different cultures and context is the complete lack of phrases

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of intentionality in the messages being carried

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around when they pass digitally from one sender into a receiver

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and then the other receiver and sender and so on.

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And the same expression goes through some

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"chemical transformations" most of which are unwished.

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So there is not such-- most of the time there is no such thing

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as the mean guy there trying to move words

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and make them just it becomes a random process.

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And when the term which will-- we'll be exploring more I think later

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on in the question and in common discussion,

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when I used the term flat lined there, I meant precisely

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that that digital seemed very nice, is in some way flat.

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But what you get into this flat may not be the originating intention

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of the message, it maybe something completely different.

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How so? Because the field evolves since the beginning

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with some kind of ambiguity. 

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Again, one thing is digitizing and creating wonderful program

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like the one you already have here at the library, making records

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and documents available, coming from the house

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and from all sorts of regions of the world.

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And once again, coming as a result of accurate selections by experts

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and collaboration with other prestigious institution

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which operate as gate keeping systems and filtering protagonist,

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deciding what researchers in the future may like to know

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and have available as to better understand their cultures which is

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that high quality operation and the mission of a digital age

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in high quality situation. 

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And this wilderness as I like to call it this way

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or vital world outside there were digital is a way for any individual

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to be able to make himself or herself visible at all costs

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and at no cost but actually 

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because it's waste overtime [laughs], that free technology.

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So say whatever can be a triggering element for visibility,

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fame whatever and pull it out 

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and this digital document production will in the wilderness out there,

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have more or less the same value as a very important

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and most meaningful document and will create spaces of flotation

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for any individuals within research but not, you know, even just--

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trying to say [laughs], just readers.

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Even readers who wanted to get some good sense about a topic.

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They will not be able, situation now is standing their way it is

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to tell the difference between solid and stable reporting,

24:54.440 --> 24:59.770
let say just that briefing about what has really been happening

24:59.770 --> 25:04.330
in a certain situation and interpretation of it.

25:04.330 --> 25:10.080
Some of it which bound to this self expression, you know,

25:10.080 --> 25:16.010
push and in some way, extreme creative school derivative attitude

25:16.010 --> 25:21.460
where you see that a lot of fantasy and legends

25:21.460 --> 25:27.980
and virtual expression are all mixed up with real fact in a way

25:27.980 --> 25:31.520
that telling the difference is extremely difficult.

25:31.520 --> 25:35.130
So this is a concern. 

25:35.130 --> 25:38.050
This is something people, you know, may like to hear.

25:38.050 --> 25:42.850
Scholars do like to hear that but sometimes,

25:42.850 --> 25:47.220
they don't know what to do at this point.

25:47.220 --> 25:50.930
I'm not getting into the theory, into methodologies but I am getting

25:50.930 --> 25:55.870
into the-- where we stand now because if we define the problem,

25:55.870 --> 26:04.090
you know, in a solid and correct way then we will be able to solve it.

26:04.090 --> 26:09.700
So going back to the first sentence, 

26:09.700 --> 26:14.360
how digital publishing has changed in the last 15 years?

26:14.360 --> 26:19.520
I would say it's been dramatically changing in ways

26:19.520 --> 26:25.930
of which have allowed all sorts of information to come in,

26:25.930 --> 26:32.130
in ways which make it difficult to separate and you know,

26:32.130 --> 26:38.480
in some way identify what is an assertion and what is a paradox,

26:38.480 --> 26:42.250
what is a fantasy or a virtual recreation facts

26:42.250 --> 26:46.810
from what is true and real set of events.

26:46.810 --> 26:53.680
And that change has affected our perception and uses of information,

26:53.680 --> 26:58.510
a sense that of course, readers become very skeptical.

26:58.510 --> 27:02.760
You know, not knowing the source of information, not knowing how much

27:02.760 --> 27:08.510
of those sources have been in some way mixed, combined,

27:08.510 --> 27:12.360
fused or confused, there is an attitude there

27:12.360 --> 27:18.180
which is extremely skeptical or as I said very jumpy [laughs].

27:18.180 --> 27:21.940
Now it looks like my terminology comes closer and closer

27:21.940 --> 27:25.420
to the economy [laughs], the description of a state

27:25.420 --> 27:29.580
of economy today where in some way readers don't know

27:29.580 --> 27:34.250
where to invest their time because that paragraph may lead them

27:34.250 --> 27:38.020
to some, you know, final conclusion which has nothing to do

27:38.020 --> 27:42.740
with what really the case was. 

27:42.740 --> 27:46.850
And authors on the other side are out of control.

27:46.850 --> 27:49.330
There is no boundaries in authorship.

27:49.330 --> 27:58.210
So experimental writing was in some way exported and transferred

27:58.210 --> 28:02.380
into fields where writing has always been about,

28:02.380 --> 28:03.890
you know, accurate writing. 

28:03.890 --> 28:08.980
Think about the reporting, the information and news passing.

28:08.980 --> 28:16.780
Experiment writing like, well, let's make a news more palatable

28:16.780 --> 28:23.110
by introducing characters which may in fact allow readers

28:23.110 --> 28:25.660
to get an insight has become, you know,

28:25.660 --> 28:32.280
like fake personality taking their own lives out of no substantial

28:32.280 --> 28:36.990
and grounded knowledge supporting evidence

28:36.990 --> 28:39.780
for what is being expressed. 

28:39.780 --> 28:48.970
So the message here is about what can publishers do today.

28:48.970 --> 28:50.800
I mean real publisher out there. 

28:50.800 --> 28:55.400
They were in some way challenged at the beginning.

28:55.400 --> 29:01.910
I think that at the very beginning, the digital push was very useful,

29:01.910 --> 29:06.930
you know, as anything it depends on how much you push or, you know,

29:06.930 --> 29:08.850
it's like when you use air conditioning

29:08.850 --> 29:10.310
and you freeze the environment, 

29:10.310 --> 29:13.690
you may want to make it less freezing otherwise you get a

29:13.690 --> 29:15.510
[inaudible]or you know. 

29:15.510 --> 29:19.550
It was in some way good to push a little bit, you know,

29:19.550 --> 29:23.670
the publishing industry with, you know,

29:23.670 --> 29:26.300
an encouragement to use those tools. 

29:26.300 --> 29:31.770
But I think that it went too far as they were bypassing some way

29:31.770 --> 29:34.980
and they are now trying to regain in the market,

29:34.980 --> 29:39.850
a market which has been very much dispersed and dissipated.

29:39.850 --> 29:44.560
So back to our story, what can be done today?

29:44.560 --> 29:50.000
I think what we are facing today is the need

29:50.000 --> 30:01.170
to put back really operating, filtering system at the right place.

30:01.170 --> 30:07.390
The growing global has in fact moved the filtering system

30:07.390 --> 30:13.650
from each local site into a very general generic, you know,

30:13.650 --> 30:17.710
space where filtering is no longer there.

30:17.710 --> 30:22.690
And gate keeping meaning, institution which could tell you,

30:22.690 --> 30:26.110
you know, I represent this country as such I can tell you

30:26.110 --> 30:29.580
that this is stable information versus unstable information.

30:29.580 --> 30:32.480
Of course some people maybe disagreeing on that.

30:32.480 --> 30:35.900
Well I'll tell you, those documents will take care

30:35.900 --> 30:40.290
of indicating their right to express themselves in disagreement.

30:40.290 --> 30:42.040
But at least there were ways 

30:42.040 --> 30:48.240
to classify what was most relevant information

30:48.240 --> 30:52.820
to retain being the official story and even unofficial story

30:52.820 --> 30:56.260
but in some way tags will come with that.

30:56.260 --> 31:00.910
Now those institution have been made weaker and weaker

31:00.910 --> 31:06.390
so that there is an equivalent situation and the flotation

31:06.390 --> 31:14.250
of information bubbles and pieces of extremely important knowledge there

31:14.250 --> 31:18.040
which may not get through because of the quantity

31:18.040 --> 31:24.610
and the overwhelming massive amount of flowing materials.

31:24.610 --> 31:29.980
So if I were to use another term like, you know, technology people

31:29.980 --> 31:36.350
like to have, I would say information today matters a lot.

31:36.350 --> 31:42.630
But it also matters-- the kind of info matter we are using.

31:42.630 --> 31:48.660
And the decision making is such a delicate element of our life

31:48.660 --> 31:51.000
that I'm very aware I'm giving-- 

31:51.000 --> 31:54.490
making this presentation here in Washington.

31:54.490 --> 31:58.790
This is a city which lead to the world in one way or in another.

31:58.790 --> 32:03.940
And my respect, my deepest respect goes to all of you and to each

32:03.940 --> 32:08.310
of the decision maker out there who need to make any kind of decision

32:08.310 --> 32:12.840
in this highly perturbated times. 

32:12.840 --> 32:17.920
Where in some way, technology has been pushing it so much

32:17.920 --> 32:20.820
that it became like boomerang effect.

32:20.820 --> 32:23.920
It came back as a problem. 

32:23.920 --> 32:31.890
Now, if we allow any kind of tool to be equivalent out there and any kind

32:31.890 --> 32:37.040
of message to be out there, how can we find ways to tell

32:37.040 --> 32:42.690
which information maybe solid and stable enough today to help those

32:42.690 --> 32:48.380
who make documented decision to help them through the process.

32:48.380 --> 32:52.330
And how can we tell which documents should be passed

32:52.330 --> 32:56.190
to the next generation also?   Quantity has been overwhelming.

32:56.190 --> 32:58.810
 

32:58.810 --> 33:01.830
Sometimes I think that in the next age, you know,

33:01.830 --> 33:05.890
15 years from now, I wont be here you know.

33:05.890 --> 33:09.370
But the next generation will probably--

33:09.370 --> 33:14.300
young people then would say, "Well why did they have-- did this guys"--

33:14.300 --> 33:18.660
you know, at our age-- "have to let everything so much out of control

33:18.660 --> 33:21.520
to make their lives so difficult, you know."

33:21.520 --> 33:26.610
And because at that point, I think that we will be back in 15 years--

33:26.610 --> 33:34.760
in 50 not 15 years from now to a situation which is more manageable.

33:34.760 --> 33:38.330
What are the side effects in perception and uses of information?

33:38.330 --> 33:44.080
I meant to say skeptics but also feeling of a constant inadequacy

33:44.080 --> 33:50.350
in front of this huge flotation of pieces of stuff and material.

33:50.350 --> 33:54.620
And also, we have to be careful about the cognitive capacities.

33:54.620 --> 33:59.640
As I said, 15 years ago, scholars like myself

33:59.640 --> 34:05.140
and others were very concerned about issues such as--

34:05.140 --> 34:10.730
well if we will train and educate our--

34:10.730 --> 34:14.810
the new generation into fast reading and fast access,

34:14.810 --> 34:21.480
how can we help them go back to some slow reading in depths,

34:21.480 --> 34:26.710
understanding of texts if they just have, you know,

34:26.710 --> 34:31.380
or the clicking attitude toward reading so that you click

34:31.380 --> 34:35.270
from one word and you go a number one and another one and you jumped.

34:35.270 --> 34:39.390
How about, you know, comprehensive reading?

34:39.390 --> 34:41.740
How about summarizing? 

34:41.740 --> 34:47.020
How about checking after the expressive move?

34:47.020 --> 34:53.810
What is left and how that affects the reader, listener, you know,

34:53.810 --> 34:57.430
life out of the speech act 

34:57.430 --> 35:05.280
or that author product being presented and displayed.

35:05.280 --> 35:11.690
So it seems that we have gone in some way just one directionally.

35:11.690 --> 35:14.120
The production is what matters. 

35:14.120 --> 35:17.920
What matters is what is being expressed, is being produced.

35:17.920 --> 35:23.850
How that meets the readers and this isn't a requirement and how

35:23.850 --> 35:27.920
that gets transferred to the next point of more readers

35:27.920 --> 35:31.510
or more listener or just in some way a briefing

35:31.510 --> 35:35.060
of what happened is become less and less important.

35:35.060 --> 35:38.080
And this is also-- I'm going back to the school system for awhile

35:38.080 --> 35:41.050
or you know, the educational system that major problems

35:41.050 --> 35:44.640
which educators today face and encounter.

35:44.640 --> 35:48.190
That sometimes the summary is completely different

35:48.190 --> 35:50.270
than what they said. 

35:50.270 --> 35:55.070
Just because it hits and bumps on other words which meanwhile went

35:55.070 --> 36:01.300
into this space of communication which is not controlled.

36:01.300 --> 36:05.210
Another issue which I just want to-- just like the ball I'm throwing

36:05.210 --> 36:07.680
and that how much more time do I have left?

36:07.680 --> 36:09.540
Because I don't want to go beyond-- 

36:09.540 --> 36:13.180
>> Oh, I could say, 5 to 10 minutes of presentation

36:13.180 --> 36:15.320
and then we need to open it up--   >> Very good.

36:15.320 --> 36:15.900
 

36:15.900 --> 36:17.770
>> -- possible that about those [inaudible]--

36:17.770 --> 36:18.170
>> Okay.   >> -- checking identities.

36:18.170 --> 36:19.550
 

36:19.550 --> 36:19.950
[ Laughter ]   >> Alright.

36:19.950 --> 36:20.480
 

36:20.480 --> 36:23.980
>> In the flat line over there across the [inaudible].

36:23.980 --> 36:24.760
Okay.   >> Very good.

36:24.760 --> 36:26.650
 

36:26.650 --> 36:33.400
So if we think about digital technology and technology,

36:33.400 --> 36:36.250
we can say that these years have been going

36:36.250 --> 36:39.150
through this amplifying mode. 

36:39.150 --> 36:44.560
You know, you have a few resources, you make them available not just

36:44.560 --> 36:49.080
in quantity and number of people who may access but also

36:49.080 --> 36:52.510
for the kind of things you can do.   So it's been opening up.

36:52.510 --> 36:55.310
 

36:55.310 --> 36:58.990
Last has been into converging. 

36:58.990 --> 37:01.430
That's been very centrifugal in many ways.

37:01.430 --> 37:08.590
No centripetal way to come back, more in open space.

37:08.590 --> 37:11.520
Actually, those are the words which have been use in technology.

37:11.520 --> 37:13.890
So it's always about open space, open access.

37:13.890 --> 37:17.670
It's never about close door, you know.

37:17.670 --> 37:22.640
And there is a subtle difference here which I need to make.

37:22.640 --> 37:25.060
I'm not saying we need to constrain and you know,

37:25.060 --> 37:29.850
and compress self expression, I am saying we need to make sure

37:29.850 --> 37:35.840
that whoever is expressing himself for herself via technology,

37:35.840 --> 37:40.550
knows that there will be ways of being understood which he

37:40.550 --> 37:44.270
or she may not predict once in hyper space.

37:44.270 --> 37:47.980
When I'm here, I can clarify with you any concept.

37:47.980 --> 37:51.700
But if I throw an expression in, you know,

37:51.700 --> 37:55.880
in virtual space then I don't know what's coming back.

37:55.880 --> 37:59.130
We knew that since the beginning but that was the point

37:59.130 --> 38:06.270
that then we could in some way merge this tremendously facilitating

38:06.270 --> 38:11.920
tools, helping people connect and so on with a more, you know,

38:11.920 --> 38:15.530
in some ways, self reflected attitude that you get back

38:15.530 --> 38:19.550
and see what the results have been which is never the case

38:19.550 --> 38:22.690
in technology unless you see the results in random way,

38:22.690 --> 38:25.680
a few years ago and say, "Well I thought I had given the message.

38:25.680 --> 38:27.350
I had the people with me. 

38:27.350 --> 38:32.640
How come that two years later, they turn back to me and they're all gone

38:32.640 --> 38:37.500
and they didn't-- it doesn't look like they understood what I meant."

38:37.500 --> 38:42.540
Just because the technology has been used in an open-ended way and never,

38:42.540 --> 38:47.310
you know, in some way or not yet because I'm sure

38:47.310 --> 38:52.030
that the next generation will do a lot more of that.

38:52.030 --> 38:57.010
So another capacity which was too much taken for granted.

38:57.010 --> 39:01.660
Okay, we'll sent digital tools everywhere.

39:01.660 --> 39:05.730
We will send them to places and areas

39:05.730 --> 39:12.930
where they have never been used before as a mean of self expression

39:12.930 --> 39:18.820
and will encourage the capacity, the local capacity of people

39:18.820 --> 39:21.090
to express their truth and so on.   Well, I think that [laughs]--

39:21.090 --> 39:24.240
 

39:24.240 --> 39:26.220
well, this has been a little bit like wine.

39:26.220 --> 39:30.930
You know, you need to tell someone who has never had wine in his life

39:30.930 --> 39:36.070
or her way-- her life needs to know that if you drink a bottle,

39:36.070 --> 39:40.950
something may happen which is not exactly the wine tasting experience.

39:40.950 --> 39:51.780
And so, you know, having been around areas where wine has a denied access

39:51.780 --> 39:55.810
in some ways [laughs] and so had the technology for wine,

39:55.810 --> 39:57.350
a lot of people got drunk. 

39:57.350 --> 40:01.580
I mean, the technology were sent there to be used for briefing,

40:01.580 --> 40:05.860
tell us what happens, you know, be creative your own ways and they came

40:05.860 --> 40:10.880
out retaining images, narratives about things

40:10.880 --> 40:15.890
which were extreme caricature which is fine.

40:15.890 --> 40:18.850
But it was untag, this caricature. 

40:18.850 --> 40:21.780
It was tag as this is how this person is.

40:21.780 --> 40:26.740
This is what happens in my country which is completely out of the blue.

40:26.740 --> 40:32.370
So why do we send wine bottle without pulling a tag on it and say,

40:32.370 --> 40:34.180
you know, if you drink more than so, it will--

40:34.180 --> 40:37.090
some things will happen to you. 

40:37.090 --> 40:41.120
And the most mysterious thing is that areas of the world

40:41.120 --> 40:47.290
which are expected to be able to tell the difference took that as,

40:47.290 --> 40:51.770
okay, this is a report we are having out of these areas.

40:51.770 --> 40:55.800
So not everyone is ready to get the technology

40:55.800 --> 40:59.100
and this is not a discriminatory thing.

40:59.100 --> 41:02.970
It's just a way to say let's be prepared.

41:02.970 --> 41:05.340
Even Americans were unprepared you know [laughs]

41:05.340 --> 41:09.900
as being the first user of a technology because we had to face--

41:09.900 --> 41:10.980
I put it wheeze [phonetic]. 

41:10.980 --> 41:16.810
But Americans-- that part of American life I had

41:16.810 --> 41:21.070
but also European life and that part of Italian life I have,

41:21.070 --> 41:25.860
people were not that ready-- they are either but in our territories,

41:25.860 --> 41:30.680
there were ways to make some scientific explorations.

41:30.680 --> 41:36.370
Oh, this kid has been exposed to technology and I am seeing

41:36.370 --> 41:40.780
that he is having or she is having some attention disorder

41:40.780 --> 41:44.010
and we can tag, you know, some of those problems

41:44.010 --> 41:45.630
and some kind of new diseases. 

41:45.630 --> 41:51.030
You know, it's like-- or research about, you know, people getting lost

41:51.030 --> 41:54.100
in space when doing their own research on the web

41:54.100 --> 41:56.870
and not being able to turn on their senses because they had too much.

41:56.870 --> 42:01.750
And then we pulled this words like information anorexia,

42:01.750 --> 42:05.740
people are getting all these nausea about too much, I cant handle it,

42:05.740 --> 42:08.550
I get desperate and I don't want it. 

42:08.550 --> 42:13.910
Or I want it all, I will never be able to get all of these information

42:13.910 --> 42:16.360
in my life and you eat it up, you know.

42:16.360 --> 42:23.160
And then-- so you-- we have ways to tell when something is dysfunctional

42:23.160 --> 42:27.360
and immediately, we can have a team operating and trying to.

42:27.360 --> 42:30.610
But if it comes from, you know, an area and language is

42:30.610 --> 42:35.600
which is less known and we have to trust institution but what

42:35.600 --> 42:38.640
if those institution filtering us no longer there

42:38.640 --> 42:43.580
or have been taken away the reputation of being reliable one

42:43.580 --> 42:46.410
so that everyone is there stepping up, you know,

42:46.410 --> 42:49.430
which is on her own truth. 

42:49.430 --> 42:55.730
So this is the part I think has been more damaging and had

42:55.730 --> 43:01.330
that it been a little bit slow down, it would have been better, you know.

43:01.330 --> 43:03.760
I have navigated just to give you a, you know,

43:03.760 --> 43:06.870
a personal life experience. 

43:06.870 --> 43:13.760
I had-- you know, my eyes went shot when I saw a documentary produced

43:13.760 --> 43:19.890
in a certain country where they were technically playing,

43:19.890 --> 43:26.310
having been shot by governmental forces with ketchup and colors

43:26.310 --> 43:30.100
in their head which made them look like they were wounded [laughs].

43:30.100 --> 43:35.990
And they saw it as the production which was part of a creative program

43:35.990 --> 43:41.640
in school where they thought it was nice actually to make it look at way

43:41.640 --> 43:46.250
as a creative act, which I think it's good if you pull it

43:46.250 --> 43:51.530
with your tag and say, "I made a theater exercise and I practice.

43:51.530 --> 43:54.480
I made it look like if this guy has shot me

43:54.480 --> 43:57.440
but this is actually ketchup." 

43:57.440 --> 44:02.710
So just some practical example and say, the virtual

44:02.710 --> 44:07.860
and the real is something we master, all of us master.

44:07.860 --> 44:12.440
And our, you know, kid may master as well if we teach them

44:12.440 --> 44:16.460
but if you just pull the tool in a certain, you know,

44:16.460 --> 44:21.290
in a certain place where no one has ever seen anything like that

44:21.290 --> 44:24.870
and you ask them to self express.   This is what can happen.

44:24.870 --> 44:27.030
 

44:27.030 --> 44:31.260
And so you need to be very careful because then this material may go,

44:31.260 --> 44:33.580
you know, to another country and provide evidence

44:33.580 --> 44:36.590
with something really bad which has happen and probably wasn't

44:36.590 --> 44:39.860
as bad as it was pictured. 

44:39.860 --> 44:46.440
So Dr. Fitcher-- and words as one more which we don't see there,

44:46.440 --> 44:53.160
shifting words like a word which everyone should dislike first glance

44:53.160 --> 44:54.950
like a word, contamination. 

44:54.950 --> 44:57.990
If we talk about a word as contamination,

44:57.990 --> 45:01.060
we think about nuclear, about something polluted, whatever,

45:01.060 --> 45:03.930
you know, is something you have to be worried about

45:03.930 --> 45:07.720
and you are warned about consequences.

45:07.720 --> 45:12.130
One of those, again-- once again, one of those subliminal lines

45:12.130 --> 45:16.290
of interpretation, I am talking my experience at least in Europe

45:16.290 --> 45:18.030
but I think it's here as well, 

45:18.030 --> 45:22.270
is to make contamination looked like a good word.

45:22.270 --> 45:26.530
I mean contamination of styles, why would you have to use that word?

45:26.530 --> 45:30.900
I mean, can you say mix the genres or contamination

45:30.900 --> 45:35.060
as you put different things together.

45:35.060 --> 45:38.300
Fine, that is fusion, that is mixing, that is perfect

45:38.300 --> 45:40.940
but contamination means that you are aware

45:40.940 --> 45:44.170
that there are polluted elements and you pull them in

45:44.170 --> 45:46.580
and consider them to be part of a package.

45:46.580 --> 45:50.050
And this is again, one of those attitude

45:50.050 --> 45:52.200
with the digital world can-- 

45:52.200 --> 45:55.910
where the digital world can make the difference because you can tell,

45:55.910 --> 45:59.990
you know, I am pulling together documentary where I am, you know,

45:59.990 --> 46:04.980
in serving a certain elements of fantasy, legends and some elements

46:04.980 --> 46:09.930
which are truth and you say, this is a contaminated document.

46:09.930 --> 46:13.640
In this court, contaminated means that there are pieces

46:13.640 --> 46:15.950
of different information coming in. 

46:15.950 --> 46:21.490
How about pulling them together so that you know which is which?

46:21.490 --> 46:25.350
No, the fusion and contamination actual attitude and is most

46:25.350 --> 46:28.610
of the time encouraging to pull everything together

46:28.610 --> 46:31.430
so that the expression level is higher.

46:31.430 --> 46:36.580
So in some way, it's a way to keep your reader interested into that.

46:36.580 --> 46:41.700
As a concept of the quantity of the product, obviously,

46:41.700 --> 46:45.960
the main issue is how can I capture the reader's or listener's

46:45.960 --> 46:51.530
or audience' attention at so that he will not walk away.

46:51.530 --> 46:56.760
So the level of extraordinary, you know,

46:56.760 --> 47:01.470
fact or special effects has been increasing proportionally

47:01.470 --> 47:03.440
and going higher and higher. 

47:03.440 --> 47:08.910
If the issue is, how can I attract my audience no matter what

47:08.910 --> 47:13.410
and how can I make it because I have about over thousand product,

47:13.410 --> 47:15.600
you know, competing with me? 

47:15.600 --> 47:20.790
Obviously, you have to make sure, I mean the producer

47:20.790 --> 47:24.140
of the product [laughs]-- whatever product it is, being a video,

47:24.140 --> 47:29.870
being text, being in conversation-- needs to make sure that he

47:29.870 --> 47:37.480
or she can do something which has an impact of a certain kind-- type.

47:37.480 --> 47:40.580
>> Graziella, I'm wondering if you could conclude with a little bit

47:40.580 --> 47:44.040
about the comparison with the situations in the United States

47:44.040 --> 47:46.560
and Europe that we talked about yesterday.

47:46.560 --> 47:46.960
>> Okay.   >> I know that we find interesting

47:46.960 --> 47:48.580
 

47:48.580 --> 47:51.260
and then we'll open it up for questions.

47:51.260 --> 47:52.120
>> Okay, good. 

47:52.120 --> 47:54.820
So let's see what the situation of United States related

47:54.820 --> 47:59.660
to InfoBubble is-- InfoBubble-- the InfoBubble's here,

47:59.660 --> 48:05.530
I am in some way defining that lot of chit chat conversation going

48:05.530 --> 48:11.990
on about different issues which lead to a lot of information

48:11.990 --> 48:15.360
that has nothing to do with truth and reality.

48:15.360 --> 48:19.270
But it becomes in some way a reality on its own.

48:19.270 --> 48:22.340
And because it grows larger and larger and bigger and bigger,

48:22.340 --> 48:26.140
it does have an impact on how people think.

48:26.140 --> 48:30.040
You know, be it result of an extreme use of Facebook about each kind

48:30.040 --> 48:33.100
of topics, it becomes something real 

48:33.100 --> 48:36.020
and dependently on verification side.

48:36.020 --> 48:40.560
Post attack area is by using post like postmodernist and so on.

48:40.560 --> 48:45.110
You sometime-- you know, in some way you see the decadent part

48:45.110 --> 48:51.590
of every area of technology and the high tech area wasn't exactly meant,

48:51.590 --> 48:55.140
you know, to reach this kinds of results.

48:55.140 --> 48:59.150
So I'm saying-- I'm seeing those elements as elements

48:59.150 --> 49:01.930
which are not just extreme but not the ones

49:01.930 --> 49:05.270
which were intended by the founders. 

49:05.270 --> 49:10.260
So InfoBubbles is information which may affect people's judgment

49:10.260 --> 49:14.220
and reason and reasoning like when you say there's a bubble in economy,

49:14.220 --> 49:17.650
you know, when values of things were way too high

49:17.650 --> 49:21.370
and then they were meant to in some way collapse down

49:21.370 --> 49:25.260
and become more realistic, the so called the Silicon Valley.

49:25.260 --> 49:29.120
You know, bubbling economy which we all knew would have an end

49:29.120 --> 49:32.400
and things would go back a little bit more to normal.

49:32.400 --> 49:35.650
Same thing in for bubbles, you know, anything can be created

49:35.650 --> 49:38.590
at any times including of the possibility

49:38.590 --> 49:42.000
of digital manipulation of documents, you know.

49:42.000 --> 49:45.450
You know that with images, you can merge and do all kinds of things.

49:45.450 --> 49:46.900
You can pull together pieces 

49:46.900 --> 49:49.330
of different images and make them look real.

49:49.330 --> 49:51.740
Move them around in ways that they are movies

49:51.740 --> 49:53.940
which have nothing to do with reality.

49:53.940 --> 49:56.650
But this InfoBubbles, once they are there, they are there

49:56.650 --> 50:00.120
and they have the same amount of-- 

50:00.120 --> 50:03.950
the same life cycle which any other document has

50:03.950 --> 50:07.040
and that is the most worrying part, you know.

50:07.040 --> 50:10.690
And obviously anytime I tackle this topic, I need to make sure

50:10.690 --> 50:13.470
that people don't think I'm against, you know, freedom of expression.

50:13.470 --> 50:14.190
Not at all. 

50:14.190 --> 50:16.230
But I'm saying, you know, yes the freedom

50:16.230 --> 50:20.530
of expression is the most precious thing but you need to see

50:20.530 --> 50:21.920
which expression is there. 

50:21.920 --> 50:24.910
You know and you need to make sure the author will,

50:24.910 --> 50:27.300
you know, tag his or her product. 

50:27.300 --> 50:30.790
Like, a little bit I could say with food, where is the food coming from?

50:30.790 --> 50:34.690
You know, where-- you know, you pull in the ingredients of that.

50:34.690 --> 50:39.470
I think that-- the-- if I was to say what are we coming out of this talk,

50:39.470 --> 50:42.740
I wish that each of you will say, "Well, from now on we need to know

50:42.740 --> 50:46.080
which ingredients are in each of this text or documents

50:46.080 --> 50:51.470
or info matter flowing which we are exposed to".

50:51.470 --> 50:55.410
So ingredients like how much of that do you have in this document.

50:55.410 --> 51:01.550
Real versus my opinion versus a verified information and so on.

51:01.550 --> 51:04.870
InfoBubbles do affect any kind of decision making

51:04.870 --> 51:08.440
and do affect mass reasoning. 

51:08.440 --> 51:14.360
I mean, people and groups of people do are very much affected

51:14.360 --> 51:19.060
by this InfoBubbles because InfoBubbles are pervasive

51:19.060 --> 51:21.790
and they bounce very easily throughout the technology

51:21.790 --> 51:26.340
and they create groups with in some way identify with the messages

51:26.340 --> 51:28.870
which are being carried by InfoBubble.

51:28.870 --> 51:32.250
So it is very, very delicate thing because it's

51:32.250 --> 51:35.430
like a kid you have given a big balloon and then you want--

51:35.430 --> 51:38.770
don't want to take the balloon back, the kid is going to cry.

51:38.770 --> 51:44.030
So we need to be aware that they become attached to that and most

51:44.030 --> 51:47.890
of them do evolve their own personality and roles and persona

51:47.890 --> 51:49.610
around those InfoBubbles. 

51:49.610 --> 51:54.260
And on top of that, some InfoBubbles come as the result of bubbles

51:54.260 --> 51:58.840
in Europe which bounce back and now we go into the situation,

51:58.840 --> 52:05.170
the European situation which I say, you know, we think that Europe

52:05.170 --> 52:09.320
and the United States are close but there are so many difference

52:09.320 --> 52:12.260
which you don't see but which-- what--

52:12.260 --> 52:15.340
which most people don't see but are there, you know.

52:15.340 --> 52:19.040
And the mentalities are different and when they merge,

52:19.040 --> 52:21.130
I wish they could merge for the best.

52:21.130 --> 52:22.530
Sometimes they don't. 

52:22.530 --> 52:27.260
So situation in Europe, shrinking identity is--

52:27.260 --> 52:31.110
well Europe is undergoing very interesting times.

52:31.110 --> 52:36.040
You know, this Europe concept which is nothing could be abstract

52:36.040 --> 52:43.840
and virtual than that has in some way led different countries to have

52:43.840 --> 52:47.520
to accommodate and adjust new generation

52:47.520 --> 52:51.070
like to defend the [inaudible] European and this means

52:51.070 --> 52:53.070
that they have been shrinking because a lot of thing

52:53.070 --> 52:55.210
out of their own country culture have lost.

52:55.210 --> 52:58.960
If it have to become, you know, part of the Europe context,

52:58.960 --> 53:02.610
a lot of Italians take a lot Italianity away

53:02.610 --> 53:04.090
and French people do the same. 

53:04.090 --> 53:09.710
So they become-- in some way they become thinner and thinner on that.

53:09.710 --> 53:13.130
And even the use of language, there just never been a common language

53:13.130 --> 53:16.590
in Europe, you know, differently than here that you have in English,

53:16.590 --> 53:21.550
then you tend to have a flat land where language is do adopt

53:21.550 --> 53:24.490
to the Europe concept in a way that they become flat.

53:24.490 --> 53:27.460
Well, flat is not a good thing [laughs].

53:27.460 --> 53:32.740
Because it takes a way lot of a local flavors and the variety

53:32.740 --> 53:37.860
and in some way, it becomes like more of a general code.

53:37.860 --> 53:43.960
And the bouncing back and forth of concepts when they come from here,

53:43.960 --> 53:50.090
there and there still are subject to a lot of modification,

53:50.090 --> 53:52.350
some of which as I started talking 

53:52.350 --> 53:56.770
about maybe visible some are one, the other ones are not.

53:56.770 --> 54:02.150
So we need to be very careful about this elements and problems

54:02.150 --> 54:06.830
because I think and I'm not just saying I think,

54:06.830 --> 54:10.990
I'm quite sure this is the reason why we do have

54:10.990 --> 54:14.630
so many problems also in economy today.

54:14.630 --> 54:19.410
So the economy is very much bound to those contradictory elements

54:19.410 --> 54:20.860
and if someone were to say, 

54:20.860 --> 54:23.830
how comes that we are getting them all now?

54:23.830 --> 54:29.290
I think they actually way too much accelerated speed has caused a lot

54:29.290 --> 54:33.680
of collateral effects which were there and not probably coped

54:33.680 --> 54:36.970
with adequately when they showed up has created--

54:36.970 --> 54:42.830
have created this more general and confused state.

54:42.830 --> 54:45.940
Now being [inaudible] and then cloth my closure of this part

54:45.940 --> 54:49.510
of the speech is my full respect for those

54:49.510 --> 54:51.030
who need to make decision today. 

54:51.030 --> 54:53.580
For the people who live in Washington and come to Washington do

54:53.580 --> 54:58.100
that because this is one of the most difficult areas ever encounters,

54:58.100 --> 55:00.570
nothing to do with the Gutenbug and print.

55:00.570 --> 55:05.060
That was, you know, compared to what we have today, it is really nothing.

55:05.060 --> 55:08.720
So the mission of any scholar and scientist

55:08.720 --> 55:16.370
in operating here should be actually encouraging tools and ways

55:16.370 --> 55:21.720
to facilitate processes and to simplify and over

55:21.720 --> 55:27.160
and sometime very detrimentally complex world.

55:27.160 --> 55:31.780
And I think I will stop here to see if we can get in depth

55:31.780 --> 55:34.460
into more issue with a conversation and I--

55:34.460 --> 55:34.860
[ Overlapping Voice ]   >> Okay, thank you Graziella.

55:34.860 --> 55:35.690
 

55:35.690 --> 55:37.660
Let us give her a round of applause-- [Applause]--

55:37.660 --> 55:44.460
for giving us insight and to her complicated and very full agenda

55:44.460 --> 55:48.760
of topics that she has worked hard to sort out to present to us

55:48.760 --> 55:51.370
and then there are-- there is some time for some question.

55:51.370 --> 55:56.330
So if anyone has any, I'd like to call you back up to either elaborate

55:56.330 --> 55:59.670
on some of the points you've made or talk a little bit more

55:59.670 --> 56:04.120
about your personal experience and confronting some of these issues,

56:04.120 --> 56:07.680
both as a researcher here and in Europe.

56:07.680 --> 56:10.350
But let me open it up at the beginning to see

56:10.350 --> 56:13.100
if there's any-- any other questions.

56:13.100 --> 56:14.430
>> Including objections [laughs]. 

56:14.430 --> 56:16.770
>> Including objections she tells me.

56:16.770 --> 56:21.510
She's so concerned to be fair minded in every way.

56:21.510 --> 56:24.550
 

56:24.550 --> 56:25.500
Yes please, any-- 

56:25.500 --> 56:28.230
>> Just maybe a little [inaudible] but I'm just concerned

56:28.230 --> 56:30.550
because you're saying the situation in Europe

56:30.550 --> 56:33.350
and there's true concern information among

56:33.350 --> 56:36.330
that the current culture and languages.

56:36.330 --> 56:39.960
How is the concept of, you know, like social networking there

56:39.960 --> 56:44.230
as compare it to the US, how was that?

56:44.230 --> 56:47.710
>> The question was how about social networking and all of these?

56:47.710 --> 56:53.110
Where does it fit and how do you see it as situation as--

56:53.110 --> 56:53.510
>> Okay.   >> -- trend.

56:53.510 --> 56:53.910
 

56:53.910 --> 56:55.780
It's not only a trend, it in fact is part

56:55.780 --> 57:00.590
of this new digital publishing atmosphere that's been developed.

57:00.590 --> 57:04.380
>> Thank you so much for this question which allows me to,

57:04.380 --> 57:07.140
you know, bring out one of those issues I was mentioning before

57:07.140 --> 57:11.210
about differences in the mentality and the ideology

57:11.210 --> 57:13.480
in United States and Europe.   Social network in Europe is a lot

57:13.480 --> 57:16.720
 

57:16.720 --> 57:19.030
about winning and lamenting [laughs].

57:19.030 --> 57:21.970
It is true. 

57:21.970 --> 57:25.280
It's about-- it's very aggressive, most of the time.

57:25.280 --> 57:29.400
Its self expression meant to be, you know, something is wrong,

57:29.400 --> 57:30.710
this is wrong, that's wrong. 

57:30.710 --> 57:38.470
It's a lot of about resentful attitude toward things.

57:38.470 --> 57:41.940
In most of the time, the interesting thing-this force,

57:41.940 --> 57:43.630
this winning lamenting force 

57:43.630 --> 57:48.210
which is very powerful is not necessarily meant

57:48.210 --> 57:52.540
to actually have real actions but it's just like the music,

57:52.540 --> 57:54.750
the sound of the social network. 

57:54.750 --> 58:04.880
Everyone is compulsory lamenting or in some way attacking people,

58:04.880 --> 58:08.270
you know, attacking governments, attacking decision making and so on.

58:08.270 --> 58:09.720
It becomes some kind of-- 

58:09.720 --> 58:13.240
in some levels some kind of psychoanalytic [laughs] game

58:13.240 --> 58:19.490
or where people gather and it's all about things which are not working.

58:19.490 --> 58:25.490
One of the most wonderful thing which I found, I as born in Italy,

58:25.490 --> 58:29.880
you know, person, when I first came to United States, the people were

58:29.880 --> 58:32.140
so proud, they never wane and lament.

58:32.140 --> 58:35.390
You know, this is the most extraordinary thing I'll always

58:35.390 --> 58:35.850
found [inaudible].   Now things don't work fine.

58:35.850 --> 58:38.730
 

58:38.730 --> 58:41.520
We'll find a way to have them work.   So this is the value here

58:41.520 --> 58:43.860
 

58:43.860 --> 58:47.830
and so social network here is not so much that way.

58:47.830 --> 58:52.610
If it becomes so, is because of this bouncing back and forth

58:52.610 --> 58:56.310
of message around, you know, back and forth the Atlantic.

58:56.310 --> 58:59.730
Because the attitude of lamenting, attacking being very aggressive

58:59.730 --> 59:03.720
on social network is in some way as, you know,

59:03.720 --> 59:08.230
Ancient Greek like to call it a cathartic experience.

59:08.230 --> 59:12.040
You go to the theater and you see all this, you know, horrible tragedy

59:12.040 --> 59:16.440
and then at the end, you know, [inaudible] literally wonderful

59:16.440 --> 59:19.290
but if you think about the plot, those are terrible.

59:19.290 --> 59:24.890
And after that, you will account and you'll find and you know,

59:24.890 --> 59:27.590
a lot of social network in Europe is about that.

59:27.590 --> 59:31.810
And I would extend the concept to some other areas

59:31.810 --> 59:36.140
where the complaint is part of a culture.

59:36.140 --> 59:38.050
If you don't complain, you're not part of it.

59:38.050 --> 59:41.920
But it doesn't mean that necessarily you want things change.

59:41.920 --> 59:44.440
You like the complaint to be there. 

59:44.440 --> 59:46.950
This is one of the-- whereas if we come--

59:46.950 --> 59:50.580
if I see people complaining in United States, I would,

59:50.580 --> 59:53.850
you know hundred percent of the time, say,

59:53.850 --> 59:57.910
this person must have been in Europe and must have [laughs]-- yeah.

59:57.910 --> 1:00:02.800
This is one of those packages bouncing back and forth.

1:00:02.800 --> 1:00:06.580
And I don't know how it would be here as a consequence

1:00:06.580 --> 1:00:10.370
because as I say, you know, as be in between cultures and continents,

1:00:10.370 --> 1:00:13.680
I know that sometimes when you feel a lot of complains there

1:00:13.680 --> 1:00:17.130
and you'll see people filling complaints and then you say, "Okay,

1:00:17.130 --> 1:00:22.070
you are complaining about that, I am going to change it for you."

1:00:22.070 --> 1:00:25.360
And the person goes, "What do you mean?

1:00:25.360 --> 1:00:27.610
I want to have the right to complain."

1:00:27.610 --> 1:00:29.270
That's how. 

1:00:29.270 --> 1:00:33.090
So I don't know that would be transformed once it comes back here,

1:00:33.090 --> 1:00:36.210
you know, where people take action on things, you know.

1:00:36.210 --> 1:00:39.670
I'll be worried about it.   Yup?

1:00:39.670 --> 1:00:40.070
 

1:00:40.070 --> 1:00:41.710
>> I have a question.   >> Oh okay.

1:00:41.710 --> 1:00:42.930
 

1:00:42.930 --> 1:00:45.240
Carol first and then I'll take your question.

1:00:45.240 --> 1:00:51.390
>> Well, it's just quickly to follow this-- is complaints to not.

1:00:51.390 --> 1:00:54.920
When there's a lot of social networking in Europe,

1:00:54.920 --> 1:00:58.000
I'm wondering the percentage on [inaudible] media class

1:00:58.000 --> 1:01:02.860
like it was needed the upset to demonstrated about this or that.

1:01:02.860 --> 1:01:07.290
How much of this participate in the linguistic flat line and goes

1:01:07.290 --> 1:01:12.170
out to all of Europe, for example in English as opposed to Italian

1:01:12.170 --> 1:01:14.460
or in the other European language. 

1:01:14.460 --> 1:01:19.870
So how-- what would you guess or is there any comment

1:01:19.870 --> 1:01:24.910
about the percentage of social networking that remain to that

1:01:24.910 --> 1:01:28.110
in linguistic community in Europe and what percentage

1:01:28.110 --> 1:01:34.050
for example addresses Europe as the European?

1:01:34.050 --> 1:01:36.520
>> It-- well, you know, the complaint thing

1:01:36.520 --> 1:01:39.810
and then the satirical, you know, the caricaturing,

1:01:39.810 --> 1:01:43.830
it's sometime really heavy, you know, not pleasant thing

1:01:43.830 --> 1:01:49.950
which goes all around Europe has become again the Euro sentiment.

1:01:49.950 --> 1:01:52.360
You know, people are very much connected and you see

1:01:52.360 --> 1:01:55.390
that the same event may happen around Rome and then goes

1:01:55.390 --> 1:01:59.350
on in Paris at the same time as on in Madrid and has to do

1:01:59.350 --> 1:02:02.610
with this interconnectivity where you know,

1:02:02.610 --> 1:02:06.390
some French student may know nothing about the political situation

1:02:06.390 --> 1:02:09.700
over country but some French over there calls them up and say,

1:02:09.700 --> 1:02:11.910
now you have to complain because I'll tell you it's bad.

1:02:11.910 --> 1:02:15.430
It's not going to even verify it, you know whatever.

1:02:15.430 --> 1:02:18.340
It's just like groups where-- 

1:02:18.340 --> 1:02:19.790
>> Some languages, is this going you know.

1:02:19.790 --> 1:02:23.170
>> It goes on, well because of this harassments to programs,

1:02:23.170 --> 1:02:27.100
students bounce back and forth a lot around Europe.

1:02:27.100 --> 1:02:32.210
They create some kind of Englishes, you know, kind of [laughs] dialect--

1:02:32.210 --> 1:02:36.660
European dialect, you know, in the shape for English but not just that.

1:02:36.660 --> 1:02:39.710
And it doesn't matter if the language, the principle is.

1:02:39.710 --> 1:02:44.780
My friend over there is telling me that this government is not working,

1:02:44.780 --> 1:02:48.730
I have no idea what's going on but let's demonstrate against it.

1:02:48.730 --> 1:02:50.730
That's exactly what's going on.   >> [Laughs] That's right.

1:02:50.730 --> 1:02:51.540
 

1:02:51.540 --> 1:02:55.060
>> Let's make it like it's going to be a party, you know, we'll bounce

1:02:55.060 --> 1:02:57.510
and there is no commonality of intent.

1:02:57.510 --> 1:03:00.250
Actually, if you ask them to explain what's going on,

1:03:00.250 --> 1:03:01.950
they know nothing-- they no nothing. 

1:03:01.950 --> 1:03:05.170
The caricaturing is very, very unpleasant.

1:03:05.170 --> 1:03:08.430
You know, the way people are being caricature is nothing to do

1:03:08.430 --> 1:03:11.040
with freedom of expression and freedom of whatever.

1:03:11.040 --> 1:03:13.410
It's very-- most of the time very offensive,

1:03:13.410 --> 1:03:18.200
very strong to make sure that, you know, by just Twittering, you know,

1:03:18.200 --> 1:03:22.850
you go-- you go Plaza de Sol while I am at the coliseum and we'd both,

1:03:22.850 --> 1:03:25.970
you know, do something so that people, you know,

1:03:25.970 --> 1:03:28.420
can tell we're united in some kind of protest.

1:03:28.420 --> 1:03:29.930
The content is not there.   The content is not there.

1:03:29.930 --> 1:03:30.970
 

1:03:30.970 --> 1:03:32.470
It's very, very upsetting-- 

1:03:32.470 --> 1:03:35.960
is the connection thing, they feel connected.

1:03:35.960 --> 1:03:39.690
And actually, the technology are helping in a great way

1:03:39.690 --> 1:03:40.670
because it's all for free.   I mean, I wish it could be.

1:03:40.670 --> 1:03:42.330
 

1:03:42.330 --> 1:03:47.130
A lot of demonstration would not go on if you were charging.

1:03:47.130 --> 1:03:47.640
>> That's right. 

1:03:47.640 --> 1:03:51.560
>> If you were pulling in some one dollar for any Twitter or you pull

1:03:51.560 --> 1:03:55.350
in some whatever for Facebook, 

1:03:55.350 --> 1:03:58.100
Plaza's will go desert off, let me tell you.

1:03:58.100 --> 1:04:01.760
They will not going to put in dollar and a Euro into them.

1:04:01.760 --> 1:04:03.830
Okay, and there was question. 

1:04:03.830 --> 1:04:10.210
>> So I realized we're short on time but I wanted to ask if you get

1:04:10.210 --> 1:04:14.110
to at the optimistic vision for the future that in the few decades

1:04:14.110 --> 1:04:17.330
that we should have negotiated this period of change

1:04:17.330 --> 1:04:21.270
and that it would have filters and regulatory mechanisms

1:04:21.270 --> 1:04:23.510
and improve the increased context throughout the

1:04:23.510 --> 1:04:24.310
communications [inaudible]. 

1:04:24.310 --> 1:04:29.130
Can you comment a little bit about what you see could be the solutions

1:04:29.130 --> 1:04:35.450
and if you see emerging areas or if not emerging areas then advice.

1:04:35.450 --> 1:04:39.640
>> I see it-- I hope in positive attitudes are there but it will be

1:04:39.640 --> 1:04:44.410
as a consequence of the extreme that we are experiencing today.

1:04:44.410 --> 1:04:45.880
It's just like people will-- 

1:04:45.880 --> 1:04:50.260
next generation be nauseated about this continuing need by us,

1:04:50.260 --> 1:04:54.240
you know, by the whole system of, you know, pulling it all out

1:04:54.240 --> 1:04:56.510
and I see that would be much more silent,

1:04:56.510 --> 1:04:58.710
where silence will be the value, you know.

1:04:58.710 --> 1:05:04.310
In some way, it will be just like you go for extreme in history.

1:05:04.310 --> 1:05:07.430
It would be as a consequence of this extreme now.

1:05:07.430 --> 1:05:10.620
I don't see it as-- you know, what I wish to see

1:05:10.620 --> 1:05:13.710
and this is why I'm giving-- making this presentation about this topic

1:05:13.710 --> 1:05:16.890
in Washington, I think there is an immediate need

1:05:16.890 --> 1:05:21.330
to provide decision makers with the right tool to be able

1:05:21.330 --> 1:05:23.320
to tell the difference about fake 

1:05:23.320 --> 1:05:27.250
and forge information be it called the creative or whatever,

1:05:27.250 --> 1:05:30.460
not reliable or just literature, that's fine,

1:05:30.460 --> 1:05:31.790
you know, if there's a novel. 

1:05:31.790 --> 1:05:36.720
And the important pieces which may get lost because they are not,

1:05:36.720 --> 1:05:39.070
you know, sub-booming the way they are expressed

1:05:39.070 --> 1:05:41.320
and they don't make it, you know, 

1:05:41.320 --> 1:05:44.920
through the right ears to be listened to.

1:05:44.920 --> 1:05:47.960
I see that as urge and that's also the reason I am here,

1:05:47.960 --> 1:05:49.640
I'm giving, making the presentation. 

1:05:49.640 --> 1:05:51.870
But in terms of the public, you know,

1:05:51.870 --> 1:05:57.200
the mass produced perceptive attitude which have been developed,

1:05:57.200 --> 1:06:01.250
I think that will come as a consequence of some kind of a nausea

1:06:01.250 --> 1:06:03.830
out of the too much we have today.   Because those are circles we have.

1:06:03.830 --> 1:06:06.880
 

1:06:06.880 --> 1:06:10.530
I mean, this is like the wheel, it needs to go all the way

1:06:10.530 --> 1:06:12.090
down and has its own circles. 

1:06:12.090 --> 1:06:14.650
You can't really block it because now if you say,

1:06:14.650 --> 1:06:19.300
'Well I don't want you to use Twitter to do this kind of things."

1:06:19.300 --> 1:06:24.450
Then you will be considered to be against freedom of expression,

1:06:24.450 --> 1:06:28.860
you'd be consider to be some what-- so they will reject that attitude,

1:06:28.860 --> 1:06:31.990
making it very difficult. 

1:06:31.990 --> 1:06:36.890
And so it will have to go through some kind of "enough" we had.

1:06:36.890 --> 1:06:41.350
It's like we had so much and we are in some way now looking

1:06:41.350 --> 1:06:45.770
for a completely different way of presentation,

1:06:45.770 --> 1:06:47.570
connection and communication. 

1:06:47.570 --> 1:06:50.680
And this will take a generation I think.

1:06:50.680 --> 1:06:54.960
This generation is still experiencing the total, you know,

1:06:54.960 --> 1:07:04.020
availability of everything and what is very sad to see is that the level

1:07:04.020 --> 1:07:08.220
of knowledge they are reaching is so much lower than the level

1:07:08.220 --> 1:07:11.890
of knowledge, we, our generation of different generations reached

1:07:11.890 --> 1:07:13.350
because of this consequence 

1:07:13.350 --> 1:07:15.880
of attention deficit disorders being occurred.

1:07:15.880 --> 1:07:17.590
So they don't stick on the same topic.

1:07:17.590 --> 1:07:20.820
They jump around-- it's very jumpy generation.

1:07:20.820 --> 1:07:24.820
The one which is out also, you know, public manifestations--

1:07:24.820 --> 1:07:29.380
you can't keep on the same topic and they move around.

1:07:29.380 --> 1:07:31.230
So we'll have to go through that. 

1:07:31.230 --> 1:07:33.240
So history would be like revolution theory.

1:07:33.240 --> 1:07:37.950
You go from one stage and then you become so saturated

1:07:37.950 --> 1:07:39.460
by that that you go to extreme. 

1:07:39.460 --> 1:07:41.840
I think that in-- I mean 50 years from now,

1:07:41.840 --> 1:07:44.440
people would be very much fed up with that

1:07:44.440 --> 1:07:47.680
and be just how much do I really need to know,

1:07:47.680 --> 1:07:50.490
rest part I'm not concerned.   Yup?

1:07:50.490 --> 1:07:51.120
 

1:07:51.120 --> 1:07:54.940
>> We're kind of affect do you think people have in a long term

1:07:54.940 --> 1:07:57.860
and I hope I was asking this right. 

1:07:57.860 --> 1:08:00.560
The technology were speeding up, there's just--

1:08:00.560 --> 1:08:02.450
there's so many iformation. 

1:08:02.450 --> 1:08:05.730
You can't tell sometimes if it's true or not,

1:08:05.730 --> 1:08:10.990
in terms of the pure scholarship that should be going on all along.

1:08:10.990 --> 1:08:15.230
What happens in the age where we're jumping ahead and pretending--

1:08:15.230 --> 1:08:15.810
>> Yeah. 

1:08:15.810 --> 1:08:18.750
>> -- in the long term, are we going to suffer from that?

1:08:18.750 --> 1:08:20.140
Did you understand from my question?   >> Yeah, yeah.

1:08:20.140 --> 1:08:20.720
 

1:08:20.720 --> 1:08:23.060
Oh this is a-- I think it's already--

1:08:23.060 --> 1:08:25.850
you're posting the question and answering yourself.

1:08:25.850 --> 1:08:29.710
There's a tremendous stress, it's very stressful because even

1:08:29.710 --> 1:08:33.250
if you think about talking academically now and scholarly,

1:08:33.250 --> 1:08:36.390
you know, it's this review of this journal hasn't accept

1:08:36.390 --> 1:08:39.030
in my paper, I can post it, whatever.

1:08:39.030 --> 1:08:40.330
It has the same value.   I make my own blog so, you know,

1:08:40.330 --> 1:08:43.330
 

1:08:43.330 --> 1:08:48.340
in some areas where reliability is a plus, plus concept,

1:08:48.340 --> 1:08:50.770
think about engineering, you know, you can--

1:08:50.770 --> 1:08:53.160
you know where you have to-- you know, you have to build the bridge

1:08:53.160 --> 1:08:57.230
and eventually that needs to stand, you know, or areas like medicine,

1:08:57.230 --> 1:08:58.390
this is really difficult. 

1:08:58.390 --> 1:09:01.420
It's nothing to with those projects which were

1:09:01.420 --> 1:09:07.190
about digitizing those stable and verified even if innovative.

1:09:07.190 --> 1:09:13.290
Of course, innovative of stabilized and stable and secure information--

1:09:13.290 --> 1:09:16.590
specialized information which is absolutely needed.

1:09:16.590 --> 1:09:21.110
Now you have this, you know, I can publish and pull it out

1:09:21.110 --> 1:09:25.040
and if I get enough readers, I'm the winner.

1:09:25.040 --> 1:09:28.500
It doesn't matter which the content is.

1:09:28.500 --> 1:09:30.980
And then the same idea, I'll throw this

1:09:30.980 --> 1:09:34.470
and then we'll see the consequences and most of which--

1:09:34.470 --> 1:09:37.420
and so it's market deciding but this is a very,

1:09:37.420 --> 1:09:39.220
very scary thing, you know. 

1:09:39.220 --> 1:09:44.070
And actually, this is also the theory level has become quite scary,

1:09:44.070 --> 1:09:44.660
you know. 

1:09:44.660 --> 1:09:48.500
It isn't-- I mean I come from a tradition which has been talking

1:09:48.500 --> 1:09:50.800
about my experience at MIT when I was

1:09:50.800 --> 1:09:53.700
in Boston, you know, in early '80. 

1:09:53.700 --> 1:09:56.120
And artificial intelligence lab, high tech environment, before any

1:09:56.120 --> 1:09:58.170
or say, wonderful freedom of figuring out, any kind of solution

1:09:58.170 --> 1:09:59.430
to the problem as far as you could demonstrate,

1:09:59.430 --> 1:10:00.320
it was working, you know.   9 So what would happen?

1:10:00.320 --> 1:10:02.890
 

1:10:02.890 --> 1:10:09.680
We gather, I have my theory of this course I presented and all

1:10:09.680 --> 1:10:16.760
of my friends turn for an hour into my enemies because they try

1:10:16.760 --> 1:10:22.050
to tear apart my theory and all of that.

1:10:22.050 --> 1:10:25.500
And I can respond if the theory is good, fine, that's it.

1:10:25.500 --> 1:10:29.270
If it's bad, okay, we'll discard it away and we'll make a different one.

1:10:29.270 --> 1:10:34.490
I don't-- this is what, you know, make United States grand [laughs].

1:10:34.490 --> 1:10:40.720
Because the product goes out of lab only when it's being tested

1:10:40.720 --> 1:10:42.830
and we are sure that it's working.   Now, no that isn't the case.

1:10:42.830 --> 1:10:45.370
 

1:10:45.370 --> 1:10:48.420
Now I have-- oh what a good idea have I throw it

1:10:48.420 --> 1:10:51.770
into the a page then I'll post it, it's everyone idea

1:10:51.770 --> 1:10:57.190
and if I can gain adequate amount of readers, I am the one who is right.

1:10:57.190 --> 1:10:59.750
It doesn't matter the other one has a better theory

1:10:59.750 --> 1:11:08.550
but his style is not so, you know, so in some way attracted, so fine.

1:11:08.550 --> 1:11:09.970
That theory goes away. 

1:11:09.970 --> 1:11:14.200
We don't have the same, you know, filtering which you--

1:11:14.200 --> 1:11:17.620
we used to have and this is my concern.

1:11:17.620 --> 1:11:18.370
This is my concern. 

1:11:18.370 --> 1:11:21.490
So scholars are suffering a lot until then and I see

1:11:21.490 --> 1:11:25.370
that as a reflect-- you know, I see that for instance,

1:11:25.370 --> 1:11:28.450
it you look at the literature, you see more and more papers coming

1:11:28.450 --> 1:11:32.840
out with 5 or 6 co-authors which is, you know,

1:11:32.840 --> 1:11:34.790
and sometimes I make a joke and said, well,

1:11:34.790 --> 1:11:37.490
5-6 co-authors is a good way because if something is wrong,

1:11:37.490 --> 1:11:39.540
it's no one's responsibility [laughs]

1:11:39.540 --> 1:11:43.040
because it's always there is someone with you.

1:11:43.040 --> 1:11:45.920
And if things are good, then we share them, okay.

1:11:45.920 --> 1:11:50.660
But I mean this isn't-- I mean it's very stressful on academics also

1:11:50.660 --> 1:11:54.410
and on the selection of knowledge which we want to pass

1:11:54.410 --> 1:11:57.030
because what are we going to teach actually.

1:11:57.030 --> 1:11:59.810
The teaching-- the innovative teaching is bound to be kind

1:11:59.810 --> 1:12:02.760
of literature which we consider stable.

1:12:02.760 --> 1:12:06.910
If we don't have ways to make sure that what we see is stable--

1:12:06.910 --> 1:12:10.810
is really stable, then, you know, it doesn't--

1:12:10.810 --> 1:12:13.710
that doesn't reflect on educational packages,

1:12:13.710 --> 1:12:17.900
which kind of elements are really needed today.

1:12:17.900 --> 1:12:21.470
So this is very stressful and it's more of a channel

1:12:21.470 --> 1:12:23.630
and I hope we'll see some light out of there

1:12:23.630 --> 1:12:26.740
but we are in it yet, still.   Yup?

1:12:26.740 --> 1:12:28.150
 

1:12:28.150 --> 1:12:34.710
>> Just the way thing I think really [inaudible] as an era of competing

1:12:34.710 --> 1:12:37.230
if you wish [inaudible] versus collaborative work.

1:12:37.230 --> 1:12:40.280
And collaborative work is really big in this country especially

1:12:40.280 --> 1:12:46.060
in humanities and in American universities, and so on.

1:12:46.060 --> 1:12:48.860
And they would say that of course this is just something

1:12:48.860 --> 1:12:50.690
over revolution against the filters--

1:12:50.690 --> 1:12:56.100
the addition filters that yeah, block the participation

1:12:56.100 --> 1:12:59.870
of many others that would like to get into whatever it is.

1:12:59.870 --> 1:13:02.190
And I have to [inaudible], first thing I have students mixed emotions

1:13:02.190 --> 1:13:05.560
about all of it because we've have done some collaborative work

1:13:05.560 --> 1:13:06.980
with people and it's just-- 

1:13:06.980 --> 1:13:09.820
it really has produced about the product or a full

1:13:09.820 --> 1:13:13.680
or a minute whatever would have any single person dealing with it.

1:13:13.680 --> 1:13:16.230
On the other hand, certainly appreciate--

1:13:16.230 --> 1:13:19.770
okay, a concern about chaos or concern

1:13:19.770 --> 1:13:23.370
about clinical standards of some sort.

1:13:23.370 --> 1:13:27.880
So I just think that what you're just described is this, you know,

1:13:27.880 --> 1:13:35.970
the-- this era that we're living in is an era of tagging the pole

1:13:35.970 --> 1:13:41.930
between the traditional single authors focus on things

1:13:41.930 --> 1:13:45.150
and the more-- the push for more collaborative work.

1:13:45.150 --> 1:13:47.960
And collaborative work can't have it's filters.

1:13:47.960 --> 1:13:49.780
It can really, you know--   >> Yeah.

1:13:49.780 --> 1:13:50.180
 

1:13:50.180 --> 1:13:53.500
>> -- that's why you have in every couple about the people around you.

1:13:53.500 --> 1:13:53.900
>> Yeah. 

1:13:53.900 --> 1:13:56.450
>> I mean, it's like as you said, the example MIT.

1:13:56.450 --> 1:14:00.200
Okay, now we're all together here and where each going to really go

1:14:00.200 --> 1:14:04.120
after something aggressively to criticize it and see if it's a whole

1:14:04.120 --> 1:14:07.350
and so, [inaudible] unless you say a comment.

1:14:07.350 --> 1:14:07.750
[ Overlapping Voice ] 

1:14:07.750 --> 1:14:10.200
>> Well this is a very important comment as a matter of fact

1:14:10.200 --> 1:14:13.160
because collaboration is the basic of all kinds of research

1:14:13.160 --> 1:14:15.980
and so we have-- thank you for helping me clarify.

1:14:15.980 --> 1:14:19.910
I consider that collaborative work even if they were in that, you know,

1:14:19.910 --> 1:14:21.900
situation, they were turning like enemies as they say,

1:14:21.900 --> 1:14:25.510
"I'll hit your theory but this has becomes our theory."

1:14:25.510 --> 1:14:30.240
As a consequent of comments, verification and so on,

1:14:30.240 --> 1:14:34.310
it was actually an intra internet in some way.

1:14:34.310 --> 1:14:39.450
You know, a group which was committed to make the most

1:14:39.450 --> 1:14:44.680
out of a certain theory or content so that, you know, all the question

1:14:44.680 --> 1:14:47.620
and answer-- the frequently asked question would be resolved

1:14:47.620 --> 1:14:52.420
within that collaborative action and when it goes out,

1:14:52.420 --> 1:14:56.150
we make sure we are there with something stable,

1:14:56.150 --> 1:15:00.480
other people can refer to as a piece of solid knowledge.

1:15:00.480 --> 1:15:03.260
So obviously, it would never be like just one author,

1:15:03.260 --> 1:15:07.560
they were all co-author but they would have different roles.

1:15:07.560 --> 1:15:10.790
Whereas, the kind of collaboration which I see now

1:15:10.790 --> 1:15:15.720
as not a collaboration is assembling names under, you know,

1:15:15.720 --> 1:15:19.440
in some way based on some poorly verified materials.

1:15:19.440 --> 1:15:21.370
So it's like, let's all stick together

1:15:21.370 --> 1:15:23.650
that way but it's not that kind.   Also because it goes on, you know,

1:15:23.650 --> 1:15:25.530
 

1:15:25.530 --> 1:15:28.470
co-author which don't know each other,

1:15:28.470 --> 1:15:35.050
they never really get together so it's scrambled pieces of research

1:15:35.050 --> 1:15:36.820
which in some way collide. 

1:15:36.820 --> 1:15:39.710
It's not collaboration, it's collision of elements

1:15:39.710 --> 1:15:41.960
which becomes a solid item, you know,

1:15:41.960 --> 1:15:44.450
and sometimes people don't even know each other, they haven't been able

1:15:44.450 --> 1:15:46.790
to exchange more views, it becomes all virtual.

1:15:46.790 --> 1:15:51.500
Again, it's you know, digital communication and it's never about,

1:15:51.500 --> 1:15:56.860
let's make sure it's verified enough.

1:15:56.860 --> 1:16:00.020
And so it's the opposite 

1:16:00.020 --> 1:16:03.510
of collaboration even it looks like such.

1:16:03.510 --> 1:16:05.780
And-- but the co-authorship--   the team is wonderful also

1:16:05.780 --> 1:16:07.610
 

1:16:07.610 --> 1:16:11.830
because when you clarify each other's thinking by working

1:16:11.830 --> 1:16:14.920
through the materials-- the virtual. 

1:16:14.920 --> 1:16:17.990
And they scattered, you see co-authors from institution

1:16:17.990 --> 1:16:23.840
which are thousands of miles apart and you wonder what is the point

1:16:23.840 --> 1:16:27.130
of collaboration there other than assembling piece

1:16:27.130 --> 1:16:28.910
of information which are already there?

1:16:28.910 --> 1:16:33.330
And you say, we are more than just one and then we add more power

1:16:33.330 --> 1:16:35.550
to our pieces of information.   But there is no such thing

1:16:35.550 --> 1:16:37.530
 

1:16:37.530 --> 1:16:41.520
as a cohesive product creating a real impact.

1:16:41.520 --> 1:16:46.490
>> I have a recent experience with that.

1:16:46.490 --> 1:16:50.220
I went to a lecture and I forgot what the subject was,

1:16:50.220 --> 1:16:52.550
the author was selling a book.   >> Yeah.

1:16:52.550 --> 1:16:53.050
 

1:16:53.050 --> 1:16:58.920
>> Hundreds of pages, 9 pages out of that book were hers and there were

1:16:58.920 --> 1:17:03.400
about 20-- there are 20 other people who were writing something,

1:17:03.400 --> 1:17:04.930
completely different fields. 

1:17:04.930 --> 1:17:08.030
But because of the technology that was available, they were able

1:17:08.030 --> 1:17:10.460
to assemble that knowledge. 

1:17:10.460 --> 1:17:16.160
And she's pushing the book that only is less than 85 percent of her work.

1:17:16.160 --> 1:17:17.620
>> Definitely.   Yeah. Okay.

1:17:17.620 --> 1:17:18.330
 

1:17:18.330 --> 1:17:20.080
>> There was no cohesion there.   >>Yeah, yeah.

1:17:20.080 --> 1:17:21.030
 

1:17:21.030 --> 1:17:23.510
>> You know I have that example. 

1:17:23.510 --> 1:17:27.070
>> Yeah and this is scary as in terms of, you know,

1:17:27.070 --> 1:17:29.290
the responsibility issue. 

1:17:29.290 --> 1:17:35.070
You know like not taking-- not being willing to take more responsibility

1:17:35.070 --> 1:17:40.520
for the outcome and in fields as such as science, you know,

1:17:40.520 --> 1:17:43.570
in some areas, this is really scary. 

1:17:43.570 --> 1:17:46.690
You know and it becomes confused of the feeling of being united

1:17:46.690 --> 1:17:49.920
and working together but working together means something different

1:17:49.920 --> 1:17:52.890
or maybe because I in our generation, you know,

1:17:52.890 --> 1:17:57.460
had this experience of what collaboration really means.

1:17:57.460 --> 1:18:02.030
And I think it's really and a huge amount of the opportunities

1:18:02.030 --> 1:18:07.830
that technologies have brought-- have influenced deeply, you know,

1:18:07.830 --> 1:18:09.640
the way people positioned themselves.

1:18:09.640 --> 1:18:13.430
Also, the quantity as being a criterion, you know about it,

1:18:13.430 --> 1:18:15.600
versus quality kind of thing. 

1:18:15.600 --> 1:18:17.740
You know so for instance in my teaching I always say,

1:18:17.740 --> 1:18:20.450
I'd like to have a distillery here, I want to make sure

1:18:20.450 --> 1:18:24.300
that whatever we have becomes distilled, you know, that you filter

1:18:24.300 --> 1:18:27.070
out and you get to the essence of it.

1:18:27.070 --> 1:18:31.270
Because sometime-- that's the only thing I can see as a criterion

1:18:31.270 --> 1:18:33.910
for knowledge to be passed to the next generation.

1:18:33.910 --> 1:18:38.790
Otherwise, we'd see a dissipation of materials and the message

1:18:38.790 --> 1:18:43.100
which institution such as this one is, it needs to be very clear.

1:18:43.100 --> 1:18:49.200
We want to be able to tell what needs to be condensed,

1:18:49.200 --> 1:18:55.110
distilled to filter out whatever package and how to package it

1:18:55.110 --> 1:18:56.870
for that specific reason. 

1:18:56.870 --> 1:18:59.240
That there is a lot today which will--

1:18:59.240 --> 1:19:03.720
by using physical work will fade away or will vaporize.

1:19:03.720 --> 1:19:06.310
There is a lot of info-- I'd like to use that word, you know [laughs].

1:19:06.310 --> 1:19:10.450
It would be vaporized because it doesn't have groundings there

1:19:10.450 --> 1:19:12.700
but it does make a lot of bubbling, you know.

1:19:12.700 --> 1:19:16.680
It sometimes prevents people from getting to the right spot

1:19:16.680 --> 1:19:20.890
and finding exactly what is needed because they are, you know,

1:19:20.890 --> 1:19:23.930
taking by this other elements floating.

1:19:23.930 --> 1:19:27.160
So if you were to consider a term, now it's navigating

1:19:27.160 --> 1:19:28.190
through digital information. 

1:19:28.190 --> 1:19:33.080
Today we are floating around digital information

1:19:33.080 --> 1:19:36.140
and information overload. 

1:19:36.140 --> 1:19:39.760
How can we still make a good decision in spite

1:19:39.760 --> 1:19:44.090
of information work load, you know, as we were to conclude some

1:19:44.090 --> 1:19:45.770
of this conversation which [inaudible].

1:19:45.770 --> 1:19:50.930
I mean, it is-- whatever is being down now, whatever it is very--

1:19:50.930 --> 1:19:58.080
you know, it is the result of a tremendous amount of extra work

1:19:58.080 --> 1:20:00.870
which previous generation had in hand to do.

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And next generation hopefully will not have to do.

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>> Alright, well any other thoughts, questions?

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Well I want to thank the audience that has stocked out with us.

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[ Laughter ]   Thank you very much.

1:20:12.880 --> 1:20:14.770
 

1:20:14.770 --> 1:20:18.120
It's been a unique presentation by a unique,

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very productive wonderful scholar who goes in a lots of directions.

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And today, she has pulled much of this together for us to enjoy

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and think about and as I said at the beginning,

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the center for the book is going to continue to pick out the part

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of Graziella's agenda that interest us and to work with her,

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to try to produce a summary pamphlet of some

1:20:42.750 --> 1:20:44.980
of these ideas you've heard today. 

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And we look forward to sharing that with you.

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And I don't know that either of us will be

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around in another 15 years, Graziella?

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[ Laughter ] 

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But maybe before then, we can put together some kind of a conclusion.

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But let's close with giving our thanks

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and acknowledgment to Graziella Tonfoni.

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Thank you.   [ Applause ]

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>> This has been a presentation of the Library of Congress.

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