>> From the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C. >> Betsy Peterson: Hello, everyone. My name is Betsy Peterson and I'm the Director of the American Folklife Center here at the Library of Congress and on behalf of all of the staff I want to welcome you here today. This is the latest presentation in our Benjamin Botkin Lecture Series, which allows us to highlight the very best scholarship in the fields of folklore, oral history, ethnomusicology, and cultural heritage and studies. It also allows us to enhance our collections here at the American Folklife Center. We tape record every lecture in the Series and it will its way up to our website where it will become available people around the world and for generations to come. It also enhances our acquisitions and collections. So with that said, please turn off your cell phones, if you have not already. Today I have great honor to introduce the award-winning author, photographer, and former Library of Congress Archie Green Fellow, Candacy Taylor who has come all the way from Los Angeles for this lecture today. Candacy's work has been featured in a variety of places, the New Yorker, the Los Angeles Times, USA Today, Mthe Wall Street Journal, San Francisco Chronicle, MMs. Magazine, and so many others. Her previous study, Counter Culture, The American Coffee Shop Waitress, Mresulted in a well-received book published by Cornell University Press and an exhibit as well which, among other honors, was touted by Southwest Airlines in their top ten list of things to see in the United States. Not bad. Candacy owns and directs Taylor Made Culture which is a company that produces multimedia projects examining American culture of all kinds and she currently lives in Los Angeles. And I should just add Taylor Made Culture is also a website and it's a great place to visit and I encourage you to do so. Today, the topic of Ms. Taylor's talk is "American Roots, Hairdressers and Beauty Shop Culture in America," which was actually the focus of her Archie Green Fellowship. And for this research, Candacy travelled over 20,000 miles throughout the United States interviewing hairstylists and clienteles, including members of the African-American, Appalachian, Cajun, Dominican, Gullah, Jamaican, Japanese, Orthodox Jewish, Lumbee Indian, Pakistani, and LGBT communities. We all may think sometimes that hair is a frivolous or individual expression of beauty and vanity, but it is far from that and so much more. And as Candacy will be talking about today, hairdressing traditions, styling practices, and the accompanying conversations and discourses that go with it in that intimate space of the salon are a lot more, and tell us a lot more, about who we are and reflect much about contemporary American belief systems regarding race, class, and cultural production. So, with all of that said, please let me welcome Candacy Taylor, and please give her a warm welcome. Candacy. [ Applause ] >> Candacy Taylor: Hello, and thank you so much for coming. This is a tremendous honor to be here. I'd love to thank Nancy Groce for really making this happen. And, Betsy, it was just such a beautiful introduction. I appreciate that. And the American Folklife Center for supporting this project with an Archie Green Fellowship. This grant was so critical. It really allowed me to complete the field research for the project and to archive this work at the Library of Congress. This is a multidisciplinary project and it combines ethnography, documentary photography, oral history. And I set out to untangle the story of Americans and their hair and explore the roll that hair plays in creating our cultural identity. Eventually, I would like to write a book and tour an exhibit and of like counterculture throughout the U.S. So, really, the story starts with me [laughter] when I was six years old. My earliest memories are in the 1970s getting my hair pressed every weekend, sitting at the kitchen table, and it was a little traumatic, you know, having like a 400-degree hot comb grazing my scalp, and thinking -- being fearful that I was going to get burn marks on my ears. And my mother would just say, "Sit still!" And it was very serious. And I remember feeling, you know, scared. But then soon after it was done I could swing my hair from side to side and I thought I was -- it was like that woman in the Breck commercial. I think that was popular at the time. And it was like magic, it was like magic. It would never do this in its natural state. This is my natural hair. And after watching my cousins and other black friends go through the same ordeal I got the message that we were different somehow and, you know, my mom raised us to believe that to try and be colorblind and believe that there was no difference. But it was undeniable. You know, my white and Latino friends just didn't worry about getting their hair wet, and they didn't have burn marks of their ears, and they didn't smell like Ultra Sheen Hair Grease. And I remember it was the very first time I felt different because of my race. So in my 30's I was getting my hair done at GiGi's Salon. I had been going there for about 10 years and one day I realized I had never seen anyone of a different race walk through the door other than black women. And her shop was in San Francisco, so this was surprising because San Francisco's such a racially -- one of the most diverse places in the world. And in every other area of my life I had different kinds of people around me, and I thought this is so strange that in this one space it's all black. And one day a white woman walked in and it was shocking. It was like, oh, my gosh. And she wanted to get her hair done. She just wanted a wash and set, which is very simple. And GiGi turned her away. And after the woman left she said, "I don't do white hair." And I thought -- I was stunned. I thought, oh, my god, you know; I felt uncomfortable being in a place that didn't serve white people. I thought, oh, my -- you know, am I part of some secret society that I didn't know about or...? It just felt very -- it was shocking to me that this happened. And in my heart I knew GiGi wasn't racist. So that's when I really started studying the salon. I would sit under the hairdryer and just watch and look at the interactions that were happening there. And I realized that GiGi in her way and in her mind was somehow protecting this environment, you know. It is a very intimate space and it's rooted in culture, ethnicity, religion, and ritual. And it didn't make it right that she turned her away, but I understood what was happening. I understood why. And it is human nature that we surround ourselves with people who look, think, and act like us. It's just what we do. So I couldn't help but wonder if there were other shops like this -- Latino salons, Pakistani, Japanese. So, as Betsy mentioned, I travelled over 20,000 miles throughout the U.S. documenting a variety of cultures; salons that predominantly serve -- and she listed them, so I'm not going to relist them again. But I also interviewed industry icons such as the Vidal Sassoon Family, John Paul DeJoria of Paul Mitchell, Tabatha Coffey from Tabatha Takes Over, the Bravo show, and hairdressers who styled Bob Marley, Eartha Kitt, Veronica Lake, Nancy Wilson, and Farrah Fawcett. So getting access into these places was difficult, especially those outside of my race. Only about one out of every eight salons allowed me to really walk in with camera equipment and photograph them. And in the end, you know, I couldn't blame them because, like I said, it's an intimate space. So it wasn't worth the risk of alienating their regular customers. So most of them just said "no"- you know, "we don't want you in here." And when I couldn't get into the places -- I'd read everything I could get my hands on, all the literature about hair and some about culture and identity. But I believed, you know -- it was a very challenging process because I almost abandoned the project twice in the seven years I've been doing it because I just couldn't get access. But I believed that, you know, there was insider information that these stylists had about what was happening and it was the key to capturing something new about the subject because there's a lot written about hair. So what I learned is that race matters, you know? And more specifically it's about hair texture. It continues to be a factor in the salon business. Second to skin color, hair is our most racially defining feature. Practically every ethnicity has developed a specialized product or procedure to change their hair texture, and as a result, beauty shop culture is a window into contemporary understandings about race, segregation, and integration. So here's an audio clip I'm going to play from Gail Bruno. She's been a hairdresser for over 50 years, and she talks about racial segregation in salon culture. >> Recording of Gail Bruno: Back when I was younger we could not work on any other type of hair. >> Candacy Taylor: I know. >> Recording of Gail Bruno: We were licensed differently. We could not do anybody but Caucasian. I don't know why. I think because of the processing, you know, like with straightening and all that. I think that is why we weren't licensed to really do that. And that's weird when you think about it because now that would never happen. >> Candacy Taylor: What year did you go to beauty school, approximately? >> Gail Bruno: '60 to '61. >> Candacy Taylor: And in the salons that you worked at, the two white ones - >> Gail Bruno: All white. Yeah, that's all. >> Candacy Taylor: Did anybody of color ever walk in the salon? >> Gail Bruno: Not that I can remember. That is so funny that you said that. That's so long ago, you know. You don't even think of that now. You know, like, there's so many different processes compared to what we do. I don't know. I don't think I could -- I would have to go back to school. I know I would. That's so funny how that's segregated. [end recording] >> Candacy Taylor: And, you know, I sympathize with hairdressers because they are expected to know how to do anyone's hair and our hair is so different, you know, especially when it comes to race. And although it's true that, you know, we share more similarities than differences among the races, anatomically our hair is not the same. So to learn just briefly about the anatomy of hair, one strand of hair has three layers. There's an inner medulla, a cortex, and an outer cuticle. And stylists don't like to assign race to different hair types. They don't like to say, oh, that's black hair or Asian hair, because within the races people can have different textured hair. But, generally, there are three dominant textures that are fund in African, Caucasian, and Asian hair. So here we see that the African hair is flat. It has more of almost a ribbon-like anatomy. And so think if you take a pair of scissors and you take the blade and you, you know, when you're doing gift-wrapping and it coils really tight, that's why African hair can curl so tightly because it's anatomically set up to do that. Whereas straight hair or Caucasian hair has -- its round, so it's almost like a rope. So if you took those scissors and tried to do the same thing with the rope, it wouldn't work so well. And if you think about Asian hair that has all those cuticle layers on it that makes it even straighter and the light reflects off those cuticle layers which makes it very shiny, it's very difficult for Asian hair, traditionally Asian hair, to get any curl in it. So I went to Ozuki Salon, which is a Japanese salon in D.C. here. And to get that soft wave pattern, that beachy look that seems so easy-breezy, is very difficult, what, in Asian hair. And I was there for about five hours watching this process. There were all these clamps and rollers and rubber bands and a chemical that breaks down the cortex because that cortex is so much thicker. Quite involved. And the owner of Ozuki says, you know, a regular salon wouldn't have these materials or the knowledge to do this. He travels to Japan several times a year to stock his salon with the necessary tools. Also at Ozuki they have traditional kimono dressing services. They serve green tea with a little Japanese cookie. It's very traditional. Another ethnic shop I visited was Bollywood Beauty Shop in Queens which is popular among Southeast Asian culture. They play Bollywood movies on television. They carry products for Indian hair, ceremonial bridal makeup services, henna services. Eyebrow threading is really popular all over the country now, but this is traditionally an Indian practice and they've offered this service for many, many decades. So here's an audio clip of Shahzad Hafeez and he talks about doing Jennifer Anniston's haircut on Indian hair. >> Recording of Shahzad Hafeex: A lot of the fashion among the Southeast Asian clientele comes from Bollywood. And I think Bollywood also is very, very influenced by Hollywood. So Jennifer Aniston's hair, it was a worldwide phenomenon. And everybody wanted Jennifer Aniston's hair, but how it would transform into their hair and their look. I think I've done Jennifer Aniston's version of her as long as I can remember. It was such a huge phenomenon the way the layering fell around the face and the shoulders. I did millions of versions of that hair, but an Indian version of that. >> Candacy Taylor: What changes would you have to implement to make that work on Indian hair? >> Shahzad Hafeex: Okay. I think Jennifer Aniston being a European or an American or whatever, that hair was created on that medium. Now Indian hair is very different from, let's say somebody like Jennifer Aniston's hair. As a hairstylist you got to bring that, transform that look with a medium which is different from what it was created on but somehow make it look -- maybe not like that, inspired by that, and you create - >> Candacy Taylor: So what's the biggest challenges that -- I'm assuming that Indian hair is heavier, has more - >> Shahzad Hafeex: Definitely heavier. It falls different. And somehow the cut has to work for the features also. Now Indian features are very different from other people. So it has to somehow complement that. [end recording] >> Candacy Taylor: Yeah. You know, the pressure to look like Jennifer Aniston as an Indian woman must be challenging, to say the least. But, you know, and I thought being a black woman, I thought, oh we have it harder and, you know, it -- because the hair thing is such a big issue. But no one really has it easy. I mean, pretty much its human nature to want what we don't have. So even for white women, the pressure to be blonde is a real issue and it comes at a great cost. So here's Steve [Davis], an award-winning colorist, talking about the money, time, and effort it takes to be blond. >> Recording of Steve Davis: My personal feeling I call blondes who are lifers, I call it "blondage," because it is a form of blond bondage. There's a number of things that have to fall in place to keep somebody blond because I will not personally keep somebody blond if they are not following all the steps, meaning if they make the decision to go blond and they have dark hair naturally, especially, you're going to incur a certain amount of dryness, damage. It's just part and parcel when you make that decision so there is, a-are you willing to keep up with the maintenance that it requires to keep this blond going so that you're not walking around for three months with black root blond hair because that does not reflect well on me if you're not going to maintain the color. So there is the financial implication, the time implication-that you need to come in every six weeks, either have a retouch and highlight or a retouch by itself to keep this going. There's also the home-care regimen that blonds cannot skimp on because if the hair's not kept in good condition that means the pallet that I'm using to put color on won't retain that color and the color will not look its best. Those are primarily, I think, the three or four things that, you know, when I had that initial discussion if you're not that one that's going to do this or if I at some point see that that person is not keeping up with this, I'm going to suggest strongly that we get to something a little moderate that fits their time and their pocketbook because it's the highest maintenance scenario in color, is being dark and wanting to be blond. [end recording] >> Candacy Taylor: Yeah. And hairdressing, you know, not only requires a great deal of skill, it is extremely labor intensive, you know. Stylists contort their hands into all kinds of awkward positions, they inhale toxic fumes, rolling, flat ironing, curling, teasing, blow drying, bending over the shampoo bowl, can injure their backs, hands, shoulders, and wrists. And beyond the physical labor the technical demands are pretty extensive. I mean, they must understand chemistry and even a regular haircut requires many steps. So here's Dougie Freeman talking about -- he once styled Farrah Fawcett's hair and he's talking about the steps of doing a haircut. >> Recording of Dougie Freeman: I think that a lot of young students are not really aware of how difficult it's going to be or how many skills they have to memorize. For instance, every haircut that I do has as many as 75 steps to it. When I teach these haircuts I teach them in steps. The student must memorize these steps. Not everyone can memorize the 75 steps. This is why it's easy for me to replicate the haircut when they come in the next month, because I know what I did, because I use certain indicators on the face to draw lines. In my consultation, which I do every time, we sit in the chair, we look in the mirror, and I say, "What are going to do today?" And at that point I listen to the client and I start gathering information in my little mind, design a haircut that's going to be flattering for her within the guidelines that she's giving me. This is a blueprint, just like I would design a house if she was asking me to build a house for her. What color would you like the house? What shape? How many porches? These are just the same types of things that an architect does. [end recording] >> Candacy Taylor: Yeah. And, you know, most students don't learn this level of haircutting in cosmetology school. But those who do get adequate training can really make a good living doing hair. And Forbes reports that it's a recession-proof business practically. Clients admit that they put aside their hair money just as they would a utility bill. It's just as critical. It's a nonnegotiable necessity. And it makes hairstyling one of the most lucrative jobs, especially those without a college degree. Madam C. J. Walker marketed and sold hair products in the early 1900s and became one of the wealthiest self-made women of any race during that time. And, you know, more than any other race- we're getting into it, the good hair debate, especially among black women, it's an ongoing struggle. And when Chris Rock's daughters asked him why they don't have quote/unquote "good hair," he set out to understand about this black hair dilemma. And many black women were upset that he exposed a lot of our private hair rituals, you know. But much of America was fascinated and it did help break down some barriers between whites and blacks and it did spark a new dialog about race. I felt it didn't go far enough in examining how culture in our sex with hair and identity. It didn't provide any context for black women's natural styling hair choices such as dreadlocks, afros, and braids. And African women have deep, deep roots and troubled history when it comes to hairstyling. During the 1400s before European slave ships arrived in Africa, hair was very important and they spent hours or even days on their hair. And when slaves were captured by Europeans their hair was cut off and they were given head wraps to prevent the spread of lice. And head wraps signified kind of an inferiority to the slave owners. But to the women who wore them, they became a source of personal identity and the style in which they wore them just differed ever so slightly and it differed according to the region they lived. And it gave these women a sense of individualism and pride, which must have been critical considering the circumstances that they were under. And stripped from the hairdressing tools that they used in Africa once their hair grew back, they had to reinvent a way to comb and style and condition their hair. And what they used was what was available on the plantation which was oftentimes pig's fat, kerosene, and cotton. Those were the most popular items. And one of the more fascinating interviews, if we bring it up to date, is the Bey Sisters. They specialize in traditional African hairstyling. And they were trained by the late master braider, Yvette Smalls. The Bey Sisters were also raised in the MOVE Organization, a separatist black organization that was bombed by the city of Philadelphia. Being a part of the MOVE really inspired and deeply influenced their relationship to their hair. And here's an audio clip of Folosade Bey talking about this. >> Recording of Folosade Bey: And lots of natural hair is actually a political statement. The MOVE, they wore locks, you know. We're actually from an Islamic origin. Normally we will wear our hair covered. My mom, she uncovered her hair and from then on she made sure that her children understood that natural hair is important and it is a statement. We went to rallies. We sang and chanted with our mentors, Sister Mama E, Sister Yvette Smalls. We would sing "Braid it, don't burn it." And we were a part of that. And even though I was young, I didn't fully understand, and now as I come into my older years I'm very proud of who I am and I'm very comfortable. The government, they did not agree with how the family spoke or how they dealt with living and how they dealt with cultural awareness. The government actually bombed their house with children and the whole family in it. They actually flew over the house and dropped bombs. So point with mentioning MOVE was that my mom decided, even though we were Muslim and she would wear her hair covered, she removed her covering because she wore locks and she wanted to show that locks is nothing negative. There's nothing dreadful about locks. It's a beautiful thing. It's something to embrace. And it enhances strength within some people. [end recording] >> Candacy Taylor: Yeah, that was incredible. I mean, that happened in 1985 so this wasn't the '60s or the Civil Rights, you know, Movement. And the struggle to wear traditional hairstyles continues today. Just a few weeks ago there was an article that came out about the Army banning braids, twists, and locks. They're using words such as "unkempt" and "matted," which is offensive and disturbing. They clearly don't understand that the challenges, you know, what black women go through to do their hair. And a lot of those hairstyles -- twists, locks, and braids -- are among the easiest and least time-consuming hairstyles. So there's still a lot of ignorance out there about black women and their hair. And these restrictions, in particular, will force black women to either cut off all their hair to the maximum two inch, you know, length, or they will have to chemically straighten it to wear it, quote/unquote, "neat." The societal pressure for women, black women, to process their hair is profound, and this was evident when Gabby Douglas was criticized for her hair just moments after winning the Gold Medal at the Olympics. And every major newspaper covered it, you know? And she was practically bullied into getting a Hollywood makeover. And the irony is, is that most of the critics were black women. So, you know, Anu Prestonia, she owns Khamit Kinks in Brooklyn. The salon specializes in natural hairstyling and she had some insight about this. >> Recording of Anu Prestonia: I didn't read any of those tweets, but I did post on my Facebook page about how horrible I think it is because there's a whole new generation of young women who are discovering their natural hair. They are rather militant about it because they feel like they've been tricked, you know. They came up with perms and being told that their hair wasn't good enough, it wasn't the right texture. And now they've discovered their new hair and they're extremists. And I think that they are being divisive about realizing that-pitting one sister against another based on her hair choices. That was the frame of reference I was coming from. But then I found out that even people who are into processed hair have problems with her hair because they felt it wasn't coiffed enough. It didn't look refined enough. And I thought how stupid can you be? Here is this woman on the world stage, breaking world records, and you're worried about her hair? You need a life. >> Candacy Taylor: Okay. What was it, you know? >> Anu Prestonia: I think that we still have very deep-rooted self-esteem problems as a community. And when we see someone on the world stage, we want them to be perfect, especially for white people. They represent us and they should have everything together. They can't have their nails not done perfectly or, you know, a hair out of place, or the makeup not right, you know. And it's because of our lack of self-esteem, I think, that comes from. And to me it has the opposite effect because now, to me, other people, other cultures, are looking us and saying, look how shallow you are. All you care about is what you have on, what you look like, what your nails look like, you know? No wonder you can't feed the children or get to school, you know, get your children educated properly because you're putting your focus and your money in the wrong area. [end recording] >> Candacy Taylor: Yeah, you know. And the pressure to straighten hair really isn't just about the freedom to do what you want. But black hair is fragile, and straightening and chemical straightening and heat processing can easily damage it. So here's Folosade [Bey] talking about fixing a client's hair that was damaged by straightening it. >> Recording of Folosade Bey : The client that I had, Ifama, the relaxer broke her hair off. She said, "I'm never get a relaxer again," and she's 14, so she's going through this transition pretty young. But she grew her hair out. But then she decided to press it and straighten it. Well, her hair did not agree with the heat either and so I decided that we're going to transition your hair. We are going to help to strengthen your hair back. I braided her hair and told her, "Let's not burn it anymore. Let's braid it. Let's heal it." Our concept within transitioning is we grow an inch and then we trim an inch so that as her new growth grows in, it's strengthening, and we're taking off the hair that is not so healthy, because what will happen is it will break off either way. Where that straight hair meets the new growth of the curly, it's weakened because there are two different textures there. So what I decided to do was braid her hair and we actually did weave in a little bit of added hair to do the two strands with it at the top. But she actually did have a little breakage in the middle. I braided it up and I covered it in a very creative way while we are strengthening and re-growing in her hair. It actually took me about four-and-a-half hours. [end recording] >> Candacy Taylor: And most hairstylists don't have the knowledge or particular skillset to do this. So when I asked her sister Nzinga [Bey], how do stylists learn these techniques, you know, what do we do? We have a problem. How do we fix it? And this is what she said: >> Recording of Nzinga Bay: To me, in my eyes, she does not understand what it is to actually wear her natural hair. And that's what we're here for, to take it to the next level because it was instilled in us from birth. I am a cosmetologist, a licensed cosmetologist in Pennsylvania. I can see one side and I can see the other side. But, and I say but because the cultural, the natural side, is something that I'm born with, it's nothing that someone, you know -- actually, I went to school to learn. I went to the school of master braiders. I did not learn about natural hair in school. You can't. I don't believe that you can. Again, we're stating, it's a tradition. You cannot learn this in school. [end recording] >> Candacy Taylor: Yeah, you know, which makes it interesting. Like I said, because we have a problem, you know. More women of color are embracing their natural hair texture so, you know, how many of the Bey sisters do we have, you know, doing this? So our society is changing, too, you know. One in seven marriages is interracial. The rate of people adopting children of different races continues to rise. It's not only changing how we look, think, act, and see each other. You know, it's literally changing our hair texture. A front page article in the Los Angeles Times said that, you know, stylists are being nudged out of their comfort zone because more people are coming in to the shop with different hair texture, and they're not quite sure how to handle it. Even when you go into multi-cultural salons in San Francisco -- this is Miss Mia getting her hair done. She was fabulous. She's half African and half Brazilian. And this shop is located in Noe Valley which is an upper middle class, mostly white neighborhood, and there are a lot of women, a lot of white women there who have kids of different races. And they can go to Hair Play because there's somebody -- there's a Latino person there doing hair, there's somebody who's doing African hairstyling. It's really, you know, they're really trying to serve their community. Mia pictured here is not adopted. Her parents, like I said, are African and Brazilian. But this is Dougie Freeman talking about the changes he sees, you know, in the salons. >> Recording of Dougie Freeman: I have to say that the client is getting curlier and curlier as the years have gone on because it's all about Mother Africa and it's all about intermarriage, and it's all about curly hair is getting introduced to our culture, which is just an observation. Certainly in the Boston area you see a lot of blondes just because of the people that immigrated here and so on and so forth. In New York you see less blondes; you see more brunettes. I don't really know why, but where I sit in the business-having been doing this for 40 years- I have to say that I'm seeing more curl in the clients' hair. I still find that African American clients seem to gravitate toward African American salons, which I think it's just sort of the way it is. And I make all my money straightening hair and bleaching hair and Anglicizing people. The first question I ask people with curly hair is, "Do you embrace your curly hair?" And then we go from there. If people don't embrace their curly hair, they have options. They can have straight hair - >> Candacy Taylor: What percentage would you say they don't embrace? >> Dougie Freeman: Lately I would say it's like 50/50. Half the world wants lighter skin, and there are products that are designed for lightening and brightening. In fact, the trend now in skin care -- if you're not into tanning, is enlightenment and brightening. The same thing with hair. If you want curly, then you have products. We have so many products now. And I carry three different lines that are specifically designed for curly hair. So, as far as the client is concerned, you have options. You can control the way you look. And I believe that our hair is really our most important accessory and I think that it can certainly make or break you. [end recording] >> Candacy Taylor: And you know, I interviewed a Lumbee Indian mother and daughter team, which was fascinating because the mother grew up with curly hair, and that's unusual. Most people think Indian, Native American hair is going to be straight. And she was very deeply, deeply ashamed because her family, they had straight hair and she was the only one with this curly hair and she straightened it as a child in North Carolina. And this pictured here is her daughter, you know, who fully embraces her curls and is very excited about it. But, you know, even during that time they did the notorious pencil test which I don't know if you've heard of. But it was a practice, especially in Native American culture in the South where -- it came from the South. It originated in South Africa. But in the American South they would put a pencil at the base of the scalp and if it got stuck and didn't move it meant that you had African ancestry, and then you were treated as such. And it was, you know, it was very serious since these were the conditions that, you know, her mother had experienced and, you know, today her daughter is kind of more free to wear her hair naturally. And you know, Dougie mentioned that he sees that, you know, black women still will gravitate towards black salons. And, in addition to the cultural comforts, you know, the reason for not going to the white hair stylists, especially for black women, can be really serious. I mean, it can cause hair loss and burning and damage, irreparable damage. And this is why salons are still one of the most racially segregated businesses in America. It's difficult for black women to trust white people to do their hair. And even Oprah said on national television, "I will not go to a white hairdresser." But I did meet a Sicilian woman, Rina Monarca, who has a primarily black clientele, and Sicilians have hair as curly as Africans. And so she is familiar with this hair texture and here's an audio clip of Rina talking about how she convinced black women that she could do their hair. >> Recoding of Rina Monarca: Twyla was one of my first black clients who just happened to walk by. And, you know, she's doing one of those looking past me thing. And I said, "Can I help you?" And she said, "I'm looking for color," you know. And she's looking past me and I'm like I can do your hair. And she goes, "Well, I don't think so." And I said, "No, really. I can do your hair. I can cut it, I can blow dry it. I'll just blow dry it. If you don't like it you don't even have to pay me." And she was very upbeat, big, big smile, a wonderful woman. And she like, "Okay. I'll come back tomorrow." And she did. She came back the next day. So I cut it, I blew it dry. And upstairs was Aetna and all those offices and, you know, she's up there and she walks in and all her girlfriends went, "What'd you do?" Because it was a drastic change, you know? With shaking her head and she's like, "Look at this." And she sent me all her friends. Then after her another woman who was beautiful, who eventually married a politician, and she was like the woman to go to. You know, always the right hair, the right, you know, dress, and this and that. She went to a party and that's who really sent me a ton of people because everybody wanted to be like Lynn. And she shook her head and her hair moved and everybody was like, "Oh, my god. Where did you go?" And so she gave people my name and number and that's how it all began and, you know, people would come in and go, "I'm looking for Rina." And I'd say, "I'm Rina." And one woman goes, "Oh, no. I'm going to kill her." And I said, "Don't worry." And she goes, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry. But she didn't tell me you were white." And I said, "It's okay. I can still do your hair." [end recording] >> Candacy Taylor: You know. And it's funny. I mean, another trend is, you know, the opposite effect. There are so many people of different races who are wearing ethnic hairstyles and they're attempting to satisfy that demand. For example, a person with straight hair who might want to wear locks, you know? That's a whole process. And they could go to Twisted Salon in New Orleans where they specialize in transforming hair into dreadlocks. They have developed a contraption that -- it was really impressive. It was like a vacuum cleaner with a steamer nozzle attached to it from the floor. And you can see the nozzle there where -- she puts all this product in the hair and then backcombs it, you know, in these strands, and then tries to steam it into a shape for it to train the hair to grow into locks. It is quite a process! Another surprising multicultural salon I found was Shuly Wigs which was an Orthodox Jewish wig shop in Brooklyn. And they busted out of the box of religion and created a hugely successful business that supplies wigs for women of all races and religions. I thought I'd be walking into the opposite situation and, no, she found especially black women in the wig market has just blown up and she's also tapping that market. So, in conclusion, you know, travelling the U.S. and talking to people about hair has been an incredible experience. It seems like our quest, though, to be politically correct and to get along quote/unquote- I think we've boxed ourselves into a corner. Many people are afraid to speak their minds about what's really -- what they're really thinking because they're afraid they're going to be labeled as being racist. And, you know, during the interviews I encouraged people to just move away from those carefully crafted conversations and those platitudes and pleasantries. You know, I asked them to speak honestly about what they really thought about culture and identity. And focusing on something as seemingly innocent as hair really allowed them to do that and disarm their fears about discussing race. And, you know, for example, I interviewed an older Cajun woman in the middle of rural Louisiana, in the middle of nowhere, and at the end of the conversation, towards the end of the day, she said, "You know, can I touch your hair?" And she was really nervous. I could tell. And even though we'd spent the day together, all of a sudden she got kind of nervous. And I said, you know, you know, that's fine. And she felt it and she thought, oh, wow, it's really soft. She was like "I always wanted to know what black hair felt like." And "But I was afraid to ask. I didn't want to offend anybody." And I wasn't offended. I felt like, you know, at that point I had really done my job because I was honored that she felt comfortable enough to ask me. And I think that that's really what we need to be doing as a culture, is to stop shaming and stop making people feel bad for being curious, to open up that conversation and the dialog about race, and to offer the safe, non-judgmental place to talk about these things. And if we can start with hair, then it leads to the other real issues, the other deeper, seemingly more important issues. So I thank you so much for your attention today. The floor is open for questions. I hope we can have a discussion now, just briefly, about this. And if you didn't get a bookmark, please pick one up. All of my information is on there and I'd love to continue the discussion online. Thank you for your time. [ Applause ] >> Female audience member: I think it's really interesting how when somebody starts a chemo or they're told that they're going to start chemo, that the first thing they think about is, I'm going to lose my hair. You know, hair is so important to identity, whether we're happy with it or we're not. But all of a sudden when we're going to lose it, we really want to - >> Candacy Taylor: It's a big issue. And, Gail, the first audio clip, the blonde woman talking about segregation, mentioned that. She's had -- so many of her clients have gone through that. And she calls it "chemo curl," because when it comes back it comes back a different texture. >> Female audience member: Yeah. It's beautiful. My mother's hair [inaudible]. >> Candacy Taylor: Wow. Yeah, it's a very serious -- thank you for handing those out. It's very serious. Go ahead. You're the one. >> Male audience member: Are you continuing your research into hair, because I've noticed a lot of African American women now are getting blonde hair. And I'm wondering if you've interviewed anybody who's doing that. >> Candacy Taylor: Yes. You know, a lot of times those are wigs. They're not actually processing their hair because it is usually so damaging and you can tell a lot of times if somebody is going blond and3e with a natural black, especially with the compromised fragility of black hair. Dealing with that kind of processing is pretty intense. But, yeah, I definitely see a lot of it on the road. But a lot of times I look at it and then say, oh, it's a wig. It's not real. Go ahead, Diana. >> Diana N'Diaye: First of all, this was spectacular, the [inaudible] >> Candacy Taylor: Oh, thank you. >> Diana Diana N'Diaye: So I think it really is. And it's interesting. I just heard from someone about the presentation where there was one who was bald, by choice, and she said, "Well, nobody ever talks about the bald women and the choice about not to have hair." And I'm wondering -- well, you mentioned already chemo. But are there stylistic -- folks who specialize in really -- they're very, very little hair -- that you've interviewed them? >> Candacy Taylor: Yeah, there is a salon in Chelsey, New York, actually. A black man, Patrick Wellington, who talked about cutting short hair; and it's, again, quite complicated. I mean, he probably had 75 steps like Dougie. And there's definitely a call for women who are -- you know, I mean Sinead O'Connor. I mean, there's been political, you know, reasons why people shave their heads. People were shamed into, you know, during the war in Germany, and they were, you know, it was an act of aggression to wear bald heads. So there's all these different methods of empowerment or all these reasons why people are shaving their head. But I was surprised watching Patrick -- all the time it took for him to do the short hair. And he specializes in that. So, definitely, there's a call for that. Thanks for the question. Crystal, you raised your hand early on. Did you - >> Crystal: Well, I really like this discussion about comfort levels because I went to beauty school [inaudible] school. And I was the only person in the school who was white and could do black hair. And nobody black wanted anybody white to cut their hair. And nobody was offended by it. I mean, the idea was that the black students knew. Oh, hell no. [ Laughter ] And only because they were white and only because they were ignorant of black hair. >> Candacy Taylor: Right. >> Crystal: And the white students were like, "I don't know what the hell I'm getting into." And they were afraid. So there was just kind of ignorance and fear. And you might remember at one point you asked me about getting your hair done and you were talking about [inaudible]. >> Candacy Taylor: I don't remember. >> Crystal: And I said, "Why on earth would you ever let anyone who wasn't black cut your hair?" [laughter]. Now, maybe I would feel less likely to do that now after your work. But personally I just felt that I knew so many people who were ignorant, so many white hair dressers in school who just were afraid to even be involved. You didn't have to learn it. It was a little teeny segment like combing hair or doing nails, that I just felt like I would be -- personally, if I were black, I would never let someone white do my hair. And when I worked on my own project I learned about the rise of the salon. It was just since the early 20th century, that people let other people do their hair at all. >> Candacy Taylor: Wow. >> Crystal: So this is some of it. So I think this is the [inaudible]. >> Candacy Taylor: Thanks. That's great. >> Female audience member: The question is about seeing more of a black, including blond, weave. In essence, there are black cultures that come naturally to blond hair. >> Candacy Taylor: True, true. >> Female audience member: did [inaudible]. I think there's sort of an [inaudible] of like [inaudible]. >> Male audience member: Sounds like it. >> Female audience member: Where were the -The Solomon Islands? The Solomon Islands. [ Inaudible Speaker ] >> Candacy Taylor: Wow. That's fascinating. >> Female audience member: On here for black people to go in from -- is kinky as -- the pencil tested to a silky as what we would say as natural black people are likely to have. And so it's a lot of ignorance that we know that those possibilities are. And because those of us who we consider black, we've been mixed with other cultures, too. >> Candacy Taylor: Sure. >> Female audience member: From -- as you checked someone's DNA and find that out. So that it's really very telling, at least for me, to find women who will -- particularly if another of another black woman who will tell [inaudible] you should trick in here and see. They have no knowledge. I mean it's like they're being very ignorant of themselves and what the possibilities for black women to have [inaudible]. >> Candacy Taylor: Absolutely. Absolutely. Rae, you had your hand up. >> Rae: Actually you had a section there about wigs. >> Candacy Taylor: Uh-huh. >> Rae: Will you elaborate a little more about where this hair is coming from [inaudible]. >> Candacy Taylor: In the Orthodox Jewish shop or just in general? >> Rae: When it comes in regards to what countries are involved? [inaudible]. >> Candacy Taylor: You know, it's changing. I mean, obviously, you know, India was a huge place for this. [ Inaudible Speaker ] >> Candacy Taylor: Thank you. [ Inaudible Speaker ] >> Candacy Taylor: India was a major place. I mean, the Korean market, the Asian market for hair is also another issue. Its-- Indian remy hair was, you know -- it was featured in, actually, in Good Hair, the film, where for religious reasons so many Indian women and girls were shaving their head for their testament to God. But then on the other side there was a huge black market where they were taking all this hair and selling it for millions of dollars and it's a huge market. But they're finding, even within the Orthodox Jewish salon, at Shuly Wigs, you know, she's got hair from South America; she's got hair from -- actually, the preferred hair in her shop is Russian. So even though there's, you know, -- a lot of the media attention has been on Indian remy and on, you know, Asian hair. But really it's global; it really is global. All right, go ahead. >> Female audience member: Most of the people that sell wigs are Korean. >> Candacy Taylor: Well, that's the market who's actually distributing a lot of hair products for black culture and that's the shameful thing with, you know, a history like Madam C. J. Walker, who started her business and was, you know, empowered by that in so many ways at that time. And then, today, here, you know, it's -- I am not going to guess on the percentage. But it's a small percent -- I mean, it's maybe 10%, if that, of the market might be controlled by blacks and the rest of it, the majority is a Korean market. I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> Female audience member: No, it's just a hair, a piece of the hair trivia: Jennifer Aniston, who.... [inaudible]. Her hair is actually brown and wavy. It's said that she has to go through a lot of this effort to get that [inaudible]. >> Candacy Taylor: Sure. >> Candacy Taylor: Betsy? >> Betsy Peterson: You know, I'm real curious in your interviews did you talk to hair dressers or did they talk about the rise of unisex salons and working with men, and men coming in? Because in my course of field work for over many decades, some of the most uncomfortable places I've been in are barber shops. It was just so uncomfortable [laughter] to be in there. And I'm just wondering if they talked about men coming into beauty shops? >> Candacy Taylor: You know, I actually interviewed a female barber in Georgetown, Massachusetts, a small town. And I -- you know, a lot of the questions were about well, how did you convince men that, you know, you could do their hair? She's been a female barber for 25 years. And it's very complicated. Gender is a big issue in salon culture, huge. I mean, these were spaces that were generally segregated or, you know, definitely by the gender. And for so many -- barbers in the '60s would talk about, you know, how growing out hair and the hippie movement really changed, it really shifted their need. So there were more people coming in with longer hair. So then they thought, "Well, maybe I could do women's hair"- because they were forced to deal with this, the longer hair styles. But even the ones who tried to take on this new population, socially it just didn't work in the space. And it felt very uncomfortable and people have been, you know, dividing the lines. But now, today, there's a lot of these unisex kind of hipster barbershops that serve both men and women. And so that's been an interesting thing. But that's usually more the youth market and maybe they're, you know, more enlightened and, you know, maybe as we grow as a culture they'll let down some of those barriers. But, you know, it's an intimate space and people like to talk about what they want to talk about and women, especially, it's very protected and it's very comfortable. So it's definitely a challenge, yeah. Thanks for the question. That was a good one. >> Nancy Groce: Maybe a few more questions? >> Candacy Taylor: Okay. I'll get to you next. I'm sorry. >> Female audience member: So I'll be quick. In the last clip you showed how you weren't offended when the stylist asked if she could touch your hair. Would you have been offended if she had done this prior to the documentary if she asked you that same question? >> Candacy Taylor: No, no. I understand why some people are, you know. People don't like to be touched, so I understand, you know, the people who are offended by that. But I never was. I always felt like people could ask me anything and if there was something that was, you know, that seemed offensive to me, I would hope -- especially touching my hair. That never really bothered me unless they were going to mess it up. I was more concerned about them messing it up than, you know, than touching it out of curiosity. So, no, I wouldn't have -- you've been so patient. >> Female audience member: I kind of have a question that relates to that -- but I was [inaudible] that I actually go to a male barber and I [inaudible] male barbers and I have sent other women with short hair who said to me women barbers just can't do -- so I think it was interesting you brought up the unisex. So there's a female barber in my barbershop. >> Candacy Taylor: Oh, good. >> Female audience member: But I close my eyes. >> Candacy Taylor: Until you're done? [ Laughter ] >> But before I cut my hair, I had a big huge afro and people used to ask to touch my hair and sometimes not ask to touch my hair and I didn't -- I wasn't offended that way. I was worried that they might [inaudible] but I'm wondering did you encounter -- is that something, and I don't know, maybe with the rise of natural hair, it's so diverse and can be so interesting sometimes. Did other people mention that to you in your research? Did they say, you know, well, sometimes women -- I just feel a hand on my hair because literally as they were asking [inaudible]. And I was just mad they were asking and I already know [laughter]. >> Candacy Taylor: Yeah. >> Female audience member: Did you come across that? Because that's common [Inaudible]... It could be in conversations with women that I had, so. >> Candacy Taylor: Yeah. A little bit. Not too much because I spoke mostly to the hairdressers, people doing hair. But, you know, I think it's always polite to ask first and then get the answer before you touch anybody, anywhere, you know? I mean, so, I think that kind of goes without saying that you should ask. >> Female audience member: I want to follow up on that because I had a very close friend who worked for an airline who had hair like yours. And she was constantly telling me about people touching her head. >> Candacy Taylor: Yeah. >> Female audience member And she just sat here and said to me someone on the subway wanted to touch her hair [laughter]. I never had anyone ask me - [ Laughter ] -- are you even white in this room - [ Laughter ] -- experience [laughter]? You know - [ Inaudible Speaker ] >> Female audience member Also I wanted to point out that when she worked for Delta, the rules for hair were set basically for white women. >> Candacy Taylor: Right. >> Female audience member Her hair being like that was against regulations. >> Candacy Taylor: Exactly. >> Female audience member: And you're saying, essentially opposite with the military where, if a black woman cut her hair that way that would be perfectly fine. But if she worked for an airline it wouldn't be. How insane is that? And you're not taking into account who's working for the airline. >> Candacy Taylor: Uh-huh. >> Female audience member: And what you're putting them through. Maybe could get out of the military if you want to go work for Delta Airlines. I mean - [ Inaudible Speaker ] >> Female audience member: Their whole hair has got to change [inaudible]. >> Candacy Taylor: That's crazy. Okay. More. >> Female audience member: Right. I just had a quick follow-up to that. It was funny that you mentioned that because I had a lot of friends in high school who would work for like Abercrombie and Fitch and clothing stores like that. And they would say -- they'd talk about how they had very strict regulations for how they grew out their hair. It had to be a beach feel, beach waves and things like that. Well, I go to the beach. I'm not going to try to straighten my hair. I'm going to wash it. I'm going to curl it. And I'm going to go. I'd like it to be a little bigger and now you're telling me I have to do all of these other things to straighten -Well, first of all, I never worked there. I never liked the clothing store and [inaudible], like I [inaudible] there. But my friends did and it just seems so amazing to me, like even something as simple as it has to be beach attire, beach store makes sense. But even then it's more like you still might straight and wavy whereas beach hair needs very different things to different people. >> Candacy Taylor: Yeah. People think it's an accessory that you can just put on and when it's growing out of your head it's a different story, ultimately. So I think she said only two more are left for like five but - >> Nancy Groce: Do you think -- are there more questions? >> Candacy Taylor: I think - >> Nancy Groce: I think we [inaudible]. >> Candacy Taylor: Oh. >> Nancy Gorce: I think we can take a few more, if you don't mind. >> Candacy Taylor: Okay. >> Female audience member: I just wanted to piggyback on what you said about people touching your hair. I get that all the time. >> Candacy Taylor: Do you? >> Female audience member: Yes. And I do find it offensive because I'm like it's my hair, you know? It's all [inaudible] other people who just -- okay, can I touch your hair? I mean - >> Candacy Taylor: Yeah. >> Female audience member: -- it's kind of like animalistic a little. Well, yeah. Like its so fascinating and all that. >> Candacy Taylor: Right. >> Female audience member: It's my hair. Because I have natural but I'll wear my hair in different ways. >> Candacy Taylor: Mm-hmm. >> Female audience member: People who are just so curious. You know, like it's my hair. >> Candacy Taylor: Mm-hmm. >> Female audience member: I don't understand. >> Candacy Taylor: Yeah. I mean, I think there's a, you know, a fetishization process of people being, you know, this exotic kind of -- whatever is different and they want to -- and I understand why people get nervous or they don't like that. But I think it's still on some level possibly a missed opportunity to have a deeper discussion and just say, why do you want to touch my hair? You don't have to let them touch you. But just say, you know, what about that? And maybe see where that conversation leads. >> Female audience member: So I had a comment related to the [inaudible]. Obviously a lot of people want to touch my hair. >> Candacy Taylor: Uh-huh [laughter]. >> Female audience member: But I've had an afro like 18 years. >> Candacy Taylor: Wow. >> Female audience member: For all my [inaudible]. But the point that I realized, and it's probably my personal growth also that I actually get offended if you want to touch my hair. And I used to get angry about it. But then I realized no, they're curious, and this is an opportunity to bridge a gap, to also educate. So, more so than touching my hair. And you pointed -- this was one of your last points, so I want to applaud you on that -- is how did you get your hair like that? That's a good question to ask. Oh, it must take hours. And it's because they think that this is a temporary thing. And I say, no, actually it's very easy and it's been 18 years. And you could see the, like the, wheels trying to turn in their head, like what is she talking about? >> Candacy Taylor: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. >> Female audience member: So when you start to explain what dreadlocks are and, you know, in a five-minute kind of elevator speech, about what the dreadlocks are, and so it's bridging a gap. It's educating people about this thing that are dreadlocks that they had no idea about before. So I think there's a opportunity - >> Candacy Taylor: Exactly. >> Female audience member: for this education piece. >> Candacy Taylor: Yeah. That's a great - >> Female audience member: Like I wanted to ask you, what are you doing next? Because this is such a great jumping off point for going in a lot of places. So let me know what your, you know, what your.... >> Candacy Taylor: Oh, thank you. You know, like I said, I would like to have this published as a book and as a exhibit that tours. But I also have other projects and one is, in particular, is female bullfighters and bull riders - >> Female audience member: Oh my [inaudible]. >> Candacy Taylor: -- and bullfighting along border towns in this country. There's a bloodless bullfight that's becoming appropriated for American consumption. I'm very curious about that in terms of female identity and power, and the rise in Latin American culture of women, actually, gaining some kind of foothold in the industry of bullfighting, which they seem to be more successful than women bull riders in America. So, really, dealing with the gender issues on that. It's a project I'm -- we'll see. Yeah. Thanks for asking. >> [ Inaudible Speaker ] Okay. Oh, sorry. >> Female audience member: I had to -- I [laughter] so you [inaudible] to inspire me because I started going silver in my 20s and people always felt that not only did they want to touch my hair they wanted to tell me what color my hair should be - >> Candacy Taylor: Oh, yeah. >> Female audience member: -- because I was kind of -- said, well, you're too young to have gray hair. It's like, you know, "my hair is silver!" >> Candacy Taylor: Uh-huh. [ Laughter ] It's beautiful. >> -- and it's like [inaudible]. >> Candacy Taylor: Oh, it's beautiful. >> Female audience member: I'm Frank [inaudible] so it's [inaudible] -- >> Candacy Taylor: Oh, my gosh. Oh, we've had an email correspondence for years and I never knew what you looked -- oh, that Frank [inaudible], thank you for coming. Oh, wonderful. [ Inaudible Speaker ] Thank you. That's amazing. >> Female audience member: I apologize. I know I came in a little late so maybe you already mentioned this, but are you familiar with the Urban Bush Women's Project down here in Brooklyn and the whole fabulous theater piece that they did around gathering narratives around hair? >> Candacy Taylor: A little bit. Not really familiar but I did speak with somebody. There was something going on a couple of weeks ago and we really started talking a little bit about that. But is there something in particular about it that -- - ? >> Female audience member: Well, no. What I loved about it was, you know, gathering like all of these narratives about hair - >> Candacy Taylor: Yeah. >> Female audience member: -- from you, from, you know, being a little girl and remembering hair being like that, all the way up to kind of, you know, going natural and then taking dance and theater and turning it into a production that actually gets performed around the country in a really different context -- >> Candacy Taylor: Yeah. >> Female audience member: -- for exactly the same purposes of sort of educating people about all of these issues that you're talking about and we're just -- I just wondered if you had -- it would be a great kind of collaborative - >> Candacy Taylor: Yeah, we haven't collaborated. I don't know the people personally involved. But I did like that it was based on the storytelling - >> Yeah. >> Candacy Taylor: -- element. That was really an interesting way to deal with the subject, so, yeah. Thanks for mentioning it. >> Female audience member: Thanks. >> Candacy Taylor: Okay. Thank you for coming [applause]. >> This has been a presentation of the Library of Congress. Visit us at loc.gov.