WEBVTT

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>> From the Library of
Congress in Washington D.C.

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>> Hello. I'm Gail
Shirazi of the Israel

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and Judaica section
here at the library.

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Welcome to today's
program, a presentation

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by Professor Gabriel Weimann.

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Terrorism in Cyberspace, the
Dark Future, question mark.

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Cosponsored by the
Science, Technology

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and Business Division
here at the library,

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the Hebrew Language Table here
at the Library, in cooperation

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with The Woodrow Wilson
International Center for Scholars.

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I would like to thank the
Wilson Center, Lawrence Marcus

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and the staff of the Sci
Tech and Business Division,

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our Public Affairs Office and
Galina Teverovsky of the IJ section

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for all their support and help.

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And I would also personally
and professionally

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like to thank Gabi Weimann.

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Before I introduce a speaker I would
like just to take a few minutes

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to announce our next program
that's in the planning.

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The screening of the
award-winning films Zamani

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about a ten year old
girl, Ethiopian girl

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who survives her life-threatening
condition because of the help

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of an American doctor that was sent

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by the Joint Distribution
Committee to Ethiopia.

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That'll be August 12th
at 12:00 at the theater.

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Professor Weimann is a full
professor of communications

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at the University of
Haifa in Israel.

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This is Gabi's third
lecture at the library.

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His previous lectures have
been webcast and are accessible

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through the LC web homepage.

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His research includes, his
research interests include the study

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of media effects, political
campaigns, new media technologies

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and their social impact,
persuasion and influence, media,

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public opinion, modern
terrorism and the mass media.

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He's published extensively
in all these areas.

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His new book Terrorism in Cyberspace
the Next Generation was just

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published by the Woodrow
Wilson Center Press

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and Columbia University
Press, and we have copies

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for sale outside the door.

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He's received numerous grants,

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awards from international
foundations,

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was a visiting professor at several
universities and institutions,

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including the University
of Pennsylvania, Stanford.

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He was at the Wilson Center,
USIP, there's just too much

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to give him a real good, give you a
real good description of his work.

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So I advise you to go to
Google and search for yourself.

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And this event couldn't have
happened at a better time,

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given the situation

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with cyberterrorism just
these past couple weeks.

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Before we start, I'd like you
to turn off your phones please,

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and I want to tell you
we're being webcast.

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So if anybody does not
want to be possibly filmed,

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please don't ask a question.

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That's the place where
they'll zoom in on you.

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Now I'd like to turn
the floor over to Gabi.

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Thank you all for coming.

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>> Hi. Thank you.

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It's nice to be again here,

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and I ask myself why
actually am I again here.

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And so often, third time.

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Well the answer is simple.

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For the, in the last 18 years,
I've been studying terrorists.

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They are not nice people,
especially those that I deal with.

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They are ruthless,
aggressive, violent,

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but I manage to deal with it.

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But there is no way I could
say no to Gail Shirazi.

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I can deal with terrorists.

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I can't say no to Gail Shirazi.

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So this is why I'm here.

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Before we start, there will be
time for questions and answers.

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By the way, there are seats
here, these two that I see

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for people who are standing.

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There will be, it will
be about 40 minutes.

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It won't be a lecture.

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It will be a presentation.

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It will be like show and tell.

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I will take you into the
world of terrorism online.

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I will not promote my book, but
I will highlight at least some

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of the main findings
presented in the book.

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So let's start actually with
speaking about last week,

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about the relevancy of my study.

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And let's start with OPM.

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I bet you heard about it
that OPM was breached.

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Four million US government employees
is I guess, including Library

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of Congress employees, were
targeted by cyber breach.

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Chinese hackers, maybe
other hackers.

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So are we really protected
against cyberterrorism?

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As this lecture will later reveal,

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when I wrote my last book ten
years ago, nine years ago,

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terrorism on the internet, there
was a chapter about cyberterrorism.

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And I wrote there in 2006 that
cyberterrorism is like a cloud.

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The cloud somewhere on the horizon.

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It may come here.

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But it's still far.

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We don't know when it will come.

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Now let me tell you
the dark cloud is here.

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E Street, OPM.

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Another event last week,
all related to my lecture,

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all related to my presentation
today.

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A Boston man who planned to behead
Boston police officers was stopped

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and killed by police last Tuesday.

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This is the guy.

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He was related to ISIS.

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But he never went to ISIS,
was never recruited to ISIS.

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He never attended any
camp or any mosque.

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All was done online.

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His radicalization.

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His seduction, recruitment,
activation,

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and even launching,
was all done online.

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And if you go and check his
record the way we did online,

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you'll find postings like
that in his Facebook.

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A coffin, open coffin, with
the quote from the Quran,

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everyone shall taste the death.

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So let me just for a second take
you to a video, a very short video.

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Again, relative to this event
and to my lecture today.

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How do we get it smaller?

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Okay. Sound.

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We have sound?

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>> Federal investigators
saying that they believe

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that the two Boston terrorist
suspects were likely radicalized

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online by ISIS, a move
becoming a trend.

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And we're continuing to see
this in other plots as well.

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And during a hearing yesterday,
counterterrorism officials warned

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that the use of social media
by ISIS is unprecedented.

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>> ISIL has been able to
quickly reach a global audience

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and encourage acts of violence
inspiring US citizens to travel

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to Syria to recruit and radicalize.

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>> Its social media
presence is more widespread

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than any other terrorist group.

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ISIL has often shaped its media
contents to amplify the effect

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of its violent operations
and activities.

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They do so in an attempt to project
an image of power and intimidation.

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>> [Inaudible] Republican
Congresswoman Martha McSally is a

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member of the Homeland
Security Committee,

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and she was at that hearing.

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Congresswoman, welcome.

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Good to have you here this morning.

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>> Thanks.

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Good to be here.

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>> You know you see what
happened in Boston obviously,

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and it makes you extremely
concerned I know

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about how active these online
recruiting efforts are.

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And there are so many vulnerable
young men and women as you point

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out who for some reason
are succumbing to this.

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>> Absolutely I just came from
a classified update on this

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and the other terror
threats abroad and at home,

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and what we're seeing is this
sophisticated social media campaign.

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Over 200,000 ISIS-related
tweets a day.

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Think about that.

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And they're using it to recruit
individuals to come to the fight,

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get training, join the fight
over in Iraq and Syria.

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And then maybe flow back.

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But they're also using it to
try and inspire individuals,

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wherever they are, to
radicalize them and to take action

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in their own communities.

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So Boston is just another example.

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It looks like individuals, they
just wanted to take action.

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They're an action-oriented
terrorist organization.

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Great work by federal and
local law enforcement.

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They were tracking this guy.

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>> Okay. This was just an example.

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Let's go back.

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The book that I published recently
by Columbia University Press

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and Wilson Center, Terrorism in
Cyberspace is looking at the future.

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The emerging trends
and the future threats.

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This is why I called it,
subtitled it, the next generation.

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Just to get you, and it'll
take me only one minute,

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what is the book all about?

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The main chapters are part one,

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actually reviews the
history of terrorism online.

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How terrorists started
using the internet.

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And they started in the late '90s.

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And we were there already
18 years ago,

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monitoring terrorist
presence online.

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Al-Qaeda was there.

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[Inaudible] was there.

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ISIS was not there of course.

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ISIS were not existed then.

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So the first part is a short review
of the history of online terrorism.

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The second part looks
at emerging trends.

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What are the new trends
in online terrorism?

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Some of them we actually
witness every day to-date.

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The first one is called
narrowcasting.

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I will not discuss it today,
but I will mention it.

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Narrowcasting means the terrorism
moved from one website to all

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to numerous platforms,
targeting subpopulations.

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So instead of one message
directed to all, they are very wise

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and very sophisticated about slicing

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down the target audiences
into small groups.

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And narrowcasting means that they
have special platforms and websites

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and forums and chatrooms and
videos targeting children, women,

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overseas communities,
immigrants and so on.

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So that's narrowcasting.

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And it's well related to the second
topic, which I will discuss now,

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lone wolves in cyberspace.

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All cases of terrorist attacks,
recent attacks in the US

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and in Europe, all of them
seem to be lone wolves.

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People acting by themselves.

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Not a type of group
action like we saw in 9/11.

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Are there really lone wolves?

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And I will argue that we should look
for the virtual pack behind them.

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And we can find the virtual pack.

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So I discuss it later today.

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E-marketing.

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E-marketing reflects the new
trend of online marketing.

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Now terrorists, as
this chapter reveals,

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learned how to use marketing
techniques when appealing recruited,

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seducing, radicalizing
and activating the people.

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Fourth issue, which I don't
have the time to discuss today,

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but's all in the book,
is debates online.

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Terrorists not only use online
platforms to recruit, to seduce,

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to spread propaganda, to frighten us
with all those executions and so on.

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But they also debate online.

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Which gives us an interesting
opening, or window if you want,

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to the inner debates
among terrorist groups,

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between groups, within
groups and so on.

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Online fatwas.

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Radical Islam is often
challenged by questions,

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should we kill innocent people?

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How about killing our own brothers?

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Is it legitimate to
kill children and women?

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And as you will see, very
often all of these are solved

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by fatwas, by religious loves.

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Only those fatwas today
are spread online.

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So we have online fatwas issued
by I would say significant persons

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in the extremists world
and published online.

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And finally, an issue
we will discuss today,

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terror on social media.

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So these are the emerging
trends of the last years.

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But I also look at future trends.

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And some of them will
be discussed today.

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The issue of cyberterrorism,
OPM was just an example.

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And not the most frightening
one as I will discuss later.

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Counterterrorism.

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How can we fight back
terrorism online?

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I will discuss some of it today.

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The war of narratives,
launching counter complaints,

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fighting against the
terrorist narratives and so on.

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And the need to balance the war of
terrorism with the need to preserve

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and protect our civil liberties.

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So what is the golden pass?

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The ideal compromise

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between national security
and civil liberties?

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How can we achieve that?

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So that, all of it is
discussed in the book.

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If you're interested,
the books are out there.

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But first let me know take you
to the world on online terrorism.

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Some illustrative examples.

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This is a new type of, if
you want, terrorist setup.

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Terrorists and computers.

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These are Chechen rebels, with
a laptop in front of them.

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These is a [inaudible]
rebel, [inaudible],

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yeah, rifle and a computer.

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Usbeki Jihadist leader
[inaudible] and a computer.

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This is the so-called spokesperson
in English for Al Qaeda,

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Adam Yahiye Gadahn,
half Jewish by the way.

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Converted to Islam.

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Joined Al Qaeda and became
the spokesperson in English.

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Well as you can see, two computers.

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Does this look like a computer
lab or a terrorist camp?

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Well this is actually Hezbollah
bunker captured in 2006.

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You don't see weapons there,
but you see a lot of computers.

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ISIS as we know it today.

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And of course the recent examples
that we witnessed executions online,

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crucifications [phonetic]
online, mass shootings,

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executions by burning a pile
of beheadings and so on.

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All of it videotaped,
high definition,

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edited and posted online.

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And gaining I would say
huge exposure worldwide.

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So how do we get all this data?

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And I'm glad to say I have
[Inaudible] where are you?

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Just raise your point.

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I even have an ex-research
assistant involved in this project,

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now PhD candidate at the
University of Pennsylvania.

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Nice to have you here again.

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The study started in 1998.

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At that time I had one student,

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[inaudible] who was
interested in the topic.

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And we, both of us monitored
terrorism presence online.

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We had only 12 websites.

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It was easy.

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Most of them one language only.

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Very stable.

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Not very sophisticated
and not well protected.

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Today we are dealing with over
9,800, almost 10,000 websites on top

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of that, all the social
platform, okay.

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Instagram, YouTube,
Twitter, Facebook, and so on.

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What we do is actually
like librarians,

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we first download the
material and archive it.

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And then we code it so we can
search it, we can analyze it,

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we can look for any type of
information for various studies.

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We download everything, visual as
well as textual, music, videos,

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books, manuals, whatever they have.

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The research, this study
was funded by several grants

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from academic institutions,
USAB [phonetic] including,

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National Institute of
Justice and IJ in the states.

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Woodrow Wilson Center, and
recently the European Community, EU,

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which is funding our current
research online on radicalization.

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All our findings are
reported in books

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like the one you see outside
of the previous books.

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You see some of them here.

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Special Reports, and so on.

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This book was the last
one I published in 2006.

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Now replaced by the new book,
2015, that looks at what happened

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since then and at the near future.

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Let me argue that there
were three stages

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in terrorists' presence online.

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The first one, the early one,

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starting in the late
90s, was websites only.

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Each terrorist group first 12, then
20, today all of them, had websites.

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Websites in which they presented
propaganda, the leadership,

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some information about how
to join them and so on.

17:54.620 --> 17:58.690
The second stage started
later in the early 2000s

17:58.690 --> 18:01.390
when they were looking
for interacting ways.

18:01.390 --> 18:04.440
Not just one way website.

18:04.440 --> 18:07.030
But they wanted to
interact with the audiences

18:07.030 --> 18:09.380
to seduce, to convince, to recruit.

18:09.380 --> 18:11.220
They needed interactive platforms.

18:11.220 --> 18:14.780
So they added in the second
state, interactive platforms

18:14.780 --> 18:16.420
like forums and chatrooms.

18:16.420 --> 18:22.310
And the third stage, which is
currently the hottest platform,

18:22.310 --> 18:28.210
are the social media,
meaning YouTube, Facebook,

18:28.210 --> 18:31.580
Twitter, Instagram and so on.

18:31.580 --> 18:33.060
Now what are the emerging threats?

18:33.060 --> 18:36.490
I won't be able to discuss
all of them, but let me focus

18:36.490 --> 18:39.020
on at least three of them.

18:39.020 --> 18:41.750
And I leave some time for questions.

18:41.750 --> 18:43.800
Lone wolves in cyberspace.

18:43.800 --> 18:46.500
The migration to social media.

18:46.500 --> 18:48.750
And the future threat,

18:48.750 --> 18:51.200
or the current threat
actually, of cyberterrorism.

18:51.200 --> 18:56.910
As I said, the dark
cloud already came to us.

18:56.910 --> 18:59.490
Well lone wolves.

18:59.490 --> 19:04.330
The term lone wolves is
wrong and misleading.

19:04.330 --> 19:08.810
It gives us the idea that
these are individuals working

19:08.810 --> 19:11.450
by themselves, operating
by themselves.

19:11.450 --> 19:16.410
Well like in nature, the
real wolves never hunt alone.

19:16.410 --> 19:18.490
A lone wolf in nature will die.

19:18.490 --> 19:23.370
They need a pack in order
to hunt effectively.

19:23.370 --> 19:26.250
And the same applies to terrorism.

19:26.250 --> 19:31.340
We may see the lone
operator, the lone attacker,

19:31.340 --> 19:34.460
the guy who has the knife,
the guy who has the bomb,

19:34.460 --> 19:40.600
those guys with the pressure
cooker in the marathon in Boston.

19:40.600 --> 19:45.350
But trust me, behind each one
of them there's a virtual back.

19:45.350 --> 19:49.770
There's a pack that recruited
them, that radicalized them,

19:49.770 --> 19:52.650
that taught them, trained
them, and launched them.

19:52.650 --> 19:53.950
They are never alone.

19:53.950 --> 19:58.300
The only thing is that all
of these virtual packs are

19:58.300 --> 20:00.240
to be found online.

20:00.240 --> 20:06.060
And this is the new trend, because
most of recent terrorist attacks,

20:06.060 --> 20:12.320
and I guess those in the future,
will not be the old form of Al Qaeda

20:12.320 --> 20:15.520
like a huge group attacking
but will be

20:15.520 --> 20:18.510
as they are now, a
lone wolf attacking.

20:18.510 --> 20:22.980
A lone wolf backed, supported,
directed by a virtual pack.

20:22.980 --> 20:25.330
And all of this is done online.

20:25.330 --> 20:28.370
So all we have to do is
actually go into cyberspace

20:28.370 --> 20:31.450
and look for the footprints.

20:31.450 --> 20:35.120
And you find the footprints,
the virtual footprints

20:35.120 --> 20:40.670
in the cyberspace, leading,
revealing the pack behind them.

20:40.670 --> 20:42.120
Let's look at the Boston Marathon

20:42.120 --> 20:45.710
that took place in
2013, two years ago.

20:45.710 --> 20:48.210
Those two guys, the two
brothers that you see here,

20:48.210 --> 20:52.910
the Tsarnaev brothers, never
attended any terrorist camp.

20:52.910 --> 20:57.260
They never went to any
recruitment process.

20:57.260 --> 21:01.100
And they didn't know anything
about bombing a marathon.

21:01.100 --> 21:04.910
But they knew, because they learned.

21:04.910 --> 21:11.820
They were recruited, seduced,
and I would say trained online.

21:11.820 --> 21:14.910
The tracks they left online,
and there are so many of them.

21:14.910 --> 21:21.330
You can find easily if you searched
their track on social platforms.

21:21.330 --> 21:24.350
You find Twitter postings, tweets.

21:24.350 --> 21:28.280
You find Facebook postings.

21:28.280 --> 21:31.020
You'll find the pages
that they downloaded,

21:31.020 --> 21:33.790
including one that you
see here on the right.

21:39.750 --> 21:42.890
That one. Open Source Jihad.

21:42.890 --> 21:44.190
Okay, what's that?

21:44.190 --> 21:48.040
That's a manual, online
manual for terrorists.

21:48.040 --> 21:52.170
They can form a magazine called
Inspire published in English online.

21:52.170 --> 21:56.830
And one of the elements
there is if you can see it,

21:56.830 --> 22:00.070
make a bomb in the
kitchen of your mom.

22:00.070 --> 22:04.310
If you open that page, you're
very likely to see this.

22:04.310 --> 22:07.500
Instructions how to build a
bomb from pressure cooker.

22:07.500 --> 22:11.970
By the way, I erased the lines,
so I don't want to teach you.

22:11.970 --> 22:14.840
I bet some of you have
pressure cookers at home,

22:14.840 --> 22:17.470
and some of you have,
well, targets in mind.

22:17.470 --> 22:22.470
So, but they certainly
downloaded it.

22:22.470 --> 22:23.770
Because they followed it.

22:23.770 --> 22:26.750
They did exactly what
is shown there.

22:26.750 --> 22:30.600
And they followed the advice
from Open Source Jihad.

22:30.600 --> 22:35.220
As did so many other lone wolves.

22:35.220 --> 22:39.300
Remember the last month's
attack in Texas

22:39.300 --> 22:45.460
and the people who were involved.

22:45.460 --> 22:47.690
Elton Simpson and Nadir Soofi.

22:47.690 --> 22:48.990
Lone wolves.

22:48.990 --> 22:54.760
Really? Well here's the other
footprints in the snow if you want.

22:54.760 --> 22:56.440
In the cyber snow.

22:56.440 --> 22:57.870
They left tracks behind.

22:57.870 --> 23:02.310
And you can easily see
which kind of websites.

23:02.310 --> 23:08.070
The one that I highlight here in
the top is the website of al-Awlaki,

23:08.070 --> 23:11.830
the preacher of Al Qaeda.

23:11.830 --> 23:13.690
Even after his death,
he's still popular,

23:13.690 --> 23:16.880
and he will be mentioned
today several times.

23:16.880 --> 23:18.280
So they went to his website,

23:18.280 --> 23:22.460
and they downloaded is
preaching, his suggestions, ideas.

23:22.460 --> 23:29.190
But they also left messages
on Facebook and tweeted.

23:29.190 --> 23:34.130
And as you see, may Allah
accept us as [inaudible].

23:34.130 --> 23:40.120
That was just the day
they planned to attack.

23:40.120 --> 23:45.510
And who was the recruiter
of those two lone wolves?

23:45.510 --> 23:47.720
We can find him too.

23:47.720 --> 23:56.210
As in the Hebdo attack in
France, Charlie Hebdo cartoons,

23:56.210 --> 24:00.810
the [inaudible] cartoons attack.

24:00.810 --> 24:08.270
This guy nicknamed [Inaudible],
and we know who he is,

24:08.270 --> 24:13.530
suggested to those two guys in Texas
that you should do the own path

24:13.530 --> 24:15.710
as it was done in France.

24:15.710 --> 24:21.460
So you can reveal the recruiters
that seduce the launching and so on.

24:21.460 --> 24:23.650
All of these guys are lone wolves.

24:23.650 --> 24:26.370
None of them was really a lone wolf.

24:26.370 --> 24:29.000
And just to show you that if we look

24:29.000 --> 24:33.330
at in a graphical way,
who are they linked to?

24:33.330 --> 24:35.300
Forget the colors and
the names and so on,

24:35.300 --> 24:37.220
but you can see one thing in common.

24:37.220 --> 24:41.250
Most of the lines, in terms of
who are they [inaudible] to?

24:41.250 --> 24:43.560
Which websites they went to?

24:43.560 --> 24:47.120
Which contents or videos
they downloaded?

24:47.120 --> 24:53.410
You'll find that almost all of
them are leading to one guy,

24:53.410 --> 24:59.480
in the center, Anwar al-Awlaki,
the preacher in the middle,

24:59.480 --> 25:05.050
almost all of them
are linked to him.

25:05.050 --> 25:07.740
So let me move to the
next new trend,

25:07.740 --> 25:10.360
and this is the issue of new media.

25:10.360 --> 25:13.090
The migration to new media.

25:13.090 --> 25:17.310
ISIS for example, was
born into the third stage.

25:17.310 --> 25:21.960
ISIS was born into a stage where
the social media became available,

25:21.960 --> 25:26.960
relevant, efficient and
I would say very free

25:26.960 --> 25:30.710
and open to terrorists like ISIS.

25:30.710 --> 25:35.710
Terrorists today are using all
social platform, including Facebook,

25:35.710 --> 25:39.660
Flickr, YouTube, Twitter, Second
Life if you know the game,

25:39.660 --> 25:42.720
Instagram, and Google Earth.

25:42.720 --> 25:45.630
I'm quite sure that you're aware
of Google Earth, but try to think

25:45.630 --> 25:46.930
for a second as terrorists.

25:46.930 --> 25:50.780
Isn't it nice to have
Google Earth as a terrorist?

25:50.780 --> 25:52.790
Free satellite services.

25:52.790 --> 25:54.450
Free of charge.

25:54.450 --> 25:55.750
Are they using it?

25:55.750 --> 25:57.050
Of course they do.

25:57.050 --> 26:02.140
The Mumbai attack in India,
I'll come to that in a second.

26:02.140 --> 26:05.610
The terrorists that attacked
Mumbai, several, in the same day,

26:05.610 --> 26:07.490
several targets at the same time.

26:07.490 --> 26:09.900
It was coffee shop,
hotel, train station

26:09.900 --> 26:14.800
and the [inaudible] synagogue,
killing the rabbi and his family.

26:14.800 --> 26:18.110
All of them came with cellular
phones that had Google Earth maps,

26:18.110 --> 26:22.080
satellite maps directing them
how to get to the location

26:22.080 --> 26:23.380
of the target and the timing.

26:23.380 --> 26:26.810
This difference in timing and so on.

26:26.810 --> 26:30.010
So isn't it nice to
have such services?

26:30.010 --> 26:33.010
Now why are the social
media so relevant for them?

26:33.010 --> 26:35.630
First of all, because
they're interactive.

26:35.630 --> 26:37.250
It's a two-way chat.

26:37.250 --> 26:38.550
They can talk to people.

26:38.550 --> 26:39.870
They can convince people.

26:39.870 --> 26:41.300
They can seduce people.

26:41.300 --> 26:42.850
They can recruit people.

26:42.850 --> 26:46.910
Now ISIS recruited 30,000 warriors,

26:46.910 --> 26:50.030
thousands of them from
western societies.

26:50.030 --> 26:52.050
Europe, North Americans, so on.

26:52.050 --> 26:54.080
And it was all done online.

26:54.080 --> 26:58.710
Because they can use it to talk
to people, to target people,

26:58.710 --> 27:02.870
to convince, to seduce, and when
we speak about narrowcasting,

27:02.870 --> 27:05.470
it means it's not one appeal to it.

27:05.470 --> 27:08.100
ISIS is successful
because ISIS knows how

27:08.100 --> 27:11.180
to direct different appeals
to different populations.

27:11.180 --> 27:14.210
And they can recruit people
who are thrill seekers,

27:14.210 --> 27:21.280
or people who are socially, I would
say alienated, frustrated, hopeless.

27:21.280 --> 27:24.220
They can use the social
bonding motive.

27:24.220 --> 27:27.160
Come to us brother, not for
terrorism, not for suicide,

27:27.160 --> 27:31.040
not for killing, just be part of us.

27:31.040 --> 27:34.080
We'll provide you with a
community, with brotherhood.

27:34.080 --> 27:37.360
Terrorism, suicide,
action will come later.

27:37.360 --> 27:41.860
Different appeals, narrowcasting,
very efficient social media.

27:41.860 --> 27:43.970
This is why so many platforms.

27:43.970 --> 27:50.660
And remember the number,
200,000 tweets by ISIS in day.

27:50.660 --> 27:52.350
They tweet all over.

27:52.350 --> 27:56.260
And they use the new recruits
to recruit the others.

27:56.260 --> 28:03.590
So French ISIS recruits will speak
French to French populations.

28:03.590 --> 28:05.900
Germans will do it,
English, Canadian-Americans.

28:05.900 --> 28:09.520
So now social media also
very trendy, very popular,

28:09.520 --> 28:12.880
especially among young audiences.

28:12.880 --> 28:17.670
And if you want, it's not
waiting for you to come

28:17.670 --> 28:20.890
to us to visit our website.

28:20.890 --> 28:24.610
It's us coming to you and knocking
on your door using social media.

28:24.610 --> 28:30.930
So it's more like a push strategy in
marketing than instead of the pull.

28:30.930 --> 28:32.370
I'm not waiting for you.

28:32.370 --> 28:33.670
I'm coming to you.

28:33.670 --> 28:37.140
I'm going to come talk to
you using those social media.

28:37.140 --> 28:43.480
And only recently months ago,
FBI's director James Comey says

28:43.480 --> 28:48.790
that social media are the biggest
threat in terms of future terrorism.

28:48.790 --> 28:50.650
And I fully agree.

28:50.650 --> 28:52.310
Now how do they use it?

28:52.310 --> 28:55.500
Well YouTube, They tube.

28:55.500 --> 28:57.560
You can even see that they manage

28:57.560 --> 29:00.410
to have their own YouTube
calling it Jihad Tube.

29:00.410 --> 29:02.100
See on the bottom.

29:02.100 --> 29:04.440
Broadcast your holy war.

29:04.440 --> 29:07.900
Jihad Tube using the
logo of YouTube.

29:07.900 --> 29:09.200
Why YouTube?

29:09.200 --> 29:15.840
Because YouTube is visual,
attractive, very easy to find,

29:15.840 --> 29:18.710
appealing very much to young people.

29:18.710 --> 29:20.010
And can be downloaded.

29:20.010 --> 29:23.210
People can download it to
the telephones, to the CDS,

29:23.210 --> 29:27.550
watch it at home, show
it to others and so on.

29:27.550 --> 29:31.350
Now let me give you just
one example of few examples.

29:31.350 --> 29:32.650
How YouTube is used.

29:32.650 --> 29:35.250
If you just know access YouTube,

29:35.250 --> 29:39.060
go to the search engine
and put the word Hamas.

29:39.060 --> 29:48.270
You'll find that there are 9,890
videos of Hamas online right now.

29:48.270 --> 29:53.280
If you put the Hamas Islamic
resistance movement, okay,

29:53.280 --> 29:59.060
you'll find 1,460,
80, videos posted.

29:59.060 --> 30:03.460
Remember Awlaki, the
preacher, the vicious one?

30:03.460 --> 30:06.330
The one that was connected
to so many lone wolves,

30:06.330 --> 30:10.020
even after his death, his
videos are still powerful.

30:10.020 --> 30:11.380
Access by those people

30:11.380 --> 30:15.090
who are committing those
lone wolves attacks.

30:15.090 --> 30:20.280
So put tribute, just the word,
the sentence tribute to al-Awlaki

30:20.280 --> 30:24.010
on YouTube, American platform, okay.

30:24.010 --> 30:27.300
How many anti-American
videos you'll find,

30:27.300 --> 30:33.460
4,580 videos off a dead
preacher who's still alive

30:33.460 --> 30:35.160
if you want online.

30:35.160 --> 30:40.100
Facebook. Again, I'm
using Awlaki because he's

30:40.100 --> 30:42.840
so important even after his death.

30:42.840 --> 30:46.510
He is interacting with
his audience on Facebook.

30:46.510 --> 30:51.050
Somebody presents his
messages, his pictures.

30:51.050 --> 30:53.670
Somebody answers messages
sent to him.

30:53.670 --> 30:57.740
And the messages are
always very vicious,

30:57.740 --> 31:01.530
very aggressive, very violent.

31:01.530 --> 31:03.820
And I just gave you some examples

31:03.820 --> 31:06.840
like from Facebook
generation Awlaki,

31:06.840 --> 31:09.500
if you're just going
Facebook and search it,

31:09.500 --> 31:10.800
you'll see what's posted there.

31:10.800 --> 31:12.100
And it will scare you.

31:12.100 --> 31:14.500
And it's all up there.

31:14.500 --> 31:17.560
Twitter, those short messages.

31:17.560 --> 31:20.370
Well I used Twitter,
not me actually,

31:20.370 --> 31:23.170
it's ISIS that took
the logo of Twitter

31:23.170 --> 31:27.080
and combined it with their messages.

31:27.080 --> 31:31.910
Remember the attack in Kenya
in Nairobi in 2013, September,

31:31.910 --> 31:36.030
by a group related, al
Shabaab, related to Al Qaeda,

31:36.030 --> 31:40.550
a branch of Al Qaeda, an affiliate
of Al Qaeda, who attacked.

31:40.550 --> 31:43.230
They are from Somalia,
but they attacked the mall

31:43.230 --> 31:45.350
in Nairobi, the Westgate Mall.

31:45.350 --> 31:48.910
Now the world didn't know
much about that attack,

31:48.910 --> 31:53.480
but they were fed constantly
by tweets postings

31:53.480 --> 31:55.470
by that group, al Shabaab.

31:55.470 --> 32:00.900
And you see that the way they
reported each, and I have just some

32:00.900 --> 32:04.840
of the messages for you,
selected some of the messages.

32:04.840 --> 32:10.250
HSM Press Office was
actually the PR service online

32:10.250 --> 32:12.910
on Twitter by this group.

32:12.910 --> 32:16.860
Constantly telling the people in the
world what's happening in the mall,

32:16.860 --> 32:19.500
how many people are
killed, updating the media.

32:19.500 --> 32:25.670
And the world media were dependent
on the feeding, on those feeds,

32:25.670 --> 32:28.200
coming on Twitter from
a terrorist group.

32:28.200 --> 32:36.640
Al Qaeda is on Twitter, and ISIS
is on Twitter using video to post

32:36.640 --> 32:40.080
and direct people to watch
the videos on mass executions.

32:40.080 --> 32:43.670
I'm not going to show you
any of those gruesome videos,

32:43.670 --> 32:45.790
but you know them, and you saw them.

32:45.790 --> 32:51.650
All of it is not just posted online,
but promoted on social platforms.

32:51.650 --> 32:54.740
Prisoners crucified by ISIS.

32:54.740 --> 33:00.040
And the recent example,
again, just weeks ago,

33:00.040 --> 33:09.540
a tweet called Londonattack calling,
May 11, calling to attack London.

33:09.540 --> 33:14.750
And believe it or not, one of
those postings include a list

33:14.750 --> 33:20.400
of Jewish targets in London,
synagogues, officials,

33:20.400 --> 33:25.470
embassy people, their
addresses, and so on.

33:25.470 --> 33:29.060
So let's move to the last
one, the third threat.

33:29.060 --> 33:32.250
And maybe the most
dangerous one, cyberterrorism.

33:32.250 --> 33:33.550
Now what's the difference?

33:33.550 --> 33:37.820
Instead of using the internet,
instead of using those platforms,

33:37.820 --> 33:40.680
we are looking at attacking
the platforms.

33:40.680 --> 33:44.250
Attacking the internet.

33:44.250 --> 33:45.780
Attacking computer networks.

33:45.780 --> 33:48.830
Now we rely heavily on computers.

33:48.830 --> 33:51.930
Everything that we do
from banking to education,

33:51.930 --> 33:54.350
from our work to our transportation.

33:54.350 --> 33:56.780
From infrastructure.

33:56.780 --> 33:59.300
From transportation.

33:59.300 --> 34:02.010
Everything is controlled
by computers.

34:02.010 --> 34:05.390
Now instead of hijacking planes,

34:05.390 --> 34:09.300
why don't they damage
the control systems?

34:09.300 --> 34:15.840
Now cyberterrorism is usually the
combination of cyber and terrorism,

34:15.840 --> 34:20.450
using cyber tools,
computer networks,

34:20.450 --> 34:23.300
to sabotage critical
national infrastructures.

34:23.300 --> 34:28.080
And of course, it may
seem almost impossible

34:28.080 --> 34:29.700
if you think about terrorists.

34:29.700 --> 34:33.050
I mean you say terrorists, well
they know how to use social media.

34:33.050 --> 34:38.630
But can they really break into
our defended, so-called defended,

34:38.630 --> 34:43.710
yeah OPM, so-called
defended facilities.

34:43.710 --> 34:45.660
We have all those firewalls.

34:45.660 --> 34:48.570
We have all those experts
protecting us.

34:48.570 --> 34:51.240
Can they do it, I mean
those simple terrorists?

34:51.240 --> 34:54.600
Well let me argue, if they
don't know how to do it,

34:54.600 --> 34:59.390
they certainly can get support
from those people who know it.

34:59.390 --> 35:03.120
Statistically speaking, if
you recruit 30,000 people,

35:03.120 --> 35:07.030
all it takes is one of
them would be a hacker.

35:07.030 --> 35:10.330
One of those 30,000, possible.

35:10.330 --> 35:15.220
Second, they can buy the
services of professional hackers.

35:15.220 --> 35:16.520
Buy them for money.

35:16.520 --> 35:19.580
Buy them or recruit them.

35:19.580 --> 35:24.710
Seduce them, ideologically,
religiously, whatever.

35:24.710 --> 35:28.950
And the third option,
which is the scariest one,

35:28.950 --> 35:33.830
terrorists very often are
backed, supported by states.

35:33.830 --> 35:37.330
Iran is supporting
several terrorist groups.

35:37.330 --> 35:41.780
Syria, now North Korea.

35:41.780 --> 35:44.890
Those countries have military units

35:44.890 --> 35:48.450
that are specializing
in cyberattacks.

35:48.450 --> 35:53.680
And the attack on China came from
professional hackers, on OPM.

35:54.710 --> 35:58.470
Now just imagine that some of
those states will provide services

35:58.470 --> 36:00.780
to terrorist organizations.

36:00.780 --> 36:02.640
The Syrian, what they call,

36:02.640 --> 36:05.870
also established a unit called
SEA, Syrian electronic army.

36:05.870 --> 36:07.440
I'll show you what they did.

36:07.440 --> 36:11.680
They attacked already in the
states, and very effectively.

36:11.680 --> 36:14.530
Now let's say that ISIS
feels that it's losing,

36:14.530 --> 36:17.740
that it's doomsday for them.

36:17.740 --> 36:21.480
[Inaudible] provide organizations
like Hezbollah with the services

36:21.480 --> 36:22.780
of professional hackers

36:22.780 --> 36:26.670
from [inaudible], all
but Iran and others.

36:26.670 --> 36:29.150
What are, what they,
what can they do to us?

36:29.150 --> 36:33.150
Well, think about all the systems
from government operations,

36:33.150 --> 36:37.940
including Library of Congress, or
OPM to gas, oil storage, deliver,

36:37.940 --> 36:41.780
water facilities, banking,
transportation, electric energy,

36:41.780 --> 36:45.860
nuclear energy, all of them
controlled by computers.

36:45.860 --> 36:50.120
Or the issue of, how many
of you know the term BotNet?

36:50.120 --> 36:51.610
Okay. Good.

36:51.610 --> 36:55.100
To those of you who don't
know, the idea is quite simple.

36:55.100 --> 37:02.790
Let's say that I'm a hacker who
wants to attack a computer network.

37:02.790 --> 37:06.900
And one of the ways to do it is
to plant a virus in computers,

37:06.900 --> 37:09.580
in other computers,
that is spread virus all

37:09.580 --> 37:11.860
over the world in computers.

37:11.860 --> 37:13.550
By the way, it's very
likely that some

37:13.550 --> 37:17.870
of you already having a Bot
infection in your computer.

37:17.870 --> 37:19.180
Now this is a dormant virus.

37:19.180 --> 37:20.780
It won't harm your computer.

37:20.780 --> 37:22.110
It won't slow it down.

37:22.110 --> 37:23.410
It won't do anything.

37:23.410 --> 37:24.710
You won't know it's there.

37:24.710 --> 37:26.010
You won't find it.

37:26.010 --> 37:30.180
And it won't wake up until one day
the operator will send a message

37:30.180 --> 37:36.420
to that network of
viruses, asking them to send

37:36.420 --> 37:46.180
at the same time message, a ping, a
target, which will cause a collapse.

37:46.180 --> 37:48.910
Now is it a scenario?

37:48.910 --> 37:50.460
Is it a dream or nightmare?

37:50.460 --> 37:52.200
Oh it happened already.

37:52.200 --> 37:55.050
And it happened in
several countries.

37:55.050 --> 37:59.140
But let me just use FBI statistics.

37:59.140 --> 38:04.200
Eighteen bot-infected computers
every second, every second,

38:04.200 --> 38:06.070
there are eighteen bot-infected.

38:06.070 --> 38:09.750
And if you look at the
map of countries infected,

38:09.750 --> 38:14.090
it's hard to say, but
in the US, 14%,

38:14.090 --> 38:17.590
14% of the computers
are bot-infected.

38:17.590 --> 38:19.460
Most of them dormant.

38:19.460 --> 38:23.160
They don't do anything, but
they may be activated one day.

38:23.160 --> 38:29.570
And this thing about your 4%, 6%,
5% of the computers and so on.

38:29.570 --> 38:30.870
Was it used?

38:30.870 --> 38:35.830
Well we saw that Estonia cyberattack
in 2007, causing the collapse

38:35.830 --> 38:38.640
of the entire computer
system of the states.

38:38.640 --> 38:40.480
From banks to universities.

38:40.480 --> 38:42.510
From government to transportation.

38:42.510 --> 38:47.530
Everything collapsed due to
an attack, type of denial

38:47.530 --> 38:51.840
of service attack stemming
from Russian hackers.

38:51.840 --> 38:56.530
Another example, before the
Russians invaded Georgia,

38:56.530 --> 39:00.110
the same type of cyberattack.

39:00.110 --> 39:04.270
So it's not really just a scenario.

39:04.270 --> 39:06.600
It happened, and it happens.

39:06.600 --> 39:08.360
Now what does it take
for terrorists to do it?

39:08.360 --> 39:13.400
The first one is motivation, and
the second one is the capability.

39:13.400 --> 39:16.030
The knowledge and the
skills to do it.

39:16.030 --> 39:17.510
Now motivation.

39:17.510 --> 39:19.200
How can we study motivation?

39:19.200 --> 39:21.490
We look to, we are
monitoring terrorist chatter.

39:21.490 --> 39:24.810
We are looking at the
number of times they write

39:24.810 --> 39:27.400
about cyberterrorism, can
see the cyberterrorism.

39:27.400 --> 39:29.580
Suggest that cyberterrorism.

39:29.580 --> 39:33.570
And I have all the indications
that this is really appealing

39:33.570 --> 39:36.240
to them today more than in the past.

39:36.240 --> 39:38.440
And again, try to think
like terrorists.

39:38.440 --> 39:42.090
After 9/11, what could
be more dramatic,

39:42.090 --> 39:45.880
more effective, than cyberterrorism?

39:45.880 --> 39:47.510
Because 9/11 was really dramatic.

39:47.510 --> 39:50.300
I mean killing 3,000
people in one day, targeting

39:50.300 --> 39:54.470
and hitting the most
important places or symbols

39:54.470 --> 39:59.180
of American economy, American
military and American politics.

39:59.180 --> 40:00.480
What can top that?

40:00.480 --> 40:01.890
Cyberattack.

40:01.890 --> 40:06.540
Now the issue of knowhow
is more difficult.

40:06.540 --> 40:08.820
Because it's not that easy.

40:08.820 --> 40:14.640
To upload a video to a website or to
YouTube, well every child can do it.

40:14.640 --> 40:17.880
To attack infrastructure
while protected,

40:17.880 --> 40:20.260
you need professionals
who can do it.

40:20.260 --> 40:23.290
Well they can be bought,
or they can be taught.

40:23.290 --> 40:25.170
They can be radicalized.

40:25.170 --> 40:29.040
They can be recruited, or
they can be bought for money.

40:30.470 --> 40:32.260
To indicate that they are interested

40:32.260 --> 40:34.340
in cyberterrorism,
look at ISIS posting.

40:34.340 --> 40:38.470
This is one of the recent ones that
just pulled out of many examples.

40:38.470 --> 40:43.180
ISIS in May, 2015,
posted this threat

40:43.180 --> 40:47.000
of using cyberterrorism
against the West.

40:47.000 --> 40:49.250
Now who can be supporting them?

40:49.250 --> 40:52.760
As I said, states that have the
units, the capacities there,

40:52.760 --> 40:54.900
the professionals who
can provide them.

40:54.900 --> 40:56.750
And again, remember
the relationships

40:56.750 --> 40:59.970
between some terrorist groups
and the states supporting them.

40:59.970 --> 41:03.280
Let it be Iran, Syria, and others.

41:03.280 --> 41:05.320
They can provide.

41:05.320 --> 41:07.330
Second, criminals.

41:07.330 --> 41:08.630
Cybercrime.

41:08.630 --> 41:12.340
There can be nation of criminals
working, criminal hackers working

41:12.340 --> 41:14.930
for terrorist groups or
bought by terrorist groups.

41:14.930 --> 41:17.000
Terrorists themselves
that can recruit people

41:17.000 --> 41:22.230
who would be converted, who
would be seduced to join.

41:23.250 --> 41:25.540
Well, I skip that.

41:25.540 --> 41:30.590
It certainly looks like a
number one threat in the future.

41:30.590 --> 41:34.640
And the recent attack on
OPM is just an example

41:34.640 --> 41:36.770
of what we can face in the future.

41:36.770 --> 41:39.900
And it may also indicate to us
that if we think that we are

41:39.900 --> 41:43.530
so well protected, and
we are well guarded

41:43.530 --> 41:48.170
by all these firewalls,
remember OPM.

41:48.170 --> 41:51.280
And let me show you that it
doesn't take much in terms

41:51.280 --> 41:54.100
of cyberterrorism to create havoc.

41:54.100 --> 42:00.220
If you want anarchy, and
a collapse of Wall Street.

42:00.220 --> 42:03.050
April, 2013, two years ago, SEA.

42:03.050 --> 42:07.560
That is the Syria Electronic
Army, launched a campaign

42:07.560 --> 42:10.290
against American media,
American banks

42:10.290 --> 42:12.890
and online companies,
cyber companies.

42:12.890 --> 42:14.230
Now who is the SEA?

42:14.230 --> 42:16.930
As I said it's a military
unit of hackers working

42:16.930 --> 42:21.060
for President Bashar
al-Assad, the Syrian President.

42:21.060 --> 42:25.820
What he felt in April, 2013,
that was a different era,

42:25.820 --> 42:28.470
that the Americans are
considering hitting Syria

42:28.470 --> 42:31.940
because Assad was using
gas against his own people,

42:31.940 --> 42:34.010
which he probably does today too.

42:34.010 --> 42:37.190
But he wanted to, I would say,

42:37.190 --> 42:40.990
show the Americans the
potential of a cyberattack.

42:40.990 --> 42:46.980
So his hackers attacked numerous
facilities, including the AP,

42:46.980 --> 42:50.000
Associated Press, okay,
the news agency.

42:50.000 --> 42:51.490
Now let me show you what they did.

42:51.490 --> 42:52.790
Very simple.

42:52.790 --> 42:57.040
For a few minutes they managed to
present you see the bottom left,

42:57.040 --> 43:03.560
a message, AP, the Associate Press,
they broke into the AP, Twitter,

43:03.560 --> 43:05.680
and they posted a message.

43:05.680 --> 43:08.130
Breaking news, two
explosions in the White House

43:08.130 --> 43:10.530
and Barack Obama is injured.

43:10.530 --> 43:12.450
Now that was of course false.

43:12.450 --> 43:14.550
But for a couple of
minutes, it was spread.

43:14.550 --> 43:19.970
Now AP has thousands of clients,
news organizations, television,

43:19.970 --> 43:24.130
radio stations, newspapers
and so on, and online.

43:24.130 --> 43:26.060
And it was spread all over.

43:26.060 --> 43:27.360
What did it cause?

43:27.360 --> 43:30.690
Now look at the graph,
and you can see up here,

43:30.690 --> 43:33.310
this is the time, okay, 1:00.

43:33.310 --> 43:35.660
This was released around 1:00.

43:35.660 --> 43:39.490
You see the drop here, the
collapse of the Dow Jones.

43:39.490 --> 43:46.460
And a loss of $136 billion, only
for those minutes, few minutes,

43:46.460 --> 43:49.700
that SEA managed to
spread the false message.

43:49.700 --> 43:53.990
So it didn't take much
to cause this collapse.

43:53.990 --> 43:59.780
Just breaking into the Twitter of
AP and posting a false message.

43:59.780 --> 44:02.260
Just to show you the
potential of cyberattack.

44:02.260 --> 44:06.320
So I'm getting close
to the conclusion.

44:06.320 --> 44:08.280
Just to tell you what
I'm doing now by the way,

44:08.280 --> 44:13.000
the current project right now is
looking at what I call Wikipedia,

44:13.000 --> 44:15.980
Wiki-Terror, the Wiki
page of terrorism.

44:15.980 --> 44:18.070
Looking at what terrorists
are doing in terms

44:18.070 --> 44:20.930
of storing information online.

44:20.930 --> 44:25.440
Not just on the surface of
the online platforms but also

44:25.440 --> 44:30.260
in what we call the dark web,
the dark net, the deep net,

44:30.260 --> 44:32.820
things that are not
accessible by simple search

44:32.820 --> 44:38.700
on search engines like
Google and others.

44:38.700 --> 44:41.720
And just to show you
that they are collected,

44:41.720 --> 44:44.320
they are building their
own library, okay.

44:44.320 --> 44:46.040
Library of terrorism.

44:46.040 --> 44:48.440
The Wiki page of terrorism, starting

44:48.440 --> 44:53.060
with the Al Qaeda booklet
Lone Mujahid Pocketbook.

44:53.060 --> 44:57.350
That is a guide for
lone wolves, online.

44:57.350 --> 45:02.200
Or the recent one, the ISIS Guide
published in 2015, just this year,

45:02.200 --> 45:04.310
How to Survive in the West.

45:04.310 --> 45:08.450
That is guiding people who join
ISIS but don't go to fight there

45:08.450 --> 45:14.060
but actually here in the West
and will be activated one day.

45:14.060 --> 45:17.020
Another one, a Brief Guide
to the Islamic State 2015.

45:17.020 --> 45:20.020
This are all the type of
material that we are looking now

45:20.020 --> 45:24.370
into filing them, archiving
them, analyzing them,

45:24.370 --> 45:28.020
trying to see how terrorism is
using those online facilities

45:28.020 --> 45:32.000
to build their own
library of terrorism.

45:32.000 --> 45:34.000
So finally, the question
that I guess that some

45:34.000 --> 45:38.180
of you will be asking,
so is it a dark future?

45:38.180 --> 45:42.820
Does it mean that we are doomed
to see a wave of smarter,

45:42.820 --> 45:45.460
more sophisticated, more
dangerous terrorism?

45:45.460 --> 45:47.850
Now what can we do about it?

45:47.850 --> 45:50.940
I think we have to understand
that there is a new war.

45:50.940 --> 45:54.590
There is a new arena that
we fight in for years now.

45:54.590 --> 45:56.970
And there are new challenges,
but there are also new ways

45:56.970 --> 45:59.620
that we should consider
in fighting the terrorism.

45:59.620 --> 46:01.570
And in my book suggests
some of them.

46:01.570 --> 46:05.810
Let me just highlight
very briefly some points.

46:05.810 --> 46:07.420
The first one is that in order

46:07.420 --> 46:12.280
to fight online terrorism we need
new type of soldiers, new warriors.

46:12.280 --> 46:14.840
People who are equipped
with a different knowledge,

46:14.840 --> 46:17.650
new weapons and new defenses.

46:17.650 --> 46:20.920
That's clear.

46:20.920 --> 46:25.560
But it also is related
to my claim that the war

46:25.560 --> 46:28.740
on terrorism should be regulated.

46:28.740 --> 46:30.680
It's not regulated right now.

46:30.680 --> 46:33.570
It's a wild, wild west
that goes there.

46:33.570 --> 46:35.210
There are no regulations whatsoever,

46:35.210 --> 46:38.610
who's allowed to do
what to whom and how.

46:38.610 --> 46:43.800
Now we need to regulate it
because as I said in the beginning,

46:43.800 --> 46:46.780
we must find the balance,
the optimal balance,

46:46.780 --> 46:52.560
between the compromise, the ideal
compromise between civil liberties,

46:52.560 --> 46:56.350
sacrificing some of our liberties,

46:56.350 --> 46:59.060
some liberties and
national security.

46:59.060 --> 47:01.120
We can't have both 100%.

47:01.120 --> 47:06.060
But the way we should look at
the war on terrorism online,

47:06.060 --> 47:11.340
we must find a way to regulate it so
that the damage in terms of freedom

47:11.340 --> 47:14.620
of speech, in terms of
privacy, will be minimized.

47:14.620 --> 47:17.860
The third one, and this is a
very important notion in my book.

47:17.860 --> 47:21.900
I would even argue that if you
look for one important sentence

47:21.900 --> 47:24.050
in this book, I guess
there are more than one,

47:24.050 --> 47:27.680
but the most important
sentence is this one.

47:27.680 --> 47:28.980
Preemptive.

47:28.980 --> 47:30.280
What we do so far in terms

47:30.280 --> 47:33.710
of fighting online terrorism is
reacting to what they do to us.

47:33.710 --> 47:36.920
That is we look one day and
say oh, they have websites.

47:36.920 --> 47:38.960
How can we remove them?

47:38.960 --> 47:40.280
How can we block them?

47:40.280 --> 47:43.600
How they went on Twitter
or they use our Facebook.

47:43.600 --> 47:48.240
Or they post videos on YouTube,
or pictures in Instagram.

47:48.240 --> 47:50.230
Now how can we react to that?

47:50.230 --> 47:54.020
And we come up with some ideas
like how can we use Facebook

47:54.020 --> 47:55.860
in order to identify them?

47:55.860 --> 47:58.870
The next day the terrorists
post on Facebook, a guidebook,

47:58.870 --> 48:02.360
How to Avoid Being
Identified on Facebook.

48:02.360 --> 48:04.510
So we react to that manual.

48:04.510 --> 48:09.610
And it's a cat and a mouse
chase, a never ending game.

48:09.610 --> 48:11.400
A dialectic game.

48:11.400 --> 48:13.740
What I suggest is that
we should look

48:13.740 --> 48:16.420
for emerging platforms,
for the next Twitter.

48:16.420 --> 48:17.990
For the next Facebook.

48:17.990 --> 48:21.870
For the next YouTube, and design
them in a way that will be safer,

48:21.870 --> 48:26.540
or at least minimizing the
potential of terrorist abuse.

48:26.540 --> 48:30.510
The people who devised
and produced and promoted

48:30.510 --> 48:35.670
and developed social media
did not consider terrorism.

48:35.670 --> 48:38.630
And now it's too late.

48:38.630 --> 48:41.210
But we can certainly
look at future platform.

48:41.210 --> 48:46.210
And the book is giving some examples
of emerging platforms like Bitcoin.

48:46.210 --> 48:52.050
How can we, instead of just
responding, try to be preemptive.

48:52.050 --> 48:56.040
And the issue of counter campaigns.

48:56.040 --> 48:59.290
We should not leave the
stage only for them.

48:59.290 --> 49:01.950
We can target the same
target populations

49:01.950 --> 49:05.190
with counter narratives,
with counter messages.

49:05.190 --> 49:08.050
We should launch our own campaigns.

49:08.050 --> 49:11.230
And I sometimes wonder how
can this state, the US,

49:11.230 --> 49:13.200
which is leading the world
in terms of political

49:13.200 --> 49:18.340
and commercials campaign so
successfully, so sophisticated,

49:18.340 --> 49:21.460
how come it never came
up with a successful

49:21.460 --> 49:24.270
counterterrorism campaign?

49:24.270 --> 49:28.040
And finally, the issue
of who will do it?

49:28.040 --> 49:31.210
And again in my book, one of
my chapters discusses the issue

49:31.210 --> 49:33.860
of public private partnership.

49:33.860 --> 49:38.120
This war is launched,
this counterterrorism war,

49:38.120 --> 49:40.040
especially when you think
about cyberterrorism,

49:40.040 --> 49:44.130
should not be launched or
conducted only by private sectors,

49:44.130 --> 49:46.690
private companies or
by the public sector.

49:46.690 --> 49:51.280
It should be done by a combination
of two, of the two sectors.

49:51.280 --> 49:55.460
However, as I present in the
book, it's hard to see here,

49:55.460 --> 50:02.850
what we have today is not a very
coordinated type of cooperation.

50:02.850 --> 50:11.770
When public agencies, one-on-one,
cooperating with private sectors,

50:11.770 --> 50:19.230
what I suggested that we
will have a mediating organ.

50:19.230 --> 50:25.300
The coordinating organ, that we
coordinate all the advantages

50:25.300 --> 50:27.860
for both sides and
connect the public sector

50:27.860 --> 50:32.550
with the private sector when
it comes to fighting terrorism.

50:32.550 --> 50:36.530
And I think both sides can
benefit from this cooperation.

50:36.530 --> 50:39.720
And certainly if this
cooperation will not be done

50:39.720 --> 50:43.770
as it is done today one-on-one,
and sometimes in a parallel way.

50:43.770 --> 50:45.740
But in a more coordinated way.

50:45.740 --> 50:48.790
And of course, international
cooperation,

50:48.790 --> 50:51.970
because this war is not
the war of one state.

50:51.970 --> 50:54.360
In cyberspace there
is no boundaries,

50:54.360 --> 50:57.410
no police, no immigration officers.

50:57.410 --> 50:59.500
It's a global war.

50:59.500 --> 51:05.120
So we need to broaden the
ties between countries

51:05.120 --> 51:07.340
and to get international
cooperation.

51:07.340 --> 51:08.640
That's it.

51:08.640 --> 51:10.940
Thank you very much.

51:18.070 --> 51:19.940
>> We do have time for questions.

51:19.940 --> 51:23.820
And Gabi you have to
repeat the question.

51:23.820 --> 51:27.880
>> Yeah, I'll do it.

51:27.880 --> 51:32.770
>> Anybody have a question?

51:32.770 --> 51:35.600
>> I do.

51:35.600 --> 51:36.900
>> Yes please.

51:36.900 --> 51:38.420
[ Inaudible Question ]

51:38.420 --> 51:40.080
>> Repeat the question.

51:40.080 --> 51:45.650
>> Yeah, the statistics about
BotNet infections are alarming.

51:45.650 --> 51:51.130
And as you said, you noted that
the highest number was in China.

51:51.130 --> 51:58.450
And again, we have to remember that
percent in China is a huge amount

51:58.450 --> 52:04.640
in terms of the number of computers
and the size of the population.

52:04.640 --> 52:07.930
So yes, BotNet should
be bothering us.

52:07.930 --> 52:10.760
We are not aware of the sizes.

52:10.760 --> 52:12.830
We can, these are only estimates.

52:12.830 --> 52:16.050
But the fact that countries
like the US, which is supposed

52:16.050 --> 52:19.200
to be connected, has
14% of the computers.

52:19.200 --> 52:22.950
Or China is even more than
that, is an alarming fact.

52:22.950 --> 52:25.510
This is what I'm trying to say.

52:27.060 --> 52:28.860
Yes please.

52:28.860 --> 52:38.340
[ Inaudible Question ]

52:38.340 --> 52:42.260
That's a good question,
and I'll repeat it.

52:42.260 --> 52:48.880
Okay. I was asked whether I can
relate to the Israeli experience

52:48.880 --> 52:52.120
in fighting online terrorism, the
American experience and so on.

52:52.120 --> 52:56.810
Let me first emphasize
the need to cooperate.

52:56.810 --> 52:58.840
Because boundaries and borders

52:58.840 --> 53:02.520
and political identities don't
mean anything in cyberspace.

53:02.520 --> 53:05.100
You can sit in an internet
café in Manila,

53:05.100 --> 53:08.070
the Philippines, and
attack New York.

53:08.070 --> 53:11.830
Or you can sit in New York
and attack the Philippines.

53:11.830 --> 53:13.760
It's a global war.

53:13.760 --> 53:16.070
Now the Israeli experience,
but before speaking

53:16.070 --> 53:17.930
about the Israeli experience,
let me first speak

53:17.930 --> 53:19.920
about the European experience.

53:19.920 --> 53:25.800
I'm now involved in a
multi-Euro project, five years.

53:25.800 --> 53:27.550
Twelve European countries,

53:27.550 --> 53:31.280
and the title of the project
is Radicalization Online.

53:31.280 --> 53:33.780
Twelve countries in
Europe are terrified,

53:33.780 --> 53:35.080
and this is an understatement,

53:35.080 --> 53:37.530
terrified from online
radicalization.

53:37.530 --> 53:40.560
Because they have huge
minorities, and they have people

53:40.560 --> 53:43.590
who are recruited by
ISIS and g to ISIS,

53:43.590 --> 53:46.620
or on dormant cells
in the countries.

53:46.620 --> 53:50.750
Twelve countries cooperating
together will provide a better

53:50.750 --> 53:53.040
understanding, a better
means, of fighting.

53:53.040 --> 53:55.640
And we have already
practical findings

53:55.640 --> 53:58.540
after one year only,
from this study.

53:58.540 --> 54:00.230
I'll give you later one example.

54:00.230 --> 54:03.950
And again, it's not one country.

54:03.950 --> 54:06.200
It's 12 countries together
challenged

54:06.200 --> 54:09.710
by the same, by the same threat.

54:09.710 --> 54:11.830
The Israeli experience.

54:11.830 --> 54:17.290
Usual, unfortunately, is a
target for cyberterrorism,

54:17.290 --> 54:18.590
as is other terrorist attacks.

54:18.590 --> 54:20.700
The numbers are alarming.

54:20.700 --> 54:23.630
I mean there are thousands
of attacks every day.

54:23.630 --> 54:26.250
So the Israelis did manage

54:26.250 --> 54:30.070
to I would say develop some
protective measures and also

54:30.070 --> 54:36.440
to build this type of public partner
cooperation, monitored, regulated,

54:36.440 --> 54:39.010
coordinated, by one office only.

54:39.010 --> 54:41.730
The Prime Minister's office.

54:41.730 --> 54:43.610
Speaking about lessons.

54:43.610 --> 54:45.430
One society can teach another.

54:45.430 --> 54:48.810
From our project in
Europe, the EU project,

54:48.810 --> 54:52.590
we found out there was a study in
England about all those people,

54:52.590 --> 54:57.880
and there are hundreds of them,
that went from England to join ISIS.

54:57.880 --> 55:02.240
One common finding, all of
them, were recruited online.

55:02.240 --> 55:03.540
That's known.

55:03.540 --> 55:06.680
But all of them revealed the
fact that they want to join ISIS

55:06.680 --> 55:08.880
to at least one member
of the family.

55:08.880 --> 55:12.100
One member of the family,
spouse, child, parent,

55:12.100 --> 55:14.570
knew about its intention.

55:14.570 --> 55:17.120
What is the practical
lesson from that?

55:17.120 --> 55:19.930
Maybe we should target
not just the people

55:19.930 --> 55:23.950
who are the potential recruits,
but towards the family members,

55:23.950 --> 55:28.440
to be aware, to be minded and
to report any change like that.

55:28.440 --> 55:32.000
So speaking about it to
national cooperation.

55:32.000 --> 55:34.390
Speaking about learning
from the experience

55:34.390 --> 55:36.280
of one society to the other.

55:36.280 --> 55:39.530
There's a growing, I
would say interest,

55:39.530 --> 55:41.240
in international cooperation.

55:41.240 --> 55:46.270
It's far from being ideal or
satisfactory at this stage.

55:46.270 --> 55:48.270
More questions?

55:48.270 --> 55:49.690
Yes please.

55:49.690 --> 55:53.730
>> Are there any lessons we
can learn from your study

55:53.730 --> 55:57.000
of terrorist [inaudible] that
would be helpful to women

55:57.000 --> 56:03.240
who are being terrorized
online by various people?

56:03.240 --> 56:04.540
>> Thank you.

56:04.540 --> 56:06.200
The question was about women.

56:06.200 --> 56:09.230
The one perspective
in online terrorism.

56:09.230 --> 56:12.210
There's a whole chapter in the book

56:12.210 --> 56:14.980
about narrowcasting
and targeting women.

56:14.980 --> 56:19.300
Women became more and more
important targets for extremists.

56:19.300 --> 56:24.660
Even extreme Jihadi movements that
usually regarded women as somebody

56:24.660 --> 56:27.700
who should be at home, raise
the family, support the husband

56:27.700 --> 56:31.520
and so on, are now targeting
women as potential recruits.

56:31.520 --> 56:34.100
ISIS is recruiting women.

56:34.100 --> 56:39.340
Not just as sex slaves and so
on, but recruiting women to join

56:39.340 --> 56:43.140
and fight or support the war.

56:43.140 --> 56:47.030
I think we should be more
alarmed by this new trend

56:47.030 --> 56:48.330
of female oriented [inaudible].

56:48.330 --> 56:55.370
And when I speak about
lessons that you asked about,

56:55.370 --> 56:58.530
and I think that one of the lessons
should be counter complaints.

56:58.530 --> 57:00.480
We should for example reveal

57:00.480 --> 57:04.680
to those western audiences
what is really happening

57:04.680 --> 57:07.130
with the women that go there?

57:07.130 --> 57:09.560
Those women that are
promised husband

57:09.560 --> 57:13.730
and religious satisfaction
or whatever.

57:13.730 --> 57:17.020
What really goes on
there in Iraq and Syria?

57:17.020 --> 57:20.230
I don't think we do enough in
terms of counter complaint.

57:20.230 --> 57:23.810
They, we studied the narratives
they use in order to attract,

57:23.810 --> 57:26.650
seduce and recruit women.

57:26.650 --> 57:27.950
We can actually give you,

57:27.950 --> 57:31.160
and the book is listing
some of those narratives.

57:31.160 --> 57:34.500
All of those narratives can
be countered by a smart,

57:34.500 --> 57:37.330
sophisticated counter complaint.

57:37.330 --> 57:40.860
Targeting the same
populations that they target.

57:40.860 --> 57:46.100
I won't say that it will minimize,
that it will prevent women

57:46.100 --> 57:49.360
from being recruited or
seduced or radicalized,

57:49.360 --> 57:50.850
but it will minimize the number.

57:50.850 --> 57:52.290
That's for sure.

57:52.290 --> 57:53.690
Did I answer the question?

57:53.690 --> 57:57.470
>> I was thinking more of
individuals who are being terrorized

57:57.470 --> 58:02.670
by others on the basis of the
gender or other characteristics.

58:02.670 --> 58:06.560
>> Yeah well, the psychological
aspect of terrorism was well know.

58:06.560 --> 58:11.260
The word terror comes from fear
and France, and it was first used

58:11.260 --> 58:15.020
to terrorize the public when
people were executed and beheaded

58:15.020 --> 58:18.410
in public places, French Revolution.

58:18.410 --> 58:20.940
Following the French
Revolution terror was,

58:20.940 --> 58:25.350
state terrorism using the
guillotine to scare others.

58:25.350 --> 58:27.420
Today the executions
do the same thing.

58:27.420 --> 58:29.670
Only that instead of
putting it in a public place,

58:29.670 --> 58:33.710
they put it on YouTube
or Facebook and so on.

58:33.710 --> 58:37.710
We do have to consider the
psychological impact of terrorism.

58:37.710 --> 58:41.530
They are certainly launching
a, one of the earliest users

58:41.530 --> 58:43.920
of online terrorism
was to scare people.

58:43.920 --> 58:47.300
Not just propaganda, but
psychological warfare.

58:47.300 --> 58:53.200
And the idea of presenting people
beheaded, march to mass execution

58:53.200 --> 58:55.930
and those mass graving, mass graves.

58:55.930 --> 58:58.570
The burning of pilots
in cages and all that.

58:58.570 --> 59:02.700
The beheadings of generally, it's
all part of psychological warfare.

59:02.700 --> 59:04.960
And that's a very important
ingredient

59:04.960 --> 59:06.940
in the terrorist campaign.

59:06.940 --> 59:08.310
Yes please.

59:08.310 --> 59:13.480
>> Is there anything
that, is there anything

59:13.480 --> 59:16.910
that your book addresses
regarding the news media,

59:16.910 --> 59:20.550
that the news media can do in terms

59:20.550 --> 59:27.540
of maybe inadvertently
popularizing or glamourizing the.

59:27.540 --> 59:32.190
>> Yes. Well let me direct you to
another book, a much better book,

59:32.190 --> 59:39.760
called Theater of Terror, published
by Gabriel Weimann some years ago.

59:39.760 --> 59:45.240
At that time, that book came out
in the 90s, and we looked at,

59:45.240 --> 59:47.610
let's call it the old media,
the conventional media,

59:47.610 --> 59:49.930
radio, television, so on.

59:49.930 --> 59:52.520
And the book was called
the Theater of Terror,

59:52.520 --> 59:54.730
applying the metaphor theater,

59:54.730 --> 59:59.950
arguing that terrorist attacks are
usually a kind of theater production

59:59.950 --> 1:00:01.760
where the media provide the stage,

1:00:01.760 --> 1:00:04.130
and the audiences are
the real target.

1:00:04.130 --> 1:00:06.440
That is the people for
example, the Israeli athletes

1:00:06.440 --> 1:00:10.370
in the Munich massacre
were not really the target.

1:00:10.370 --> 1:00:14.620
They provided the blood, the drama,
the attraction, the news, the story.

1:00:14.620 --> 1:00:17.850
The real target are the
audiences, and that relates again

1:00:17.850 --> 1:00:19.840
to the psychological impact,

1:00:19.840 --> 1:00:23.270
or the political messages
sent to audiences.

1:00:23.270 --> 1:00:27.200
Eight hundred million viewers were
watching the Munich Olympic live,

1:00:27.200 --> 1:00:29.810
the massacre actually, the event.

1:00:29.810 --> 1:00:32.370
And then we looked at the
last chapter in that book,

1:00:32.370 --> 1:00:37.580
the Theater of Terror, available
at the Library of Congress,

1:00:37.580 --> 1:00:40.050
the last chapter is a question.

1:00:40.050 --> 1:00:41.620
Must the show go on?

1:00:41.620 --> 1:00:42.920
Speaking about the theater.

1:00:42.920 --> 1:00:50.410
And we looked at various
regulations and self-guided media.

1:00:50.410 --> 1:00:52.180
That they adopted some regulation,

1:00:52.180 --> 1:00:54.380
self-regulation actually,
censorship.

1:00:54.380 --> 1:00:58.950
We tried to analyze
whether they really applied,

1:00:58.950 --> 1:01:01.300
like never ask for a deadline.

1:01:01.300 --> 1:01:03.150
I don't interview relatives

1:01:03.150 --> 1:01:09.070
of a hostage while the hostage
is still being kept as a hostage.

1:01:09.070 --> 1:01:12.250
Don't glorify terrorists.

1:01:12.250 --> 1:01:17.840
Don't present terrorist material
without mentioning that it is,

1:01:17.840 --> 1:01:21.310
was produced by terrorists
or it's edited or not edited.

1:01:21.310 --> 1:01:23.230
And that's the book's conclude.

1:01:23.230 --> 1:01:27.370
So we have many, many suggested
regulations, but in many,

1:01:27.370 --> 1:01:29.920
many cases the media don't follow.

1:01:29.920 --> 1:01:35.830
During the hype of a terrorist
case, anything will go,

1:01:35.830 --> 1:01:37.570
including asking terrorists
for deadlines,

1:01:37.570 --> 1:01:43.100
interviewing family members, showing
horrible and gruesome videos.

1:01:43.100 --> 1:01:45.210
But I would argue that today,

1:01:45.210 --> 1:01:48.840
the Theater of Terror lost its
meaning once we have the new media.

1:01:48.840 --> 1:01:52.030
The uncontrolled stage,
the uncensored, the free.

1:01:52.030 --> 1:01:57.330
This is the beauty of the internet
if you want and the weakness.

1:01:57.330 --> 1:01:58.680
Everybody can access it.

1:01:58.680 --> 1:02:00.170
There's no big brother.

1:02:00.170 --> 1:02:02.920
There's no central control.

1:02:02.920 --> 1:02:05.430
Everybody can post
whatever they want.

1:02:05.430 --> 1:02:06.790
It's good for democracy.

1:02:06.790 --> 1:02:11.080
It's good for free
flow communication.

1:02:11.080 --> 1:02:13.230
But it is also good
for the bad guys.

1:02:13.230 --> 1:02:19.040
Let them be people who are producing
porno material, child porno,

1:02:19.040 --> 1:02:23.820
selling drugs, cybercrimes
if you want, cyberterrorists.

1:02:23.820 --> 1:02:25.780
Yes please.

1:02:25.780 --> 1:02:29.940
>> In the years you've
been studying,

1:02:29.940 --> 1:02:32.910
have you seen this [inaudible]
of significant political change

1:02:32.910 --> 1:02:39.980
in the attitudes about the world
events thrust upon us whether we

1:02:39.980 --> 1:02:41.280
want it or not?

1:02:41.280 --> 1:02:43.790
[Inaudible] political
entities that you deal with,

1:02:43.790 --> 1:02:48.720
have they changed their attitudes
about what's happening in the world?

1:02:48.720 --> 1:02:50.020
>> Which political entities?

1:02:50.020 --> 1:02:52.390
I will repeat the question
once I understand it.

1:02:52.390 --> 1:02:54.210
>> [Inaudible] your
messages to get out in order

1:02:54.210 --> 1:02:58.630
for media to change presentations.

1:02:58.630 --> 1:03:04.870
[Inaudible] that there has
to be some change in the way

1:03:04.870 --> 1:03:08.260
that the either social
organizations,

1:03:08.260 --> 1:03:10.280
political organizations understand
cyberterrorism and react to it.

1:03:10.280 --> 1:03:11.770
Have you seen changes
in the [inaudible]?

1:03:11.770 --> 1:03:13.170
>> Okay. Now I understand
the question.

1:03:13.170 --> 1:03:16.820
I was asked whether, do I monitor,
do I [inaudible] any changes

1:03:16.820 --> 1:03:20.630
in terms of political
entities, governments,

1:03:20.630 --> 1:03:23.860
I would say securities
agencies and so on.

1:03:23.860 --> 1:03:25.940
Yes I do. I do find changes.

1:03:25.940 --> 1:03:30.330
And let me say that some years
ago when we started this project,

1:03:30.330 --> 1:03:32.530
we had a hard time convincing people

1:03:32.530 --> 1:03:34.850
that terrorists are
using online platforms.

1:03:34.850 --> 1:03:36.840
Because they came to
us and said, come on,

1:03:36.840 --> 1:03:40.160
the internet is a western tool.

1:03:40.160 --> 1:03:44.910
They come from underdeveloped
countries, third world countries.

1:03:44.910 --> 1:03:48.080
They can't use it, and the audiences
are not using it and so on.

1:03:48.080 --> 1:03:49.810
And then we said well
you must understand

1:03:49.810 --> 1:03:53.200
that they don't use it the same
way we have, we are using it.

1:03:53.200 --> 1:03:55.270
But they have the internet cafes.

1:03:55.270 --> 1:03:57.280
They have public libraries cafes.

1:03:57.280 --> 1:03:59.870
And public libraries'
access to computers.

1:03:59.870 --> 1:04:03.660
And an amount of the rate of
exposures, higher than you see

1:04:03.660 --> 1:04:08.430
than just looking at the diffusion
of computers into the homes.

1:04:08.430 --> 1:04:13.240
It took some years, especially after
9/11, that we were more successful

1:04:13.240 --> 1:04:17.630
in convincing authorities,
counterterrorism agencies,

1:04:17.630 --> 1:04:20.630
governments, and even
funding institutions,

1:04:20.630 --> 1:04:23.530
to support this kind of research.

1:04:23.530 --> 1:04:26.240
I think that today
there's no question.

1:04:26.240 --> 1:04:31.620
The question is do they recognize
the needed steps to fight it?

1:04:31.620 --> 1:04:34.200
And again, this is a gradual process

1:04:34.200 --> 1:04:36.750
in which I say we made some
progress but not enough.

1:04:36.750 --> 1:04:40.750
For example, they were very eager,
whenever we present these findings

1:04:40.750 --> 1:04:43.570
and we do go to, and
I won't mention them.

1:04:43.570 --> 1:04:45.570
I'm not allowed to mention the name

1:04:45.570 --> 1:04:48.380
of those organizations,
including in the states.

1:04:48.380 --> 1:04:51.390
But these are official
counterterrorism units.

1:04:51.390 --> 1:04:55.460
And we present those findings
in workshops, in seminars,

1:04:55.460 --> 1:04:58.790
very often what we are asked
is how can we block them?

1:04:58.790 --> 1:05:02.040
How can we remove them
from online platforms?

1:05:02.040 --> 1:05:03.840
How can we stop them?

1:05:03.840 --> 1:05:05.140
And the answer that I give is

1:05:05.140 --> 1:05:08.640
that we may need a more
sophisticated approach.

1:05:08.640 --> 1:05:11.170
Because some of those websites,
some of those postings,

1:05:11.170 --> 1:05:14.160
some of those videos,
should be kept alive.

1:05:14.160 --> 1:05:15.930
Should be kept alive
because this is a source

1:05:15.930 --> 1:05:18.470
of information, of intelligence.

1:05:18.470 --> 1:05:21.810
Because this is opening a window
into the mindset of terrorists

1:05:21.810 --> 1:05:24.370
that we don't have
anything like that.

1:05:24.370 --> 1:05:29.620
We should also consider
keeping those platforms alive,

1:05:29.620 --> 1:05:31.950
but in the same time,
interfere with them.

1:05:31.950 --> 1:05:35.090
One of the chapters in the
book is called Mud, M-U-D.

1:05:35.090 --> 1:05:37.170
Standing for a model
that we suggest,

1:05:37.170 --> 1:05:40.750
MUD stands for monetary
using and destroying, okay.

1:05:40.750 --> 1:05:44.600
So I actually describe what
kind of websites or what kind

1:05:44.600 --> 1:05:49.930
of online platforms used by
terrorists should be only monitored.

1:05:49.930 --> 1:05:51.520
That's the M at MUD.

1:05:51.520 --> 1:05:57.030
Used, that's the U. Kept
alive, but interfered.

1:05:57.030 --> 1:06:00.540
That is counter complaints,
attacking the authority

1:06:00.540 --> 1:06:02.700
or the credibility
of the sources there.

1:06:02.700 --> 1:06:05.050
And the third one, which
one should be destroyed.

1:06:05.050 --> 1:06:10.830
So I think we are not there in
convincing all those organs,

1:06:10.830 --> 1:06:12.930
units, of what should be done.

1:06:12.930 --> 1:06:15.820
But a growing awareness
I certainly find.

1:06:15.820 --> 1:06:19.430
>> I think there's a question here.

1:06:19.430 --> 1:06:21.250
>> Yes please.

1:06:21.250 --> 1:06:25.820
>> I don't know if my
question will make sense.

1:06:25.820 --> 1:06:31.550
Media outlets like
Facebook, YouTube and Twitter,

1:06:31.550 --> 1:06:34.980
these are private companies
that are profitable.

1:06:34.980 --> 1:06:43.220
My question is, why the government
for example in the US, just talking,

1:06:43.220 --> 1:06:47.460
forced them to establish
filters, especially now

1:06:47.460 --> 1:06:52.610
that they're really helping in
the recruitment, in the messaging,

1:06:52.610 --> 1:06:54.370
or whatever, for the young people?

1:06:54.370 --> 1:06:58.160
As a temporary solution
and probably more complex.

1:06:58.160 --> 1:07:00.900
But to force them to
really set up filters

1:07:00.900 --> 1:07:02.910
so these messages don't go through.

1:07:02.910 --> 1:07:05.220
>> Thank you.

1:07:05.220 --> 1:07:06.760
This question is addressed
in my book.

1:07:06.760 --> 1:07:12.110
I think if you look
at page 185 and on,

1:07:12.110 --> 1:07:16.190
but it's an issue that
is always raised.

1:07:16.190 --> 1:07:19.950
Why won't, if they're
abusing our platforms,

1:07:19.950 --> 1:07:22.130
why don't we regulate the platforms?

1:07:22.130 --> 1:07:25.060
We actually control
Facebook, Twitter,

1:07:25.060 --> 1:07:27.600
those companies, and ask them.

1:07:27.600 --> 1:07:29.560
Stop giving them the access.

1:07:29.560 --> 1:07:30.860
Remove them.

1:07:30.860 --> 1:07:32.160
Block them.

1:07:32.160 --> 1:07:33.460
Hack them and so on.

1:07:33.460 --> 1:07:34.760
Well the answer is not that simple.

1:07:34.760 --> 1:07:36.100
First of all, I'm not
sure that I would

1:07:36.100 --> 1:07:38.830
like to have private
companies playing the role

1:07:38.830 --> 1:07:40.400
of political censors.

1:07:40.400 --> 1:07:45.060
Do we really want YouTube, Facebook,
to decide who's a terrorist

1:07:45.060 --> 1:07:47.280
and what is terrorist material?

1:07:47.280 --> 1:07:49.770
And what should be censored,
and what should be eliminated.

1:07:49.770 --> 1:07:53.220
Second, even if you want to, and
I'm not sure that I want them,

1:07:53.220 --> 1:07:55.500
private companies,
to play this role.

1:07:55.500 --> 1:07:57.320
Are they able to do that?

1:07:57.320 --> 1:08:01.210
There are millions of postings
on Twitter and Facebook.

1:08:01.210 --> 1:08:02.510
Who would do the work?

1:08:02.510 --> 1:08:04.710
Do you expect them to do the search?

1:08:04.710 --> 1:08:06.010
They don't.

1:08:06.010 --> 1:08:10.950
This is why I'm suggesting this kind
of public to private corporation

1:08:10.950 --> 1:08:15.810
in which public companies
will be guided by, assisted,

1:08:15.810 --> 1:08:19.560
by public agencies
regarding definitions

1:08:19.560 --> 1:08:22.250
of what should be removed,
what should be kept,

1:08:22.250 --> 1:08:25.970
how should we, should
it be dealt with.

1:08:25.970 --> 1:08:29.090
And the war on terrorism
should be regulated.

1:08:29.090 --> 1:08:34.500
I agree, but I don't expect it to
be done only by the private sector.

1:08:34.500 --> 1:08:36.970
They are not equipped to do
it, and I'm not quite sure

1:08:36.970 --> 1:08:40.670
that in a democracy would
like private companies

1:08:40.670 --> 1:08:43.490
to play the role of
political censors.

1:08:43.490 --> 1:08:49.140
>> My approach was, when we,
when I talk about filters is

1:08:49.140 --> 1:08:51.760
that the TSA about key words.

1:08:51.760 --> 1:08:54.210
We're not asking to
go after everything,

1:08:54.210 --> 1:08:55.510
but there are some key words

1:08:55.510 --> 1:08:59.460
that I can stop the
message that they contain.

1:08:59.460 --> 1:09:03.200
>> Yeah. Well terrorists are more
sophisticated than you think.

1:09:03.200 --> 1:09:06.290
Because speaking about the
question was about key words.

1:09:06.290 --> 1:09:07.590
Search for key words.

1:09:07.590 --> 1:09:08.890
Terrorists are very smart.

1:09:08.890 --> 1:09:12.290
They don't put words like bomb,
terrorism, suicide, [Inaudible].

1:09:12.290 --> 1:09:15.870
They know that this
will immediately show

1:09:15.870 --> 1:09:17.590
up on any blacklist by any search.

1:09:17.590 --> 1:09:20.380
So just one example by the way.

1:09:20.380 --> 1:09:23.960
Remember 9/11 attack,
9/11 was coordinated,

1:09:23.960 --> 1:09:25.490
the whole attack, online.

1:09:25.490 --> 1:09:28.680
We have all the messages they
exchanged among themselves.

1:09:28.680 --> 1:09:30.630
They were not encrypted.

1:09:30.630 --> 1:09:33.820
They were not hidden in porno
movies as it was suggested.

1:09:33.820 --> 1:09:37.070
They were all exchanged
open in emails.

1:09:37.070 --> 1:09:39.510
But they were using code words.

1:09:39.510 --> 1:09:42.250
Now what was the code words
they used for the targets?

1:09:42.250 --> 1:09:45.930
That by the way, to use online
communication to coordinate,

1:09:45.930 --> 1:09:47.440
they bought the tickets online.

1:09:47.440 --> 1:09:50.080
They checked for the number
of passengers on the planes.

1:09:50.080 --> 1:09:53.850
They tried to find how long it
takes to get to a certain point.

1:09:53.850 --> 1:09:56.250
Everything was done
online so the attacks will,

1:09:56.250 --> 1:09:58.150
probably will hit at the same time.

1:09:58.150 --> 1:10:02.070
Which they desired
and did work for them.

1:10:02.070 --> 1:10:06.410
But, they never mentioned
attacking these targets.

1:10:06.410 --> 1:10:11.770
You know what was the code name
they used for the buildings?

1:10:11.770 --> 1:10:15.780
Faculty of law, faculty of
engineering, faculty of art.

1:10:15.780 --> 1:10:20.260
So that's not enough to
avoid using those code words

1:10:20.260 --> 1:10:24.190
that could be easily identified by
any simple crawler search machine.

1:10:24.190 --> 1:10:25.980
>> I appreciate what
you're saying by the way.

1:10:25.980 --> 1:10:27.280
I understand.

1:10:27.280 --> 1:10:29.550
But you did show a lot of emails.

1:10:29.550 --> 1:10:30.850
>> Right.

1:10:30.850 --> 1:10:35.030
>> The words of Allah, Jihad,
and these are key words,

1:10:35.030 --> 1:10:39.590
at least a good percentage of
them, you can really knock off.

1:10:39.590 --> 1:10:43.610
>> Try to play the owner of Twitter
now and Facebook, and we come to you

1:10:43.610 --> 1:10:45.320
and say you know, give
me the list of people

1:10:45.320 --> 1:10:48.080
that mentioned Allah
in the messages.

1:10:48.080 --> 1:10:53.640
You'll get billions of
postings every hour.

1:10:53.640 --> 1:10:56.730
Would you be able, as the owner
of Facebook, wants to make money

1:10:56.730 --> 1:10:59.570
as you said, to be
engaged in monetary

1:10:59.570 --> 1:11:00.870
and finding who are these people?

1:11:00.870 --> 1:11:02.170
What are the messages?

1:11:02.170 --> 1:11:04.480
Should it be eliminated?

1:11:04.480 --> 1:11:06.880
Well there must some
rewards given to you.

1:11:06.880 --> 1:11:11.260
This is what I suggest by the
public/private corporation.

1:11:11.260 --> 1:11:15.200
Looking for the mutual
advantages in which some

1:11:15.200 --> 1:11:18.340
of the services will be
provided by the public services

1:11:18.340 --> 1:11:21.180
and some by the private sector.

1:11:21.180 --> 1:11:23.980
But you can't rely only on the
private sector and tell them,

1:11:23.980 --> 1:11:26.420
you do the work on terrorism for us.

1:11:26.420 --> 1:11:31.960
>> We have time for
two more questions.

1:11:31.960 --> 1:11:33.260
Gabi.

1:11:33.260 --> 1:11:34.560
>> Yeah, please.

1:11:34.560 --> 1:11:41.030
>> Yes, are you optimistic or
pessimistic about the future?

1:11:41.030 --> 1:11:43.650
Do you sleep at night?

1:11:43.650 --> 1:11:44.950
>> That's a good question.

1:11:44.950 --> 1:11:46.250
I will tell you when I don't sleep.

1:11:46.250 --> 1:11:49.240
What makes me really troubled.

1:11:49.240 --> 1:11:54.130
Well if you live in Israel as
I do, you must be optimistic.

1:11:54.130 --> 1:11:59.520
Surrounded by enemies from
outside, and if I may even say,

1:11:59.520 --> 1:12:04.400
challenged by political election
results that are not comforting

1:12:04.400 --> 1:12:09.700
to say the least when it comes
to Israeli politics right now.

1:12:09.700 --> 1:12:11.710
You certainly need to be optimistic.

1:12:11.710 --> 1:12:13.960
Otherwise you won't survive.

1:12:13.960 --> 1:12:17.690
When it comes to the
internet and terrorism online,

1:12:17.690 --> 1:12:20.660
I think we should accept
it as a part of our future.

1:12:20.660 --> 1:12:23.020
That is terrorism will
never go away.

1:12:23.020 --> 1:12:25.760
And terrorism online
will never be diminished.

1:12:25.760 --> 1:12:28.720
All we have to do is to realize
that this is one additional arena

1:12:28.720 --> 1:12:30.290
that we will have to fight.

1:12:30.290 --> 1:12:34.540
That we will have to fight
and find better measures.

1:12:34.540 --> 1:12:37.980
And that we will have to play
with some of our civil liberties.

1:12:37.980 --> 1:12:39.340
I hope not too much.

1:12:39.340 --> 1:12:42.890
Now what makes me lose sleep?

1:12:42.890 --> 1:12:46.550
I'll tell you what, and this
is, I didn't show it to you

1:12:46.550 --> 1:12:48.460
because this is really alarming.

1:12:48.460 --> 1:12:49.900
It's not the beheadings.

1:12:49.900 --> 1:12:56.710
And it's not the crucification
and those gruesome videos

1:12:56.710 --> 1:12:59.020
of burning and shooting and so on.

1:12:59.020 --> 1:13:00.710
Targeting children.

1:13:00.710 --> 1:13:03.250
When I look at those,
and I have a collection,

1:13:03.250 --> 1:13:06.470
and I'm afraid I can't
show it to people.

1:13:06.470 --> 1:13:07.770
It's shocking.

1:13:07.770 --> 1:13:11.630
Whatever they do to recruit,
radicalize, and I'm speaking

1:13:11.630 --> 1:13:14.600
about children, not
adults and not youth.

1:13:14.600 --> 1:13:18.350
I'm speaking about children
who are three, four, five, six,

1:13:18.350 --> 1:13:24.230
and using computer games to
desensitize them to the use

1:13:24.230 --> 1:13:26.130
of violence and to killing.

1:13:26.130 --> 1:13:27.710
And then I see the consequences.

1:13:27.710 --> 1:13:30.180
And you can see ISIS
is operating children

1:13:30.180 --> 1:13:32.200
as warriors, as executionists.

1:13:32.200 --> 1:13:35.710
I don't know if you saw the video
of children executing hostages

1:13:35.710 --> 1:13:39.730
and captives and soldiers by ISIS.

1:13:39.730 --> 1:13:45.890
That is really discomforting because
this is the next generation of 9/11.

1:13:45.890 --> 1:13:48.280
This is the future of terrorism.

1:13:48.280 --> 1:13:49.600
And this is really scary.

1:13:49.600 --> 1:13:52.420
I get that they target
very young people.

1:13:52.420 --> 1:13:55.430
Knowing that this is the
next generation of fighters,

1:13:55.430 --> 1:13:59.790
of suicide bombers, of
killers, executioners and so on.

1:13:59.790 --> 1:14:02.660
Well over that I lose sleep.

1:14:05.750 --> 1:14:06.880
>> Mike, can we get
Mike [inaudible]?

1:14:06.880 --> 1:14:08.860
>> Yes Mike.

1:14:08.860 --> 1:14:11.860
>> There are several agencies,
US government agencies

1:14:11.860 --> 1:14:15.870
that try counter messaging
against these terrorists

1:14:15.870 --> 1:14:18.760
in sort of the MUD paradigm.

1:14:18.760 --> 1:14:23.330
But those of us in the general
public who can't, who are interested

1:14:23.330 --> 1:14:27.820
in this subject but can't follow
it because we're not cleared,

1:14:27.820 --> 1:14:31.890
we have no notion of the
effectiveness of states,

1:14:31.890 --> 1:14:37.290
department of states efforts or
DOD's efforts or anybody else.

1:14:37.290 --> 1:14:40.450
What resources should
we use to figure

1:14:40.450 --> 1:14:43.100
out whether this is
doing any good or not?

1:14:43.100 --> 1:14:44.400
>> Thank you.

1:14:44.400 --> 1:14:45.700
Thank you.

1:14:45.700 --> 1:14:48.010
That's an excellent questions and
a perfect one for the conclusion.

1:14:48.010 --> 1:14:52.180
The question was what are the
sources for us, the public,

1:14:52.180 --> 1:14:56.500
to learn about counterterrorism
measures and their success?

1:14:56.500 --> 1:14:59.360
The answer, very simple,
is people like me.

1:14:59.360 --> 1:15:01.000
The academia.

1:15:01.000 --> 1:15:02.990
We can provide the measures.

1:15:02.990 --> 1:15:04.910
We can be the objective ones.

1:15:04.910 --> 1:15:06.210
We can look at data.

1:15:06.210 --> 1:15:09.500
We can look at empirical
evidence and so on.

1:15:09.500 --> 1:15:12.900
You mentioned for example,
and I use only one example,

1:15:12.900 --> 1:15:14.200
the State Department.

1:15:14.200 --> 1:15:17.460
The State Department launched
a counterterrorism campaign

1:15:17.460 --> 1:15:19.440
that I will label as lousy.

1:15:19.440 --> 1:15:20.860
As a waste of money.

1:15:20.860 --> 1:15:22.240
Now why am I saying it?

1:15:22.240 --> 1:15:23.550
Because we studied it.

1:15:23.550 --> 1:15:25.380
And we looked at the impact.

1:15:25.380 --> 1:15:29.770
We know how much money was involved,
how many millions was spent there.

1:15:29.770 --> 1:15:31.420
We looked at the messages.

1:15:31.420 --> 1:15:34.600
We even looked at the
narratives used,

1:15:34.600 --> 1:15:37.630
compared it to what we thought
should be the counter narratives

1:15:37.630 --> 1:15:40.020
based on our study of
terrorist narratives.

1:15:40.020 --> 1:15:43.190
And we looked at the success in
terms of how many people watched it,

1:15:43.190 --> 1:15:47.310
did it, and it didn't have any
effect of reducing recruitment.

1:15:47.310 --> 1:15:51.890
So this is just one example
of how the academic research

1:15:51.890 --> 1:15:54.100
and think tanks, including
the Wilson Center,

1:15:54.100 --> 1:15:58.310
USIP and other academic institutions
in the US, that support studies

1:15:58.310 --> 1:16:02.550
like that, should be those that
provide, I would say, the objective,

1:16:02.550 --> 1:16:08.650
scientific, unbiased measures
of counterterrorism efforts.

1:16:08.650 --> 1:16:11.350
And more than that, they
should also reveal the prices

1:16:11.350 --> 1:16:14.570
that we pay, which
is very important.

1:16:14.570 --> 1:16:19.080
Because I keep saying, we should
always be aware that in order

1:16:19.080 --> 1:16:22.250
to fight terrorism, we should
be very careful not to price,

1:16:22.250 --> 1:16:27.300
not to pay heavier prices in
terms of our civil liberties.

1:16:27.300 --> 1:16:28.720
We must find the compromise.

1:16:28.720 --> 1:16:30.370
And again, this should be done.

1:16:30.370 --> 1:16:34.460
This kind of surveillance, this
kind of measurement, should be done

1:16:34.460 --> 1:16:37.820
by unbiased organizations.

1:16:37.820 --> 1:16:41.300
That could be think tanks,
academic institutions,

1:16:41.300 --> 1:16:42.730
universities and so on.

1:16:42.730 --> 1:16:46.820
>> I want to thank Gabi for coming.

1:16:56.190 --> 1:16:59.840
>> This has been a presentation
of the Library of Congress.

1:16:59.840 --> 1:17:02.200
Visit us as loc.gov.