>> From the Library of
Congress in Washington D.C.
[ Silence ]
>> Welcome, I'm Diana Ingraham.
I'm the Executive Director
here at Hill Center.
Can you hear me in the other room?
[cheers] So, I'm always so curious,
I have to ask, is there anyone here
and also in the other room, who has
never been in the building before?
Raise your hand.
Welcome. Oh my gosh.
Welcome. Please come back.
Look at all of the
materials that we spread out.
Check out our website.
And it's a real gift to have
you all here this evening.
Please take a moment to
turn off you mobile devices.
It is a real pleasure to
partner with the Library
of Congress's American
Folk Life Center.
And it's really amazing
series, "Many Paths to Freedom:
Looking Back, Looking Ahead, at
the Long Civil Rights Movement."
And here we are to
present a screening
of the absolutely beautiful film
that Robin Hamilton has made,
"This Little Light of Mine: The
Legacy of Fannie Lou Hamer."
Followed by the dream event, a
conversation with the divine,
Michelle Martin from NPR.
Does it get any better?
So, please join me in welcoming
the director of the Library
of Congress's American Folk
Life Center, Betsy Peterson.
Welcome.
[ Applause ]
>> Thank you, Diana.
As she said, I am Betsy Peterson.
I'm the Director of the
American Folk Life Center.
And this is in fact, a
program in our 2015 iteration
of the series, "Many
Paths to Freedom."
And we're thrilled to be here at
the Hill Center with all of you,
and all of you in the other room.
I also want to thank a few
more colleagues before we begin
and before we get to our
main event with the film,
"This Little Light of Mine."
But I would like to mention a couple
of other library cosponsors
for this event.
And that would be our
Interpretive Program's office who,
based at the library and who
produce a range of exhibits,
including an exhibit right now
on the Civil Rights Movement,
on the Civil Rights Act of
1964, which is installed
over the Jefferson Building.
And I want to invite all of you
to come over and look at it.
It's been funded by a wonderful
grant from Newman's Own Foundation
and by the History Channel,
and features many rare items,
manuscript, photographs, and videos
from the Civil Rights
History Project collection,
which is part of the
American Folk Life Center.
I also want to thank the
Education Outreach Program,
also a program over the library.
And they are hosting right
now a couple of dozen teachers
who have come from
around the country
for their Summer Teachers'
Institute.
Ah, I think I hear some.
And so I want to welcome all of you.
And as long as we're identifying
ourselves and acknowledging people,
I'd also just like to take a moment
to thank the Frontline Veterans
of the Civil Rights Movement,
and if there are any of --
folks here from that period,
if you'd raise your hand
or raise your hand in the other
room, if you're in the other room.
[ Applause ]
I know I thank you and I know
everyone here thanks you.
We owe so much to you all.
And I hope in the time that
we have Question and Answer
and discussion afterwards,
and if there are any breaks,
I hope you'll take the
time to talk to folks.
As I mentioned, the Civil
Rights History Project is a work
that has been going on at the
American Folk Life Center,
and with our partners, The National
Museum of African American History
and Culture at the Smithsonian,
for over the last five years of so.
It's a project that was
mandated by Congress
and includes oral history
interviews with many veterans
of the Civil Rights Movement
from all over the country.
So I invite you also to look at
those materials that are online.
They're at our center.
Come in, listen, talk to staff.
We would love to tell
you all about it.
And then finally, thank
you to our partners
in crime here at the Hill Center.
Thank you, Diana.
And I also want to thank
Maryann Brownlow [phonetic]
who has been very central in
putting the event together.
Charlotte Oman [phonetic]
and Dimitri Obrien
[phonetic] who's doing some
of the tech and a.v. support.
And so finally, and I am sweating.
Onto our main event.
And it's my pleasure to
introduce Robin Hamilton,
the filmmaker of "This
Little Light of Mine."
Robin is a journalist
and a filmmaker whose
work has taken her all
over the country, around the world.
She was drawn to journalism
while she was at college
at Duke University when she
was writing her senior paper
about the desegregation of
Durham, and it's during that time
that she discovered the history and
story around Mrs. Fannie Lou Hamer.
Post-graduation, Robin has pursued
a career in broadcast journalism
and worked for network
affiliates around the country,
including Florida, New York, Boston,
Massachusetts, D.C. She has an MA
in broadcast journalism from NYU
and an MPA, which I think is Masters
of Public Administration, with
a focus in policy and media
from the John F Kennedy School
of Government at Harvard.
The film, "This Little
Light of Mine:
The Legacy of Fannie Lou
Hamer," is her directorial debut
and we're thrilled to have
her here and the film here.
The moderator and discussant for
the program, after we listen to the
or see the film, is also a
familiar name, I think known to many
of us here in the D.C. area,
Michelle Martin from NPR,
joins us tonight and we're thrilled
that she's able to make time
to participate in this discussion.
Michelle has been a journalist
for over 25 years, first in print
with major newspapers,
television, and now at NPR.
And she came to NPR in 2006
and launched, "Tell Me More,"
a one hour daily NPR news
and talk show that airs
on NPR stations nationwide.
And so we're thrilled
to have her here.
And with that, I'm
-- welcome Michelle.
Welcome Robin.
Take it away.
Thank you.
[ Applause ]
>> Robin Hamilton:
Thank you so much.
I'm still just blown away to see so
many people here to watch this film.
Some of you may know of Mrs.
Hamer and some of you may not.
She was a hero of mine,
even though I never met her.
I learned about her in school and
I just -- I fell in love with her.
And for me, this project really was
a passion project because I wanted
to pay tribute to a woman who
contributed so much to our history
and many people don't realize
what kind of contribution
and sacrifice that she made.
So, I hope you all enjoy it.
I hope you at least get
a little bit of a taste,
a glimpse of just how
wonderful this woman was
and I think her legacy
still lives on.
And I hope you get to see
a little bit of what I saw
when I was learning about
her as I was doing this film.
So, without further ado,
please bear with us.
We're going to do a
little switcheroo
and then we'll begin the show.
Thank you.
[ Applause ]
>> Fannie Lou Hamer: I've heard
several comments from people
that was talking about
with the people,
for the people, and by the people.
Being a black woman
from Mississippi,
I've learned that long
ago, that's not true.
It's whip the hand [inaudible],
[inaudible] a hand [inaudible],
buy a hand [inaudible].
But we going to change that baby.
We want to register, to
become first class citizens.
>> We got to know each other,
you know, through the workshop
and Fannie Lou Hamer just emerged.
>> I had heard of Mrs.
Hamer and people were
in awe of her, loved her.
>> Fannie Lou Hamer: Our
lives be threatened daily.
>> Obviously, the lynch pin
of the changes in the rules
of the Democratic National
Convention reside
in the testimony of Mrs. Hamer.
>> They knew they couldn't
shut up Martin Luther King.
They weren't paying any attention
to who this woman might be.
And [inaudible], she was
going to be more than Martin.
>> Fannie Lou Hamer: And if the
Freedom Democratic [inaudible] is
not defeated now, I
question America.
>> Mrs. Hamer still emerges
to become a spokesperson
for so many people who had been
denied the right to participate
in the American political system.
>> Fannie Lou Hamer:
Is this America?
The land of the free and
the home of the brave?
[ Music ]
>> Michelle Martin: Hooray,
well Robin, thank you.
>> Robin Hamilton: Thank you.
>> Michelle Martin:
Thank you for the film.
>> Robin Hamilton: Oh,
it was my pleasure.
>> Michelle Martin: How
many of you actually knew
about Fannie Lou Hamer
before you came here?
Most of the people here?
What about in the next room?
Did you all know about her?
Okay?
>> Robin Hamilton: Oh good.
>> Michelle Martin: You're
teachers, so you should.
Thank you.
I'm greatly relieved.
But if you don't mind, you're
putting yourself on the spot,
any of you didn't know
that much about her?
Did you know -- you didn't
know anything about her?
Or did you know anything
about her, or a little,
tiny [inaudible] a bit about her?
Robin, what about you?
Is there something about her
that just captured your spirit?
And if so, what was it?
>> Robin Hamilton: I think
-- well first of all,
a shout out to the teachers
because I love that they're teaching
and spreading the word about
her, because I honestly --
I didn't know about her
until I was in college.
And what struck me--
>> Michelle Martin:
You were in college?
>> Robin Hamilton:
When I was in college.
>> Michelle Martin: Which
is kind of a bummer.
>> Robin Hamilton: Yes.
And what was amazing about her was,
you have this -- I mean you saw it.
This strong, real, raw woman who
was fearless and she didn't care
about the trappings, the
appearance, what she sounded like.
She was about truth and
getting things done.
And that's what really stuck
with me was her fearlessness
and her strength.
>> Michelle Martin: I'm
going to disagree with you.
I think she did care
about appearances
because you know her
hair was always done.
It was always done.
>> Robin Hamilton: That is true.
>> Michelle Martin: So
I think she did care.
>> Robin Hamilton: That is true.
>> Michelle Martin:
That hair was tight.
I think she did care.
>> Robin Hamilton: That's true.
But I guess in that way though,
there was a certain appearance
that a lot of people in the
Civil Rights movement had
in terms of being very polished.
The tailored suits and you
know, speaking in a certain way,
and she didn't have any of that.
So, yes so, I think that's --
she didn't have the airs that
I think a lot of people had.
>> Michelle Martin:
Why did you decide
to make this film when you did?
As you know, you didn't have the
benefit of having your subject
around for you to interview.
>> Robin Hamilton: Right.
>> Michelle Martin: And you to kind
of piece it in from those who --
the sources that were available.
Why did you feel such an
urgency to make this film?
>> Robin Hamilton: I wanted to do
this because for several reasons.
One is, when I first learned
about her in college, I loved her.
And I didn't really know
what to do with that.
So I really let it go, but she
-- her spirit, this sounds weird,
but her spirit really followed me.
And when I went to Boston and I was
working, this was ten years ago,
and the Democratic National
Convention was being held there.
And there was an event honoring her.
The 40th anniversary
of that testimony.
And I was meeting all these people
who knew her, had worked with her,
and I just wanted to
stay in touch with them.
So I did that and as the years
went on, people were passing away.
And so I just thought, "I need
to do something about her now,
because if I don't, it may be
even harder to tell her story."
So with the anniversary of the
Voting Rights Act, I just said,
"I need to do this and
I need to do it now."
>> Michelle Martin: Was there
something that you learned
in the course of reporting the film
that you had not known yourself.
You had kind of studied her life
when you encountered her in college,
but is there something that when
you kind of were face to face
with the people who really
knew her, just gripped you?
>> Robin Hamilton: I think it was --
I had always known how
strong she way, but I --
there's something about
listening to people talk
about what life was
really, really like.
So, she had this moment
on the National Stage during the
Democratic National Convention,
but she also had to go back
home and face the death threats,
and keep the ball rolling
with nothing.
And I think to have that
fortitude of spirit,
that really stuck with me.
When I talked to people -- because
a number of those people stayed
in Mississippi who I interviewed.
They had been with her
when she was there.
They went back with her.
And it was nonstop.
And there's something to be
said for continuing that fight
when all the cameras are
gone and the noise is gone,
but you're facing threats every day.
>> Michelle Martin: Well it's true.
I mean, one of the things
that's interesting to me,
we forget that you know,
Rosa Parks moved to Michigan
because of the death threats.
I mean she and her husband
both lost their jobs.
And so you know, being faced with
death threats, they were you know,
they moved to Michigan
to save their lives.
Certainly nobody would fault
them you know, for that,
but that she stayed and she
stayed for the rest of her life.
Why her? You know, one of the
things I was interested in,
in the interviews is that many
people would say things about her.
They'd say, "I imagined
that she did this.
I think that she did that."
Do we really know why her?
Why was she who she was?
>> Robin Hamilton: You
know, I think some of it has
to do with how she was raised.
I did a lot of reading.
I read several books.
The one by Kay Mills,
which was very, very good.
[Inaudible]
>> Michelle Martin:
It's a biography,
"This Little Light of Mine."
>> Robin Hamilton: That's right.
Yes, yes, exactly.
And she was wonderful.
And then I also read "For
Freedom's Sake" by Kai Lee,
a professor from the
University of Georgia.
And it -- both of those
books give an in depth look.
Or I shouldn't say, in depth,
but they open a door
into how she was raised.
And her mother, Louella Townsend,
was a very, strong woman.
And I think she--
>> Michelle Martin: Twenty kids?
>> Robin Hamilton: Yes.
>> Michelle Martin: She had to be.
>> Robin Hamilton: Twenty kids.
I know. How is that possible?
I know, 20 kids.
That alone, right?
>> Michelle Martin: I know she made
a point of saying, "Same marriage."
[Inaudible]
>> Robin Hamilton: Yes.
>> Michelle Martin: Same marriage.
She was like, "That's
where I got it."
>> Robin Hamilton: That's right.
That's right.
>> Michelle Martin: Hey.
>> Robin Hamilton: And
the fact that they had
to deal with incredible abuse.
And one of the things that happened
to them was they had been --
they had lived on a plantation,
Mrs. Hamer and all of her siblings.
And her mother and father
had actually made enough
to start building a
life of their own.
So they had earned enough to buy
a cow and some chickens and a pig.
And they thought, "This
is our ticket to freedom."
And apparently, the neighbors
started to hear this.
The white neighbors.
And one day, they went on a
family trip to visit relatives.
Came back and apparently a local
white farmer had filled the feed
with Paris Green, an insecticide.
And killed off all of their stock.
And she was crushed.
And she saw what that
did to her father,
but she said her mother said,
"We're going to keep going.
We're going to keep going.
We're going to keep going.
We're going to keep going."
And I think that's where
her resilience came from.
From that debilitating
situation, she kept going.
>> Michelle Martin: And yet you
know, you allude to this in the film
and you weren't able to obviously
with the time that you had,
kind of fully amplify all this.
I mean being sterilized
without your consent.
And as I understand the
story, she only found about it
because she overheard
people in the Marlow house--
>> Robin Hamilton: That's right.
>> Michelle Martin:
-talking about it.
What effect do you
think that had on her?
In fact, I think Dorothy and
Vergie [phonetic] where adopted.
>> Robin Hamilton: That's right.
>> Michelle Martin: I
mean they were adopted.
I mean, not unusual.
I mean a lot of us, you know,
are people who have raised kids
that they didn't even give birth to.
So it's not that she
didn't love them.
>> Robin Hamilton: Of course.
>> Michelle Martin: She
didn't love them any less.
>> Robin Hamilton: Yes.
>> Michelle Martin: But she was
not able to give birth to children
with her husband and she
would have liked to have done.
>> Robin Hamilton: Yes.
>> Michelle Martin: Because
she had been sterilized
without her knowledge
and without her consent,
and I wonder what effect do
you think that had on her.
Vergie talked a little
bit about it in the film.
What do you sense there?
>> Robin Hamilton: From what I read,
and even from talking to Vergie,
I think it was the thing that
pushed her over the limit.
I think to hear about you know,
something that had been done to you
without your knowledge, I think that
is what pushed her over the edge
because shortly thereafter was when
one of her neighbors had told her
about the SNCC activists
who had come in
and were pushing for
voter registration.
So that's when she said,
"I'm going to do this."
And she was even a little
nervous to do it then,
but it was the same year she found
out was the same year she decided
to go and try to register to vote.
>> Michelle Martin: And she
was in her mid-40s, right--
>> Robin Hamilton: That's right.
>> Michelle Martin: -when
she started her activism?
I think a lot of us think
of the movement as being
like the young people, you know?
We see those famous
images of the young people
on the children's campaign
and the [inaudible].
>> Robin Hamilton: Right.
>> Michelle Martin: But
she was in her mid-40s
when she became you
know, an activist.
>> Robin Hamilton: Right.
>> Michelle Martin:
And I [inaudible] what your
thoughts are about that?
I mean that you know, the fact
that you know, when you get --
you're fired from your
job in that world,
you don't just get
fired from your job.
You know, everybody
within miles around knows
and you have to leave your house.
And you know.
I'm just sort of wondering what
your thoughts are about that?
I mean the fact that she was
in her mid-40s at the time--
>> Robin Hamilton: Right.
>> Michelle Martin:
-that she undertook this.
And what do you think that meant?
>> Robin Hamilton: I just think
it speaks to her fearlessness,
because despite everything
she went through, it --
how easy would it have been to
just crawl in a hole and die
or just kind of -- just stop trying.
I mean, and the fact that she was
you know, as they say, middle aged
and there were some people who
didn't even want to help her
because they were worried
about their jobs
and jeopardizing their livelihood.
I just think it speaks
to her spirit.
I think it speaks to again,
her fearlessness to be
at this stage in her life.
It was almost as if she just
said, "It's either this or die."
You know?
>> Michelle Martin: Why do you think
it is that she is not as well-known,
I feel safe in saying, as some of
the other leaders of the period?
I mean I think you know,
the calendar, right?
You know, who's in
the calendar, right?
>> Robin Hamilton: Right, right.
>> Michelle Martin: Whose
picture gets in the calendar?
>> Robin Hamilton: Yes, yes.
>> Michelle Martin: Why
do you think that is?
I'm wondering is it because partly
because what happened to her was
so demeaning that people don't
want to think about the fact
that she was you know -- I mean
it's the kind of thing that now --
you know, now like with
increasingly graphic movies, right,
like "Twelve Years a Slave"
when people are exposed
to like the brutality, the
demeaningness, the disgusting,
grotesqueness and the
pettiness of the ways
that people found to oppress people.
But the fact that these jailers
forced black prisoners to beat her,
and forced somebody who clearly had
a sense of dignity about herself
to be undressed in their presence.
And we don't even know the full
extent of what may have occurred--
>> Robin Hamilton: That's right.
>> Michelle Martin: -because
you know, people didn't talk
about things like that back then.
Why do think it is that
she's not as well-known?
I think she is one of the
unsung heroes of the --
heroines of the movement even though
singing ironically was her thing,
you know?
Why do you think that is?
>> Robin Hamilton: I think
some of it does have to do
with what exactly what
you just said.
I think there is something very
uncomfortable when you have to look
at the reality of what
happened to her.
It's very ugly and it's very
painful to think about that.
And I also think, she didn't
have necessarily the pedigree
that a lot of people expected.
For example, when I have been
doing reading about Rosa Parks
for example, you know, she was
an educated, well-spoken woman
who had been really selected to
make her stand about the bus.
And I hadn't realized this until
much later, but that the woman --
the original woman, and
I'm sure you know this too,
who was going to do
that, was a young woman
who had gotten pregnant
out of wedlock.
And they didn't think
she would be a good image
for the Civil Rights Movement.
So they kind of pushed her aside and
had another woman who fit the role
and had her be the one take
charge and now she's in the books
and she's -- and she's wonderful.
Don't get me wrong.
I'm not disparaging
Rosa Parks by any means,
but I think there is a certain type
of look and presence and demeanor.
And also Mrs. Hamer was
fearless and very outspoken.
And in my research, one of
the things that people said,
was she wasn't going to
be beholden to anyone.
So if you pissed her off, she
was going to tell you that,
you know, you pissed her off.
And so I think, if you're one
of those people that ruffles
in the feathers, you
do get pushed aside.
And--
>> Michelle Martin: You know,
it's to that point though,
it strikes me that
she was not pleased
with the compromise
that was arrived at.
>> Robin Hamilton: Oh right.
>> Michelle Martin: For the
'64 Democratic Convention.
>> Robin Hamilton: Right.
>> Michelle Martin: Did you
-- she did not agree with it.
>> Robin Hamilton: Absolutely.
>> Michelle Martin: You want to
talk a little bit about that?
I mean obviously there are a lot of
things you couldn't fit in the film.
>> Robin Hamilton: Yes, yes.
Yes, and that was -- one of her
famous quotes is, well you know,
"We didn't get here
for two lousy seats."
And I think her attitude
was, "It's all or nothing."
And you know, there are people
who go back and forth and say,
sometimes you have to give
a little to take a little,
and you have to compromise, but
I think her attitude is or was,
"You know, we're compromising
our lives every day.
You know, I have to go home
and have death threats leveled
at me and my family.
I can't get a job because of this.
I don't have time to compromise."
I think she thought
it was a bogus offer.
And I also think she resented the
fact that this decision was made
without her knowledge of it.
So, Dr. King and several others had
been privy to some of the talks,
but I think ultimately the decision
was made without her in the room.
And--
>> Michelle Martin: Were
any women in the room?
>> Robin Hamilton: I don't think so.
I don't think so.
>> Michelle Martin: No comment.
>> Robin Hamilton: Right.
>> Michelle Martin: So, let's
open it up to conversation
and to questions you
know, and comments.
And we're all grownups, so you
don't have to ask a fake question.
Just keep it tight so that
everybody can participate.
But one final thought
from you if you would?
You know, tomorrow
is the anniversary
of the signing the
Voting Rights Act.
And it's a -- you're a journalist
so I'm not going to ask you
to give too many for
-- unless you want to.
>> Robin Hamilton: Yes [inaudible].
>> Michelle Martin: But you know,
we are in an interesting historical
moment when many people feel
that the -- I think it's fair to
say, you know, accurately reporting,
not editorializing, that many
people feel that we are in a moment
when many of the things that
Fannie Lou Hamer fought for,
are now being compromised by
people who either don't believe
that these laws were necessary,
never agreed with them,
or think they no longer are.
>> Robin Hamilton: Right.
>> Michelle Martin:
And I'd like to know
if you have any thoughts about that.
>> Robin Hamilton: That's right.
I think she would be -- well, I
think about her and I think it's
on one hand appalling to see some
of the rollbacks that are happening.
But I think there's also a part of
me in doing this film that feels
like you know, we all
have to stay vigilant
in some way, shape, or form.
We all have to continue to move
forward in some way, shape,
or form to stay informed, aware,
to do the right thing in terms
of not letting the powers that be,
so to speak, make things happen.
>> Michelle Martin: But
what does it mean though?
I mean does it mean that she failed?
>> Robin Hamilton: No, I don't
think it means that she failed
because I think there are -- people
are aware of what is happening.
And it's interesting that you ask
that because Dr. Macklemore
[phonetic], when I interviewed him,
I asked him this because
when I was interviewing him,
it was right around the time that
the Supreme Court had decided
to strike down parts of
the Voting Rights Act.
And I said, "Should
we be concerned?"
And he said, "No, because we
have come too far to go back."
He said, "This is alarming, but
we're too far to let this go back."
So he said, "Yes, this is a problem.
This is troubling.
But we're not going
back to where we were."
So I don't think she failed.
>> Michelle Martin: Let's
hear from all of you.
And we have some -- who's the
keeper of the microphone there?
So you are the keeper of it?
Well why don't we come here
and then let's work backwards,
and then we'll slip
over to this side?
How does that work?
>> Okay.
>> Michelle Martin: Do you
want to do it that way?
>> Yes.
>> Michelle Martin: Oh you're there?
Okay, you're there.
Okay go it.
I didn't get it.
>> That's okay.
>> Michelle Martin: Alright,
then we'll start there
and move forward, how's that?
>> Sure, okay.
>> Michelle Martin: [Inaudible]
better message anyway [inaudible]?
>> Yes [inaudible].
I have one quick question about
mainstream feminism and race.
How Fannie Lou Hamer is
perceived in her time with respect
to mainstream feminist movements
and now looking back on her legacy?
I don't hear a lot of talk about --
well, I don't want to
editorialize either but I want
to hear your thoughts about how
they intersect or how they diverge
in terms of race and feminism.
>> Michelle Martin: I
think he's asking you.
I'm looking [inaudible].
>> Robin Hamilton: No, that's
a really good question.
I have to really think about it
because there's always been --
there's been some synergy,
but also some tension
in terms of race and feminism.
Is that correct?
Is that what you're -- yes I do.
What's interesting was, she
became active after everything
that happened at the
Democratic National Convention.
She became active with the
National Women's Political Caucus.
And so she started working
with other women, white women,
but there was a bit of
a break in terms of --
she was still a southern
woman and so she believed
in supporting her husband in a way
that made some women from the north,
some white women, bristle.
She also wasn't prochoice.
She spoke out against abortion and
so I think that ruffled a number
of -- a lot of women
who were with NOW.
And so, and I think that all
stems from her being sterilized.
I think that was a product
of her circumstance.
And people try to make
that an issue,
but I think it was all
from what happened.
So it's a -- it was a
complicated relationship.
Ultimately I think there is an
allegiance, but it was difficult.
>> Michelle Martin: Man over here.
Can we -- oh.
Where are you going next?
This right here.
This person here, sir.
[ Inaudible audience response ]
Good. Go ahead, take the
mic because we're streaming.
>> This is a piggyback
on his comment
and what you alluded to earlier.
Not just race and feminism, but
image and colorism as it relates
to women of color, and who gets to
be the spokesperson and who doesn't.
And you alluded to it when
you talked about Rosa Parks.
Yes, and who had done it first
and versus -- to expand on that,
the image and colorism in
terms of who allowed to be --
who's selected to be a spokesperson
for those progressive issues.
>> Michelle Martin: I think that --
there's a question
right in front of you.
[Inaudible] right in
front of you, sir.
Go ahead.
>> How did you decide whom to
interview, which interviews
to include in the movie, and
is there anybody still alive
that you wish you had
interviewed but you didn't?
>> Robin Hamilton: Oh okay.
No, that's a good question.
So I decided, the way I decided,
I had just gone through a lot
of the people in the
books that I had read.
And some were very big names
and some were smaller names.
And I wasn't really having a lot
of luck with some of the big names,
and also people who had
already been featured in a lot
of specials about Freedom Summer.
And so I reached out to Dr.
Macklemore and Reverend King
and Dorie Ladner, because
they had --
they were in Mississippi and
they were deeply entrenched
in Mississippi.
And I liked the fact that they
had worked closely with her.
And then when I reached
out to Heather Booth,
I had done my research and I saw
that picture of her, which I loved,
and we just got through talking
and she was a wonderful person.
Just as a young, Caucasian
woman coming from the north,
to put herself in that
situation, I was fascinated.
And I wanted to see how
she felt with Mrs. Hamer.
And then her daughter of course,
I just really wanted to get
that very personal perspective.
The one person that I really wish
I had -- could have talked to,
there were a number of people,
but one who really stuck
with me was this woman named
Eunita Blackwell [phonetic],
and she was right there
with Mrs. Hamer.
They were as thick as thieves.
She eventually became mayor of
a small town in Mississippi.
And they were best friends.
And I listened to recordings
of her and to hear her talk
about what they laughed about
and what they ate and --
but unfortunately, she has
Alzheimer's now and just was not
in a good place to speak.
But if I could have, I would have
loved to have interviewed her.
>> Michelle Martin: Here's
some questions from--
>> Robin Hamilton: Yes.
>> Michelle Martin: -the other
room that ask a lot about --
we haven't forgotten you over here.
I'm just going to switch it up a
little bit and say a couple of --
a lot of people would like
to know what your plans are
for distribution?
>> Robin Hamilton: Oh.
>> Michelle Martin: Like
are you going to syndicate?
Are you going to do film festivals?
>> Robin Hamilton: Oh, thank you.
That's so nice to ask.
So yes. I am looking
for distributions.
So at this point, I'm talking
to distributors and I've --
the goal is to have it
distributed on DVD and then
to have it on television.
The irony is I had done all the
front end work, the research,
the interviews, the production,
which has been just a dream,
and the reason why I
did it with nothing was
because I couldn't really
knock down the doors of --
even though I worked in TV, I
couldn't knock down the doors
of like the powers that be.
So I never would have
been able to make this,
because I didn't know
the right people.
So then to be doing the distribution
angle, that's where you have
to really kind of maneuver
through all the nonsense.
So that's what I'm
trying to do right now.
>> Michelle Martin: Well
the length though is kind
of hard isn't it, for
theatrical release?
>> Robin Hamilton: Yes.
>> Michelle Martin: I mean, it
would need to be longer, right?
>> Robin Hamilton: Yes,
so it won't be theatrical.
It's really going to be
for TV and for classrooms.
I really do want it to be
in universities and schools.
>> Michelle Martin: Well this
is one -- another person says,
"My knowledge of Mrs. Hamer did
not come from teachings in school.
I learned of Mrs. Hamer after
college from personal readings."
It says, "Your work has served
to increase my knowledge
and appreciation for her struggle
and how you think she would
perceive the current cases
of police brutality
against black people
and the Supreme Court's erosion
of the Voting Rights Act?"
You started to talk about
that but what about that?
>> Robin Hamilton: Yes, I
think she'd be appalled.
I mean I think she would be appalled
and I think she would
be deeply saddened.
And I say that because I mean
for obvious reasons, but also,
there were so many things I
couldn't put in the film but one
of the things that she
did after she came back,
what she was constantly fighting
against police brutality.
And there was one woman who
-- she was a track star,
a high school girl, who
was shot in the neck
in front of a grocery store.
And this was a year --
this was actually right
after the Voting Rights
Act had been passed.
And so there was a push
for voting registration.
And it happened in
Mrs. Hamer's town.
And Mrs. Hamer became
a huge advocate,
fighting against police
brutality, but was also the thing
that really wore her down.
She had bouts of exhaustion,
and that happened shortly
after this situation because
I think it's crazy to think
that this is what happens to the --
when you're in the
hands of the people
who are supposed to protect you.
I think she's be appalled.
>> Michelle Martin: Are there
questions here in the audience?
And we'll go here, and then
we'll start over this way.
We'll make a U-turn.
>> [Inaudible] very quick.
I'm an 82 year old retired
colonel from the army.
I was embarrassed that I never
heard of [inaudible] until 2008.
Yet May 10th is [inaudible]
Day in Washington since 1975.
Her life contrasts with Hamer.
For 25 years, both of
them were activists.
[Inaudible] was a feminist,
a Civil Rights leader.
She was a Martin Luther
King leader, a mentor.
And yet, we don't hear about her.
I wonder if it's because
she was a republican.
I wonder if it's because in 1957,
she supported President
Eisenhower's Civil Rights Act,
which was the first voting rights
act since 1866, which was watered
down by President Johnson.
So I have a project called
the [inaudible] project
and I really need to investigate
why she seems to be lost.
You might comment on it.
>> Michelle Martin:
Alright [inaudible].
>> Robin Hamilton: No,
that's good to know
because we had spoken
earlier, Mr. White and I,
and I didn't know her either.
And I think it speaks to the
point of there are so many women,
men and woman, who did so many
great things and we just don't know
about them and their
sacrifices have been tremendous.
So I think it's great that
you're working on that project.
>> I have a comment and a question.
First, I'd like to say good
evening and thank you for your work.
>> Robin Hamilton: Oh thank you.
>> I appreciate that.
Thank you to the Hill Center for
the opportunity to view the film.
My comment is, there's been a
lot of talk about putting a woman
on the $20 bill, and I don't know
how many of you agree with me,
but I think that Ms. Hamer
would be an excellent selection.
[applause] And my question
to you ma'am is about,
how long did it take you
to actually make the film
and what was your budget like?
And the last question would be, do
you have any other documentaries
that you're working on at this time?
Thank you.
>> Robin Hamilton: Oh, thank you.
I -- so I had been researching her
years, but I gave myself one year,
I'm sure Michelle can appreciate
this, deadlines are sacred,
and so my attitude was --
I'd met too many people who said
they were going to do documentaries
and it just kind of
went on and on and on.
And I said, "I'm going
to give myself one year."
And I had no budget.
I had nothing.
So, for whatever reason,
divine intervention,
I had applied for a
number of grants,
had gotten rejected multiple
times, with the one exception
of a $5,000 grant from
the Sam Rubin Foundation.
And they are a foundation that's
committed to justice and peace,
and the woman who runs it or
ran it, she's how retired,
was a big fan of Mrs. Hamer.
And that kind of helped
get me started.
But I'm also a freelance journalist,
so I just basically like hoarded
by little kibbles and bit
and peanuts together
and got that together.
And then I would do
things like, for example,
Freedom Summer celebrated their
50th anniversary last year.
And so I went down there and
just went to their little event,
and Judge Linda Davis who is
back there, was kind enough --
she was actually one
of the volunteers --
she was a student back at the time,
and went back for the reunion.
And I -- she was wonderful to me.
In the booklet, there were pictures
that people had when
they participated.
And she had pictures in
the book and I said, "Hey,
can I use some of those?"
And so I was kind of doing
stuff like that to you know --
she was very kind to
let me use them.
I had to use -- I went
to Tougaloo College
where they have her archives.
And they were wonderful to me.
They let me use some of her photos
at an incredible discounted rate.
And so it sounds so like unglamorous
to talk about like photos
and discounts and stuff like that,
but that's what you have to do
when you don't have a budget.
So I basically just kind
of had to hustle that way.
When you don't have a budget,
you have to get really creative.
>> Michelle Martin: You know, it's
always hard to prove a negative.
It's my understanding
that Kay Mills,
it took her seven years
to get that biography--
>> Robin Hamilton:
Oh, did it really?
[Inaudible]
>> Michelle Martin: -of
Fannie Lou Hamer published.
>> Robin Hamilton: Wow.
>> Michelle Martin: Because at
the time, she started that book,
people said, you know,
nobody cares about that.
>> Robin Hamilton: Yes, yes.
>> Michelle Martin: You know?
Nobody -- I guess somebody does.
>> Robin Hamilton: Right, right.
>> Michelle Martin:
Hello overflow people.
Another question?
>> Yes, I think part of [inaudible].
>> Michelle Martin: Oh yes,
mic, mic -- where's your mic?
>> Robin Hamilton: Oh, the works?
>> Michelle Martin:
Oh, the works, yes.
>> Robin Hamilton: You know what?
At this point, I have a couple of
ideas but I don't have anything --
I'm not diving [inaudible].
Yes, I don't have anything
immediate.
>> Michelle Martin: A question
from the other room is,
"What do you hope the
film accomplishes,
other than to educate the
public about Fannie Lou Hamer?"
>> Robin Hamilton: Well, I hope
the film offers a, you know,
a piece of inspiration about
what we all are capable of doing.
I think that's one of the
things that stayed with me.
Even when I was doing this film,
or even when I learned about her
in college, when I would
have moments of wallowing
and dealing with minutia.
And it sounds corny but
I would think about her
and I would just think, "God, I
mean, what am I complaining for?"
You know, she's the type of woman
that makes you want
to be a better person.
And so I hope by exposing you to
this film, just whatever it may be,
I hope it will be a
reminder of what you can do.
Because I think she inspired
that in a lot of people.
>> Michelle Martin: Another
dimension that someone pointed
out is are you aware that she
spoke at the White House conference
on food, nutrition,
and health in 1969?
The anti-poverty and food
assistance programs that became law,
were part of the change
that she spoke about.
Let's see.
She said on stage at the
conference of 5,000, she said,
"Don't you dis Mississippi.
At least you know where you stand."
[laughter] No, but the writer
-- the questioner asked --
raises a really interesting
point about she was --
you know, we talked about like why
don't more people know about her,
and so part of me wonders -- she
was a woman and people weren't
that interested in, you know,
let's just be honest with it,
that the women leaders
after a certain point.
But also, she was rural, right?
>> Robin Hamilton: Yes.
>> Michelle Martin: And that
she was really connected
to -- things would happen.
It would take days to find out
that things were happening.
>> Robin Hamilton: That's right.
>> Michelle Martin: But her
connection to things like food.
>> Robin Hamilton: That's right.
>> Michelle Martin: Right?
One of her projects was
to start the Pig Bank.
Remember that?
>> Robin Hamilton: That's right.
Yes.
>> Michelle Martin: [Inaudible] we
talked about the Pig Bank that she--
>> Robin Hamilton: Yes.
That's right, the Pig Bank.
>> Michelle Martin: That
she was really into food.
>> Robin Hamilton: That's right.
>> Michelle Martin: You know,
>> Robin Hamilton: That's right.
Because she said there are
too many people struggling.
And she said black
and white children
who are going hungry in Mississippi.
And there's no reason for it.
So she had created the
Pig Bank, the Pig Farm,
which was basically you know,
you have a bunch of pigs,
they have babies, and
you give them off
so that people can feed each other.
And initially, it started
with very good intentions.
But the problem is that it
wasn't managed very well
because people were
supposed to buy into it,
to contribute in some small way.
And a lot of people didn't
have any money to contribute,
but Mrs. Hamer would
give the pigs anyway.
And so it just couldn't
sustain itself.
So, I think that was one of
the reasons why it did fail,
but she was very, very forward
thinking in terms of fighting
for anti-poverty and
anti-hunger initiatives.
>> Michelle Martin: Let's see.
Another person says, please
encourage people to always vote.
>> Robin Hamilton: Right.
>> Michelle Martin: In order
to honor her contribution
to an equal society.
Please vote, even if it's
necessary to write it.
She sacrificed too much
for people to not vote.
>> Robin Hamilton: Yes.
>> Michelle Martin:
Well, I'm sure people --
doesn't that frustrate you though?
I have to be honest that --
what do we think about that?
I mean the fact that something like
43% of people like in a good year,
we have you know, under
50% of the population.
The eligible population, right?
So, what do we think about that?
What do we -- what
do we make of that?
>> Robin Hamilton: I don't
even know what to make of that.
I really don't.
I mean, not only because of her
history, but also around the world,
I mean there are people
who are still dying
who don't have the opportunity.
Women who don't have
the right to vote.
I don't understand it.
I really don't.
>> Michelle Martin:
Another questioner asks,
"Has the film been
shown in Mississippi?
If so, where?
And what has been the reaction?"
And this is from a person who
signs, "A Mississippi [inaudible]."
>> Robin Hamilton: Oh, okay.
That's very nice.
Actually, I haven't shown
it in Mississippi yet.
I'd like to.
So I'd like to schedule
a screening with them,
especially with the Hamer Institute.
They were wonderful to me.
>> Michelle Martin: Which is where?
>> Robin Hamilton: Which
is actually, I'm sorry,
in Jackson at Jackson
State University.
And Dr. Macklemore was the
founder of the Hamer Institute.
He used to teach at Jackson State.
But no, I haven't done
anything with them yet.
Actually they rejected
me multiple times
when I was trying to
get the film made.
So, I wasn't exactly in a rush, but
I -- to show it there, but I will.
I will be showing it there.
>> Michelle Martin: Well, you know,
sometimes, no wine before its time.
>> Robin Hamilton: That's right.
>> Michelle Martin: More questions.
We have time for I think two more.
I think we have time for two more?
>> Did she work with Bob Moses?
>> Robin Hamilton: Absolutely, yes.
Yes she did.
She did. And I had actually
tried to reach Bob Moses,
but he had been very busy with
Freedom Summer activities,
so unfortunately I wasn't
able to connect with him.
But he was great.
He was really great.
Just when I met him during the
anniversary of Freedom Summer.
>> So, I want to see if I can
get you to comment on something
that I've wondered
about for some time now.
And I think I see it
coming out of the movie.
And this gentleman in the front
who talked about [inaudible],
I think it goes to what
I want to see you comment
on which is basically, was
there some sense of classism
within the African
American community?
For instance, people like
[inaudible] or Daisy Bates
for instance, Ella Baker, these
were college educated women.
And of course, Mrs. Hamer was not.
And in the case of
[inaudible], she also seemed --
you know, she produces the
"Ten Things a Negro Must Do,"
it was rejected by most African
Americans as condescending.
And elitist.
And so I'm wondering--
>> Michelle Martin: Well
what were some of the ten?
Were there ten or were there five?
>> Twelve.
>> I think it was--
>> Michelle Martin: There were 12.
>> It was 12.
>> Michelle Martin: This
gentleman said there were 12.
>> "Twelve Things the
Negro Must Do for Himself."
Actually, she said it's for himself.
>> Michelle Martin: Well
what were some of the 12?
>> Well she talks about he
must keep his home clean.
And of course, we accept that.
And he must live a life
that is so acceptable
that others would find him
worthy of [inaudible], so forth.
But she said some other
things like he must do
for himself, which
we can all accept.
And she goes through and quotes,
I think the book of Deuteronomy
and talks about that a
Negro must be self-reliant.
She really a disciple of Kelly
Miller and Booker T. Washington.
>> Michelle Martin:
Which is a good one.
The Negro must learn to
dress more appropriately
for work and for leisure.
How are we doing?
Are we doing okay?
>> Robin Hamilton: Yes.
>> But can I get you to
comment on this on that note?
>> Robin Hamilton: Sure.
>> Is there in Ms. Hamer's case,
because I've always had this
suspicion, is there some sense
that among the black intelligencia
[phonetic] so to speak,
that this was a grass roots effort
by an uneducated woman so to speak,
who did not fit this [inaudible].
>> Michelle Martin: Who are we
speaking about here in that sense?
>> I'm thinking about the regular
Civil Rights leaders of the day.
You know, aside from white
skin privilege of course,
the benefits of light
skin privilege.
>> Michelle Martin:
Alright, we got you.
We got you.
We have one more over there
and then we're going to--
>> Robin Hamilton: Okay.
>> Michelle Martin: -ask Robin
to give us a closing thought.
Your thoughts about that.
>> Robin Hamilton: Well I absolutely
do think there was some classism
and elitism.
There were definitely people who
said they wouldn't share the stage
with Mrs. Hamer because they
didn't like how she talked.
They didn't like how she sounded.
There were people, Roy Wilkins,
in an interview actually said,
"That big woman needs to sit down."
So, yes. There was.
And it makes me angry just
to think about that, "What?
You don't think she
has something to say?
Really?" So there absolutely
was a lot of classism
and what's interesting is
you mentioned this woman
[inaudible] Burroughs.
Nannie Burroughs
>> Michelle Martin:
Nannie Burroughs.
>> Robin Hamilton: Nannie Burroughs.
And you know, Mrs. Hamer's idea was
the same in terms of self-reliance.
She -- with what she had, she did
put herself together with her hair
and fine, she wasn't wearing a suit,
but she had a perfectly
ironed housedress.
And she did believe in self-reliance
which was why she created the
Pig Farm, which was why she tried
to create other opportunities
for people who were poor.
So, the ideas are the same and I
do think that people got muddled
in the whole issue of
classism, absolutely.
[ Inaudible audience response ]
>> Just a curious note, in
the credits, you list the FBI.
What was that about?
>> Robin Hamilton: The FBI
provided those photos of Mrs. Hamer
after she had been
beaten in the Winona jail.
So those were -- that was from her
-- the investigation from that.
>> Michelle Martin: Complex--
>> Robin Hamilton: Yes.
>> Michelle Martin: -story.
Well thank you Robin.
I wanted to ask you if you would
just give us a closing thought,
perhaps a take away?
A number of the questions
actually speak to that.
And we actually didn't read all of
them but there were similar themes
that a lot of people were
very interested in, you know,
about what your take away
is and what you would hope
that people would draw
from the film.
Could you just give us a closing
thought, perhaps, a charge,
perhaps something you would really
like us to be thinking about?
>> Robin Hamilton: Well, can I
cheat for a second and just ask you,
you've done so much great work.
You're a pioneer in the field.
[applause] Right, right?
You really are.
And so--
>> Michelle Martin: Well
I will just make one edit.
I will make one edit to my lovely
introduction which is as of October,
I will be hosting Weekend
All Things Considered.
So.
[ applause ]
Thank you.
So no more Tell Me More, but
you know, I loved Tell Me More.
Thank you for those of you who
listened and were supportive
of the program, but you know,
I'll be back on the air regularly
and hopefully it will be part
of your weekend listening.
Always on, on iTunes.
So. Podcast.
All that. No excuses.
>> Robin Hamilton: But from what --
from your work and everything
that you've seen and you've been
through in your career, I just want
to know what did Mrs. Hamer mean
to you and just when you reflect
on everything that you've seen
and you've done and accomplished?
>> Michelle Martin: Well, my --
well this is your taking it
in a different direction
than I was expecting.
>> Robin Hamilton: I'm sorry.
>> Michelle Martin: I see
her as a spiritual mentor,
because she practiced
a kind of discipleship
that we -- that is hard to emulate.
And it's easy to you know,
see people and think,
"Well, I could never do that.
You know, I could never
be this person.
I could never you know, that
person's smarter than me
and talks better and is-- ."
And for me, I just think she's
a, you know, profound example
of discipleship and
you can interpret
that on every level that you hear.
So that's what she means to me.
I think she's a profoundly --
profound spiritual
presence that lives.
>> Robin Hamilton: Yes.
>> Michelle Martin: I just
wish that someone had asked her
in her lifetime, had
thought to ask her.
Because I think sometimes we
take that for granted, you know,
"Oh those black folks
are so spiritual."
You know? Or, "Oh you know,
those black folks all
doing all that singing.
And it's just so -- you know,
it's part of the culture."
>> Robin Hamilton: Right, right.
>> Michelle Martin: As
opposed to it being sort
of an individual, sought
chosen path.
>> Robin Hamilton: Yes.
>> Michelle Martin: And I sometimes
think that you know, I, you know,
certainly appreciate the ground
and the soil from which she rose,
but others had that
choice and did not follow.
>> Robin Hamilton: That's right.
>> Michelle Martin: And
so I wish that someone --
and so to me, as a journalist,
it reminds me to never
assume, but to ask.
Ask. Why?
>> Robin Hamilton: Absolutely.
>> Michelle Martin: And let
people tell you who they are.
So that's what I take [inaudible].
>> Robin Hamilton:
Thank you for that.
Thank you.
[applause]
>> Michelle Martin: You can use it.
Your closing thought?
>> Robin Hamilton: Well, thank you.
I know I put you on the spot.
Yes, I just think I do feel as
though she is a spiritual being
that -- and she did stay with me.
She stayed with me
when I first met her
and she will continue
to stay with me forever.
And I just -- again, I hope that
her legacy will be for everyone
to remember to stay committed
to doing morally what's right
and following that
compass and believing
that your voice does matter.
That everything that you do matters.
>> Michelle Martin: Robin
Hamilton, thank you so much.
>> Robin Hamilton:
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
[Inaudible] so much.
>> This has been a presentation
of the Library of Congress.
Visit us at www.Loc.gov.