>> From the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C. [ Silence ] >> Catalina Gomez: Thank you all for coming. Welcome. I'm Catalina Gomez. I'm from the Hispanic Division. Before we go ahead and view the program, I wanted to just announce very little, just a few things. This event is part of Hispanic Heritage Month. We're sort of in the middle of Hispanic Heritage Month. It began on September 15 and it ends on October 15. It's been a wonderful series of events and we still have about 3-4 wonderful programs. We have the calendar of events outside, so please feel free to grab our calendar for the celebration. Please turn off your cell phones or silence your devices and we're actually filming this event, so please we ask you to either turn off or silence your phones. And then one last thing. I wanted to briefly mention the survey that we just passed out. This is a survey that the Office of Communications at the Library is collecting and it's for us to serve our patrons better with our events and programs, so thank you so much for filling that out. It really helps the Library find out how you guys find out about our programs and, you know, just better our efforts with publicizing our events. So I'm going to pass this on to the Chief of the Hispanic Division, Georgette Dorn, so please give a hand to Georgette Dorn. [ Applause ] >> Georgette Dorn: Thank you, Catalina. Wonderful, wonderful organizer of this wonderful event. And I want to thank very much Tara Sierra [phonetic], who introduced me to Gonzalo Quintero, and when I met him I said, "Perfect for Hispanic Heritage Month," because Bernardo de Galvez is a great hero of mine and a very, very important person. And of course here, we mostly know Lafayette because he was flamboyant and he fought in the Revolution, but nada que ver, you know. Gonzalo -- Bernardo de Galvez fought the real thing. He helped create the American Revolution. Gonzalo Quintero is a Fellow with the Weatherhead Center for International Affairs at Harvard University and Visiting Scholar at the Department of History in the Zanvyl Krieger School of Arts and Sciences at Johns Hopkins. He has a Ph.D. in American History from the Complutense University and in addition to being a scholar and a professor, he also was Ambassador to Pakistan from Spain, Ambassador to Pakistan, and also served at the United Nations as a representative of Spain. Gonzalo. [ Applause ] >> Gonzalo Quintero Saravia: Thank you very much. I wish to start by thanking the Library of Congress and especially it's Hispanic Division for inviting me today. I'm also in debt with the Hispanic Division since a great deal of my research for my last book on Bernardo de Galvez was possible thanks to the kind and extremely professional help provided by its staff. Thank you very much for that. Every generation has the right but also the duty to rewrite its own country's history. History is written from the present and if the present changes, so history must change. Thirty years ago, the history of the American Revolution was just the history of the founding fathers in the 13 original colonies. The founding mothers of course were completely forgotten. But not only them. It was not until the last decades that the role played in the American Revolution by African Americans and Native Americans has been studied and recognized. With these two broadening cooperations [phonetic], the picture of the American Revolution and what happened on the North American continent in those years is broader, but far from complete. For that, we need to go beyond what happened in the original 13 colonies, because in 1775, Britain had, depending how you count them, around 23 colonies in America. And only half of them rebelled against the British rule. What happened there had a direct impact on the American Revolution and in those parts of the American continent, and also in the strategic and material support to the American Revolution, Spain played an important part that is normally not well known. The Revolutionary War was a revolutionary war, but it was a global war. The Revolutionary War was just a part of a theatre of operations of the war that took place at the time. Those three dots mark the three theatres of operations that were involved in the war: the American theatre, the European one, and the Asian theatre. In the American one, actually there were several sub-theatres. The one you are most familiarized with is what happened in the 13 American colonies, but it was not the only one. Many important battles were fought in the South, where the colonists remained loyal to the British, and that's the role of Bernardo de Galvez. He won the Battle of Pensacola, Mobile, Manchac, and Baton Rouge. But also in the Caribbean. Spain's main objective in the Caribbean was to seize Jamaica from the British. Actually, Jamaica was the British's most cherished possession in the whole Americas. The threat of losing Jamaica was really the key for the ending of the war. When the British realized that they were about to lose Jamaica, they sue [phonetic] for peace to France and to Spain. Because of the fear of losing Jamaica, they were forced to make peace and to surrender the 13 original colonies. But then also there were a fourth sub-theatre of operations in America. It was the Central America. The British made several attempts against several passing Guatemala, but were repelled by the Governor of Guatemala at the time, who by chance and not by chance was Bernardo de Galvez's father. The second one was the European theatre of operations. The first one was Minorca. Minorca was/is an island that was taken from the Spaniards by the Brits in the beginning of the 18th Century and Spain always wanted to have it back. And during this war, one of the main operations was the conquest of the island of Minorca. So the Brits had to keep in Minorca a huge garrison in order to defend itself. Second, Gibraltar. Gibraltar was the biggest battle in the American Revolutionary War. It involved the most people and the most -- the most ships than any other battle in the Revolutionary War. Finally, the Spaniards weren't able to seize Gibraltar and it continues so. And also, another episode that is not well known, the Spanish and the French were organizing an invasion of the British Islands. That meant that the British Navy had to patrol all the seas and all the waters surrounding the British Isles in order to prevent the French and the Spaniards from invading their homeland. In India, the French and the Dutch possessions in India were attacked, or they attacked British possessions, so that meant that the British had to be involved in also taking care of that particular area. Now, Bernardo de Galvez and how he fits in all this global war. Bernardo de Galvez was born in a very poor family. Actually, they were shepherds in a small town and very poor town in the south of Spain called Macharaviaya. It's even difficult to pronounce it even for a Spaniard, okay. So there were actually four brothers, his brother, Bernardo's father, Matias, and three other brothers. The brightest one and the oldest one was Jose. Jose de Galvez actually was just a shepherd and he went to the local school. When the local bishop paid a visit to the local school, he discovered the brilliant boy that Jose was and he decided to give him a scholarship to become a priest to the seminary in Malaga. He wasn't interested in being a priest, but he was interested in leaving Macharaviaya, so he accepted the scholarship, he studied for several years, and then he convinced the priests that he would serve better the church in becoming a lawyer. And he went to the University of Alcala, he graduated with honors, he started an important career in a legal office, and he became known as the best lawyer in town. He got involved in politics, which is normal for lawyers, and he was offered a posting. The most important posting at the time was the Minister of the Indies, that was the Minister for the colonies, if you will call it. And under his command was not only the colonies but also the navy to protect the colonies. So the power in his hands was huge. He would be Minister for the Indies for more than 15 years, and during his 15 years he helped a little his family. He made one of his brothers Governor of Guatemala and then Viceroy of Mexico. Another of his brothers, he made him Ambassador to Berlin and to Catherine the Great. And the other of his brothers, he was so bad that he would only appoint him as the guy dealing with taxes in the Port of Cadiz, and he did a very good job there for himself because he amassed a huge amount of money in not very strict ways. But he was not that way, Jose de Galvez, and he had no kids and so his heir was his nephew, Bernardo. Bernardo got his opportunity. He entered not the -- the career of arms, not in the Spanish army but in the French one. Why? Because in order to become a Spanish -- an officer in a Spanish regiment, you need to have contacts. You need to be noble or at least of a family that is well known. De Galvez, at the time, were nobodies. Jose de Galvez was just the lawyer of the French Embassy in Madrid. So what he did is he used his French contacts and he got an appointment for his nephew in the French army. And the French army at the time was allied with the Spanish army. They were allies in a short war against Portugal in which an invasion took place, but actually the regiment in which Bernardo was a lieutenant actually saw no action. So actually the only thing he learned there was French, which would be very important for his future career. After his short period of being a lieutenant in the French army, he got -- through connections of his uncle, he got that his rank would be recognized in the Spanish army. So he entered the Spanish army as a lieutenant and he spent several years doing almost nothing -- there's no record about those two years -- and then his uncle was appointed Visitor General for New Spain. That's an appointment of General Inspector or something like that. For you to know, New Spain is today's Mexico, but not only Mexico. Actually, it's from the middle of the U.S. till Panama, that chunk of land. The [inaudible] were the richest viceroyalty in Spain. The Spanish Empire and the British Empire -- we will go to them afterwards - were completely different. When the Britains or the French made an empire, they made sure that the most important city of the empire is either London or Paris, which is normal. Your metropolis is the most important city. But that thing did not happen. It did not happen with the Spanish Empire. In the Spanish Empire, Madrid was not by far the largest city nor the most rich one. The richest and the most populated city in the Spanish Empire was Mexico. Why? Because it was in the middle of the Atlantic commerce and the Pacific commerce, and the sheer size of Mexico City was double or triple the size of Madrid. It depends on the time you're taking it into account. And it was the largest city in all the Spanish Empire, larger than Seville, larger than Barcelona, larger than Valencia, larger than any city in the Iberian Peninsula. So being appointed Visitor General for New Spain was a huge important thing to be appointed. His powers were enormous and when he was -- when Jose was there for a couple of years, he was able to claim, to ask his nephew to come and to appoint him as Captain in one of the presidios. He went in 1769 to Mexico and he was in charge of a company fighting the Apache at the time. The wars against the Apache were on and off during centuries, but actually there was no such thing as a war against the Apache because the Apache were not a whole thing. What they were called, the Apache, were a succession of groups that actually had certain traits and cultural traits in common. But they could be at war with each other, so they have no unity. So it was impossible to have a war against the Apache because you can have a war against a tiny part of the Mescalero while at the same time you were at peace with a tiny part of the Jicarilla and that depends. There were 17 groups of the Apache at the same time. The thing was that the situation in the northern frontier of New Spain, which was at the time what is called today Texas, was very unstable and the settlers there were asking for a military complaint to be raised against the Native Americans. And Bernardo was the one who was in charge of commanding most of the troops that were, that were there, but instead of succumbing to this war mongering environment, he decided to study the Apache. Of course, the aim to study them, for studying them, was to defeat them. He was a military guy. But he studied not only their culture and their ways of war but also the reasons for the war, and he concluded that the reasons for the war for the Apache was offense they had to receive from the Spaniards. He also concluded that they often are accused of being cruel, but he demanded from the Spaniards that what they were seeing about us, because we had been being as cruel as we pretend that they are. So he wrote a very balanced report, a report that was not published at the time and was lost for around 200 years and then was finally found in 1814 in a Mexican library. And since it was not going to be published and it was not going to be public, he can put there whatever he really thought was the truth, and the way that he expresses himself it's always wonderful. Then, after a series of campaigns against the Apache in which he was wounded several times by arrows and lances and stones thrown against him by the Apache, he returned to Spain and he was appointed to the Avila Military Academy, which was the elite institution created by Alexander O'Reilly, who was a Spaniard, one of the wild geese that served in the Spanish Army for 200 years, and this was the school that was going to prepare the future generals and lieutenant generals for the Spanish Army. He was admitted there when he was only a captain and he spent there a year and a half. But he was not actually an intellectual, so he was not happy going to class and everything, so when a war broke out with Algiers, he presented himself as volunteer. The war was because of international politics. It was just a way of showing the strength of the new Spanish Navy to the other European powers and which better objective than a tiny spot in the south Mediterranean that could be bombarded and invaded and taken easily. Well, the thing was so ill-prepared and so ill-conceived and so ill put into practice that it was a disaster, but Bernardo had a chance to distinguish himself during the attack by not retreating from the beach despite several direct orders he received until the last of his men was safely onboard. So he was decorated after that and he was promoted to Lieutenant Colonel. Lieutenant Colonel at the time, you need to be 45-50 years. At the time, he was only 30-something. And that didn't happen all the time. And of course, he started to play his role. But he was the nephew of the Minister of the Indies, so in order to be directly against Bernardo was difficult. For example, at this time he was the nephew, and only the nephew, despite this distinguished service, of the Minister of the Indies that when Alexander O'Reilly was thinking of a candidate in order to promote him to being the colonel of the fixed regiment of infantry in Louisiana, he thought about Bernardo and he wrote a letter to his uncle, not to him, explaining the reasons why he has chosen his uncle: because he knew French, he had dealt with the Indians, the Native Americans, in Mexico, so that experience will be very valuable in order to deal with the Native Americans living in Louisiana, and so on and so forth. But he wrote to Jose de Galvez, not to Bernardo. So, well, who cares? Bernardo was very happy and on June 1, 1777, he landed in New Orleans and as Colonel of the Louisiana Fixed Regiment and as acting Governor of Louisiana. His instructions were to first to be and make Spain popular among the population. We must not forget that only 10 years before, there had been a huge rebellion of the French original population of Louisiana against the new Spanish rulers. Louisiana was French till 1763 and afterward it was switched to Spain. And it was not an easy transition. There was a rebellion and Alexander O'Reilly again, the same Alexander O'Reilly, was the one who crushed the rebellion, but actually executing 5-6 people. That's not a huge cost at the time. And then everything was pacified, but it was pacified by the boot, by a heavy hand. So Bernardo had the instructions to pacify and to make popular the Spanish and the Spanish rule among the local population. The other part of his instructions was to make sure that Louisiana was ready when the war was going to break against Britain. We are talking about January 1777 and of course the Brits and the 13 colonies have been in war since a couple, few years ago. So the Spaniards knew that as long as this war continued, it was good news for Spain because it was bad news for Britain. And in Spain, you have to take into account the history of Spain can be divided into two different periods, either we're killing Frenchmen or we are killing Englishmen, okay. At this particular time in our history, we are concentrating on killing British, okay, with the help of the French. But that will change 25 years later, when we will be allies of the Brits killing the French and Napoleon. So it's either one or the other. So but the importance of being a governor in Louisiana was beyond that. He entered into -- he was idolized by the local population. He was a very fun guy to deal with. He loved dancing, he loved playing music, he played the guitar, he was very popular, and he was loved by the people. And he found love there. He found the daughter -- there was a widower, and she had a daughter, of a wealthy Louisiana merchant called Gilberto de Saint-Maxent. She was Filicite and she was beautiful and he completely lost his mind for her, lost his mind because actually it was a bad match because when his uncle married -- he married three times, each time with a wife with a better social position. The third one was the daughter of the Council of La Puebla. The first one was nobody. So he was escalating social positions and he was very concerned about that, and even though the Saint-Maxent were the upper crust of Louisiana, come on. Louisiana was Louisiana, okay. So if he would have been in love or fell in love with the upper crust of Mexico City, well, maybe that would be different, but come on. Louisiana, no? So he had a very huge, a huge problem with this family. Huge one. So huge that in order to appease his political family, and especially the wife of his uncle, he baptized one of the new cities that he founded during his governorship of Louisiana as Valenzuela, who was the name of her uncle, of his uncle's wife, just to say, "Come on, I have put the name of her and we are going to be friends again." The second thing is that in order to marry anyone, a civil servant and an officer in this case, needed permission from the King. It was interrelations and there was no way this was going to have the permission to marry Filicite Maxent. So he suddenly felt very ill, extremely ill. He was going to die. And there's a particular detail in the canonic law, in canon law, that allows that when the marriage takes place in the fear of death, the other formalities can be taken out and you can marry quickly without all the proceedings and all the formalities. So he married that way Filiciana. I don't think he was so ill because 8 months and 25 days after the marriage, Filiciana delivered a baby. So either he recovered very, very quickly or he was not that ill. The process in Spain -- we invented bureaucracy, which is a good thing for a historian because we have all the proceedings of what happened concerning his authorization to get married and it was great to see how everything at the end was solved, of course, but it was solved when he was Governor of Louisiana and he was a Count, but not before. So he became very creolized and he loved America. Then came the war against the Brits. Well, you see the chunk of land that was Spanish in 1777, no? And the way that they -- the Spanish were interested in prolonging the war between the Brits and the 13 Colonies as much as possible because as long as the war was going on, the weaker the Brits were growing. The Spanish were the -- the Spanish government at the time, after a thorough debate in the government, weren't interested in having the west as an independent country. Why? Because it was a bad precedent for the Spanish Empire if you have an -- someone who can become independent, maybe that idea would be a bad idea for the Spanish colonies. But in any case, they decided that they had to balance the two sides of the war. Between 1775 and 1777, and even a little bit later, the situation for the Continental Army was terrible. No supplies, nothing at all. So they need -- the Spanish government decided that in order to balance the odds of the war, in order to prolong the war, they needed to supply and to give help to the Continental Army of George Washington, and they did it through two main channels. The first one that was used was where several Spanish companies that were dealing with fisheries in Terra Nova [phonetic] and they had contacts with Boston. That was [inaudible] house of trade in Bilbao and Gardo Key [phonetic] was later awarded as being the first Spanish Ambassador to the U.S. And this was the first channel they used. When all this part of the eastern coast was lost to the Revolution, the Spaniards had to open a second channel in order to supply all the things, mainly ammunition, weapons, uniforms, tents, and cash. So this was the second route, and in this second route, as you see, the Mississippi was the key. So what Spain needed to do was to clear out the Mississippi from the British in order to be able to supply whatever the Spanish wants to do. And in that route, Bernardo de Galvez was the acting Governor of Louisiana, so it was his main route. Not only that, also from Texas came lots of cattle that was actually sent to the supplies for the Continental Army. The war against the Brits. Before the news, the official news, arrived, Bernardo knew that Spain had declared war to Britain. So in a preemptive attack, he sent his horses, a very diverse force composed with 170 Spaniards from the Peninsula, European Spaniards. The rest were Frenchmen from the militias, mulatto, black from the free militias of New Orleans, and also 17 American volunteers. And with this small force, he attacked Manchac, Baton Rouge, and then he started the conquer of Mobile. Mobile was not that easy. He needed reinforcements from other places. But he succeeded in conquering Mobile. Everyone was astonished at how this small force could deliver such a blow. Well, the blow was delivered mainly because it wasn't expected. And, for example, against Mobile, when he was sailing with his forces against Mobile, a huge hurricane struck and most of his ships just sunk. And he was able to salvage most of his people and some of the arms and cannons and everything and instead of retreating to New Orleans, which was the normal way or rational way to proceed, he continued the attack. And so the Brits were amazed that there were Spaniards over there because they have been told the whole fleet got sunk in a storm two weeks before. But it wouldn't be the same in Pensacola. For Pensacola, he would need a bigger army. The thing was that Bernardo was a newcomer and the troops must come from Cuba, and in Cuba was the old generals of Havana that considered Bernardo just a new guy with no connections, too much luck, and being a little timid [phonetic]. So they put every single problem they could. Not directly because he was the nephew of the Minister of the Indies, but, okay, you can delay, you can use dilatory tactics, you can use red tape. And so I have made a calculation. 60% of the time Bernardo spent of his life, of his active life, he had spent that time fighting bureaucracy. Only 40% he was able to fight the British. Imagine what he could have done if he was relieved of these kind of problems. But that's the way things are. After conquering Pensacola, which was his finest hour, he returned to Spain for a year and a half and then he was appointed Governor of Cuba. But then his father died. His father was at the time Viceroy of Mexico and his uncle decided that he would be the successor of his father as Viceroy of Mexico. That's the proof of the power of the Galvez family and Jose de Galvez. And he became Viceroy of Mexico, the most important that a Spaniard can have during the 18th Century. Period. Compared only to the power of the King. And there he only governed for a little bit more than a year and a half. He died there when he was 40 years old. 40 years old only, but the most important thing he did in Mexico, besides starting several reforms, like the reform in the army or the reform in the northern provinces, was actually his reaction to the humanitarian crisis that started there, where all the crops actually were burnt by a strange natural phenomena and hunger was rampant in the viceroyalty. And what he did was defended the poor and the Native Americans and the Indians. When Spanish would talk about Indians, there's no value to it. It's just the way they were called at the time. So he protected them from the abuses of the elite that was actually taking all the food in the granaries and in their hands in order to raise the prices and then profit from the thing. And he did a very good job with the Bishop of Michuoc [phonetic] County in order to prevent them and to be sure that it was not possible to feed the people. He also was very popular because he loved attending parties, he loved attending bull fightings, he loved walking down the street, which was unprecedented for a viceroy. No one had been there before as a viceroy, strolling on the streets. So he loved -- they loved him. Actually, there's a black legend about Bernardo that he was trying to become King of Mexico, which actually was not true, first because this legend was born in 1816, something like that, so well after then. And second, come on, there was no real substance for that thing because in 1786, which was the date that Bernardo died, there was no independence movement in any part of Latin America. So this was America in 1763. As you see, the French, in between the Spanish and British possessions, but 10 years later this was America in 1783. And all the tip of Florida was because of Bernardo. The objective of Spain, as you can see there, was closing the Caribbean and to make it 100% Spanish land. The problem was the Bahamas and Jamaica. They were still in British hands, so those were our two main objectives. First to take this, which Bernardo did, and the second one was to take Jamaica in order to close the Caribbean for any other non-Spanish vessel. But one of the most important findings I have done during my research is the ones concerning Spanish and Bernardo's policies towards Native Americans. First, that involved first the borderlands. The borderlands is a topic that has been studied by historians for only the last 15 years, I would say. Previously, historians tend to concentrate in the center, when it was believed that the real thing happened, that the real McCoy was happening. But now that we're tending to concentrate on borderlands because in borderlands there's -- in the borderlands, there's a way you define yourself in the way you define the other. And there's a trial of your institutions in order to see how your institutions work with the institutions of the other. So there's a cultural confrontation in that thing. And when we're talking about the borderlands in North America, it's this huge chunk of land. Actually, to the south of this area that I have marked, actually the population was more or less settled. It was more or less populated and it was more or less controlled by the Spanish state. But all this area actually was loosely populated, very loosely populated, and very loosely controlled. And what they did is they, during the 18th Century -- we're talking about the 18th Century -- they developed two very important institutions that are at the heart of very important cities today in the U.S., which are the mission and the presidio. The mission, well, you know about the mission. There's no need to explain that. But the presidio, the presidio was -- if you see a John Ford movie and you see Fort Apache, that's a presidio, no? Actually, that's a presidio, okay. You can see the fort and you can see the Indians living around and you can see several settlers settling around the fort in order to have protection. Actually, it was a copy. That system of fort was a copy of the presidio. That's it. Second one. The Apache experience of Bernardo. Well, there you have a picture made in 1775 of how were supposedly to look the Apaches. Of course, no relation to what the Apache looked like. They were not dressed like that. Nothing to do. But they needed Apaches in order to paint them for the Mexican, for the palace of the Viceroy of Mexico at the time because they needed a portrait of every single group that was living in Mexico. So they needed Apaches and that's the way they portrayed them. But Bernardo didn't fall for this official portraiture and didn't fall for the war mongering environment that was prevailing in the northern frontiers of New Spain. As we have discussed before, he tried to understand the Apache culture in order to understand the reasons why they were at war and how to solve them, and we will go to there in a moment. There was also a British model and a Spanish model concerning the Indian policy at the time, what was called at the time the Indian Policy. The British model was based on commerce, trade, and gifts mainly, and the Spanish model was just to incorporate every single population into the social system designed for the Americas, which are completely different models. And but not only that. They're a single item that I have found during my research here that I would like to share to you. Britains, Anglo-Saxons, when they're in contact with other people -- I don't know why you guys you love to dress like them. I don't know. It's an Anglo-Saxon phenomenon I haven't found elsewhere. So you have the portrait of Joe Romey [phonetic]. He was half -- he was sort of half-Mohawk and half-British. But when he decided to have his portrait, he decided to have it like that. But not only if you're half and half; only if you're a Sir in the British Army and you come to fight in the British Army here in the North America, you have your portrait like that. Actually, it's a cultural shock for us. For us, I mean Hispanics, okay. This is the portrait of George Catlin. George Catlin was a very important painter of the west, a very important one, and when he was offered by his colleague, William Fisk, to make his portrait, he dressed like an Indian. Okay? Oh, yeah. When the Britains go to India, they dress like maharajas. Those guys sitting down there, this guy, is a British officer, okay. Lord Byron, when he went to Albania to fight for British independence, he had his portrait and look how he dressed. Like an Albanian. The exception is Pocahontas. Pocahontas, when she was taken by John Smith to Britain, she had a portrait. Actually, it's Dutch, the original. It's a Dutch engraving. This is the original one. And she was dressed like a European. But most of the times, when I found portraits of Native Americans dressed as Europeans, they have this nasty connotation. It's a mockery, it's like he's crazy, or making fun of him. This is a portrait by George Catlin, which was the guy whose was the portrait before, and this is a very interesting one because it's the portrait of this particular chief, Pigeon's Egg Head, before going to Washington to the left for a visit and after going to Washington. Okay? Now let's return to the Spanish mentality. I have been unable to find a single portrait during the three centuries that Spain was ruling the Americas of a Spaniard dressed as a Native American. I haven't found it. If it exists, I would appreciate very much if you could supply it to me. It would be very interesting. This, for example, this was Aztec warrior that switched sides and fought with Cortez. And when he had his portrait done, he was portrait like a conqueror, like a western conqueror. He's wearing the armor of the 16th Century Iago. Not only that, in Ecuador in the 16th Century, these are former slaves that escaped slavery and went to the Emerald Islands in Ecuador. And while there, these former slaves became the chieftains of the population there. They signed a treaty with the Spanish king and when they were offered to have a portrait done, they dressed like this. There's no mockery here. None at all. It's just the way they are. Here, another example. This is Nusta Beatriz. Nusta is the name -- Nusta is the Inca name, the Quechua name, for 'princess'. She was the daughter of the Incan Emperor and she was married to the nephew of Juan Ignacio de Loyola. That's the reason why you have the two priests over there, okay. And you see there are -- the families of the bride and the families of the groom and there's no distinction or mockery or -- they're at the same level. They're a little bit upper, the ones to the right side, but I think actually it's because they are supposed to be in Spain, okay, because this portrait was made in Mexico. Sorry, in Peru, okay. So I think, I think, that this was -- they are closer here because they were there and the family of the groom was supposed to be in Spain. I don't see a difference in level there, but I could be wrong. So you see the differences between the Spanish culture, the assimilation with the Native American population. It's a completely different mindset. Another example I have found, interesting that I found, concerning the roles of the Native Americans in the war, the Revolutionary War, is that they have been portrayed normally as useless, and when they actually took arms for one of those sites, they were extremely cruel. Well, neither are the case. These are, as I told you before, it's great to have grave robbers in Spain because they have lots of victims. We have the men wounded and killed in the Pensacola campaign day by day. We don't have that with the British, but with the Spanish we do. So we can follow what happened day by day and we can follow the main events during the campaign. There you see are all the killings. You see the officers, men killed or wounded, etc., etc., etc. It was this moment when the attack on the main mission for Pensacola started. Actually, all those killings, all of them, were made by Indians. Not a single one was made by the British Army. It was then that the British Army in command one or two officers and they were Indian officers. So all the killing, that means in this particular case, we should not -- this peak of -- we should take this peak off in order to even the weight of the devastation because this was the huge explosion that took place in Pensacola. So actually it's not a fight; actually, it's an explosion. So if you take this off, actually 70% of the casualties suffered by the Spaniards in the siege of Pensacola were caused by Indians, by Native Americans. But were they cruel? Actually, no, because the ratio that is normal between wounded and dead at the time are -- the ratio between those, sorry, those dead against those wounded in combat between European troops was 33% were killed and 60% wounded, while in the combats that we have registered here between Spanish troops and Native Americans, either commanded by British officers or not, only 25.4% were killed and 74.6% wounded. That means less killed than among European fights. If they were cruel, there was supposed to be a high ratio of dead, no? It's not. So they were important, at least in the Pensacola campaign, the Native Americans, and second, they were not cruel as they had been accused of being. And just finishing now. A man of the Enlightenment. Bernardo de Galvez, I already told you that he died when he was 40 and when he was 40, he had very little time for himself. It was only a period of less than a year and a month when he returned from Louisiana and before being appointed Governor of Cuba. And at that time, he was just being the Spanish expert in Indian Policy and the Spanish expert in American affairs, and he was consulted by the government every single time there was a subject related to those. So he was bored to death and what he did at the time -- at the time, the fashion was ballooning, hot air balloons. It was like the craziness that took everyone during the '60s and the travels to outer space. Everyone was crazy about astronauts and rockets and everything. The difference was that the science involved in hot air ballooning is easily grasped by a normal person at the time. The science involved in rocketing is actually impossible to get unless you are Werhner von Braun. So Bernardo, as a military man, discovered that this invention by the Montgolfier brothers could have very important military implications if you can control the direction of the balloon. So he decided to create a model in order to try to explain that the way it's going to be for the Spanish air power to direct its balloons. And that he would not only design it, but he also designed an experiment that took place on March 1, 1784, in the channel of the River Manzanares, close to Madrid. So he tried all those things and, more than that, he invited the president of the Royal Society at the time, Joseph Banks, to attend the demonstration and other important scientists at the time. And we know that he did that because that engraving and that report is published in the proceedings of the Royal Society at the time. It was not record in Spain, but it was only record in Britain, and no less than in the Royal Society. So he also was a man of the Enlightenment. And to finish now, I would like to skip this and to just thank you for being so kind with me today. Thank you again, the Spanish Division of the Library and Congress. I'm so indebted to you. And any question you have, I would be more than glad to answer, if I have the answer. Thank you very much. [ Applause ] [ Inaudible speaker ] I'm a little bit deaf, so -- >> How did he die? >> Gonzalo Quintero Saravia: He was wounded several times, so he had problems with that, but actually the thing that killed him was malaria that he contracted in Louisiana. At the time, the swamps in Louisiana were terrible. Yeah? >> Galveston in Texas, was it family members that named it? >> Gonzalo Quintero Saravia: No, actually when Bernardo started acquisition policies, founding lots of places over there, he started choosing and picking up names. But Galveston was not picked up by him. It was picked by the local population that wanted to congratiate [phonetic] themselves with the governor who was a so powerful governor, so they told him that they wanted to be Galveston. At first, he rejected the idea. He said that it was too much. But they insisted so much that finally he agreed and, yeah, it's because of him. It's because of he himself, but he named other -- he named three little villages, Filiciana, for his wife, and also a very interesting one. He called it Barataria. Barataria is the island that was governed by Sancho Panza, the squire of Don Quixote. But in Spanish literature, it represents, like for you in British literature the Utopia by Sir Thomas More. It's the place where everything is possible because they have a good ruler and everything is going to be perfect. So Barataria is like the model of a society and he chose exactly that name for one of the little villagers. In the end, it was destroyed. There's no traces of that on none of those. Sure? >> It's so great to hear the Spanish point of view about the American Revolution, but I -- obviously, I'm going to be speaking to Americans and say, "Yes, but what about Bernardo de Galvez?" So what do I say? >> Gonzalo Quintero Saravia: He was a Supreme Commander of the French and Spanish troops in the North American continent. If the Spanish troops had not been involved attacking Manchac, Baton Rouge, Mobile, and Pensacola, the Brits would have been able to concentrate all their might, both naval and the army, against the Continental Army and crush the Continental Army. So they had to spread their forces. So they had to spread their forces not only in the southern states of present-day U.S. but also in the Caribbean, so they weren't able to concentrate enough forces against George Washington. >> So he saved the Revolution? >> Gonzalo Quintero Saravia: No. The one who saved the Revolution was George Washington, okay. Not even Lafayette. Yes? >> I heard much talk about the amount of money that was spent. And that's true, isn't it? That the money spent was more by Spain than France? >> Gonzalo Quintero Saravia: No. There's a -- it's the way how you count the money. There are two ways of doing it and I have done it both ways in my research. The first way is to go to the documents of the time, especially the reports of our Ambassador to France at the time and later our Ambassador to Britain and then our Ambassador to the U.S. in order to -- the amounts that we're talking about. If we follow that kind of thing, the amount delivered by Spain, both directly and indirectly, for the American Revolution was 15% of the total that France delivered. But that was not the case. The thing you have to take into account is also the other costs that were involved. I have studied the cost, the defense cost, of the Spanish Empire five years before, during the Revolution, and five years after. And you can see there's a peak, a huge peak, that had to be paid. That's a cost that actually has been, actually was suffering at the time. And the cost is like six times the normal cost of the defense of the Empire because they have to raise an army, they have to build new ships and everything. If you take this second way of counting the money into account, we, sorry, the Spanish contribution is great. It's bigger than the French one. But there's a huge difference. The debts that the French incurred during this war are the origin of the French Revolution. Everything started because of that. They weren't able to pay those debts. They had to call the General of States in order to raise more taxes. And because of that, the French Revolution started, okay. In Spain, that didn't happen so. Why? Because when the Britains tried to implement the new reforms of the Empire in the 18th Century, and it cracked and the American Revolution started. In Spain, it didn't happen. The Spaniards at the time were able to implement the reforms of the Bourbons, the Enlightenment reforms. In America, we fought the Revolution and everything worked perfectly. So by the end of the 18th Century, there was no movement in what is today Latin America that was in favor of independence. There were several problems and several revolts, but they were common during regime, both in the Iberian Peninsula and in the Americas and other parts of the Spanish Empire. So it's not because there was a sentiment of independence. I'm talking about till the end of the 18th, okay. Till the end of the 18th, there was no sentiment of independence. There were unrests, yeah, but the unrests don't qualify if they don't have something of independence behind it. I have the numbers, but I don't have them with me today. >> What kind of person was Bernardo de Galvez? >> Gonzalo Quintero Saravia: Sorry? >> What kind of person was Bernardo de Galvez? >> Gonzalo Quintero Saravia: He was fun. There's so many anecdotes about him. For example, one, he was one day just having a walk in Mexico City, which was unusual for a viceroy to do, but he loved it. And he suddenly heard a poor Indian woman was crying and he asked her what happened. The priest is denying the mass for my late husband because we don't have any money. And he said, well, come with me, we're going to solve this. So he went into the church with the woman and he asked the priest to come. He said is it true that you are not giving a mass because he has no money. No, no, no, Viceroy, it's not the money. Of course, it's not the money. We don't have here the chorus of the church -- sorry? >> The choir. >> Gonzalo Quintero Saravia: The choir. Sorry. The choir in order to sing as it should be done. No problem. I can sing. You have a guitar? Yes, I have a guitar. So he said you go on and I will do the choir. So he sat on -- he was on the right side of the altar, he took the guitar, and he sang the music for that. Of course, after doing that, he was crazy popular among his people, yeah. He loved dancing with his wife. He loved going to bull fighting with his wife and kids and throwing everything -- you know we have in Spain this terrible thing called bull fighting. I know it's a terrible thing. I do apologize, but it's the way things are today. I hope we will improve in the near future, but the present situation it was still you have bull fightings, okay. So in the tradition there is when you like very much what happened in the arena, you throw whatever you have -- your hat or your jacket or whatever. Not shoes, okay. But you throw whatever you want. So one of those times, Bernardo got so excited that actually his wife had to stop him because he was taking his jacket, his shirt, and everything in order to show it there. So he was fun. He was really fun. Also, he liked to have in his -- we don't have the inventory of his library, but we have partial inventories of books found in the sale that took place of all of his things after his death and there were books that were in the Forbidden Index by the Inquisition, which is good. Which is good. Sorry, yes? >> What year did he become Viceroy in Mexico City? >> Gonzalo Quintero Saravia: 1785. 1785. Yeah, 1786 he was dead, yes. [Inaudible speaker] There were, sorry? >> You mentioned the Apache, right, and there were a series of wars between them and the Spaniards. Can you pinpoint from your research where that first started [crosstalk]? >> Gonzalo Quintero Saravia: Oh, the thing is, actually the Apache entered in contact with the Spaniards very early in the second half of the 16th Century. The reason why they entered into contact with the Spaniards was because the Apache were displaced from their original land by the Comanche, okay. The Comanche decided to go south and they pushed the Apache south, and the Apache pushed the guys who were before them. so we must bear in mind that the location of all this -- we don't call them tribes anymore, but these groups, the Apache, for example, it depends very much on the precise time you are studying because during the 16th Century they were far north and there were no contacts with the Spanish settlements. But as long as they started moving south, they started creating problems for the Spanish settlers. So and also be very much aware there were 17 groups of Apache at the time, the Jicarilla, the Mescalero, lots of them. And each one is just as -- had some cultural traits that they shared in common, but they have subgroups that can be at war with each other and at the same time another group at peace with the Spanish settlers at the time but another group at war with the Spanish. So that created a lot of problems for the Spanish to understand it but how are you telling me that you have just concluded a peace with the Apache and now you are being attacked by the same Apache. No, it's not the same Apache; it's another one. So it's a problem. The thing is, in borderlands, what happened in America was a different situation than from the main core of the empires. In the main core of the empires, I mean the Aztec and the Incas, you have a pyramid. You just chop off the upper part of the pyramid, you put the Spaniards on top of that, and they can control everything and everything will remain. At the beginning, of course, things will be changed very profoundly during the 300 years of Spanish rule, of course, but at the beginning it was easy. The problem was in certain parts of America, meaning what is today the United States and northern Mexico, meaning what is today Colombia, Venezuela, and Ecuador, and meaning the south of Chile and Argentina, there were no kind of structures of empire. So there were just groups and groups and groups and groups. And the way to deal with those groups was normally attacking every single group, beheading in the sense of the system. You're replacing the head of this particular group and put this Spaniard in control. But since there were hundreds of those groups, it was an endless situation of war, okay, so it was very difficult. The same happened in Colombia at the time with the Catholics, the same happened with the Indian rebellions in Chile and Argentina during the 16th, 17th, and 18th Century, and the same happened with the Apache, the Comanche, the Chicawa, whatever. >> Thank you. >> Gonzalo Quintero Saravia: No, thank you. Thank you very much. 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