>> Narrator: From the Library of Congress in Washington, DC. >> Stephen Winick: So my name is Stephen Winick and I'm here at the Library of Congress, where I'm the writer and editor for the American Folklife Center. And I'm here with the three members of the group NOKA, and with Mikel Markez. And we're going to talk about Basque music and culture, and about their group. So I'm going to address some general questions in English, and any of you can answer. And I also have some questions in French that I'll ask later for Mikel specifically -- >> Mikel Markez: Okay. >> Stephen Winick: About the Basque country and life there. But for now, you are three Basque-Americans, and perform Basque language songs and music. So let's talk a little about the Basque culture, and if you could just start out by telling us what, you know, Americans need to know about Basque culture to understand who are the Basques, and what's their language and culture like? >> Begoña Echeverria: Well, the Basque country is a translation from the English of Euskal Herria, which were the first two of the seven provinces, where the language, Basque has been spoken. So there are -- right now it's divided into seven provinces. Four which are in Spain and three of which are in France. But there's a language there that is spoken that is unrelated to any other language in the world, so it's an isolate -- so it's not related to Spanish or French, or anything else. So in America what they should know, is it's a great secret language. So everyone should learn it -- not everybody -- enough people should learn it so they can talk about other people while they're in America. And so we are -- the three of us are daughters, or granddaughters of immigrants who came from the Basque country. From -- my family's from the southern side, so the northwest of France, and Nafarroa [Beherea] is the province, about five miles from the French border. So my parents came from there to work in the states. And Cathy and Andrea can speak to their own family histories. >> Cathy Petrissans: My parents were born in California; it's my grandfathers that immigrated to -- one to Chino and one to northern California. They married Basque-American women, so my grandmothers were also born in California. They came from the French side of the Basque country. >> Andréa Bidart: Yeah, my parents also were born in the French side of the Basque country. My mom's from Alsace, and my father's from St. Estevan. And my father immigrated as a shepherd in the mid-50s, and then he got into the dairy business. And went back to marry my mom after seven years, and that's my history. >> Stephen Winick: Great. Well you know, I think if Americans know about Basque Americans at all, they tend to associate them, I think, with Idaho and possibly with Nevada. I'm not sure that a lot of Americans know that there's Basque folks in California. So are the Basques in the West generally aware of one another's communities as well as the other states? >> Cathy Petrissans: Yes, we have -- in California the biggest Basque clubs are in Chino where we're from. There's one in Bakersfield and San Francisco. And those are ones that each have their own clubhouse. So yes, we do know each other very well; we go to each other's picnics. There's -- well the picnics for the children, the kids get together and learn dances together and songs together, but yes, we know each other very well. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> Andréa Bidart: And it's also connected through the North American Basque Organization. And there are like triannual meetings, and communication. We have a website, so -- >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. So what kind of Basque cultural outlets are there in California? You mentioned the clubs, are there other sort of ways in which Basques get together and -- >> Begoña Echeverria: Sure -- >> Stephen Winick: And perform their culture? >> Begoña Echeverria: So in addition to -- we call them Basque picnics. So they're big -- they are pretty big festivals. So the Basque community will have Basque picnics in -- every year at the same time. So the Basque picnics and the different communities will go to each other's picnics. So we tend to go to the ones in Bakersfield; they'll come to our picnics. And then depending on the community, but we have an actual clubhouse -- a Chino Basque club. So we actually have monthly gatherings, and we'll have lunches or dinners. And we'll have -- we've brought people over from the Basque Country, like Mikel's been there before with other singers. And we've brought over Kepa Junkera. [Inaudible] has been there; we've had dance groups perform there. But even when we don't have entertainment from the Basque Country, we'll get together and have a meal that's prepared by Basque-Americans or Basque immigrants, and just to spend some time together. >> Cathy Petrissans: There are also some Basque restaurants. >> Begoña Echeverria: Yeah, Basque restaurants, sure. >> Cathy Petrissans: In Chino we only have one. Now Bakersfield has I don't know, maybe four or five Basque restaurants. San Francisco has one as well. And back in the day, I mean in Chino it was where all the shepherds came. They were boarders there, so the owners -- the woman, Monique, she would cook for all of the shepherds; that's where they lived. Andréa Bidart: And it's organized into communities, and you -- each community has usually its own dance group. So we have like three Basque dance groups. To the littlest ones, and then the older ones and on up. And then we have the sport too, pilota. Like in Chino we have the young ones learning how to do pilota. And there's a lot of card game going on. Mouche is the standard card game. I know my mother plays at least twice a week. And then each club has its competition, and then there's the national competition. And it goes international competition, so -- >> Stephen Winick: Wow. >> Andréa Bidart: So yeah. >> Cathy Petrissans: It's pretty organized. >> Andréa Bidart: It is pretty organized. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah, wow. So in terms of song, I mean you guys ended up as -- with song as sort of your primary expression of your -- >> Cathy Petrissans: Right. >> Stephen Winick: Basque identity. So is that an important part of Basque life in California as well? >> Begoña Echeverria: Sure. I mean I think that one of the main things the Basque movement has brought I think was the love of song. And there's an old -- I think it's a French saying that "The Basques are the people who sing". I've heard that before. And Basques usually do know how to sing, and it's a tradition in the Basque-American communities. This is true both in the California world where we're used to seeing, you know, Basque people. But even in Idaho or other places, where after dinner -- after any meal really, there's those long tables and people will sit around and sing songs. So All of us grew up I think hearing Basque song around the table at Basque restaurants or picnics or in our homes -- >> Cathy Petrissans: Our fathers sing together. >> Begoña Echeverria: Yeah, all of our fathers sing. >> Cathy Petrissans: Yeah. Yeah, so -- >> Andréa Bidart: But also song in church. >> Begoña Echeverria: Yeah. Mm-hm. >> Andréa Bidart: Basques are usually Catholic, and so we all grew up singing the church songs. And then song comes into -- there's a Basque camp for children, and they learn all the different things. And Noka as a group has gone to Udaleku and taught songs that would teach the language to the children. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> Andréa Bidart: Through song. >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Cathy Petrissans: And in those masses, when people pass away, they call on NOKA to do those Basque songs. >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Cathy Petrissans: You know, two of us can do it, because Cathy's in Pennsylvania, or any form of us we can kind of help out. >> Andréa Bidart: But we've sung at many -- >> Cathy Petrissans: In that fashion too. >> Andréa Bidart: Many funerals. >> Cathy Petrissans: Right. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> Cathy Petrissans: Weddings too [laughs]. >> Begoña Echeverria: Yes, every now and again. >> Andréa Bidart: Some baptisms. >> Stephen Winick: So -- sure, so are there a lot of traditional Basque songs in oral tradition in California would you say? Or -- ? >> Begoña Echeverria: I would say most of them are. I mean I think that we're one of the few groups -- we might be the only group in California, actually, that is writing our own music -- our own songs, and trying to find songs that are less traditional. So the songs -- we love those songs, or if we have -- our CD with Mikel is our third CD, but the first two we did -- the first one was really -- >> Cathy Petrissans: All traditional songs. >> Begoña Echeverria: Here are songs we heard up, you know -- >> Cathy Petrissans: Yeah. >> Begoña Echeverria: -- singing and learning, and so they're -- and so those songs are really the -- kind of the -- and I think it's pretty typical of immigrant communities, but you know, missing the homeland. And seeing their mother and seeing their sweetheart, and wanting a sweetheart, and those kind of heartbreaking songs. And we love those. So a lot of ballads. So I would say the norm is to -- you know, people have books where they memorize them to sing those songs. And we're trying to do a little bit -- we do that too, but we're trying to kind of bring into more public view the kind of songs that people don't generally sing. >> Stephen Winick: And when you say that, what kind of songs would that be? >> Begoña Echeverria: Well, I would say that there are a few songs that I personally grew up hearing that were where the women or girls were protagonists. I mean they're sort of the object of -- like maybe a man want to marry them, or they miss them, or the girls -- that someone's telling them what to do, but they don't have much say. And -- but we've really, in the archives, have found a lot of songs that are -- like in today's concert -- that are -- and very often bad things are happening to them. But women's stories; a woman struggling. Or a woman who's a saint. Or a woman who has to go someplace to, you know, find work and then gets in trouble. Or two sisters fighting. And we don't have, you know, the bickering over a boy. So we're trying to really find -- uncover and write songs that about sort of putting women more in the forefront and not just in the secondary or supporting roles, and sort of what men want them to be. But kind of having their own opinions about what they want to do or be. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. Great, that's really, you know, I think a really interesting approach to song -- >> Begoña Echeverria: Mm-hm. >> Stephen Winick: Especially from a group that got its start doing traditional songs -- >> Begoña Echeverria: Right. >> Stephen Winick: Because of that -- you know, the sort of gender roles. >> Begoña Echeverria: And then we also see our fathers, I mean they -- Cathy, her mother sings about -- >> Cathy Petrissans: Right. >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Begoña Echeverria: We learned it from our fathers and grandfathers -- >> Cathy Petrissans: And my grandfather would sing around the table all the time, so for -- I think it was a very positive thing is what it was to be Basque; to sing songs around the table. >> Stephen Winick: Right. And so explain the connection of that focus on women's stories with the -- the name, NOKA. >> Begoña Echeverria: Well, if you insist [laughs]. So NOKA is the name of our group, and we named ourselves after a pronoun. Because in Basque there is no he or she or "la" or "elle". The only place where there's gender marking is in the familiar form. And there's one form of how we're speaking to Mikel, called "Toka" [phonetic]. Or if I'm speaking to Cathy or Andrea, it's called "Noka". So it's to one female addressee or a girl or a woman. And it really marks a relationship of a familiarity or solidarity. But as you've seen in the concert what ends up happening is it's used not for sort of positive or friendship purposes, but for telling a girl what to do, or to address to women who are not necessarily looked well upon. So we thought that was really interesting, and then that it's dying. So it's equivalent to the male form, Toka, but it's not used in nearly sort of the context. And the Toka form; the male form, has these positive association with this rugged, you know [foreign language spoken], the eye candy, right? Like they're really sexy and masculine, and you know. Or they're poets or they're athletes, or they're in the public domain doing great things. And the Noka form is not used that way. So we thought, well we should sing those songs to kind of show the richness of the form. And then also we've been writing songs and using them in ways that are more just familiar, and more pedestrian puroposes to show what it should be. And it used to be used for everything. Because it was the only way to speak to a single addressee; a singular addressee. So we've been trying to expand the range of uses that we sing in song. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. I notice you've mentioned a couple of times finding songs in the archive -- >> Begoña Echeverria: Yes. >> Stephen Winick: Or bringing songs out of the archive. So where do you locate the archive? Where -- ? >> Begoña Echeverria: They're in my house [background laughter] -- so now they're in my house. So I -- I'm a sociologist of language, and I did research for my dissertation on efforts to revitalize the language in San Sabastian, Gipuzkoa. And when I was doing that research, I noticed that this is when I first learned about the Noka/Toka difference. And people didn't have a different -- didn't have a good answer to when I would ask -- well why don't people, because to me like, the "tu" form in Spanish is like -- >> Stephen Winick: Yeah [laughs]. >> Begoña Echeverria: Everybody uses it. So I didn't understand why it wasn't used in the same way as the male form. And no one had an answer. "Oh no, that's just the way it is; it's always been that way." And I'm, "Okay." So I started looking in the archives to see, well how has it been used? And there's sort of three main archival -- there's three main genres I guess. There's a lot of song. There's a lot of folklore, and then there's Biblical materials. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> Begoña Echeverria: So I've looked at all of that. And interestingly enough, a lot of the best materials are in the Bodleian Library in Oxford -- which I love that place so much. So a lot of it's there. Some of them are in archives in the Basque country. And then some of them are also in the Center for Basque Studies at University of Nevada, Reno. So I've spent a lot of time in the archives very happily, and I've copied the songs or I buy the books. And so most of what we need for singers is all in my house now [laughs]. So I have copies somewhere in my house. >> Stephen Winick: That's great. So we love to hear about people using the archives here at the Library of Congress, as you well know -- >> Begoña Echeverria: Yes, we do -- and I must say, I also spend time in the Alan Lomax collection, looking at the Basque songs, and he knows -- of him too. So I actually have looked at those -- the Basque sources in the Library of Congress as well. >> Stephen Winick: Right. That's great -- >> Begoña Echeverria: Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: -- and just those -- that's a collection that's in the division where I work -- >> Begoña Echeverria: Yeah, we love it. Yeah, it's great. >> Stephen Winick: The American Folklore Center -- >> Begoña Echeverria: Yeah. Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: Where Alan Lomax went to the Basque country -- >> Begoña Echeverria: Yeah. Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: And collected a lot of songs and music. >> Begoña Echeverria: Yeah. Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: Great. Well thanks for accessing that kind of gem, because we love it. >> Begoña Echeverria: Oh, I loved it. Yeah. And he also spent some time in Baztan, which is where my -- the valley where my family's from. So he spent time at Elizondo. And one of his informants was Mariano Izeta. >> Mikel Markez: Right. >> Begoña Echeverria: And he was a jeweler on the side [laughs]. He was this -- you know, I mean he wrote a dictionary and he was sort of a folklorist. And so some of the songs that are on that collection from the 50s, he's like - he's like 35 and he died when he was I don't know, 85 or something. So it was - I knew him as an older man. >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Begoña Echeverria: So it was like, hey, this is Mariano Izeta, singing on this collection! It's really great. >> Stephen Winick: Wonderful. Well we always love to hear stories like that, so thanks. >> Begoña Echeverria: Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: Another thing that I noticed during the concert was that you set some Basque lyrics to contemporary songwriter's music -- >> Begoña Echeverria: Mm-hm. Mm-hm. >> Stephen Winick: Including Johnny Cash and John Prime. >> Begoña Echeverria: Mm-hm. >> Stephen Winick: So how did you come to do that? >> Andréa Bidart: I guess that was mostly my idea and they were willing to -- >> Begoña Echeverria: It was mostly her idea [laughs]. >> Andréa Bidart: Go along with it. I mean as Begona said earlier, we started off with traditional tunes, and then we took other Basque tunes and then either put them in Noka, or took them out of the Archives. And then most recently we've been thinking more about being Basque-American. And so taking the words in Noka and then setting them to American tunes. I think particularly be of interest to the Basque -- you know, in the Basque region who, I think, really like American music. >> Cathy Petrissans: It's different. Nobody's doing it [laughs]. >> Andréa Bidart: But that's not what they're doing over there, so it's a way to Basque-American. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. And when you write your own songs, do you write the words and the music primarily? >> Begoña Echeverria: I don't know anything about music [laughs], I don't read music or anything. So I go with the words. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> Begoña Echeverria: So when I write the lyrics -- so the first song, the one about the coffee milk? I mean that was a tune that I loved for so long. And it was before I even knew Cathy's uncle had written it. And I remember I was on a plane and the tune kept coming back to me. And I -- if I don't know the meter, my favorite meter seems to be 8, 10 -- 8,6. So I just started out -- the words just started coming and I sort of went with it. So for me to write the lyrics, I almost always have a tune in mind, and then sometimes we use that tune or we don't; we change it up. And then there was only a couple times when I've just written the words without any music at all. And then in a couple cases, Cathy found a tune that kind of went with it and she arranged the words. But that's sort of been my process; I don't know. >> Andréa Bidart: And then with Mikel Markez -- >> Begoña Echeverria: Yeah. >> Andréa Bidart: Our collaboration with him, that's when he was writing the tune and Begona's words -- >> Stephen Winick: I see. >> Andréa Bidart: And that would be, for instance, [Basque language spoken] >> Cathy Petrissans: Because he can write a song in like 15 minutes [laughs]. >> Andréa Bidart: Yeah, we spent that -- >> Begoña Echeverria: Yeah, one of them was 20 minutes I think I sent him the words, and then he had a tune in 20 minutes. It was a little -- a little bit gross [background laughter]. Because I don't think he has any musical training either, so he just sort of comes up with it. >> Andréa Bidart: But that was two summers ago that he came -- >> Begoña Echeverria: Yeah. >> Mikel Markez: Right. >> Andréa Bidart: And spent time with us, and that -- and we recorded, and we're just working together. And he'd come out with -- we'd show him the words, and he would come out with a tune or vice-versa. >> Cathy Petrissans: [Basque language spoken] is mostly ours -- >> Begoña Echeverria: That's true. That's true -- >> Cathy Petrissans: Wouldn't you say? >> Begoña Echeverria: That's true. >> Cathy Petrissans: The words and a little bit -- a twist of -- >> Andréa Bidart: Yeah, a twist on the traditional, but -- and -- or sometimes we just change the rhythm up to make it-- like the Santa Agata. >> Cathy Petrissans: Mm-hm. >> Andréa Bidart: That melody existed, but we just gave it a, you know, "Mack the Knife" kind of feel to it. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> Andréa Bidart: And really changed the whole feeling of that song. >> Stephen Winick: Right. And well, explain that song. Explain the sort of idea of that song. >> Begoña Echeverria: Well, I mean I think Cathy can speak more to the musical side of it, but I -- it's another -- song I had at my house [laughs] in a book, and I -- I had heard, and I don't know that much about it, and maybe you can ask him later-- in French, maybe he knows, but it's just she's a Sicilian saint, and she -- a Roman governor wanted her to be his concubine, and she refused. And he wanted her -- and I think he put her in a brothel, to like, "Okay" -- and she still refused. And then she -- he put her in a prison and she -- and then said, "Give up your Christian faith" and she refused. So then he actually had her martyred as if she were a prostitute. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> Begoña Echeverria: So the martyrdom is really brutal. And so I don't know why she is a patron saint of some small towns in the Basque country, I don't know why. >> Cathy Petrissans: Yeah, Mikel will probably know that. >> Begoña Echeverria: but there -- Biscay and I think it's mostly Biscay. And I know that because in Boise, a lot of the -- most -- that community mostly went to -- it's from Biscay. So they do this -- sort of on her feast day, they do this -- they sing a version of her story that's very sanitized -- >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> Cathy Petrissans: In those communities. But it was new to us. And so in -- there's many versions of that song. And the -- and most of them don't tell the story, they just say, "She was really awesome. She was really faithful. Go Agatha." And -- but this song is like -- this is what happened to her. This is what happened to her, and we thought, you know, we've had different responses to that song, but you're going to remember the story [laughs]. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. >> Begoña Echeverria: Even if you hate it. You're going to -- yeah. >> Andréa Bidart: But interesting to me too, children sing that song. It's sort of like a trick-or-treat kind of a thing. They go in the streets, right? And they bang their canes. And they're asking for candy. And it's very -- >> Cathy Petrissans: He's going to know about Saint Agatha; ask him. >> Stephen Winick: Saint Agatha? >> Andréa Bidart: You know, straight and solid. >> Cathy Petrissans: Yeah. He'll know. >> Begoña Echeverria: We don't know why it was. >> Andréa Bidart: And so because it was in Noka, we tried to think hard how can we reinterpret this song, and that's when the whole kind of jazzy feeling came from it. >> Stephen Winick: Mikel, parlez un peu de Sainte Agata? [Mikel, speak a little about St. Agatha] >> Mikel Markez: Oui. [Yes.] >>Mikel Markez: C'est un tradition, Sainte Agathe, comme elles ont dit, surtout a Bizkaia, c'est plus, mais dans tout le pays Basque. Et la tradition c'est d'aller le nuit avant Sainte Agathe, le jour de Sainte Agathe, et aller dans les maisons qui sont dans le village et dans les montagnes aussi, avec des bois... >> Cathy Petrissans: Yeah, wood -- wood sticks. >> Begoña Echeverria: A cane -- canes. >>Mikel Markez: Et tout le monde va a une maison et chante les verses que nous avons chantés aujourd'hui. Et c'est pour demander des oeufs ou un petit peu de pain, ou un peu de lait. Ou quelque chose. Et ils chantent: [Singing in Basque Language] >>Mikel Markez: Et c'est un rythme archaïque, avec les.... Et tout le monde est là. Il y a des enfants, des vieux, et tout le monde va. C'est un tradition millénaire, je pense. >> Stephen Winick: Merci, [laughs] all right. >> Begoña Echeverria: And we -- that's not the version that we sing [laughs]. >> Stephen Winick: Right, but still, you know very interesting. >> Begoña Echeverria: We don't say give us candy [laughs]. That's good. >> Stephen Winick: So I guess we didn't talk about how you're -- how the three of you started singing together as a group, like as a performance group. >> Cathy Petrissans: We started in 1997 really, singing in English. We recorded a song, "The Rose" in English. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> Cathy Petrissans: And after that we decided, well, that turned out pretty well, why don't we sing in Basque? We had sung together in a group called [Basque language spoken], a group of women in Chino before. But that's really what made us, just the three of us, separate and -- we were first the American Basque Chicks for a little -- >> Begoña Echeverria: Just for a little bit. >> Cathy Petrissans: ABC, and then Noka came about. >> Stephen Winick: Excellent. >> Cathy Petrissans: So it's really almost 20 years ago that we started. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. And did you seek a connection with the kind of the Basque music scene? Because I know there's a lot of music over in the Basque country. >> Cathy Petrissans: Mm-hm. >> Stephen Winick: So did you start travelling there to see any of that? >> Cathy Petrissans: Well we've all -- >> Stephen Winick: See any of that? >> Cathy Petrissans: We've always sort of travelled there, I mean -- >> Andréa Bidart: But as a group that took us some time. >> Cathy Petrissans: Really not yearly, but -- yeah, it took us some time to do that. Our first CDs we really did on our own, without really collaborating with any musicians from over there. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> Cathy Petrissans: I would say, the first two CDs. >> Begoña Echeverria: Yeah, and I think that that first CD was songs that we knew, and then -- so we knew the songs, and then we -- I think -- was that the one your family was involved in? The musicians-- >> Andréa Bidart: Yeah, mostly yeah. Because we didn't know anyone, so -- >> Begoña Echeverria: But it was sort of kind -- we didn't really change much up on that one. We just sort of, "This is kind of how we know them." And then we sang them that way. And then the second CD was more, "Okay, we're going to sing only songs in Noka", and those were -- and some of those were a little bit different. But it's the first -- this CD with Mikel is the first time that we have a collaboration from the very beginning with a Basque-American, and Basque musician. And we thought kind of deliberately together about both the theme of the song, and then you know, what kind of came easily, musically in the arrangement. And we kind of went with those that kind of came to all of us that we liked. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. And how did you start collaborating with Mikel? >> Cathy Petrissans: Well actually, well he came to Chino, and I -- you know, four years ago [foreign language spoken]? >> Mikel Markez: Four years, yeah. >> Cathy Petrissans: And I didn't see him over there; Begona had met him. >> Begoña Echeverria: Yeah. >> Cathy Petrissans: And then I met him separately in the Basque Country three years ago, and we started talking. And then he had recorded his last CD that he asked me to be a collaborator on, so I did that. And I just saw it was really easy to work with him, so then I said, "Hey, we should do something with Noka." So that's really how it started. >> Stephen Winick: Great. >> Cathy Petrissans: So I've been working with him on his projects. >> Stephen Winick: Great. And another aspect in the performance that you gave us today was the projection screen with some of the lyrics and some explanations of some of the songs. How did it come to your minds to do that -- to add that? >> Begoña Echeverria: Well we actually initially start off doing this kind of a format. Because we primarily -- we started off primarily performing to American audiences; sometimes Basque-American, but sometimes university audiences. And so no one understands the language. And so from the beginning, we sort of -- we've had the lyrics and then the translation. And then we try to keep the images interesting [laughs]. And so then -- so this is -- what we did today is actually what we -- until recently we would do pretty much all the time, and sort of more lecture performances. And often when we do that, I have actually many more slides about the grammar which I didn't show today, to kind of talk about [background laughter] -- because people usually don't know anything -- they don't know where the Basque country is. They don't know where we -- I mean sometimes they do, but in university settings. So we'll have, you know, here's our Basque Country. Here's our map. And here's, you know, the language and all that. And so from the very beginning, it's sort of been not only to sing, but also to educate the public about the Basque country; about the Basque language. And in particular about Noka. Because even native speakers over there often won't know -- they won't even know what it is really. So I think we've been more deliberate about trying to -- when we learn something that is a surprise, to be sure and talk about that in the talk. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. And so this year is kind of special -- >> Begoña Echeverria: Mm-hm. >> Stephen Winick: Because the Basque country's being featured at the Smithsonian Folklife Festival. So what's that experience been like for you [laughs]? >> Andréa Bidart: It's been wonderful. And one thing I was hoping that would come out of it would be collaborating with other cultures. And we've had that opportunity because we're part of the Basque program, but we're also part of the Sounds of California program. >> Stephen Winick: Sure. >> Andréa Bidart: So we've already had a wonderful experience with the Japanese group -- >> Cathy Petrissans: Japanese, yeah, from Los Angeles. >> Andréa Bidart: And we had a panel with them. And we decided collectively to teach them a Basque song. And then they taught us a Japanese song. And we were able to perform those together, and for me, those kinds of things are a highlight. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> Begoña Echeverria: Yeah. And we have a -- I think two days or three days we have another session at the -- Sounds of California in the studio with a -- I think they call themselves the Armenian Public Radio. >> Stephen Winick: Okay. >> Begoña Echeverria: So it's like [laughs], okay, so we -- and you know, what's interesting to us is that often they're really close to us, and we don't know about each other. So it's sort of fun to make -- it's been fun making those kinds of connections. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> Cathy Petrissans: And just how many people in such a short amount of time are learning about Basque in a positive way. Because you know, sometimes like, "Oh Basque" you know, with the political problems and its -- >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Cathy Petrissans: This is really what Basques are about too, and just sharing that with everybody has been great. >> Stephen Winick: Actually that's an interesting question too, because a lot of Americans who only know one thing about Basque people might know about the separatist movement in Spain and in France. So how does that affect the sort of scene, or the way Basque-Americans approach, and -- >> Cathy Petrissans: I don't know, for me I feel like we're not really part of that at all. I mean I've never really felt that that's affected what we do, or how we say things. >> Begoña Echeverria: And I think that that's -- I would agree with that. I think that's primarily because the communities that we're from, they were on the -- mostly all from the French side, on [inaudible]. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> Begoña Echeverria: And they came because they came from big families and the oldest child got the house -- >> Stephen Winick: Yeah [laughs]. >> Begoña Echeverria: And the rest had to fend for themselves. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. >> Begoña Echeverria: So they didn't come to the west. They didn't come really -- they came for economic reasons, like other immigrants; they didn't come for political reasons, so -- and what has happened in Nevada and California, and in -- I'm forgetting a state. >> Stephen Winick: Idaho? >> Begoña Echeverria: No, Idaho's not -- but for Nevada and California, it's been mostly immigrants from the northern side, from the French side -- >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> Begoña Echeverria: And really close to the French border on Spanish like my family. And they -- their Lingua Franca became Basque [laughs]. Because they either came to be French and Basque -- >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Begoña Echeverria: Or Spanish and Basque, but not English, and not the other language. And so what's been interesting is in a lot of places, they -- in some cases I think some of the -- even the immigrants spoke more Basque once they got here than they had at home. Because when they were at home there weren't schools in their language, or they had -- they were more used to speaking French or Spanish. But when they got here, the language they had in common was Basque. Which is very interesting. >> Stephen Winick: That is very interesting, yeah. >> Begoña Echeverria: Yeah. >> Cathy Petrissans: I've known people to actually learn Basque in Chino. >> Begoña Echeverria: Yeah. >> Cathy Petrissans: And from the Spanish side they weren't able to speak Basque -- >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> Cathy Petrissans: During the time of Franco. >> Begoña Echeverria: Yeah. >> Cathy Petrissans: And they came to California and they learned it, so it's [laughs]. >> Stephen Winick: That's great [laughs]. >> Cathy Petrissans: There are cases like that. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah. So how is the language culture of Basque doing, both in California and back in the home country? >> Begoña Echeverria: Well, I mean it's -- there have been efforts on -- mostly on -- in three of the four provinces on the Spanish side, and Mikel can speak to that -- >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. Sure. >> Begoña Echeverria: Since 1982 I think, where -- after Franco died [laughs] -- >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Begoña Echeverria: And Democracy came back. So had to wait a long time for that to happen. So even under Franco's regime, there were clandestine Basque schools. And then once he died in 1975 -- after a very long time -- and Democracy returned, there -- some communities were allowed to use their language in the schools -- in public -- for free, for public schools. So that's helped a lot in parts of the Basque country, because you know, for the first time -- for first time in a long time, people could speak it publicly and there was support for that. So if you wanted to send your child to a Basque school for free, you could do that from the age three on. So there's a lot more people who can speak Basque in those regions than previously, so I think -- I've heard anywhere between -- like the total number of between 750,000 to a million people worldwide. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> Begoña Echeverria: So that sounds pretty good. And it's better than it was, but the problem is, you know, we're not out of the woods yet, because most people who speak Basque speak something else most of the time. >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Begoña Echeverria: They speak Spanish or -- mostly Spanish or French. It's not taught so much in the homes anymore. The people are learning it at school. And we know how that is to learn a language at school, you're like, eh, what is this for? >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> Begoña Echeverria: And so there's still a lot of issues with the language in terms of -- I mean it's still -- it's better institutionally than it was, but it's still not as strong as Spanish and French in terms of where it is located institutionally. So -- so there's that. And in the -- in Basque-America, I mean I think we're typical of other immigrant communities where, you know, maybe I would say, perhaps of Cathy and our generation -- the daughters and sons of immigrants, maybe 1 in 3 learned Basque? >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> Begoña Echeverria: You know, which is -- you know, so I'm one of those three. >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Begoña Echeverria: But that was just because who my parents were. But by the second generation, it's -- very, very few people know it. Because by that point -- so if it's people of my generation, English is still better. And then, you know, even if both speak Basque and English, English is their language together. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> Begoña Echeverria: Just like in the -- so that's -- their normal language is English, and then their language of education and profession is English. And it's -- there aren't schools, so it's possible, but it's difficult. I think people have a lot of affection for the language, and they like to sing along to words that they may not even know. But there's not been institutional support that you would have in some other languages I think. >> Stephen Winick: So I guess you guys have a mission [laughs]. >> Begoña Echeverria: We do. >> Andréa Bidart: We do. >> Cathy Petrissans: Got work to do. >> Stephen Winick: That's great. >> Begoña Echeverria: We do -- and a lot of what we've been working on too is just -- just I think we have to give ourselves a break. You know, the best way to be a Basque speaker in California is to be born to my parents [laughs]. Because it has nothing to do with me [laughs] it was a completely normal thing for them to do. So I think often people get blamed for not passing on a language -- >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Begoña Echeverria: Even though there were good reasons for it. They were told not to, or it was illegal or dangerous, or both. And I think -- and then sometimes later on people are like, "Oh why didn't you teach me this language?" "Well, because at the time, there were good reasons why we didn't teach you. We thought you were doing -- we were doing the right thing." So -- and I think that sometimes people will give people a hard time for not having made -- and often women -- like the mother, they're like, "Well you should've done this mom." [Background laughter] and it's not -- you know, it's not very nice. >> Stephen Winick: Yeah, leave aside the shame and blame, and just -- >> Begoña Echeverria: Exactly. "Oh yeah, so I should have anticipated 30 years ago -- " >> Stephen Winick: And just -- just learn it. Yeah [laughs]. >> Begoña Echeverria: That you would've wanted to speak this language, thanks. >> Cathy Petrissans: Well, my bad [laughs]. >> Begoña Echeverria: Yeah, sorry [laughs]. >> Cathy Petrissans: Yeah, maybe next time. >> Stephen Winick: Well, I think song and music is a great way into any language culture. >> Begoña Echeverria: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: So I think you guys are doing the right thing. >> Begoña Echeverria: Well hopefully. We like it anyway. Yeah. >> Stephen Winick: Well I'm going to ask Mikel a few questions, and because of the language issue, I'm going to ask those in French, and I'll provide a translation of course for our video. So -- >> Stephen Winick: Parlons un peu des traditions populaires des Basques dans le pays Basque lui-même. Est-ce-qu'il y a beaucoup de gens qui jouent la musique traditionelle? >> Mikel Markez: Oui, il y a. Nous avons eu beaucoup de gens comme...Alan Lomax, no? Qui a pris des vieux chansons. Et nous étions aux années 60, un groupe très intéressant...parce que, dans la partie Espagnole, il y avait un dictatuer, comme vous a dit Begoña, et la langage était interdit. Et dans les 60, il est un peu de... [Basque language spoken] >> Begoña Echeverria: Yeah research -- >> Cathy Petrissans: Research. >> Mikel Markez: Yes. >> Mikel Markez: Il y avait un groupe qui s'appelle "Ez dok amairu." Ils sont des chanteurs, qui ont fait des nouvelles chansons, qui ont fait des expérimentations, mais qui ont pris des vielles chansons traditionelles, et des romans vieux, et qui les ont chantées et ont popularisé ces chansons. Et tout le monde qui nous sommes venus apres, tous les chanteurs, tous les gens culturels, nous avons apris que c'est très intéressant ce que des autres ont fait avant, pour faire nous qui a de raiz, avec la terre. C'est pour ça je pense que nous avons eu un bon école avec ce groupe qui est notre premier réference culturel grand après, un peu de le dictateur. Et je pense que c'est pour ça que la culture traditionelle a beaucoup de force au Pays Basque. Mais il y a une chose que je veux dire de les chansons vielles et la culture populaire ici dans les États-Unis. C'est vrai que nous avons fait un travail, et que des autres ont fait un travail, pour les chansons traditionelles. Mais c'est vrai aussi que, comme la culture au pays Basque est vivant, il y a des nouveaux chansons, il y a des nouveaux verses, il y a des nouveaux...des nouveaux influences du monde. Et les choses vieux, quelque fois, ils sont... [mot Basque] >> Andréa Bidart: Stabilized. >> Begoña Echeverria: Fossilized. >> Mikel Markez: [Basque word.] >> Begoña Echeverria: Fossilized I think is what he means; fossilized. >> Stephen Winick: Je comprends, oui. >> Mikel Markez: Et ici, nous pouvons écouter quelques chansons que nous ne connaissons pas. >> Stephen Winick: Right. >> Mikel Markez: Nous sommes, toute la vie, apprendre des chansons. Et nous pensons que nous savions beaucoup de chansons populaires. Mais c'est vrai que nous venons a Chino, a Boise, et il y a un vieux qui chante une chanson que, oop! Je connais pas! Et c'est parce-que, pour nous, c'est past autant important, il y a des choses nouvelles. Mais ici, c'est gardé! >> Cathy Petrissans: That's all we have, so [laughs] -- >> Mikel Markez: Dans les lieux qui la culture Basque et pas fort, nous pouvons rencontrer quelques petits merveilles! >> Stephen Winick: Oui, c'est intéressant! >> Mikel Markez: Oui, Oui, Oui, >> Stephen Winick: Alors, vous composez des chansons aussi en Basque. Est-ce-que vous utilisez les vers traditionelles? >> Mikel Markez: Oui...je dirais que, moi, j'ai trois chemins qui sont ensembles. D'une fois, je fais des chansons, moi, des paroles et des musiques. D'autre fois, je fais des musiques pour des paroles qui ont fait d'autres poètes ou d'autres écrivains. Et la troisieme, c'est la chanson populaire. Tous les disques, je pense, j'ai chanté une ou deux chansons populaires qui nous sont venues par la tradition orale. >> Stephen Winick: Okay. Du temps qui n'avait pas la possibilite d'enregistrer. >> Stephen Winick: Okay. >> Stephen Winick: Et de quels sujets écrivez-vous dans vos chansons? >> Mikel Markez: Bon, J'écris de tous les choses qui intéressent à l'humain... à l'humanité: La mort, l'amour, le sexe, la politique...tous les choses...les rélations...la vie! >> Stephen Winick: Oui. >> Mikel Markez: Le vent...tout! >> Stephen Winick: Et vous etes guitariste, aussi. >> Mikel Markez: Oui, je joue la guitare, je joue un peu l'accordéon traditionnel Basque, trikitixa, il s'appelle >> Stephen Winick: Trikitixa. C'est l'accordéon diatonique? >> Mikel Markez: L'accordéon diatonique, oui. L'accordéon diatonique traditionnel Basque. >> Stephen Winick: Et la guitare, est-ce-que c'est assez nouvelle dans la musique Basque? >> Mikel Markez: Nous avons des évidences qu'il y avait...bon, il y a beaucoup d'années, chanteurs traditionnels avec la guitare... >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> Mikel Markez: ...et aussi le violon... >> Stephen Winick: Oui. >> Mikel Markez: ...qui chantaient des vers vieux, des vers...qui content des histoires comme, qu'il y a une personne qui a tué son pere, et après il a été condamné à mort. Ils content des histoires, et il y avait des groupes qui vont de village en village, en chantant l'histoire des personnes, ou les histoires de la guerre, ou les histoires du roi qui est allé, et qu'ils on dit a son femme qu'il était mort, mais il retourne, et il se déguise >> Stephen Winick: Right [laughs]. >> Mikel Markez: Il y a beaucoup d'histoires qui sont dans tous les traditions de l'Europe, ou du monde, non? C'est les memes histoires, en chaque lieu, avec ces petits characterizations... >> Stephen Winick: Des petits différences. >> Mikel Markez: Des petits différences, oui. >> Stephen Winick: Okay. >> Stephen Winick: Il y a des autres cultures, disons minoritaires, en France et en Espagne. Je veux dire, par example, les Occitanes, les Catalans. Je sais que ce sont des langues Romanes, et que la langue Basque n'est pas...Basque n'a aucun rélation à ces langages, mais, est-ce-qu'il y a de collaborations entre ces cultures? >> Mikel Markez: Oui, oui, oui. Pour le pays Basque, où il etait tout le temps la langue Basque, et ils sont passés tous, les Romans, les Arabes, tout le monde est passé, et tout le monde il l'a laissé. Il y a beaucoup de mots, il y a beaucoup, beaucoup, beaucoup de mots...notre langage, c'est pre-Indoeuropéene. C'est avant tous les langues Latines et tous les langues Germaniques. Il n'y a...en Europe il n'y a pas un langage qui est plus ancien que le Basque. Mais les Basques ont aussi beaucoup, beaucoup, beaucoup de paroles, et des expressions, surtout des langages Latins. >> Stephen Winick: Oui, bien sur. >> Mikel Markez: C'est [Basque word]. >> Stephen Winick: Okay. >> Mikel Markez: Mélangé! Mélangé! >> Stephen Winick: Mélangé, oui, Merci! Parlez un peu de l'expérience du Smithsonian Folklife Festival. >> Mikel Markez: C'est tres intéressant, parce-que, comme Cathy a dit, nous avons le possibilité de montrer ce que nous faisons, évidemment, mais nous avons le possibilité d'apprendre des autres cultures, parce-que nous sommes ici avec Sounds of California, aussi, et avec la culture américain. Pour nous, c'est tres riche, c'est impressionant. >> Stephen Winick: Okay. Merci [background laughter]. So if there's -- are there any other things that we didn't address that any of you want to say? [ Basque Language Spoken ] >> Begoña Echeverria: So we have a -- [ Basque Language Spoken ] The -- I know that -- so in addition to the Alan Lomax collection, there was a collection called songs -- "Folk Songs of France". >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> That I remember hearing when I was in the archives, and I was asked to translate those songs for the Smithsonian blog. And it just so happens that there is a song that is archived here, that is sung by -- and is a group -- an all-male group in the French side in the 40s, that we sang in our first CD, the three of us. And it was only after we recorded it, that we realized that there's a lot of Noka in the song. It's a song from -- [ Basque Language Spoken ] I know he was like -- [ Basque Language Spoken ] Yeah, so he was -- he was -- I'm not sure of the exact date of this song, but he was -- [Basque language spoken in background] -- 1890s, so -- [ Basque Language Spoken ] So -- and yeah, and that's where your family -- no? [ Basque Language Spoken ] So we think he's from the town of what? [ Basque Language Spoken ] From the province of Lapurdi, one of the French Basque -- yeah. So he was very prolific. And this song that he wrote, it's -- uses a lot of Noka. And it's called, "The Party for Women", and it seems like just a fun song. These four women, they're playing cards -- Cathy mentioned cards in the shade, and they're gambling. And then they drink a little bit too much, so they're -- I don't play Mouche, but apparently it's a card game that -- where they pass signs. >> Stephen Winick: Mm-hm. >> Begoña Echeverria: And that they're drinking so much that they not -- they're passing -- they're not understanding each other's signs. So it seems like a fun -- like they're just -- like they're having a really good time, just like men do. But at the very end of the song it turns out that they're witches [laughs]. >> Stephen Winick: Wow. >> Begoña Echeverria: So we would like to -- we're working on a reworking of the song that is sort of a spin on that, which is a swing version of the song. [ Basque Language Spoken ] >> Andréa Bidart: Just the note. >> Cathy Petrissans: Just the note [Basque language spoken in background]. >> Begoña Echeverria: just the note. >> Cathy Petrissans: Just to find a note. >> Begoña Echeverria: Just to find a note. >> Andréa Bidart: What do you think it is? >> Stephen Winick: Just to get a note. >> Begoña Echeverria: I think it's [singing]. >> Cathy Petrissans: Yeah. >> Andréa Bidart: Yeah. >> Begoña Echeverria: Is that right? So if we screw up, because it's the first time we've sung that public, we want to start again, so -- [ Basque Language Spoken ] >> Begoña Echeverria: Hold on. I'll move it a little bit like that. Is that okay Cathy? >> Cathy Petrissans: Uh-huh. >> Andréa Bidart: Okay. >> Begoña Echeverria: So we're going to sing -- how -- wait, how many verses did we decide, all of it? >> Cathy Petrissans: All of it. >> Begoña Echeverria: So we're going to sing four verses, sort of a swing version. Let's see if you like it. >> Stephen Winick: Okay. >> Begoña Echeverria: Here we go. [ Singing in Basque Language ] >> Stephen Winick: Wow. That was great. Thank you so much. >> Cathy Petrissans: So the traditional is slower; a little different [laughs]. >> Stephen Winick: Well, I can't think of a better way to end a oral history than that. [ Basque Language Spoken ] >> Cathy Petrissans: It's oral and it's history [laughs]. >> Mikel Markez: Basque, English -- >> Begoña Echeverria: Swing -- >> Mikel Markez: American. >> Andréa Bidart: Basque-American. >> Begoña Echeverria: Basque-American swing. All mixed together. >> Stephen Winick: Mélange. >> Mikel Markez: Mélange. >> Begoña Echeverria: Mélange. [ Basque Language Spoken and Laughter ] >> Stephen Winick: Well, thank you so much. >> Andréa Bidart: Thank you so much. >> Begoña Echeverria: Thank you for this opportunity. >> Narrator: This has been a presentation of the Library of Congress. Visit us at loc.gov.